Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-08-15 | 2016-08-17 →
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> termite colony in fact uniquely valuable model for us. << And if breeched is ripe for raping by ant colony.
BingoBoingo: Ants vs termites is the oldest ongoing way. Termites soley buff on defensive stats while ants buff on offensive stats.
BingoBoingo: ty shinohai
mircea_popescu: << the statement is exactly equivalent to observing that "keeping your mouth shut will prevent your saying of anything stupid". if that's your worldview, you're invited to follow your own advice.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-14 19:41 asciilifeform: mats: mircea_popescu will drill you a new arse for this contention (though i still do not grasp why)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo aha.
mircea_popescu: heh. aaand a trb node is at height 419220 for absolutely no reason ; 50+ connections, stable etc.
shinohai: ;;blocks
gribble: 425462
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which node ?
shinohai: Peace in our specified time BingoBoingo o/
mircea_popescu: oh since i'm thinking about it : there's two specific items tmsr wants to bring to the field of probate reform : a) no juridical person beneficiary. no government, ngo, corporation, trust etc may obtain as much as a farthing from any succession. physical persons only. b) no tax or fee of any kind may be levied against succession.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this almost comes 'for phree' out of how bitcoin works - 'corporation' cannot hold a coin, even now, only an individual key holder.
asciilifeform: which is part of the reason why enemy derps on and on with the 'multisig' nonsense
asciilifeform: they feel, in their bones, that the 'individual keyholder' thing is a mega-problem, and it itches, itches.
mircea_popescu: it is a mega problem
asciilifeform: in other definite non-news, who recalls ?
a111: Logged on 2013-07-27 16:08 ozbot: Barnaby Jack, respected hacker of ATMs and medical devices, found dead in San Francisco | The Verge
a111: Logged on 2013-07-27 16:08 ThickAsThieves: "Jack had been due to speak at the 2013 Black Hat cyber security conference in Las Vegas next Thursday, August 1st. He was allegedly going to present a method of wirelessly hacking a pacemaker"
asciilifeform: so now the octopus tendrils proclaim, that he died of dope,
asciilifeform: but how much sense does 'For six months we were lucky. The autopsy report hadn't been finalised. Cause of death: unknown.' make ?
asciilifeform: ( almost enough to make one ask, has usg wetwork arm now grown fond of gassified fentanyl, like ru fsb earlier ? )
asciilifeform: 'Multimillionaire tech mogul Gurbaksh Chahal — once one of San Francisco’s Internet entrepreneur darlings until he was convicted of domestic abuse and ousted from his own company — was sentenced to 12 months in County Jail Friday by a judge citing his pattern of violence against women.'
asciilifeform: ^ whole turd worth reading, a very MODERN!11111 trial, complete with seeeeeeekrit evidence and absent accusers
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu re d. duke probate case, moar lelz,
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: 'How do you honor your founder’s memory by tearing down her house?'
asciilifeform: hey - they unzipped! why not also piss!
mircea_popescu: at least they're not "promoting the duke family history of individualism". all good.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note how one gets "ousted" from "his own" company. because it totally was... his own.
mircea_popescu: basically, they stole his shit, transnistria style.
asciilifeform: eh ceo != owner, could always be ousted.
asciilifeform: (unless, in principle, also owner)
mircea_popescu: they didn't say "the company he ceo'd". they said "his own company"
mircea_popescu: words have meanings, even if the lizzards are blissfully fentanyl'd.
asciilifeform: the phrase is often abused, perhaps it was 'his' as apple was steve jobs's.
asciilifeform: when the latter was kicked.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but i don't care. everything the usg says will be used against it in all the ways it can be used against it ; and will not be used for it in any way.
asciilifeform: well i have nfi who formally owned the thing. if it was a public co, as i understand the board can throw out ceo if they decide that they don't like the shape of his nose.
mircea_popescu: hey. the source says he did own it ; therefore the source says usg stole his shit.
mircea_popescu: due process.
mircea_popescu: "we take your words and apply our logic to them.|
asciilifeform: sooo thing looks to be a private co., with ownership structure unpublished afaik.
asciilifeform: the business model is... spam.
mircea_popescu: like... 100% of all vc "businesses".
asciilifeform: and not only, but apparently infamous lolcow previously, e.g.,
asciilifeform: i have nfi why this particular ant ended up sizzling under the magnifying glass.
asciilifeform: there may not even be a particular reason. other than the fact that ~some~ ant had to pop.
mircea_popescu: ho prolly was connected unbeknownst to him.
asciilifeform: if yer 'connected', why not warn victim to bend over in advance.
asciilifeform: or 'ho' were part of deliberate minefield constructed for fella to walk into.
mircea_popescu: it's a natural trap that ; men don't take what women blather five minutes before being smacked too seriously ; women don't tend to land the bomb earlier than it's obvious they're getting smacked.
mircea_popescu: the principal avenue for avoidable bodies is precisely this - guy scores chick above his station, she imagines it's obvious he'll share he imagines it's obvious he won't, then she scores guy above her station because being married to someone else is a significant bonus to high level guys ; then the husband gets uppity, gets warned too late, slaps her arround and then next week gets killed.
asciilifeform: << probably replacement will look like this..!
a111: Logged on 2016-08-15 19:10 phf: ben_vulpes:
mircea_popescu: between that on the upside and the dude i linked on the mean.
mircea_popescu: << moldavian version of the same predicament.
asciilifeform: on black planet they have maxim, 'bros before hos', against this rot.
mircea_popescu: nonsense.
asciilifeform: (i have nfi whether, or how, it helps.)
