Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-10-21 | 2019-10-23 → ↓
asciilifeform writin' wwwistic calculator to go w/ the cost article.
BingoBoingo: Welcome back billymg, your datas are ready.
billymg: hey BingoBoingo, tyvm
billymg: sorry about the join/part, bit of bouncer issues
billymg: just got back from cr, am now land owner
BingoBoingo: Congrats
billymg: thanks, it was quite a process, but glad now that it's done
BingoBoingo: Plantation? Game reserve? Hobby farm?
billymg: yeah, ranch, not too far from the beach. multiple structures so there are rental / bnb opportunities
billymg: very nice safe house overall
BingoBoingo: Is it a working ranch with livestock or gotta bring your own?
billymg: some existing cows that belong to the groundskeeper, a native tico who's been on the property for even longer than the previous owner
billymg: the previous owners ran it as a bnb, have some existing relationships that carry over as well (outside any platform sites)
billymg: plus some long term renters (expats) in one of the houses
billymg: i took some photos on this trip as well, plan to do a post about the experience (once i get my blog back up)
billymg: speaking of, BingoBoingo, asciilifeform, it sounded like there was an option for some interim shared hosting. i would be interested in that if available. then when i'm on the ground i will look around for a local DC
BingoBoingo: The interim server is only supporting www, no bouncers.
asciilifeform: billymg: i've a rack, and about to post very pedantic analysis. so i dun need temp host, but ty.
BingoBoingo: Don't plan to run it as interim hosting more than 3 months, etc
asciilifeform finally, posted draft.
feedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3486 << Loper OS -- TMSR North Ameristan Rack Prospectus: Initial Draft.
asciilifeform: ^ mp_en_viaje , diana_coman , & all other panzers, achtung!
asciilifeform goes to fix the inescapable typos
asciilifeform: ^ a mechanized price estimator is included .
asciilifeform: all prospective inhabitants , invited to comment.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i omitted discussion of shared hosting strictly because the provisions do not yet exist. but it should be simple to compute the cost of emplacing the necessary machine, via this draft.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: With that margin, you certainly are going to want to sell the shit of of shared for some gravy.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: certainly.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma stfu tho until mp has chance to comment, it seems likely that i made a coarse error of pilotage somewhere.
asciilifeform: ( the #s -- correct; but re the logic. )
billymg: asciilifeform: np, ty
billymg: BingoBoingo: space on anyserver would be much appreciated, and the terms seem fine
BingoBoingo returns to typing up meeting notes.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my intention is to fully supply the needs of l1, in a sustainable scheme, prior to any mega-expansions.
BingoBoingo: billymg: Did you successfully ssh in yet?
asciilifeform: (because of the very aggressively low price of the upsteam, this is imho practical.)
billymg: yup, grabbed my backups, tyvm
BingoBoingo: billymg: Just going to run an mp-wp site?
billymg: yes, i'll sadly stick to this lulazon box for my bouncer until i get something else figured out
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my other intention is to demonstrate that i can actually run a satisfactory ( to the standard of mp & co ) rack.
billymg: anyserver would be only for billymg.com and nothing else
BingoBoingo: billymg: upload your site's files an a .sql dump. Once that's done ping me and I'll breath life into it. Probably tomorrow.
billymg: excellent! will do
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is interesting that you think the margin is small. i was thinking it is rather fascist.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I do suspect you gravely underpriced the Rockchips for their share of the pipe if nothing else. At just under 9 USD, that's probably going to make any shared price point impossible.
asciilifeform: ( earlier was wondering, how the moldavian d00d charges 35eu per 1u. but diana_coman's bandwidth tests seem to suggest the answer.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: shares-of-pipe are to be handled as described under 'physical space & energy' # III .
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i did not want to start right off the bat w/ explicit pipe rationing, because it in itself imposes some loss of total capacity. but the provisions for rationing are in place.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as for rk vs shared hosting, i actually prefer that folx live in rk, it is considerably easier to administer , each user gets actual physical machine where can do as he pleases.
asciilifeform: incl. 'bouncers', i want that 'ddos proof' claim tested sooner rather than later.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for l2 n00bs can do shared hosting , per '1y phree' scheme suggested earlier by mp.
asciilifeform: so we'll defo want the provisions for it.
asciilifeform spent 4d nao thinking about 'how to price', 'what to price', and head hurts.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The actual physical machine aspect and the potential frustrations involved in the detailed fingerwork of handling RK drives and cables, suggests a price floor may be in order.
BingoBoingo: But the shared machine will have an advantage for hosting www in that www benefits from having all the ram possible
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i think you know, i had rk provisioning ~100% automated.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: this is so. the current standard rk contains 2GB ram.
asciilifeform: a 256G 'dulap' potentially could house ~128 users at similar ram apportionment (but only 8 if each were to be allotted 4 cores as present in rk.)
