BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform brb, alcohol << AHA, S.MG is driving alf closer to rehab!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ok, but i mean... so we drive nails with screwdriver because that's what we got. << In that case skip nail and drive in screwdriver. Better load bearing ability, usually...
BingoBoingo: <phf> i think crystal whatever is particularly nasty take on autoconf, probably one of the best examples in support of asciilifeform's rants. << Nah, "Monero" is far worse because of what it supposes to be.
diana_coman: phf mircea_popescu I think that was probably before my time really
diana_coman: I'll search the logs to find phf's pointer and have a look at it
diana_coman: phf, this is all I found, back before my time indeed: http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-08-15.log.html#t18:47:02 and http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-08-29.log.html#t19:13:13
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525876 << you conveniently omitted that 4 of 5 cases the mutilations was client-side
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 14:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525860 << email mutilation
jurov: and www-hopper won't change much about insane clients
jurov: it can stay as a historical record, but it's currently frozen with #b-a wot and redoing wot synchronization is exactly such kind of nontrivial change
jurov: re: eulora build system. last i saw it still carried crap like --with-hunspell . And when i tried to add configure option for ecl support.. i just gave up, it uses jam with poorly documented custom CS extensions.
jurov: it's all much worse than just "generates big configure turds"
jurov: noone can't ever use vanilla autotools and ftjam as documented. it's absolute necessity to prove own intelligence and DRY-adherence by creatively rigging the build system.
asciilifeform: 'systemd-logind must be restarted every ~1000 SSH logins to prevent a ~25 second delay'
shinohai: When is someone finally gonna kill systemd and bury it deep.
jurov: When there will be new shiny thing in rust or something
asciilifeform: 'OK, so I figured out one part of the puzzle I think: dbus-daemon is broken handling incoming messages where there's first a message without auxiliary fd in the socket buffer, which is then immediately followed by one with auxiliary fd. The kernel will already return the auxiliary fd with the first message, and dbus-daemon takes that as broken message and will abort the connection.' -- poettering.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 09:32 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525876 << you conveniently omitted that 4 of 5 cases the mutilations was client-side
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526667 << is it really so hard to replace the pubkeys wherever they were kept, with your current v set ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 09:35 jurov: it can stay as a historical record, but it's currently frozen with #b-a wot and redoing wot synchronization is exactly such kind of nontrivial change
jurov: well, the v set is like 5 people
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526668 << i have not, to date, attempted to build and run eulora, i wonder what 'wonderful surprises' await.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 11:27 jurov: re: eulora build system. last i saw it still carried crap like --with-hunspell . And when i tried to add configure option for ecl support.. i just gave up, it uses jam with poorly documented custom CS extensions.
asciilifeform: jurov: aha, and those are the 5 people who have any business patching trb.
asciilifeform: the other option of course is to do it as mircea_popescu described, and to have NO canonical vpatch repo at all, and 'every man for himself.'
asciilifeform: then again, he argued - imho very successfully - against a canonical ~tree~, not against www which shows all known vpatches in tree form
asciilifeform: (the latter was already implemented by phf and worx great)
shinohai: I like phf's setup, it is simple to go in and find which patches I need/don't need.
asciilifeform: shinohai: it is almost exactly the thing i imagined when first wrote 'v'.
jurov: interesting, so the consesnus is apparently wot does not mean anything anymore and i should curate gpg keys manually?
asciilifeform: jurov: no, but that it is better than letting the thing rust solid
asciilifeform: it isn't as if assbot-l1 wasn't a manually-curated artifact.
asciilifeform: it was not in any ordinary sense 'wot'.
asciilifeform: was a manual cut of wot.
asciilifeform: by 1 (2?) people.
asciilifeform: i dun have a problem with this, but it is important to remember how it worked.
asciilifeform: and how present-day item works.
asciilifeform: so jurov's complaint rather resembles 'so consensus is that washing machines are useless and wtf, i have to clean this rifle manually ?'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526615 << my complaint is that it adds a meg of UNREADABLE and - largely UNTESTABLE (i do not have a VMS box, nor a machine with zsh or ksh, nor do i intend to , and i REFUSE to sign code that claims to run there , srsly wtf omfg) - and that it introduces massive turd, useless language m4, go and learn it, read the implementation
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:02 mircea_popescu: basically, seems to me most, or at least a good chunk of autoconf problems as described by alf come from the fact that it tries to parse, rather than compile. in the abstract sense of these terms.
asciilifeform: srsly it is not enough that we have the gnudiff turd baked in ?
asciilifeform: i would like to get rid of THAT also.
asciilifeform: it all must burn.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526624 << this, as all attempts to solve a 'tv raft' problem, is EVIL.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:11 phf: i say it's a chicken and egg problem, because you know you can get vendor versions of posix tools (and then still reduce the available "language" even more, by taking away some features that might be missing in nominally posix sh on some obscure system), but you can't really do anything else, until you established some truths about your environment
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaand log is down.
asciilifeform: aaaaand up. lol.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
jurov: eh, i'm in no mood to discuss deeper, whatever
jurov: you always use the most immaterial point and use it as counterargument "phee jurov doesn't want to clean his guns manually"
asciilifeform: jurov: all i say is that presently we dun have a rifle-cleaning machine to give to jurov.
asciilifeform: the fella who was in charge of this, vanished
asciilifeform: ;;seen mike_c
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #trilema 16 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <mike_c> at least you won the 'most famous mircea popescu' award - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mircea+popescu
asciilifeform: and yes, if jurov does not roll up his sleeves, and do the painful cleaning, it will rust and eventually no longer fire.
asciilifeform: in fact, i'm pretty sure that i would not be able to submit a patch to turdatron presently.
asciilifeform: (my subkey expires every year.)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526632 << this is entirely correct. the 'problem' which autoconf pretends (yes, pretends) to 'solve', is EVIL
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:17 mircea_popescu: and trying to implement a "better" autoconf, even "by hand", will not result in anything better
asciilifeform: if you want to 'include derps' (and the result will be EVERY bit as ugly as every other occasion when someone insisted on attempt to 'include' them) distribute binaries.
asciilifeform: building a large proggy is intrinsically an act for literate hands, and trying to change this, will lead to no good.
shinohai: lol they even have `NSACareers` account
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gnupg/devel/68250 << gpg lulz.
asciilifeform: 'Once you have a key with a given 64-bit keyid in your keychain, GnuPG will not import any other key with the same 64-bit keyid. Even if you specify the new key by fingerprint.'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Likely not parody. Insufficient followers.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-37152665 << noose lulz
asciilifeform: 'Andy Darken of the Prison Officers' Association said the prison service "doesn't really have the resources, means or indeed the know how yet of how to deal with the problem".'
