spyked: good morning, #t! following up on the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915244 thread: I've started reviewing hunchentoot, the first step would be to figure out which code base to use as a starting point from the genesis.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 21:36 lobbes: http://www.thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html#selection-197.31-205.258 << I wager there's a good chance you'll publish a genesis of tbnl/hunchentoot before I eat through mod_lisp, but I agree: as pieces emerge, we can sync up, regrind as needed, etc.
spyked: *for the genesis
spyked: so far I've been looking at the project changelog and the patch history and the patches seem like a mixed bunch, with (perhaps) some useful things and breakage a la sslism. so before going further, I'd like to get some idea of what version of hunchentoot the lordship and the L2 are using
spyked: in particular, I saw trinque, phf and ben_vulpes have been using it in the past, so I'd appreciate any input you have on the matter
spyked: and I guess I'd prefer starting from code already battle-tested by L1 (in the form of a tarball + ksum?) rather than shithub, and turning _that_ into a genesis. although I suspect I'll have to dig deeper into the heathenpits of git commits anyway.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915245 <-- in other c coad, /me spent his last 2-3 weeks looking at the tcp stack implementation in linus' kernel. it is truly a fungus, macguyvered with duct tape and rubber bands, such that changing one line almost anywhere breaks shit all over the place.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 21:36 lobbes: As it stands I have two full pages of hand-written notes with various c and apache-stack likbez, and that was just so I could understand up to line 152 of https://github.com/mbattyani/mod_lisp/blob/master/mod_lisp2.c (only 900 or so lines left to eat). I most likely will publish these notes as a blog post once all is said and done
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 19:44 mp_en_viaje: spyked, some very sad http://trilema.com/2017/the-world-has-changed/ shit right there.
diana_coman: by now I suspect most code out there is the fungus sort as that's how things "naturally grow"
spyked: the weird part is that the linux tcp stack ~works~ for the most part. I imagine the maintainer of that particular subsystem must be a neckbeard with 20+y experience in tcp (because sure, it's not only the implementation, the protocol itself is a mountain of complexity)
spyked: and then looking at e.g. https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v3.10/source/Documentation/CodingStyle , one can readily notice that half or maybe more of the tcp code doesn't meet that minimum set of criteria. and yet... it's there. so, I guess re. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902966 he was prolly dumb from the very beginning
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 21:44 mircea_popescu: made slightly mroe interesting by it having been written before rather than after linus went dumb.
spyked bbl, cotton-bit-pickin
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916143 << [for some values of 'works'][https://archive.is/BPeGN] , lol.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 09:06 spyked: the weird part is that the linux tcp stack ~works~ for the most part. I imagine the maintainer of that particular subsystem must be a neckbeard with 20+y experience in tcp (because sure, it's not only the implementation, the protocol itself is a mountain of complexity)
asciilifeform: the usual megatonne-of-c-liquishit style of 'works'.
spyked: asciilifeform, sure. it's surprising that it works "for some values" even, imho. to illustrate: http://archive.is/9Ssvh#selection-71637.0-71641.16 <-- saucerful of barf
asciilifeform: spyked: not only is the implementation what it is, but tcp per se is massive pile o'shit, where it aint even possible to implement it w/out 9000 tonnes of state machine gnarl
asciilifeform: i vaguely suspect that it may have been the original usg-'standards committee'-powered explicitly-organized nobus generator
asciilifeform: the protocol is 'fractally retarded' -- i.e. broken on absolutely erry possible level. starting from where it takes exactly 1 trivially forged packet to close someone's connection, to where 'allcomers' get a substantial chunk of memory allocated , and make ddos trivial , to where it forces 9000x moar complicated design of routing gear, to... could continue but why.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-26 13:34 asciilifeform: tcp is evil, fundamentally because it violates the 'NEVER something-for-nothing-to-all-comers-FUCKOFFRANDOS' principle.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 14:31 asciilifeform: Framedragger: the problem with tcp isn't simply that enemy can insert an RST packet and make you blame your peer. (and whitelists do 0 against this.) but that it is very expensive , computationally, long before you have any idea who you're talking to.
asciilifeform: tcp shows erry possible sign of having been designed, from the start, to extend the ease of snoopage from traditional circuit-switched telco grid, to the packet world. consider e.g. the 'helpfully' plaintext sequence numbers.
asciilifeform: or how routers on erry hop of a connection are forced to maintain a 'circuit' state in memory, as if they were telco switches
BingoBoingo: And routers on network borders need the entire BGP table in RAM
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in alert readers, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2118&cpage=1#comment-19800
BingoBoingo: In other news, the Cafetera died. An autopsy will be performed.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wassat
BingoBoingo: The coffee maker
BingoBoingo: Replacement has been secured
BingoBoingo: However I am curious how the cheapest model on the local market failed.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: get a https://archive.is/UQmLg . cheap, and you'll never want 'machine coffee' after tasted from it.
BingoBoingo: And failed at month 11 of the 1 year guarantee
asciilifeform: + ~indestructible.
