mircea_popescu: lobbes (and whoever might care, BingoBoingo asciilifeform ?) in re http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/sales-report-june-2018/#selection-171.12-175.51 : consider the bounty of the internets is indeed great. take for instance : http://www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-04.txt
mircea_popescu: actually... i suppose might as well get the whole pile archived
mircea_popescu: (as per the letter of the law, perfectly legitimate "business contacts" of everyone reading, seeing how you know the "requisite details" to distinguish ill-colored email from crown-blessed-color colored email.)
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, if anything says "african woman" better than http://archive.is/Sk6m9#selection-3443.0-3449.1 i wish to know what. because honestly...
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html << The Tar Pit - May-June 2018 Shithub SSH key harvest, data and preliminary analysis
spyked: ^ asciilifeform, this is all yours. let me know if there's anything I missed, the archive is in "phathub" format.
spyked: for the impatient: the download link for the data is at the bottom of the post.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832410 <-- ty phf! yeah, that works. though eventually it will be reground into a single tree, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818999
a111: Logged on 2018-07-06 23:40 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831298 << unless you have particular preferences, i'm going to throw it into the same patchset as ircbot. it'll follow the grand ircbot tradition of a genesis that never the less relies on the adjacent patches
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 22:14 mircea_popescu: afaik ben_vulpes made one and trinque the other or somesuch. in general, the cause for this is author1 thinks author2 is an idiot.
spyked: btw trinque, I'm getting back to trilemabot-works next week, so I can do the regrind after trilemabot part ii if that's too deep in your queue.
spyked: spoilers: trilemabot-ii will publish prefixed command handling for irc bots. since I'm not the first to implement this, I'll be eager to have curious eyes examining it once it's up.
spyked: and in log reviews: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-28#1830519 <-- I used to read that some years ago. the references to greek mythology aren't too terrible -- for a comic. otherwise same 'ol steampunk medieval romanticization.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-28 05:05 mircea_popescu: "A brief page with a few annotations about the Girl Genius web comic, for which a link banner appears to the right, is now on this site." holy shit that's terriblty drawn
asciilifeform: spyked: does the csv consist strictly of the rsa keys, or all of'em ? ( asciilifeform currently cannot use non-rsa keys for anyffing )
asciilifeform: aite, i'ma grab the tarball & see.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, megatonne of aol !
asciilifeform: spyked: the 'Not Found' keys are not necessarily spamological : many of the earlier items featured in http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-things-that-didnt-happen-today-heres-192-cracked-github-keys-some-hotties-in-tech-included-yes/ today return same eggog if you try to load'em from shithub
asciilifeform: seems to mean simply that key (not necessarily entire luser's acct) was deleted at some point.
asciilifeform: 'As per the figures above, there were only about 4.6 million RSA keys in existence on GitHub on the 1st of July 2018, as opposed to the approximately 6.9 million found by JuroV' << i suspect that the culprit is the massed usg thrust towards 'use ecdsa nao!'
spyked: asciilifeform, phathub file contains RSA e and N only. but that's a good point, should also post the other ones under some raw form.
spyked: well, e, N and metadata
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform butofcourse.
mircea_popescu: spyked the ~drawing~ is fucking terrible. and not merely terrible, but i can tell from its bruteforced stupidity exactly how the writing goes, because it's evident enough the same mind does both and how that sort of mind goes.
mircea_popescu: author should be whipped to death in public square, as far as i'm concerned ; and all others like him alongside.
asciilifeform: spyked: thx for the fodder, i've started up the converter.
mircea_popescu: imo the 6.9 -> 4.6 mn drop (ONE THIRD! in a coupla years!) is the news item of the month, year, whatever.
mircea_popescu: demographically worse than a ww1.
mircea_popescu: re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-149.0-153.220 : you should see the "easy to detect" over @ fetlife, fucktards have five dozen DIFFERENT failure modes, all of them ujust as "specifically laid out". bot code is 60% "handle inept error pages" by mass. so fucking evident it's the result of "incremental development", too.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 6.9 -> 4.6 was in re rsa strictly, unless i misread
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: "the drop was in re men only, they have neotenic children now to make up the difference". mmmkay ?
