mircea_popescu: in other news, toto u curtu croaked last week.
mircea_popescu: easily most accomplished troll of the 90s, gave the (mostly italian speaking) redditards hives.
asciilifeform: can haz link to example ?
mircea_popescu: example what ?
asciilifeform never seen
mircea_popescu: !~google falcone bombing
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Giovanni Falcone - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Falcone>; Capaci bombing - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capaci_bombing>; Mafia's murder of Giovanni Falcone : Duty, danger and courage ...: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DFXZzCQ4_6hA>
asciilifeform: the troll ?
mircea_popescu: !~google toto riina
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Salvatore Riina - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Riina>; 'He killed all his rivals': Totò Riina , Sicilian mafia's 'boss of bosses ...: <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/17/toto-riina-sicilian-mafia-boss-of-bosses-dies-cosa-nostra-italy>; Toto Riina , Mafia 'boss of bosses', dies in jail aged 87 - BBC News: <http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42022142
asciilifeform: 'was serving 26 life sentences' << lel
mircea_popescu: was also "on the run" for 23 years while living at home and getting public health subsidies.
mircea_popescu: was the lulziest moment, at "trial" when wediditreddit discovered that.. .well...
asciilifeform: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42141943 << from same rag, 'Danish court extends girl's jail sentence for terror plot'
mircea_popescu: check that out.
BingoBoingo: Oh my
mircea_popescu: instead of all this focus on how to x without money
mircea_popescu: HOW ABOUT MAKING SOME FUCKING MONEY.
BingoBoingo: Well, what was middle tramp doing?
BingoBoingo: Middle tramp was doing what the redditots will be doing in their 40's
asciilifeform: where's a hobo, incidentally, to keep money? up his arse ?
BingoBoingo: AHA, the prison wallet
asciilifeform: i suspect that the last jailbird whose starfish wasn't regularly inspected, was herr goring
asciilifeform: hobo will regularly lose his worldly goodz, but nobody can take his 'knowing how to x without money', i suspect is the idea.
BingoBoingo: Nah, probably gotta go further back in history
asciilifeform: and yes he could go and make money but then risks ending up as a programmer and whining about shitty kvms and no moar wall to hang lcd etc
BingoBoingo: To HNNNGNUNG the proto-startfish 3.5 billion years ago, arrested for being delicious
asciilifeform: back to mr hobo, asciilifeform wonders how much of the peculiar landscape of poorfaggistan is made up of the fact that in many ways to have ~a little~ money is worse than to habitually have none at all
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh, even ru peasant knew enough of how world works to bury.
mircea_popescu: modern hobo is not intellectually qualified to live in 1600s. because if he did, he'd have had to be pirate.
mircea_popescu: in other "run moar js/webkit" lulz, https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/256-targetblank---the-most-underestimated-vulnerability-ever/
BingoBoingo: Ah, Trilema reread on attention whore culture of the hour http://trilema.com/2013/rape-is-fun-or-lets-fuck-up-adria-richards/
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743529 <- I suspect they don't afford it basically; and related, from the world that once (long time ago) was: http://www.dianacoman.com/blog/2017/06/26/democratie-cu-pantaloni-fara-pantaloni-mai-mult-fara/
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 04:19 mircea_popescu: do you know there is not.one.single.shop selling pure natural fiber shirts in all of costa rica ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman exactly true, they don't.
mircea_popescu: the part where they thing ~this is okay~ though, is the problem. peasant of today, polyester, peasant of 1800, linen, then when usg says "progress" they all stand up and clap like trained seals.
mircea_popescu: exactly a rehash of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743513 which is itself exactly a rehash of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-29#1531002 and of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569609 and of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523091 and so on.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 03:39 mircea_popescu: somehow if the usg website comes up with "it's illegal to smoke", they stop smoking, AS FUCKING IF. whereas when the republic orders, they "have options".
a111: Logged on 2016-08-29 13:16 mircea_popescu: take the general "entrepreneur", take paul biggar as a much better example. the kid is definitely intelligent. he wants to be an entrepreneur. which is a word, which has a meaning. he proceeds to usianize. this FAILS TO DELIVER, but a decade later he is STILL doing it. and apparently hasn't noticed ANYTHING about any of this. why not ?
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 12:53 mircea_popescu: jurov the problem is one of optics. you have not "seen paying" anyone for .achristianfamily either, but you credit the empire and discredit the republic for reasons we're invited to not misrepresent as misplaced loyalties, i guess. similarly with electrum - yes, for as long as you stick to the credit empire discredit republic mindset, it "enables" you.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:13 mircea_popescu: when $empire$ does it, let it irk you ; when $republic$ does it, let you not notice.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of which, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743518 prolly needs to be addressed better than the original "i wouldn't give a shit" : i'm ready to take over the governance of the entire world from the hands of the inept pretenders of today, as of yesterday. the result would be very ~different~, yes, but that's irrelevant.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 04:01 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743510 << betcha mircea_popescu would conclusively barf long before a thousand, much less 4b, were to show up, with their inevitable and loathesome moan 'unfair! virii stole me coinz', 'my gox stole!' and similar leprosies
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9860.0, vol: 9604.09387645 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 9820.0, vol: 45529.0680051 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9768.5, vol: 2573.68892591 | Volume-weighted last average: 9824.36029296
mircea_popescu: dun dun DUN!