BingoBoingo: news'd http://qntra.net/2016/08/no-arrests-in-drug-drone-prison-crash-and-mid-flight-seizure/
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/08/no-arrests-in-drug-drone-prison-crash-and-mid-flight-seizure/ << Qntra - No Arrests In Drug Drone Prison Crash And Mid-Flight Seizure
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526670 << yeah, it works but seems pretty dangerous for the future.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 11:43 jurov: noone can't ever use vanilla autotools and ftjam as documented. it's absolute necessity to prove own intelligence and DRY-adherence by creatively rigging the build system.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/08/no-arrests-in-drug-drone-prison-crash-and-mid-flight-seizure/#comment-67856
mircea_popescu: but i think a large-ish part of hte problem is that build process per se is not actually specified.
mircea_popescu: much like the bloviating bovines / paul biggars of the world perceive bitcoin to be "a safe space for their creativity" or somesuch, similarly build process.
mircea_popescu: so it attracts a certain sort of stupid, not just in the sense of "a certain sort of stupid people", but actually a certain sort of stupid OUT OF people, even normally intelligent ones.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is because it is a broken-fauced-water-raft.
asciilifeform: i.e. tries to paper over the 10,001 under- and un- specified 'systemwide-installed' deps.
mircea_popescu: possibly. or alternately because nobody ever said "do it like this or i will fuck your children with many tiny bottle openers. in the eyes."
asciilifeform: well the latter. and this would include 'either EVERY supported box has it LIKE-SO, or you bundle it with the proggy. no exceptions.'
mircea_popescu: aha. in fact i suspect both issues are present, and reciprocally reinforcing.
mircea_popescu: for good or bad.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 13:48 asciilifeform: then again, he argued - imho very successfully - against a canonical ~tree~, not against www which shows all known vpatches in tree form
mircea_popescu: this'd be exactly it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526691 << the "consensus" is that if you're unwilling to follow the proper wot and wish to import random strange from whenever, you're stuck handcurating gpg keys manually.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 13:52 jurov: interesting, so the consesnus is apparently wot does not mean anything anymore and i should curate gpg keys manually?
jurov: and wtf is proper wot?
mircea_popescu: the consensus in my head also is that if you keep with this whiny anal child subversive bullshit i'll bitchslap you so far up your mother's ass friends and family won't be able to reassemble the pieces.
jurov: wtf is proper wot?
jurov: go on, bitchslap
mircea_popescu: the irresistible lure of teh derpage ffs.
asciilifeform: jurov: is it in some way unclear who has business submitting patches ?
jurov: Yes it is.
mircea_popescu: no dude, znort hasn't been following along is perfectly able to resolve this problem ; jurov has been around since forever "doesn't know" how to ask. here, follow the noob, mayhap you learn something : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526230
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 13:23 znort987: trinque: thx, what I was looking for.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: znort went off into heathendom
asciilifeform: 'resolving' 'problems' aha.
asciilifeform: just the other day.
asciilifeform: is being 'helped' by kako as we speak, likely.
mircea_popescu: i dun care for the content, tbh. form will carry this matter all the way it needs to go.
jurov: and what do i do with output of $wot ?
jurov: znort indeed did not resolve anything
asciilifeform: re 'unclear who has business'.
mircea_popescu: a) you see who deedbot trusts. that is called the l1. b) you see who l1 trusts. that is called the l2.
mircea_popescu: this, srsly, is new material ?
jurov: alf says something different
jurov: only 5 ppl are in deedbot l2 ?
mircea_popescu: no, not really, but "creating the controversy" might "help".
asciilifeform: jurov: am i mistaken that classical turdatron was an l1 device ?
jurov: no it was l2
asciilifeform: then i stand corrected.
asciilifeform: but it really oughta be l1.
mircea_popescu: the whole nonsense unpleasantly reminds me of that sf story about a socialist future where people got "handicaps" to match their intelligence, lest they're smarter than their stupid parents / the runts in the litter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'harrison bergeron'
asciilifeform: k. vonnegut
mircea_popescu: jurov is smart kid, gotta have some ankle weights of stupid and loud noises in inner ear lest he doesn't fit in with the idiots he originally originated with anymore.
asciilifeform: i read it as a boy, it was brainmelting
mircea_popescu: it's a sore sight and naught else.
asciilifeform: 'this is reality'
mircea_popescu: whenever it is a reality i blame the mother.
mircea_popescu: woman's ONLY task is to protect her male offspring from this.
mircea_popescu: do that and let them starve, it'll count as a job well done.
asciilifeform: i'd rather like to know what it is that is actually bothering jurov. (could hazard a guess, but would rather not)
jurov: yes i did have handicap. because i did not ever get SANE answer "why our supposed betters ever contemplated sending zerofee tx"
jurov: sorry, the doubt is crippling
jurov: dunno if my mother has anything with that
asciilifeform: jurov: what would 'sane answer' look like, in your mind ?
jurov: "i made a mistake"
asciilifeform: jurov: do you recall the lightoller paper ?
jurov: he did not insist chinese sank titanic
a111: Logged on 2014-11-14 19:44 mircea_popescu: maybe.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is "sane answer" to be established via regexp with given string is what i want to know.
asciilifeform: jurov: fwiw, my own btctron is configured ~exactly like (we infer) mircea_popescu's was - very 'old' coins are sent 0fee.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a) yes i do "manual payments" ; this however does not mean i create the txn by hand. i'd think this'd be obvious ; b) any and all, this and all sorts of other resources are used to establish things about the network. i am, for the record, THE FIRST, and also for years THE ONLY both systematically sending txnfees "not needed" and pushing for others to do so. it is utterly not because i'm trying to shave pennies t
mircea_popescu: hat i'd do such a thing.
mircea_popescu: i'd guess a and esp b should be obvious. if they aren't obvious, the problem is almost certainly not what's stated.
asciilifeform: i dun think anyone was imagining mircea_popescu creating tx on grid paper, with pencil, no.
mircea_popescu: yes, the proposition that "sane answer" === "i made a mistake" necessarily implies that as a precursor.
jurov: i am now matching mircea's answers against regexp? that was really clever retort.
mircea_popescu: and for the record, the reason we don't have an obnoxiously impudent mining cartel today is almost entirely due to that root, and its fruit.
mircea_popescu: accept that or don't, i dun particularly care nor does in fact have any effects. but history is history, rather than fantasy.
asciilifeform: (incidentally, it was never wholly clear to me why 0fee tx was ever a thing.)
asciilifeform: it is really part of the major gap in the design, where ~nodes~ pay eternally for disk footprint, but ~miner~ gets the fee
mircea_popescu: best i can discern two things : 1) derp wanted to discourage old coinbases accumulating (had intuition about the blockchain bloat didn't want to address or know how to) ; 2) fees would have been HUGE early on without this, as in, "fuck you, you wanna transact it's 50 cents. i dun care your 1k btc is enough for a pizza slice ie 2 bux"
mircea_popescu: so might well have been forced mistake because of 2, even if in all likeliness satoshi put it in because of 1
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is an antipattern of software irl that's very fucking often visible. tech wants to do a "Stupid" thing for a stupid reason ; management lets them for an entirely different reason)
asciilifeform: encouraging movement of coin 'for the sake of movement' leads to ~moar~ bloat, via 'utxo' frag effect, rather than less...
mircea_popescu: you srsly think this was modelled worth a crap in 2009 ?
mircea_popescu: 90% of btc pre 0.4 is intuition by mas.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has a point, if shitoshi had ~modelled~ anything, he may well have junked the whole thing and - not necessarily published anything at all.
asciilifeform: bitcoin as it is reminds me, more than anything, of the french aerial machine gun during ww1
asciilifeform: where several pilots had actually died via shooting out own propeller
asciilifeform: and the solution was somehow seen as 'make armoured propeller'
mircea_popescu: i don't necessarily dispute that he THOUGHT about it for many years. but there's a profound difference between these two things. psychological first of all.
asciilifeform: and it took a german to arrive at something like an actual solution (sync gear for the gun bolt)
phf: teh log, it never stops
mircea_popescu: this is the log. there are many like it, but this one is good. it is your best friend. it is your life. you must read it like you read your wife.
phf: diana_coman: i think i didn't say enough on the subject. the core of what i did in order to get it to build on mac os x is fix autoconf scripts, if i revisit mac os x build in a couple of weeks, i'll try and provide a portable patch
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526708 << i had nothing to do with this, for all i know it's lizard hitler's a111
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 14:01 asciilifeform: aaaaand up. lol.
asciilifeform: phf: interestingly, it was 404 for about half a minute.
phf: dat latency, digitalocean has been running on a generator and a modem past few days i think
asciilifeform: not ping dead, no
asciilifeform: actual 404 pg.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the only thing i can think re "digitalocean" is that place in the pacific where there's a trillion little bits of plastic, ground down by wind and sun over the decades.
diana_coman: phf, sounds cool
mircea_popescu: you know, discrete-ized ocean.
asciilifeform: (what does phf's wwwtronics stack do when there is no available worker? or how does it work)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought it was called 'rubbish island'
mircea_popescu: phf they prolly put you behind cloudflare/homebrewed equivalent as a service or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: $up Twix
deedbot: Twix voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "north pacific gyre" aite.