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is going to priviledge the lower gainst the higher, and the male against the female ? two strikes against him already.
asciilifeform: dunno, folks who'd like to not butcher their friends ?
mircea_popescu: but the friend is the woman here.
asciilifeform: not, as i gather, in orcland, there the friend is the friend, and the woman - the livestock
asciilifeform: even the godforsaken english have the 'bros' thing in their folklore
mircea_popescu: that's loserdom, really.
asciilifeform: (guinevere)
mircea_popescu: think about it for a moment. you'll know a few hundred people. if you're the emperor most of them will be whores for the simple reason that whores know more people than i dunno, soldiers.
asciilifeform: sooo, roxelana running the empire by pulling on her muppet's strings, this is 'winnerdom' ?
mircea_popescu: you'll have to be careful to distinguish the butthurt of the losers from historical reality.
asciilifeform: unfortunately i do not presently own a working chronoscope, so i'm stuck with the written record.
mircea_popescu: myeah. especially problematic - the part where the successful arrangement doesn't actually get exposed.
asciilifeform: will happily read the butttriumph of the winnerz, when such is available.
mircea_popescu: it becomes obvious when inept derps practice it (see the clintons), but otherwise...
asciilifeform: 'there are good spies, famous spies, but no good, famous...'
mircea_popescu: you familiar with clinton's harem right ?
mircea_popescu: not just wifey, also that "lesbian" what's her name etc.
asciilifeform: superficially
mircea_popescu: alexander's empire existed in no small part because of the various whores, including his mother. caesar very much idem - and marc anthony failed to inherit it.
mircea_popescu: hitler ? need i name hitler ? the fucking point of fuhrerprinzip was "every woman in germany is a whore."
danielpbarron: << "high level guys" see adultery as a "bonus" ??
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 16:12 mircea_popescu: the principal avenue for avoidable bodies is precisely this - guy scores chick above his station, she imagines it's obvious he'll share he imagines it's obvious he won't, then she scores guy above her station because being married to someone else is a significant bonus to high level guys ; then the husband gets uppity, gets warned too late, slaps her arround and then next week gets killed.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yes. if she's not married, and wants to have kids, some sort of arrangement will have to be made. this has a cost. if she is ALREADY made the fix is already in. this is a value.
mircea_popescu: $up fiddlerwoaroof
deedbot: fiddlerwoaroof voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: $up thortron
deedbot: thortron voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: you know the joke with "tell me the truth, is he really mine" danielpbarron ?
mircea_popescu: patriarch lies dying - something like big daddy in the tennessee williams play. he started with nothing, just the rickety box of his bum father, and now has ten thousand acres of the most fertile land this side of the river nile.
mircea_popescu: and he has seven sons. six of which - big, strong, beautiful men. the seventh - well, a repugnant hunchback, like that "marketing director" version of mircea popescu.
mircea_popescu: so he waves them out, to be with his wife of lo these many years, and, taken by a stray thought, he asks her
mircea_popescu: "ida, tell me the truth. that last one - is he mine ?"
mircea_popescu: "yes, darling. that one is yours."
danielpbarron: at least in the line i quoted, it ends with the husband getting killed. It's better for a man to die than for him to live with his wife taken by another. (2 Samuel 11)
mircea_popescu: moral being that at some point you will have to decide what you want the woman to do. she'll execute your priorities, if she's any good, but they must be clear in your head first of all. so : do you want strong boys to work your farm, or don't you ?
danielpbarron: i would want my wife to not commit adultery; that's more important than whatever benefits might arise from such an act
asciilifeform: 'magic lamp problem'
asciilifeform: rub,rub lamp, 'genie, get my son out of that burning house'
asciilifeform: pause...,
asciilifeform: gas main blows, son is flying 50 metres vertically
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron this is your choice to make. but be aware that there's a perfectly valid interpretation of that joke where the dying man is actually proud of the competent ho on his side.
mircea_popescu: "did you want to try farming with 7 hunchbacks ?"
danielpbarron: and people are proud of the murders they do, I'm sure.
mircea_popescu: an assassin'd better be.
danielpbarron: (forgetting for a moment that pride in ~anything~ is already wicked)
mircea_popescu: for THIS reason, mind.
mircea_popescu: no oher.
mircea_popescu: pride is, in this manner, for this reason, by this avenue, the spark of lucifer, ie, the genius. he who would make.
mircea_popescu: people generally like to think faust is a story about someone else. just like they pretend italian cinema is about, you know, that place in europe, and they're ruled by hollywood nonsense. as if that's how things fucking work now.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> like... 100% of all vc "businesses". << Not quite. There's this entire sector of especially spammy companies headed by Preets and based on various forms of click fraud to drive revenue.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't, unfortunately, as if the 'hollywood nonsense' were harmlessly decorative. there are countless cases of, e.g., police AND arrestee both, acting out 'hollywood script' from their heads...
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 425491 | Current Difficulty: 2.1737548275723764E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 427391 | Next Difficulty In: 1900 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 47 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
trinque: asciilifeform: this is american life by now, but it's acting out "that pic I saw on instagram"
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: you mean blog spam?
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Not exactly
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you've been watching too much Beavis and Butthead!
BingoBoingo: More the "make money online" farms where they gather saps to collect fiat penny shavings for interacting with ads.
thestringpuller: dat mechanical turk money tho
thestringpuller: i think it was asciilifeform who showed me the chinese app rating farms
trinque: thestringpuller: boy, stop hhhwhackin in my trailer!
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: can't say i've ever seen it..