BingoBoingo: Ny how the OMG Crashing tickles
mircea_popescu: recall when usg got all butthurt over its bch failure and was going to crash bitcoin nao ?
BingoBoingo: AHA, this weekend. Crashing very well
a111: Logged on 2017-11-26 03:19 mircea_popescu: and in other "we are the asswipes, we programatically cut the very branch we sit on" lulz, "we did not choose the "new rothchilds" nor do we want them. if bitcoin cash is a means to stop these people then it appears that the votes are being cast as we speak. if bitcoin cash is just another version of the "new rothchilds" then the votes will be cast for the next usurper. there will always be an underdog".
mircea_popescu: THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN UNDERDOG!!!
mircea_popescu: usg will survive as provider of toilet paper!!!
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, peasants of 1800 did not have the option of plastic or they'd have taken it just the same; that being said I still recall the communist-ro going precisely that route e.g. have now this here wonderful soya-oil just as good as the "true thing" which supposedly was... sunflower oil because nobody was supposed to even remember olive oil
mircea_popescu: diana_coman do you recall the communist era crocs ?
mircea_popescu: they had these whole-plastic sandals for little girls. which poor girls wore, and which were an insta-ban from mp's circles.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman lemme see if i can fish a pic somehiw
diana_coman: ugh, I thought those were modern day idiocy
mircea_popescu: nah, 100% injected plastic sandals for little girls. well boys too i guess, if they were faggots.
diana_coman: I remember plain and honest mud-country "gumari" and I still hated them, lol
mircea_popescu: rubberized wellingtons make sense. not as leisurewear, but legit work garb.
diana_coman: yes, exactly; tbh I hated the *mud* that made them a necessity, myeah
mircea_popescu: so you have no recollection of this item ? i could fucking draw it. came in absurd colors too, like plastic-purple or plastic-orange
mircea_popescu: you could tell the composition by the palette it supported.
diana_coman: no, I don't; we always had leather shoes/sandals and I suppose I did not really notice much what others had for shoes
diana_coman: at the time
diana_coman: somehow not-leather meant not-shoe; and tbh romania really was good at making leather shoes so dunno
mircea_popescu: the problem with unsystematic preservation -- teh internets dun seem to contain.
mircea_popescu: yep. but ppl wore them.
diana_coman: I don't doubt it; precisely my point above: they will go for whatever is cheapest available regardless of anything else
mircea_popescu: http://adevarul.ro/assets/adevarul.ro/MRImage/2013/05/15/5193daf3053c7dd83f9f898d/646x404.jpg random ancient lolz
diana_coman: rather: for cheapest available that still retains the *form* of what it's supposed to be, at least to some degree; otherwise they could go barefoot one would think
mircea_popescu: consider what the (immensely popular at the time) item says : "la tarani le-a luat pamintul, la studenti le-a luat cuvintul, la soferi le-a luat benzina, la prosti le facea cu mina". ie, the peasants HAD land. how ? when ? without the fucking communists the usg-alligned maniu, bratianu & friends would be STILL dithering over minor land distributions. exactly like the usgstan does.
mircea_popescu: students had the speech ? in the sense of what everloving shit, like reddit and wikipedia, that's what's contemplated here, ceausescu prevented the idiots from running r/btc as they wanted to ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hm; my great grandfather settled in Baragan on land that *his* father bought specifically for his sons;and the land was not 500m garden hut included either
mircea_popescu: in 1940 romania "had" gasoline in the sense whore has money : as a temporary conveyance, between the time punter gives it to her to take to the pimp and the time pimp gets it. in 1980 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737815 and yet... ceausescu TOOK the driver's gasoline ? which they naturally had, somehow, as their birthright ?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 17:03 mircea_popescu: and then in spite of "political control" ie "containment policy" romania operated it's OWN gulf concessions with its own machinery and shipped the oil on its own boats made in its own factories.
diana_coman: then he lost all the animals "colectivizare"
mircea_popescu: jezuz god i hate romanians.
diana_coman: and the farm land pretty much same way
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yes, pre-communism romania had private land ownership, resulting in "tarani" as the genertal noun not having any land.
diana_coman: he considered himself peasant, waht
mircea_popescu: i suppose the criticism is that "he reduced land diffusion, in that changed a situation where 10% owned some land to a situation where 0% owned some land"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the question is what the other peasants considered him, it's an exonym.
diana_coman: on the other side, grandfather ran away from land basically because he hated it
mircea_popescu: the mud ?
diana_coman: the "idiotic work" and "fucking potato soup"
diana_coman: his words, I heard them lots
mircea_popescu: so what, he went to north pole, lived off polar bear ?
diana_coman: nope, he went away as young lad with pretty much whatever he could find; he tried them all from religious missionaries/sects/whatevers to singing; in the end he settled in town and worked as a worker in a factory, saved, bought some land, built the house *with his own hands* etc
mircea_popescu: poor rural modern (and i guess postmodern) societies will eat potato, it's exactly a "cheapest available" item as per above.
diana_coman: well yes, funnily enough his family was certainly poorer than those on the other side, yes; still, he actually made more for himself overall
mircea_popescu: an interesting application of http://trilema.com/2013/the-dead-jew-and-the-raped-girl/ i guess! guy came up with the correct strategy, and tried to implement.
mircea_popescu: failed because, obviously, guy.