BingoBoingo: Even with the lessons learned. Drives die, etc. 3 year depreciation may make sense for a dulap, but on a rockchip even with forced air...We had a Rockchip die
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: indeed we did
asciilifeform: hence 'this document aint final'
asciilifeform: i expect mp will have other, harsher crit, also.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: observe that i allotted 50/mo of catch-all overhead. this i expect will mostly go to maintenance of rk plant.
asciilifeform: and the purchase of spares.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'd like to keep prices 'as low as possible, but not lower'. heathendom offers much lower, theoretically, prices, than what is seen in this prospectus . and not erryone agrees ' asciilifeform's hands worth added 50/mo ', so keeping the greed to a min.
BingoBoingo: Is there anywhere leasing singleboard arms, hosted for under 10 USD monthly?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: funnily enuff the upstream provider colos (not leases) 'raspberries' for 10.
asciilifeform: i dun like 'raspberries' tho.
BingoBoingo: raspberries are a lower end product
asciilifeform: they also dun specify what happens when ssd croaks etc
asciilifeform: 'toy' market.
asciilifeform has no intention of attempting gentoo port to 'raspberry' or any other 'boot blobs'-laden arm machine
asciilifeform: asciilifeform-rk hosting is a 'turn-key' product, incl. gentooism, maintenance, debuggery as-req'd, etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: re 'fingerwork' -- i've dismounted the rk's for the 1u earlier built for transport to piz , and they will live in a 'DIN' 2u subrack. so no moar finger gymnastics.
asciilifeform: each will sit on individual rail clamp.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-20 16:34:01 asciilifeform: diana_coman: currently your box looks like this. it'll be sat down on iron DIN rail w/ additional forced air when i put this in, it is still snailing its way through the mails.
asciilifeform puts down the microphone, and goes to meat. bbl.
mp_en_viaje: dawg what a productive monday everyone's been having
mp_en_viaje: in other news, czechs have this "rebel" tv station. lotta pantera / ancient metal , modern sad lulz both local and int'l, and all sorta pink flamingo-likes.
mp_en_viaje: the lulziest wanna-be punk bullshit, filmed out of a $200 potato by a few retards / "custodians" / graveyard shit workers still beats the shit out of the overproduced wanna-be pop of the usgistani "i wanna fuck latina teens" wasptard lobby.
mp_en_viaje: Crashdïet, who the fuck ever heard of this ridiculous nonsense, metalaut went out with the fucking berlin wall
mp_en_viaje: o wait, their production dept reads the logs, now switched to aerosmith (falling in love) and following led zeppelin. aite, aite, your channel's pretty cool, chillax folks.
mp_en_viaje: can't even watch this shit with the lights off, too much lumvariance holy hell.
BingoBoingo: Many sectors of the Fat Forehead party are using potato footage in their ads. Can't even spec spammy blowjob footage quality Xiaomi or Huawei cameras that happen to have radios.
BingoBoingo: Well, biggest offender is the local Communist Party. Misallocation of resources comes with the turf.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-21#1947360 << a large part of this problem, should be prolly mentioned retrospectively, is that aquila non capit muscas / whales don't eat peanuts by the nut (even if elephants do). when i raped the "bitcoin cash" nonsense, for instance, i burned the idiots for thousands upon thousands of bitcoin at a time, as some here involved in the transfer may remember. easy to keep it net positive by frenzy feedi
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-21 17:18:41 mp_en_viaje: easily the worst part of my example is the "und die hundert millionen in meinem schatz" / "money is no object" "battleship mp" part.
mp_en_viaje: ng like that now and again and meanwhile leaking thousands o' dubaloos daily.
mp_en_viaje: just because mp income is not particularly visible dun mean it dun exist ; misinterpreting it as "mp just burns money" is therefore temptingly trivial, but about as wise as "mp doesn't understand computers" or w/e, "can't fucking add".
mp_en_viaje: soros similarly never made a salary, and so on. past a certain size income's whenever you run into a new planetoid to accrete, not every morning with the dew.
asciilifeform waves to mp_en_viaje
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: how's czechia ?
mp_en_viaje: fucking great, actually.
mp_en_viaje: only onther place i currently know competition-capable with costa rica.
asciilifeform moar or less 100% able to eat written czech. spoken, diff matter
mp_en_viaje: vienna also nice, but that's 2nd tier.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, that's ok, czech speakers 100% able to eat mp. yum!
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: do you address'em in deutsch, so to instantly trigger lordosis ?
mp_en_viaje: english, french, even italian!
asciilifeform: lol, dafuq are they doing speaking eng
mp_en_viaje: everyone does fwis.
mp_en_viaje: funny breed of russky-kretuzes, too. big tits on slender waifs.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-21 23:17:09 BingoBoingo: billymg: upload your site's files an a .sql dump. Once that's done ping me and I'll breath life into it. Probably tomorrow.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-21#1947381 << o hey, good for you. blog article ? pix ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-21 22:24:38 billymg: just got back from cr, am now land owner
billymg: mp_en_viaje: yes! blog post and pics coming
BingoBoingo: billymg: ty, putting finishing touches on the lawyer notes
mp_en_viaje: exciting.
billymg: thanks, yeah it's a good feeling
mp_en_viaje: do you intend to continue using it as a bnb sorta thing ?
mp_en_viaje: or kicking everything out, installing own harem in there, castle billy mountain goat & his merry ewes ?