asciilifeform: so the lemmings moved to ec
mircea_popescu: they moved to sucking on my cock.
mircea_popescu: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-173.58-173.68 << the game they play is "growth velocity" and "user counts". so...
mircea_popescu: same thing on every other graham-andreessen shitweb "project" or w/e they call them, "leader blabla".
mircea_popescu: socialist capitalism all about dilution, inescapable fundament of the pile.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re "moved on to sucking my cock" : http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-185.0-189.0
mircea_popescu: ie, ~same distribution as in 2016.
asciilifeform: oh hah
asciilifeform: incidentally nao that shithub has been officially absorbed into microshit, i expect there will be a 'digg -> reddit'-style exodus of deps to some new 'designated opposition' snakepit. but dunno where this is, yet.
asciilifeform: *of derps
mircea_popescu: psssssh. i don't.
asciilifeform: possibly my head is stuck in 1990s.
asciilifeform: but historically they always make a 'opposition' snakepit, 'can of pepsi on the left' etc
mircea_popescu: imo this is well expired.
asciilifeform: possibly; i've nfi
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: btw you may find it interesting that some unknown % of shithub accts are commercial worker bees, thing is commonly used by small software corps in usa for storage
asciilifeform: luser count drop could easily be from simple unemployment
mircea_popescu: not really. thing is used by aspiring spam "companies" the world over to "build history" so they can become candidates for money laundering "acquisitions" later on.
mircea_popescu: it's a whole chumpatron, doing away with your social security & pension funds.
asciilifeform: ( and/or folx getting their shit together and moving their repo to actual box in-house )
mircea_popescu: if you wanna one day be groupon, best start "building evidence" today.
asciilifeform: well yes , that's what typical usa 'software co' ~does~
mircea_popescu: right. might as well use realistic terminology rather than their in-universe nonsensical wank.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, what i'm waiting for is you discovering there's ~1% NEW keys in that 4.6mn pile. after which we can simply declare github ie "technology" production in the empire dead and move on.
mircea_popescu transparently has about as much respect for the intellectual productions of north america as for the intellectual productions of the gabon republic.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/07/italian-government-working-on-exit-from-f-35-program/ << Qntra - Italian Government Working On Exit From F-35 Program
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw it wouldn't astonish me if 0 new keys.
mircea_popescu: in otherr lulz, chick tastes my steak, "Hey, this isn't steak tartare ; this is steak a la mode"
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832404 << my vtron doesn't include a vdiffer or a patch-applier. was this an oversight?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-06 23:13 trinque: shells out to patch, perhaps the intent there was to end up with an external patch util that understands vpatch hashes. esthlos, maybe shed light?
asciilifeform: 'my axe doesn't include a handle or blade, is this oversight' ?!
esthlos: well there is vtools for vdiff, right?
mircea_popescu: i am confused.
asciilifeform: looking again at his coad, seems like it simply calls out ( just like my vtron did ) to patch util
mircea_popescu: ok, but if he doesn't calculate hashes what's he do
esthlos: mircea_popescu: it matches hashes to build the dependency graph
mircea_popescu: to match them it must calculate them.
esthlos: they are already lying in the vpatch file though. what am I missing?
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would you trust some random number from a file.
mircea_popescu: you don't check seals, either ?
esthlos: well, file is signed
mircea_popescu: "is signed" or "i check the signatures" ?
esthlos: sigs are checked
mircea_popescu: and then the hashes aren't checked against the file updated prior to updating and the result after updating it ?
esthlos: that's correct
mircea_popescu: well yes, oversight.
esthlos feels demonstration of dumbness incoming...
esthlos: ok, I'll get on fixing that. sorry for trouble
mircea_popescu: and change how you think. the whole point of even having any of this is to have all of it.
mircea_popescu: if your hashes are unchecked, why bother with signatures ?