BingoBoingo: I need coffee in volume. ~10 cups minimum
asciilifeform: thing makes up in concentration what it loses in volume.
asciilifeform: can even pack 1:1 volumetric like the turks themselves do.
BingoBoingo: Sure, but that involves breaking a bunch of rather ingrained habits.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/huawei-document-deliveries-from-japan-via-fedex-routed-through-us-ieee-professional-association-cuts-ties-with-huawei-affiliated-persons-and-more/ << Qntra -- Huawei Document Deliveries From Japan Via Fedex Routed Through US, IEEE "Professional" Association Cuts Ties With Huawei Affiliated Persons, And More
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: s/owing/owning
BingoBoingo: ty, fxd
BingoBoingo: In other news, the flooding back home is approaching 1993 levels
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/protonmail-caught-cooperating-with-law-enforcement/ << Qntra -- ProtonMail Caught Cooperating With "Law Enforcement"
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916138 << this incidentally is as fine a measure of code quality as could ever be hoped for : DLC, "disentangled lines count", the number of lines which can be changed.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 08:51 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915245 <-- in other c coad, /me spent his last 2-3 weeks looking at the tcp stack implementation in linus' kernel. it is truly a fungus, macguyvered with duct tape and rubber bands, such that changing one line almost anywhere breaks shit all over the place.
mp_en_viaje: perhaps to be given as a ratio with loc, as 78/160k.
mp_en_viaje: meaning in a 160k lines of code, 78 can actually be edited.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 14:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916143 << [for some values of 'works'][https://archive.is/BPeGN] , lol.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 15:27 asciilifeform: tcp shows erry possible sign of having been designed, from the start, to extend the ease of snoopage from traditional circuit-switched telco grid, to the packet world. consider e.g. the 'helpfully' plaintext sequence numbers.
mp_en_viaje: being a common "private" email service recommended outside the republic > being a "private" email service commonly recommended outside the republic ?
mp_en_viaje: weasiling > weaseling
BingoBoingo: ty, fxd
BingoBoingo: In wankers "nuclear capacity operating in advanced economies would decline by two-thirds by 2040, from about 280GW in 2018 down to just over 90GW in 2040" << If the capacity is declining, they aren't "advanced economies" unless "advanced" means Africanizing
mp_en_viaje: get the fuck out of here. there will be 10 TW nuclear operational by 2040.
asciilifeform: noshit. but in ru/cn, so 'doesn't exist' from reich muppet pov.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: AHA, the catch is IEA doesn't count Russia, China, or India as "advanced economies"
mp_en_viaje: they're also not counting my dick going down their throat.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 23:34 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916147 << you're doing the anchors backwards.
mp_en_viaje: whatever, next best use for tennessee is the "accidental" re-routing of spent nuclear fuel packages.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it's not the first time!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916180 << direct or inverse proportion ? in e.g. ffa, the # of 'can be changed an' still work' is ~0
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 23:30 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916138 << this incidentally is as fine a measure of code quality as could ever be hoped for : DLC, "disentangled lines count", the number of lines which can be changed.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it will ~compile~ tho
asciilifeform: often enuff, won't. sorta half the appeal of ada
asciilifeform: broken proggy , more times than not , gets caught in compiler
mp_en_viaje: how shall i formalize the idea here...
mp_en_viaje: you familiar with this phenomenon when, when a change is required, good program needs 1 line touched and github program needs EVERY line touched ?
asciilifeform: dijkstra's 'spaghetti'
mp_en_viaje: right. that's what i mean re dlc
asciilifeform: then sure. d called it 'structured programming' (i.e. the craft of ~not~ writing a proggy like this)
mp_en_viaje: not sure how to formalize it, because obviously, "change" in general connotes hilary & her merry dnc
asciilifeform suspects that dijkstra would've enjoyed 'peh', where there aint even such a thing as a jump
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916188 << i find it riotously lulzy that anyone still can be found to fall for the 'seekrit email' flavour of scamola. srsly, wtf
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 23:45 mp_en_viaje: being a common "private" email service recommended outside the republic > being a "private" email service commonly recommended outside the republic ?
asciilifeform: how the fuck do they get marketed..? 'OUR promisejuice is 9000x moar truthy than $rival's' ?!
mp_en_viaje: experimentally, plentyone can still be found to fall for the "just the tip" flavour.
mp_en_viaje: evercunt's everbusy.
asciilifeform: still beggars belief. these imho are almost literally 'selling brooklyn bridge'.
asciilifeform: standing next to the 'seekrit email' people, e.g. the 'herbal viagra' pushers look honest. (at least viagra actually exists)
asciilifeform: and cock exists, and could, in principle, stand. whereas 'private email service' is a dry water, a square circle.
BingoBoingo: Well, here's hwo herbal viagra works. They get some dry herbal and spray with with viagra then put in capsules. Sell as "herbal viagra" far more honest than the seekrit scamola
asciilifeform: for instance.
BingoBoingo: Still, the Herbal and the viagra are there. The seekrit email doesn't have seekrit, and the email part is doubtful
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-clouds-that-threaten-domestic-bliss/ << Trilema -- The Clouds That Threaten Domestic Bliss