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, it's the worker exhaustion, but since it's my favorite threadless cmucl, situations under which "no available worker" are numerous and fantastical
asciilifeform: phf: i guessed as much.
mircea_popescu: like what ?
phf: well, judging by logs someone did fuzzing against it
asciilifeform: (phuctor suffers from similar problem, python does not really have working threading either)
phf: a whole bunch of coherent, but bogus urls. with spaces, ? & in wrong places, etc.
mircea_popescu: ah, that's just normal scriptkiddery.
mircea_popescu: the net is mostly newcomers. somehow.
asciilifeform: phf: at one point i got 1,001 of these daily
asciilifeform: countless variations on 'this fella MUST be php monkey, let's try all known monkeypoison'
asciilifeform: incl. probes against the (never existing) wordpress on that box.
asciilifeform: (somehow a box without wordpress is unthinkable to these folk.)
mircea_popescu: you'll laugh, but the point is not so much untinkable as not valuable. ~all of them, if actually given access, will happily post links "for google to see" and that's all.
asciilifeform: thinking here of the folks who show symptoms of 'manually cranked' probemeister, vs the usual bots.
mircea_popescu: a small fraction will do the more nefarious bit of hosting pharma / child porn / whatever pages to link from OTHER wordpress / email blasts.
asciilifeform: (e.g., lengthy browsing of what i consider 'interesting' pages on the site previously)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no , no, the ones that appear manually cranked are just the same 3-4 bots "sold" on "underground forums", but with exceptionally inept operators. such as ahmed.
mircea_popescu: nah, the reason for that is because they find you from google, or equiv, which is an approximation of "what a human would think interesting"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cannot be ruled out. though the level of decorative dressing is quite ludicrous, in that case.
mircea_popescu: it's not even deliberate, just byproduct of how the process works. they'd cut it out if they knew how.
asciilifeform: now that mircea_popescu mentioned it, i recall an 'elaborate bots' thread.
phf: speaking of wordpress, mysql keeps consistently crashing. i don't think i've had a unix daemon crash on me in the recent memory, this is a first
mircea_popescu: not that there aren't a precious few competent folk out there. but they suffer a heavy demographic burden in the form of idiot us sucking them in to "build companies" and go to conferences and waste their lives for belonging&jam-tomorrow ; and the rest are fucking busy raping nsa and such.
mircea_popescu: phf i dun think that ever happened to trilema.
phf: i suspect not
asciilifeform: now we need a vintage mysql..?
mircea_popescu: my angry forays into apache/mysql are in the logs. that shit sucks.
asciilifeform: (the pill against 'omfg, this has never before crashed', sad as it is, is generally to rewind version again and again...)
phf: oh i think maybe it's a memory issue :D i'm running it on a $5 512mb instance
asciilifeform: fwiw i have yet to see postgres crash. but there is always a time for a first.
phf: and no wap
mircea_popescu: phf nah. half gb is ample.
mircea_popescu: what, no swap at all ?
mircea_popescu: or you mean very small
phf: no, just not even registered
mircea_popescu: eh i'm surprised it works at all.
mircea_popescu: look through it, it has swap existing hardwire throughout.
phf: it exhausts the 512mb and quietly dies
mircea_popescu: aha. make a swap.
phf: 160822 9:30:08 InnoDB: Fatal error: cannot allocate memory for the buffer pool
mircea_popescu: do we put this down to "lamp sucks" or to "operator egregious eggog" ?
phf: 512mb ought to be enough for anyone!
mircea_popescu: i thought it said so in the linux manual cca 1996, "linux can not be run without swap. don't even try."
mircea_popescu: that they stopped saying it doesn't mean anything changed ; they just thought everyone got the idea.
asciilifeform runs without swap.
mircea_popescu: you probably run without panties, also.
asciilifeform: all swap does is prolong an agonizing and inevitable death.
asciilifeform: i can see using swap on a 486 with 8M, where it makes the diff between being able to load emacs and not.
asciilifeform: elsewhere, it is simply sad.
phf: log server runs without swap, but it's because cmucl stays within it's heap and nginx memory variance is negligible
shinohai: You can't even build prb without setting a swap space. Or at least I haven't been successful yet.
phf: also it's got couple of gigs of ram, for ~~500mb in memory log
asciilifeform: shinohai: you are on what, a 486 with 8M ?
shinohai: Nope, digital ocean droplet w 2gb
shinohai: still fails
asciilifeform: shinohai: even trb will run for no more than 2-3 weeks on 2G.
shinohai: this is just during build-from-source process.
phf: come to think of me my laptop runs without swap, because i mucked with write permissions on mac os x's swap file, but it's not ever a problem at 16gb
phf: *of it
asciilifeform: a reasonable dev box for 'modern' bloatrocities contains at least 32G.
asciilifeform: (sad, neh? nsa crays in '90s never dreamed of 32G.)
danielpbarron: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://danielpbarron.com/qntra/bitbet-owner-addresses-solvency-concerns.asc.txt
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-12#1519442 << don't you now wish that wasn't the case, lol, the guy is like an ultra-wrecker, shitting all over that codebase
a111: Logged on 2016-08-12 16:31 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: also, I'm not taking thousands in donations. jackdaniel is being paid several k to work on CLIM
asciilifeform: phf: eons have passed since i last could be arsed to read clim. what happened ?
phf: asciilifeform: that attention from fundraiser and marketing that gabriel_laddel was so excited about ~obviously~ attracted not talent, but the usual modernizer suspects. i'm reading their channel logs and marvel.
phf: in the immortal words of ivan chesnokov, YOU HAVE DISEASE OF AMERICAN CAPITALIST, CHANGE THING THAT IS FINE FOR NO REASON EXCEPT TO LOOK DIFFERENT FROM COMRADE.
asciilifeform: phf: 'fresh meat in the sun'
asciilifeform: as discussed on numerous occasions.
asciilifeform: gift for the flies.
phf: everyone agrees "we need windows backend" obviously, stodgy and dated decisions are being gradually replaced with "modern" equivalents. someone literally used the phrase "people come to expect from modern ui"
asciilifeform: then again clim is perhaps ~the~ place for this phrase.
asciilifeform: i won't use a gui that ignores mouse wheel.
asciilifeform: just won't.
asciilifeform: it can fuck itself.
phf: bordeaux-threads stopped building with my asdf1, i checked, someone hardcoded >3.11 check, with ~no purpose for it~. next thing i know i read "<jackdaniel> [04:44:30] but don't use clim's mp, I've reimplemented it on top of bordeaux-thread just for backward compatibility" on #clim
asciilifeform: and if i wanted to use a gui where i can sit and WATCH IT REDRAW, i will use microshit word.