billymg: first the former, until i get myself oriented
billymg: and then i suppose i'll have to see how much i have in me wrt the latter
mp_en_viaje: hey trinque, you feel like taking the tiny concert goer over to cr for a coupla weeks ? you pick up your own airfare ima cover your stay with the fellow.
billymg: it's all a huge departure from show up at office terminal, collect bezzle -- so i'm expecting a learning curve
mp_en_viaje: billymg, i believe.
billymg: mp_en_viaje: you read my mind, was thinking it could serve as a lord's retreat spot. trinque or anyone else in l1 would certainly be welcome
mp_en_viaje: billymg, ima prolly be in africa/middle east this winter ; but defo coming back to cr prolly spring / summer at the latest, i dun so much like summer in yurp.
mp_en_viaje: at which point i'll defo come check it out.
billymg: sounds good, i hope to be there late january myself
mp_en_viaje: works.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, is there on edge of the seat, falling asleep, waiting for me to get to his calculator thing. THE SHOE IS ON TEH OTHER FOOT NAO, HUH!!! you're gonna be asleep before i'm done with all this other stuff, huh! HUH!
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-21#1947428 << irc bouncers utterly ideal for this job, they attract the sorta limp dick "ddos" that separates the latechcos from the adults.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-21 23:26:11 asciilifeform: incl. 'bouncers', i want that 'ddos proof' claim tested sooner rather than later.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-11 09:48:26 mp_en_viaje: and in other morning lulz, oh look! "ddos" failing both the d- and the -dos portions! YOU KNOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO DENY SERVICE RITE
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-21#1947432 << don't be an idiot and think WELL and CORRECTLY about the one guy with extensive tmsr dc experience here present is saying. are you SURE it's correctly priced ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-21 23:28:17 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The actual physical machine aspect and the potential frustrations involved in the detailed fingerwork of handling RK drives and cables, suggests a price floor may be in order.
BingoBoingo: I felt less tension and stress every time I racked and unracked a 1U server solo versus any time I touched the Rockchip plant. I trust his new layout is better based on the picture and his experience being frustrated with the pilot plant, but once it fills... I suspect asciilifeform suffers from the same disease I do where I've consistently failed most of my life to assign value to my time and taken what was offered from the menu.
asciilifeform in fact still awake -- if not for much long
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's strange, i was convinced ~errybody~ would flame re 'outlandish prices'
mp_en_viaje: that's because you're an idiot.
asciilifeform: evidently
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: how come moldavia 35eu tho..
mp_en_viaje: never you mind that part.
asciilifeform will rewrite, after processing all barf from the experts. sorta what 1st draft is for.
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/10/22/notes-from-the-first-meeting-with-counsel/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Notes From The First Meeting With Counsel
BingoBoingo: ^ With the late hour something has to suffer and what will suffer is proofreading. This is the Nth consecutive day I am ending exhausted and I like it.
BingoBoingo: There's a few pictures for the looking too
BingoBoingo: Also meatspace deedbot promotion
asciilifeform deadly tired, will process all queued i/o when wakes up. bbl
BingoBoingo: Sleep well
trinque: mp_en_viaje and billymg, thanks for the offers! I just got in from a vacation, so I'll need to attend to things a while before another. but would love to!
trinque: in other and related news, ressurected trinque.org . will get the url rewriting fixed tomorrow
trinque: night all
mp_en_viaje: kekekekekex
mp_en_viaje: yo asciilifeform : i hit the comment, your blog says "Wrong"
mp_en_viaje: fucking lost it, ima wake up prageu laUGHING, what the fuck is wrong with you
mp_en_viaje: o fuck me, the idiotic "captcha nonsense".
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QGNb << there you go.
asciilifeform wakes up briefly
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: for my debuggification, what was the xor prompt when got 'wrong' ?
mp_en_viaje: nfi, i never fill those in.
asciilifeform: can persuade mp_en_viaje to xor ?
mp_en_viaje: i'm one hair away from buying fucking ww2 de-mining tank, to fuck up all the "speed bumps" i run into, also.
asciilifeform: aite, will then post mp_en_viaje's crit manually when wake up. ( and eat into draft 2, lotsa good point )
mp_en_viaje: fucking bullshit, i should have my shocks fucked because someone else ~might~ speed over your children. go talk to that someone else, not to me.
asciilifeform returns to horiz. pos.
