BingoBoingo: So, replies finally coming in from the Pinoys, the Hong Kongs, and a lone Thai outfit that outsources their email to wix.com
BingoBoingo: And the HK business day starts at 4 am UTC
BingoBoingo: As always reading email headers is informative
mircea_popescu: ahaha build your free site, srlsy ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously.
BingoBoingo: And now that there are replies, plural for a change; the responses are bifurcating. There is "more information on your company pls" and then there is "more information on your requirments pls"
BingoBoingo: Numbers and pricing information however are still elusive.
shinohai: LOL davout ` we all have our "~/niggers.txt" `
davout: yeah, i couldn't resist
shinohai: !#s amlbitcoin
shinohai: "Fuck guys, were on nsa watchlist, can't use amlbitcoin" "Oh noes, WHAT THE FUCK WE GONNA DO?!?!"
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in world of koch, https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/735840/11066f48be7a5f92 << >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c1NUm/?raw=true
asciilifeform: 'Koch then moved into Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC), which he discussed at some length. RSA, he said, is not likely to stay secure for much longer without really large keys. Support for 4096-bit RSA keys has been in GnuPG for some time, but Koch contends that real security will require 16Kb keys; that makes keys, fingerprints, and signatures all unusably long, particularly for embedded devices and hardware security modules (HSMs)
asciilifeform: .' << didjaknow!
asciilifeform: 'So instead he's moving toward ECC ciphers, which are well-researched — more so than RSA, according to Koch. '
asciilifeform: '...the timings from the RSA HSM showed that a doubling of the key length increased the time required to sign nearly six-fold, and the time for verification even more. The timings from the Ed25519 HSM were agreeably small (all sub-50ms).' << this is precious
BingoBoingo: !~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/sQ39n/?raw=true
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: and naturally no koch speech is complete without a 'the web of trust, he feels, is inherently broken. It is only explicable to geeks, and not to all of them, it publishes a global social graph, because signatures on keys imply physical meetings on known dates, and it doesn't scale.'
BingoBoingo: Awe, his poor tired rectum mouth
phf: to be fair gnupg's wot and the corresponding mechanisms are broken. that's where the whole "trusted key" and such nonsense come from
phf: but at the same time it's handy strawman: ~web of trust~ is broken, because our take on it is a piece of shit. i thought that's some pantsuit pattern discussed elsewhere
asciilifeform: it's the universal pattern. 1 of the half dozen or so basic hammers in their toolkit, along with 'unhappeneding', 'taiwaning', etc
mircea_popescu: o ya.
phf: ``Google shuts YouTube channel implicated in Kremlin political propaganda ops (techcrunch.com)'' ``although the videos did not gain significant traction on YouTube, according to The Daily Beast, which said they had only garnered “hundreds” of views prior to the channel being closed''
mircea_popescu: wait, altrough is a tag ?
phf: oh, man, i've been typing TeX yesterday, so the quotes got stuck
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4779.18, vol: 11788.21139918 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4778.2, vol: 39777.25429663 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4274.3844, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4780.3, vol: 4840.84169001 | Volume-weighted last average: 4778.58503167
mircea_popescu: !~calc 100 / 4778.58503167
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 100 / 4778.58503167 = 0.02092669678100348
mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.02092669 1E6MZ18LocVz4bLVTroKdpC9HTjzmiGaKe
mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.02092825 1134zUnfvDRKrmkALRuUuseJfzMKZBYzgv
ccmtacks: !!key mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have spamlulz to raise to that, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wlEbG/?raw=true
asciilifeform: plus another where 'Ukraine will be the first country in the world to legalize Bitcoin, Altcoins, Cryptobanks & ICO Trading. Be a part of history! Earn up to 20%...'
mircea_popescu: i guess they don't know what cyprus is huh.
asciilifeform: the ukrs did in fact recently put on some public spectacle where they hosted 'up and coming' shitcoinists, ethertards, et al
mircea_popescu: im sure.
mircea_popescu: you understand what concert promotion is yes ?
asciilifeform: aha same idea
mircea_popescu: all this "conference" bs is much a subleaf of that, for the loser/womenz to try hand at.
asciilifeform: i saw a little reportage, it was interestingly the ~exact same spamcarnival as seen prev in usa & elsewhere. oddly ~no homegrown orc scamola .
mircea_popescu: idiocy is not really cross-cultural in this strict formal sense.
mircea_popescu: local orcs have their own homegrown equivalents of graham-style "entrepreneurship".