diana_coman: and ftr he always kept a perfectly well-worked garden ; at some point he even sold his produce in the market
diana_coman: so it wasn't either work or mud that he ran away from; it really was as he stated it the idiocy
mircea_popescu: i never quite understood why gardening is universally popular.
diana_coman: to his mind the land was wasted otherwise, waht
diana_coman: yes, there were trees too, grapes, place to eat outside etc; but still!
mircea_popescu: yes but field work, such as wheat, is very amenable to mecanization. gardening, barely if at all. if you hate the idiocy of mother nature (which i fuklly understand, caragiale's "da, duioasa mama ce-i drept... trebuie numa' s-o bati sa-i singerezi sinul pina sa se-ndure sa-ti dea o picatura de lapte..." is a great understatement, there's nothing more loatefuly and despicable than "mother" nature) you'd expect you'd prefer its
mircea_popescu: vulnerable parts.
diana_coman: eh, what mecanization at that time and place
mircea_popescu: (because yes, that's the competitive explanation of "idiocy" such as say http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-17#1740001 : people genuinely, and literally, and most absolutely HATE nature. and for good cause and perfectly defensible reasons)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-17 04:03 mircea_popescu: ie, nobody will ever say "mad cow disease exists because usda introduced mandatory milk pasteurization in 1933 taking advantage of the 'overproduction' of milk the usg generated artificially through fucking the currency"
diana_coman: I don't think he realised/understood/perceived the option or he'd have gone for it as far as I can tell otherwise
mircea_popescu: diana_coman they had it ; leaving aside the "check out us/canada machinery cca 1920", they had it in romania. http://trilema.com/2011/romanii-sunt-cam-fraieri/ printed item had advertisements on other side.
mircea_popescu: you can't go through any printed publication pre 1930 without running into at least an advertisement for used steam powered farm machinery as well as for new gasoline stuff.
diana_coman: he was born in 1920; fwiw even now in villages I still see them manually doing the work, what can I say
diana_coman: I'm sure there were machines at that time, yes
diana_coman: my point was there were none in his village/that he had a chance to even see at work /as an option before screwing it all and leaving rather than anything else
mircea_popescu: (the subtler point being that look, romanians not even capable of administering their own beerhall, what farm machinery)
diana_coman: that I have ample and repeated proof of, absolutely
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i suspect this goes right to babbage's point. to paraphrase, "i prefer living in america because when i explain something the british idiots dedicate themselves to rpoving to me orally how it couldn't work while the yanks are strictly focused on how it could be sold)
mircea_popescu: there are inept places full of self-important idiots (imparati in ancient trilema lingo) where defection is the only available strategy.
diana_coman: quite how I see it, yes
mircea_popescu: this eternal duality "but what proof do you have ? and what proof do you have that your proof is proofing ???" vs "ok, so what do i do".
mircea_popescu: and turn it as i might, i can't separate the former from the hallucination of self-determination. rural "king of the world" in decayed to death sicily, dying british empire, romania throughout and recently the us cultural space imagines himself... in a position to... MAKE DECISIONS!!! has options! may at his leisure obey republic or not. and so on.
mircea_popescu: discussions of "rape" in the public space today, as discussions of "unfairness" in the same public space a century ago are then all meaningless in the direct, simple manifestations of a doomed culture. "oh noes, our precious imaginary superiority was insulted by reality, there's a hole in the matrix through which you can perceive you AREN'T the single playing character in a WoWoW".
diana_coman: you know, this "fairness" thing doesn't stand 10 minutes face with reality even through a child's eyes; if only s/he doesn't try with all might to not look or something
mircea_popescu: depends how old.
mircea_popescu: prepubescent kid, right you are. but then with puberty the problems begin.
mircea_popescu: socialism is naught else but a condensed 13yo, or at least all its anxieties and miscomprehensions, distilled into ideological form.
mircea_popescu: and for teh rotaku club : mp three months before discovering bitcoin, explaining why and wherefore it;s needed. http://trilema.com/2011/izvoarele-moralei/
asciilifeform: oh neato
asciilifeform: meanwhile in heathendom, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1742144 << >> https://archive.is/LHmQD
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 18:05 asciilifeform: in other noose, sci-hub.cc dun resolve nomoar.
mircea_popescu: and STILL will not speak of how optional dns is.
mircea_popescu: o look, it's in there, some "professor of publishing".
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 13:19 mircea_popescu: http://adevarul.ro/assets/adevarul.ro/MRImage/2013/05/15/5193daf3053c7dd83f9f898d/646x404.jpg random ancient lolz
mircea_popescu: "pioneer the japanese corp is now growing tomatoes"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743639 << ? >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-02#699078
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 12:58 mircea_popescu: and speaking of which, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743518 prolly needs to be addressed better than the original "i wouldn't give a shit" : i'm ready to take over the governance of the entire world from the hands of the inept pretenders of today, as of yesterday. the result would be very ~different~, yes, but that's irrelevant.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-02 18:30 mircea_popescu: Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations competent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or what
asciilifeform: ( wouljda really want to herd cattle all day, every day, mircea_popescu ? )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743653 << you'd be quite surprised at the variety of faux-olive oils in usa. errything from avocado to old tyres, i suspect
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 13:14 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, peasants of 1800 did not have the option of plastic or they'd have taken it just the same; that being said I still recall the communist-ro going precisely that route e.g. have now this here wonderful soya-oil just as good as the "true thing" which supposedly was... sunflower oil because nobody was supposed to even remember olive oil
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743673 << in ru , 'the glory of the ancien regime' types get the label 'хруст французской булки'
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 13:20 mircea_popescu: consider what the (immensely popular at the time) item says : "la tarani le-a luat pamintul, la studenti le-a luat cuvintul, la soferi le-a luat benzina, la prosti le facea cu mina". ie, the peasants HAD land. how ? when ? without the fucking communists the usg-alligned maniu, bratianu & friends would be STILL dithering over minor land distributions. exactly like the usgstan does.
