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shinohai: But mah vegemite
mod6: mornin'
shinohai: morning mircea_popescu, mod6
mod6: :]
mircea_popescu: sooo i just spent 12 minutes writing and 28 minutes hunting for an article ;/
mod6: you were looking for a trilema article?
asciilifeform back from the calculation mines, and regrets to inform that he does not have the juice with which to power a year of BingoBoingotron , and will not be submitting bid, unless someone l1 ( phf? ) were to want to co-own.
mod6: Any thoughts on what this 1 year cost would be?
mircea_popescu: mod6 sadly, yes.
asciilifeform: mod6: i was about to expand
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform explaining the thought process in detail will prolly be useful.
asciilifeform: grr there's a missing param,
asciilifeform: i'ma substitute in 350 for the hostel cost, iirc it was close to this
mircea_popescu: lol, the man that hates writing articles on his blog.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck mess of reference will this be in the future ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo himself costs 311(desk) + 350(hostel) + 600(food) per mo; his rack : 2834.06 ; total ~4096 (nice an' round!11) to stay above waterline ( all units above in heathenbux )
asciilifeform: now the cost of filling 12 rack slots with as much cpu horse as they can hold, (using asciilifeform's method, rather than mircea_popescu's, if not clear from context) would be such : 32 cores of opteron @ 3GHz, 256GB ram, 1TB durable ssd, comes to 1600 per 1U machine; no more than 4 machines can travel in a cargo carried by a 1300 two-way ticket
mircea_popescu: sure they can. you can have the whole thing shipped there in one go.
asciilifeform: then will get taxed neh
mircea_popescu: you just have to plan for it.
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: but if you notice memory is 60% of the price and ~nobody knows wtf is going on... you get taxed on a third at most.
mircea_popescu: then again, this does require competent rather than bumbling courriering, so i suppose ima let it rest.
asciilifeform: let's suppose for gedankenexperiment that i could borrow mircea_popescu's nazi submarine and ship'em in duty-free. that still leaves 12*1600 == 19200 heathenbuxxorz for basic vps ( rented, presumably , to heathens, who will somehow agree to part with coin? but this is separate thread..)
mircea_popescu: well, i was going to take five for myself ; and was willing to even pay for them.
mircea_popescu: and yes i pay in coin, if that wasn't by nao obvious >:)
asciilifeform: right, mircea_popescu even already commissioned 3, they are right here
asciilifeform: and paid 100%
asciilifeform: 12 incidentally is arbitrary number, they could just as readily be installed 'on-demand', N machines at a time (where N is determined by the type of transportation used)
asciilifeform: so upstack : to keep the system floating, the client base would ( at current heathenbux rate ) have to supply no less than half a btc per mo of revenue
asciilifeform: ( to power the system with said btc, at the very minimum BingoBoingo will need bank acct , but this is possibly yet another subthread )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo , et al : have i missed anything obvious here ?
mircea_popescu: i think your numbers are within a x2 / x.5 ballpark, which is about where it's been for a while. proceed.
asciilifeform: briefly upstack to : it matters 'a third' ~of what~ . if it's of the 15k list price of the box when it was new ( asciilifeform would be using the type of machines previously prepared for mircea_popescu , they are THE most economical in re bux:horsepower ) then it comes to quite a sum
a111: Logged on 2018-02-12 15:57 mircea_popescu: but if you notice memory is 60% of the price and ~nobody knows wtf is going on... you get taxed on a third at most.
asciilifeform: i do not know how the south amer monkeys do their taxation, if it's anything like how the british taxed FUCKGOATS...
asciilifeform: not being able to nail down that param makes all of my engineering whiskers stand on end
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude, you're talking around the point. the scam is simple enough : here mr taxman, is a box, of chassis motherboard cpu.
asciilifeform: because it's potentially a 4, or even 5-fold markup
mircea_popescu: 22% of $400 here yo ugo.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: of the 400 that it costs among sane people, or the 6000 that it costs in monkeylandia, is the (potential) problem
asciilifeform: fwiw i do not know the answer, and therefore assume the worst
mircea_popescu: no, you have paperwork.
mircea_popescu: "here are the numbers written down". that's how this goes.
asciilifeform: let's suppose this works. ( already supposed in the 'submarine' example.)