asciilifeform: they also have 'problem' of having been inoculated with mmm
asciilifeform: my current understanding is that the ethertardium etc folx today target moneyed orcs, rather than homo-mmmicus .
phf: every single 'civilian' conversation in ru i had with friends and friends of friends at some point had bitcoin brought up, and obviously not coming from me. in fact not even as part of "talking technology" track
asciilifeform: phf: curious -- in what light brought up
phf: depending on the person either the context of "you're a banker, what do bitcoin investment" or else futurism "soon there won't be ИПОТЕКА everything will be in bitcions, have you heard?"
shinohai: lmao the U.S. futbol team was defeated 2-1 by *Trinidad and Tobago* and will not advance to the World Cup.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's relatives are ~all elderly emigre type and read volkischer beobachter and so naturally 100% of mention bitcoin is 'hey didja hear, that bitcoin thing finally HACKED!11!! soon valueless, president of imf proclaimed!' etc snoar
phf: (ipoteka is a ru word by way of greece for mortgage, i've not heard it before when growing up, but now at a certain age it's a main conversation subject/as well as advertisement, so i've been cracking up every time i hear it. i've been forcing it as a catch all term for "orc financial matters" to the confused looks of my ru friends)
shinohai: Since event is being held in Russia, inb4 Russian hackers fucked with the team
asciilifeform: phf: it was part of the fiction where 'no we didn't surrender to americans, your rape is a traditional ancient greek, dontchaknow, rape style, nuffin to do with usa'
phf: asciilifeform: well to do middle aged ru dentist types talked to me of bitcoin mining with a "please explain what the hell is going on". it's very much the opposite of the beobachter take, still as lulzy.
shinohai: !~later tell jurov http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/zOfhc/?raw=true
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: phf just about same here. i particularily enjoy situations where the "group expert" in "new trends" brings bitcoin to the group. particularily if 20something female.
mircea_popescu: and yes, finance & futurism.
asciilifeform: mas futuro!11
mircea_popescu: quite exactly, it's never futurism as the 1920s artistic blaseness. it's always "i will r entrepreneurize" or "i will marry well" or such, translated in the new paints.
mircea_popescu: it's a good thing the human rights crowd informs us "everyone wants to be and is an individual", because from experience i'd never have arrived at the idea.
asciilifeform: for some reason folx always go around 'i will get rich'-ing and somehow never 'i will find my quicklime pit'
mircea_popescu: i wonder why what is, snort snort.
mircea_popescu: lmao "atenCOIN is rebranding to blablaBITCOIN". oook ?
deedbot: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1723910 << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OxPgo/?raw=true
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu i had a thought re your http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1722036 algo : instead of one stream generator, have N independent ones (each with own seed, and not necessarily all same hash fn) running in parallel, xor together. every rsagram changes a seed in ONE of these at a time. strength is bought by sending rsagrams moar often
a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 23:13 mircea_popescu: basically the scheme is, you rsa a random bitfield, then you expand that into as much otp as you want by doing recursively Fi = hash(bitfield + Fi-1). there's a limit on i, obviously, which can be set to 1.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: other than more complexity, what's this buy me ?
mircea_popescu: and srsly don't later tell me when im right here wth.
asciilifeform: oh hey
asciilifeform: it buys you same thing http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-10#1402315 buys you -- strength of the strongest one
a111: Logged on 2016-02-10 19:29 asciilifeform: (incidentally, the problem of an inner cipher introducing known-plaintextisms is solved routinely by splitting the payload into xor-able halves, using rng, and enciphering each ~half~ with different cipher, rather than box-in-box composition)
asciilifeform: also eliminates the problem where there is a known relation between adjacent pieces of ciphertext where plaintext is known
asciilifeform: ( which you have if i+1 = H(i) )
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. so instead of one item with the above three problems, i now have three, and they're hashed together. so ?
asciilifeform: you can trivially prove that, for crypto break (vs e.g. side chans) enemy must break either a) all of the rsagrams b) all of the hashes
asciilifeform: they ain't hashed together, no
mircea_popescu: which he does.
mircea_popescu: this idea is not akin saying "if you are worried about your gallon jar breaking and spilling your rum, use 4 quart jars". works irl.
asciilifeform: each one in particular runs as mircea_popescu's old algo does. the otps, however, are xored to form the otp that gets used in the end.
mircea_popescu: but online, if he breaks one he breaks all 4.
asciilifeform: depends how breaks neh
mircea_popescu: not unlike*
mircea_popescu: well how. if hash function is preimage weak, they all will be.
