Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-12-22 | 2018-12-24 → ↓
mircea_popescu: the more i think about this whole serpent business, the more it becomes evident that the ~only~ way to have a cipher (not encryption, ie, asym keys, but enciphering, ie, simmetric keys) stronger than serpent is to ~mix rng bits~. ie, the weakest cipher is the one where len(E) = len(P), and they're all equally week, and 1 serpent worth. to go stronger, you must have something that has len(E) = a len(P) + b sorta thing. the key
mircea_popescu: schedule will then not merely "mix" the P bits but also explain how to separate the R bits out of E.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had thread, i suggested several algos for specifically this
asciilifeform: will dig it up after sleep
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, re ((123)) comments my plugin at least requires a space i.e. (( 123))
mircea_popescu: afaik it's space before so " ((" rather than simply "(("
mircea_popescu: in other news, there's apparently such a place as humble, texas.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-lesbian-in-winter/ << Trilema -- The lesbian in Winter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re the ciphers : it's the item asciilifeform regularly comes back to, iirc most recently in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1742198 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-14#1613906 , but also we did the luby variant of same, and iirc earliest discussion was the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589881 thing ( and mircea_popescu's various extensions of subj )
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 21:45 asciilifeform: anyway for 512bit key, you still keep the 128bit block. but each time you have incoming 128b plaintext, you shamir it rngistically into 512bits, i.e. 4 128b parcels that must be xor'd to reconstitute the original. each of these get ciphered with one of 4 independently-generated 128b keys.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-14 19:19 asciilifeform: specifically, for every byte you intend to send, you instead send two: x, y. which you generate by obtaining rng byte r, and payload byte b, and x := b xor r, y := r
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 01:03 asciilifeform: picture the following 1-dimensional automaton, that eats bitstring in sets of 2bits, and : '10' -> 'tape step left' ; '01' -> 'tape step right' ; '11' -> invert bit at current square; '00' -> terminate.
mircea_popescu: i guess that makes two of us.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, kinda in the vein of my algo hash thing. but honestly i'd prefer an algebraic form.
asciilifeform: it has strong smell of The Right Thing, but i cannot claim to have nailed down precisely how it oughta go, just yet.
asciilifeform: the simplest algebraic variant is shamir's split (which trivially nukes 'knownplaintextism'). but it introduces a usable relationship b/w plaintexts, which is The Wrong Thing, and is how i ended up with 'hmm automata?' etc
mircea_popescu: i think basically the point here is to summarize what was found. and that's specifically that a) there's no meaningful discussion of "better" or "worse" ciphers worth having when by "cipher" one understands "mixing in 0 entropy".
mircea_popescu: this is the fundamental cost here : EITHER have asymmetric keys, or ELSE leak entropy.
mircea_popescu: the gods demand a sacrifice.
asciilifeform: per shannon, ~all~ methods other than otp (i.e. where key is shorter than payload) 'leak entropy'. the q is just how much, and how to even quantify.
mircea_popescu: kinda states differently ye olde "ciphers are not worth having when encryption's available". IF you have rng to piss out, might as well find some primes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, the question of what % of the "entropy" leaked was entropic. obviously from chtulhu's pov your message's just as delicious entropy as any other.
mircea_popescu: give him some messages you don't care about, is the idea.
asciilifeform: important not to confound the shannon bit with the practical. sending a dozen rsagrams, for instance, 'leaks' (in the sense where it is not difficult to derive) the public mod; which contains (again, from shannon pov, obv. nobody knows how to extract it trivially) the private.
asciilifeform: currently nobody's got algo that doesn't do this (aside from the degenerate case of otp.)
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, if there's been any movement on that front since 1940s, nobody's talking.
asciilifeform: !#s trapdoor
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile over at the intelligent moron farms, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TvslL/?raw=true
asciilifeform: ( the mega-q, from asciilifeform's pov, is whether it is possible to make a bridge b/w shannon's result and the practical, i.e. to demonstrate a method where key is smaller than payload (i.e. not otp) but where the actual leakage of key bits per N message bits sent, can be ~quantified~ with upper bound. )
mircea_popescu: rather, where leakage of key bits can be ~geographically bound~.
mircea_popescu: if i get something like "only odd bits of key can be leaked" we've won.
asciilifeform: i'd be quite interested in ~any~ bound, aha
asciilifeform: currently nobody's got even that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right, it'sa 'all or nuffin' situation, if you prove 'only odd bits leak', all you gotta do is to make the key 2x long, and the even bits are your nonleaking key, etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why exactly ~is~ it that they 'I can't even read the whole subject line' ?