asciilifeform: ( from a fantasy-nostalgia song that contained said line , 'Как упоительны в России вечера, Любовь, шампанское, закаты, переулки. Ах, лето красное, забавы и прогулки, Как упоительны в России вечера. Балы, красавицы, лакеи, юнкера, И вальсы Шуберта, и хруст французской б
asciilifeform: улки ...' )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you think it is i do, all day every day ?
asciilifeform: dunno, herd ocelots ?
asciilifeform: or other selected, exotic beasts. but surely not cow.
asciilifeform: re peasants -- dim-witted westerners of prev generation ( current ones have nfi and dun give half a shit even if you plug'em into the mains wiring ) thought that somehow communism happened because of malevolent martians landing, rather than from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743681
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 13:22 mircea_popescu: diana_coman yes, pre-communism romania had private land ownership, resulting in "tarani" as the genertal noun not having any land.
mircea_popescu: and they come from what ?
asciilifeform: i've nfi from what. from the wild.
mircea_popescu: andf that "wild" is ?
asciilifeform: the saeculum, presided over by various herdemoocracies etc ?
mircea_popescu: so how do you secrete a wall between this and cows all day ?
asciilifeform: well specifically i picture mircea_popescu as moar of a hunter than a farmer
mircea_popescu: do you think these categories are distinguishable ? modern hunter === modern farmer.
asciilifeform: hunter doesn't concern himself with every piece of fungus in the forest, he walks in and shoots the tastiest-looking thing he knows how to get a bead on, neh
asciilifeform: farmer -- concerned with fungi.
mircea_popescu: this is purely an artefact of interpretative ballet.
asciilifeform: and stuck with the chore of running a faux ecosystem with own hands, feeding the defective piglets to the proper ones, etc
mircea_popescu: hunter, concerns, inasmuch as he bothers to notice frog is frog does not shoot at frog ; farmer, doesn't concern, in asmuch as doesn't go out picking thistle.
asciilifeform: hunter takes the forest as it is; farmer otoh is running a pretend-herdemoocracy-forest where calorie-dense seeds appear in rather unlikely densities ( as reviewed in http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain )
asciilifeform: farmer pushes the boulder uphill, and is stuck with 9000 types of 'naturam expellas furca tamen usque recurret' (tm)(r) chores.
mircea_popescu: this is nonsense, but it also has exhausted my budget.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu at some later point feels like showing how farmer and hunter are exactly same thing, i'll listen.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743697 << i suspect... marx! has the pill here. entfremdung der arbeit (tm)(r)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 13:28 mircea_popescu: i never quite understood why gardening is universally popular.
asciilifeform: !#s while you sleep
a111: 37 results for "while you sleep", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=while%20you%20sleep
asciilifeform: quite a few folx, esp. the mentally limited, are irresistibly drawn to anything that smells of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-01-19#449500
a111: Logged on 2014-01-19 19:48 mircea_popescu: i came to it studying the warrior forum (*) years ago, when i noticed the unifying factor in all their textual emissions was a desire to "make money while you sleep".
asciilifeform: an incidentally interesting bit is that gardens are an 'unprincipled exception' in usgdom just as they were in su. theoretically a garden aficionado owes every 4th tomato or whatever his 'bracket' is, to usg, as tax; things that grow from the ground count, famously, as 'income' -- even if not sold -- per 'wickard v. filburn'
asciilifeform: it may even already be the case that the cost of a ~proper~ (i.e. non-poisoned) vegetable in usgdom from the specialty shop, counting the multiple taxation (of yer own money, as 'income', of the sale, as state 'sales tax', of the growers', of the landlord's, etc ) layers, equals or exceeds the cost of growing it with own hands in a garden.
asciilifeform: !#s wickard
asciilifeform: ^ apparently already visited.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your notion is anachronistic, in the sense that it compares a "hunter" cut out of the 10k years ago subsistence hunter contained in the expression hunter-gatherer with the modern farmer. you can't cross time boundries like that. modern hunter is modern in exactly the same way modern farmer is modern, and for the same reasons. historical "farmer" is just as primitive as the hunter, which is why it's even called
mircea_popescu: gatherer as opposed to farmer.
asciilifeform: in the sense of him being a tentacle on a gigantic farming-powered civilization, that made his rifle, his shirt, his truck -- yea
mircea_popescu: and in the sense that he has the choice to either put mangers in and fill them every winter or be forest walker ; and that he either obeys "hunting season" or idem ; and so on.
asciilifeform: i didn't say that i saw mircea_popescu as ~modern~ hunter, lol
asciilifeform: nah, proper one, in bear skin, with spear, etc.
mircea_popescu: modernity is modernity, there's no out of it. once you walked around your cage, it's walked, there's no undoing it.