asciilifeform: why ?
asciilifeform: you used N different functions neh.
mircea_popescu: cuz this exists now "?
mircea_popescu: i can't fucking find one. you want me to use n
asciilifeform: who said i had 1 much less n to offer with this recipe. i learn from the masters!11
mircea_popescu: that's nice, but tell you what, 1880 airplanes all failed if one did. and one did. any one.
asciilifeform: let's take however the variant where they all use same type of hash (e.g. keccak) but with independently FG-generated seeds. you still remove the i+i==H(i) known-relation problem.
mircea_popescu: to recapitulate for the noobs : the converse of "we have no strong security models for hash functions" does ALSO imply that we CAN NOT DISTINGUISH THEM.
mircea_popescu: and this isn't a joke : the "distinction" between rsa and ecc, whereby "ecc is faster" or "has longer effective key" is bs. ECC is exactly RSA in polar coordinates, if either fails mathematically both do.
asciilifeform: different conjecturedhardproblem.
mircea_popescu: discrete curves, diophantine equations, it's all the fucking same.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu has the proof that 'all the same' quite a few folx would be interested to read.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't know it's ACTUALLY different ; the expression sounds different, but there's a clear modulo space / elliptic curve relation.
asciilifeform: as it would be a p ?= np proof.
mircea_popescu: that was the point of all those galois fields discussions recently.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't have the proof it is, but that's irrelevant. you don't have the proof IT ISNT.
mircea_popescu: and so in certain context, such as this one, the correct assumption...
asciilifeform: i dun buy the 'no one has proven rsa to be hard so it dun matter how to implement it, let's use wet noodles and dried shit' argument.
mircea_popescu: yet nevertheless, the "g is a different hash function from f" "how do we know ?" "because george named his g and florence named hers f" is nonsense.
asciilifeform: after 3 generations of dried dog shit, quite conceivably the last actual crytoanalyst ate nagant 30yrs ago.
mircea_popescu: leaving us with this situation where "a different hash function" is not even a meaningful mathematical construction.
asciilifeform: proposed mechanism is applicable to 'stacking' any but the most screamingly rubbish prng. elementarily if the seeds are independent ( and they are, having been birthed from FG, ideally even from separate physical units ) the value of the streams at whatever index are also uncorrelated; and the xor will have period no shorter than of the longest period prng.
asciilifeform: ftr i dun particularly like this style of mechanism. it is suggested solely as continuation of the theme from linked thread, where 'make best of a cpu-poor situation with existing algos'
mircea_popescu: the problem is not the seeds per se, that fg solved.
mircea_popescu: the problem now is at the next link in the chain, the fs.
asciilifeform: proposed item is that if using 1 stream, knowledge of a segment of plaintext gives you something valuable to work with; if using 2+ -- nothing
mircea_popescu: but that nothing is entirely predicated of assumptions on how exactly "knowledge of segment" translates into the new world.
mircea_popescu: if you get to double your heads, so does eve : now she has knowledge of a segment half size in each stream. tada.
asciilifeform: i dun get it
asciilifeform: knowing xor tells you 0 about what went into the xor.
mircea_popescu: what ?
asciilifeform: exactly that
asciilifeform: see the otp thread
mircea_popescu: look. situation 1, there's one stream, and enemy knows 1kb.
mircea_popescu: you rpopose to move to situation two, where there's two streams AND YOU ALSO PROPOSE to not permit enemy to know 500bytes of each stream. why not ?
asciilifeform: 1 xor 0 -> 1; 0 xor 1 -> 1; 0 xor 0 -> 0; 1 xor 1 -> 0 in case forgot.
mircea_popescu: what is so SPECIAL about him that you get to move but he has to stay put ?
BingoBoingo: ty mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo does it check out ?
asciilifeform: ground rule of crypto is that enemy has access to ciphertext and the occasional bit of plaintext ( guessed. ) if he has access to inside of your box we ain't doing cryptology, it is called perimeter defense
mircea_popescu: and in other (lengthy) lulz : i cursed new girl with the old mpoe-pr curse, if you haven't guessed by now. the tardstalk this time is "black hat world", dedicated to "seo" and shit.