BingoBoingo omitted from the notes post that I did during the closing chit chat bring up that "folks from my part of the US have a reputation for naivety, to the point some go so far as to call us rubes" as we discussed the insanity of common law systems.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, sounds like you're rapunzel over there, woke up as if from spell.
mp_en_viaje: good for you!
mp_en_viaje woke up early to publish trilema article, ended up reading other people's articles for 3 hours, not even done. lessee bvt's now!
mp_en_viaje: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/10/fg-fed-linux-rng/ << the most important q here is, are we going to mandate serpent ? or are we going to permit legacy sha1/chacha ?
mp_en_viaje: plox to weigh in.
mp_en_viaje: imo doing 3.2:1 is seriously problematic
mp_en_viaje: i also kinda like the idea of permitting each user to pick his own rng-hash-crypto key.
mp_en_viaje: sorta gives meaning to computer identity, which... i dunno, seems nice.
mp_en_viaje: and thanks bvt, megaworks there.
diana_coman: wow, nice work bvt! I'll need to re-read it a few times though.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: why mandate a specific hash function (esp given that there isn't any clear way to base such mandate on "this is best hashing")?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: the monthly overhead at $50 seems rather low to me - did you do any sort of estimate re how much of your *time* this will eat? (only considering that you'll spend 40 minutes just going back and forth each time you need to physically go there and that probably assuming good traffic etc)
diana_coman: asciilifeform: since 1 IP per rack anyway, I don't quite see the sense in keeping this all the time separate and then pushed in as an add-on etc. I'd calculate the Te to include IPs enough for a full rack and that's it; sure, additional IPs are additional and then naturally add-ons but that's separate anyway.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: nice to see the calculations for sure; let me add though that this draft is still not a business plan
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-18 13:08:52 diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I am all for hosting it with asciilifeform but tbh I would very much want him to publish an actual business plan on his blog.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, a) to avoid the sha1-powered contraction ; b) to reject, discontinue and clearly mark as untenable pantsuit heritage ; c) to disrupt any possible legacy of usgistani shenanigans in the output ; d) to give meaning to the notion of computer identity ("a computer's key is the hash of the sig it uses to serpent its rng code") and e) for simplicity (one mechanism instead of two as now)
mp_en_viaje: b in any case is a central point of republican policy, as per both http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2018-07-14#1834692 and http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-10-05#1553287 (there's plenty other minor examples0
ossabot: Logged on 2018-07-14 21:30:25 mircea_popescu: notice as in, you know, actually notice, "omfg i can't believe what a shithead i am, missed out on the financial bitcoin train and then on the political too, i truly am too stuipid to fucking live" and subsequently blow their brains out, as any sort of rational process absolutely dictates...
ossabot: Logged on 2016-10-05 13:08:17 mircea_popescu: which is the point here : using ANYTHING made by usg.vc.* is risky, and opens one to various liabilities downstream. including among them - that you will be unwound.
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, mylord verschlimmbessert : how's the http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947499 notion sound ? either take a girl from home, have her do some nude work on the world's greatest beaches to spiffy up your blog illustration-wise ; or else i guess something can be provided locally.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 00:57:27 mp_en_viaje: hey trinque, you feel like taking the tiny concert goer over to cr for a coupla weeks ? you pick up your own airfare ima cover your stay with the fellow.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:31:20 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, mylord verschlimmbessert : how's the http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947499 notion sound ? either take a girl from home, have her do some nude work on the world's greatest beaches to spiffy up your blog illustration-wise ; or else i guess something can be provided locally.
mp_en_viaje: hm how the fuck did that work
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, hey bot ded ?
mp_en_viaje: and since doing this, hey spyked ? you ever been across ocean ?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947561 - I can see that; my thinking was not towards using sha1 but more towards permitting other-than-serpent mainly because 1. serpent is still snake-oil and only adopted-for-lack-of-better option afaik b. maybe tmsr makes its own hash function next year or something (ha!)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:24:44 mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, a) to avoid the sha1-powered contraction ; b) to reject, discontinue and clearly mark as untenable pantsuit heritage ; c) to disrupt any possible legacy of usgistani shenanigans in the output ; d) to give meaning to the notion of computer identity ("a computer's key is the hash of the sig it uses to serpent its rng code") and e) for simplicity (one mechanism instead of two as now)
mp_en_viaje: and if it does it can also make a vpatch
diana_coman: indeed.
diana_coman: and wtf did I do there 1 & b, ugh.
mp_en_viaje: ikr :D
mp_en_viaje: anyway, i suppose the logical next step is for the remarkably productive bvt to do some benchmarking re speed of possible candidates (a list including atm the chacha and serpent -- knowledgeable folk feel free to propose more candidates) so as to have some practical basis.
mp_en_viaje: the fast hash has to be FAST ; while the good hash has to be GOOD. this trumps e) in any case.
diana_coman: keccak I suppose
mp_en_viaje: we know that's ~slow
mp_en_viaje: but yeah, why not benchmark.
diana_coman: for "good" + list.
diana_coman: there is no good hash though, only not-known-yet-as-bad
mp_en_viaje: sadly that'll stay so
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-spitroast-cheap-whore-storage-the-lonely-tower-winter-skies-gashcz-and-the-peach-juicer-you-sort-it-out/ << Trilema -- The Spitroast, Cheap Whore Storage, The Lonely Tower, Winter Skies, Gash.CZ and The Peach Juicer -- you sort it out.
mp_en_viaje: (speaking of which, the misadventures of young Rıza Sarraf might be of some amusment to republican readership)
asciilifeform will write brief nitpick, but most of it 100% agree, and will go into draft 2
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: nitpick to commentary posted.
asciilifeform eats log...