esthlos: ah wait, so sig is "I place my trust in this transformation", but I didn't check initial conditions, did I?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 15:31 mircea_popescu: ie, young brazillian chick WILL have to have her cooking checked for shit, because apparently wash hands is not universally comprehended in brazil.
mircea_popescu: esthlos exactly. for all you know a) you're applying patches on the wrong fileset, resulting in a broken / uncompilable pile
mircea_popescu: and b) you're applying "fuck you()" on the expectation it hashes as "pupcakes and soda cop"
esthlos: asciilifeform: this is 100% true. I need some adult supervision. kinda why I'm here
mircea_popescu: gotta check that the trusted (as established by sigs) transformation is applied on a) what it expects to be applied and b) the provided transformation ~actually matches~ the described transformation that was trusted.
trinque: is the task for esthlos here to produce a patch util that cares about hashes, or to build all patching functionality into the vtron ?
esthlos: additionally, before I make another mistake, does this warrant redoing the genesis (because original item is broken?), or a new patch?
mircea_popescu: esthlos genesis ~never needs redoing. it's a purely administrative decision, to regrind, dun sweat it.
mircea_popescu: just patch on it.
mircea_popescu: trinque the idea is to get a definitive item, does everything.
trinque: makes sense to me.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832542 << I'd be much obliged if you did, staying on cuntoo dev until done.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 11:40 spyked: btw trinque, I'm getting back to trilemabot-works next week, so I can do the regrind after trilemabot part ii if that's too deep in your queue.
mircea_popescu: now, shelling out to diff / patch is one thing (though somewhat iffy for reasons discussed in a long thread, which phf mostly fixed). but shelling out to hasher is no longer possible because keccak implementation isn't shell.
esthlos: so two things I see are: 1. what to do for hasher? somehow integrate phf's item into my vtron? 2. what do to for diff/patch? lisp McIlroy?
mircea_popescu: esthlos there's an eucrypt keccak you can either import (by patching off eucrypt) or copy over (as a different patch).
mircea_popescu: also, can integrate phf's code, same way
asciilifeform: in other noose, 4605938 spyked keyz going in starting nao.
mircea_popescu: inb4 4mn lines of pop :D
mircea_popescu: hey, gotta account for technological progress since 2014.
mircea_popescu: you know the joke ?
esthlos: judging by the vtree http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search=
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which
esthlos: sorry, eucrypt (bad enter)
mircea_popescu: guy goes to doctor, "doc, my wife is annoying". so doctor recommends warm compresses, to be placed on the annoying parts.
mircea_popescu: months pass, the two meet socially. "how goes ?" "i got divorced" "how come ?" "wife -- annoying" "but there's medical cures for that!" "oh, i tried warm compresses till i was black and blue from it" "no, not warm. cold."
mircea_popescu: "da fuck ? you told me warm ?!" "yes well... that was then. what, you think medical science made no progress in the interval ?"
mircea_popescu: esthlos what about it ?
esthlos: trying to figure out what patch I can base the press from to get keccak. seems like its eucrypt_keccak_birate_fix, but that pulls in the other components according to the graph
mircea_popescu: esthlos if you patch ~off~ of eucrypt your whole thing becomes a patchset.
esthlos: right. but are you suggesting to pull in all of eucrypt, including mpi, etc.?
mircea_popescu: i'm not suggesting either ; i'm just saying that you have two ways you could proceed. either identify among the code you wish to reuse a tree to nestle among, and then your vtron would be an eucrypt downstream item, or a phf vtron item or whatever you pick ;
mircea_popescu: or else you copy over the code you want to use into your own tree.
mircea_popescu: this has nothing to do with the particularls, not you, nor the project etc ; it's just how it goes, either way 1 or way 2.
esthlos: question for diana_coman then, is where to base press to get standalone keccak, as refenced: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/18/eucrypt-chapter-6-keccak-transformations/#selection-83.46-83.153
esthlos: if standalone is difficult due to eucrypt_keccak_bitrate_fix, then I'll plan to copy code
mircea_popescu: esthlos of course, if your whole thing is lisp, the utility of ada keccak may be limited ?
