Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-02-06 | 2015-02-08 → ↓
mircea_popescu: "Engineering complexity is a form of environmental pollution; perhaps even the worst form of all, because it may yet turn out to be the case that it can kill whole civilizations, not just individual people."
mircea_popescu: actually this is a perfectly good motto.
asciilifeform: wherewasthis?
asciilifeform remembers and lolz
assbot: Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOVgzJ )
mircea_popescu: i think you know him.
asciilifeform: believe or not, that thread -still- gets comments.
mircea_popescu: it's a pretty good point anyway.
asciilifeform: it's sorta the basic point of my site in a sentence.
mircea_popescu: " This of course adds the complexity to Clojure. The question is – does this acquired complexity worth it? I think it does. You gain a platform that is being poured thousands of man-hours every year into, you gain a GC that is being optimized for you, you gain the crossplatformity basically for free. You may call that opportunism but it works after all."
mircea_popescu: so if i fuck you, and you get pregnant, well... is it worth it ?
mircea_popescu: you get a baby for free
asciilifeform: phree gipht.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that you know... you gotta spend nine months eating for free
mircea_popescu: for two *
mircea_popescu: !up auscompgeek
asciilifeform: see also the original 'modest proposal' by swift.
asciilifeform: (is it still safe to assume that english speaking folks read it?)
asciilifeform: or did that also quietly walk away somewhere
assbot: SICP Distilled by thattommyhall — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOVG97 )
mircea_popescu: 723 backers £12,927 pledged of £3,500 goal 0 seconds to go
asciilifeform: paging herr bowdler!
asciilifeform: shakespeare distilled!
mircea_popescu: i guess it's almost done by now ? 6 months later ?
asciilifeform: i would have guessed that this is to be a 'cliff's notes' (american book series of ready-baked crib sheets for f-students) for sicp, but the latter is no longer (afaik) assigned in school
asciilifeform: so it can't be that
asciilifeform: it was nowhere near this figure, iirc, when comment appeared
mircea_popescu: could it be just 25k worth of fraud which really "isn't all that much" especially seeing how "everyone deserves a living wage" ?
asciilifeform: but why -that- fraud
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 202250 @ 0.00041106 = 83.1369 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: you ever walk behind couples wondering why she chose THAT loser ?
mircea_popescu: a) she didn't choose ; b) you don't actually see a "that" there.
asciilifeform: but still end up wondering in what circus the dwarf and giant met.
mircea_popescu: every one.
mircea_popescu: http://www.thattommyhall.com/ << blog, discontinued oct 9th
assbot: Everything is a Ghetto ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOWQS9 )
assbot: Looking for investment in my new startup "Facade". The model is simple, I take your money, do what I want for a year then you write it off
mircea_popescu: i guess ima write this up.
asciilifeform: the simplest possible chumpamatic.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169061 @ 0.00041227 = 69.6988 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117300 @ 0.00040498 = 47.5042 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up Guest70720
mircea_popescu: ello brenda.
Guest70720: hi now i can spam you like crazy for 30mins
Guest70720: i'm still trying to understand how this irc thing works. I've been lurking for quite a while but mostly on the blogs and forums
mircea_popescu: start reading the logs. linked in the topic.
Guest70720: they are endless, it's like reading the blockchain...
mircea_popescu: i think that's exactly what they're going for :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64100 @ 0.00041438 = 26.5618 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: when i was in college, i sorta made a fool of myself by giving a presentation about irc in some computer class; the presentation was supposed to be about some online business we were supposed to have come up with in a semester. In retrospect, it was exactly the right thing to present; kids growing up without awareness of irc is not helping them
mircea_popescu: you think ?
mircea_popescu: ironically, irc was a big thing when i was a teen. then pretty much forgot about it. only rediscovered it in a frustrated attempt to make sense of the ever mounting idiocy that bitcoin appeared to be.
mircea_popescu: it stuck.
danielpbarron: hah same here
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2014 18:09:12; mircea_popescu: "So above you see pankkake continue to smear the company ActiveMining (by calling it an investment scam, associating it with the known 'LabCoin scam', saying the CEO is facing jail and accusing me of being a scammer (!)) after Ken publicly refused to pay pankkake's blackmail money demand."
mircea_popescu: lol anyone remember active mining ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: heh i do. i actually made a buck on that scam.
assbot: Acclaimed sci-fi writer exposed as notorious Internet troll ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzMbgf )
mircea_popescu: aawww, troll was a ... woman ?! ethnic ?! NOT POSSIBRU
asciilifeform: this was big
asciilifeform: in its particular zoo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00040498 = 4.9813 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: hey anyone remembers these bits i quoted some weeks ago about this woman that did a kickstarter-like thing for her oyung adult novel
mircea_popescu: and ended up pulling it because "internet is mean" ?
asciilifeform: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/rcQaef4yYJyn/info/moia-masterskaia << ben_vulpes, BingoBoingo, others << my attempt at subtitling a certain memorable photo brag (not mine!). to enable the subs, click CC on bottom left hand corner (not the usual bottom right on youtube.)
assbot: Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzNvQa )
asciilifeform: ^ and also sound starts muted for some reason.
asciilifeform: found video subbing tool, and though that there was a list of things i was once going to sub, but for some reason found in my notes only this.
asciilifeform: *thought
asciilifeform points out that the pictured scene is not his house. he only wishes it were.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51350 @ 0.00040498 = 20.7957 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 03:18:43; mircea_popescu: sooooo... on account of bitcoind recompiled with new openssl, actual bitcoind compiled with actual openssl as of 2009 does not pass blocks in 2011
assbot: Proposed DERSIG BIP ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYpjHC )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 17232 @ 0.0009048 = 15.5915 BTC [-] {43}
mircea_popescu: signatures are a major vulnerability. mostly because nobody in fucking crypto except for us understands the actual constraints.
phillipsjk: A careful reading of the logs shows that mod6 was careful to use the pre-f revision of debian SSL.
asciilifeform: i pulled an openssl out of me arse
asciilifeform: but did warn!
asciilifeform: 'Until recently, OpenSSL's releases would accept various deviations from the DER standard and accept signatures as valid. When this changed in OpenSSL 1.0.0p and 1.0.1k, it made some nodes reject the chain.' - from the phoundation document linked above.
asciilifeform remembers this brouhaha, did not verify the claim personally
phillipsjk: "The requirement to have signatures that comply strictly with DER has been enforced as a relay policy by the reference client since v0.8.0, and very few transactions violating it are being added to the chain as of January 2015. In addition, every non-compliant signature can trivially be converted into a compliant one, so there is no loss of functionality by this requirement."
phillipsjk: I don't understand the complete implementation details, but how do they how to convert the signatures without messing with the merkle tree? Have a table of weird transactions?
phillipsjk: oops can't grammar
phillipsjk: .... but how do they plant to canvert the signatures without...
assbot: Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzP54H )
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk non compliant signatures are non compliant in trivial ways,
mircea_popescu: such as space padding
phillipsjk: It took me 3 tries to /msg assbot (mis-typed msg)
phillipsjk: Is the space padding ignored when computing the merckle hash then?