asciilifeform: other omissions in the draft include FG -- i dun presently have a 'equip erryone who asks' supply of'em here. can equip mp_en_viaje & co, but others will have to wait for wat-do re recovery of FG from piz crater
asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947549 << asciilifeform is partial to serpent , but strictly because actually had a chance to do some analysis of it ; and dislikes sha for the obv. reason, and chacha ditto for the reason of originating from post-brainrot bernstein. but theoretically all of these snake oils are equally snake oils, and difficult to argue against the standard 'drink t
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 02:29:31 mp_en_viaje: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/10/fg-fed-linux-rng/ << the most important q here is, are we going to mandate serpent ? or are we going to permit legacy sha1/chacha ?
asciilifeform: he cheapest' formula.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947552 << imho this is a+++ idea. tho as i understand all of the prngism applies strictly to /dev/urandom and so not particularly important how it is wired, no one in his right mind will use urandom for anyffin serious
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 02:32:27 mp_en_viaje: i also kinda like the idea of permitting each user to pick his own rng-hash-crypto key.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947557 << the idea was that time is amply compensated by the margin. (certainly w/ mp_en_viaje's 45% figure, it will be!)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:06:50 diana_coman: asciilifeform: the monthly overhead at $50 seems rather low to me - did you do any sort of estimate re how much of your *time* this will eat? (only considering that you'll spend 40 minutes just going back and forth each time you need to physically go there and that probably assuming good traffic etc)
asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947558 << i considered pre-ordering ( it'll be 62, 14 for 1us and 48 for rk plant, i.e. a /26 ) but that'd be 200/mo vs the current baseline 25, and hesitated to do this until rack actually populated by paying customers, it is steep cost for an empty-for-indefinite-time rack.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:10:10 diana_coman: asciilifeform: since 1 IP per rack anyway, I don't quite see the sense in keeping this all the time separate and then pushed in as an add-on etc. I'd calculate the Te to include IPs enough for a full rack and that's it; sure, additional IPs are additional and then naturally add-ons but that's separate anyway.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947559 << diana_coman what, in your pov, is missing, that mp_en_viaje did not mention ? ( and incidentally did e.g. trinque ever publish biz plan / expense sheet for walletron? )
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:11:38 diana_coman: asciilifeform: nice to see the calculations for sure; let me add though that this draft is still not a business plan
asciilifeform: and typically elaborate biz plans are written for ~investors~ rather than customers, afaik. imho it is reasonable for folx considering to park expensive irons to ask for 'how you plan to remain solvent', hence this thread. but 'how you plan to become rockefeller' is imho tall order. esp. since i've atm no plan to become rockefeller via this work.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-21 23:13:53 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my intention is to fully supply the needs of l1, in a sustainable scheme, prior to any mega-expansions.
asciilifeform: that being said, if diana_coman has specific 'what about x', plox to comment, i'ma address in 2nd draft along w/ mp_en_viaje's crit.
asciilifeform: i'ma rewrite that thing until it actually satisfies all of the prospective inhabitants, would like to start the commercial life of the thing asap.
asciilifeform: if it takes 5 writes -- than 5 writes.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: what does it take for you to stop once and for all the "but x ALSO didn't /did Y"? sure, bash the x who did/didn't if they deserve it, by all means, but that is on them and nothing to do with you, ugh.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's simple logical consistency. why apply 1 standard for rack where park 0.1btc of box, and an entirely diff for wallet where park dozens of btc ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: no; it's simple focus of ONE discussion: why do you care whether X got his bashing yet or not; how is that relevant to what people are asking of you?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: for that matter how do you know "dozens of btc"; and maybe I just love trinque, what.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if it wasn't clear from thrd, i intend to give the askers what they are asking.
asciilifeform: but will have to be specific crit, like mp_en_viaje's.
asciilifeform: 'this is rubbish, not a proper plan' is not an eggog that i can work from, diana_coman . need detailed 'why, idjit, didntcha explain x?'
diana_coman: asciilifeform: re why "for customers", it's a matter of continuity mainly ie how do you plan to actually make this solvent & grow; or don't you plan this? (related: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-18#1946258)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-18 09:33:16 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-17#1946136 << yup, and once he chases a different skirt in a week or two again, "problems" again and so on.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: mk: what do you plan to do to fully populate the rack and over what timeframe?
asciilifeform: the 'solvent' part imho is satisfied by even draft 1. the 'expand' i think deserves more space.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: and if it's not clear, this is not about my rk, the tiny-worth, no; it's mainly because I really don't want to move about s.mg servers again, it's been quite an intense week that post-pizarro implosion one.
asciilifeform: well yes.
diana_coman: take all the space you need, sure; I just want to see it or whether there will be any of it.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'fully populate' i expect will happen quickly when l1 finds prospectus satisfactory. e.g. 4 'dulap'-type boxen and 1 shared-www per BingoBoingo's schematic already exhausts the energy supply. at which pt i'ma expand to full tower. and diana_coman is right imho, this oughta be detailed in 2nd draft.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: please do, thank you.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: re rk -- i included rk plant from the following logic : 1) it was best-selling product in era of piz 2) i am sitting on a crate of brand-new rk that did not get invoiced to piz or get to fly 3) pre-existing interest ( e.g. diana_coman's ) in inexpensive www mirrors.