diana_coman: esthlos, you can compile it standalone but indeed because of the bitrate fix you'll need to patch all the way to that at least so getting everything in
diana_coman: alternatively you can press to ch9 and then add the fix on top I guess
diana_coman: esthlos, the fix is literally one line + test of the issue
esthlos: mircea_popescu: sbcl can call executables (shithub warning): https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/code/run-program.lisp
esthlos: but if it's desired for entire thing to be lisp, then yeah
diana_coman: it can't hurt to have a lisp implementation of keccak too imo
mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"
mircea_popescu: i ain't gonna make them for you, even if you turn out to suck at it.
esthlos: gah. hope I don't suck, then
diana_coman: esthlos, measure 10 times, cut once and esp... know why you chose whatever you chose
mircea_popescu: the above especially. whole thing works just like eulora price formation, gotta have some sort of reasoning to back you up.
mircea_popescu: then ~that reasoning~ becomes who you are, because it's what people evaluate.
mircea_popescu: it's the direct equivalent of a key, actually. if you regard a rsa key as "a succession of 2048 binary questions" to which one gives exactly correct answers ; then ~choices you make~ are ultimately the basis of identity.
mircea_popescu: "should #1477 [bit of privkey] be true or false ?" === "do i x or y in situation z"
esthlos: very interesting, thanks diana_coman and mircea_popescu
esthlos: I'm going to think of how to proceed and blog the reasoning
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/07/07/a-look-at-fraudball-the-terrible-spectator-sport/ << Bingo Blog - A Look At Fraudball, The Terrible Spectator Sport
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/07/scotland-yard-facial-recognition-trial-produced-no-arrests/ << Qntra - Scotland Yard: Facial Recognition Trial Produced No Arrests
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/07/newspaper-in-burkina-faso-heralds-african-victory-of-french-national-soccer-team/ << Qntra - Newspaper In Burkina Faso Heralds African Victory Of French National Soccer Team
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: somewhat surprisingly, eater is 1059370 keyz into the spyked parcel, and result is 1059878 new mods ( i.e. avg of >1 per ! )
asciilifeform: ( about 3.5 mil keyz left to eat )
asciilifeform: rate of eater is ~150/s
asciilifeform: this means, output can be expected tomorrow night.
asciilifeform: what this also means, as i understand, is that there are some lusers with >1 mod .
asciilifeform: or hm, nm, it's an artifact of the phuctor stats cache mechanism.
asciilifeform: there cannot actually be >1 mod from 1 line of the input csv.
mircea_popescu: does it actually dedupe ?
asciilifeform: it does.
asciilifeform: bernsteinization dunwork if you dun dedupe.
asciilifeform: ( keys with dupe mods get processed correctly, they are addressable as distinct keys but mods are references to a mods table, and dupes get marked as dupes. bernsteintron works on deduped mods table. )
mircea_popescu: i must say this is shocking.
mircea_popescu: so ~all~ keys got replaced since 2015 ?!
asciilifeform: dunno re 'all', but so far seems that most -- did
asciilifeform: tomorrow will have exact number.
mircea_popescu: 100% of 1/4 of the lot... nuts.
mircea_popescu: consider, he walks a historical table.
mircea_popescu: fifo, so these'd be the old ones ?
asciilifeform: iirc they're alphabetic.
mircea_popescu: i thought he went by account id which is a counter
asciilifeform: hm, nfi then
mircea_popescu: in other such, trilema the most read it's ever been
mircea_popescu: (mostly because -- rape and bdsm article)
asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform was reading http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832679 and wondered why they wrote 'Rușia' then finally realized that it was a gnat stuck to asciilifeform's display !