asciilifeform: motherfucker is slow even on 16 cpu.
asciilifeform: at 3GHz.
phf: asciilifeform: it needs work, but it's literally one of the few gui frameworks untouched by lizard hitler, unless you want to write raw xlib or tty outputs
phf: not anymore, assholes!
phf: it's modernization time
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Thing is more gossip than news. What happened? There may be a way to rewrite it into news, but it is still early this morning.
asciilifeform: phf: if we discover that the only way to have a usably snappy clim is custom iron, i am willing to consider custom iron.
asciilifeform: but what i am ~not~ willing to do is to close eyes and play pretend
asciilifeform: and accept behaviour that i will not accept from microshit.
phf: asciilifeform: nobody's asking you, this is for people who want a fixer-upper. you don't want to use cmucl either, because it's half baked. it does feel just a tad "i just want to", but i can't necessarily fault you for it
asciilifeform: actually phf made an imho quite persuasive defense of cmucl.
phf: i'm just hoping nobody's going to do a fundraiser for it. thank god gabriel_laddel hasn't discovered it yet
phf cackles with mirth at seeing his city burn
phf: where's ma fiddle
asciilifeform: when i move into a house, demanding 'yes this place WILL have a toilet or no deal' != 'i just want to!'
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as minimal hygienic standard.
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, what gossip?
phf: i like that story i read on livejournal long time ago. this soviet guy was telling, so he's sent to forced farming на посевы, bunch of guys digging for potatoes, middle of fucking nowhere. and then there's news, some deposed aristocrat is sent to join, so naturally jokes all around, since the toilet is a mess (it's a bunch of guys!) "how's his excellency going to use the facilities справлять нужду" "probably unaccustomed to working
phf: class living" etc. anyway, guy arrives goes to toilet, comes out, grabs a broom and a bucket and cleans it. the moral is tediously obvious (it's a fucking liverjournal story), but it stuck with me. living in orcland is kind of like that
asciilifeform: phf: 'Разруха. Это - мираж, дым, фикция. Что такое эта ваша разруха? Старуха с клюкой? Ведьма, которая выбила все стекла, потушила все лампы? Да ее вовсе и не существует. Это вот что: если я, вместо того, чтобы оперировать каждый вечер, начну у себя
asciilifeform: в квартире петь хором, у меня настанет разруха. Если я, входя в уборную, начну, извините за выражение, мочиться мимо унитаза и то же самое будут делать Зина и Дарья Петровна, в уборной начнется разруха. Следовательно, разруха не в клозетах, а
asciilifeform: в головах. Когда эти баритоны кричат "бей разруху!" - Я смеюсь. Клянусь вам, мне смешно! Это означает, что каждый из них должен лупить себя по затылку! '
asciilifeform: ^ sacramental.
asciilifeform: phf: the 'grabs a broom and a bucket and cleans it' incidentally is more or less the story of my 1st year of trb.
phf: prof preobrazhensky failed at judicious application of nagant? :p
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> BingoBoingo, what gossip? << The signed recollection by minimally collected guy.
BingoBoingo: *connected guy
phf: you're gonna like this guy. he's all right. he's a good fella. he's one of us.
BingoBoingo: All pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal!
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Based on the way the guy interesctionalittitties with my WoT maybe your blog is the best place to make the point you want to make about it?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526916 << "advertise and filter" is a fucking tall order to do right.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 16:40 phf: asciilifeform: that attention from fundraiser and marketing that gabriel_laddel was so excited about ~obviously~ attracted not talent, but the usual modernizer suspects. i'm reading their channel logs and marvel.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/12b1a02b-d351-41f0-b26d-54f25f4443aa/
mircea_popescu: lol piss on your own head.
mircea_popescu: and in other unrelated news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8mny1gHtH1rq6vz1o1_500.gif
asciilifeform: re mpi referred to in the automake thread, updates:
asciilifeform: ^ the tarball is the result of press, and included SOLELY for reference.
asciilifeform: the vpatch consists heavily of minusola and FUCK GNUDIFF ALREADY.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/08/nth-french-republic-sending-tourists-to-belgium-for-death/ << Qntra - Nth French Republic Sending Tourists To Belgium For Death
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, what is the point of qntra? is it soley to bring non-republic news ~in~ or can it also be to tell republic news to the outside? I think it is certainly news that the new owner of bitbet is taking the time to speak in public (this channel)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: notably, see include/knobs.h. THIS is what we get instead of automake.
asciilifeform: it weighs 2261 bytes.
asciilifeform: the makefile - 516.
asciilifeform: if anyone finds something resembling a reasonable unix box this WON'T build on by simply running 'make', PLEASE let me know!
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Qntra pointedly tells republic news to the outside, BUT znort does not at this time have a relation to anyone I know such that his signature carries more weight than rando unsigned pastebins
asciilifeform: note that i no longer intend to use mpi for anything. it was posted as a deautomakeification demo.
danielpbarron: $gettrust BingoBoingo znort987
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: cheers.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: There's prolly a way to rewrite what you submitted to news it up, but as you presented it it wasn't news. Maybe a "look how unlucky this guy is" angle would help? All those misfortunes may very well involve malice on the part of persons other than him. Such an angle could be very newsy.
danielpbarron: unlucky for what? the hacked email?
BingoBoingo: What you submitted at this time however was not that. You presented the signed block as basically "take this as what it is" and "here are other people doubting it" leaving unrepublican b00bs to wonder wtf?
ben_vulpes: so i'm flattening and rebuilding this barely-used macbook pro, and frames of animated language names scrolling sideways on the "what language" screen are tearing
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: The hacked email and the targeted use of it.
ben_vulpes: IN THE OS INSTALL PROCESS
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: ANyways where again were the lulz in "Heroic Jap Stationwagon Swats Traffic Disrupting Pedelarast" I still haven't found it.
ben_vulpes: oh just in that some saudi is going to get spirited out of the country before getting lynched
ben_vulpes: decent "us has no sovereignty, can't effect their own honor killings" angle
ben_vulpes: or "can't piss off uae sponsors of us terrorism on global stage" angle
BingoBoingo: Oh, well why did you not write it up and why would he be lynched for doing a pubic service?
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, is blockchain.info being mitm'd atm ?
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, I don't understand your logic here. Even your criticism of znort's reputation is addressed in my copy. But whatever I'll just post it on my own blog
asciilifeform has not attempted to verify
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mebbe verify and submit to qntra?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if yer gonna mention redditola here, plox to link ??!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: not redditola, there was a bikeportland.org link
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yer ctrl key is broken or what.
asciilifeform: can haz link ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where is the part re 'spirited out'
BingoBoingo: ? I wondered too
mircea_popescu: the half that can is all natoreich, and sees 104.16.54/3
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw, resolves here in the heart of mordor.
asciilifeform: (took ~20 sec tho.)
mircea_popescu: quite my point.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah, i misread, the half that CAN.
mircea_popescu: looks like a rather shaping attack of some kind.
asciilifeform: i have nfi why a usg organ in good standing needs 'attack'
BingoBoingo: Imma have some cumpany soon, so someone get to the bottom of this other thing and submit.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i have nfi why a usg organ in good standing needs 'attack' << Innocence washing
phf: ben_vulpes: that's what you get for installing >10.9. i tried it one a company machine, took ~~2 hours. fresh install, ssd. insanity.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Innocence washing is one of oldest SOPs
gribble: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
mircea_popescu: ^ gribble can't see it.