asciilifeform: on top of this, i have a gentoo for'em; an automated system for provisioning; and rk is 'most cpu for the watt' box that i'm currently aware of, is imho excellent fit for a wattage-constrained initially small tower.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: moar in brief re expansions (will address pedantically in draft 2) -- they will have to be financed by actual revenue, and BingoBoingo-style auctions, i do not have massive capital (and what i have, is earmarked for physical irons, already ordered 'dulaps' and will be purchasing yet-moar of'em once it becomes clear that asciilifeform won't live alone in the rack)
diana_coman: I'll wait patiently for draft 2, there's no need for sneak previews in the logs or anything.
asciilifeform: would like to accumulate all possible nitpicks of 1 before setting out tho.
asciilifeform: diana_coman & mp_en_viaje are the king/queen of the prospective customer base, by weight, and so if no one adds anyffin in next few hrs, i'ma work w/ what's been given so far for draft 2.
asciilifeform: tangentially, other mp_en_viaje point -- anyone readily recall how to banish mutilation of quotes from wp? ( aka 'microshit quotes' )
asciilifeform: i'd like to finally patch mine
asciilifeform: ( will guess that it's 1 line somewhere in that war crime.. but where? )
asciilifeform: fwiw i dun enter text via the 'pretty print' wp editor, but as raw htm paste, so it prolly aint the editor that mutilates
asciilifeform writes all articles by hand, tags an' all
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: https://subinsb.com/how-to-remove-smart-quotes-from-posts-in-wordpress/ << Your version of Wordpress may vary
asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo , i'ma look
BingoBoingo: mp-wp kills em already, and Qntra-wp code hasn't much changed since the cazalla days
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i expect to move entirely to mp's wp when i get to moving www finally. but atm hands quite full. ( it'll be somewhat tricky, will have to port the coad printer extension thing to it, and various other things i changed over 12yrs+ of my www)
asciilifeform: the human-readable urls thing in particular, in mpwp, is quite appetizing.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ty, that actually worked. ( tho, funnily, i had to correct the author's own piece, on ~his~ wp evidently did NOT work, his contained microshit-quotes!! )
BingoBoingo: lol, I suspect an "update" killed his fix
asciilifeform: hell knows. seems to remove the mutilation tho, w/out breaking anyffin (if anyone sees a breakage from this patch on my www, or remaining mutilated quotes -- plox to write in)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, the way wordpress updates, if soemthing gets updates whatever files you customized get replaced. Same if the theme "updates"
BingoBoingo: Pre-V software revisions and errata are barbaric
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: on acct of how asciilifeform sewed his wp, it has never 'auto-updated' nor could it, lol
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 20:04:50 asciilifeform: back in '07 sewed his php wp with 'fascism' , it can only write to db, not to disk directly ; so was never able to use the bitmap processing , www uploader, related, features
asciilifeform: it's a manually gardened wp (if not as elaborately cultured as mp's) .
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/10/kkkalifornia-freshman-pantsuit-congresswoman-caught-breaking-new-house-no-sex-with-staff-rule/ << Qntra -- KKKalifornia Freshman Pantsuit Congresswoman Caught Breaking New House "No Sex With Staff" Rule
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Your way is a clean way to handle WP given you have had other things you'd rather do than clean the messes, a product of its time.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my wp is squarely a 'legacy system', analogous to e.g. 'mpb'. i dun propagandize its use, nor intend to separately genesis it, imho mp has the wp question 100% covered .
asciilifeform: fwiw it has never been detectably vandalized, to date.
asciilifeform: ( 2007 -- present )
asciilifeform: the carrier where it lives, however, is terminally retarded, and it's to be moved as soon as i have a free hand.
BingoBoingo: Qntra-wp similarly legacy system, trapped for the substantial overhead necessary to port the database holding the content. Qntra however is less blog and more wire service.
asciilifeform: ( how retarded? see also thrd. )
ossabot: Logged on 2019-07-18 21:21:31 asciilifeform: sooooo... loox like all things die. and nfs hosting co finally went fullbore stupid. asciilifeform's www is hosed, they 'upgraded' php forcibly.
asciilifeform: when moved, will finally have that static ip...
asciilifeform found that there ~remain~ 'microshit quotes' in certain posts, where text had evidently been pasted from wp output. will have to write a sqlism to remove'em, but prolly not today an' not this week.
asciilifeform: DanielBTC (~macaxeira@unaffiliated/danielbtc) has joined #trilema << anyone know whothefuq that is ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947653 << ftr would have fixed, that wasnt the issue; simply wasn't literate enuff in phpism to do a proper cleanup. ( arguably still even nao , php to asciilifeform is ~= cobol )
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 13:26:30 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Your way is a clean way to handle WP given you have had other things you'd rather do than clean the messes, a product of its time.
asciilifeform will begin proper rework of costs draft #2 tonight. prelim. spreadshit however suggests that w/ 45% margin, three leased 'dulaps' already would bring in enuff to upgrade the tower (+20u, 10x pipe, 2x amperage) ~and~ remain in the black...