asciilifeform: the site dunwork on ipnoje or wat was it
mircea_popescu: nah, there's an iffy point there, "well.. so how does one get message out, guesses the odd bits you happened to use this time ?!" which is directly a rehash of http://trilema.com/2018/so-i-designed-a-block-chipher/ problem
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: obv 'key' is defined as 'the bits you actually need to get the payload out of the ciphertext', how else
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the innovation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-22#1882717 consists of the following bit of fighting the patriarchy and checking my privelage : IF their phone is insufficient, THEN reality will be truncated to fit.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-22 17:22 mircea_popescu: hey, "apple has had a homogenizing and sanitizing effect on '''the internet''' (ie, the special reservation for morons, retards and other debris finding its way the fuck out since 1993)."
mircea_popescu: recall how all those old browsers wrote the text out of bounds whenever there was more text than bounds ?
asciilifeform: ( and yes it is not difficult to come up with a 'write-only memory' that dun actually give you an openable box, lol )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: i find it at least a little surprising that popular heathen www dun display on pnoje, but whoknows, the 'state of the art' in wwwistic dysfunction is always 'advancing'
mircea_popescu: basically, it's supposed to be my problem that their shit's broken. because they live in the best possible world and everything else is rape or w/e, "not understanding the concept of bdsm"
asciilifeform: fwiw i have nfi what the shitlife authors were smoking; even asciilifeform's www ( and yes incl ~all~ the maffs ! ) displays on even the saddest pnoje
asciilifeform: and without horiz. scrolling.
mircea_popescu: i don't think you understand how pervasive this http://trilema.com/2017/little-miss-sunshine/ slash http://trilema.com/2016/vacation/ idiocy is.
mircea_popescu: THATS WHAT THE NINE STEPS ARE ALL ABOUT -- REFUSE TO LOSE!!!
asciilifeform: nah ~that~ part i think i get
asciilifeform: it's where the thing dun display on $nintendo, that's puzzling
asciilifeform: given as good % of the userbase is prolly known to be sitting on nintendos
asciilifeform: what was the author thinking ?
mircea_popescu: Ed Helms, Steve Carell, rando dork, they're all the same guy. lalala can't hear you.
asciilifeform teatime,brb
mircea_popescu: The woman even challenges him about it, in no uncertain terms : "you suck", she says, "you've got nothing", she says, "and you can't even admit it".
mircea_popescu: that's what they were thinking. all of them, from "cia" down to the last redditard.
asciilifeform: in largely unrelated lulz, apparently there exists 'radiochromic film', nifty thing with high res and 0 sensitivity to daylight, 0 photochem processing needed, instant photo. but then asciilifeform goes and tries to ~buy~ a pack, and lulz, picture, industrial catalogues with 10,000 items and ~no prices~, apparently thing is distributed entirely 'in wot'
asciilifeform: this kinda thing is normal, sadly, for heavy equipment, but this is the 1st time that i see it for an item in the disposability class of toilet paper
asciilifeform: 'fish is what we dunhave over at the fish counter!'
asciilifeform: trinque: deedbot ??
trinque: ty asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform Ashland Advanced Materials, Building N and Room 1102, 1005 US Hwy No 202/206, Bridgewater NJ 08807.
mircea_popescu: or you know, AdvancedMaterials@ashland.com. i'm sure they'll send you some.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yea that's what i ended up with on my chalkboard, earlier. will give it a shot the old-fashioned way.
asciilifeform: it's still imho weird that there's 0 retail channel. (ordinary film can be had by the megatonne, from 9000 places )
mircea_popescu: why ? almost no usecases.
asciilifeform: lotsa usecases. it's apparently used to calibrate cat scanner & similar machinery.
asciilifeform: ( in minutes, vs hours with ordinary film, no chem processing )
asciilifeform: 'ooda loop'
BingoBoingo: Aite, mp-wp woes are looking manageable
mircea_popescu: since we're on mp-wp woes : an hero to make mp-wp footnote system NEST would be appreciated. currently works only 1 level deep, maybe once each year or two gotta do lvl2 footnotes by hand.
feedbot: http://pizarroisp.net/2018/12/24/pizarro-update-december-23rd/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro Update December 23rd
← 2018-12-22 | 2018-12-24 → ↑
Random(trilema) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code