deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-are-they-all-going-to-die/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Are they all going to die
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.org/stream/Link-16-Joint-Key-Management-Plan-28-April-2015/Link%2016%20Joint%20Key%20Management%20Plan,%2028%20April%202015_djvu.txt
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1594228 <<< protip for asciilifeform, if it actually gets off the ground, it's not a sim!11
a111: Logged on 2016-12-30 22:18 asciilifeform: historically accurate to the point of wtf -- even radio controls (what good are they in a sim?) are there.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-three-men-are-coming/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Three men are coming
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594446 <<< i'm confused, isn't the 8-ball a set of factors that you multiplied into the running product, and for which 're-running' makes little sense, as being already present in the global factors product?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-31 03:26 asciilifeform: and where was this pop when i first ran 8ball
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-before-they-set-off/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Before they set off
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594781 << hmm. what i could do is, check that all generated gpg keys have the right e and N (by comparing to the e,N,IP CSVs that i fully trust); to make sure that i didn't mess up the gpg-generation thing. i don't think it'd be really possible, and i had done some manual checks before, but maybe worth to write an automated full-on test.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-31 04:43 asciilifeform: this would of course mean that Framedragger's set contained massive dupeage somehow.
Framedragger: probably a useful piece of code to have anyway; actual tests for proper maintenance. :)
Framedragger: that being said, confused.com re. this case.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-31 04:50 asciilifeform: 'The ability to limit concurrent coredumps allows dumping core to be safely enabled in these situations without affecting responsiveness of the system as a whole. I have several servers running with this patch applied (actually backported to v2.6.26) and it has allowed me to deal successfully with the situation described above.'
trinque: pretty good
trinque: > thanks to bill for increasing my swap space
trinque: what he fixed it
Framedragger: but they expanded my cell's volume so i have room to walk around now
trinque: damn, I was born that year
Framedragger: btw asciilifeform, if you want to be even more sure that no postgres data is lost while being written during power failure, you probably need to disable disk controller and disk drive caches, if at all possible. but maybe you've done this.. as per https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/wal-reliability.html
Framedragger: (actually, i'm sure you've considered all this, so sorry for assuming you may not have)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i wouldn't worry about it.
mircea_popescu: reading tom knight about lispm fills me with rage.
asciilifeform: knight, in case anyone did not know, designed and built the original lispm.
mircea_popescu in #freenode ; <mircea_popescu> christel is there some manner to opt out of the cutesy/pointless global notices ? or otherwise out of these global notices altogether ?
mircea_popescu: but do you suppose christel feels the need to ANSWER ? no, he'll just speak. because hey, we're all on fucking tv over here.
mircea_popescu: you should see that channel, it's like camwhores' chatrooms exactly.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: You can unset those with /umode -w
mircea_popescu: i have, meanwhile.
shinohai: I think /ignore *!*@freenode/staff/* NOTICE works as well
mircea_popescu: the point, however, is that before i will use the tools, i'd rather parlay with the idiots as if they were, somehow, people.
mircea_popescu: of course i have the tools. my existence is not limited or in any way described by the acts of idiots.
mircea_popescu: theirs however, is.
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tUG5b/?raw=true 2016 shitcoin roundup
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-in-spite-of-all-that/ << Trilema - Disgrace - In spite of all that
mircea_popescu: i don't know how new they are. seem pretty well formed.
asciilifeform: phun phakt:
asciilifeform: 'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend that you consider the limitations of statically linking very carefully, and consider yo
asciilifeform: ur customer and their needs, plus the long-term support you will need to provide.'
asciilifeform: grade a+++++ monkeyware
mircea_popescu: hurr. "if we want to use the anal orifice later on and you linked something it may give it away. use this lube.'
asciilifeform: this btw on the libc level.
asciilifeform: dun matter what you use, old gcc, gnat, etc.
asciilifeform: the linker -- barfs.
mircea_popescu: sure. they know how to do it ; llvm is not "a competitor" for gcc, the notion that someone could "hold out" is nonsense. llvm was written quite exactly with full knowledge of gcc in mind.
asciilifeform: (found this gem when testing an otherwise 100%-portable gnat makefile)
phf: we briefly exploerd this fun fact back when static linking became a thing (with bitcoind)
asciilifeform: aha, i recall, phf had a mac experiment
asciilifeform: notably the machine from this example is a mac with 100%-working gnat (on gcc 4.xx)
asciilifeform: at any rate, i suppose it dun much matter how one links in monkeyland.
asciilifeform: but, notably, winblowz!! supports static exe.