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: in beaivs in butthead there are several situations when they act out hollywood. they don't die tho cause cartoons.
thestringpuller: like the episode were beavis runs head first as fast as possible into a brick wall thinking he'll bust through
thestringpuller: cuz kool-aid man
trinque: beavis in butthead sounds like fanfic to me.
asciilifeform not burning with desire to watch this.
deedbot: << Qntra - Network Difficult Hits New High In Third Post Halving Adjustment
thestringpuller: trinque: wow i can't type today. good thing i'm not qntraing today
asciilifeform: << some fella tested one of the cisco payloads. appears to work.
asciilifeform: (wish they'd quit using kaspersky's idiot euphemism for usg)
asciilifeform: meanwhile, völkischer beobachter: : '“Per our Terms of Service (section A8), we do not allow the auction or sale of stolen property on GitHub. As such, we have removed the repository in question,” Kate Guarente, from Github's communications team, told Motherboard in a statement.'
asciilifeform: didja know, usg gets to claim copyrasty on its malware ?
asciilifeform: if you and i write virii, and try to file copyright claim against antivirus co, or against victim, judge will die of laughter
asciilifeform: but nsa - apparently not.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: qntra ^ ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'll wait a couple hours and prolly give it the Roundup Xtend treatment. Lotta little lulz around this.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 16:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't, unfortunately, as if the 'hollywood nonsense' were harmlessly decorative. there are countless cases of, e.g., police AND arrestee both, acting out 'hollywood script' from their heads...
mircea_popescu: " Good morning sir, Can you please see attached, was at the machine shop this morning and he said this has not been paid as of yet. This is really overdue, the machine shop jumps on anything I bring over, does quality work and gets me back the work quickly. Please, anything you can do to expedite this would be greatly appreciated." << speaking of spam. if anyone wants the enclosed JAR lemme know.
asciilifeform: lol jar?!
asciilifeform: turdroid infector.
mircea_popescu: seems like a parallel world, of middle eastern aziz's dwelling in immitation cubicals, running java machines on their "engineering" desktops...
mircea_popescu: the sort of social relations implicit in that text are so fucking NUTS already...
asciilifeform: payload is for a pnoje.
asciilifeform: and yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yhou can root iphone with a jar now ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not i
asciilifeform: but the other one
asciilifeform: the one where they exactly re-created the winblowz ecosystem without ever involving microshit
mircea_popescu: uh. like what, samsung something or the other ?
asciilifeform: complete with 'mother, why is yer phone so slooooow'
asciilifeform: the whole android shebang.
mircea_popescu: turns out microstupid is a way of life.
asciilifeform: and they've standardized enough that it is worth taking the time to write 1 infector.
mircea_popescu: they actually run a java machine on an android-os phone ?
PeterL: android sucks. is there a better alternative?
asciilifeform: PeterL: depends what you ask for 'better'.
PeterL: sucks less, but is not crapple?
asciilifeform: 'sitting on this razor-studded road cone sucks, is there better alternative ?'
asciilifeform: 'here's a cone without razors'
asciilifeform: 'no, i wanted not crapple'
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 19:08 mircea_popescu: << seriously.
mircea_popescu: that didn't work so well.
asciilifeform: lel this never recursed
mircea_popescu: anyway - the official tmsr mobile phone seems to currently be samsung e1200.
mircea_popescu: unless you were asking for a desktop, in which case make your own.
PeterL: that is not smartphone
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as "smartphone". just dumbuyer.
mircea_popescu: there is phone ; there is computer. which did you want ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wouldn't i make a great soviet shop keeper ?
asciilifeform: sure would.
asciilifeform: 'fish is what they dun have over there!'
asciilifeform: 'now bugger off.'
mircea_popescu: mno. "cardildo is not a thing. did you want a car or a dildo."
asciilifeform: i'ma guess PeterL wants a gadget you can read l0gz on in the train, etc.
PeterL: it is convienient to have phone/texting/camera/music streaming/log reading all on one device in a pocket
mircea_popescu: it is also convenient to have a cardildo.
mircea_popescu: the only problem is the sort of woman that you end up with, if you own one.
asciilifeform: what sort is that ?
mircea_popescu: well... big enough to fit the car dildo.
mircea_popescu pictures woman flying around with tip of boeing in her snatch, "YES! YES! HARDER!" for a visual.
asciilifeform: in some respects it is the beloved desktop that is 'cardildo'
asciilifeform: i.e. something which COULD easily be made small and - when detached from the 10kg keyboard - reasonably portable , being instead gigantic and stationary.
mircea_popescu: if detached from your head you'd also be a lot more portable.
asciilifeform: well - the head
mircea_popescu: what did you think the computer's head is ? the monitor ? the cpu ?
mircea_popescu: it's the fucking keyboard. that little wire running from kbd to ps/2 port, that's its spine.
mircea_popescu: has no other.
asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu riding with desktop comp in palanquin, six slaves at the handrails
mircea_popescu: what the computer does without a keyboard is digestion, not thinking.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, like baal in d2 ?
asciilifeform: 1 gurl to carry trailing mains cord
PeterL: you can have a computer without a keyboard (gets instructions from network or other devices), a keyboard without the computer connected does not do much thinking
mircea_popescu: PeterL similarly to a detached head, yes.
mircea_popescu: and ftr, my principal objection to laptops is that they aren't... WIDE enough.
mircea_popescu: if someone came up with the sane idea of making a 1m x 30cm laptop, whence the screen unfolds and turns 90 degrees, i'd probably consider that item au par with a desktop.
asciilifeform: i thought mircea_popescu insisted on ability to swap boards, etc.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing intrinsically unswappable in a laptop. just, manufacturers elect to be idiots.
PeterL: you want your screen 3 times as tall as it is wide?
asciilifeform: PeterL: mine is.
mircea_popescu: 3.3 actually.
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't complain if it only ran in 80 x 640 cga mode, for that matter.
asciilifeform: it is actually the ~correct~ way of making computer screen.
PeterL: hmm, I go the other way, two wide aspect monitors side by side
mircea_popescu: PeterL what do you do with them ?