ben_vulpes: ;;balance 1b1tco1ne34ter
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
ben_vulpes: ;;balance 1DskTjGvWh5KVbiqnb3vvRFyEmCen1UNzL
ben_vulpes: ;;balance 1DskTjGvWh5KVbiqnb3vvRFyEmCen1UNzL
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
mircea_popescu: also, it's not just blockchain. the relay network lost about half of its edges since an hour ago
mircea_popescu: seems ~more or less, "cloudflare turned off the chunk of bitcoin '''infrastructure''' ran by imbeciles imbecilisyh eno0ugh to rely on cloudflare"
ben_vulpes: cloudfront is somehow involved in the relay network?
ben_vulpes is suffering from cloudfusion
mircea_popescu: anyway. last block was ~half hour ago.
mircea_popescu: huh ?
mircea_popescu: a here we go.
mircea_popescu: 997,999 kb har.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's your top block atm ?
asciilifeform: dulap & zoolag are at 426394.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1527034 << if this is true - good riddance! let's hope it stays dead ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 18:19 mircea_popescu: seems ~more or less, "cloudflare turned off the chunk of bitcoin '''infrastructure''' ran by imbeciles imbecilisyh eno0ugh to rely on cloudflare"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now that i think about it, i dun recall prb having ssl eater in it
asciilifeform: does it now ?
asciilifeform: (if not, how would cloudfart shutting down affect prb relays ?)
phf: well, that's what you get for..! oh, nevermind
pete_dushenski: bc.i is down here.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: btw what was that dating thing all about ?
mircea_popescu: in future lulz, 2b70ba3f5b9cb57fc76dba558cfe54f0b45d06433c1fc5ac454cb765e558a10865363958fcc6f4bd91c5ee43d742b8e160d74fc5e6b9232ed8d8a40cebc14e43
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's that
pete_dushenski: i dunno but bet i could fit that hash on my dong lengthwise.
asciilifeform: sha512(icbm_launchcodes.txt) ?
pete_dushenski: of course, no one will pay for this...
pete_dushenski: so i'd be working pro boner.
pete_dushenski: in other weird, http://www.vocativ.com/220997/autism-elevators-youtube/
pete_dushenski: “I myself am autistic,” says Reams. “Not everybody that does these elevator [videos] is autistic but I would say at least 80 to 90 percent of them are.”
pete_dushenski: "The channel is mostly filled with videos like the one described above: clips of Reams and friends riding in elevators. They ride elevators in hotels. They ride elevators in hospitals. They ride elevators in office blocks and public buildings. They film their rides in elevators. They film each other filming their rides in elevators."
danielpbarron: $reputation BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-usb/msg144177.html
asciilifeform: 'Linux Kernel panics when using an OHCI controller if a USB device reports being a generic HID keyboard and reports a wMaxPacketSize of over 4095. The OHCI controller driver fails to reserve bandwidth for the device, causing the keyboard handler to fail when attaching to the HID. Later, when the device is removed, the system crashes due to a null pointer dereference in a linked list of endpoint descriptors.'
deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/bitbet-owner-addresses-solvency-concerns/ << Daniel P. Barron - BitBet Owner Addresses Solvency Concerns
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/08/malware-infected-all-eddie-bauer-stores-in-u-s-canada/#more-35378 << noose?
pete_dushenski 's favourite backpack is eddie bauer
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i think the krebs thing may be my 1st time hearing of the vendor outside of a spamogram.
mod6: this is what i've got ^
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: eddie bauer is very 'outdoorsy'. they specialise in the climbing / hiking demo. mathmaticians may or may not overlap with this set.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: dunno, i get quite satisfactory outdoor duty out of old .mil gear from various dead empires
asciilifeform: for pennies on the original dollar/ruble/deutschmark
pete_dushenski pictures alf summiting with pointed reich helmet
asciilifeform: well the bmore folks - do
asciilifeform: ( see recent BingoBoingo link )
pete_dushenski: they're travelling more horizontally than vertically though
pete_dushenski: less likely to spear eagles, more likely to spear pigeons
pete_dushenski: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/22/bitcoin-investments-cryptocurrency-traded-digital-money << "Is bitcoin the answer if traditional investments are letting you down?"
phf: this looks as outdoorsy as SUVs are designed for sport
pete_dushenski: you apparently haven't seen the cayenne turbo s / grand cherokee srt8 / x6m class of sporty suvs.
shinohai: phf There was Eddie Bauer edition Ford Explorer iirc, speaking of SUV's
pete_dushenski: so there was. usual 'paint+badge edition' for american vehicles. see also 'daytona 500 edition' camaros, 'mary kay' pink cadillacs, 'hertz' mustangs
pete_dushenski: gimicky marketing for maroons.
pete_dushenski: '1 of only 10000' !!
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2016/04/29/petes-guide-to-investing-in-cars/ << for why that's waaaay too many units produced to be valuable on the secondary market
shinohai: Complete with luxury heated leather seats for those rough weekends in the mountains.
phf: i think mary kay ping cadillacs are awesome. so trashy
pete_dushenski: shinohai: heated ~and~ cooled ventilated seats ftw.
pete_dushenski: for black on black vehicles these are sine qua non
pete_dushenski: in other bad investment, http://www.freddiemac.com/multifamily/product/pdf/green_advantage_term_sheet.pdf
pete_dushenski: "We’ll underwrite up to 75% of projected energy savings" << need moar projections!!1
ben_vulpes: phf: i'd take one
ben_vulpes: kinda want one of those hilariously garish 2-door caddies in a matte pink
phf: ben_vulpes: it's only worthwhile when it comes with a voluptuous russ meyer blond bimbo
phf: and gass is 20c a gallon
ben_vulpes: my popesculator says "no no, the blond comes *in* the cadillac"
asciilifeform: in other 'news', http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/worth.htm
asciilifeform: 'Estimating Worth - "How $VALUABLE$ is my VAX?"'
asciilifeform: 'Of course the first thing you have to understand is who is your customer. And to answer that you need to know just who is buying VAXen these days. The list it turns out is really short....'
phf: and you have a pocketful of those 60s amphetamines, so you can hit every diner from chicago to springfield in 3 days, and then come back knowing exactly which one has the best milkshake
asciilifeform: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-MicroVax-II-World-Box-VMS-3-7-with-documentation-set-/232013130536 << demand for vax, apparently, still strong.
asciilifeform: >400 usd for DEAD unit.
pete_dushenski: phf: 'my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard'
phf: asciilifeform: there's a massive hobbyist market. well to do corporate programmers spending monthly paychecks on retrohardware. when i was buying my xl1201, i was bidding against a guy, who's been doing a tech lead thing since the 90s (an unbearably aspy fellow). he said that he was so pissed he didn't get it, he put a 12k starting bid on the next one and still got it for around 6k
asciilifeform: phf: the bolix was a special, really, case
asciilifeform: not really comparable to a vax imho.
asciilifeform: (there is, for instance, no wholly satisfactory emulator.)
asciilifeform: ^ how many old comps can you say this for.
asciilifeform: nor is the arch fully documented (again 'how many... say this for')
asciilifeform: i cannot immediately name any other vintage comp that is 'cult object' comparable to the late lispm's.
phf: right, so vax goes for a fraction of the cost. still same guy who put me in touch with dks, and spends 5k on each bolix, will spend fraction of that on a vax, because "it ain't bolix of course, but it's still cool"
asciilifeform: this'd be the folks who use'em as coffee tables, neh ?
asciilifeform: (only situation where the two are roughly similar!)
asciilifeform: and i hear 'cray II' made a killer sofa.
phf: vax lisp is a thing :p
asciilifeform: not only a thing, but helped to nail lispm with 'good enuff' on the high end market.