mircea_popescu: this being the difference between a technology company like apple and a media company like yahoo, aka microsoft : the former actually fit gcc / their erstwhile competition in head. the latter just blather on in the hopes the holy paper clip will help with the printing press.
asciilifeform: i dunno that either fit anything at all in head
asciilifeform: crapple stole gcc while it made expedient sense, wholesale, raw
asciilifeform: then -- ditched
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to say it again : llvm is not "a competitor" for gcc. llvm was written quite exactly with full knowledge of gcc in mind. you know they fully understand how gcc works, and i don't mean on the first order, but on the last, BECAUSE of little signs like these.
asciilifeform: llvm was not written at or by crapple
mircea_popescu: llvm is, from a gnoseologic point of view, a superset of gcc, the upper node.
asciilifeform: sponsored -- yes.
mircea_popescu: you are going to examine the glue holding labels to bottles now ?
mircea_popescu: "apple", does it make it better if it's "apple" in quotes ?
asciilifeform: regardless of whom -- expand on 'they knew'
phf: windows for a longest time had a very stable abi, as per "you can run windows 95 programs still!1", where's i suspect mac os x probably doesn't. it's the same problem on openbsd, sure you can static link, but you will have to recompile after the next release.
asciilifeform: noshit 'they knew', all compilers are built on roughly same scheme, just as all airplanes have wings, fuselage, etc
asciilifeform: phf: correct, it does not. whereas win95 proggies typically still run
mircea_popescu: someone, or for the sake of rigor, "someone", a tom knight equivalent, sat down and read all of gcc, slowly, loaded it in head. i do not mean, "one version". i mean ALL of gcc, like i know words in the sense of who is their mother and their father and the fine degree derivatives in all trees in ten languages. all of gcc.
asciilifeform: phf: 'impoverished' os is a plus from this pov
mircea_popescu: and then thought abvout it, and then came up with a model for a world which includes gcc, and then ran simulations of that world and evaluated which moves best serve a specified interest.
mircea_popescu: and thus llvm was born.
mircea_popescu: but not just llvm - the whole world exists, and it produces things such as "'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend tha
asciilifeform: i dun see this as a necessary hypothesis. i dare say that if i had to write a c compiler, it would end up looking somewhat more like llvm than gcc.
mircea_popescu: t you consider the limitations of statically linking very carefully, and consider your customer and their needs, plus the long-term support you will need to provide."
mircea_popescu: which is NOT a random string, nor the result of a markov process, run on dry sand or wet protein.
asciilifeform: thing caught on not strictly because crapple et al pushed it, but because genuinely modular. even though it sucks in almost every other respect.
asciilifeform: recall the solrodar experiment.
mircea_popescu: yes, but you miss that very point. it is not "somewhat like", it is exactly and precisely like the thing it is.
mircea_popescu: the "apple software ecosystem", while on a level dysfunctional as ben_vulpes oft informs us, is on another edge intricately designed.
mircea_popescu: more so, i dare say, than the lisp machine ever was.
mircea_popescu: not as productively, yes, not for the end user, at any rate, but there never was a rule that intelligence be benevolent.
asciilifeform: moar so than winblows, at any rate. 'nextstep' was, at any rate, architected from the ground
asciilifeform: (modern crapple is, under the cover, still largely nextstep)
mircea_popescu: much more so than windows, which is entirely indistinguishable from yahoo, or time warner, or ibm.
trinque: perhaps worth reminding whose hardware comprises much of the modern NSA panopticon
mircea_popescu: this apple, nsa, whatever, nobody gives a shit, but this "apple" is the empire's last hope, half-Alphabet-half-AAPL-half-contractors whatever it is.
mircea_popescu: "it could buy russia" does not mean - it could. it means - if anyone on our side has a prayer - them.
mircea_popescu: and it is a hope based on something, right or wrong. "is russia more complex than gcc ?"
mircea_popescu: what rms thought, in his amusing naivite, to be defending hadn't in fact existed for a decade by the point news of it reached him. fruhlingserwachen, the steiner offensive.
asciilifeform: update re phuctor: i did finally turn up the dupes.
asciilifeform: next step is to find out how they got in.
asciilifeform: (dupes ~mods~ in table. which should not be a thing.)
trinque: mircea_popescu: I've wondered whether it is apt to call these human aggregates gods, in that the term was a passable label for distributed-world-model running among nodes of a wot
trinque: but then I don't know enough about that end of things to know whether the ideology actually flowed from a particular fountain
mircea_popescu: i would say it is improper, because the fundamental quality of a god is that it's not constructible, much like no woman ever came in the shape of a lego set, be the parts delivered together or scattered in the landscape. conversely if you prefer, it is not proper because gods contain the metaphysical equivalent of a teleological dimension.