mircea_popescu: in this sense
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: VerifySignature ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYqab8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207900 @ 0.00041561 = 86.4053 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: god damned i can't find this
asciilifeform: iirc not ignored
mircea_popescu: !up sypher_
phillipsjk: "As explained by Gavin Andersen on the forum - in order to calculate the ID hash of the Tx that is used in the Merkle Tree, one needs to SHA hash the whole Tx message as defined in the Protocol Specification wiki page twice." http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2177/how-to-calculate-a-hash-of-a-tx (second answer links to a diagram done by the Armory developer)
assbot: transactions - How to calculate a hash of a Tx? - Bitcoin Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYspvd )
phillipsjk: etotheipi: "If you want to hash a Tx for ECDSA signing/verification, that's a whole different story (although, the link above also shows how to do that, too)." link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29416.0
assbot: On-the-wire byte map & OP_CHECKSIG diagram (knowledge donation!) ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYsL54 )
phillipsjk: See, there is some gold buried in the bitcointalk forum. Sifting through all the noise is a pain sometimes though.
asciilifeform: knowing what we know about the folks of the tardphorum, it is worth the while of anyone who actually gives a flying fuck, to consult the source.
phillipsjk: The source does not have a graphical summary. You can think of it as a "map". Maps are known to be wrong on occasion.
asciilifeform: don't be the fellow who follows his 'gps' receiver off the derelict bridge and into the sea.
phillipsjk has never quite understood why geocaching is supposed to be exciting "because you don't know what $Gaint_Obstacle you will encounter!"
phillipsjk: I think GPS recievers include maps now, but still.
asciilifeform: not exciting at all with radio cheat.
asciilifeform: exciting when done the proper way
asciilifeform: (practice for weapons cache emplacement and retrieval.)
asciilifeform: consult the literature.
mircea_popescu: ahhh finaly.
phillipsjk: I was in Cadets for a while, and liked map&compass.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2015 21:22:05; mircea_popescu: "4. You don't deserve to know any of that. It's none of your business. I invited my readers to chip in on a project--or not. I did not invite you to worm your nose into every aspect of my life, hunt down pictures of my home, call me names, or tell me I was worthless, arrogant, greedy, and undeserving. But you want to rip me bare and expose how awful you're sure I am. I get it, you want me transparent
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk trusting summaries, especially when "graphical" is a sure path to perdition.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126900 @ 0.00040187 = 50.9973 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 424664 @ 0.00039968 = 169.7297 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: "It's all crap. This SJW shit is the Tea Party of the left. "
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: kickstarter article: ks is straight from the encyclopaedia of chumpatronic circuits, chapter 'make use of chumps directly in the machine’s control system.' as in 'multi-level' crapolade of every variety.
mircea_popescu: actually... the swj shit is what the left likes to think the tea party.
mircea_popescu: odd how this works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform um. this seems to me just a completely inept, disorganised kid.
asciilifeform: referring to ks itself
asciilifeform: which laughs all the way to the bank whether man or monkey sits down and pens prospectus / collects.
mircea_popescu: and no doubt once they sell to facebook / washington mutual / obama's pubic hair,
mircea_popescu: they'll sell for way more than the gpg "dev" got to sell out the thing she doesn't represent.
mircea_popescu: and defo more than the lousy one year salary gavin got for attempting (and failing) some
asciilifeform: all that's missing is a usg-operated altcoin to go with it
mircea_popescu: (which incidentally makes me curious, if you get usg advance on promise to deliver and then fail to deliver, do you hjave to repay ? or go to jail ?)
asciilifeform: they'd pull whatever string was attached to the muppet
asciilifeform: until head comes off.
asciilifeform: (what string? ask gerald davis or any of the rest, i've no idea)
asciilifeform: maybe davis will tell us what it was if he finally recovers his courage and eats his luger on camera
asciilifeform: perhaps will say to the camera
mircea_popescu: there's always a fine excuse.
mircea_popescu: "i'm married - gotta make sure my kids have no better anything to look up to than i did"
asciilifeform: i'd bet it's a solid, tangible string
asciilifeform: at least for most of'em
mircea_popescu: doubt it
mircea_popescu: too expensive.
phillipsjk is too tired to be useful.
mircea_popescu: so go to bed!
mircea_popescu: "I think that, like species, languages will form evolutionary trees, with dead-ends branching off all over. We can see this happening already. Cobol, for all its sometime popularity, does not seem to have any intellectual descendants. It is an evolutionary dead-end-- a Neanderthal language."
mircea_popescu: how the fuck can he write this.
asciilifeform: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: "Even when there were still plenty of Neanderthals, it must have sucked to be one. The Cro-Magnons would have been constantly coming over and beating you up and stealing your food."
mircea_popescu: what cro-magnon ever beat up a neandhertal ?!
mircea_popescu: wtf, global warming retroeffects.
assbot: Re: Representing code as XML: the Flare Programming Language - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/18WGOfl )
asciilifeform: ancient hypothesis where the former ate up the latter
gabriel_laddel: ^ related
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: have you grokked the "why" of lisp yet?
mircea_popescu: have i ended up like the lisp heathen or something ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: nah, I'm writing something now for other reasons, will link when finished if you've not.
mircea_popescu: i think it's a fine language! i just don't have anything to do in it.
gabriel_laddel: I'll take that as "no".
mircea_popescu: imagine me like a guy that has no poem to write. k ? so i don't write in italian. splendid language for the best of poems, and even for talking melodicly about the tv shows.
asciilifeform 'didn't have anything to do in it' likewise for first decade or so of knowing
mircea_popescu: but...i ain't got much to say
mircea_popescu: i don't write any c, either, or c++. i've never written either java or javascript. i sometimes to a little bash, and always to dig up natural language strings in natural language dialects. or otherwise mess the mup.
mircea_popescu: i guess i mostly use bash to php in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu would probably have enjoyed snobol.
assbot: Snobol Language ... ( http://bit.ly/1zhCqfV )
punkman: too much log!
asciilifeform: (no, not 'cobol for snob', as i once thought as a kid)
mircea_popescu: lol. i think we did something with it in school. dun recall so well.
mircea_popescu: but in any case - i'm perhaps the worst market for any language. sort-of like a grasshopper is no market for leather goods.
asciilifeform: i may never have sat down to play with it had the library not thrown out (yes) the only book on it therein.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 03:16:39; mod6: OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014
asciilifeform: punkman: on what ?
punkman: oh wait, mine is 1.0.1e
punkman: asciilifeform: debian 7, x86
mircea_popescu: bitcoin - error only counts if generated by the right software on the right hardware on the right data spot.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, absent one of 3, it's "normal"
mircea_popescu: such we've progressed...
asciilifeform: obligatory for all serious weirdlang aficionados.
asciilifeform: it's a bell labs product incidentally.
punkman: worrydream fella has some interesting stuff
punkman: I remember his "The Future of Programming" talk, made me sad
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78850 @ 0.00039259 = 30.9557 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: sad because you thought "one day i too will be stupid and senile like graham" ?