asciilifeform: iirc vax is where franz started out.
phf: but no it's just a special kind of mindset, i don't know how to else call it but people who are into "retrohardware". there's a pecking order there between "i have an amiga and a macintosh" and "i have a vax, a pdp, a ..."
phf: those people ~spend~. i mean they make the most money to put them in what used to be middle class bracket, but they don't spend it on houses and cars. instead on vaxen
asciilifeform: when i was a sad student and pinched pennies to buy lispm parts, then much later the machine, i did not yet realize that turning the physical object into an emulator would take 20 yrs that i dun have.
asciilifeform: so now i have the dough to get whatever machines, and it no longer appeals.
asciilifeform: and yes phf that last batch of sinners includes asciilifeform , just that he is not buying vaxen etc.
phf: those machines are joy to handle though, for same reason old keyboards are pleasant. they are not "made in china", but with steel chasis out of descrete units, etc.
asciilifeform: phf: even as late as late '90s, machines with such 'feel' were made.
phf: you know all that
phf: oh i remembe
asciilifeform: i had an hp 'pa-risc'
asciilifeform: it was a marvel of iron cages and emp shields etc.
asciilifeform: weighed approx. what a standard girl per mircea_popescu does.
phf: shit, i had a store bought compaq 486, which had ~solid frame~. not bolix, but somewhere there
asciilifeform: even ibm xt was quite 'ferrous' compared to modern junk.
asciilifeform: (~wholly sheet steel)
asciilifeform: recall when a cpu was a ceramic brick with gold-plated machine screw trunk sticking out of it ?
asciilifeform: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/KL_HP_PA_RISC_7150.jpg << like-so.
asciilifeform: and https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/HP-HP9000-PA-RISC-NS1-CPU_30.jpg << so.
asciilifeform: i imagine most of'em have been melted down at this point.
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> BingoBoingo: btw what was that dating thing all about ? << Trilema makes it better when you let trilema into your heart
pete_dushenski: eh i'm not much for dating. tried it once. was satisfied that i'd sufficiently sorted it out. moved on.
pete_dushenski: others are free to continue. for them, i'm sure trilema will be of use with regards to cutting the gordian knot.
BingoBoingo: $s znort987
phf: didn't danielpbarron made a point a few times that one is not to seek a wife
pete_dushenski: that might also be ex post rationalisation
ben_vulpes: nono pete_dushenski there really are no women out there worth wifing!
danielpbarron: most important is to believe in the entire Bible, the rest follows.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: HYPOCRITE
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: causes. aha.
danielpbarron: I mean, if you don't believe, then marry or don't, it's not like adhering to the rules without faith is worth anything
BingoBoingo: Nah, dating is a sort of sorting.
pete_dushenski: dating is more signalling your own value. pre-dating / scouting is sorting.
BingoBoingo: Nah pre-dating is rought sorting. Dating is a finer sort of sorting.
BingoBoingo: WTF is this signalling my own value stuff. I have inner peace and it apparently radiates.
phf: dating is the same kind of sorting as choosing between coke and pepsi at a grocery store
BingoBoingo: You must be sorting some bland pussy.
phf: obviously no true scotsman!
BingoBoingo: Only the Truest Scotsman, Idi Amin, the last king of the Scots!
pete_dushenski: only true imins drive merc 600 grossers
gribble: Current Blocks: 426412 | Current Difficulty: 2.1737548275723764E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 427391 | Next Difficulty In: 979 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 583.15, vol: 4962.09361008 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 586.765, vol: 8263.83094 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 588.29, vol: 4387.8261918 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 583.46, vol: 4475.50010439 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 588.576864, vol: 46042.42140000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 588.31, vol: 672.0591571 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 587.16, vol: 1372.60688695 | OKCoin BTCUSD last: 589.72592, vol: (1 more message)
gribble: 387039.9753 | Volume-weighted last average: 589.400425341
pete_dushenski: okcoin doing 5x volume of everyone else combined ? mkay.
BingoBoingo: Well, maybe they are least laggy today?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 18:55 deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/bitbet-owner-addresses-solvency-concerns/ << Daniel P. Barron - BitBet Owner Addresses Solvency Concerns
shinohai: Your outlook on s.qntra is rather grim though danielpbarron
BingoBoingo: Everyone has to make their own value determinations.
shinohai: Works for me
phf: pretty much everyone here was subjected to dpb's harsh judgement at one point or another, as is right and proper, he keeps us in check
BingoBoingo: Which is why danielpbarron is wise.
shinohai: If I wanted echo-chamber I'd go back to reddit.
mircea_popescu: he actually gets away with it better than alf.
asciilifeform isn't working from a scripture and labours under the handicap of occasionally being convinced by other folks of sumthing
phf: it's probably because alf is nominally gentle intelligentsia, where dpb can badmouth you and you ~know~ it could be worse
mircea_popescu: well the explanatory theories are well varied.
asciilifeform: re 'let's abolish buildroot', turns out, surprise! -- there were attempts at sanity : http://landley.net/aboriginal/about.html
asciilifeform: 'Aboriginal Linux is a shell script that builds the smallest/simplest linux system capable of rebuilding itself from source code. This currently requires seven packages ...'
asciilifeform: extra lulz at the tail end of the page.
asciilifeform: ( grep for 'Why does this matter?' )
phf: wonder if i could put pkgsrc on top of it
asciilifeform: ^ musslatronic, also, looks like.
asciilifeform: the build scripts are tiny, resemble mod6's.
mircea_popescu: not bad eh.
pete_dushenski: please, it's 'first nations linux'. aboriginal is so 2010.
asciilifeform: # This version of bash is ancient, but it provides everything most package
asciilifeform: # builds need and is less than half the size of current versions.
asciilifeform: ^ from 'download.sh'
BingoBoingo: Anyways this dispute danielpbarron raised largely relates to how different people navigate the WoT. At this point in time I'm not providing weight to low information connections.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1527107 << i suppose she could also come on, or near. but with ffs ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 20:46 ben_vulpes: my popesculator says "no no, the blond comes *in* the cadillac"
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/08/fratire-retailer-suffers-pervasive-malware-installation/ << Qntra - Fratire Retailer Suffers Pervasive Malware Installation
pete_dushenski: "astounding normal" << astoundingly
pete_dushenski: ""Fratire" is a type of 21st-century fiction literature written for and marketed to young men in a politically incorrect and overtly masculine fashion. The term was coined following the popularity of works by George Ouzounian (writing under the pen name Maddox) and Tucker Max." << o.O
pete_dushenski admits to being confused as to latest qntra title
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Fratire (2) A clothing style favored by "preppy" folk. Combination of Fraternity and Attire.
pete_dushenski: aha. the tsmr dictionary groweth.
asciilifeform: in other 'olds', material pertinent to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-10#1517688 thread, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X27-2WDIZR0 (gold in the comments, 'Seems like a nice tool to capture exotic and endangered birds for my Black Market sales.')
a111: Logged on 2016-08-10 15:16 asciilifeform: incidentally, a Useful Product Idea, plug-in replacement guidance module for popular flying toys, to pick arbitrary quiet frequency spread in a reasonably broad swatch of spectrum, when remote is paired with toy, rather than the current 'legal' jammable idiocy.
pete_dushenski: bc.i is back.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'm pretty sure the definition of Fratire is older than the Tucker Max one by decades. Maybe even a whole century.
pete_dushenski: who knew tucker max was so progressive. reappropriating old words is libtard 101. ie. "wage slaves aren't slaves because only blacks can be slaves!!1"
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, anyone recall the original "oh i created social consensus by talking to my own sock puppets on some forum and the imbecile law firm partners BELIEVED IT" scam ?
mircea_popescu: kinda what tucker max is known for, really. notwithstanding various attempts to market self since, essentially it's "im this dude who scammed a bunch of lawyers astroturfing social media"
shinohai: I forgot to add BingoBoingo, Charlie Shrem was unavailable for comment
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/08/noodle-bricks-overtaking-smokes-as-us-prison-currency-standard/ << Qntra - Noodle Bricks Overtaking Smokes As US Prison Currency Standard
mircea_popescu: and in other "better homes and bimbo guestrooms" news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3tuy50uOe1rrhvpno1_500.gif
pete_dushenski: " Gresham's Law bitch!" << i lolled :D
ben_vulpes: that redhead and dean!
