a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 02:27 hanbot: asciilifeform it's when they don't deliberately tent their fingers with evil glee (or alternatively, pet a sleeping cat from comfortable armchair) afore launching Plans to Set the Werld on Fire.
mircea_popescu: and in other boobs, http://66.media.tumblr.com/13534c9f65c51506b534af2f2612b143/tumblr_nmnauuD7wf1tmg9jco1_1280.jpg
shinohai: Well, every office needs one. Or 7.
mircea_popescu: sorta like it's the job of the chick playing the cleric to go under the table once the raid's done ?
mircea_popescu: from teh office slut biweekly : http://66.media.tumblr.com/0f4e3d3d6e4c616c934fd7b315738f50/tumblr_nkta07rDx11s8rwvgo1_r1_400.gif
shinohai: Is this what a board meeting of tmsr would look like?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, weird that the capon population doesn't come up with this, you know ? there should be The Office Slut, a magazine, depicting and discussing items of juvenile interest.
mircea_popescu: this is a broad meeting not a board meeting.
mircea_popescu: "this is melissa, she'll be our sexcretary today"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 05:08 BingoBoingo: c machine http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/my-int-is-too-big
mircea_popescu: especially his discussion of kqueue and the hashtable/array duality + fd_getfile workings strictly indicates a) he's an idiot ; b) that http://trilema.com/2016/cargo-cults-a-case-study/ 's "This is what cargo cultism is, you see : memetic stupidity, inescapable for the aculturated. Even if they try. Especially if they try." is exactly right and, sadly, c) that alf is exactly correct : we can't have computers as a continuation
mircea_popescu: of the current shit.
mircea_popescu: i don't agree with his illuministic/humanitarian blaming of the hardware, i believe we can't have computers until and unless impaling every single derp currently involved in computing in any capacity, but this looks like a dispute for the ages.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/#comment-117699 <<< bwahaha this guy actually asked you to cryptocat mircea_popescu ? LOLOL
shinohai: Always got to have a shitty app/
mircea_popescu: i dunno wtf is with them.
thestringpuller: shinohai: Steem bubble may pop soon. Accidental ponzis never last long.
thestringpuller: Not enough BTC capital providing bid depth compared to market cap. Feel bad for makeup girl who "earned $20k". Probably would have made more showing her tits here.
shinohai: I fully expect every scamcoin I write about to vaporize in an amazing flash of bright white light someday.
Framedragger: damn mircea_popescu, your wordspersec rate is good. (and i'm yet to read the siege story!)
Framedragger: (i mean, what with translation and everything)
Framedragger: (typo, s/Semptember/September/ )
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: re "Your name is enough cannon, Highness, said Pototki." << (just curious: is the wordplay present in romanian, too?)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: great story, much appreciate
Framedragger: so the iablonovski fellow was the same who had advised against the siege, and who insisted on the jagers' bravery and terms of surrender afterwards
Framedragger: ...but yeah. the last para is a kind of foreshadowing i imagine, skeleton of a giant and all. such a strong image, incl of what's to come for them...
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504568 << the impalement is inescapable. i simply object to the notion of sparing the hardware they built - it is every bit as insidiously and infectiously idiotic as all of their software creations.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 11:31 mircea_popescu: i don't agree with his illuministic/humanitarian blaming of the hardware, i believe we can't have computers until and unless impaling every single derp currently involved in computing in any capacity, but this looks like a dispute for the ages.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504584 << (just realized the 'giant' refers to the fortress itself. but works just as well)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 13:05 Framedragger: ...but yeah. the last para is a kind of foreshadowing i imagine, skeleton of a giant and all. such a strong image, incl of what's to come for them...
jurov: http://www.darpa.mil/program/cyber-grand-challenge << just to see alf frothing ;)
jurov: "Cyber Grand Challenge: a competition that seeks to create automatic defensive systems capable of reasoning about flaws, formulating patches and deploying them on a network in real time."
shinohai: Maybe there could be a dapp for that.
asciilifeform: jurov: know that, if i had not escaped from rupturefarms, i would be sent there.
asciilifeform: jurov: i ended up in a delegation to an even lamer darpa thing, at one point, it was lysenko-level crapolade
asciilifeform: chronicled, i think, in the l0gz, somewhere
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 17:49 asciilifeform: btw when i went down into the snakepit with several dozen renowned 'cryptographers' earlier this year, i asked a few folks about this.
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 100967258343792882586359465099964743874115772336452279964534591772453169488949 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <firstname.lastname@example.org>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1E3E9002C721814E2C39E9F4BD4B5016523A5ADD56F7C40A0563637241CE
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 100967258343792882586359465099964743874115772336452279964534591772453169488949 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <email@example.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/203F16439790F93F40EDE8B6DDC2D70A8576C55FDB4E41ECD2480E4DB243AB1
asciilifeform: moar mexican dsl.
shinohai: Estamos seguros!
asciilifeform: $s sodamigo
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ty.
shinohai: I DM'd Stephan Tual on twitter to ask why he blocked me. Reply was that "you write fabricated information on The Dao and I believe you to be in league with mircea_popescu".
thestringpuller: Stephen Tual doesn't like mircea_popescu ?!?
mircea_popescu: who's that again ?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger wordplay not present ; note that this is a work of fiction - for instance the "killing of the commander of artillery" actually happened during a siege by mahomed 2. apud giovanni maria angiolello, Venetian banker to the sultan : "Era il resto di Suzava con fossi et palanche circondata, le case et chiese erano di legname coperte di scandole, solamente un castello v'era fabricato di pietra et calcina, a coste, et d
mircea_popescu: i fuora della terra, il quale si teneva, et era fornito, ma perche le vettovarie erano venute a manco, non si stette a perder tempo, et ritornato il campo per un'altra via, venissemo ad un forte castello, posto in monte, nel quale si trovava esser li prigioni del Turco, che furono presi l'anno avanti supra inverno, quando fu rotto Soliman Bassa, et fatta esperienza de haver detta fortezza, vi furono piantate sette bocche di b
mircea_popescu: ombarde, et per otto giorni si fece pruovi di haverla, si ruppero due di quelle bombarde, et quelli ch'erano nella fortezza non volsero mai haver parlamento, et tutti si difendevano con l'artegliarie et non si curavano di noi."
shinohai: He's the fatso from the slock.it team.
mircea_popescu: i can't quote the item for lacking a title ; romanian copies are curated and collected by ioan ursu as "historia turchesca 1300-1514), editura academiei romane, 1910 - where it's found at page 91 and urm.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller http://trilema.com/the-life-and-times-of-one-phil-daian-aspiring-nigger-apprentice-cocksucker might have something to do with it.
thestringpuller: Slock.it adding more problems to the p2p market. I asked someone once, "What keeps people from just stealing your bike once the slock is unlocked?" "Uh I dunno. We never got that far."
mircea_popescu: (i only bother with the reference because it's a very convenient example of many thousands extant that "nobody knows about".)