mircea_popescu: of relevance to republican interests -- https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/bhw-trade-volume.978942/
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : sad story of non-tmsr wot implemented by heathens. 60k or so ratings totally exchanged, item collapsed into uselessness. why ? because not had and therefore not observed the http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ bible.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 14:25 phf: but at the same time it's handy strawman: ~web of trust~ is broken, because our take on it is a piece of shit. i thought that's some pantsuit pattern discussed elsewhere
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ABout to find out
mircea_popescu: and "what should you do" ? why, "your own". but HOW ? oh... just... you know. your own.
asciilifeform: 'every time i add two numbers i get diff answer; arithmetic IS BROKEN'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point there was that enemy will have access to some plaintext of each stream.
asciilifeform: there's no 'plaintext of stream'
asciilifeform: the streams exist solely to be xored together into a pad
mircea_popescu: what shall i do with this guy.
asciilifeform: which then gets used as otp per mircea_popescu's original algo.
shinohai: lobbes: They were prolly pissed because he didn't bring a bucket of KFC too
asciilifeform: i'ma borrow method of apeloyee and post a pseudocode at some point, might become clearer.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevermind that waste of time/effort. think : when you say http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724006 you are actually imposing further conditions on the attacker than the null case.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 16:53 asciilifeform: proposed item is that if using 1 stream, knowledge of a segment of plaintext gives you something valuable to work with; if using 2+ -- nothing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in your gedankenattack, to what items does enemy have access, and how did he get it ?
mircea_popescu: lobbes how the fuck is bringing watermelons supposed to be discriminatory ? he wasn't gonna let the white guys have any ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't care, it makes no diff.
asciilifeform: it does tho
asciilifeform: always and for whatever system
mircea_popescu: nope. in fact, thinking about enemy in this specified sense is inviting error.
asciilifeform: if 'enemy is a telepath and can access anything', you don't have crypto, you have eating pistol or surrender
mircea_popescu: but you ALREADY granted he has an X.
asciilifeform: you gotta say which x in particular .
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Checks out
mircea_popescu: here's how you state the story : "I have a Q". here is the correct statement : "Of all the possible Q that could ever exist, I have Q, the one and sole and only."
mircea_popescu: here's what you move to : "I have a Q and a P". here's the correct statement : "Of all the possibles that may exist, Q and P, I have both".
mircea_popescu: now it should be apparent : in the first case you let attacker have X of Q. in the second case, you MUST let him have X of Q and Y of P.
mircea_popescu: if you do not, your hallucination of added security comes from your own arbitrary imposition of further constraints on attacker ; NOT from actual security.
asciilifeform: but this is nonsense. he has x because he is able to - sometimes - infer it from a partial knowledge of q, because relation between x and q stream was 1:1. with multiple generators, it is now many to many.
mircea_popescu: security modelling is not engineering, it's modelling.
asciilifeform straps on gas mask
mircea_popescu: the proper equivalent of "he has either x of q or y or p but not both" is equivalent to "i only use p, and he has an x but IT IS NEVER THE X HE NEEDS haha! take that bitch! murphy works for me!"
mircea_popescu: which is fun and fine and not useful.
mircea_popescu: !!rate ccmtacks 1 Internet Marketing kid.
mircea_popescu: and if anyone was wondering how much dough the etsy chicks make, and which ones, and out of what exactly, http://www.craftcount.com/category.php?cat=3&subcat=4
asciilifeform: i thought 'etsy' et al were long ago colonized by folx farming out grunt labour to pakistani etc
asciilifeform: and 0 to do with american chixen knitting
asciilifeform: (0 reason why pakifarm cannot use name, mug, an' styling of a chix )
mircea_popescu: should i have said " how much dough the etsy chicks don't make" ?
asciilifeform: can also sum how much they 'dun make' at nasdaq; and while we're at it, how much fish they don't have at the proverbial sov fish counter
asciilifeform: how much meat -- at meat counter.
mircea_popescu: but it's with numbers!
mircea_popescu: IT HAS LINK PROOF
asciilifeform: 'So don't be fooled by post count, age, whatever. Fine. What are you fooled by?' << lol
mircea_popescu: hm ?