mircea_popescu: this being the only proper definition of modernity : man after finally having walked the perimeter of his cage.
mircea_popescu: "age of exploration" aite.
asciilifeform: there's also such a thing as countermodernity tho
asciilifeform: sawing through the cage.
mircea_popescu: in the sense there's a thing as countericecream
mircea_popescu: frozen yogurt stilll icecream.
asciilifeform: the herdemoocracy narrative is that steam power made clitler inescapable. i dun buy.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 17:19 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: stalin, supposedly, once said to his friends, 'history divides into three eras, matriarchate, patriarchate, and secretariate'
mircea_popescu: all "sawing through the cage" proposals i've seen to date (and a major part of what i do is look for exactly that) consist of either idle wankery (german philosophy school etc) or else "here's how to cut a two inch hole in the wall, stick a paper bag out of there, and duct tape it to the hole from outside". ty... but... this replaces a wall with a paper bag ? "yes, but it goes FURTHER OUT!!" sure, but i still know it like my
mircea_popescu: own pocket ? "well of course... what did you expect ?" honestly, nothing much.
mircea_popescu: there's no going back to a state of innocence, whereby "we don't know what's at the end of the earth". thereby, there's no going back to a state where we will ever do anything other than sift through herds looking for the accidentally lost woman in an inexplicable sheepskin.
mircea_popescu: which reduces to, "most of your time, and most of your women's time, will be spent with cows."
asciilifeform: i'll point out, for completeness, the traditional alternatives of: the bottle, and the library
asciilifeform: 0 cows in either
asciilifeform: and wankery!11
mircea_popescu: no. THOSE are wankery.
asciilifeform: well if defining walking around with an unenclosed cock as necessarily wankery -- then yes
mircea_popescu: wankery is the adolescentine state whereby the things we don't look at aren't there because the power of our imagination makes the playboy girl real!
asciilifeform: [insert 'literacy is sin, as the reader sees things that ain't there' thread here]
mircea_popescu: which incidentally provides the explanation for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-24#1742829 as plain as day.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-24 05:34 mircea_popescu: one day i'll understand how this sense-nonsense alloying works.
mircea_popescu: "lifetime wanker will have adapted to his lifestyle". oh... you don't say.
asciilifeform: there might still be a few chukchas left somewhere who properly practice the virtue of 'never see a thing that ain't there' . the folx who shown a novel answer 'why'
mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised what % of current "novels" fail this simple test.
asciilifeform: this also. and the detritus eventually clogs the arteries of whatever culture produced it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem, as that wise doctor pointed out, isn't when you start hearing voices, but when you start talking back.
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to see things thatr aren't there. for as long as you live in the world of things that are there. once you move to living in the unreal...
asciilifeform: see possibly also the thread with faraday and his magnetic field lines.
asciilifeform: 'dreamer' culture is somewhat like a school of pilotage absent the landing.
a111: Logged on 2014-03-05 23:06 asciilifeform: the 'time microscope' thing is typical of aging inventors who, by virtue of being cut off from competent peers (either by having none alive, or being on the wrong side of a jail of one kind or another)
asciilifeform: there's 2 possible uses of abstraction -- a) to move between places in reality phase space that aren't walkable to via greedy algorithm ( e.g. tractor is not a minor refinement on horse-drawn plow ) b) to pull own cock
asciilifeform: when folx begin to see reality as 'read-only', they retreat into full-bore (b) .
asciilifeform: i'll recount an episode recently reported by asciilifeform's pet, on reconnaissance into a heathen pit . two d00dz argued re 'post-rsa crypto'. and one drew forth from his sleeve an erudite wankery, n-th generation stolen from thel0gz! : 'why not cipher using playing field of cellular automaton, say, game of life, initial state as key...'
asciilifeform: witness the traditional 'tlp' symptoms of walking around with no inclination to ~try~ such a thing, or anything at all, with own hands, and see why this dun work with any known automaton ruleset ( do i have to say why, or readers already know ? )
asciilifeform: ( i'm rot13 the answ to riddle : gurer vf ab xabja jnl gb thnenagrr na vavgvny jbeyq fgngr gung qbrfa'g dhvpxyl pbairetr vagb n svkrq fgrnql fgngr, be n ernfbanoyl fubeg ybbc (juvpu tvirf gevivnyyl oernxnoyr pvcuregrkg) -- vg vf rknpgyl gur fnzr vgrz nf gur 'lrf vg'f na ac-pbzcyrgr ceboyrz, ohg ubj gb thnenagrr gung n enaqbzyl trarengrq vafgnapr vf abg gevivny?' )
asciilifeform: but it's a trivially discoverable fact, for people who actually bothered with the subj beyond chitchat.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9915.01, vol: 9889.25891721 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 9910.1, vol: 43921.30261443 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9846.5, vol: 2382.27948271 | Volume-weighted last average: 9908.26779661
asciilifeform: ohai mod6
mod6: how goes ascii?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-27 20:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've cut ffa into 30 pieces, each ~1 pg; -> bl0g article.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-27 20:40 asciilifeform: currently asciilifeform is barfing over the fact that adacore's gnat is happy to build static 'independent library' .a while gpl gcc's gnat barfs
asciilifeform: mod6: it's an afaik unjustifiable divergence in how the 2 gnats' 'gprbuild' util behaves.