thestringpuller: Anyone else notice a trend that altcoins with high BTC trade volume tend to go accidental ponzi?
mircea_popescu: there;s a group of pumpers working them.
thestringpuller: i think only LTC has some liquidity on the bid side...
thestringpuller: I also just realized Steem copied Qntra's model. Have BTC investors, pay for content creators to create content.
thestringpuller: Just Steem is ponzi-fying it, while Qntra actually works...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504585 << on that statement of it we can prolly fall to agreement.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 13:23 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504568 << the impalement is inescapable. i simply object to the notion of sparing the hardware they built - it is every bit as insidiously and infectiously idiotic as all of their software creations.
asciilifeform: see earlier comment. all roads to sanity lead to some variant of lisp machine.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504597 << a) beautiful to see phuctor work as gcd proper, innit ? and b) wtf is with these broken ssh keys, they're all used on narrow ip spaces. third case today it's xx.xx.xx.yy vs xx.xx.xx.zz sort of thing ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 14:19 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 100967258343792882586359465099964743874115772336452279964534591772453169488949 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <firstname.lastname@example.org>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1E3E9002C721814E2C39E9F4BD4B5016523A5ADD56F7C40A0563637241CE
mircea_popescu: isn't this proof positive of DELIBERATE broken ssh key generation ? ie, context-dependent ?
asciilifeform: and, more generally speaking, AGGRESSIVE debabelization - BURN the 10,001 video boards, we need ONE; BURN the 10,001 allocators - we need ONE, in silicon; etc
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 14:30 shinohai: I DM'd Stephan Tual on twitter to ask why he blocked me. Reply was that "you write fabricated information on The Dao and I believe you to be in league with mircea_popescu".
mircea_popescu: can you imagine all the dudebro biscuit eating going around in poorly lit, unventilated basements while chanting my name and pretending the bit of plastic up their butt is really my penis ?
mircea_popescu: $up reydev
deedbot: reydev voiced for 30 minutes.
reydev: good day all
mircea_popescu: is this your production ?
reydev: not at all
asciilifeform: 'The Web of Trust is a buzzword for a new model of decentralized self-sovereign identity. It’s a phrase that dates back almost twenty-five years, the classic definition derives from PGP. But some use it as a term to include self-sovereign identity authentication & verification, certificate validation, and reputation assessment, while the vibrant blockchain community is also drawing new attention to the concept we aim to reboot it.'
asciilifeform: << l0l!!
asciilifeform: REBOOT IT!!111111
mircea_popescu: any conceivable reason we'd care ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for as long as they have the sense to stay out of the reach of the fortress that sunk teh ether-dao, they'll be fine.
asciilifeform: VIBRANT BLOCKCHAIN KOMMOOYYYYOOOOONITYY!11
mircea_popescu: for any value of fine that reduces to "flail meaninglessly among themselves"
shinohai: reboot = using 99 cent rattle can of paint to change colour?
asciilifeform: shinohai: nah, own liquishit, sprayed directly
mircea_popescu: imagine, some fucktards are going to have "the greaters impact" on "self-sovereign identity"
mircea_popescu: the only impact they'll have on anything is if i decide to use their skulls to remodel a wall. then they'll impact alright, and even temporarily color things.
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504648 <<<< this makes for better slogan "You can have your WoT in any color you like, as long as it's brown."
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 14:59 asciilifeform: shinohai: nah, own liquishit, sprayed directly
mircea_popescu: ahahaha, christopher allen "principal architect at blockstream"
mircea_popescu: not even "bunch of illiterate kids reinventing the world without bothering to check up the dictionary first", but the usual case of "imbeciles still jacking off to the notion VC can stand up to MP".
mircea_popescu: anyway, archived as https://archive.is/SiBb5 and https://archive.is/8ffqQ just in case someone wants the names for whatever kill list later on
mircea_popescu: reydev thanks for reporting.
reydev: while i'm up, can i ask wrt qntra, is it meant to be non-profit? as in, is the idea that shareholders are like sponsors?
thestringpuller: qntra has ways to monetize beyond having consumers paying shareholders
mircea_popescu: reydev why non profit ? it's currently worth more than gawker.
mircea_popescu: seems rather profitable.
thestringpuller: ^- not for shareholders (yet)
mircea_popescu: how not ? you own a share of x item that's worth a lot.
mircea_popescu: reydev anyway, nothing keeping you from joining... the web of trust. you'll likely be able to self voice, at least unless/until you go militantly stupid.
reydev: im already in it
reydev: have it all set up
reydev: im just not at the computer
mircea_popescu: $gettrust assbot reydev
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
mircea_popescu: ah cool.
reydev: anyhow, i dont see the revenue model for qntra if there is any, is there something to read about it?
mircea_popescu: if qntra sells to... i dunno, who hasn't bought anything in a while, apple say ? for a perfectly market-reasonable hundred billion dollars, then a shareholder that bought however many shares for however many bitcents will receive however many hundreds of millions of dollars.
mircea_popescu: that's the revenue model of EVERYTHING else, why'd you go "i don't see the qntra revenue model" ? do you go around saying "i don't see the linkedin revenue model" ?
mircea_popescu: because i expect you should.
asciilifeform: who, i wonder, would continue to write for qntra after this hypothetical crapocalypse ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seeing how it comes with 1 bitcent = 100mn dollars, i would expect EVERYONE.
asciilifeform: (and why would, e.g., crapple, buy it? other than to kill)
mircea_popescu: think : who's raping who here ? the game is not "does usg rape us or doesn't it". it's "have raped it yet ?" not binary but unary, only one final state available.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, it buys it so WE kill it.
asciilifeform: ah, berlin '45
asciilifeform: long way off.
reydev: i doubt most of these social media sites will ever be profitable? except indeed for the ones issuing the shares
asciilifeform: i dun even own a chronoscope powerful enough to see this.
mircea_popescu: what's the russian expression, карниз ? :D
mircea_popescu: reydev so is linkedin profitable ?
reydev: i doubt it
mircea_popescu: but for the shareholders ?
reydev: probably big time yeah
mircea_popescu: no media item in the history of items was ever profitable in the aluminum siding sense of profitability.
mircea_popescu: chiefly because... they're not in the business of turning out aluminum siding.
reydev: well youve given me something to ponder
mircea_popescu: you're welcome
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-17#1504253 << this ties in somehow with the typically murican expectation of "Social mobility", but the implications are yet murky.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-17 17:31 asciilifeform: the ~STABILITY~ implied in an alt-world where software ~actually works correctly~ is Ur-terrifying to the typical maggot, whether of the microshit or 'open sores' variety
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: chumps are almost biologically drawn to 'musical chairs' game
mircea_popescu: a fool's game, all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
asciilifeform: it is almost as if they all heard napoleon's 'in every private's rucksack there is a feldmarshal's baton'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-17#1504265 << i suspect by now the "3d printed gun" is moreover useful ; afaik work is underway to the typically ustarded pivot of "we're not forbidding weapons - only working ones ; you can still have 3d printed plastic shit! it'll be just as good as the real thing for what you do with it anyway, which is to say jack off".