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market-all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
asciilifeform tried, and failed, to distinguish linked site from the usual inmate-fat-powered spamulag
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4841.76, vol: 11479.89856307 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4835.9, vol: 37614.14524748 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4274.3844, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4844.1, vol: 4503.82418578 | Volume-weighted last average: 4837.84417367
BingoBoingo: So, in new lulz... Telestra is soliciting business by posing as independent datacenters
mircea_popescu: too bad you can't use bitcoin for anything. must be why it's crashing
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo heh!
asciilifeform: shitcoin at ~0.06 incidentally.
mircea_popescu: scratch the surface of "diversity" and "World of choice" juyst a little, admire the self-same oroborus maggot.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i run into these continuously
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh, the little wolverine huh. she's one spirited hussy.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sorta like comp market in 1995 was superficially similar to walking into one from '85, except for the detail where all of the 'different comps you can CHOOSE from' run microshit on x86
mircea_popescu: in the sense the 1985 market was similar to that from 1975, except all the "make your own computer" boxes were now made by ibm
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This one was Pacnet, suggesting at least Pacific regional thing. Yet "Channel Director, East Region" of Telestra answered inquiry with "40 Wall Street, Floor 44, New York, NY 10005" in his signature
asciilifeform: 'wouldja like a dell or a hp'
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo basically, the difference between orcs and niggers is that the niggers know they're niggers, the orcs still have delusions.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile teh jewsuitis run all the things.
BingoBoingo: Eh, there's still some pretty legit spelling azns working on making numbers
BingoBoingo: Just WTF was with wix.com Thailand
mircea_popescu: so you'd think. but then how many esl azns do you bed, cuz nobody speaks the truth outside the bedroom.
BingoBoingo: That happens at later screening. The igarment.net people seem too impressively targeted to be Telestra so far.
asciilifeform: in other 'we'll steal from tmsr, why not, and WEDIDITFIRST' lulzies, https://archive.is/kvyXQ
mircea_popescu: lol, libre planet.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, by now the tmsr schadenfreunde is probably peaking. all sorts of wanna-be groups that "have been doing it for longer" and bla bla.
asciilifeform: ( same derps as hosted the koch talk linked earlier, loox like )
mircea_popescu: "libre", fine example.
BingoBoingo: lol @ "Vagrant Cascadian"
mircea_popescu: "LibrePlanet was held March 25-26 in Cambridge, Massachusetts at the Stata Center on the campus of MIT." << whole story.
asciilifeform: various lulz from same, e.g. https://archive.is/D1gJA >> ' McHardy first approaches a company to tell it that its product is not in compliance; he makes a modest demand (say €6,000-7,000) for his engineering time. He also asks the company to acknowledge and sign his cease-and-desist order; under German law that turns it into a contract. Once that has been done, sometime later McHardy will come back with other products that are also
asciilifeform: not in compliance and require that the company pay a penalty for each, which can total to €500,000 or more'
asciilifeform: twist : gpl-flavoured
asciilifeform: in very other lulz, at most recent count 'p' stands at 3.2kloc, of which 2k is ffa ( this is inclusive of comments, tests, and commented alt-incarnations of certain routines, as discussed in l0gz )
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 03:49 asciilifeform: i just counted gpg 1.4.10 : 156,436 loc -- and that ain't counting the autoconf liquishit, or the libs it pulls in
mircea_popescu: for completeness, re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1723997 : the reason this is an entirely spurious objection is that we're not discussing known-weak vs unknown-how-hard items but straight up unknown-hardness vs unknown-hardness.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 16:41 asciilifeform: i dun buy the 'no one has proven rsa to be hard so it dun matter how to implement it, let's use wet noodles and dried shit' argument.
mircea_popescu: and also worth nothingt that known-weak items usually are known in the hard crypto sense, of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718087
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 00:14 mircea_popescu: whereas in the correct, crypto-relevant understanding of "hash is hard", what is said is "B can make grounded promise that his effort will require at least X work"
asciilifeform: afaik yer either in 'it's astrology, so hire cheapest' mode or yer not - tertium non datur
mircea_popescu: eg caesar cipher, as discussed in http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto/#footnote_0_49969 is known-upper-bound, known-average-case etcetera.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but have to keep astrology classes separate. then within any class, yes value function=1 for all items.
asciilifeform: the 1 thing we have from von neumann's proof, however, other than otp per se, is the xor primitive, which provably composes N ~independent~ items of variant hardnesses, into the hardness of hardest input.
mircea_popescu: yes. to uise it, must first prove independence.
mircea_popescu: not assume independence, not merely outsource the burden of proof to government, etc.
asciilifeform: if the number of generators is odd, the xor cannot make you worse off than before even if somehow they all became identical. however if even 1 of them is genuinely independent, you get the strength of that one. is what the 'ratchet' aspect of the xor is about.
mircea_popescu: 1 is odd.
asciilifeform: with 1 you get fixed known relationship between adjacent stream chunks.
asciilifeform: ( tangentially, asciilifeform disrecommends the use of even numbers of XORed rngs in any system. incl. FGs. if enemy can somehow contrieve to tie the wires together, you will end up with 0,0,0.... )
asciilifeform: ( 'but what about the even # of subunits in fg itself? ' -- that's what the red lamp, and much of the internal logic, is about )
asciilifeform: !!up BHopkins
asciilifeform: BHopkins: hello ?
asciilifeform: who might you be, BHopkins ?