BingoBoingo: shinohai: He's out and there is little compelling reason to trust his take on trends anyways.
ben_vulpes: f-faye raegan?
BingoBoingo: $gettrust Yankee
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: good set?
ben_vulpes: or video or whatever the variety speak is
mircea_popescu: the idea is nb.
mircea_popescu: "clears the mind".
shinohai: You know, there is a sense of accomplishment that comes from actually getting a story about ramen published in Qntra.
pete_dushenski to anniversary dinner. korean styles!
asciilifeform looked up 'tucker max', wants the 5 minutes back!1111
ben_vulpes installed cocoapods and friends, wants the day back
phf: > cocoapods
phf: http://qntra.net/2016/08/noodle-bricks-overtaking-smokes-as-us-prison-currency-standard/ << ramen is main ingredient in spread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sv4nb5VbAY
phf: i think that has something to do with monotonous, high carb diet that those guys receive otherwise, to keep them pacified
asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/08/noodle-bricks-overtaking-smokes-as-us-prison-currency-standard/#comment-67884 << related.
phf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2TTylnS6QM "~normally~ you're going to make it in a bag like that"
phf: "<jackdaniel> [04:47:11] keep in mind my CLIM fu is very weak though :)" yet the guy is collecting money for paid CLIM internals development
asciilifeform: suckah's born evryminute.
asciilifeform: (and N to take'im)
asciilifeform: $up abitserious1
deedbot: abitserious1 voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: tail -n 1000 znc-#trilema.log | grep -c "felipelalli has quit"
asciilifeform: on a typical day.
asciilifeform: somebody buy the fella a new modem ??
shinohai: or teach *him* to use znc
asciilifeform: ;;seen felipelalli
gribble: felipelalli was last seen in #trilema 3 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 44 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <felipelalli> mircea_popescu: why mpex isn't listed on Google anymore? https://www.google.com.br/#safe=off&q=mpex I just realized that yesterday, is that purposeful?
phf: "Systemd Rolls Out Its Own Mount Tool ☶ linux systemd phoronix.com"
phf: phoronix by the way consistently produces pro-freedesktop pro-redhat articles
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526961 < Yeah, I'm an idiot. It's even worse than that though - beach (robert strandh) bertay
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 17:35 a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 16:40 phf: asciilifeform: that attention from fundraiser and marketing that gabriel_laddel was so excited about ~obviously~ attracted not talent, but the usual modernizer suspects. i'm reading their channel logs and marvel.
gabriel_laddel: ed the CLIM project
asciilifeform: how's that
gabriel_laddel: We'd previously discussed all the time wasted on 'backends', he agreed that we should get rid of them etc etc, and then a little bit of money shows up and BAM, he's happy to entertain any number of idiots trying to 'modernize' McCLIM
gabriel_laddel: Also, he's funding jackdaniel, who is generating all the noise
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-23#1527236 << occasional lulzcow. definitive piece being https://archive.is/u41WH#selection-581.0-601.267
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 00:09 asciilifeform looked up 'tucker max', wants the 5 minutes back!1111
mircea_popescu: this was cca 1999 mind you, ie, about TWENTY YEARS AGO.
mircea_popescu: but the slowtrain patients still imagine "reddit consensus" etc today.
mircea_popescu: it's like being the ohio state valedictorian.
gabriel_laddel: on the other hand, beach did implement some of McCLIM on CLX, wrote the lisp-mode for climacs and has maintained the project for years
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell felipelalli plox to stop with the log in log out or you'll get banned.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-23#1527264 << geeks have no backbone, news at 11. there's some that are stubborn and a few more that are ambitious ; but neither of these qualifies.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 02:37 gabriel_laddel: We'd previously discussed all the time wasted on 'backends', he agreed that we should get rid of them etc etc, and then a little bit of money shows up and BAM, he's happy to entertain any number of idiots trying to 'modernize' McCLIM
gabriel_laddel: He's french, which is probably the core of this.
phf: https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3191/2526878703_5c6eaf10c3_b.jpg << nah this picture of his is probably enough to understand what his "discussed and agreed" count for
mircea_popescu: ye think ?
gabriel_laddel: "SIR the enemy approachs! How many men is it going take to defend paris?" "nfi, it's never been tried"
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: you don't know how to hide these annoying messages in your client? I am not doing this purposely. Or it is the network, or I turned my notebook off and on again.
mircea_popescu: phf fellow looks quite intelligent there.
mircea_popescu: felipelalli it's not a matter of me hiding them ; really look into getting a znc instrance, it's 10 bux a yeart or somesuch
felipelalli: ok, I'll look for it, thank you. I forgot about znc.
phf: ok, i've no idea what my point was, huh
gabriel_laddel: Eh, this is all my fault anyways. I'll file it under 'agreeing to anything counts for nothing unless in-wot' also 'recover key, dolt'
mircea_popescu: hey, at least you're young.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: got a mailbox yet ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: no?
gabriel_laddel: you said you're not sending anything without my key, so I've not asked.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: there's a crate here with gabriel_laddel's name on it...
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: email? I have a name and address I can use right now if you're willing to forego the key. Else, waiting.
gabriel_laddel: (person in question sent me addy for something unrelated)
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel oughta find his key.
phf: hehe "i 'av it, gov'na, i swer on me mum"
asciilifeform: and if he hasn't got it, to make new one sooner, and start working on new life, is better than later.
gabriel_laddel: Lel. I'm not swearing to anything. But if you want to take a what, sub 100 usd risk of sending it to $rando, I've the info.
asciilifeform: раньше сядешь -- раньше выйдешь (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel I'll file it under 'agreeing to anything counts for nothing unless in-wot' << = >> But if you want to take a what, sub 100 usd risk of sending it to $rando, I've
mircea_popescu: apparently it's hard huh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: apparently i fail yet again as educator.
phf: yo gotta try socratic method
mircea_popescu: don't feel too bad, i got a lot of experience with this on slavegirls
mircea_popescu: "master, i have learned lesson, will never ever X again" "bitch, you just did". *dumbfounded look* "back to your cell."
mircea_popescu: with the best of intentions, learning is ~impossible a task.
gabriel_laddel: Meh, I wouldn't be entertaining this notion if it were not for the fact that I can ~ sell ~ the x61.
mircea_popescu: but the good news is that after the first however many years of triple to five-nine failure rate, it drops to one or two, meaning that often you're forcfed to repeat the same point less than a hundred times!
