asciilifeform: thestringpuller: at the risk of repeating the words of the cartoon yoga master (who offered the n00b a bed of 1 nail) -- 'gotta start small'
trinque: asciilifeform: explain what locks when you're inserting into your keys table
trinque: the "concurrent" in acid ought to mean this doesn't happen
asciilifeform: trinque: how might i go about determining the answer to this ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 04:32 mod6: (my guess here, is that you're inserting heavily on the same table as you are trying to read from)
trinque: you oughtn't do that
trinque: sure thing is hateful, but you have one, can't use it wrong and lament
trinque: can you use a materialized view there?
trinque: to generate your work data, meanwhile inserting into the table the view reads from?
asciilifeform: i have nfi what this sentence means
trinque: process being "refresh materialized view" -> perform work on matview -> repeat
trinque: ok so there are materialized views, yes? stored query the results of which are written to a table
trinque: write one of those and perform your factoring work upon it
asciilifeform: stored query?
asciilifeform: trinque: understand, the gcd thing takes up ~3 minutes of db time daily. not a significant factor at all.
trinque: haben sie ein postgresql?
trinque: what db is this then
asciilifeform: postgres, sure,
trinque: ok, you said that you are reading and writing heavily to the same table
asciilifeform: slow even when 0 writing.
asciilifeform: established this today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you deeply against giving the man access on the machine ?
mircea_popescu: seems cheaper than trying to learn sqlish.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do not particularly want to hand off the project, no.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 04:33 asciilifeform: well noshit
asciilifeform: plan is to rewrite the thing, this spring, with 0 sql.
asciilifeform: trinque: does here exist such a thing as a profiler for pgsql ?
trinque: https://wiki.postgresql.org/images/4/45/Explaining_EXPLAIN.pdf << sorry for the pdf, but there's "explain"
trinque: By default costs are in units of “time a sequential 8kb block read takes
asciilifeform: ty trinque , i will make use of this.
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6657 << "I dont know why the state doesnt just put the condemned prisoner under with a general anesthetic and then cut off his head with a sawzall. They are clearly over-thinking the whole process."
mircea_popescu: or vice-versa.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there is a surprising tradition of this. i recall reading about a fella in new york who was permitted to build himself an electrically-operated (button in his hand) 'upward jerker' gallows system, and hang on it
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc ~all electric chairs were built by prisoners (though not usually ones scheduled to sizzle)
BingoBoingo: Much .gov furniture is built that way
BingoBoingo: Look who's presumably back http://qntra.net/2017/02/its-not-rape-if-her-uterus-meanwhile-absorbed-it/#comment-87580
mats: TIL about the Feynman Technique, via http://calnewport.com/blog/2012/10/26/mastering-linear-algebra-in-10-days-astounding-experiments-in-ultra-learning
diana_coman: "While there will always be people with unfair advantages" bwahahaa
diana_coman: by this time I rather expect that the underlying truth there is that MIT's "computer science curriculum" simply is watered down
mats: coursera's 'learning how to learn' is also quite good
phf: asciilifeform: did you get the new and improved edition? or a pirate pdf of the original? i'm not sure what the warez status of it is, but i can potentially do a proper scan of the first ed
phf: i picked up https://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-Problem/dp/080271529X that someone left on the train, it's a popsci history of longitude problem, which in turn pointed me to the gould book, which i found in a local collectors' bookstore
phf: i can't vouch for the current edition (with the colourful chronometer on the cover), becaues comments side that it's not just a reprent, but a revised text based on gould's notes.
phf: *comments said
phf: (i don't know what happened to above sentence. india make me spell good)
phf: i wonder if "scott young" used bulletproof coffee every morning, to prep himself up for mit ciriculum study. did he organize his studies using GTD??? what kind of organizer did he use, and where can i buy it? the audience wants to know answers to these vital questions
mats: huh, first i've heard of 'bulletproof coffee', how hip
mats: >grass-fed butter and Brain-octane oil
mats: i've been away from the valley too long
phf: the whole vibe of the piece that you linked is that. "here's 10 books i wrote on how to be a leading brain surgeon. i myself am not a brain surgeon of course too hard lol, i just made all the money writing books like that"
mats: i'll add a trigger warning if there's a next time
phf: i'm 2 weeks away from having to go back to washington, dc. i'm over the hump, and doubling down on hate.