asciilifeform: 'worrydream' is not graham
punkman: sad because he shows cool things that we threw away
asciilifeform: punkman: my www is largely about these particular things.
punkman: asciilifeform: yes I have perused (even before #b-a ;)
assbot: Bret Victor - The Future of Programming on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/18WIvJE )
mircea_popescu: oh i had the wrong talk :p
assbot: The Hundred-Year Language ... ( http://bit.ly/18WIG82 )
assbot: Cheap Smartphone Dongle Diagnoses HIV And Syphilis In 15 Minutes | IFLScience ... ( http://bit.ly/18WJjOQ )
punkman: "Matt Green, a professor specializing in cryptography at Johns Hopkins University, said he has looked at the GnuPG source code and found it in such rough shape that he regularly assigns chunks of it to his students for review. At the end I ask how they felt about it and they all basically say: 'God, please I never want to do something like this again'"
punkman: "It's not maintained by enough people, given how big it is, and it contains a lot of old cruft that should be gotten rid of. When it got re-engineered from version 1 to version 2, version 2 got re-engineered in this abstract way [so] that it's hard to figure out what's going on on the back end."
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 03:20:14; asciilifeform: let's rip out openssl in the simplest way
assbot: kmackay/micro-ecc · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/18WJY2A )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62850 @ 0.00039571 = 24.8704 BTC [+]
assbot: Guide To Setting Up A Remote Bitcoin Node For $20 Per Year | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/18WKGwP )
mircea_popescu: anyone remember bluemeanie ? http://blog.bluemeanie.net/
assbot: BlueMeanie Blog. Cryptocurrency / Cryptofinance ... ( http://bit.ly/18WLaDb )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105500 @ 0.00040047 = 42.2496 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124250 @ 0.00039601 = 49.2042 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25313 @ 0.00039601 = 10.0242 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 242100 @ 0.00039809 = 96.3776 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00039601 = 7.9202 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156000 @ 0.00039198 = 61.1489 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68900 @ 0.00040095 = 27.6255 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83450 @ 0.00040138 = 33.4952 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44689 @ 0.00040138 = 17.9373 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112401 @ 0.00040992 = 46.0754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134950 @ 0.00041144 = 55.5238 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10899 @ 0.00041331 = 4.5047 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163701 @ 0.0004169 = 68.2469 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172704 @ 0.00041777 = 72.1506 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156148 @ 0.00041872 = 65.3823 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00041125 = 25.7854 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173600 @ 0.00041904 = 72.7453 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31175 @ 0.00041915 = 13.067 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64567 @ 0.00041974 = 27.1014 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214450 @ 0.00042114 = 90.3135 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176093 @ 0.00041074 = 72.3284 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl dead scoopbot ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: The left trying to steal yet another word pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/16SWuzH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00041783 = 34.471 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00041783 = 5.3273 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121381 @ 0.00041783 = 50.7166 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "I have little direct evidence about the atrocities in the Spanish civil war. I know that some were committed by the Republicans, and far more (they are still continuing) by the Fascists. But what impressed me then, and has impressed me ever since, is that atrocities are believed in or disbelieved in solely on grounds of political predilection. Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those o
mircea_popescu: f his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence. Recently I drew up a table of atrocities during the period between 1918 and the present; there was never a year when atrocities were not occurring somewhere or other, and there was hardly a single case when the Left and the Right believed in the same stories simultaneously. And stranger yet, at any moment the situation can suddenly reverse itself and yeste
mircea_popescu: rday's proved-to-the-hilt atrocity story can become a ridiculous lie, merely because the political landscape has changed."
mircea_popescu: aww, global warming -> climate change is not a trope creator ?! WHO KNEW!!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115103 @ 0.00040913 = 47.0921 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007145 << for it to be worth my time at this amount, i'd want half the profit.
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:27:14; mircea_popescu: well, if you make a f.mpif pc and report your trades, say daily, and submit monthly sum reports, i dunno, 10 ?
mircea_popescu: nah, first timers get a few % of the profit, and at the end of a whole year.
adlai: or 100% of the profit from using my own 10btc
adlai: i'd make a more reasonable offer for a more attractive amount of capital
mircea_popescu: yes, and the oppoortunity to have the same problem in 2016.
mircea_popescu: you're not getting any younger you know.
mircea_popescu: but, apart from that, your life, live it as you think fit.
assbot: Venus in Fur | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KsTg3Z )
pete_dushenski: ^took in a play ostensibly about domination and submission last night
adlai is one of the youngest folks around here, to his knowledge...
pete_dushenski: interesting idea and even some shining moments, but the script was out to post-post-modern lunch
mircea_popescu: Alana Hawley would be a great porn star name.
pete_dushenski: having been written in the last decade, though, it's no huge surprise that venus in fur was timid at best
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu yup
pete_dushenski: if only she were a little more physical
pete_dushenski: it was so strange to see an apparently confident woman be so physically inept
pete_dushenski: as if confidence didn't translate into the real world
pete_dushenski: but was merely something to be believed in one's own head
mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> it was so strange to see an apparently confident woman be so physically inept <<< this is quite a problem, yes.
pete_dushenski: maybe it was just the pussy director keeping the actors so reigned in
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1008292 << this works, low volume but still enough to profit. haven't tried paymium yet but volume there is still very low. what about buttfinex?
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 13:21:22; jurov: perhaps i can look into kraken
jurov: adlai you know buttfinex's history
mircea_popescu: i can't begin to imagine how people think actresses are to be taken seriously if it's plain obvious that should a drill sargeant manifest and yell "STRIP!" she'd start trembling like an eight year old.
adlai isn't aware of a major exchange that with a satisfactory history
adlai: jurov: but which specific episode are you referring to?
jurov: well, not all of them are based on reusing previously published gnarly code
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135355 @ 0.00040262 = 54.4966 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu which is precisely what the male protagonist bemoans in the opening scene of the play
pete_dushenski: only to fall head over heels for a slightly more verbose version of the same thing
adlai has lost money from garbage data spewed by finex's "trading engine" during extreme load... but he's also making >⅓% daily there, which has its charms
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski part of your disbelief also comes from you thinking in plain terms of d/s whereas the show seems to be thought more in terms of "a coupla switches get together".
pete_dushenski: for those interested, venus in fur is apparently playing pretty well everywhere these days
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu that isn't implausible
pete_dushenski: this isn't my area of expertise and i'm working from my own understanding of human motivations
pete_dushenski: and i think my reservation lies mostly in the lack of commitment
pete_dushenski: the flimsiness of either role
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski to quote adlai above, as far as the young actors are concerned, "it'd take half the theatre to make it worth their while" :D
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:19:42; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> adlai: why does it have to test on actual live-fire btc anyway? << so he can make a buck ?
adlai shrugs
jurov: adlai you know, risk assessment.
jurov: and if this is going to mpif, default is not really viable
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu never sleeps
thestringpuller: i believe mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are robots
mircea_popescu: i just woke up yo.