PeterL: typically I have several programs open side by side, one or two pwr monitor
PeterL: *per
mircea_popescu: so it's really entirely arbitrary, for all you know you use tall displays.
mircea_popescu: naggum's 3 ring binder thing
PeterL: what 3 ring binder thing?
mircea_popescu: $s "less clutter"
a111: Logged on 2013-12-22 16:56 asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the infor
mircea_popescu: check out the crazy quotes. damn.
phf: most right monitor is definitely full screen porn
PeterL: I like to have several things open and easily be able to switch between then by turning head
mircea_popescu: he has a point in that horiz scanning is better in humans than vertical. so if indeed he does something like a stoick trader, 3x2 2x1 etc.
asciilifeform: which is why i have 4xvertical
asciilifeform: but when eye focuses on particular document, is is vertical, as it should be !
PeterL: or jumping back and forth between chemical drawing program and spreadsheet
phf: i actually have hard time reading documents when they start all the way at the tall top, but i think that might be from now harmful habit of laptoping
asciilifeform: phf: when the thing is tall enough, it becomes necessary to intelligently adjust the chair/table.
mircea_popescu: PeterL i dunno man, when i did the closest equiv to that, ie, swapping between building project and calculations, i kept the sheets one under the other, not one next to the other.
phf: asciilifeform: proper ergonomics is a novel thing for me, as documented in logs
mircea_popescu: phf not to mention banking.
mircea_popescu: but we understand, orcdom is orcdom
asciilifeform: phf: i personally like the resting eye level to be approx. 2/3 of the way to the top of the tallest lcd.
asciilifeform: but that's just me.
PeterL: think of this: if you have two pieces of paper, writing on one and checking data from the other, do you put them side by side or put on on top of the other and have to keep lifting it to read the other?
phf goes full tommy devito, "you motherfucker"
mircea_popescu: i put the one i'm reading on top, and the one i note on the bottom
mircea_popescu: in another life, /me got a lot of mileage out of an old painter's table for this purpose, checking civil engineering designs.
mircea_popescu: phf lol!
mircea_popescu: do you mean joe pesci in the "get your shoeshine kit" scene in casino ?
mircea_popescu: is that a spent dildo next to him ?
asciilifeform: spent?!
asciilifeform: ( i suppose, in the olden days, when a power dildo was a glass tube with bee swarm sealed in, it could be 'spend' when most of the bees are dead .... but this dun look like a beetronic dildo.)
mircea_popescu: every dick's eventually spent, you can make it of whatever you want, metal, glass, dun matter.
asciilifeform: 'water grinds stone' sense ?
asciilifeform: i can picture.
mircea_popescu: neway. i was jus' bein' a little stylistical.
phf: joe pesci in "how the fuck am i funny" scene, but the shoeshine kit works too
mircea_popescu: "tommy devito" eh ?
phf: that's his character!
mircea_popescu: so it is, so it is.
phf: "bing, what are you still doing here, i thought i told you to go fuck your mother?"
mircea_popescu: which reminds me of perhaps the best cartoon episode ever made.
phf: i was curious how thye going to make it G
jurov: "Fake Linus Torvalds' Key Found in the Wild, No More Short-IDs."
a111: Logged on 2016-08-15 13:14 asciilifeform: << these take at worst a ~week of (a very modest) cpu, to generate.
asciilifeform: this idiocy, of course, is smoke, being spread to distract from the fact that generating LONG fp collision is now reasonably inexpensive.
asciilifeform: sks, lulzily, continues to insist on displaying the short fp.
asciilifeform: which is where we get the mirrored keys on phuctor.
phf: i suspect that phuctor work has increased attention to gpg both on wrecker and on attacker side. no way that short-id collision would've been a thing without phuctor
asciilifeform: phf: recall the faux peter anvin key ?
asciilifeform: (one of the first phuctor finds)
asciilifeform: it's been a thing, for eons.
asciilifeform: just not, for some reason, publicly discussed.
asciilifeform: (even now, observe the pains to which the supposed 'luminaries', e.g., the kernel folk, go, to avoid mentioning phuctor)
asciilifeform: because It Never Happened! And If It Did, We Had It First! And Better! And Hanno Boeck! And Who Were Those Terrorists Again?
mircea_popescu: yeah this entire "id of rsa key" thing needs a fix. i imagine sha512 of tmsr standard is the only way to go.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: with a hash that long, you may as well simply display the modulus.
asciilifeform: 'key id' is a heavy burden to put on a poor old hash.
asciilifeform: ( we dun even know whether hashes work !! )
mircea_popescu: problem is you want a modulus-comment association no ?
mircea_popescu: buy yes, base-56'd modulus is an obv alternative.
mircea_popescu: actually, why the fuck are we even using "base 56", which is braindamaged (no 1 AND no l ? really ?) when we should really be using base-120 or somesuch, ascii-high-byte half.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you mean 58 ?
asciilifeform: (who and where is using base56 ??)
mircea_popescu: $google base56
deedbot: << BASE 56 GYM | Facebook | << Base-56 Integer Encoding in PHP | Ross Duggan | << Base 56 | The Base Youth Centre
asciilifeform: bitcoin used base68 for addrs.
asciilifeform: pgp - base64 for armourgrams.
asciilifeform: 56 - i have nfi, who ever used, for what.
mircea_popescu: ascii 36 through 126 inclusive (91 elements). much better.
mircea_popescu: perhaps excepting one of 96, 39. make it 90.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ideally tmsr rsa, such as for eulora etc, uses a fp and armored base90 as above. so there!
asciilifeform: which 90 ?
mircea_popescu: ascii 36 through 126 inclusive excepting #96
asciilifeform: why forsaken 33-35 ?
asciilifeform: and what did 96 ever do to mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: ascii 32! through 126 inclusive excepting #96
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's fucking small and looks like '
asciilifeform: lel, not to a lisp programmer!1111
BingoBoingo: Fuck it, encode with Baudot!
asciilifeform: y'know, if yer gonna have keyboard-typable format for keys,
asciilifeform: why not go the next step and have human-readable key.
asciilifeform: with the moduli, in, yes, hex
asciilifeform: the structure - as sexpr.
asciilifeform: why have the blob code/decode gymnastics at all.
mircea_popescu: because hex takes 2 characters per byte ; whereas this would take ~1.232 characters/byte
asciilifeform: and we will go broke over telegraph time, sending a few moar bits ?
mircea_popescu: 62% more bits.
mircea_popescu: and let it be hand-usable.
mircea_popescu: also, let it look exactly like passwords.