mod6: and adacore's is supposed to be canonical im guessing?
asciilifeform: on some far-away planet, there is a standard sane os and language standards cover linking.
asciilifeform: but not here.
mod6: fair enough
asciilifeform: and i dun have any particular warm feelings for either set of derps
asciilifeform: ( gnu-gnat or adacore-gnat people )
asciilifeform: the former seem to exist solely by mooching from the latter -- who largely eat from usg
mod6: basically my mental picture of the whole thing
a111: Logged on 2017-11-27 20:42 asciilifeform: i'd naively expect that adacore's item would be the satanic one, and gcc's fork -- the functional. but so far in no case was this the finding.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743816 << this is actually a pretty great point. yes, exactly.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 16:30 asciilifeform: 'dreamer' culture is somewhat like a school of pilotage absent the landing.
mircea_popescu: tractor, while just as real as oxplow, is nevertheless no kind of oxplow ; sewing machine, while just as sewy as sewing by hand, nevertheless not a mechanical sewing hand ; airplane, while just as aflight as bird, nevertheless not mechanical wing flapper. and so on.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 17:56 jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9915.01, vol: 9889.25891721 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 9910.1, vol: 43921.30261443 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9846.5, vol: 2382.27948271 | Volume-weighted last average: 9908.26779661
mircea_popescu: 10k, bitch. where's your government now ?
asciilifeform: eh to quote mircea_popescu , who the hell cares what happens at a gox
mircea_popescu: the gox ppls!
mircea_popescu: same idiots as "o noes, unforkable bitcoin is not valuable!!11" continuously since 2013.
asciilifeform: to the extent they actually do something other than generate and post random numbers -- sure
ben_vulpes: and in other censorsheeps http://www.business-review.eu/news/certain-facebook-users-in-romania-see-content-related-to-street-protests-reviewed-under-community-standards-153255
asciilifeform: 'The common notification from Facebook was that the post was under review to see if it breached the community standards. Other posts about the protests were suspected by Facebook of being spam.' << lol!!
mod6: Let them filter spam.
ben_vulpes: mod6: antoinette reference?
ben_vulpes: "we don't have any real news!" "eh, let them filter spam."
ben_vulpes: could also be a "pound sand" replacement: "eh, filter spam"
asciilifeform: oh noez colourrevolution enzyme aint supposed to digest godly usg-approved muppetstate!11
mircea_popescu: ftr : romanian "protests" entirely usg fabrication, https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2017/11/275899.htm etc. the way this gets implemented in practice is that local usg-alligned orcs "leverage their network". which in romania is a few kids with "network skillz", ie two bit "blackhatwordld" injuns/niggers.
mod6: 2 girls, 1 crimper
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/amintiri-de-la-revolutia-lui-calafat/ << EXACT same item, same people, same props, same everything, 5years ago.
asciilifeform: lol ro majdan
mircea_popescu: anyway, the whole thing is "we captured the ro judiciary, the wave turned, we're trying to defend this asset for now".
mircea_popescu: it won't hold.
asciilifeform: captured for what? the 'corruption' racket ?
mircea_popescu: "don't vote for x, he not only would confiscate our constanta base BUT IS VERY CORRUPT" sorta bs.
mircea_popescu: somehow the idiots didn't see that whole thing for the trap it was. "first, let them build it, doh"
mircea_popescu: (the geostrategic situation, for the very understandably disinterested, is that usg can not maintain pretense of mediteranean presence without ground missiles in constanta, because the ru navy actually works whereas the us clittorals do not.)
asciilifeform: turks not enuff ?
mircea_popescu: nope. russians can now jam. either you get them next to sevastopol or forget it.
mircea_popescu: thereby "corruption = the rent is about to go up ~1`984x"
asciilifeform: hey if usg ~to this day~ has gitmo, inside a cuba, for 0 rent, why not costanta
mircea_popescu: because what trhe fuck is cuba.
asciilifeform: dunno, small bananistan with a surprisingly successful history of expelling usg ?
mircea_popescu: islands dude. islands are undefensible.
asciilifeform: dunno, castro defended for 50y
mircea_popescu: ended in the 70s, so not really.
mircea_popescu: coupla decades.
asciilifeform: how's that
asciilifeform: afaik usg Official Truth to this day is 'cuba Must Die'
mircea_popescu: i don't recall castro making any decision in the kennedy ultimatum, at any juncture.
asciilifeform: the bay of pigs folx got their arse handed to'em neh
mircea_popescu: if hruschev went "well, it's up to castro", then defended.
asciilifeform: cuba not overrun even after hrusch withdrew
asciilifeform: why not ?
mircea_popescu: same reason you didn't rape some fatty.
mircea_popescu: "not overrun" but i don't see it sending agents to blow up dept of state trashbins.
asciilifeform: i'm not sold that this fatty was fat. ru signals base happily churned along in cuba until '93 or so
mircea_popescu: at some point, cuba was exactly 1980s libya, attacked usg frigates in port and paid people to bomb
asciilifeform: libya had petro moneys
asciilifeform: cuba -- poor
mircea_popescu: for whatever reason it may have occured.
asciilifeform: iirc stopped with the frigates when su so ordered.