mircea_popescu: !up Dimsler
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu lol i guess so
jurov: if it was extra asset with stipulation "if buttfinex fails, tough luck" then that's naother thing
pete_dushenski: the world doesn't revolve around me, i'm told
Dimsler: lol looks like mircea made it on reddit on the feminist board
adlai: this is actually why i suggested that for an mpif pc, it'd make the most sense to run the bot on s.mpoe itself
Dimsler: someone was quoting your womens studies article
jurov: so, let's do s.mpoe first then
jurov: and i can submit company papers to kraken and we'll see. but it will need really good agreement as to who is liable
mircea_popescu: eh, and you'll enforce a really good agreement how ?
adlai would rather not be liable for ancient sea creatures running off with your bit-gold. placing bad trades is another matter, but this is measurable with much more resolution than solvency
adlai: amazing how this thing just keeps running while i'm in here, almost like it's not human
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97737 @ 0.00040239 = 39.3284 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126786 @ 0.00040136 = 50.8868 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Women's prison mass jail break after inmates in dominatrix gear handcuff male guards expecting 'mass orgy' - Mirror Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJnF5l )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65600 @ 0.00040679 = 26.6854 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha this actually happened ?!
mircea_popescu: seems its bs.
mircea_popescu: all hits on Bruno Amorim that are relevant to this story come from telegraph.co.uk
mircea_popescu: not likely this'd have happened and no mention in spanish/portuguese press.
asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342460 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 259 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 11 hours, 55 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 45174899518.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.45421
asciilifeform: 305112.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74400 @ 0.00040756 = 30.3225 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1700 @ 0.00092475 = 1.5721 BTC [+] {9}
asciilifeform: punkman: micro-ecc << very interesting. mainly in that it is actually small enough to read.
asciilifeform: Cheap Smartphone Dongle Diagnoses HIV And Syphilis In 15 Minutes << sham. not in that the tech doesn't work (it does) but in that it is the ordinary single-shot immunoreactive test, but for some (chumpatronic) reason someone bolted it on to a pNohe.
asciilifeform: likewise, device requiring drops of blood is a nonstarter from the perspective of thermonuking the contagion.
asciilifeform: that requires 'spit in cup, five seconds'
asciilifeform: (see old thread on the subject)
mircea_popescu: saliva syphilis testing is like from 1966
asciilifeform: afaik nobody gives a damn re: syphilis today.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78597 @ 0.00041154 = 32.3458 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: half the claim in article.
mircea_popescu: but anyway hiv is not ever going to be diagnosable in saliva.
mircea_popescu: might as well insist you find burglars by inspecting livestock exclusively.
asciilifeform: immunoreactive test at ppb concentration is not a wholly outlandish concept
mircea_popescu: think what ppb concentrations mean.
mircea_popescu: is it possible through pure chance to miss an infection because it just didn't happen to go to saliva ?
asciilifeform: parachute also can fail, yes.
mircea_popescu: not by any means to the same degree.
mircea_popescu: at the size of the proteins involved, there's not really THAT many billion units in a saliva sample.
mircea_popescu: your test will probably be in the double digit failure rate, which is laughable. i suspect it is impossible for chemodynamic reasons to make it single digit, which makes it impractical
mircea_popescu: which is why attempts aren't really pursued/financed.
asciilifeform: quite possibly.
mircea_popescu: at least it's my off the cuff math
asciilifeform: on other hand, we aren't looking for the virus.
asciilifeform: but for the antibodies.
mircea_popescu: they are still large, and not particularly saliva bound.
asciilifeform: so concentrations of virus in fluid for the purpose of transmission - yes, extremely low to none
mircea_popescu: logically, the antibodies are not often found where the virus is not often found. the human machine is still a machine, trying to be economical if possible.
asciilifeform: apparently, commercial SOP
asciilifeform is behind the times
mircea_popescu: "This is due, in part, to variations in the type and volume of oral sample collected, how the sample is handled prior to testing, the concentration of immunoglobulin (Ig) G present, and if testing methods have been modified to accommodate the use of oral fluids. In early studies that reported poor sensitivity, whole saliva was used and there was little consideration for the volume and condition of the sample needed and
mircea_popescu: the choice of screening assays employed. For this reason, investigators have developed specialized collection devices that enhance the level of antibodies, particularly IgG, in oral specimens, ensure sufficient specimen volume, and include reagents to prevent microbial growth and proteolytic breakdown of antibodies. In general, this has been accomplished by collecting oral fluids enriched in gingival crevicular fluid
mircea_popescu: and mucosal transudate, which possess increased levels of IgG relative to saliva"
mircea_popescu: a) it's not "spit in cup" and b) it still doesn't really work.
mircea_popescu: also, this is all positive testing. what you want is negative testing. entirely different beasts.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 5257 @ 0.00021898 = 1.1512 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87100 @ 0.00041321 = 35.9906 BTC [+]
punkman: asciilifeform: punkman: micro-ecc << very interesting. mainly in that it is actually small enough to read. << speaking of small things...
punkman: netbsd has a pgp implementation
assbot: NetPGP - digital signatures and encryption ... ( http://bit.ly/1zJ3OXS )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106700 @ 0.00041362 = 44.1333 BTC [+]
punkman: I assume this has less baggage
mircea_popescu: if someone feels like reading it...
punkman: speaking of baggage, there is a type of gpg packet that can cause an infinite loop in version 1.4.16 and before
punkman: (been there since 1999)
danielpbarron: speaking of netbsd; that's what i'm researching as a candidate to replace archlinux for the pogo
asciilifeform: netpgp << appears to use openssl...
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011857 << i'm interested in doing this, but it requires either collaboration with an mpex account holder, or the fabled coinbr api...
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 18:14:06; jurov: so, let's do s.mpoe first then
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: netbsd on pogo << last i checked, lacked support for internal eeprom
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: which is a deal-killer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107838 @ 0.00041422 = 44.6687 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: adlai i think pretty much the entirety of the problem stems from your outright bizarre expectation that bitcoin will somehow suit you. the correct approach is exactly the opposite : change yourself to suit exactly.
mircea_popescu: it's not "a technology", specifically in that it's not made to serve man.
mircea_popescu: it's a discovery. it bends future behaviour.
adlai: don't worry, i believe the same nonsense about my discovery
asciilifeform: confirmed, netpgp uses openssl for the actual maths.
asciilifeform: into the skip, it goes.
asciilifeform: had to spend a grand total of two minutes reading, to learn this.
adlai: also i don't follow why you think that i have this expectation, or that it affects my problem(s)
adlai has more than one!
adlai wonders why so many programmers are like "Math is hard!" barbie
asciilifeform shrugs, also doesn't know
mircea_popescu: adlai nothing wrong with it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's because math is scary, not hard.
mircea_popescu: programmers are, by and large, social sciences rejects.
mircea_popescu: they know enough to steer away from those places where they can most easily be caught being stupid.
mircea_popescu: your average soviet bureaucrat would avoid committing to paper as much as 1+1=2 , if he could get away with it. and sensibly so, because... you never know.