a111: Logged on 2016-07-17 17:57 asciilifeform: in other 'news', this schmuck is still in business, apparently : http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-cody-wilson-ghost-gunner-ar-15
asciilifeform: it so happens that i was reading the docs for his mill machine just now, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0206/7642/files/GG2_Manual.pdf?4483922796295118618
asciilifeform: it is a fairly ordinary, and very cheaply made, cnc grinder thing
mircea_popescu: i was thinking, looks adequate and no more.
mircea_popescu: not sure worth the 1500, but anyway.
asciilifeform: and, interestingly, won't even make the 'receiver' from aluminum billet, you need a '80% complete' one
asciilifeform: to start from
asciilifeform: they are - currently - openly sold in usa
asciilifeform: just like the barrels, clockwork, bolts, etc
asciilifeform: but this could change at the drop of a hat
mircea_popescu: bloomberg piece includes the official ideological discussion of trump, check that out.
asciilifeform: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0401/8057/products/80_percent_lower_raw_lower_fire_and_safe_1024x1024.jpg?v=1430669926 << subj
mircea_popescu: by now an idiot familiar to soviet journos is well at work in the "mainstream" media. his job ? stick talking points into unrelated items.
mircea_popescu: he tells himself this is a stepping stone to a carrier as congress gofer - where he'll suck his boss' cock and do the same thing to "laws"
mircea_popescu: or whatever you call the multi-folio piles of maculature that place produces.
asciilifeform: (notice, ~all of the tricky metalwork: threading, horizontal drilling - is done)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-17 18:00 asciilifeform: or why he collects megabux of donation simply to give to lawyers;
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-17#1504301 << just the fact that "they were not attacking police deliberately" is now part of the list of factoids aparartchick has to insert into articles is indicative of just how fucking petrified teh usg is.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-17 19:58 asciilifeform: 'Mr Vancel said the men were shooting at each other before the officers arrived. "This was not a 'come at police' situation they weren't targeting the police at first - I don't assume so - because these were men out here shooting at each other in an empty parking lot until the police showed up and it turned into a gun battle," he added.' << lel
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504707 << think for a minute. 1500 (about ~triple the cost of making the mill yourself from surplus partz) AND NOW BE ON THE LIST
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 15:40 mircea_popescu: not sure worth the 1500, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: but maybe you like being on lists.
asciilifeform: can get on list for phreee.
asciilifeform: why pay.
mircea_popescu: some people prefer to pay, what can i tell ye.
asciilifeform: 'has a machinable area of 8.25″ x 2.95″ x 2.35″, optimized for machining AR-15 and AR-10 receivers' << mega-l0l
asciilifeform: ~useless for pretty much anything else...
mircea_popescu: so if i'm going to make like... three ? receivers, why buy this cuisinart for 1500 when i could just buy 3 guns and a six ounce bag from tyrone ?
asciilifeform: recall, it cannot even make ONE from billet
asciilifeform: you still have to order the 'eightypercent' from some vendor
asciilifeform: and get on THAT list also.
mircea_popescu: can you even get what you call "billet", but really is special alloy for rifle parts ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ar(m16) 'receiver' is not a pressurized part, it just holds the mag and the trigger clockwork
asciilifeform: folks have made them from wood, etc.
asciilifeform: the traditional item is made of ordinary aluminum.
mircea_popescu: yes, sure. if i was selling a rifle, and it had a wooden reciever, would you buy it ?
mircea_popescu: how about house with cardboard roof ?
asciilifeform: not unless there were no proper ones to be had.
mircea_popescu: how about wife, slightly used, slightly overweight ?
jurov: you can't cast the 80% there receiver yourself?
mircea_popescu: so i should pay 1500 in new capital outlay to produce replacements for... roadkill ?!
asciilifeform: jurov: can't cast the thread
asciilifeform: jurov: the thing starts life as a casting, yes, though.
mircea_popescu: jurov from aluminum ?! with what, a 300 amp house wiring arrangement ?
jurov: oh it can't machine the thread?
asciilifeform: jurov: nope.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: folks cast aluminum in jungle conditions all the time, it is not so hard.
asciilifeform: easier, really, than the machining.
jurov: mircea_popescu prolly confused casting and smelting
mircea_popescu: well i was going a little further up the tree.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but it'll get bubbly.
mircea_popescu: what's aluminium, like silver et all, < 1k ?
mircea_popescu: melting temperature i mean
mircea_popescu: 660 yeah
mircea_popescu: o check it out, tor finally going to meet ripple in that happy space over the horizon ?
mircea_popescu: good fucking riddance.
asciilifeform: lel if only
mircea_popescu: "Tonga will be permanently shut down and all associated crytographic keys destroyed on 2016-08-31. This should give the Tor developers ample time to stand up a substitute. I will terminate the chron job we set up so many years ago at that time that copies over the descriptors." << if there were a bitbet i'd put a little on "there will not be a replacement in time"
asciilifeform: one particular monkey got tired and handed off the master index box to other
asciilifeform has long wondered: whether tmsr will have a new bitbet
asciilifeform: it was a handy thing
mats: on the subject, anyone for some ad hoc btcusd options?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, officially-in-universe, all sorts of things happening for ripple also. to quote, "FXCH Ltd. clears first Blockchain-settled institutional Spot-FX trades", "Ripple named one of top 5 fintechs by Fortune Mazagine" etc etc.
mircea_popescu: mats what'd you use as a price signal ?
mats: bitstamp :(
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it will be an interesting anal piercing moment for the tor aficionados - EVERYBODY gets to 'upgrade'
asciilifeform: (the directory server is hardcoded in, iirc)
asciilifeform: this includes the exit operators.
jurov: mats: you want just speculation or delivery?
mircea_popescu: good thing you can't use timings and other side channels to unmaks them when such a thing happens.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'unmask', turns out, isn't nearly 'user-friendly' enough for nsa, they would also like arbitrary ram r/w into the chumpers
asciilifeform: ergo 'upgrade!1111 nao!11'
mircea_popescu: so is anyone going to actually bother a) factoring the ssh keys found weak ; b) go own the machines, copy over their ssh agent ; c) hack it apart see wtf caused the collisions ?
asciilifeform: we had this thread: unmasking is only effective when there IS somebody interesting to unmask. at other times, you gotta emplace that cocaine into the toilet tank.
mircea_popescu: you can be on the same list and don't even have to spend 1500 dubaloos.
mats: jurov: speculation
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty clear to the naked eye. dsl modem.
mircea_popescu: how did it manage to collide ?
asciilifeform: factory-baked ssh key
asciilifeform: these turn up regularly.
mircea_popescu: but it's not the same key.
mircea_popescu: if it's factory baked, how come the collisions only happen in C blocks ?