asciilifeform: simply noting that if this supposition is mistaken, it is a quite expensive 'surprise', would easily dwarf the cost of everything else summed.
asciilifeform: esp if the border monkeys decide to help themselves to some iron.
mircea_popescu: yes, if one day the gauls invade you will discover business is not something that can be done.
asciilifeform: this also.
mircea_popescu: this is similarily true of your current situation, or any other. also, meteorites.
asciilifeform: well this is moar flood than meteorite, but yes.
asciilifeform: ( we already have FG customers on the record as having paid similar amt for border taxes as for device itself )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo , et al : have i missed anything obvious here ? << The deal with mircea_popescu was mircea_popescu bankrolls BingoBoingo builds isp for BingoBoingo with mircea_popescu as honored investor. For asciilifeform or whoever else may take an interest in taking over, the deal that interests me is BingoBoingo remains in Montevideo to help asciilifeform/alfteam/etc build themselves an isp taking clear
BingoBoingo: instructions. BingoBoingo is offered some sort of incentive structure to remain in Montevideo for more time as hired hand rather than equity figure. On the plus side for alf, if he brings his own foreign corp with bank he has vehicle for making payments.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can pay the rack vendor already. the issue is your own food.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you would have to come up with a method ( i don't particularly care what kind ) for converting the coinz to food.
asciilifeform: as i understand this is not yet a solved problem.
mircea_popescu: so would it be fair to say that 24 hours of produced absolutely nothing useful, and you find yourself for the "calculation" at the exact same position you'd have been without it ?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-11 16:34 asciilifeform is not asleep, but in fact still calculating whether he has enuff fuel to take, theoretically, BingoBoingo's rocket to orbit, or only to make larger crater on the ground
mircea_popescu has long suspected meditation is not nearly as useful as practitioners credit it to be. like is the case with all arts.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'useful' output is 'i dun have this money'
asciilifeform: what did you expect it to be ?
mircea_popescu: an actual rational process ?
mircea_popescu: your output is not "i don';t have the money", read above.
asciilifeform: if 'what's x, and what's y, and turns out x > y' is not a rational process, than apparently i do not know what is.
mircea_popescu: we agree!
mircea_popescu: that was a fabulous bit of JIT channeling btw! i'm finally fucking done with this monster article.
asciilifeform: the other item -- and asciilifeform scours the logs, and finds nuffin -- is whether BingoBoingo ( or anybody tuned in ) at any point had any concrete idea of to whom (other than l1) to market the vps product, and how.
mircea_popescu: wasn't really considered, no.
mircea_popescu: and besides, there's not even software to do it with.
asciilifeform: i for instance do not buy vps. and so not in a position to say who does, or how to persuade'em to part with precious coinz.
mircea_popescu: unless, of course, you download cpanel :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd have to be xen
asciilifeform: afaik nothing else is known to reliably work.
mircea_popescu: whatever it'd be, i can promise you a) it does not work out of the box and b) you will want >25 years to fix it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i've deployed it in past life.
mircea_popescu: i'm just making an educated guess.
mircea_popescu: that's the skill involved here : reality consists of endless matrices, that for any practical purpose have to be heuristically collapsed, as they can't actually be calculated.
asciilifeform: entirely troo.
mircea_popescu: which is why the deductive-rational process is actually irrational.
asciilifeform: but contrary to mircea_popescu's intuitions, the cpu slicing is not the hardest puzzle piece.
mircea_popescu: ram isolation is the ~only concern. of couse.
mircea_popescu: "if mp built his back-to-back toilet, how could you ~using software only, mind!~ ensure the piss of his slavegirls doesn't mix ?"
asciilifeform: well, one way :
asciilifeform: let's also mention for completeness the cost-competitive alternative to vps : the use of miniature machines ( e.g. apu1 ) . but this involves manual shuffling on the part of hands ( BingoBoingo ) for every new customer.
asciilifeform: the upside is memory isolation.
mircea_popescu: why ? you could just have them live all the time.
mircea_popescu: the problemis not that -- the problem is he got less ips for a whole rack than i have for single machines.
asciilifeform: this is true: could, and could even have'em netboot
asciilifeform: i built (with several other people) a system like this, in past life, it was used for crapware analysis
asciilifeform: rack full of dick^H^Hskless blades, booted via lan for every shot.
mircea_popescu: yes, i agree it is a very sad reality that everyone seems to be playing catch-up with the absolute minimum bar of "marginally retarded" rather than creating novel and interesting things.