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the reason i favour sexpr is that 'magic format fields' are retarded.
asciilifeform: i.e. the whole fucking rfc4880/2440 business.
mircea_popescu: that's not really related is it ? all i'm discussing is a) fingerprint and b) armorer format.
asciilifeform: well ~having~ an 'armourer format' implies the whole bag of shit.
asciilifeform: where book-length turd specifies how the bigint bits must be stored, etc.
asciilifeform: btw if somebody wants to gzip the sexpr and base-whatever it, nobody keeps him.
asciilifeform: 'saving bits' belongs at ~that~ layer, not in the crypto format.
mircea_popescu: and for the record, base-tmsr=` !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_abcdefghijklmnopqrstuVWXYZ{|}~`
asciilifeform: there we go.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wait, what ? implies ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suppose it doesn't, does it.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, im trying to follow your idea here ?
asciilifeform: idea is that a fully uncompressed, dearmoured, etc. key will be a sexpr.
mircea_popescu: neways, 95 characters. 95^1.2177 = 256.02008. 2/1.2177 = 1.642440667.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i see no problem with this.
mircea_popescu: beats it being a csv line.
mircea_popescu: the one remaining cowlick is, should fingerprint cover the whole e, N, comment ?
asciilifeform: the e and the N. (in the case of rsa.)
mircea_popescu: i am in favour of includingthe comment. for the following two reasons :
asciilifeform: selfsig, on other hand, covers whole thing.
mircea_popescu: a) it becomes no longer obvious for enemy whether key is or is not = key he wants to look for.
mircea_popescu: b) i do not regard a modulus with a new comment pasted in as "same".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no selfsig.
asciilifeform: having folks 'die and reborn' because they switched email hosts is braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: wait, what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no selfsig in a hand-keyed item is suicidal.
asciilifeform: how will you detect rot ?
mircea_popescu: if your process can't detect rot, you can't use rsa.
mircea_popescu: how da fuck did you get the key ?
asciilifeform: i keyed it in from a napkin, say.
mircea_popescu: and you ask the owner "is this right"
asciilifeform: and he asks 'which this'
mircea_popescu: you can't have his key.
mircea_popescu: if owner asks "which this" you are not sufficiently connected so as for you to has his key.
asciilifeform: who, then, can ?
mircea_popescu: sane people!
asciilifeform: who trade keys using what ?
mircea_popescu: anything they know works.
asciilifeform: magical cable that transmits 0 error ?
mircea_popescu: no cable.
mircea_popescu: keys spread in wetware, not mechanically.
asciilifeform: and modularly-exponentiated also in wetware ?
mircea_popescu: machine processes ; people spread/administer. that's rsa key lifecycle.
asciilifeform: realize that when it is moved from place to place via whatever mechanism, it will rot.
asciilifeform: even talmud had checksums.
asciilifeform: srsly we're talking 1500+ y.o. tech.
mircea_popescu: it's not "the sks server" that is retarded. is the concept of machine-spread rsa key that's retarded ; much in the way of "machine-generated trust", be it embodied in "dao" or "colored coins" or "safe bitbet"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why should it care ? keep it so it doesn't rot.
asciilifeform: this doesn't exist in our universe.
mircea_popescu: anyway, fp is "checksum" de facto - if your modulus rotted it will no longer match the fingerprint
asciilifeform: issue remains with the first time you encounter a modulus/fp set.
mircea_popescu: the first time you encounter them you're in the presence of their owner.
mircea_popescu: much like dali certifies all copies ; he certifies yours.
mircea_popescu: talmud also had this.
asciilifeform: the 'fp as authenticator' only works if you, as mircea_popescu suggested, hash over the id string.
mircea_popescu: i want it to work this way though. if you take away my comment from my key and add something about how "miss piggy is the hawtest!!1" it's not, in my view, the same item.
mircea_popescu: though material encrypted to it will still only be readable by me.
asciilifeform: well selfsig prevented this.
mircea_popescu: but we don't want selfsig, for many reasons.
asciilifeform: for my edification, can haz some ?
asciilifeform: reasons.
mircea_popescu: sure. some classes : as it's unnecessary in the discussed scheme, it 1) adds weaknes through requiring unneeded computation ; 2) gives crevice for shitgnomery for no reason (see anvin bs) ; 3) possibly creates weakness through unnecessary computation on key generation
mircea_popescu: as it's not acctually correctly designed it 1) creates false sense of security ; 2) creates unnecessary byzantinism and "can't pop the hood on this"
asciilifeform: well, the way it is done in gpg (rsa sig of sha1) is indeed retarded
asciilifeform: but so is all pgp signature, in nearly same way.
asciilifeform: (yes you can swap out sha1 for 512 in own sigs, but what if i want to sign ACTUAL datum, not hash?)
mircea_popescu: 3) as it's theoretically nonsensical, it feeds a bunch of idiotic yet unconscious expectations in the mind of the user. i am well convinced that the general "i'll pull myself by own breeches" attitude of "creative" people is both due to and resulting in the gpg selfsig
asciilifeform: waiwat?!