BHopkins: Just looking for a guy named zinx
mircea_popescu: zinx ?!
mircea_popescu: oh right, blackhat mod guy. how goes BHopkins ?
asciilifeform: i was about to say 'i've never heard of a zinx' but it was in linked item earlier
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 16:58 mircea_popescu: of relevance to republican interests -- https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/bhw-trade-volume.978942/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same here lmao. girl's been raising hell over there apparently.
BHopkins: Ya, MP, how are you?
mircea_popescu: not bad, actually!
mircea_popescu: so this orm thing... is it what they call old style media agencies ? a sort of ogilvy&mather for the internet age ?
BHopkins: Exactly! We suppress negative listings and replace them with positive and controllable assets.
mircea_popescu: aha. so : there's a bit of mismatch here, whereby the republic is powerful and rich, whereas the perception in usg owned peon farms is disjunct.
mircea_popescu: that something you might want to work on ?
BHopkins: I'm not interested in working with peon farmers :)
mircea_popescu: let us rephrase then. "whereas the perception in silicon valley spam farms, like facebook, huffpo, reddit, wikipedia etc".
mircea_popescu: better ?
BHopkins: Much better...In a nutshell, we do what gets results and what works. Sometimes that is high quality content, but other times, it's lower quality link building.
BHopkins: End of the day, the results are what we're looking for
mircea_popescu: here's the gist of the problem : when rando, such as for instance bill lawsky, stands up and says "we made these rules" bla bla, nobody in those verticals springs up the obvious "what proof do you have". if i say "i destroyed ETH/BCH/whatever, and here's the proof" the same nobodies come up with contorted nonsense like "ok but what proof do you have your proof is proofing?!?!?"
mircea_popescu: this is a ridiculous state of affairs, and it will have to be returned to normalcy.
shinohai munches on tea and biscuits, likes where this thread is going ......
shinohai: Fuck, I jinxed it
BHopkins: I guess I'll he returns :)
BHopkins: oh back, good
BHopkins: I've worked in this vertical a few different times, along with other verticals that have similar issues.
asciilifeform: BHopkins: out of curiosity, which vertical 'had similar issues' ?
mircea_popescu: (bill lawsky was this sort of mini-preet bharara, however briefly, meanwhile... retired.)
BHopkins: @asciilifeform stock trading has sites like tradingschools.org that are essentially one mans negative opinions on everything except what he's selling.
asciilifeform: i thought that described ~whole of www
mircea_popescu: may be a difference of scope, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: in perhaps more interesting questions, do you own any bitcoin BHopkins ?
BHopkins: As for my recommendation, we're not trying to educate the general public through the search results. What we want to do is ensure they only find positive information when the search for a keyword.
BHopkins: Nope, no bitcoin yet for me. But I've worked with a few other companies in this industry over the years.
mircea_popescu: would you like one ?
BHopkins: I had to look up the current price, and the answer is yes :)
mircea_popescu: post an address.
BHopkins: I think I did it right: 12taDFRdimNTHx1xoUkUZWj3nrE4js6LM6
mircea_popescu: BHopkins are you sure it is yours ? lest we blow up a whole flat's worth of hookers and blow.
shinohai: I could payroll South American camhoes for a year on that lol
BHopkins: That's what CoinBase is telling me...I clicked the "Receive" in the BTC Wallet section
mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 1 12taDFRdimNTHx1xoUkUZWj3nrE4js6LM6
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, coinbase. bitpay / blockchain.info dun stand a chance.
asciilifeform: they stood a chance?!
mircea_popescu: BHopkins will be processed later today ; at which point -- congrats, your first bitcoin!
BHopkins: I almost feel a little dirty not playing by the conventional rules of money :)
asciilifeform still not sure how (other than ceremonial aspect) this mechanism beats sending coins the old-fashioned way, from own actual node -- but it's still neat that trinque built a thing sturdy enough to run with coin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform public.
mircea_popescu: also allows to record something not before recorded : intention-to-pay.
mircea_popescu: it gives human flesh to the bitcoin steel skeleton.
asciilifeform: could achieve this without hotwallet, by signing proclamations. but yes this is convenient.
mircea_popescu: convenience beats correctness every time.