mats: my sympathies
mats: efforts to retake western half of mosul have begun
danielpbarron: !~later tell thestringpuller http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ICRUI/?raw=true
jhvh1: danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615505 << just to note for asciilifeform and given that i didn't see it mentioned in the pdf (could have easily missed it), `EXPLAIN (ANALYZE, BUFFERS) $yoursqlquery` *is* useful. "buffers" will also show how much of postgres cache was hit during query execution, etc. etc.; it's quite nice.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 05:18 trinque: https://wiki.postgresql.org/images/4/45/Explaining_EXPLAIN.pdf << sorry for the pdf, but there's "explain"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AD919DC40487AD461B8113F407DECC7E6628E95894E12DDB6ED1197357ADBBCF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1063...0329 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.8.131.52 (ssh-rsa key from 184.108.40.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FC3FC7E23DFBDF44C302E52DF687914488B86411CE7929DBBB3035551714DC64 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1292...5723 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '220.127.116.11 (ssh-rsa key from 18.104.22.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AD919DC40487AD461B8113F407DECC7E6628E95894E12DDB6ED1197357ADBBCF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1292...5723 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '22.214.171.124 (ssh-rsa key from 126.96.36.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FC3FC7E23DFBDF44C302E52DF687914488B86411CE7929DBBB3035551714DC64 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1135...0847 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.8.131.52 (ssh-rsa key from 184.108.40.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN)
Framedragger: 220.127.116.11 << running comware, "Comware is an industry-leading provider of network security solutions including products, professional services, and implementation. Our elite team of experts understands complex security issues ..."
mircea_popescu: "ultra learning" sounds a lot like "i don't wanna learn, what can you make me out of HFCS and corporate legal advice ?"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger pity it's not cornware.
mircea_popescu: phf you're exactly right. this current maga-able us economy consisting of "we'll be rich by doing each other's laundry" is not in any sense novel, or invented by the pantsuit mcclinton. in fact, on a frank review of the extant record, the only properly said us-american culture is THIS. in between the quack salesman and the itinerant scammer you find the neoprotestant-innovative firebrand preacher, the systematizing industrial
mircea_popescu: ist and everyone else.
mircea_popescu: if there is to be something substantially murican, to stand with the russki "soul of the peasant", it's a badly typeset secret big town learnin' france doesn't want ms cormack of potato, idaho to know.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-enter-failville/ << this, basically. and it's pre 1800s.
mircea_popescu: (not the items depicted, but the vein.)
mircea_popescu: that's the one, only, true and authentic soul of america and naught else. apparent alternatives are always and without exception strictly a) tolerated imports with no substantial intermingling with local idiocy and b) only tolerated because of exterior pressure ; if usian CAN get away with no longer pretending to frenchness, germanity, etc he most definitely will.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-07#1612205 << http://archive.is/3itGU << Looks like Zuckerberg responded with a manifesto of socialism
a111: Logged on 2017-02-07 20:07 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/02/socialist-seek-to-replace-socialist-zuckerberg-on-facebook-board-for-insufficient-socialism/ << Qntra - Socialist Seek To Replace Socialist Zuckerberg On Facebook Board For Insufficient Socialism
mircea_popescu: blessfully, there is a large contingent of young women who deeply intuit the whole thing's bullshit ; which is the most that can be said for the place. making the anglophone ideological america VERY much a "city of jerusalem". total jews, these folk.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1507131 << in related news, gbyers, the original systems guru of ccl, who responded to every "modernization" attempt with "sure, if you can explain me what's the point" stepped down. within a day, clozure cl was moved to github, with current list of "issues" https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues. in case anyone was wondering "what happens when linus steps down"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 15:43 phf: so i push back on the guy, rme says "let's change subject", within minutes guy goes "it's late here i gotta go to sleep"
phf: guy who snatched mcclim from g_l, and who otherwise got a somewhat cold treatment from the ccl core before joined the channel the next day with "i guess i should subscribe to mailing list :)"
mircea_popescu: oocl when ?
phf: the wrecker must wreck, for as soon as he stops he becomes the wrecked.