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is a "self sig" ?
mircea_popescu: the one thing you can't do is - SELF SIG.
mircea_popescu: find someone to sign for you.
asciilifeform: in gpg it is rsa sig of all the bits in the turd other than itself.
asciilifeform: (sha1 thereof, rather.)
mircea_popescu: a key can't certify itself.
asciilifeform: it is a checksum.
mircea_popescu: a.key.can.not.certify.itself. never. not ever.
mircea_popescu: the fact that it appears to breeds idiocy in the youth.
mircea_popescu: the fact that the youth is imbecile crates such designs
asciilifeform: if selfsig did not exist, we would have considerably less clue re where 'mirrorolade' came from.
mircea_popescu: and so on and infinitum.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we'd also care a lot less.
mircea_popescu: and we currently DO NOT have any fucking clue anyway.
asciilifeform: well smart money bets that it isn't keygen-side (or it would have valid new sigs.)
mircea_popescu: this is the problem with socialist solutions : they cap the benefit certainly ; and offer some solution that half works. so you've traded the long tail of the future for the guarantee of current failure.
phf: selfsig seems like a side effect of meta information on key, which should be handled by "separate bits signed by key" anyway
mircea_popescu: phf what meta ? the comment ?
asciilifeform: phf: i have no dispute re packaging the sig separately.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you agree to package it separately, add to that "no automated signing of anything" and you've got my position.
asciilifeform: but it do NOT see the win from letting any arbitrary bit of binary garbage pass itself off as a valid rsa key + userid set.
phf: mircea_popescu: oh bunch of random shit, first name last name comment date generated random DOS era flags. all the stuff that's been brought up before
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mircea_popescu: phf they COULD just have made that "Comment" in some serialization and did the fp over it like i propose and been scott free.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i quite agree. if mircea_popescu wants to distribute his own key without selfsig in the sexpr, he is welcome to.
mircea_popescu: but no, ustard gotta ustard all over himself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "selfsig" comes in the form of "i obtained this key of mp from verified channel to mp".that's the sig.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't come from "this item assures me it is this item"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if phrased this way, it sounds quite laughable. but this was never the point of selfsig
asciilifeform: rather, it was a kind of strong checksum.
asciilifeform: 'this item assures me that it has such-and-such structure.'
mircea_popescu: mno. it is idiocy.
phf: well, primes stand on their own, then there's clientside mapping mp -> sexp of primes. anything else can be distributed by any other channel, including "with key", signed by the primes.
mircea_popescu: as they say, "save this sort of idea for when your father gives you your part of heavenly kingdom"
mircea_popescu: phf the only problem is that i want the comment to also be in there.
mircea_popescu: also, N is not a prime.
phf: mircea_popescu: comment needs to be separately signed?
mircea_popescu: and so on.
mircea_popescu: not signed at all.
asciilifeform: sooo if mircea_popescu gets a new userid (say he throws out his polimedia domain because dns is run by hitler) i have to compare the mods manually ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not manually ; but you will get a notification from me saying "please use 54kh6kl54j3l45 instead of ,mn54,35lkjh4l3 from now on. it's the same modulus".
phf: asciilifeform: wouldn't there just be a process to work with primes primes directly?
mircea_popescu: and you can check that it is, but only BECAUSE you are you and have them both.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, you can check jack.
mircea_popescu: and importantly, to continue this discussion asciilifeform , enemy can not reconstruct fp on the basis of intercepting your comms to me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what would enemy win if he ~could~ reconstruct the one element he cannot derive from the ciphertext, the userid string ?
asciilifeform: (recall, it is quite simple to generate the public modulus from it)
mircea_popescu: no idea.
mircea_popescu: but i'm not giving one single inch.
asciilifeform: the one nitpick is that you cannot sign with an fp.
asciilifeform: you sign with the pubmod and e.
mircea_popescu: the above was re encryption.
mircea_popescu: signature is a different (ie, public-facing) usecase.
mircea_popescu: not that you couldn't overload it horribly ("if this statement is signed by lkfjl5k shoot obama ; if it is signed by 3k4j5lkj54 shoot trump"signed) means what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you take an inch from enemy, but give him many more:
mircea_popescu: incidentally, cast iron pots make best corn poppers omg.
asciilifeform: he is now free to distribute 10,001 mutated copies of mircea_popescu's key, with user id '' and chumps, who were never properly introduced to mp in meatspace, will send mail to this addr, where it will be transparently forwarded to mp with new headers.
mircea_popescu: he is currently free to do that already.
asciilifeform: not with classical gpg format
asciilifeform: if i substitute for the, selfsig barfs.
mircea_popescu: lol. hence all the stuff on phuctor.
asciilifeform: aha. nearly all of it is predicated on broken pgptrons that don't check sigs.
mircea_popescu: the "noob can't think" argument can be used by me too, you know.
mircea_popescu: you don't have monopoly on it.
mircea_popescu: but we're not here to serve the consumer. we're here to make things right.
asciilifeform: well mircea_popescu can specify 'i dun care what happens to the 10,001' idiots
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what i specify.
asciilifeform: we aren't here to serve the idiots. but why help the meat grinder feed ?
mircea_popescu: we do that across the board. help it feed hurts it.
mircea_popescu: helping*
asciilifeform: in this case what is the use of phuctor ?
asciilifeform: consider, not 1 of the popped keys belongs to a 'human' in the sense of somebody we know via wot.
mircea_popescu: this is an argument no different from "oh but mp, why it will just increase the "activity levels" on site". i'm sure it will.
trinque: asciilifeform: that wasn't known before it ran though.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd rather detach the "waht use is phuctor" from current discussion.
asciilifeform: it is a question i get asked quite often.
mircea_popescu: moreover, asciilifeform , the design doesn't PREVENT me from signing my own fp and publishing the fp - e,N,c set so signed.
asciilifeform: 'who are these people and wtf do you care what happens to them.'