asciilifeform: $s 100967258343792882586359465099964743874115772336452279964534591772453169488949
a111: 4 results for "100967258343792882586359465099964743874115772336452279964534591772453169488949", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=100967258343792882586359465099964743874115772336452279964534591772453169488949
mircea_popescu: o wait it's the same factor actually innit.
mircea_popescu: no it's not.
mircea_popescu: look here :
asciilifeform: i see it
mircea_popescu: 100967258343792882586359465099964743874115772336452279964534591772453169488949 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 184.108.40.206 ; 220.127.116.11 ;
mircea_popescu: 3717621124200192314145705948137075738570941668159058108077267463226172347789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 18.104.22.168 ; 22.214.171.124
mircea_popescu: 10783613970442413934143578906158089830375140508817221044708965087575877867311152108386754333184784039689570945854780881166021712179361227812154341718049279 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 126.96.36.199 ; 188.8.131.52
mircea_popescu: so we have THREE pairs, all on the same /18, and with different large factors.
asciilifeform: almost as interesting is the number of boxes with DUPLICATE keys
mircea_popescu: this seems to me not a case of "key baked in dsl modem" ; but a case of "someone is running software which can be made to create deliberately weak keys in certain deployment contexts"
mircea_popescu: i would say as a matter of policy we should immediately hijack, copy and completely wipe these boxes.
jurov: you need to mitm someone logging in, no?
jurov: and i have nfi how to mitm some box in mexico
asciilifeform: ^ holy shit ^
asciilifeform: i slept through this.
mircea_popescu: wtf is this anyway, people decide to use a single key on all their boxes ?
asciilifeform: 'their boxes'
mircea_popescu: i'm guessing phuctor is right on schedule : just about time for yet another paper, a month after the prev a month after the prev etc.
mircea_popescu: plox to write it, i'm not gonna.
asciilifeform: thing hasn't even eaten first parcel of the sshkeyz
mircea_popescu: let's give Framedragger a courtesy ping seeing how it's all his data.
mats: how many ssh keys in phuctor now?
asciilifeform: and yes
mats: that includes unprocessed?
asciilifeform: mats: every single thing gets processed every 4h
mircea_popescu: no, about 10mn ssh keys, total
asciilifeform: again, and again
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored << gotta do something about that page.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what, specifically
asciilifeform: i kept it a 1pager so i can grep
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3BAE60DEFC1A4CF00D95455C8C27D08F0B7F770A80EBB11FAAD24306BAAB8DB7 << check it out.
asciilifeform: or, worse still, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FFE44716565274B160E764BAF3DAB84843CF87F35D08FF722A9CA560B547E607
asciilifeform: (the dupes page is a rogue's gallery of these.)
mircea_popescu: it's a 550kb page!
mircea_popescu: miles long.
asciilifeform: my current hypothesis is that enemy was a little more clever than reported by the bocks, and divided dupe keys into equivalence classes
mircea_popescu: if you want a csv version, why not make that. if you're making a html version, should have pages.
mircea_popescu: this "middle of the road" thing is bad for both usecases : when you grep it you waste bw on html crud ; meanwhile browsing luser is stuck.
asciilifeform: it is painful but: i kept the proggy short, and it is - afaik - bug-free.
asciilifeform: as soon as i add this'n'that, it will turn into whorepress.
mircea_popescu: don't worry, sucking cock doesn't make you a whore!
asciilifeform: at some point i will add paged-by-default and 'view-all' link for grep
asciilifeform: but doing just about anything to this beast is a misery bordering on self-appendectomy
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F2723B28577B087DB5E15C378870963A69E67E5BFD9A06EA88E7D8ABF4F5E29C << nuttery.
mircea_popescu: why misery tho ? you wrote it neh ?
asciilifeform: i should like to hear the 'innocent', boeckian explanation for the tall piles of dupolade.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wwwtronics is a misery.
mircea_popescu: dude dat link....
mircea_popescu: wtf is this.
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5C4F4981D4A37A5C961765FAB5CF1F30774125DEF35E37AA648EC5B015A4F094 << have another.
asciilifeform: tall piles of dupe keys.
mircea_popescu: 60+ instances of different ips using same key ?
asciilifeform: typically from a single /16.
mircea_popescu: this must be some sort of gateway arrangement.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, nobody could foresee the terrorists will use ssh keys as rsa unifying underlying, so they're entirely unprepared for any of this
mircea_popescu: in which case, it definitely should be pushed.
asciilifeform: there isn't much further to push the dupe thing, other than cataloguing the champs
asciilifeform: and printing in moar convenient format
asciilifeform: 'modulus M : 1,001 ips: ...' etc
mircea_popescu: well, at least it offers a hierarchy of "in which order to factor keys"
mircea_popescu: this afaik didn't exist on the open nets afore.
asciilifeform: it is a valid point: there is no physical way to distinguish 'all connected to same box' from 'boxes with dupe key'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one important thing you should add is "search by ip"
asciilifeform: could search by generic string, but it'll be slow.
asciilifeform: 'ip' is not a field in my db !!
asciilifeform: we went over this.
asciilifeform: having ANY new fields would make the thing 100x more complex.
asciilifeform: use grep.
mircea_popescu: at the very least you could make another page, "ips by factors found"
mircea_popescu: then people can search in that.
asciilifeform: this, yes.
asciilifeform: it'll be batch-generated.
asciilifeform: so far we have... 8 ?
asciilifeform: $s ssh-rsa key from
a111: 11 results for "ssh-rsa key from", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ssh-rsa%20key%20from
asciilifeform: consider now this case: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1de0673a-143e-4062-b1f0-3d414525f7f9/
asciilifeform: there are plenty of these.
asciilifeform: does not reflect 'same network' scenario.
asciilifeform: speaking of all of this, did anybody ever crawl the tor exit pubkeys ?
asciilifeform: we have...
asciilifeform: a winner:
trinque: huh, wotpaste wont resolve over here; I shit thee not
asciilifeform: curl -s http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/edd4ff91-9ae8-422c-9138-d3d89bee597e/?raw=true | grep -c -i "ssh-rsa"
asciilifeform: instances of same modulus
asciilifeform: ALL OVER the net.
trinque: there it went
asciilifeform: note, all of this is from not even one complete parcel from Framedragger .
trinque: heh, found NSA's "cloud hosting"
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bba8b759-dc4b-4df6-9085-e49bc2804527 << aaand another.
asciilifeform: who wants more, can dig with own hands, for now.
asciilifeform: there are hundreds of these clusters.
asciilifeform: 'nobody could have predicted!' that this will turn up!
jurov: heh, whois 184.108.40.206 times out
jurov: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/sadmods causes firefox-47 to spin for several minutes and then render garbage
asciilifeform: 400MB jurov
jurov: Still. It's just a simple table without js.
asciilifeform: sooooo, at the risk of cluttering l0gz, we have the ten winnerz:
asciilifeform: to date ^ exp=1 ^
asciilifeform: i'd love to learn what these folks had in common, other than the obvious misfortune.
jurov: and it's questionable why export it as html, when browser can't be used and we have to grep it anyway?
asciilifeform: jurov: because there is one proggy.
asciilifeform: is this so hard to grasp.
asciilifeform: there are not TWO
asciilifeform: same garden hose, for cake batter and for kerosene, i dun have a second.