mircea_popescu: !~google "viermi neadormiti"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: A avea viermi ( neadormiți ) = a fi fi neastâmpărat, a nu-și găsi locul: <http://www.dex.ro/expresie/e345-a-avea-viermi-neadormitia-fi-fi-neastamparat-a-nu-si-gasi-locul>; Sfânta Evanghelie după Marcu :: Capitolul 9 - Biblia Ortodoxa: <http://www.bibliaortodoxa.ro/carte.php%3Fid%3D53%26cap%3D9>; VIERME - Definiția din dicționar - Resurse lingvistice - Archeus.ro: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: expression famously used by elena ceausescu wrt the general populace. very much in this line of exasperation, they'll chew everything these schmucks.
mircea_popescu: it's the funny fate of people at the top of a socialist dictatorship to become very right wing ever as their populace drifts ever more into ustardism.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ADA84AFFAA8CC77417EF485B4306614CDDCA484ECBFF3F0666C6B54CEC530F14 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1464...2629 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip52.113.ez.net.id. ID JK)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ADA84AFFAA8CC77417EF485B4306614CDDCA484ECBFF3F0666C6B54CEC530F14 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1504...6199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip52.113.ez.net.id. ID JK)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/68D7DA6C32B215EB8DE1DCC614A7650E8983D892EF2A36B75C31B75EBCDF80FA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1472...7739 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (azlink.monrovia.com. US)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/68D7DA6C32B215EB8DE1DCC614A7650E8983D892EF2A36B75C31B75EBCDF80FA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1559...6377 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (azlink.monrovia.com. US)
mircea_popescu: related to the discussion of how "bitcoin corrupts".
phf: dormiti from dormire? sort of worms don't sleep?
mircea_popescu: yes, unquenchable worms.
mircea_popescu: (the source was 80s dispute wrt to general public's apparent bottomless appetite for purchasing luxury goods -- in eastern communism this includes meat, washing machines, electricity, etc -- for which they won't even have the fucking decency to pay in hard currency, but aim to use the worthless reminbo internal scrip)
mircea_popescu: more or less a "there's no fucking end to the amount of chinese crap these idiots would """buy""" if they had credit cards. and no, there isn't.
phf: meanwhile in the alternative, Zardoz future of computing http://68.media.tumblr.com/56069cfb482020c2a964a581385d99d2/tumblr_olj5dqSF5u1uu4f9zo1_500.jpg
phf: i don't have a smart comment, "exasperation" is the correct term in this case. i'm looking in awe at the turnaround time though, some kind of "modernization" fast track right there
mircea_popescu: nah, it's mostly because they're so unsubstantial.
Framedragger: github as a service, 24h delivery, extra feature "project visual identity" https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/14 4free
mircea_popescu: "what moves faster than clouds ?" "nothing really" "how come clouds haven't taken over the world ?" "but in their way... they have."
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 16:12 mircea_popescu: (the source was 80s dispute wrt to general public's apparent bottomless appetite for purchasing luxury goods -- in eastern communism this includes meat, washing machines, electricity, etc -- for which they won't even have the fucking decency to pay in hard currency, but aim to use the worthless reminbo internal scrip)
asciilifeform: on my globe, ru, ua, etc is east of ro.
mircea_popescu: yes ?
asciilifeform: and we had meat. more than modern usa..
mircea_popescu does the jewish armshake.
phf: of course, the sum of all moves is insubstantial, but the totality is going to produce the gnupg effect. 5000 renames for 5 meaningful changes, meanwhile yet another project to add to naggum emacs archive
asciilifeform: phf: every time you find one of these, i think 'holy shit, it was alive until now?!'
mircea_popescu: phf why are you even getting back to dc in the first place ?
mats: usg bombs another funeral party http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38989662
mircea_popescu: justified ; their musical instruments weren't up to code. people are irresponsible, you could start a fire using the wrong kind of trumpet. and fire is dangerous, whole fucking party could die because of it.
phf: i need to move a handful of things into storage, throw out the bulk and handover my apartment back to landlord. mostly i don't want to lose my books, but i'm going to split them between a handful of trusted locations
mircea_popescu: works i guess
asciilifeform: also bbc today: 'Viewpoint: Let's smash crime by scrapping big banknotes. The man who came up with "demonetisation" on whether India did it right.'
mircea_popescu: it's funny though, the "advanced" "our" democracy superstate slowly decides that it doesn't WANT to do all the fundamental things it parasitized, such as cash supply.
mircea_popescu: the "people will route around you" point is somehow not obvious.
mircea_popescu: if i lived in india i'd strike gold rounds, with my face on one side and my crown on the other. and if the "indian our democracy" doesn't like it, they can eat hot ieds.