mircea_popescu: it just doesn't implement a braindamaged half-sorta-thing
mircea_popescu: that's MANDATORY for all cases etc.
asciilifeform: i've favoured a maximally-configurable design for quite some time.
asciilifeform: including, recall, even ability to specify a new crypto algo in the key itself.
mircea_popescu: so then. i dunno anything cleanner than this, myself.
asciilifeform: fair'nuff.
mircea_popescu: yeah, been thinking about that. my current idea on the topic being - that it's stupid to do THAT, because the key is subnode not overnode of algo.
mircea_popescu: if you want a diff algo make a diff key.
asciilifeform: problem is that key handling mechanisms tend to get baked in.
mircea_popescu: and i would propose this as an example of the pernicious effects of category 3 of bad stuff selfsig did. it made people think "key" is "identity". when in fact it's algo->key.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: (recall how sha1 ended up perma-fixed in pgp.)
mircea_popescu: yes, but i suspect we solve all that through not including idiocy in the spec.
asciilifeform: incidentally usg is so mortally afraid of reconfigurable crypto that it is SPECIFICALLY banned in the export ban list.
mircea_popescu: should we tomorrow move to cs crypto, there'd be no reason to "upgrade" "extant" rsa keys.
mircea_popescu: just make new keys, why carry along the twin headed eagle of austria.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had two arguments. one is that it dramatically simplifies the design of the cryptotron. (essentially becomes a mildly scriptable bignum calculator.)
asciilifeform: another is specificity-of-diddling.
mircea_popescu: now asciilifeform if cs were well specified and well understood from usage ; i wouldn't be against making "key" ambiguous as to which of rsa, cs it is.
mircea_popescu: but this isn't current situation.
mircea_popescu: and i fear instead of simplify it'll byzantinize it.
asciilifeform: e.g., if mircea_popescu wants to use a hash algo of his own design, with ben_vulpes's pgptron, he can.
asciilifeform: or if he wants to use sha512 on thursdays and keccak on tuesdays, also can.
mircea_popescu: at the cost of what, carrying the implementation i nthe key ?
asciilifeform: it isn't so big.
mircea_popescu: kills hand-typing
mircea_popescu: i'd like to leave this matter open for further thinking.
mircea_popescu: not exactly bad arguments.
asciilifeform: i suppose i ought to dust off an' publish the 'p' demo.
asciilifeform: as mircea_popescu can probably tell, i really loathe publishing half-cooked items.
mircea_popescu: there's a time for that. some spaces really could do without a lot of cruft.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless - we're fortunate, in that the job for eulora is for rsa only.
mircea_popescu: should provide some decent basis for later improvement
asciilifeform: speaking of this, where did we leave off there
asciilifeform: bitrate ?
mircea_popescu: yes, benchmarks
asciilifeform will have usable measurements, packaged with code which produced them, by end of month.
asciilifeform: incidentally what is eulora built with ?
mircea_popescu: gcc ? or what do you mean ?
asciilifeform: which gcc.
asciilifeform: (and is always gcc ?)
mircea_popescu: well no, jurov compiles the client for windows with something ; iirc llvm also worked.
mircea_popescu: ggc 4.x something.
mircea_popescu: visual c confirmed also lol.
asciilifeform: this is not fatal, but will need certain provisions.
pete_dushenski: << because deedbot fell asleep on the lookout tower, a capital offence!
pete_dushenski: ^contained therein is a translation project for readers of 'traditional' chinese script. my connex seem to think it's gibberish, but 'moar eyez halp' (tm) (r)
BingoBoingo: Wait what feifdom does pete_dushenski hold to decide offenses, much less capital ones?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-14 14:32 mircea_popescu: "resident ; show income of one bitcoin ; or holdings of twenty bitcoin ; may vote"
BingoBoingo: Well, then you gotta petition the peerage.
pete_dushenski: but that falling asleep at one's lookout post is punishable by death has been sop from day one in most every culture worth the mention. even canada.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i dun think you get to shoot deedbot until replacement shows up.
asciilifeform: sorta how we're still using gpg.
BingoBoingo: But is deedbot RSS reading a lookout post or is it a town crier?
pete_dushenski: i was joking! jeez!!11
asciilifeform: this is the other 'every culture worth mention' bit.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: good chunk of folk went through entire ww2 with a suspended death sentence, because there was elementarily no replacement for them.
pete_dushenski: ww2, sure. ww1 less so.
trinque: y'know, I publish to date the simplest ball of code ever to IRC-bot and all you people want me to do is polish some w3c dumbshit's standard
trinque begins to drink
asciilifeform: trinque: just pete_dushenski .
asciilifeform: drink - at him, strictly.
trinque: ahaha
pete_dushenski: omgerd...
trinque drinks at pete_dushenski... intensely!
pete_dushenski: make it cognac eh
trinque: cheers
pete_dushenski: trinque: ftr, i appreciate your contributions. goodness knows you save me the effort of manually dropping contravex links in here myself. plus authing! and searching! /me would be up shitcreek sans paddle w/o deedbot.
trinque: ah I'm just giving shit
pete_dushenski: plus, it's not deedbot's fault that rss is weird.
pete_dushenski: 'The 82-year-old lawyer already had a $60,000 American-made amplifier, 1960s German loudspeakers that once belonged to a theater, Japanese audio cables threaded with gold and silver, and other pricey equipment. Normal electricity just wouldn’t do anymore. To tap into what Mr. Morita calls “pure” power, he paid $10,000 to plant a 40-foot-tall concrete pole in his front yard. On it perches his own per
pete_dushenski: sonal transformer—that thing shaped like a cylindrical metal garbage can—which feeds power more directly from the grid.'
mircea_popescu: << actually this was lolled about at conference 1 iirc.
asciilifeform: << lel, and to think, i get this fir phreeeee
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 22:20 pete_dushenski: sonal transformer—that thing shaped like a cylindrical metal garbage can—which feeds power more directly from the grid.'