asciilifeform: ( cuba, that is )
mircea_popescu: more like, when stalin died. cuba was international socialism thing. like mexico.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9872.54, vol: 10977.65162483 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 9889.0, vol: 48178.83177407 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9786.0, vol: 2454.29600468 | Volume-weighted last average: 9881.96414299
asciilifeform: ... epic goxlag tho.
ben_vulpes: REEEEEEEEEESPONSIBLE DISCLOSUREEEEEEEEE https://twitter.com/lemiorhan/status/935578694541770752
asciilifeform: pretty great.
ben_vulpes: the responsible disclosure whining is pretty lolarious
mircea_popescu: the expectation on the part of the usg drones that usg gets a private first pass for being usg is something else.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency eur
mircea_popescu: somehow "criminal" isn't supposed to FIRST be notified PRIVATELY about how usg aims to assault.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitfinex BTCEUR last: 8312.9, vol: 1584.62517085 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 8280.0, vol: 6766.91938897 | Volume-weighted last average: 8286.24245824
mircea_popescu: this is what's gonna be the new response to police "arrest" : you DID first send a PM right ?
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> the responsible disclosure whining is pretty lolarious << very.
asciilifeform: !!up The20YearIRCloud
deedbot: The20YearIRCloud voiced for 30 minutes.
The20YearIRCloud: I feel special now
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: looking for anything in particular ?
The20YearIRCloud: Not so much, just wondered what happened to the exchange, or if i'm missing something
The20YearIRCloud: and bitbet or whateverit was called
ben_vulpes: The20YearIRCloud: there are logs, nobody is going to read them for you.
ben_vulpes: if you're keeping up, you're falling behind.
ben_vulpes: not* keeping up
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743697 << I suspected it was the appeal of contest in attempting to carve out a local space where one tries to out-God the Gods
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 13:28 mircea_popescu: i never quite understood why gardening is universally popular.
mircea_popescu: so you can watch every single bug and worm piss on you from high above ?
BingoBoingo: And smite the ones you spot, learn from the experience and bring a better game next season. Very much a resistance of the medium sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: the trick with Gods is that they're not fucking Atlas, supporting the world on own shoulder each and every day or else. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-07#1448124 very much apropos.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-07 17:50 mircea_popescu: basically, all the architecture systems architects have managed yet to produce is the equivalent of "we need 10.1k builders - 100 to build and 10k to hold up the walls once we're done".
BingoBoingo: Hey, if the Gods raid your playing god patch with a bunch of voracious bunny rabbit mobs, then you've gardened delicious rabbit
BingoBoingo: And not all gardening is food. There's also the decorative gardens for getting randy with the ladies
mircea_popescu: i've been making candlewax garden of late. shit's fun.
BingoBoingo plans to wait at least one year before trying to terraform any corners or Uruguay
mircea_popescu: good idea.
mircea_popescu: at least cursory familiarity with the poisonous plants pre-required
The20YearIRCloud: mircea_popescu: I had someone ask about those posters if they were valid today, oddly enough
The20YearIRCloud: (Thus me finding the chat again)
mircea_popescu: the who ?
The20YearIRCloud: The posters you paid for, ~3yrs ago
mircea_popescu: link ?
mircea_popescu: i have paid for so many posters... what is this, the pili thing ?
The20YearIRCloud: for property tenants of my company, 2-3 years ago, gave out a bunch of posters to ungreatful tenants whom you offered 0.5btc to
The20YearIRCloud: ha ha ha, i actually thought about that
The20YearIRCloud: Are you still paying 0.02?
The20YearIRCloud: Dang, that's a bit generous, don't you think?
mircea_popescu: but hey, 0.5 was also VERY generous ; and in general everything i do is. meanwhile the fucktards http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743513
a111: Logged on 2017-11-28 03:39 mircea_popescu: somehow if the usg website comes up with "it's illegal to smoke", they stop smoking, AS FUCKING IF. whereas when the republic orders, they "have options".
The20YearIRCloud: I'll let em know. For some reason I have t his awful feeling they'll be more apt for that then to take the freebie offered years ago
mircea_popescu: of course.
The20YearIRCloud: 0.5 was fantastically generous at the time (It was like $50 if memory serves me right), but like i said, and I could find the chat log, i was (And continue to deal with) idiots on a daily basis
mircea_popescu: !!ratings The20YearIRCloud
The20YearIRCloud: new system?
mircea_popescu: !!key The20YearIRCloud
deedbot: Not registered.
mircea_popescu: not really.
mircea_popescu: rather i expect new name ?
The20YearIRCloud: possibly, it was just the20year earlier
mircea_popescu: !!ratings The20Year
mircea_popescu: !!reputation The20Year
mircea_popescu: trinque did i mention how great eg http://wot.deedbot.org/0FC17787D364466DC5686B4F31AF6822CA3B400F.html is recently ?
trinque: not bad eh?
BingoBoingo: Poor The20YearIRCloud , insufficient ratings to bid for colo space
BingoBoingo: Recovery from Havelol will prolly take substantial tit wrangling
mircea_popescu: apparently the expectation is that 3 year rule.