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/69420B90B8B1C02C8C0E3F9F591801396FE97A6C87714A63D64C25EA47B5B88E << this last one is interesting. 'usaa' is a bank.
asciilifeform: the others are ~all~ 1024-bit ancient keyz.
asciilifeform: some moar lulz,
asciilifeform: grep -i "not prime" [sadmods] | sort | uniq > sads
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504774 << ftr, there's a consensus mechanism, so it's not "everything works or everything's broken"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 16:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it will be an interesting anal piercing moment for the tor aficionados - EVERYBODY gets to 'upgrade'
Framedragger: but, yeah, hardcoded, yew
Framedragger: hmm (reading backlog on ip address correlations) "this should be plotted". interesting
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 16:19 mircea_popescu: let's give Framedragger a courtesy ping seeing how it's all his data.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey i may be up for setting up some kind of searchable thing with everything dumped into postgres. not sure how much worth vs. time, but could be useful as these stats grow
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 18:26 Framedragger: asciilifeform: i have moar ssh keys for ya: http://220.127.116.11:8000/all/openpgp/ssh_openpgp_diff_2016-07-13.tar (diff from that 10M bunch, i.e. only new ones) 920M file, 1.82M new ssh keys.
asciilifeform: oh ya
Framedragger: 'cause you know it's not enough :D
asciilifeform: ty Framedragger .
asciilifeform: Framedragger: do you still have the raw mods somewhere ?
asciilifeform: it would not take long to snarf them up and 2d plot by ip
asciilifeform: (a mod with 2 or more ips gets a colour; plot each ip on the traditional 2d grid, and connect with line of that colour.)
asciilifeform: you do not need any of the phuctor logic for this
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:04 asciilifeform: 400MB jurov
Framedragger: we need teh api
asciilifeform: Framedragger: not only would an api take up more complexity than phuctor at present in its entirety, but the thing barely keeps up as it is.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504950 << you mean mods in the e,N,IP format? yes and they should be on the web, one sec
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:38 asciilifeform: Framedragger: do you still have the raw mods somewhere ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i implied that i'd be interested to maybe write an api; if everything's in postgres properly indexed, should be fine. hey i'm a masochist, all the better for tmsr!!1
Framedragger: (i mean i'd mirror the thing, or something)
Framedragger: so your original wwwtronic thing would be preserved; i understand and appreciate its elegance
asciilifeform: i dun see how it could be mirrored without substantial redesign.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: original 10M e,N,IP: http://18.104.22.168:8000/all/e-N-IP_all_2016-06-14.tar.bz2
Framedragger: and e,N,IP for the additional 1.82M key ball is in the http://22.214.171.124:8000/all/openpgp/ssh_openpgp_diff_2016-07-13.tar (file at top, directories under contain the openpgp'd versions). hope this makes sense, it's a bit ad hoc
Framedragger: thought it may come in handy for da analysis
Framedragger: asciilifeform: yeah i dunno if it can be mirrored. won't rush anyway..
asciilifeform: in principle, anything can be ~anythinged.
asciilifeform: in practice, that thing grinds ~100+ queries / sec. 24/7
asciilifeform: and they aren't consolidatable.
asciilifeform: and it lives on ONE box, not a cluster or wtf.
asciilifeform: and whole thing is a couplaehundredlines.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: well you wouldnt be you if it were otherwise i suppose!
Framedragger: neat as fuck
asciilifeform: phuctor is heavily bound by disk i/o.
asciilifeform: and there is really no cure for this.
Framedragger: does the box have ssd?
asciilifeform: (if it were a commercial thing, it would probably live on a large farm)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: not iirc.
asciilifeform: it has a tremendous qty of ram, without which whole experiment would be quite impossible
Framedragger: ..cause you need to keep the eight-ball in memory, right?
asciilifeform: actually no
asciilifeform: eightball is an afterthought really
asciilifeform: the remainder-tree (see bernstein's paper)
asciilifeform: box also hosts the only (afaik) 'five nines'-reliable trb node.
asciilifeform: (uses about 3-5% of ram)
Framedragger: (ah, need to read that damn paper finally)
asciilifeform: linked from faq.
Framedragger: yeah it's in my guilty-unread-pdf-pile heh.
trinque: only reliable trb node eh?
asciilifeform: trinque: the only one i know of that runs continuously without blackhole or other hiccup.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504926 << in truth, use a sane browser like lynx :)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:09 jurov: and it's questionable why export it as html, when browser can't be used and we have to grep it anyway?
Framedragger: works that way
jurov: you actually tried lynx? as we are speaking, it claims to read 30MB, at 340KiB/sec, and the keeps getting down
Framedragger: some time ago. could have been elinks. and yeah i recall it being slow
jurov: *the speed keeps
Framedragger: bottleneck on phuctor's end
jurov: mnope. it's reading from hdd
Framedragger: ah. should have checked. well damn
asciilifeform: from db jurov
asciilifeform: which is an order of magnitude slower than simply 'from hd'
Framedragger: jurov: oh you mean it as counterargument, it reading from hdd on phuctor. i thought, from local hdd
jurov: sigh, no
jurov: i saved sadmods.html to *my* hdd
jurov: and ran lynx sadmods.html
asciilifeform: at a certain point i'ma have to make it a batch thing
asciilifeform: namely, all of the .html will be generated nightly.
Framedragger: understood. well, so it is. i do recall being able to full text search decently once it loaded. but, okay, browsers suck
Framedragger: asciilifeform: yeah that'd be pretty.. sane
asciilifeform: thing has cache right now but it is good for 10 min. / page.
jurov: if alf did csv, he could just keep appending to the static file
trinque: asciilifeform: RSS too?
asciilifeform: jurov: understand, there has to be a db, because ALL mods get bernsteined against ALL mods AND the 8ball.
asciilifeform: EVERY 4 HRS.
asciilifeform: trinque: sure
trinque: I don't mind either way
jurov: asciilifeform: i did not say you have to abandon db!
trinque: but if that'll be nightly, I expect there'll be big farts of RSS at phuctor-o'clock
asciilifeform: well i ain't appending to anything
asciilifeform: problem is, phuctor unfortunately cannot be made 100% static
asciilifeform: because this would entail a page for EVERY key and fp
asciilifeform: i know of no file system that would not choke.
jurov: but that does not mean you have to completely regenerate all html from scratch every time
asciilifeform: nor am i interested in waiting for months for the conversion.
asciilifeform: jurov: it does if i want a zero chance of corruption.
asciilifeform: this is the v state thread all over again.
asciilifeform: if you want ZERO corruption, you gotta regen ALL state.
asciilifeform: EVERY time.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1505027 << well the rfc4880-formatted keys are already in one-file-per-key, in truth
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 18:08 asciilifeform: i know of no file system that would not choke.
asciilifeform: they are not.
asciilifeform: they live in db.
asciilifeform: in old ver of phuctor they lived on fs;
Framedragger: i meant that i supplied them to you as one key in one file. but yeah kk
asciilifeform: this made backups unmanageably slow.