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 20:09 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/brokola-nuff-said/ << Trilema - Brokola. 'Nuff said.
mircea_popescu: i didn't realise there's disadvantages to a gnat system
asciilifeform: hey, recall how background 5k radio hum of the universe was found.
asciilifeform: in yet-other lulz, we have our first idjit with ~current~ key that sits down straight on an old popped mod : http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/391BBDCC87CBADA0F891176D9D45D80B7D5D076E4551151F42B104B717F5E449
asciilifeform: ( i'm almost surprised there ain't more )
asciilifeform: ( these, as alert reader prolly realizes, signal immediately, they do not require bernsteinization to find )
BingoBoingo: The latest news out of Venezuela is that the Maid won't reliably show up to work because Maduro is handing out free food, and what's the point of working when there's food handouts
mircea_popescu: and what's the point of not shooting said maid needn't be answered because maid-council established "you couldn't do that", and what maid council establishes fucking goes, or what.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832417 << so far only one patch is using keccak, the new patches that came out are all sha512 and none of the existing projects attempted a regrind
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 01:20 mircea_popescu: phf define slow adoption!!
phf: now the reason i kept the branches separate is because i was expecting a rapid switch to keccak as soon as one's available, so the need to deal with sha patches would've been rare. that's not the case, and i want to have similar functionality available for both sha and keccak until there's no more active sha patches in the wild.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and what's the point of not shooting said maid needn't be answered because maid-council established "you couldn't do that", and what maid council establishes fucking goes, or what. << Plan seems to be fuck off and leave confused maid and maid council behind
mircea_popescu: producing ~nation of africa
BingoBoingo: But I did suggest "Why is she still a maid"
phf: i've been using vpatch/vdiff without full blown v, because i can order the patches by hand (and there's now an explicit ordering provided by manifest), and vpatch verifies the hashes for me. it would be handy if i could also press existing sha patches with `vpatch -a sha` or whatever
mircea_popescu: or if we actually took ourselves seriously enough to get rid of the dumb shit.
asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp why hasher gotta be hardwired into the vtron. what's the point of even having a shell if not for pluggable items like hash.
asciilifeform: as for keccak, util oughta take a bitness arg ( sorta half the win from keccak, is that you can demand e.g. kilobit hash output )
asciilifeform: in other noose, 1807113 keyz swallowed, containing 1646811 new mods.
phf: esthlos: your v_genesis patch is broken, http://btcbase.org/patches/v_genesis/file "contact" etc.
phf: +++ b/Makefile 2018-06-07 21:23:51.000000000 -0400 1081b49742... etc.
asciilifeform: ugh did he manage to dig up a pre-timestampremoval vdiff.sh ?!
phf: asciilifeform: well, that would be one of the reasons why "hasher gotta be hardwired". vtools give you hard guarantees about the format of the patch, the state of the press, that can actually be manipulated outside of unix soup
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then you end up with hash state machine, and with "oh, this x hash item matches that y hash" lulz and etc.
mircea_popescu: what ~i~ don't understand is why every, ~EVERY~ design decision gotta be re-argued again, soviets style, with every fucking implementation every single time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no state machine, just expectation that machine has e.g. 'keccac1024' util on it
mircea_popescu: "and this, ivan ivanovich, is why bricks are this long and this wide. notwithstanding what your fucking wall needs iyo"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do you know what hash patch x is hashed in ?
asciilifeform: would say, e.g., +++ b/fg.ucf keccak512 2e1120e28077b4fc31bc2de704cba9591daad2e4193737cf911a0dd49d4731843cc9fb9c3595f65c9e1bdf6a13d2d41011552de688cff10a7074ace6827cc37f
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu even wrote 'standardization is great, but where unnecessary, harmful'
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is the ~use~ of more than one hash ?
mircea_popescu: so that i gotta mandate every vtron implements 500 hashers ?
asciilifeform: aside from old-stuff-we're-doomed-to-regrind-for-new-vtron-anyway, largely in the keccak win of being able to emit arbitrarily long hash
mircea_popescu: the whole discussion went 1. there can only be one ; 2. sure as fuck won't be hitler's ; 3. pick something
mircea_popescu: keccak came out of that. it's all in the logs.
mircea_popescu: the advantage of keccak for this application is tghat it ~intakes~ arbitrary lengthj
mircea_popescu: not that it outputs arbitrary length.
mircea_popescu: hitlerhashes block.
asciilifeform: all known hashers eat arbitrary length, just multiples of n
mircea_popescu: keccak does not.