BingoBoingo: What was that again? Shame, disappear for 3 years and slave away in the tit mines?
asciilifeform yet again, for 3rd time in 2 yrs, attempted and failed to build a 'zero foot print runtime' for gnat -- to abolish the 3MB of liquishit it shits into every executable.
asciilifeform: supposedly this is one of the items included in the 'pro' payware gnat. and they have made re-creating it as painful as they could.
asciilifeform: funnily enough adacore itself publishes a great many cut-down runtimes for various embedded boxes, e.g. https://bitbucket.org/tkoskine/embedded-arm-gnat-rts/src . BUT they are not usable: 1) there is -- quite deliberately -- not one targeting conventional userland linux 2) none of them support exception handling, which wouldn't be a problem except that ALL BOUNDS CHECKS ARE EXCEPTIONTRONIC
asciilifeform: see , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741741 , but a RUNNABLE linked elf is multi-MB and full of turd and quite unauditable.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 18:36 asciilifeform: in other noose, ffa elf on x86-64 with no inlinings and stripped .a , is ~50kB
asciilifeform: the approach to making a rts ( gnatruntime ) from 0, depicted in e.g. https://github.com/alkhimey/Ada_Kernel_Module_Toolkit works -- but does not result in a ffa-usable rts , because the boundschecking exceptionhandlers are not present.
asciilifeform: so the next logical thing is, you go and find where yer gnat's a-except.adb/ads live, and try and backport'em, right ?
asciilifeform: but then welcome to an inner circle of hell, because it's a mass of ??? interdependently glued to itself with broken glass
asciilifeform: ( hey lamer, you wanted No_Secondary_Stack restriction ? fuck you, we used variable-length strings for the exception message passing. and 9,001 of similar item. )
asciilifeform: oh that ain't all
ben_vulpes: lol go on?
asciilifeform: bonus hell : if you want to build a rts, you gotta use "-gnatg" flag. or you get:
asciilifeform: 'user-defined descendants of package System are not allowed'
asciilifeform: and ditto package Ada ( exceptions ) and pretty much the rest of your rts
asciilifeform: now for the ultimate barf :
asciilifeform: the docs ( https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugn-docs/html/gnat_ugn/gnat_ugn/building_executable_programs_with_gnat.html ) but gnu's agree give us:
asciilifeform: 'Internal GNAT implementation mode. This should not be used for applications programs, it is intended only for use by the compiler and its run-time library. For documentation, see the GNAT sources. Note that -gnatg implies -gnatw.ge and -gnatyg so that all standard warnings and all standard style options are turned on. All warnings and style messages are treated as errors.'
asciilifeform: this means 1) no docs. at. all
asciilifeform: 2) style fascism is turned on AND CANNOT BE TURNED OFF
asciilifeform: which means that none of my code even builds, because gnat then insists on adacore's idiotic massive-extra-spaces-everywhere stylistics.
ben_vulpes: are these stylistics part of the spec or what
asciilifeform: they are part of they-don't-want-you-to-do-this.
asciilifeform: it's a sabotaged proggy.
asciilifeform: the tentative conclusion : asciilifeform is condemned to take ownership of gnat, and burn out the nonsense with hot irons.
asciilifeform: i'ma have to do it after ffa/p tho. but really this is ridiculous, the built binaries are not auditable until we extirpate the ball of nonsense.
ben_vulpes: sad stuff, asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: ffa.a stripped is 50kB; 'hello world' without anything whatsoever, null procedure, is 3.5MB
asciilifeform: ( stripped -- 1 or so )
ben_vulpes: pffflol that's epic
asciilifeform: granted it's a standard lib, and contains various items like the ( spiffy, but i dun use it in p !!! ) threading system
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly asciilifeform i saw you mention 'goxlag' a few times recently, is bitfinex not releasing btc?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: goxlag , recall, was ping delay
asciilifeform: whether or not the gox has transitioned to the next dwarf stage is immaterial
ben_vulpes: heh verily i do not remember, 'twas not a concern
asciilifeform: anyway i'ma bbl.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> sad stuff, asciilifeform . << uuuugh indeed.
asciilifeform: it aint just exceptions, either. gnat happily ignores the fact that strings package isn't used, and inserts a dependency on it for the linker to barf on. ditto tasks, and a dozen other.
asciilifeform: for n00bz : 'rts' in ada world is approx equiv of libc.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10133.47, vol: 12721.68555284 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10135.0, vol: 52631.12235665 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9984.0, vol: 2760.11355154 | Volume-weighted last average: 10128.5953221
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/dpo8I/?raw=true << sample rts eggogology , to round out the thread.
asciilifeform: ( and yes with a c 'main.c' , otherwise motherfucker dun even have any idea where .code seg starts )
mod6: b__main.adb:(.text.adainit+0xfd): undefined reference to `ada__strings_E' << this is sad, really.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10365.97, vol: 13620.94227422 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10322.0, vol: 59759.57629282 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10270.0, vol: 3132.98027755 | Volume-weighted last average: 10327.6983129
BingoBoingo: Quite the thrashing crashing
asciilifeform: nao if it were to grow just oooone moar 0..!
ben_vulpes: give it a half decade
BingoBoingo: Or till March, or whatever man. Great Again cannot Make Great in a single day.
asciilifeform: at current price , e.g., ro passport , costs ~75 btc.
BingoBoingo: What, there's no route for earnestly living there and waiting for that next zero in .ro ?
mod6: yeah, zero
mod6: i like that better
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: only if you have a mircea_popescu-strength meat otc wot
asciilifeform: as it is, asciilifeform couldn't even sell 1 btc in here in usgistan, even if wanted to.
asciilifeform: nor, for that matter, to buy.