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: it's worth about fiddybux.
asciilifeform: (if that)
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: not running masamune it's not.
mircea_popescu: lol he wants to put his software on it and sell it, check out the jew gates!
mircea_popescu: im curious if this kid's actually going places.
gabriel_laddel: it's quite possible I might get jailed first..
asciilifeform: well hey, if he's got a +ev amplifier, why not skip lunch a day or two and buy old comp with ~that~, then sell... rinse, repeat
mircea_popescu: i imagine he already doesn't eat.
asciilifeform: iirc smokes tho. can forgo smokes for a day, buy with that.
phf: ahaha forgo smokes
mircea_popescu: eh nevermind playing civ with other people's smokes.
asciilifeform: hey nobody said life of ze mind is eaasy!
mircea_popescu: alf is totally getting raped in prison.
asciilifeform: it'll have to be for forgo-tinned-fish
asciilifeform: (smokes, i recently learned, have been forbidden in the prison here)
gabriel_laddel is presently eating sardines in harrisa, artichoke halves, olives and bread.
mircea_popescu: SELL THEM!!!
asciilifeform: $s trading sardines
a111: 3 results for "trading sardines", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=trading%20sardines
mircea_popescu: o nevermind, i got it all wrong! "Tucker Max had the opportunity to be a spokesman for a generation. He had the opportunity to lend his voice to the revolt against the effeminization of North American Men, and maybe even lead a 21st-century revival of classical masculinity. Instead, he is pissing that opportunity away, in the hopes that hell earn a morsel of approval from the gatekeepers of mainstream culture and literatur
mircea_popescu: e. The sad part is, hes not even selling out. Hes trading principles, honesty and consistency for nothing. He will not reap money, power, or fame from his transformation into an emasculated poof. Tucker Max is ignoring his opportunity to be a part of history, and his only reward will be a well-deserved slide into obscurity." (cca 2012.)
phf: i thought milo yiannopoulos is the new tucker max
gabriel_laddel: vending machines for drugs. rigged with explosives.
mircea_popescu: which one is that one ?
mircea_popescu: not the conservative-gay-nick-denton ?
phf: the same, but i thought nick denton has that mainstream legitimacy. tucker max and m.y. seem like they exist in the same blogspace, i.e. people who used to post videos about 9/11 truth with that matrix soundtrack
mircea_popescu: i dunno, maybe.
mircea_popescu: truth be told us subculture is kinda arid and uninteresting a topic.
mircea_popescu: from obama's speeches to latest lindsay lohan lirics, i'd rather watch africans build huts.
phf: at least later is mildly educational
mircea_popescu: i suppose the sentiment is mutual : trilema is too hard, hurts the head and the undercurrent of disdain is hard to miss, even for esl tards.
asciilifeform meanwhile searched for vendor to buy a ranque-hilsch tube, and ran into http://www.goldenspiralresearch.co.uk/implosion.html
asciilifeform: ^ who said american subcultures had to be a snore! there still remain 'timecubes' from '90s !1111
mircea_popescu: co.uk ?
asciilifeform: airstrip one!111
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F7EE9D7418360EBF5222D566B0A5B811023AC29616EBC02A9EE52BDB5A00038A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 109599797444024509787856438588803873233485202369776957423109401507256514201183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <email@example.com>; '
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A558B10A1CCC09194358E0502CAFA4415F57F1944DD9FE618E2A2E2D29EFAC0F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 109599797444024509787856438588803873233485202369776957423109401507256514201183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <firstname.lastname@example.org
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/24698AD72475BB28F25AD63CC626A01EC41AF82BC51BC4CB8118FC5B15BDF42E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 109599797444024509787856438588803873233485202369776957423109401507256514201183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <email@example.com
mircea_popescu: is this first across A classes ?
asciilifeform: Telecom Italia
asciilifeform: and no.
mircea_popescu: phf intel says "roosh", ie some middle eastern looking kid.\
asciilifeform: that sounds very familiar
asciilifeform: for some reason.
asciilifeform: ( iirc mr mold linked to him, or possibly a node or two away )
phf: mircea_popescu: that's a very fine intel
asciilifeform: 'pua' genre.
mircea_popescu: o damn the pua thing.
mircea_popescu: dude, the naughts... what a dumb time i swear.
mircea_popescu: this'd better not be freshly donged assholes.
gabriel_laddel: does mircea_popescu have slavegirls swallow stool samples to bring their own tastes inline with his own?
asciilifeform: 'AS THE SUN set over Lake Eyasi in Tanzania, nearly thirty minutes had passed since I had inserted a turkey baster into my bum and injected the feces of a Hadza man – a member of one of the last remaining hunter-gatherers tribes in the world – into the nether regions of my distal colon. I struggled to keep my legs in the air with my toes pointing towards what I thought was the faint outline of the Southern Cross rising in the eve
asciilifeform: ning sky. With my hands under my hips – and butt perched against a large rock for support – I peddled an imaginary upside down bicycle in the air to pass the time as I struggled to make sure my new gut ecosystem stayed put inside me.'
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i had a chick suck out a banana like once, "de palmares". not really into the stuff tbh.
gabriel_laddel: nono, to change her gut bacteria forever
gabriel_laddel: put it in a gel cap or w/e
mircea_popescu: what makes you think yours would win out ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this sounds closer to faggot insemination fantasy than anything.
gabriel_laddel: Idk, never tried. Since you are the master in the relationship, I'd assume the sampling would only go one direction.
gabriel_laddel: but I guess we have our answer
asciilifeform: the 'shit transplant' thing never made sense to me, we all eat 10,001 kinds of bacteria every day, and yet some folks have one config, other - other, etc.
mircea_popescu: yeah but did anyone tell the sample!
mircea_popescu: you know the joke with the jew and the dog ?
gabriel_laddel: which one?
mircea_popescu: scrawny jew trying to go by gate of large house where huge hounds. they bark him fiercely, he's afraid to pass.
gabriel_laddel: a yea
mircea_popescu: owner is like "go ahead, what, don't you know barkin' dogs don't bite ?"
mircea_popescu: "sure, but pray ask, do the dogs know too ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the transplant is re specific problem, c difficile infestation.
mircea_popescu: it's ~the equivalent of making candida chick scissor with un-candida chick. except obv this'd work the other way.
asciilifeform: the 'let's copy gut bacteria of tribe x' thing is then reminiscent of the early days of blood transfusion, when it was tried as a crackpot cure for just about everything.
gabriel_laddel: blood transfusion from young mice to old is supposed to help the latter iirc
mircea_popescu: well yeah, it works so shockingly for one thing that they started doing it "to see". and there's DEFINITELY a strong undercurrent of alt-sex in there.
mircea_popescu: modern white guy is a little bit nutty.
asciilifeform: 'it worx shockingly!' is almost automatic way to produce a cargo cult.
mircea_popescu: recall the lulz of the various "corporations" in early history of finance ? brits got wind of italian/dutch economic practice, started... well, kickstarting basically.
asciilifeform: and never stopped.
mircea_popescu: arguably, yeah.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 03:09 gabriel_laddel: vending machines for drugs. rigged with explosives.
asciilifeform: picture how the infamous http://harveysbombing.com/Photos.html could have worked with bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: shinohai lmao check that out, exactly 0 tardstalk productivity. da fuck is wrong with the mouthbreathers.
a111: Logged on 2014-02-16 22:04 asciilifeform: son: 'whatdoyamean i gotta dip them'
asciilifeform: http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2015/08/25/bomb-shook-lake-tahoe/32363451 << more re harvey bomb.
phf: i guess they didn't pay
asciilifeform: https://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit << better pic.
mircea_popescu: wait who didn't pay ?
asciilifeform: harveys casino.
mircea_popescu: holy shit uncyclopedia moved on to fucking wikia.
mircea_popescu: there's no hope for the interwebs. seriously now.
gribble: Error: "!" is not a valid command.