mircea_popescu: in any case, no, the clay colossi are all that - machinery, golums.
mircea_popescu: to be a god they must have purpose without purpose ; both observably and demonstrably the Central Committee (which is what this is) do not.
trinque: it may just be an internal bias of mine that these people couldn't have ever consciously designed anything
mircea_popescu: the golumn also doesn't consciously anything, which is why dogs jack off but golums do not.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594814 << bernstein's algo does not use a running global product. see his 'finding the smooth parts of integers'.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-31 06:54 davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594446 <<< i'm confused, isn't the 8-ball a set of factors that you multiplied into the running product, and for which 're-running' makes little sense, as being already present in the global factors product?
mircea_popescu: man, thinks and therefore is, artifact, willed therefore here, but god is here before any will, and its being outside the possible scope of any will. which is why the ancient literary convention of the hero's journey : gods can't change. they don't give up smoking.
mircea_popescu: the brightest minds among the sheep in classics class will ask why, when apollo's arrows rained on them, did not the victims shoot him back ?
asciilifeform: i'dve told'em 'next time it rains and soaks your undershirt, you should rain and soak ~its~ undershirt right back'
mircea_popescu: you don't make a very good teacher, even as you're a fine engineer!
asciilifeform not about to change professions any time soon
mircea_popescu: the answer doesn't have to be correct, moreover can't even be. it helps the bleating kids if it is meaningful. to them.
asciilifeform: this job needs cutting edge expert zoologist(zoophiliac?)
asciilifeform: howthefuck would i know what is meaningful to sheep(le)
asciilifeform still boggled over the dog-woman in mircea_popescu's tale
mircea_popescu: which one ?
asciilifeform: last 3
phf: can write reams of koan annotations "next time asciilifeform shouldn't forget his umbrella!"
mircea_popescu: heh. africa.
mircea_popescu: it's where hiv comes from, you know ?
asciilifeform: i read the whole thing , to date, while waiting for massive megaturd of phuctor to pump over to this half of the planet so i could rebuild working model of entire thing here in my torture room
asciilifeform: (which is done)
asciilifeform: there are now 2 identical (though not, at this moment, synchronized) phuctrons
trinque: as all gods of which I'm aware are written (willed) narrative, there's an interesting membrane there
trinque: I suppose for now there is an equivalence between god and golum in my perhaps thick skull
mircea_popescu: how's this unlike there being an equivalence between if and for ?
mircea_popescu: they're different concepts, they do different things, what sort of code results from randomly switching if and for calls around ?
asciilifeform: i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i have a refreshed (nonexpir) pubkey as of 5 min ago
asciilifeform: where to put it
asciilifeform: (same moduli)
trinque: I'm saying a man creates "apollo" the symbol as an act of will
mircea_popescu: "but they're both written down with letters". so what if they are. if i shoot an hour of a woman fucking half a dozen men, thereby i've constructed a woman ?
trinque: yet another man perceives him as bedrock reality there before the stars
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your plan on transfer of authority among keys relies on what exactly ? an unnanounced, ad hoc scheme whereby the weakest link is your continued voice in chan ?
asciilifeform: holy fuck mircea_popescu , SAME MODULUS
asciilifeform: pgpdump -i.
asciilifeform: just scrubbed the expiry, because i am tired of doing this every new year.
mircea_popescu: i read 2 lines out of 3 before throwing a fit.
asciilifeform developed through deliberate effort the habit of 'read whole thing before spewing chunks'
trinque: ye gods
trinque: asciilifeform: I will inspect the key then pop it in
mircea_popescu: now do me a favour and also deliver the habit of sorting what you say in order of node importance!
asciilifeform: trinque: please do inspect mine or any other such key, also good habit.
mircea_popescu: "i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i scrubbed the expiry off my pgp key, which of course makes a new pubkey even if it is the same modulus as before" not "i gotta borrow trinque for a minute. i have a refreshed (nonexpir) pubkey as of 5 min ago"
asciilifeform looks forward to the demolition of koch-pgp.
asciilifeform: it was a perlism and i won't miss it.
asciilifeform bbl -- meat.
mircea_popescu: but to continue, is the number 4 like that, one man made, another perceived ? how about fire ? was fire invented, like "the united states of america", like any fine story ?
trinque: I can see the distinction there.