asciilifeform: but from where comes the fear, when no one is looking and the maths are safely under your blanket in the cover of night ?
mircea_popescu: same deal with your average programmer.
mircea_popescu: from the fact that they MIGHT
mircea_popescu: a slightly pudgy 37 yo woman in iowa is not slinking towards her car in a parking lot among crickets because she is going to get raped
adlai: well you can catch yourself being stupid before you "open your mouth and remove all doubt", although i guess it's harder the stupider you get
mircea_popescu: by any one of the 0.05 people present on the same square mile
mircea_popescu: adlai equally harder the smarter you get.
asciilifeform: it's one thing to sign a freshly-packet parachute with your blood, swearing 'i am responsible for this, whatever happens'
asciilifeform: another matter entirely to lazily play game 'paratrooper'
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how narcissism works :)
adlai: khaneman has a chapter on this, tl;dr is that a good "expert" is one who knows when to mistrust expert intuition
mircea_popescu: game much more serious, because not being the work self, it actually therefore must be... THE REAL ME
asciilifeform: that's kinda how i pictured the narcissism working - you play 'paratrooper' and imagine that you are in fact a ww2 hero
mircea_popescu: no, you imagine specifically that you aren't, and that this is specifically why it matters.
mircea_popescu: ANYONE Could be an actual star/paratrooper/president if they actually tried.
mircea_popescu: however... not trying it, is the real performance.
asciilifeform probably needs to reread tlp, because he finds this a little confusing
mircea_popescu: italians, as their states were disintegrating, called this spezzatura
mircea_popescu: a good word to look up in period italian literature.
mircea_popescu: sprezzatura*
asciilifeform: the 'work self' thing i remember, but still find it bizarre
adlai: mircea_popescu: i still don't follow why you say http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011933
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 20:09:21; mircea_popescu: adlai i think pretty much the entirety of the problem stems from your outright bizarre expectation that bitcoin will somehow suit you. the correct approach is exactly the opposite : change yourself to suit exactly.
adlai doesn't have this expectation
mircea_popescu: how do you know this ?
adlai: if it's an unconscious expectation, then i'm not conscious of having it :)
asciilifeform: let's imagine that holy grail, room-temperature superconductor, were discovered tonight
asciilifeform: would folks 'have the expectation that room-temp supercon will work for them' ?
mircea_popescu: depends.
asciilifeform: if anything, they may (depending on inclinations) cower in feat of the inevitable laser pistol battles
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, relish the notion of lasers-at-dawn
asciilifeform: but does this resolve to 'will work for them' ?
asciilifeform: *in fear
mircea_popescu: well, let me change this from something we don't know to something we do know.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113600 @ 0.00042125 = 47.854 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: when the airplane came about, everyone hailed it as a "great civilizing factor"
mircea_popescu: the generalexpectation being, that it will meld into people's lives as they are, making them more so.
mircea_popescu: you aware of this ?
asciilifeform: paging herr orwell..
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, by 1950 the vast majority of the utility of planes was dropping bombs on people's heads.
mircea_popescu: the plane CHANGED their life. it didn't come about to make 1900 a more-1800-than-1800.
asciilifeform: 'Some months ago, in this column, I pointed out that modern scientific inventions have tended to prevent rather than increase international communication. This brought me several angry letters from readers, but none of them were able to show that what I had said was false. They merely retorted that if we had Socialism, the aeroplane, the radio, etc. would not be perverted to wrong uses. Very true, but then we haven’t Soc
asciilifeform: ialism. As it is, the aeroplane is primarily a thing for dropping bombs and the radio primarily a thing for whipping up nationalism. Even before the war there was enormously less contact between the peoples of the earth than there had been thirty years earlier, and education was perverted, history rewritten and freedom of thought suppressed to an extent undreamed of in earlier ages. And there is no sign whatever of these te
asciilifeform: ndencies being reversed.'
mircea_popescu: it came about to "fuck you louise, go in the air shelter and sit there"
mircea_popescu: and to "fuck you charlie, read or don't read but the light stays out"
mircea_popescu: and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: charlie going "i am willing to work with planes as long as either the light stays on or x or y"
asciilifeform: so this.
mircea_popescu: is well... laughable. good luck wioth that, you only have one life and when that's finished there you go.
assbot: Paleofuture - Paleofuture Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8w8Fz )
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2014 17:33:21; asciilifeform: people don't seem to grasp the fact that the situation in 'shall be delivered' is as inevitable as that first street drunk who electrocuted himself in the 1870s (?)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1119 @ 0.00092474 = 1.0348 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps the historical picture in my head is incomplete, but i just can't grasp the portrait of orwell as cockless worm.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ruling elite of his time/place showed every symptom of having 'lost the mandate of heaven', to use the chinese term of art tailor made for this
asciilifeform: what political tack would you imagine he'd have taken, if he had not been a lamer (as pictured in your article) ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97050 @ 0.00041582 = 40.3553 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95600 @ 0.00041767 = 39.9293 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 12624 @ 0.00022571 = 2.8494 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: <chetty> [] and you had to rent the state company ones// coming soon to us, internet public utility will make it so << pretty much here already in the states
danielpbarron: ben_vulpes, did you just try to connect to my node?
ben_vulpes: no sir
ben_vulpes: i'm reading logs from days past, not hacking
danielpbarron: heh, someone did, and it's not configured to serve blocks at the moment
danielpbarron: hey at those QNTR prices, I made ~5 bucks per article i wrote. not bad :D
danielpbarron: better than refreshing a faucet
ben_vulpes: great intangibles
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform not a fan of 'pattern matching' languages << i worked with a database with queries in datalog recently.
ben_vulpes: "datomic"
ben_vulpes: a real joy to work with
ben_vulpes: ;later tell sergiohlb your cloak is getting applied *after* you join
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell sergiohlb your cloak is getting applied *after* you join
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: how many countries have to be fighting a war for the phrase "world war" to apply?
trinque starts catching up on news
trinque: ben_vulpes: good afternoon!
ben_vulpes curls tighter into a hangover ball
trinque: lol
adlai: by that logic, world war iii is the 'war on drugs'
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] interesting idiots are sometimes (temporarily) tolerated. tedious idiots - never. << /me waves
adlai: [] really is getting quite tedious
adlai is a fan of dropping in a url and letting assbot do the heavy lifting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.00041039 = 10.7317 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] actually i'm kinda half curious how many us based conf attendants discover at the border that the newly expanded tsa doth not agree their passport holds any value. << me too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 185100 @ 0.00041726 = 77.2348 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: failure of imagination ^ here. more interestingly, we could, say, go on a 'disappearing' plane. or, more comically, turned out on the return leg: 'we've never heard of you, go and starve in mexico city where you came from'
ben_vulpes: i've a feeling argentina'd welcome me with open arms.
asciilifeform glad for ben_vulpes's good fortune
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't buy the malicious usg. thing is purely reactive, and only within the logic of itself.