mircea_popescu: but this is a self-inflicted misery. do not take the republic seriously, get what you get for it.
mircea_popescu: the all-corruptor cares little for one's declared allegiances.
asciilifeform: iirc there was a (lizard-declared) 'ipv4 shortage' that supposedly accounted for what-mp-got vs what-BB-got
mircea_popescu: i suppose.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Have you looked at the LACNIC IP allotment application and requirements yet?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i did, and walked away moar puzzled than before. for instance, why is it impossible to buy ips secondhand ? ( is it ? )
asciilifeform: why do you have to deal with the idiots.
asciilifeform: 'On 10 June 2014, LACNIC announced that it had reached one /10 block of remaining addresses and IPv4 can now be considered exhausted in its service region. LACNIC will continue to distribute IPv4 addresses, but at a greatly reduced rate according to policies developed by the LACNIC community.'
mircea_popescu never applied to "authorities", nor would. because why the fuck.
asciilifeform: seems like fish is what they dun have over at this-here fish counter.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that said there's nothing wrong with applying for some, as a political choice.
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER, the result of that isn't taken as "this is reality". the result of that is judged and its shortcomings fixed.
asciilifeform: !#s from:BingoBoingo LACNIC
a111: 14 results for "from:BingoBoingo LACNIC",
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you can add that to the list, by the way. a tendency to take what you hear as "what is" dun work irl! you know what i mean ? just cuz some chick said it from behind a desk dun make it worth two shits.
BingoBoingo: I will add it to the list of shortcomings.
deedbot: << Trilema - The negotiations of terms
mircea_popescu realises this is possibly the worst bait and switch ever. but i swear, unintentional!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in today's late breakfast suggestions, leberwurst geraucht with green olives on homemade bread, and a sizable helping oh holsteiner fasskraut on the side.
mircea_popescu: PREUSSENS GLORIA!1!!
mircea_popescu: well, since btcvixen is sticking around, let's gift it for great justice.
ben_vulpes: something is seriously awry in that head.
mircea_popescu: just the usual delusions of immortality.
mircea_popescu: got all the time in the world, consequently the capital cost of wasted time is 0, consequently it is "worth it" to defend any nonsense beyond any possible limit. "eventually" (ie at t->inf) they will be proven wrong, and consequently the value of their eventual (at t -> inf) castle will be that much greater.
mircea_popescu: you follow the logic or should i delve ?
ben_vulpes: i don't follow the logic behind the valuation of the castle at t->inf. once proven wrong, whatever bastion was defended is overrun and so worthless.
ben_vulpes: thing is proven to be worth 0 in the future after much self delusion, rather than 0 now.
mircea_popescu: let's model it thusly. in the mmorpg called "life" the rules say there's two phases. phase a, where you figure out how to build a castle, and out of what, and so on. and phase b, where you sit in that castle and get GOODSTUFF, function of how well it was made. say fame or esteem or communication with god^H^H^H resplenduminous etcetera.
mircea_popescu: think of it as a tower defense game, cuz it's exactly the only model the imbecile spawn of esltarded women even have. that's ALL the business, strategy, everything.
mircea_popescu: now then. if phase a takes a time, and phase b takes another time, then you have a value function implicit.
mircea_popescu: because there's a list of possible questions organised in a question tree ("should i figure out glass or metal ? if i figure out metal, should i figure out sheets or rails ? and so on ad infinitum) it soon becomes apparent that no, it very much isn't worth it to evaluate arbitrarily complex ice sculptures for their possible fit to be used in castlemaking.
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER! because a+b summing to something finite implies mortality, which is to say, that the almighty narcissist anal child eventually ends, and what's worse, the film he blessed with his heroic centrality ends with him... it THEREFORE FOLLOWS a must be infinite.
mircea_popescu: something in the vein of "1. people dying is something too harsh for [my meagre powers] to consider ; 2. if something is hard it is ok to not do it ; 3. things that are not thought of do not properly speaking exist. therefore from 1-2-3 we have proven a is infinite".
mircea_popescu: however, the distortion this wreaks is that if a indeed were infinite, since the possible value of any possible configuration is always epsilon rather than zero, it is suddenly apparently worth it to consider that "well, maybe if the ice state is in the shape of the Pantsuited Abominartion herself, then IT WILL WORK?!?!?!".