asciilifeform: ( in the black revenue-wise, that is; to cover the outlay for the machines per se would take at that rate 10y, supposing an improbably static btc exch rate )
asciilifeform: i'ma have to recalculate w / machine-amort. as separate figure.
asciilifeform: ( elementarily, the irons ~must~ amortize in the given time spans, to cover cost of maintenance/replacement )
asciilifeform will post in #2 example scenarios for 'full occupancy' and what is required to permit expansion of plant.
asciilifeform: ( ^ in the simplest formulation, a full occupancy that brings in net >200 $ (the added expense of upgraded tower) w/out eating into irons amort. budget. )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo and mp were right, btw, it appears that a well-populated rk fixture (and, possibly, shared-machine) are the only way to actually cross that bridge w/out further raising subscriber colo charge.
asciilifeform: ( and right in re rk in draft 1 being catastrophically underpriced )
asciilifeform wonders if he's thinking about this backwards, and oughta instead model the upper half of (expanded) tower as a separate numeric system, w/ same constants but Te == 200.
asciilifeform: for intervals of expansion : would also help if had any way to gauge demand. ( atm i have 1 ~maybe~ dulap-install being considered by diana_coman & mp. anyone else ? )
asciilifeform: w/ the new philosophy of tmsr iron being spread out worldwide, i dunno what kind of occupancy can expect in the immediate term. which is why began with dwarf rack rather than shelling out for the full orchestra immed.
asciilifeform: ( all folx considering emplacing ~anyffin~ in asciilifeform's rack -- plox to write in. no commitment is implied, would like to simply gauge the immediate prospects. )
mod6: asciilifeform: I think it sounds like a good place to rack the foundation's server (as previously discussed).
asciilifeform: mod6: ty, noted
asciilifeform: mod6: didja get a chance to read draft 1 btw ?
BingoBoingo: mod6: Did you get a chance to read the lawyer meeting notes yet?
mod6: Yes, to both.
asciilifeform: mod6: plox to do BingoBoingo's 1st, his fire is moar immediately hot
mod6: Thanks for posting BingoBoingo.
mod6: It totally agree that costs will soar if this thing goes to court.
mod6: Do we have a specific budget in mind here for what we're willing to spend? Because, for me, it's not very high.
asciilifeform: mod6: imho makes sense to spend a sum that is strictly < than the cost of evacuating BingoBoingo . but not moar.
asciilifeform pictures latech reading the l0gz, and thinking 'haha, suckers, we'll spend N+1'
mod6: asciilifeform: that's pretty much where I was at as well. .25 BTC to evac. which is about ~$2k in today's prices.
asciilifeform: mod6: i'd even be ok w/ spending a larger (so long as ~bounded~) sum, if we had some notion re the prospects
asciilifeform: but the decision is ultimately on mod6's desk
BingoBoingo: The damned's budget is 8k USD or less unless they suck at math. Their spending increases faster than ours because up until this enters the courtroom /me is an active legwork participant.
BingoBoingo: This contains our billable hours.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: explain how you obtained a cap for ~enemy~'s budget ?! or do i misread ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The cap on their budget is bounded by their maximum upside by repairing the contract.
asciilifeform: 8k granted may be their budget for fighting plain termination of the contract
asciilifeform: but if damages ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This is why I remain open to settlement while applying maximum pressure.
asciilifeform suspects that settlement is the only way this could come out +ev
asciilifeform: but does req. a credible threat
asciilifeform: ( iirc mp already detailed this. )
mod6: I'll have to admit, I don't care about all the rest of the noise, or whatever, my singular goal is to avoid paying out the rest of the contract.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Even the less than full press in the consumer protection docket, which is less expensive piles costs on them faster than myself as its a mostly diy job.
BingoBoingo: Ending up in the consumer protection docket at all imposes long term costs on them.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: supposing they give rat's arse re 'longterm', i suspect latech is in the 'take the money & run' phase of scamlifecycle
BingoBoingo: I do have a meeting with different counsel tomorrow afternoon as well.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Further action in that direction by the damned leads to the accumulation of criminal fraud charges.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: while it'd be quite satisfying to see the derps jailed, it dun do much for the filling of our crater afaik
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, the Fiscalia spends to prosecute that beyond the initial complaint.
BingoBoingo: And derps still spend in their defense
BingoBoingo: They have clearly constrained upside and very unbounded potential costs.
BingoBoingo: Not including any potential judgment.
BingoBoingo: The damage a judgment does would be constrained in the local environment.
BingoBoingo: The primary ground for damages in the local legal environment once again, are based on my lost income which... not going to generate an incredible huge number.
BingoBoingo: If they don't settle at all they next course is weighing which action imposes the most cost on them at the least expenditure.
BingoBoingo also still not at all inclined to evacuate without a better landing place.
mod6 bbs, f00d
asciilifeform meanwhile opened crate fulla ecc ram.
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947549 << i certainly liked serpent most, because it went through at least some of form republican investigation, but decided not to hurry too much putting it everywhere.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 02:29:31 mp_en_viaje: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/10/fg-fed-linux-rng/ << the most important q here is, are we going to mandate serpent ? or are we going to permit legacy sha1/chacha ?