asciilifeform wonders what ben_vulpes is still doing in his jail
ben_vulpes: join "anonymous", go on watch list
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: shorting shartups
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: filling tank
ben_vulpes: mod6, asciilifeform: forgive my naivte, but what's the recommended approach to efficiently toggling between versions of libs for compiling cturds? in particular, ssl for bitcoind.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: study the example in 'portatronic'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: limiting the conversation to gcc variants, the command line lib and include flags take precedence for search paths
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see the vars set in build.sh; then look at the top of makefile.unix (bitcoind)
asciilifeform: where LIBS is set
asciilifeform: ditto for DEFS
asciilifeform: the act of toggling versions of libs breaks into these two things, headers (.h) and the libs themselves (for linker.)
ben_vulpes: gotcha
asciilifeform: if anyone is confused about this mechanism, please say. because it is quite central to the whole thing.
ben_vulpes: i start to understand how badly the c toolchain messes with ones head
ben_vulpes: there are all of these things that make sense in the context of it, but...
asciilifeform: in the list of miseries of c/cpp work, this is somewhere near the very bottom.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56039 @ 0.00042148 = 23.6193 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36361 @ 0.00042309 = 15.384 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: right! it's totally innocuous.
ben_vulpes: spittoon, though
asciilifeform: sss-schpluurk.
ben_vulpes: blech.
thestringpuller: really would love to watch a Comedy show inspired by the work of ALF
thestringpuller: we can call it AFL
asciilifeform: ^ lol, cross of 'et' and boar ?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] how do you plan to use it w/o a wallet ? << gotta move all the transaction generation logic out of the turd. implies a database replacement using something that can actually be queried, not a braindamaged k/v store.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] like, the node, which is an always on demon, and then various things connecting to it : such as other nodes, on the eth card, or the user, always on the specifically delegated interface, etc ? << working towards this is the root my plaintive cries about what it means to "bitcoinate"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105400 @ 0.00041061 = 43.2783 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: heard something about your city today lol
ben_vulpes: something indescribeably stupid, no doubt
thestringpuller: i guess. they said the city is a hipster factory.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 06:06:39; mircea_popescu: ironically, irc was a big thing when i was a teen. then pretty much forgot about it. only rediscovered it in a frustrated attempt to make sense of the ever mounting idiocy that bitcoin appeared to be.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 06:06:54; danielpbarron: hah same here
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: buddy of mine who works at the intel plant up there.
thestringpuller: he was like "I've become a hipster even though I was an anti-hipster"
thestringpuller: so they brainwashing people out there ben_vulpes ?
assbot: Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8LfPk )
ben_vulpes: "common household tools"
ben_vulpes: hah and of course a windows machine
ben_vulpes: these old fab hands and their msboxen
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: D1X can do strange things to a man.
ben_vulpes: but uh normally the fab does not produce hipsters, no.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the non-obvious tidbit in the film is that the man can afford those digs without being especially loaded
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: one could get a similar space in some parts of usa, but it would be under 24/7 orc siege and security costs for parity with the pictured workshop would dwarf the rent
ben_vulpes: i did notice the door was unlocked.
asciilifeform: not much of a door, either
ben_vulpes: right
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: define orc
ben_vulpes: fwiw there aren't many orcs in the rural bits of ussa, and one can shoot trespassers on sign in those provinces too
asciilifeform: ^ we've seen what happens to folks who actually try
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92300 @ 0.00042263 = 39.0087 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: most recently, we've seen what happens to people who shoot each other in the suburbs
asciilifeform: perhaps if the tresspasser is white/anglo, it is overlooked.
thestringpuller: it's okay to shoot a nigga in the hood.
thestringpuller: when you shoot him in the suburbs, everyone loses their shit.
ben_vulpes: out in the woods, the sop (as i understand it, not having pulled this particular hat trick myself) is to fire a warning shot, shoot the invader, and then call the sherrif.
asciilifeform: but notice that the pictured workshop is not built into the man's home, presumably he is not present there 24/7.
ben_vulpes: what is different there? why no orcs or plunderers?
asciilifeform: when i said 'security cost', it does not necessarily refer to tanks or rockets
assbot: 50 results for 'orc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=orc
ben_vulpes: actually asciilifeform i contest this stance
ben_vulpes: i've worked in minimally secured shops
ben_vulpes: with tens of thousands of dollars in hardware
ben_vulpes: and more in fancy woods
ben_vulpes: subspace in busy warehouse, not much by way of rent or opportunities for theft.
asciilifeform: 'nobody knows this is not a warehouse full of old shoes' is not 'minimally secured'
asciilifeform: it's the best security there is.
asciilifeform: but the workshop fella posted that to 'youtube' and was not afraid of being robbed. (however, long after, he since moved, to a larger space, iirc.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: your warehouse had heat? 3-phase current? private apartment out of sight of other tenants ?
asciilifeform: and a total lack of draconian conditions in lease ?
asciilifeform: e.g., were you free to live in and legally receive mail there, if you wished ?
ben_vulpes: people lived there yeah
ben_vulpes: and yes, there was 3-phase.
ben_vulpes: decent shaper requires 3-phase.
ben_vulpes: granted, we had to run it from the mains entry point *ourselves*
ben_vulpes: and the guy who ran the place had his own out-of-sight apartment that was rarely shown to other tenants
ben_vulpes: lease was month-to-month
ben_vulpes: i grow to suspect that you see all of the ussa as a homogenous enforcement environment.
asciilifeform: sounds very spiffy, but i notice ben_vulpes is referring to this business arrangement in the past tense
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why'd you leave ?
ben_vulpes: which makes sense, coming from an inhabitant of the Forbidden City
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: career change.
asciilifeform: so, not so cheap that one could budget it as lunch money ?
ben_vulpes: the risk of losing my hands was not worth the pay.
asciilifeform: i mean, to keep the space for pleasure
ben_vulpes: for a man with income, surely.
ben_vulpes: a pauper like myself, though?
asciilifeform not so foolish as to think about 'homogeneous enforcement environments', knows that there are, e.g., vast deserts in usa where folks set off trucks full of dynamite for amusement, etc.
ben_vulpes: "drive by shooting gallery"!!
assbot: Watch Weird America :- The Drive-by Shooting Gallery -: | Weird America Episodes | Learning Videos | Blip ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8MKwW )
asciilifeform: it all exists, yes. and the folks who live there are almost qualified to graduate out of usa.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what is it about that place that provides for space and security at such a low cost?
ben_vulpes: for that matter, where is it?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: leningrad
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aka st petersburg, petrograd
ben_vulpes: mwell
asciilifeform: i don't know the author personally, no. he's just a blogger.
asciilifeform: and what provides for security is that he lives in (laugh, but) the civilized world
ben_vulpes: i'll not laugh, no.
ben_vulpes: not at a term i don't understand.
ben_vulpes: what do you mean by "civilized world"?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at the risk of circularity, the place where you can easily make the kind of arrangement pictured in the film.
asciilifeform: notice that the author had no trouble procuring modern tools
asciilifeform: or materials with which to work
ben_vulpes: is the typical american to expect those to be hard to come by in the "civilized world"?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 06:26:04; mircea_popescu: i live in the sticks.