mircea_popescu: Kingdom of India, rape all the bureaucrat 16yo daughters. sounds like a party.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0D9639BF7C77C0C1C6C8DC97BF567111B98430E83DF511DD1A4693F6586D9A66 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1661...9029 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0D9639BF7C77C0C1C6C8DC97BF567111B98430E83DF511DD1A4693F6586D9A66 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1695...3139 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SE)
phf: that's basically what they do her re strike gold rounds. according to a gold seller for an average indian wedding he sells roughly 2kg worth of jewelry. he says that different sellers will have slightly different numbers (based on how prestigious they are), but he's sort of in the middle of normal distribution
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure usd currently fills the 'gold mircea_popescu dubloon' niche there, just as in other orclands
phf: three biggest stores downtown: wedding saris, a department store with everything, 6 storied gold vendor
mircea_popescu: a properly minted gold coin would be worth about $1500
mircea_popescu: phf yeah. gold was already "A problem" in the soviet meaning of the term in india. with this idiocy, they're making it a fully gold standard place.
mircea_popescu: if it weren't so fucking hot i'd go actually.
phf: every bank has a "gold loan" department, presumably to pawn the wedding jewelry on the as needed basis. you see this dynamic as you step of the airplane. the idea that currency ban hits anyone but the poorest of the poor is ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they;re thinking.
asciilifeform: phf: the wedding trinkets -- are of pure gold?
asciilifeform: or alloy
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BE32AE9463A4BD3735F0D5965C7D7DEBDDA8ECCB6AAC0916D8B7F9EA09D2B284 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1709...4493 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (qq194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BE32AE9463A4BD3735F0D5965C7D7DEBDDA8ECCB6AAC0916D8B7F9EA09D2B284 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1778...7833 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (qq194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
mircea_popescu: well, jewelry gold. pure gold is not handle-able.
phf: asciilifeform: 18k+
phf: based on what it is. if it's supposed to cary a stone of some sort, 18, then goes up
phf: you can walk in, ask for a theme, and you're going to be presented with a range of crude looking trinkets, the kind that you would see as costume jewelry in the "little princess" corner of the store
phf: except at 22k, sold by weight
mircea_popescu: sounds about right.
mircea_popescu: land of the fucking gypsies what more can be said.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey it beats 'land of 401k'
mircea_popescu: i wasn't proposing that as a substitute lol.
mircea_popescu: fortunately cunts of all subcultures work. the rest...
thestringpuller: !~later tell danielpbarron done
jhvh1: thestringpuller: The operation succeeded.
phf: unrelatedly, someone ported franz's clim2 to ccl, but instead of using ffi to motif backend, they used an original generas clx backend, that is still there. the result is ugly, broken on mac's x11, but works, and potentially could be improved and optimized by interested parties. http://glyf.org/screenshots/clim2-clx.png
asciilifeform: phf: interesting -- what, gotta wonder, did crapple mutilate, to result in this
asciilifeform laboured under the possibly naive impression that x11 was 'in stone' for eons
phf: i'm not sure, but i remember you have to put a handful of magic incantations to live fix clx on genera to make it connect to crapple's x11
thestringpuller: !#s thinking man's doom
a111: 2 results for "thinking man's doom", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thinking%20man%27s%20doom
thestringpuller: have to wonder did asciilifeform play thief?
phf: but judging by the nature of damage, it's probably somewhere in the SHAPE extension
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: of course
phf: actually, no, shape is for cutting windows
asciilifeform: in re earlier lulz, https://archive.is/xXiAF >> 'Today her total expenses average more than $300,000 a month for the product, plus around $30,000 for cabs, cell phones, rent for various safe houses, and other administrative costs. She makes a profit of $27,000 a week. “I like seeing a pile of cash in my living room,” she says.'
asciilifeform: 'The Green Angels, she tells me, are selling a fantasy of an attractive, well-educated, presentable young woman who wants to get you high—a slightly more risqué Avon lady. Not all of the Angels are working models, but they are all young and attractive. In eight years, they have never been busted by the cops. The explanation is simple: Good-looking girls don’t get searched.'