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947551 << well yes, sha1 is making FG bottleneck much worse.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 02:31:48 mp_en_viaje: imo doing 3.2:1 is seriously problematic
bvt: some thoughts: currently feeder app takes 3% CPU @ ~2.4 kb/s when feeding data into O through HG, because the bottleneck is in FG reading, and lots of overhead seems to be coming from retarded tty interface, which forces reading of individual bytes.
bvt: but how much of cpu percentage would we want to dedicate to good hashing? if e.g. keccak is in place, what could happen (but only experiments will show) is that the bottleneck would be in the CPU -> if the system runs low on entropy somehow and self-hashes (which goes through the HG now, should it go through HF? (would also make sense from Size/2 decision rule)), we'd have an easy DoS vector against the
bvt: system.
bvt: ftr diana_coman's keccak is 1.7 MB/s on my machine @ 100% CPU utilization.
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947552 << this is a nice idea, i will implement it
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 02:32:27 mp_en_viaje: i also kinda like the idea of permitting each user to pick his own rng-hash-crypto key.
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947554 << and ty, mircea_popescu, diana_coman!
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 02:58:56 mp_en_viaje: and thanks bvt, megaworks there.
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947556 << well, as long as selection procedure is rational, can always explain why have chosen this one and explicitly say that this is not an endorsement.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 05:46:09 diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: why mandate a specific hash function (esp given that there isn't any clear way to base such mandate on "this is best hashing")?
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947572 << allowing arbitrary hash functions would create more bloat -- either i'd have to use some generic crypto abstractions, or hack up the build system and unconditionally enable all the accepted crypto algos at build time to use them directly. it's only chacha and sha1 that are located among e.g. memcpy in lib/ and available uncoditionally. the rest
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:39:48 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947561 - I can see that; my thinking was not towards using sha1 but more towards permitting other-than-serpent mainly because 1. serpent is still snake-oil and only adopted-for-lack-of-better option afaik b. maybe tmsr makes its own hash function next year or something (ha!)
bvt: require more involvement.
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947578 << yeah, i will definitely test, including keccak (can pick c impl. for tests)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:42:27 mp_en_viaje: anyway, i suppose the logical next step is for the remarkably productive bvt to do some benchmarking re speed of possible candidates (a list including atm the chacha and serpent -- knowledgeable folk feel free to propose more candidates) so as to have some practical basis.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947565 << ty for offer, unfortunately something like this would be possible for me only in feb.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 06:31:20 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, mylord verschlimmbessert : how's the http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947499 notion sound ? either take a girl from home, have her do some nude work on the world's greatest beaches to spiffy up your blog illustration-wise ; or else i guess something can be provided locally.
BingoBoingo: bvt: I'm sure they can try to work something out aroung your schedule.
asciilifeform: hmm mp ddosated again ?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947675 << gauge nothing. glaringly absent from your alleged plan is the 200 hour / month time allocation for creating that demand, with clear by day of week scheduling. is it gonna be 8am to 5pm on tuesdays and 4pm to midnight on wednesdays or what ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 15:03:50 asciilifeform: for intervals of expansion : would also help if had any way to gauge demand. ( atm i have 1 ~maybe~ dulap-install being considered by diana_coman & mp. anyone else ? )
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947723 << imo 3% is already exaggerate. i'd be thinking more like a half percent, ideally.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 16:28:01 bvt: some thoughts: currently feeder app takes 3% CPU @ ~2.4 kb/s when feeding data into O through HG, because the bottleneck is in FG reading, and lots of overhead seems to be coming from retarded tty interface, which forces reading of individual bytes.
mp_en_viaje: so i guess that tty interface will have to be fixed ? or wtf ?!
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947731 << i do not believe this actually does anything. you can for the same money chant above the creampie, it'll do exactly as much.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 16:30:20 bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947556 << well, as long as selection procedure is rational, can always explain why have chosen this one and explicitly say that this is not an endorsement.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947743 << to olazy to look, maybe just shitty internets.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-22 18:29:18 asciilifeform: hmm mp ddosated again ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: not done w/ the 2nd set of numerics yet, but seems i may have ~opposite~ problem atm
asciilifeform: ( concretely : 4 'dulap'-style units , while (w/ mp_en_viaje-corrected set of constants) putting op +240 in +ev, in fact exhausts the energy allotment (not overruns, but leaves room only for rk plant.) and there already were requested, counting everyone who answered, tentatively 4 dulap's worth . (5 if counting shared-box) . )
asciilifeform: will detail this in rewritten piece .
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re those '200 hrs' , if there are actually 200hr/mo required for any part of this, i'ma have to hire ( BingoBoingo ?? ) an assistant. i dun have 200h/mo hidden up sleeve.
asciilifeform: and incidentally, if asciilifeform cannot actually supply the service mp_en_viaje needs (e.g. if he needs a 24/7 staff of 4 working in shifts ) would rather know about it sooner than later.
asciilifeform: ( 'do you expect me to...' 'no, mr. bond! we expect you to DIE!!!!'(tm)(r) )
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