asciilifeform: i distinctly recall that machine tools are uncommonly difficult to obtain in ar, for example
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2014 22:22:37; benkay: the word i got was that large, tech-heavy equipment gets stalled at the border.
asciilifeform: (see also other threads re: same)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu originally contested the difficulty of importing heavy things, saying it was a problem of the poorly networked
ben_vulpes: but now says he can't even get a pogo shipped in.
asciilifeform: -everything- is a problem of the poorly networked.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it most certainly cannot be true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in. but quite likely true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in for 18 usd per.
asciilifeform: for sufficient price, can get an elephant shipped into pyongyang or south pole.
ben_vulpes: sure.
ben_vulpes: <adlai> [] this is actually why i suggested that for an mpif pc, it'd make the most sense to run the bot on s.mpoe itself << i admire the guys persistence
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93900 @ 0.00042309 = 39.7282 BTC [+]
assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8OUN1 )
adlai: ben_vulpes: context is http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-11-2014#913052, the thing is usable, i'm trying to get people to use it. maybe not the most tactful, but i don't have my own pr lady (yet)
assbot: Logged on 07-11-2014 01:18:27; mircea_popescu: there is exactly one avenue to do that : make it so good some actual trader starts using it, after which go work for him.
ben_vulpes: oh i get it!
ben_vulpes: i'm just saying that i admire your persistence.
adlai: thank you :)
jurov: yea, adlai keeps suggesting and saying "but it requires" ... perhaps one day someone'll make his code working and he'll be left with nice fuzzy feeling
adlai wonders whether that quite does him justice, but arguing on irc gives less of a fuzzy feeling than becoming that someone
jurov: you seem to avoid at any costs mentioning concrete terms to potential investors in this chan
adlai: i'm not set on a specific configuration for how such terms would look; i'm interested to see what works for them. mircea_popescu outlined the terms he offers people who manage profit centers, and it seems that he's not willing at this stage to risk an amount which is worth my time to manage, and this is understandable
adlai: so at this point i'm working further on my code, and waiting to see if anybody interested in using it has terms in mind already
adlai: i'm not going to declare in advance that i want X% of profits, or a Y% upfront fee, if that's what you're looking for
danielpbarron: dude, take the small amount and build some rep; what's with all the whining?
adlai is doing this, shuts up
assbot: Raspberry Pi • View topic - Why is the PI2 camera-shy ? ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrqIpv )
kakobrekla: quite the lulz there
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: all transistors are phototransistors.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: and, as shown here, 'opaque' plastic - isn't necessarily ideally opaque
asciilifeform: just as, say, your fingers are not (get a flashlight and see if didn't remember this)
kakobrekla: yet this normally doesnt hapen
kakobrekla: happen
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: unusually chinese ic package, would be a reasonable hypothesis.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this kind of thing was not unheard of in the old days of windowed uv-erasable eprom.
asciilifeform: (would lose the occasional bits)
kakobrekla: stickerfail?
asciilifeform: didn't always have a cover
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00042263 = 17.349 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu waves at all the people.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he could have been lord curzon II, or else he could have been the Russian Lafayette.
mircea_popescu: this "british socialist, tour of derpage in spain" thing is wormtalk.
mircea_popescu: "oh i hate shootin gelephants and the empire is too heavy ; oh how the latrines stink" is really not adequate for one over the age of about 15.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: better than refreshing a faucet << pretty much teh point.
mircea_popescu: trinque: how many countries have to be fighting a war for the phrase "world war" to apply? <<< ww1 was instituted by gallup poll.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: 'we've never heard of you' <<< i'll insure against that one, for cheap.
trinque: mircea_popescu: maybe they'll crowdsource a sweet name for wwiii from reddit this time
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: there are all of these things that make sense in the context of it, but... <<< i come fresh from a three hour session of discussing eulora game model with c people.
mircea_popescu: i can sort-of read c++ and i comprehend computers, but jesus christ was it fighting against us.
mircea_popescu: on the positive side, mining's also nailed down.
mircea_popescu: an' it rocks.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: my plaintive cries << it's not a bad plan i don't think.
ben_vulpes: cart before the horse until the db's replaced
mircea_popescu: the great debate of "with what" is eagerly awaited. im even working to import two (2) popcorns for the occasion.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i distinctly recall that machine tools are uncommonly difficult to obtain in ar, for example << do i need to show you pictures of the casa del transformador again ?
mircea_popescu: or tell you about how on reports about "power outages" i had all sortos of arrangements in place, including the option to have a container generator installed (worth about 3mw)
mircea_popescu: that i never ended up using because... there hasn't yet been a power outage.
ben_vulpes: first gotta resolve the "embedded" vs "external" question
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it most certainly cannot be true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in. but quite likely true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in for 18 usd per. <<< it doesn't even reach that. the value of ME running pogos is minimal. there are N+k**p things i can do to halp bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: there are, however, bunches (i'm told) of people who would like to do something, but for reasons of barrier of entry, can not.
mircea_popescu: for they, the pogo.
mircea_popescu: it's pretty much the lowest "i did something positive for the world i live in" barrier they'll ever meet.
mircea_popescu: that said, i'll definitely run a few myself.
ben_vulpes: wasn't reaaaally the topic iirc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64842 @ 0.00042309 = 27.434 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104753 @ 0.00042349 = 44.3618 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well i dunno what teh topic really was cause i'm not so sure i said what it seems to be the case i said or something
ben_vulpes: but you mention a 3mw gennie, so that's relevant
mircea_popescu: as you might imagine, it's more expensive to run than just use the grid.
mircea_popescu: however, the point is more along the lines of "solutions exist"
ben_vulpes: more relevantly "can be acquired"
mircea_popescu: actually you can get it on lease, and on quite excellent terms. with any luck, BY DAY.
ben_vulpes: how does renting a backup generator by the day make sense?
ben_vulpes: once you need it so does the rest of town.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: kakobrekla: and, as shown here, 'opaque' plastic - isn't necessarily ideally opaque << actually, only metals are opaque properly.
mircea_popescu: which kinda is what the definition of metal is.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes perhaps you don't understand what "the town" means.
mircea_popescu: buenos aires is larger than north carolina.
mircea_popescu: (not really, but w/e, 2k sqkm or something).
mircea_popescu: if the whole thing's out of power your problems are probably closer to finding enough ak47s rather than generators.
ben_vulpes: yeah. i get it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59700 @ 0.00042247 = 25.2215 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: no no allow me to belabour teh point moar :D
mircea_popescu: because these logs were INSUFFICIENT i swear. i leave for a full few hours and what do i get ? NOTHING
mircea_popescu: " In 1936 it was clear to everyone that if Britain would only help the Spanish Government, even to the extent of a few million pounds' worth of arms, Franco would collapse and German strategy would be severely dislocated. By that time one did not need to be a clairvoyant to foresee that war between Britain and Germany was coming; one could even foretell within a year or two when it would come. Yet in the most mean, cow
mircea_popescu: ardly, hypocritical way the British ruling class did all they could to hand Spain over to Franco and the Nazis. Why? Because they were pro-Fascist, was the obvious answer."