Framedragger bike ride before sunset
asciilifeform: goodnight Framedragger
Framedragger: asciilifeform: fair enough
Framedragger: eh i may be back, shit's too interesting :D
asciilifeform: 'moral' of this thread is - phuctor stretches the limits of disk, fs, db, various shoddy duct tape that makes up modern kompyooooting shitsoup
asciilifeform: of cpu also, but the box is well-equipped in that respect
asciilifeform: (16 cpu)
asciilifeform: bernstein's also is, what was once called 'embarrassingly parallel'
asciilifeform: *algo is
trinque: http://serverfault.com/questions/6711/filesystem-for-millions-of-small-files/732832#732832 << cracks me up
trinque: "If you don't care about write integrity, it's great."
asciilifeform: afaik reiser is the champ.
trinque: I was sharing the lulz; db makes sense
asciilifeform: it is also miserably slow and sequentially-blocking.
asciilifeform: i'll admit that i've wondered for a while, what the ft meade version of phuctor looks like.
asciilifeform: probably custom db, clusterized, etc.
asciilifeform: with whole galley of interns to massage it.
asciilifeform: consider, rsa keys vacuumed up worldwide since... first clinton term
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1505059 << are you using postgres? if so, advice from someone who has run a (hopefully) decent www+db thing with > 100 GiB of data in postgres: follow https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Tuning_Your_PostgreSQL_Server or equivalent for your db (but i'll swear behind postgres any day). this is normal practice, mind you, not "hax0ring for nosql immigrants"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 18:19 asciilifeform: probably custom db, clusterized, etc.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it is reasonably tuned.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: postgres defaults are fucking stupid. `shared_buffers`, an important thing when doing sorting, is 32 MiB at default
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah ok
asciilifeform: and atm nothing is sorted.
asciilifeform: (other than rss)
Framedragger: okay, but there are other things; but if it's tuned then fair enough
Framedragger: effective_cache_size e.g. could be set to 75% of total system memory. otherwise - don't want to presume - but it may end up paging the fuck out out of the disk. or other things..
asciilifeform: i need the memory for the gcd.
Framedragger: ah it's a separate thing, right right. sorry i'm rambling without knowing / forgetting internals
asciilifeform: aha separate proggy.
asciilifeform: in straight c.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: just curious, is all that beefy server memory actually being used? by either djb gcd or db?
asciilifeform: during a run - most of it.
Framedragger: cool stuff
Framedragger: (hm, i'll go thru the ip clustering discussion again tomorrow or thereabouts, interesting stuff and interesting speculation how this came to be. need to find time to do some actual anal-sis and graphing....)
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504806 << unless someone here has access to some important backbone nodez.. :/
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 16:16 jurov: you need to mitm someone logging in, no?
Framedragger: logging in and resetting boxes via cracked *client* ssh keys could be a thing, though! keys are already retrieved i take it :) http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-20#1485892
a111: Logged on 2016-06-20 20:38 mircea_popescu: recall, jurov parsed all of github, produced a pile of keys and the convertor code
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504809 << just fyi the new 1.82M ssh key diff won't have that keyword in there, as i've shortened the comment string, as per various grumblings re this.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 16:17 asciilifeform: $ curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/dupes | grep -c -i "framedragger"
Framedragger: example: 126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (12 July 2016 extraction)) <email@example.com>
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504886 << Known Shared Factors: 1, Self (Ok, for now!). so it's just the same key seen from multiple internet-facing machines.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 16:34 asciilifeform: consider now this case: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1de0673a-143e-4062-b1f0-3d414525f7f9/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: buncha machines, NOT on same subnet.
asciilifeform: and more of these, later, in l0gz.
mircea_popescu: possibly found something like a nsa something or the other, a botnet / spamnet etc.
asciilifeform: a whole gallery of same.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504906 << i see http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/154d6211-de43-4d97-bc53-8eef366b1d5c/
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 16:49 jurov: heh, whois 184.108.40.206 times out
jurov: yep, now it works
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504926 << see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504843
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 16:23 mircea_popescu: if you want a csv version, why not make that. if you're making a html version, should have pages.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:09 jurov: and it's questionable why export it as html, when browser can't be used and we have to grep it anyway?
jurov: mircea_popescu: see later in the log, apparently appended csv would enable corruption O.o
mircea_popescu: i'm thinking the way this will end up is to separate the data processing ; data acquisition ; and data dissemination. evidently people good at any of these aren't good at the others, and have incredibly elaborate excuses for maintaining the situation that likely aren't worth cutting through.
mircea_popescu: sort-of what's been happening with the wot, for instance, anyway.
mircea_popescu: i guess some work poured into a semblance of unified dissemination interface is unavoidable, hence the shinohai wp project.
asciilifeform: processing and dissemination are not always separable.
asciilifeform: i would say that in the case of phuctor, they are not.
mircea_popescu: well the alternative is me flying over to washington with a rubber hose and pounding you into loving www.
mircea_popescu: anyway. why would you say they are not ?
asciilifeform: for instance, one of my 'wish list' features is to have separate exhibits for different kinds of braindamage - mirror, nonprime e, etc
asciilifeform: and to have the ability to introduce new ones quickly.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504937 << in practice a "consensus mechanism" as seen to work among angloderps guarantees everything's broken all the time, but they don't feel too bad about it.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:23 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504774 << ftr, there's a consensus mechanism, so it's not "everything works or everything's broken"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so ? you push out csv's ; someone displays them.
asciilifeform: GB-sized csv ?
asciilifeform: so we lose the realtime display.
mircea_popescu: trilema serves many many terrabites each month. what's a gigabyte.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm sorry, were you saying "i am a flaming retard right now, so what i'm proposing is moving gb of crud around for no other purpose than to communicate a kb of information" ? i interpreted it to mean "what if i actually have 1 gb of information, can i pass that ?"
asciilifeform: i dun like state.
mircea_popescu: at some point you will have to like something ; lest something decides to like you.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al are invited to make an actual list of urgent missing knobs
mircea_popescu: anyway ; the borders are fluid, the "data dissemination" part can just live as a "this is the official tmsr web package ; install it like so ; it's maintained by these people ; it does these things we want exactly right and no more"
BingoBoingo: Doesn't like vermin, also doesn't like organo phosphates. Dilemmas.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't automatically have to be "send your data to X guy who runs the official data-dump server"
mircea_popescu: for instance, it'd evident we want : a) csv, for to grep ; b) tmsr-html, which is NOT html, and not just because it does not allow js ; c) tmsr-svg, which i'm going to pretend is svg, because gnarly. somewhere inbetween b and c a latex fits in as previously discussed in logs.