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i must say. when I put 40 hours into the first thief over vacation, definitely repeated that phrase to myself a lot: "thinking man's doom" such an apt three word description for the game.
mats: this chick pays way too much for pot from cali she could be getting from maine, vermont, new hampshire, ...
mats: amateur hour, this, shipping bulk pot through fucking fedex
mats: you can afford rent for safe houses but can't be fucked to develop a connect in the northeast? and drive the stuff down like sane people?
thestringpuller: people grow good weed on the east coast?
thestringpuller: news to me
trinque: people grow weed everywhere there are buildings
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sounds a lot like someone read trilema on the topic lel.
mircea_popescu: mats the newspaper version of everything will be braindamaged. ever read any "science" from nature etc ?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller weed is a swamp thing not a desert thing. grows best in wash dc.
trinque: I'm going to aim the deeds service at #trilema-trinque for a few minutes to test.
trinque: the rewrite of the bot is launching shortly
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun
trinque: looks like everything works, but we'll see what chaos says
trinque: I'll be around all day.
mats: mircea_popescu: yes, isn't nature one of the better 'open access' journals?
mircea_popescu: better in the sense that better than hawker.
mircea_popescu: this is shockingly common. girl's schoolmate went to posh art school, ran out of dough, moved into one of her sculptures.
mats: 'performance art'
trinque: !!key trinque
trinque: !!gettrust deedbot trinque
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 6 by 6 connections.
trinque: that's done. anyone having trouble, let me know.
hanbot: test tx via trb using sendtoaddress fails to send diddly squat, meanwhile @ blockchain.info: transaction rejected by our node. Reason:Script resulted in a non-true stack: 
mircea_popescu: txid ?
mircea_popescu: lmao i see it
mircea_popescu: i also see 7fa9eb8297e7547e8ab24a7ac49197197cb312364436ba7ac31b61822059f531 which doublespends it
mircea_popescu: i'd say blockchain.info broken infrastructure ?
mircea_popescu: (the dblspend is included 5 blocks ago)
mircea_popescu: reported by the miner that included it, as best i can tell.
jhvh1: hanbot: Current Blocks: 453792 | Current Difficulty: 4.40779902286E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 455615 | Next Difficulty In: 1823 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 13 hours, 27 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes can bcstats be moved to mimi or notrly ?
hanbot: eh. my node is current and doesn't see it, inasmuch as amt's still held.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean amt's still held ?
hanbot: i mean the amt sent to non-trb wallet is still included in trb wallet.
mircea_popescu: i don't think trb updates your wallet balance in this case. it updates it when it sends something, it doesn't rescan for doublespends.
mircea_popescu: the receiver should see it ; the sender has nfi what happened, rescan will fix.
hanbot: oh goodie.
hanbot: say, i've also got a paytxfee reset to zero (was set last run)...what's this, also doesn't update w/o rescan, or wants a setting every run?
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely sure, but afaik trb still imports original satoshi assumptive boneheadedness in that it will not consider tx updating its own wallet which it didn't issue itself.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: option -rescan
mircea_popescu: i said that.
asciilifeform: ( http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/wallet.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0565 << mechanism )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider publishing your tx debugger as a trb patch ? (the thing that lets mircea_popescu answer questions like 'where is ea58f22fe5bbb4f42edb8be90a37f98b57af12007f7620f7ab94111a06ff3ebb ?' )
mircea_popescu: you know she just poked me with the same thing ?
hanbot: aha. and lol yeah.
asciilifeform: well yes, i am eating the l0gz
asciilifeform: hanbot: settxfee ( http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0472 ) can be used to adjust a running node without restart
asciilifeform: ftr i see nTransactionFee as an idiocy, and imho the thing ought to demand the fee amount as a second argument to sendtoaddress
mircea_popescu: the idea though is that you'd want to pay the same per kb for a whole period.
mircea_popescu: not a particularly bright idea - for one thing you may wish to prioritize txn
asciilifeform leans in direction of manual reactor control
mircea_popescu: hands CAN get tired you know
BingoBoingo: ^ When was the last time anyone coped with a coping saw?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: me. just last month.
BingoBoingo: And how were hands? Would you be seeking an alternative if answer was yesterday and every day since last month?
asciilifeform: actually if i did it every day, would have titanic hands and 0 complaints
mircea_popescu: homunculus hands!
BingoBoingo: But tiny carpal tunnels!