mircea_popescu: this is actually a fair analysis, i suspect. cca 1936, stalin was pro hitler, lord halifax was, undeclaratively, but essentially, pro hitler. everyone was pro hitler.
mircea_popescu: to go from there to fuhrerbunker in less than a decade... you need a real idiot for such a thing.
mircea_popescu: !up benjamindees
benjamindees: <benjamindees> meth is a hell of a drug
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87900 @ 0.00042125 = 37.0279 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you starting silk road 5.0 ?
benjamindees: since I'm not the CIA... no
benjamindees: I was referring to Hitler.
mircea_popescu: and to add to that, hearst & co were DEFINITELY pro hitler.
mircea_popescu: heck, ford even got decorated for it.
mircea_popescu: benjamindees iirc he did cocaine, not really meth
asciilifeform: morell fed him both on occasions
asciilifeform: this is, iirc, well-established.
asciilifeform: 3mw gensets << those, one can get in zimbabwe
asciilifeform: just a bus without wheels, really
asciilifeform: scientific instruments - different ballgame.
mircea_popescu: except they CANT be had in the us.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the value of ME running pogos is minimal. there are N+k**p things i can d << lol, we know these were for friends, not mircea_popescu's house
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except they CANT be had in the us << tell that to kanzure, or any of the ten thousand folks like asciilifeform but moar-loaded.
asciilifeform: ebay hunting for usg surplus tech is a national sport.
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow your street loses power, you can't simply ordered a truck without wheels dropped in front of your property. for various pseudolegal and regtulatory reasons that essentrialy reduce to
mircea_popescu: "zek may not use or display power"
asciilifeform: lol! everybody on the street (but me, apparently) owns a genset
mircea_popescu: mebbe i am confused as to how things actually work thar.
asciilifeform: perhaps in some ultra-fascist locale like Mass.?
mircea_popescu: is wash dc different ?
asciilifeform: or san fran
benjamindees: yeah, you can find a large military surplus generator for cheap, but 3MW is pretty large
asciilifeform lives outside the city limits of wash.d.c. proper
mircea_popescu: oh well then obv.,
asciilifeform: 3MW is a railroad car.
mircea_popescu: not these days, notrly.
mircea_popescu: engines have apparently improved drastically.
asciilifeform: engine+tank
asciilifeform: quite a few office parks around here have gensets. through a quirk of bureaucracy, they were made mandatory at one point
asciilifeform: normally only connected to hallway lights & elevators, though.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not at all what i mean.
mircea_popescu: i mean order. not prepared. order. when you feel like.
mircea_popescu: drop in street. on curb.
mircea_popescu: this is the important part here. not that "in principle could be had"
asciilifeform: we have those too. typically found at construction sites.
mircea_popescu: "could be had when you decide, on your own terms"
asciilifeform: advertised for rental, like bulldozers & excavators.
mircea_popescu: aha so same thing then
asciilifeform has not priced
asciilifeform: but wanted to point to the difference between a ubiquitous piece of construction equipment (SOP for electric welders at large sites) and something like a 6-axis cnc mill
asciilifeform: or ir spectrometer
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the thing is, argentina-chinese trade relations are about as close as us-canada
mircea_popescu: if the chinese make it, it can be had here.
asciilifeform can picture this
mircea_popescu: in fact argentina is about as close you can get to china without having to fuck azn looking women.
asciilifeform does not often have praise for usa, but cannot deny that it is a first-class graveyard for surplus golden toilet tech - e.g., machines like the 'tecan 200' (see ancient thread) originally costing 1/3 $mil can be had for ~5-10k usd, etc.
asciilifeform: to the point that the limiting factor is finding climate-controlled floor space for them
mircea_popescu: now that sort of thing is probably a lot iffier.
mircea_popescu: obviously a scavenger civilisation will hafta be built on top of the previous cities.
asciilifeform goes off to check on roaring propane heater; if water bottle thawed, workshop is habitable
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you use radiant or forced air?
benjamindees: asciilifeform, my surplus junk lives outside /shrug
mircea_popescu: "Kipling is in the peculiar position of having been a byword for fifty years. During five literary generations every enlightened person has despised him, and at the end of that time nine-tenths of those enlightened persons are forgotten and Kipling is in some sense still there."
mircea_popescu: "It is no use pretending that Kipling's view of life, as a whole, can be accepted or even forgiven by any civilized person. It is no use claiming, for instance, that when Kipling describes a British soldier beating a 'nigger' with a cleaning rod in order to get money out of him, he is acting merely as a reporter and does not necessarily approve what he describes. There is not the slightest sign anywhere in Kipling's wo
mircea_popescu: rk that he disapproves of that kind of conduct–on the contrary, there is a definite strain of sadism in him, over and above the brutality which a writer of that type has to have. Kipling is a jingo imperialist, he is morally insensitive and aesthetically disgusting. It is better to start by admitting that, and then to try to find out why it is that he survives while the refined people who have sniggered at him seem t
mircea_popescu: o wear so badly."
mircea_popescu: there you go, asciilifeform, re the orwellworm thread. he perfectly well knows what the problem is.
mircea_popescu: "how dare man live like man! UNFORGIVABRU!!!1"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104041 @ 0.00041927 = 43.6213 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82000 @ 0.00041061 = 33.67 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179200 @ 0.00040825 = 73.1584 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: radiant or forced air << yard shed. portable furnace thing.
asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342511 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 208 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 7 hours, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44950465076.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.91043
asciilifeform: 308821.
asciilifeform: !s gettrust assbot benjamindees
assbot: 0 results for 'gettrust assbot benjamindees' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gettrust+assbot+benjamindees
asciilifeform: !gettrust assbot benjamindees
assbot: benjamindees is not registered in WoT.
gribble: Time since last block: 12 minutes and 21 seconds
decimation: re: generators < the power is so unreliable in many areas on the east coast that many folks have a propane or natural gas powered generator permanently installed at their house
asciilifeform: those who don't, typically own a small (5-10kW) genset on wheels
asciilifeform: except for poor schmucks who live in flats, those sit out mains outages in their cars.
decimation: re: 3mw genset < yeah that's basically a diesel-electric locomotive
decimation: the military has generators in a 'standard container'
decimation: asciilifeform: I have a small 2 kw job that runs on propane, to run essentials 'just in case'
decimation: why propane? can be stored for a decade; doesn't leave nasty shit in the engine
decimation: generator container >> http://www.generatorcontainer.com/gallery1.htm << even has price in bezzlars!
assbot: Generator Container Industrial Diesel Containers ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsloGV )
decimation: ah but those come sans generator
decimation: at any rate, perfectly common industrial tool
decimation: re: law enforcement deserts < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8sEJq3jR4 < gentlemen shooting various objects (including propane tank) in the middle of the freakin' desert
assbot: CZ 7.62x39 vs. Coleman Propane Tank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsnJ4C )
asciilifeform: the candle - cheating!
cazalla: why the demand for s.qntr?
decimation: asciilifeform: heh yeah
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