mircea_popescu: apollo the symbol strives to mark down the discovery of apollo the god, much like ٤ stives to mark down the number 4. you wouldn't know it to look at the poor thing, but it is what the ~actual~ arabic numeral for a set of four items looks like.
trinque: I would say then that I have something political signified by the symbol god in my table, and have no allocated term for the other thing
mircea_popescu: and in this perspective, arguments as to the existence of gods become truly amusing. even in a world in which, through some strange workings of happenstance, no set of four items did in fact exist, nor ever had, and supposedly never will... there's also no number 4 ?
mircea_popescu: in what sense, "Existence"
mircea_popescu: and in what sense, "specified"
mircea_popescu: and on the other hand, "the number four told me to headbutt a door!". really, it did ? i suppose, perhaps, if the number four is followed by a double-sifr and occurs on your blood test result sheet right where the locals wrote "glucemia" it may be said "the number four told me to stop eating icecream", but it is rather forcing the point.
mircea_popescu: and it just goes on from there, "the real number 4 is the root of polynomials in my daily life and so i believe in it ; but the number 4+i priviledges the properties of abstract spaces over things much more important to us and therefore...i do not consent to its existence." hurr.
trinque is here, furrowing brow, while some neurons work their way from here to the thread re: void
mircea_popescu: are you familiar with the von neumann set ?
trinque: no, and I perceive that proceeding further will require more than a casual understanding of mathematics.
mircea_popescu: fortunately, mathematics is simple. V is the set of all sets. by convention, the first index, V0, is the empty set.
mircea_popescu: V1 is the set of the set containing the empty set.
mircea_popescu: V5 contains 65536 elements. V6 contains 2*65536 elements.
mircea_popescu: when you first expand your sex life to include a woman, you vividly remember her, and everyhing, minute detail. and once it further expands to include two, still. and three, and slightly dimmer four. by six its growing steadily dimmer, and maybe by the 7th is the first time you start losing track of them.
mircea_popescu: reality diverges much more slowly thay representation. but this inequality offers no challenges to the validity of either reality or representation. they are what they are, they do what they do.
mircea_popescu: (i mean 2^65536 above, obviously, not 2*)
trinque: it is the empty set that explodes in circles in my mind, not that I deny that it must be named first. that the definition of all things has void as a dependency induces virtigo when looking out at the world.
mircea_popescu: everyone's afraid of dying, to some degree.
trinque: it is precisely that.
trinque: and aside an aversion to pain or suffering or whatever.
trinque had both leg and own cock chopped open while awake on separate occasions!
trinque: thanks, I'll have to be off for now.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-petrus-has-invited-us/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Petrus has invited us
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/shinohais-2016-end-of-the-year-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-tmr/ << Qntra - Shinohai's 2016 End Of The Year Shitcoin Roundup Xtend (TM)(R)
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/disgrace-he-glances-across-at-lucy/ << Trilema - Disgrace - He glances across at Lucy
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-lucy-returns/ << "If he had a a gun he would probably be dead now"
mod6: State Of Bitcoin Address [December]: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-January/000244.html
mats: in much less interesting news, tw is in a tizzy over a draft law regarding same-sex marriage
mats: parliamentarians appear to be trying to push it through despite some polling indicating a 1:1 split in public opinion
mats: it will reportedly involve amusing changes to public documents, e.g. passports, textbooks in public schools, where folks are now 'parent one' and 'parent two' instead of father/mother
BingoBoingo: Very azn
mats: in my view, the state doesn't have any business in regulating marriage at all
mats: er, shouldn't have any*
BingoBoingo: But for srs, this is a very azn way of handling people
mats: i guess americans are very azn too
BingoBoingo: mats: Duh
BingoBoingo: Americans are most Kingdom Chinese
deedbot: accepted: 1
mats: in other other news, new year's eve is always amateur hour on the streets
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/qntra-s-qntr-december-2016-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) December 2016 Report
phf: u.s. suburbia and thereabouts are typically dead on new year's
mats: a day long shit show of people getting wasted and stumbling around causing trouble
phf: mats: i don't quite remember, but i think you're located somewhere exciting?
mats: yeah... boston
phf: ah. not too exciting, but definitely has city life. though i'm surprised people venture outside with those insane crosswinds
mats: it's pretty warm out
mats: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/31/turkey-armed-attacker-opens-fire-in-istanbul-nightclub-reports watch out for santas
phf: ffs, makes it harder and harder to convince girl to go back to istanbul
BingoBoingo: Istanbul fine, wait for Sultan
BingoBoingo: !~Congrats trinque on fast deeding
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "Congrats" is not a valid command.