BingoBoingo: Sawing is fine good fun. Coping is the sort of task that lead to Doctor's adminishions to stop doing that and repetitive stress injury.
asciilifeform: to revisit upstack, ftr trb still does not have a tx debugger. when, e.g., mircea_popescu, asks me 'have you seen tx T', all i have is to grep the log barf
mircea_popescu: i am not against trb having a debugger
asciilifeform: way it oughta work is, say, 'findtx <tx>' and we get, e.g., '<tx> is nth in block B', or <tx> is in mempool', or '<tx> not seen', in all but the last case followed by hexdump
mircea_popescu: way it ought to work starts with finely dispersed listeners throughout the network, which i hesitate to place as a "every lord should have" type of obligation in 2017, but will eventually become
mircea_popescu: because the blind can't rule, as it were.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how does 'dispersed listener' differ from 'run many nodez, and they gotta have tx debugger' ?
mircea_popescu: well not substantially. except if "run many nodes" is done by idiot, spins up 500 aws instances.
asciilifeform: all aws vm are 1 node as far as asciilifeform is concerned
asciilifeform: 'if they all had but one neck' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: this sounds shockingly dumb when stated, but then again in point of fact average usian has "many sources of information : reddit, wikipedia, six different fake news outlets + nature!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when you wrote 'listener', i wondered if it meant something specialized and passive, a sort of pseudonode.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, heathendom https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 sees 9 trb nodez.
asciilifeform: ^ these include strictly those folx who built with versionstring knob. or rather, some quite arbitrary subset thereof (i.e. those not in a black hole atm)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615717 << i gotta wonder what the folx without 1+ working trb node, think they are doing.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 19:13 mircea_popescu: way it ought to work starts with finely dispersed listeners throughout the network, which i hesitate to place as a "every lord should have" type of obligation in 2017, but will eventually become
asciilifeform: (and i will add: 1 is quite certainly insufficient, and 2 -- just ~barely~ enough -- to have real-time access to the network)
mircea_popescu: yes, because you don't want to commit the serious resources needed for a node on each of these boxen.
mircea_popescu: gotta distinguish between push and pull sort of needs, also. if you want to know "what is x" you want something substantially different from wanting to "let everyone know y"
mircea_popescu: exactly mirroring the signed/encrypted thing in tmsr.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been contemplating the correct way to make pseudonodes. way i see it is, it should still maintain a cache of recent blocks, and have a backhaul to mothership controlled by owner to request signed block checksums, and whole blocks if cache does not find; rather than accepting crapolade from randos
mircea_popescu: there is some value in accepting crapolade from randos.
asciilifeform: accepting -- possible; acting on -- none whatsoever
mircea_popescu: but this is also where heterogenicity of implementation is a major republican asset.
mircea_popescu: the reason i hesitate to publish the extensive mp alien techs wrt bitcoin infrastructure isn't simply the sheer size ; nor merely the political consideration of, "hey, there's a lot of value in enemy not actually knowing what mp capabilities are -- as widely exemplified in the public sphere by the march cartel trampling among who knows what private adventures"
asciilifeform: let's say 'pseudonode' is that which one makes, if you have 1,001 boxes with acceptable bandwidth, but small disk. (e.g., a botnet.)
mircea_popescu: but actually the fact that i think we'd lose out on a lot of value by not doing the v-tron thing here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was pretty clear when you explained it here to asciilifeform during the july '15 events.
asciilifeform: the example with the horse.
asciilifeform for some reason failing to turn it up in the l0gz
asciilifeform: i will however note that my original vtron ~was~ openly published.
asciilifeform: some wunderwaffen work best in the field; others -- sitting in the vault.
asciilifeform: !#s fleet in being
a111: 7 results for "fleet in being", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fleet%20in%20being
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: aye, reasonabru. i'll probably kill the web stuff and make the thing irc-only. not going to happen immediately, still planning out data collection system
ben_vulpes: from kakloandia: http://disobedientmedia.com/ngo-fleet-bussing-migrants-into-the-eu-has-ties-to-george-soros-hillary-clinton-donors/
ben_vulpes: kaloandia, heh. cloacaland?
mod6: The unusually warm weather provided me a banner day of hunting. Got seven myself. http://www.mod6.net/hunting_20170219.jpg
asciilifeform: those look delicious
mod6: they are tasty, indeed.
asciilifeform reports a successful replication of mod6's recipe http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html , 'offline' variant, using his vtron etc. took exactly 40 minutes from the instance of making an empty dir to do it in, to having <5MB finished binary in my hands.
asciilifeform: congrats to mod6 and the other folx who massaged this.