asciilifeform: keccak is able to eat ~and shit~ arbitrary bitness.
mircea_popescu: keccak eats n=1 arbitrary length.
asciilifeform: ( admitting , however, asciilifeform does not know of any proof that the longer keccaks are actually stronger )
asciilifeform: and yes, i like it largely because not crowned by hitler. ( tho admittedly there is no way to prove the negative of hitlerian authorship for it, the author set of it iirc intersects with that of aes , which ~was~ crowned )
asciilifeform: ability to use variant hashers in v would seem to go with the nonspecificity-of-diddling philosophy tho.
mircea_popescu: in the sense turret-pistol would.
mircea_popescu: if you have many hashes a) you won't have them all properly supported ever ; b) nobody's going to have multi-implementations for most of it.
mircea_popescu: if you have one, everyone can use their own homebrew keccak see if it works.
asciilifeform: i expect that errybody currently tuned in, will use keccak.
mircea_popescu: now, politically i was going to take a soft approach to it, but since phf decided to make a challenge out of it for no reason i can imagine, what can i say, let's make it a big deal.
asciilifeform: i can see mircea_popescu's arg for gluing it in. but why 512b.
mircea_popescu: i couldn't care less what size. it'll have to be something, and whoever makes it makes it.
mircea_popescu: (ftr, turret pistol actually existed -- borne out of that "supporter of creativity" that's ustardian "intellectual property" laws. worked as well as anything the socialists ever sired ever worked.)
asciilifeform: which pistol was this
asciilifeform: horizontal revolver ?!
asciilifeform: alignment is problematic enuff in ordinary nagant. picture this horror.
mircea_popescu: habitually row-fired
mircea_popescu: (yes, including the round facing operator)
asciilifeform: horizontal ~drums~ work ok, as in rpd ( https://topwar.ru/14415-degtyarev-pehotnyy-pulemetu-dp-85-let.html ) , but these had a bolt & extractor
asciilifeform: http://www.horstheld.com/0-Cochran.htm << mircea_popescu's item. hilarious, who the fuck would fire this.
mircea_popescu: men. that's why the species has males, so they attempt to raise cichlids, rear children, fire turret pistols, go to the moon...
asciilifeform: granted, early cannon was nearly as lethal to the artillerist as to enemy. but that was state of art in 1500. turret pistol seems like a step back..
mircea_popescu: it existed because cold had the "patent" on other kind of revolver.
asciilifeform: such usa !
asciilifeform: this kind of thing is alive & well today, in pharma biznis, which asciilifeform had the misfortune of being involved in.
mircea_popescu: (and if anyone's curious why the cichlids are such a big deal pantsuit item -- brooding habits, every individual of either gender does ~nothing all day besides "helping" the young, by which they also mean adolescents)
asciilifeform: 'why is this methyl group here' '...patent'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since we're doing weird guns, i guess pucker gatling also worth a mention
mircea_popescu: (exactly as it sounds, 1700s musket-machinegun attempt. didn't work so well)
asciilifeform: gatling actually got a fairly successful second life, in vietnam ( and to present day )
mircea_popescu: yes but that was more 1800s. century does a lot for machining.
mircea_popescu: www.historic-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/the-puckle-gun.jpg << item
asciilifeform: repeating fire for 'hosedown' is alluring temptation, recall the quite sad and underpowered chinese multishot arbalest
phf: flintlock was a bitch
asciilifeform: ( iirc they had it on official issue well into 19th c ! )
asciilifeform: http://kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Chinese-Repeating-Crossbow-705x230.jpg << subj
asciilifeform: iirc did 0 against even lightly armoured target.
asciilifeform: but perhaps it sufficed as 'police arm'
asciilifeform: ( euro-style cranked arbalest, somewhat interestingly, had ~same penetration as musket )
mircea_popescu: does look like the chinos stole a hellenistic item.
deedbot: accepted: 1
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 04:26 mircea_popescu: actually... i suppose might as well get the whole pile archived
mircea_popescu: the internet's the most fertile plain yet known.