asciilifeform: the ~sane way to do wwwtronics would be a thing that would, when given a db made with particular constraints, cleanly present it wwwtronically.
mircea_popescu: there's prolly room for rss or somesuch also.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.
asciilifeform: without my or anybody else having to sit there and write a table shitter
asciilifeform: for some reason we went for 25 years and no such thing ever appeared...
mircea_popescu: this only partially solves the www problem though. servers have to be lovingly helped to stay up over ddos etc crapolade ; why the fuck does apache not work properly etc etc. but these we can abstract for now i hope.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "we". some idiots went , weren't us and it shows.
asciilifeform: so far every rock i turn over has 10,000,001 worms under it.
asciilifeform: i doubt that apache will fare any differently.
mircea_popescu: ya well. anyway, this is kind-of the direction i was dreaming for the wp thing.
mircea_popescu: you know what the name comes from right ?
mircea_popescu: shit's patchy.
mircea_popescu: anyway. in practice there's also nginx, which i doubt is any better ; and i don't foresee our writing of a web server right nao.
asciilifeform: it is probably the ~least~ complicated piece, actually.
asciilifeform: www server doesn't do much.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504940 << basically you can start your own nsa on this basis ; prolly get better results by the end of the year than the original.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:29 Framedragger: hmm (reading backlog on ip address correlations) "this should be plotted". interesting
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you want to write a web server now ?!
asciilifeform: well i've no reasonable os to plant it in, that would justify it
asciilifeform: but i'm not averse to doing the chore when it comes time.
mircea_popescu: myeah. but it's modular anyway, so. until such a time, we just need a hm. either php or lisp i guess. or maybe hammer the extant python-whatcha call it into shape.
trinque: openbsd's httpd doesn't look like that much src to read, while we're still in c-machine hell.
trinque: plenty of lisp tools there too; I've used hunchentoot plenty
asciilifeform: afaik the lisp folks here are all using hunchentoot
trinque: the missing tool here sounds like a generic reporting engine that speaks SQL and farts graphs, CSV
mircea_popescu: certainly less wrong with openbsd than... fucking red hat or w/e.
mircea_popescu: trinque the largest conundrum is the tex and sql end ; but that can also wait.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not convinced of this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've not yet succeeded in setting up a 100% de-drepperized openbsd.
asciilifeform: unlike gentoo.
mircea_popescu: if you build alf a web tool that looks and feels like whatever apple doohickey he fell in love with as a kid, he'll love you long time.
asciilifeform: it pulls in the crud and lacks anything like 'USE' flags to kill it
trinque: I have need for the reporting thing myself anyway
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform honestly i was thinking just pick one, clean it and repackage it.
trinque: it's generally useful for goddamned every web app that ever webbed
mircea_popescu: trinque you wanna try this wonder ?
mircea_popescu: shit, among all this actual productive work i nearly missed the lulz explosion on qntra.
trinque: yeah I can take a crack at it. sounds like something that has a list of SQL views, list of kinds of output. you pair those up, allow filtering on fields (particularly time)
mircea_popescu: this'd be my thinking ya
deedbot: [Qntra] Arizona Deputies Refused Service By Taco Bell Employee - http://qntra.net/2016/07/arizona-deputies-refused-service-by-taco-bell-employee/
asciilifeform: 'the meaning DAO's contract' --> 'the meaning of DAO's contract' ??
asciilifeform: shinohai ^
mircea_popescu: trinque incidentally, i suspect the entire website model is dumb as presented. currently, under pressure from ustards/business majors/other unwelcome masses, a website is a collection of webpages that is very similar to how a tv show is a collection of tv frames. MAYBE they'll let the user have a tivo, but that's at the most.
shinohai: ty asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: whreas the fucking internet is not made to be a cable tv substitute omfg. website should mean that the user can do a bunch of shit, according to what he may need, some of which not necessarily foreseen by author.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'the meaning DAO's contract' --> 'the meaning of DAO's contract' ?? << fxd
mircea_popescu: so yes, very much a "view over db" sort of thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will note that this was theoretically the promise of ~every 'framework' ever published, but each and every single one cancerously deviated from it
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, thing could let trusted folks write queries
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no argument.
mircea_popescu: trinque basically, it should be conceptualized not as a "this is a sheet i printed this and that on" but more like "what'd you like in your plate here ?"
trinque: certainly so.
mircea_popescu: which is why trilema, or qntra, have, say, a FUCKING ARCHIVE PAGE
mircea_popescu: but the "media properties", from "one side" to "the other same side" of "the spectrum" ... do not.
mircea_popescu: a tiny example, but indicative of the conceptual difference.
trinque: I confess to having already written parts of the thing.
mircea_popescu: in short : the web is very, very broken - but most of the breakage isn't even in the software. yes apache sucks and wtf is js even.
mircea_popescu: the big problem is that lazy thinkers and "hopefuls" of all stripes have made it into their comfortable home. this can't fucking stand.
asciilifeform: this is almost the c machine thread again.
asciilifeform: even if you expel the vermin, the medium is still verminiferous.
asciilifeform: browser is profoundly brain-damaged by design.
trinque: it can be used as no more sophisticated a thing than a cmdline tool that shits text
trinque: *the output thereof
asciilifeform: trinque: which it ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform once there exist as many as five proper pages, you can have a proper browser.
mircea_popescu: trinque i was more thinking lynx but yea
trinque: lynx shall work
asciilifeform: anyone ever tempted to revive gopher ?
mircea_popescu: imo gopher sucked.
asciilifeform: in some ways it was closer to the hypothetical item in this thread than any variant of www.
trinque: in either case, the thing can be written such that www is not a large part of what it is
mircea_popescu: and a goat is closer to a young woman than any old whore - it's tighter down there.
trinque: relatedly I'm about to drop a vpatch for cmdbot
trinque: which is the core of deedbot
trinque: thing's written such that it would hop atop gossipd and provide commands just as easily
trinque: one part eats IRC and writes to postgresql, sends pg_notify to connected db clients that there are new rows; another listens for new rows in an outbox table to write to the chan
trinque: services attach to db
mircea_popescu: going back to history for a minute here - at first there was the text internet ; and then as bw and hdds grew up and people could have gifs of samatha fox's snatch rather than ascii art of same, they all rushed to... basically, this shitfest of netscape, internet exploder etc.
mircea_popescu: time to take that shit back, just because "it has images" is no excuse for the existence of say firefox.
mircea_popescu: or outright atrocities like chrome.
mircea_popescu: trinque what is this, python ?
trinque: common lisp
mircea_popescu: i didn't realise lisp is practically useful.
mircea_popescu: and in other "hope for the hopefuls" news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/56c2e25b663d2159e09edaadb9191b8e/tumblr_nb24e741rw1qc2yxpo1_1280.jpg
trinque: cmdbot is 232 lines of the stuff, can ghost nick, reconnect properly
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504976 << you know i can prolly arrange something for this... what part of i/o ? seeking or what ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:49 asciilifeform: phuctor is heavily bound by disk i/o.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1505151 << possibly this can be hacked up by putting data into postgres, and then allowing read-only sql access via one of them web-access-to-your-db things.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 19:37 trinque: the missing tool here sounds like a generic reporting engine that speaks SQL and farts graphs, CSV
Framedragger: but i, too, am interested in taking a stab at a sane implementation, fwiw!