mod6: awesome, thanks for testing!
asciilifeform: and this was on an ancient and quite slow box, even.
asciilifeform: considering that this builds toolchain, gcc, linux kernel, busybox userland (currently unused), then trb deps, and then trb...
asciilifeform: pretty decent.
mircea_popescu: ha nice going mod6
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, it's glorious to watch. i would say we have a complete, reliable and quite elegant solution to the original mandate
a111: Logged on 2015-08-05 13:38 mircea_popescu: one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".
mircea_popescu: 16 months is RIDICULOUSLY quick for something of this magnitude.
mircea_popescu: (and of course it's only 16 months in a very loose measuring, original v was published the very same month)
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ha nice going mod6 << Thanks! & Thanks to all who helped in the effort.
mircea_popescu: nice quarry too!
trinque tips hat
mircea_popescu: myeah, to borrow alfism, it's unclear what the megawatt of iron folk would have even done re this. it's not, afaik, a matter approacheable by corporate america.
mircea_popescu: as in, apple "could buy russia", but can't v in a year.
mod6: mircea_popescu: today was a gift. usually never hunt by this time of year -- too cold, too much snow in the fields.
mircea_popescu: snow is great for pheasant no ?
mod6: doesn't leave a lot for cover for the birds. we hunt in the snow, until it becomes un-walkable. once i did through 3-4 ft. drifts, and nearly had a cardiac event.
mod6: so now, i only go up to 1 ft, then I call it for the season. gets hard on the dogs too.
mircea_popescu: heh there is that
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, mod6 : next mega-advance will probably be to make it self-reproducing - i.e. to shit out a bootable hdd with itself. i experimented with this in the pogo era but hung up at the time on buildroot freezing, which was since solved by mod6
asciilifeform: so now it is quite doable
BingoBoingo: mod6 asciilifeform mircea_popescu or hanbot care to qntra up this milestone?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mod6's thing worked for a while now
mircea_popescu: it's kinda covered in teh foundation reports... but maybe an interview format thing'd be a good idea
asciilifeform: i'm just slow to eat
BingoBoingo: Well covered in reports, but interview or walkthrough would be welcome.
mircea_popescu: it's not an event is what he means. was a thing for a while now, it's just incidentally been brought up
asciilifeform: (at one time, buildroot demanded net access to work)
BingoBoingo: The things about the reports is the proceed piecemeal into thing like channel epihany today
mircea_popescu: there is that.
BingoBoingo: eventually all those little steps add up into "Holy Shit" good enough lesser people would stamp "done" and quit
asciilifeform: and yes, i revved up a fully mod6tronic trb to have what to patch against, my working copies are quite dated
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu provoked again my ancient itch for a tx debugger
mircea_popescu: well, that's prolly next mega-project.
mircea_popescu: some kind of share-able listener tmsr infrastructure. has a lot to do with the uci project.
asciilifeform: for now it'd be useful to simply be able to ask a proper node to search mempool and recent blocks
mircea_popescu: though... you probablty don't want to ask the node.
mircea_popescu: curious how davout 's work on splitting function is coming along btw
mircea_popescu: anyone looking into that ?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> it's kinda covered in teh foundation reports... but maybe an interview format thing'd be a good idea << yeah, I like the idea.
mod6: i haven't heard on davout's progress recently.
mod6: testing on the new V seems to be going well, probably will publish next month.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> some kind of share-able listener tmsr infrastructure. has a lot to do with the uci project. << yeah, many exciting things are starting to open up.
ben_vulpes: "mostly reading" last time i spoke to himi on the topic
ben_vulpes: which, more of that please.
mircea_popescu: can't fault a man for that.
asciilifeform has been experimenting with a proggy that 'rides' a trb node, and takes over all comms with outside world
mod6: yeah, that project will take much thought and consideration. i applaud that approach.
mod6: asciilifeform: cool
asciilifeform: mod6: it was suggested by mircea_popescu at one time. but i can't seem to recall which thread
asciilifeform: it was in one of the discussions re 'how to cut apart'
mircea_popescu: last month or somesuch, you used the word condom
asciilifeform: ada proggy, speaks the protocol as defined by trb; but does not attempt to verify blocks, instead uses its 'horse' (trb node it rides) as an oracle
mod6: ah, yes. very cool. how's ada going for ya? I've only recently dipped my toe in that water.
asciilifeform: mod6: working through the spark b00k presently
asciilifeform: ( mccormick, 2015 )
mod6: ah, thanks.
mircea_popescu: 2017 is one helluva year.