mircea_popescu: and so there it is, waiting to have its idiocy proven wrong to itself at an arbitrarily strong standard. because who the hell knowns what it could miss out if indeed it WERE a woman, somehow.
asciilifeform: seems to me like mircea_popescu described an ideal miser, who hoards forever 'for later' and dies on a mattress fulla benjies, rather than 'neet' redditus
mircea_popescu: in spite of all overwhelming evidence. because who knows, right ? science hasn't discovered everything, and it has all the time in the world!
mircea_popescu: rather similarily to how the "human life is worth more than what mp would pay to fuck the item chained to a wall" leads to impossibility (not difficulty -- outright impossibility) of allocating healthcare dollars, just so...
mircea_popescu: a deeply felt notion that death's too harsh to properly speaking exist results necessarily in wasting one's life.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite so. except what's hoarded here is the pennies of "correctness", and what's foolishly thrown away is the pounds sterling of hours and minutes.
asciilifeform: somehow i knew mircea_popescu would say this!
asciilifeform thickens the weights in his mircea_popescutronic neuralnetwork, it hath done well
ben_vulpes: subject of correctness, /me has been using "hugs" in place of "shit people from shithole countries". the lefty brainfry this induces is spectacularly hilarious; "i know you're using good words to mean bad things but but but!"
ben_vulpes: usg cops slowly cottoning on to the fragility of their position: "death toll could have been much higher", also garage countermeasures finally gaining traction among le resistance; dood lit fires inside the house i imagine to foil the IR cameras
ben_vulpes: it's so pleasing to watch all of these golden toilet tekmologies fall to basic 'wasp'tech.
mircea_popescu: hey, good thing it was in here years ago, that way they could digest it in time for 2018!
ben_vulpes: log lag, such hysteresis. next up: "gps no longer a thing anywhere usg assets are walking around outside of their bunkers"
lobbes: << this thread puts much in perspective. In all my arguments with socialist aquaintances, it always seems like it boils down to "well, if there's failure that just means we haven't tried xyz magical configuration of policies yet!". I.e. "goal posts" can be moved ad infinitum (in their eyes, that is)
a111: Logged on 2018-02-12 19:36 mircea_popescu: in spite of all overwhelming evidence. because who knows, right ? science hasn't discovered everything, and it has all the time in the world!
shinohai: <<< Duterte trumps Trump, "Shoot 'em in the pussy"
mircea_popescu: did we already do the "la resistance" thing or notyet ?
a111: Logged on 2016-01-14 01:40 mircea_popescu: funny how nobody in france and generally in the "nordic model" train of euro-socialistoid train wants to remember how, by and large, french society was either supportive or indifferent of the nazis, and how "la resistance" maps almost exactly on what today would be "extreme righyt wing extremism", and how de gaulle, the exact equivalent of say arafat, got to re-write history into some delusional "all france stood behin
mircea_popescu: lobbes no i just meant resistance is feminine in french
ben_vulpes: girl just pointed out to me that the illustrator of curious george and the bunny didn't let slip a single opportunity to draw a pink little bunny butthole
BingoBoingo: << Another option with these in mind involves alf not feeding BingoBoingo indefinitely as an expense, considers locating self here after a visit to take the temperature of the monkeys.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-12 16:26 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can pay the rack vendor already. the issue is your own food.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-12 16:43 asciilifeform: let's also mention for completeness the cost-competitive alternative to vps : the use of miniature machines ( e.g. apu1 ) . but this involves manual shuffling on the part of hands ( BingoBoingo ) for every new customer.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for sake of argument -- suppose i were to take your place. i would then have exactly same problem.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, if you have foreign corp and are presumably feeding self and pet instead of self, pet, and bingo
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The Tamara chick does respond to cold emails, can give you the run down of the foreign corp free zone deal.
asciilifeform unfortunately is not in a position to relocate to unterraformed shithole .
asciilifeform: otherwise , think, would have already been there, and BingoBoingo would not have had the grenade to fall on to begin with.
asciilifeform bbl,meat
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 8902.9, vol: 15050.74309679 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 8897.0, vol: 51352.4650202 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 8884.5, vol: 7916.24617432 | Volume-weighted last average: 8896.86337773
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo soo, you're buying your ticket wednesday or what was it ?
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