BHopkins: MP from what I understand, you're looking to clean up your search results?
mircea_popescu: kinda why it's important to develop correct conveniences.
mircea_popescu: BHopkins nah. i personally couldn't care less about "bad" things. for one thing, i've yet to meet the entity intelligent to say something meaningfully bad about me.
mircea_popescu: no, traditionally the job is to either get interviews placed if the client is smarter than the press, or else to get reviews/testimonials/etc placed if the press is smarter than the client.
mircea_popescu: given the situation in the field, interviews are probably the only workable approach.
BHopkins: If not cleaning up the negative aspects of the search results, what would be your end goal?
mircea_popescu: you mean other than a bevy of the younger "journalist" interns realising they're wasting their time in office clothes in new york and joining me naked in costa rica ?
BHopkins: Don't be too judgmental of journalist "interns". I create some of those for our marketing purposes :)
mircea_popescu: lol ok.
mircea_popescu: BHopkins do you have a pgp key ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai inadvertently my foot. huge problem for all ad platforms.
asciilifeform: shinohai: ~same thing sank yahoo's ad service few yrs back
BHopkins: @MP no PGP key, do I need one?
asciilifeform: ( somehow, not hosting arbitrary js/flasholade isn't an option for these, go figure )
mircea_popescu: BHopkins yes. do you know what pgp is ?
BHopkins: Vaguely, but not enough to have used it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're mostly all based on user idiocy, clicks links ends up windows'd.
mircea_popescu: BHopkins well, so get one. no way to do private communications without pgp. also no good way to have an identity online.
shinohai: Ah Yahoo .... I was able to upload a BEeF hook inside an ad there once, no one batted an eye.
BHopkins: MP I have a PGP key now...
a111: Logged on 2017-09-26 04:38 elaineo: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wGuML/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: and don't lose it!
mircea_popescu: i'll rate you, which means you'll be able to self-voice so i don't have to keep patching it half hour at a time.
BHopkins: that work?
mircea_popescu: it might. if not, use p.bvulpes.com for best results.
deedbot: 252F0E9554CF3C1AAD91C3B50D2798D6B27564C8 registered as BHopkins.
mircea_popescu: !!rate BHopkins 1 blackhatworld mod/marketing guy
BHopkins: I draw the line at the dark web. bitcoin, PGP, what's next? :)
mircea_popescu: that's about it. what is this dark web ?
BHopkins: Ok great, we briefly talked about marketing and interviews. Did you want to do a series of interviews?
mircea_popescu: that could work.
BHopkins: If not cleaning up the SERPs, was the idea to just share your expertise?
mircea_popescu: mmm. it's not a matter of sharing expertise as such. it's a matter of breaking the fake media, let's say.
mircea_popescu: BHopkins say /query deedbot then say !!up to it and decrypt its challenge.
mircea_popescu: let's see ?
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
shinohai: Srry BingoBoingo .... jhvh1 down for a bit
BingoBoingo: It's ok, as long as you stay more responsive than Serbia
BHopkins: It just says "Get your OTP" and then gives me a key. What do I do with that key?
BingoBoingo: !!v OTPGOESHERE
BingoBoingo: ^ WHat you do BHopkins
BingoBoingo: In other news of the day, In USia girls can now be boyscouts
shinohai: inb4 traps start selling me cookies
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i guess it was decided that they have arses like anybody, ergo compatible
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Boy scouts are popcorn, not cookies
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Possibru
BingoBoingo: In other, lesser struggles in the republic: I now have to decide if I care enough to contest speeding ticket in Appelate court
BingoBoingo: !!up BHopkins
shinohai: Well see BingoBoingo, I figure its only a matter of time before they DO allow cookie sales and boys to wear brownie uniforms if they wish.
shinohai: Inclusion ftw
BingoBoingo: shinohai: You don't understand. Two completely seperate organizations. The girl scouts are already threatening lawyers!
asciilifeform: loox like usa simply aligning with classic su ( and german ) tradition, where there's 1 org
asciilifeform: ( 'pioneers' and 'hitlerjugend' respectively )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Could be they decide Baden Powel was racis and colonialist, and Charlottesville his statues
mircea_popescu: did anyone else want reddit accounts ?