BingoBoingo: 2017 is better with lollerRanger latest candidate release notes https://archive.is/Q5oD4
BingoBoingo: Prune moar pls
mircea_popescu: they got a problem, blockchain hasn't fit on any tablet apple markets for a year
mircea_popescu: now it's falling off thumbdrives also
asciilifeform: mod6: iirc crapple never permitted any actual btc client on its nintendostore
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^ rather
BingoBoingo: Also "assumed-valid blocks"!?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but they're cool kids, they patch
asciilifeform: mod6: the bulk of what takes 'getting used to' in ada is not the syntax, but the forced sanity, e.g. you get (grudgingly) a malloc, but not a free! idea being, you get to pick a memory footprint and LIVE in it
asciilifeform: keep racks of item around, re-use
asciilifeform: eliminates fragging, use-after-frees
asciilifeform: but a serious adaist avoids using heap at all!
asciilifeform: creates all of the items the program will need in its life, on the stack at boot.
asciilifeform: (language has features that make this practical, such as discriminated-records)
asciilifeform: the other interesting bit is the task system. language was designed from the ground up to have sane concurrency. can make 'throwaway' processes , that pass data in intrinsically safe ways
mircea_popescu: now that's cool.
mircea_popescu: "PRB should also work on most other Unix-like systems but is not frequently tested on them."
mircea_popescu: ahaha. so basically... they give up, right ? unix-like ie 100% of the net infrastructure. prb is officially a toy, not to be run seriously.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615687 << fwiw, receiving wallet does see amt sent. meanwhile trb restarted with -rescan shows same balance as before, which we now realize *had changed* following transaction just...not by amt sent. to wit, listtransactions sees original balance, sees correct sent amt with fee, nevertheless balance via getinfo has mystery-difference. which shows as a negative, and only value, via listaccounts.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 18:44 mircea_popescu: the receiver should see it ; the sender has nfi what happened, rescan will fix.
mircea_popescu: lol dat wallet.
hanbot: you figure this wallet in particular has a pox?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems like they meant 'unixlikes other than linux and crapple'
asciilifeform: (going by the linked piece)
mircea_popescu: other than ubuntu and crapple you mean ?
mircea_popescu: half the piece is about dumbass half-transparent overlays and making me a sandwich while shutting the fuck up.
danielpbarron: https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber >> they said that I didn't show any signs of an upward career trajectory. I pointed out that I was publishing a book with O'Reilly, speaking at major tech conferences, and doing all of the things that you're supposed to do to have an "upward career trajectory", but they said it didn't matter and I needed to prove myself as an engineer.
shinohai: ^ for BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: who could have guessed doing with the gab isn't doing something!
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron surprising no one, a) there was exactly no work done by the "engineering" company uber, at any point and b) piles of worthless bureaucratys each trying to use their own brand of identity politicsw to "get on top"
mircea_popescu: us "tech sector" is basically the bros vs the cheerleading sluts vs the librarian dorks vs the etc highschoolorama.
BingoBoingo: In other news that isn't yet qntr'd the threshold, in 3 short years ESPN went from Disney cash cow to open hemorrage
BingoBoingo: This leaves Disney with Superheroes, Star Wars, and Tim Allen
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: you forgot theme parks and child labor
thestringpuller: oh and frozen. don't expose your kids to it.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Those are just marketing
thestringpuller: i forget what ended up happening with the pixar cash cow, I always though stuff like Frozen, Wreck It Ralph, etc. were push to reclaim territory
BingoBoingo: They annuitized Pixar
thestringpuller: well put: "the angry divorcee of disney"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/08300171A070171A36BF13F095DAC6DF889B9F581B7DB4D7430256331BD2A8AE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1233...7629 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown NL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/08300171A070171A36BF13F095DAC6DF889B9F581B7DB4D7430256331BD2A8AE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1285...6919 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown NL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CAAD24848594307C9E3EFE6890B0BD1B9792D2613D4F7D7A387ACDF461F8500D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1405...3629 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (alfran2.com.br. BR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CAAD24848594307C9E3EFE6890B0BD1B9792D2613D4F7D7A387ACDF461F8500D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1661...8977 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (alfran2.com.br. BR)