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 22:12 trinque begins to drink
asciilifeform: (in usa, 'audiophiles' at least occasionally do things that make physical sense, e.g., install doubleconverter ups.)
mircea_popescu: wtf is that crazy bloodshit.
asciilifeform: cargocultism and veblenism, what else.
pete_dushenski: << my guess is 'invited'. same reason he's on fbook despite having own blog.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 01:00 asciilifeform: soooo why is taleb on 'medium'..?
trinque: pete_dushenski: UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xbb' in position 52: ordinal not in range(128) << rss is supposed to be xml, hence ascii
mircea_popescu: i don't get this nonsensical theory. “Electromagnetic interference from appliances being used by neighbors could propagate through a shared transformer and have an audible effect. That’s not an unreasonable thing.”
mircea_popescu: sure, they could. what's keeping them from propagating into "your" transformer ? will github ban them if they don't respect notions of propriety ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 01:35 mod6: <+pete_dushenski> mod6: pleased to report that 99994k spins up on deb7 without fuss. only comment would be on 'trb-howto' to suggest '-lows' command when booting bitcoind for the first time. << hey! Thanks for testing that!
pete_dushenski: trinque: what am i looking at there ?
trinque: your thing shat non-ascii
trinque: xml way of doing this is &#666;
pete_dushenski: qntra too ?
trinque: no, but it's gagged on yours, which is a bug on my end
pete_dushenski: guureat...
trinque: well mine's easily fixed; however, I'm putting it here show that this is the kind of moron busywork that comes of taking something like RSS as bedrock
pete_dushenski: trinque: can you check if my blog rss has barfed xml before ?
shinohai: my twitter bot died bcuz new link first schema
pete_dushenski: << like hanging man died of 'rope'
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 14:45 asciilifeform: so now the octopus tendrils proclaim, that he died of dope,
pete_dushenski: ie. 'let's sprinkle some crack on this nigger and get outta here'
mircea_popescu: and in other great successes of provisioning, i fucking found horseradish. i rule.
shinohai: actual horseradish?
BingoBoingo: <trinque> your thing shat non-ascii << AHA, pete_dushenski's rss has long been the bane of town crier bots
BingoBoingo: $s horseradish
pete_dushenski is ashamed of his rss.
BingoBoingo: ^ mircea_popescu All you need to do is axe
shinohai: the mp-wp rss feed worked out of box for me
mircea_popescu: axe ? what, for men ?
pete_dushenski: shinohai: hey cool. i'll look into that.
mircea_popescu: one mp-wp to rule them all and in the darkness diddle them or how did that go.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: axe, like you know... I axed this dude for some horseradish
mircea_popescu: oh, the item simply doesn't exist down here.
mircea_popescu: much like lovage.
mircea_popescu: by now my path of biodestruction is pretty awesome.
trinque: BingoBoingo: is shitting mysql errors
trinque: hm, gone now
trinque: intermittent
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: AHA HYPOCITE
BingoBoingo: trinque: Thing will likely be staticified at some point. Tis the juggler's ball of least concern.
trinque: nbd, just saw it while in there
deedbot: << Qntra - Univision Beats Ziff Davis In Bidding Battle For Gawker Media Corpse
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Different issue, resource exhaustion.
asciilifeform: << veblenism (e.g., audiophilia, homeopathy, etc.) is a disease caused by idiot coming into possession of money. and there is only ONE cure.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 22:31 mircea_popescu: sure, they could. what's keeping them from propagating into "your" transformer ? will github ban them if they don't respect notions of propriety ?
asciilifeform: removal thereof.
BingoBoingo: trinque: If feed on personal blog fucks up feel free to remove. Updates atm are infrequent enough to manually drop.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i seem to recall that kako was 'audiophile', which lends some credence to your theory
pete_dushenski: << why isn't quote in <blockquote> ? BingoBoingo shinohai
BingoBoingo: ty fxing
shinohai: probably because in rush I forgot proper tags
pete_dushenski has qntra editor's rules scarred into memory banks
BingoBoingo: AHA pete_dushenski, "It works when you work it"
shinohai: BingoBoingo graciously accommodates my faults
pete_dushenski: << nuts. mehicanos snap up 100+yo us glass business. not even trump's wall can stop pesos from being launched over the border.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> heh. aaand a trb node is at height 419220 for absolutely no reason ; 50+ connections, stable etc. << did this get fixed? or is it stuck at that same block still?
mod6: ;;bc,blocks
gribble: {"blockcount":425523}
mircea_popescu: mod6 alf's black holing, it seems.
mod6: ah, hm. ok.
BingoBoingo: ^ anti-advice
mircea_popescu: also totally trollage.
BingoBoingo: Well lovage breeds trollage
asciilifeform: << lulzy. e.g., 'If prison construction in urban and suburban areas triggered not-in-my-backyard backlash, prison construction in rural areas, and upstate New York in particular, became seen as an economic development solution. According to officials of the local antipoverty program, half of Essex County households survived on an income
asciilifeform: under $8,000 a year. The Olympic Prison promised over 200 new “recession-free” jobs, at a starting salary of $15,000, a huge boon for an area with the state’s highest unemployment rates for much of the ‘70s. "It's the most sensible idea anyone's come up with yet," Lake Placid Mayor Robert Peacock told the media. As manufacturing and agriculture moved out of rural America, the prison industry moved in.'
shinohai: $up Daysylover
deedbot: Daysylover voiced for 30 minutes.
Daysylover: hola mircea_popescu aqui quiero hacer
phf: "Our records show that you are the owner of 2 Urbit planets."
trinque: heh, I got that too
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