BHopkins: !!v QIMA74TC/9ZkuPbAQ//dXLWRcdua3d38yoq2bMrc85MfX6m1b2GsyLG7zi82yJw a2JML9jdmUs9XFJwc9JMdY5bqWNLSJDIN9EWErKP5NtjpQv2f4thKANgoE0h4xBD 8AswzFMyL2o1yMhc9Wqs6ErsK9doPyw2HQToBGe/xiq9Up9s0AkYwci4Qe/8cTlE yYe8UIlXMcOfGdeNjUKb5GEBEFaIAa6SrxiHZ7Tly1o1wHzIMqIg7mhm/2iaE7yP TR5ZmhAZNXgflaVTE0L49iftxW53uDNFf+PMt9359kjV1bMWQ8VTyCv2/gdD+jS4 R2H9gKkbYB0oqf5Jyjonp82dkd5AQS3AMG/0JouIkzMhkMDRl2sDqQ2dn6JcVS+l 4+5FyG9azu8QNA6T0UbnhqdwMo9p1VzhNyhsCy2U7XFr
mircea_popescu: BHopkins you have to decrypt it.
mircea_popescu: that's the whole point, by proving you can decrypt something encrypted to your key you prove you are you.
BHopkins: It's not about proof, it's about my personal inability :)
BingoBoingo smells 30% chance of newcomer private key paste in the wind
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: pretty sure it happened before
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i dun think so ; tho it has happened before.
asciilifeform: it's even happened that folx mis-point 'this end toward enemy', lol
BHopkins: I can confirm 100% chance of newb to PGP
mircea_popescu: is that the fertile soil of afghanistan, from back in the day a different empire was going there to die ?
asciilifeform: could be anywhere, item is still made
asciilifeform: according to legend, inscription originates with vietnam, where malingerers would eat small bits
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> did anyone else want reddit accounts ? << If they are anything like mine comes with bonus long walk to sanity through personal transformation
BingoBoingo: Well, probably a natural fit for the typical target market
BingoBoingo can't believe it's only another 5 hours until the latest round of "Who wants to fleece a Gringo" emails pour in
BingoBoingo: !!up BHopkins
asciilifeform: in very very other olds, http://jeanjacques.lacrampe.free.fr/webada/doc/gnat/gcc_10.html#SEC316 << -fpreserve-control-flow flag indeed appears to work ( but only up to -O1 )
deedbot: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724173 << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1z1hc/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: speaking of white weddings, http://78.media.tumblr.com/f038ef263132963010e1fe59cef09a0f/tumblr_o9b2387yoc1vuywi8o4_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, sears canada closing altogether
mircea_popescu: such buffett.
BingoBoingo: That's what happens when you double down on being a lumberless lumberyard
mircea_popescu: i thought they mostly sold overpriced japanese watches and bad kitchenware.
BingoBoingo: That's what they try to sell. They mostly end up selling tools (Which they sold to Stanley Black and Decker) and lawnmowers. Also assorted catalog novelty schlock other retailers won't touch
BingoBoingo: "Fishtank coffee table" etc
mircea_popescu: just had this 3kg apple pie come out of the oven so i have trouble feeling for radioshack-of-the-day
BingoBoingo still pissed off he is going to have to take speeding ticket to appellate court
mircea_popescu: BUT. no maga yet huh. 12k laid off.
BingoBoingo: No MAGA until bum fuck nowhere court respects muh authoritie
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo make sure you claim admirality copyright indemnification:warranty or how it went.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Officer admitted on the stand he was using radar device in a manner inconsistent with its labelling and contrary to NHTSA standards has not been certified in radar use since the 1990's
BingoBoingo: Officer could also offer no answer to "What is the doppler effect" "What is cosine error" "What is cosine" "When was patrol vehicle spedometer calibrated"
BingoBoingo: "I press the button, it shoots out beams and gives a speed" "But how do the beams give a speed" "They just do"
BingoBoingo: In other lulz from first HK to wake up: iAdvantage Software, Inc. Parent Company: American Agricultural Services, Inc.
BingoBoingo: Oh, it looks like Hong Kong is waking up 2 hours earlier today
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Too early for purpose built hall? http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ggO94/?raw=true
BingoBoingo finding Chinese trait of internal buck passing discussion happening in front of customer over email
BingoBoingo: Such stotting behavior
BingoBoingo: Gotta show the customer who is the boss and customer is being dumped onto
BingoBoingo: *who the customer is being dumped onto
mircea_popescu: sounds not bad.
BingoBoingo: It's a refreshing change of pace
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Dickson (unsure if singular or plural): "Thanks for your enquiry, we will study your requirements and get back to you ASAP."