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ssd would help much on that machine i'd suspect, if it's really i/o bound, as simplistic as it sounds
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seeking. but really i'd rather optimize the proggy than add to the (already gigantic) recurring cost.
asciilifeform: my best thought so far is the nightly static html thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in principle i could get a bank of 4 ssd's in a raid which should make it faster-than-ram
asciilifeform: the more i think about it, the more the static thing seems like the correct pill.
Framedragger: won't be fast than ram, what are you smoking :)
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you make a proper profiling sometime we can go through it and see. but, you're right wrt squeezing the software first if it can be squeezed.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i'm smoking drives :D
Framedragger: then.. plz continue :D
Framedragger: re sane web, there were semi-decent attempts which have made use of. for example, declare db model in python file, make $framework produce a working api over that model, incl implementing all the http methods corresponding to operations (GET, POST, PUT, DELETE)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger for the sake of argument : ddr3 does say 2k cycles and latency is about 10 ; proper ssd does what, 100k iops on a 4k block ?
Framedragger: dunno but numbers make sense to me
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ~1 order of magnitude diff.
trinque: Framedragger: those completely suck.
trinque: the structure is already in the database catalog
trinque: why duplicate it
Framedragger: trinque: well.. eventually they do once you stretch them
mircea_popescu: so then your ram can do 200 iops and a quad ssd raid can do about 300k. ie, 10^3 moar :D
Framedragger: ... "something is not right"
Framedragger: trinque: you can *declare* your catalog in said py file, and make $framework build db for you; etc.; but sure, it's still shitty
trinque: so then why do it?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter what you hang off pci, there is a ~10x variance of front-side vs back-side bus
Framedragger: trinque: saves lots of time, for one, and quite a bit of redundancy. don't need to manually implement api endpoints etc
shinohai: http://archive.is/62oC4 <<< tor replacement supposedly being researched by, ait for it, MIT!
asciilifeform: Framedragger: this may very well turn out to be an ai-complete program, because most gigantic db have various optimizations for speed, that do not map in a straightforward way to display.
trinque: the right way to build this is to have a table which points to a view name, an output type, some field mappings from the outputs of the view to the parameters of the output type
trinque: wtf is complicated about that
trinque: AI my foot
asciilifeform: i was specifically speaking of schema design.
trinque: you write a view and plug it into one of a few data shitters
asciilifeform: now this, yes.
Framedragger hoodwinked by mp's cycles vs iops
mircea_popescu: shinohai mitrosoft.
mircea_popescu: for spanish speakers the difference is negligible.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: true that
trinque: Framedragger: django et al are enemies of the republic
asciilifeform: 'MIT researchers devise a secure anonymity network that’s 10x faster than Tor' << FASTER!11111 so that you can broadcast your keystroke timings!!
shinohai: I love how hispanics here say "Meeeeecrosoft"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 00:29 asciilifeform: it is known to me, for instance, that usg is presently spending stupendous sums on 'biometric' profiling of typing pattern, for as many victims as possible.
Framedragger: trinque: so many enemies.. flask, too?
mircea_popescu: no iirc they used flask.
trinque: Framedragger: no harm in duplicating effort if it's instructive; go head
Framedragger: wait, who did? confused
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: wasn't phuctor display flask based ?
mircea_popescu: $s flask
trinque: every $framework poorly duplicates information and functionality already in a proper db
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah! flask is useful and quick to prototype on, fwiw
Framedragger: trinque: no but i agree and won't argue the opposite!
asciilifeform: aha, i used it
trinque: poor ben_vulpes is gonna be in for a triggering when he catches up on logs
asciilifeform: was sorta stuck with it, because the rfc4880 parser was a python lib, and i did not have time to write one from scratch.
asciilifeform: so it pulled in the whole shebang.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 18:01 jurov: you actually tried lynx? as we are speaking, it claims to read 30MB, at 340KiB/sec, and the keeps getting down
shinohai: "TheDAO and HF have already led to a lot of learning, bug fixes, additional research and development of contracts and platform, consensus building, and user education. So the Ethereum platform is already more valuable than before."
shinohai: The logic of these folks.
mircea_popescu: ahaha are these the slock.it imbeciles still trying to dodge the obvious "we suck, and we lied about it, and it blew up in our face, and we destroyed your trust and we will now go die quietly" ?
mircea_popescu: the one thing a true blue american really abhors is any form of responsibility.
shinohai: It's like a colossal shit that won't flush.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-24 21:16 asciilifeform: nor my toilet can accomodate 10,000 shits per day
mircea_popescu: well in fairness - it did flush, which is how it ended up on reddit. you're the one gone plumbing.
trinque: the things my mind indexes
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1505058 << http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-15#923781
a111: Logged on 2014-11-15 15:55 pete_dushenski: "the crews that maintain the nation’s 450 intercontinental ballistic missiles had only a single wrench that could attach the nuclear warheads. “They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 18:18 asciilifeform: i'll admit that i've wondered for a while, what the ft meade version of phuctor looks like.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1505197 << (i was prolly too young to ever properly try it in the wild but fwiw it rang a bell to me multiple times when looking at tmsr discussions, yeah. not that it's time to revive it or anything i guess)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 19:49 asciilifeform: anyone ever tempted to revive gopher ?
a111: Logged on 2014-11-15 15:55 pete_dushenski: "the crews that maintain the nation’s 450 intercontinental ballistic missiles had only a single wrench that could attach the nuclear warheads. “They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country"
mircea_popescu: chet self-diagnosed her rare eyesight condition over gopher at a time medical science was done off paper
Framedragger: not bad at all.
mircea_popescu: mid 90s, the web was a different place then.
mircea_popescu: anyway, iirc it got killed by some derpy university trying to charge people ?
Framedragger: so i hear, hm. including bulletin boards full of phreakers from australia and all that, i suppose
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if that were enough, gif would have died
asciilifeform: it was really killed by 'i want graphical snatch'
mircea_popescu: it did die, hence jpg
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1505268 << realistically i'll prolly end up waiting to see what you come up with, to steal good ideas off of you :) ; meanwhile i'll be scripting something more generic, vaporware-y, and less productive (something something federated e2e encrypted forum thing)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 20:07 trinque: Framedragger: no harm in duplicating effort if it's instructive; go head
mircea_popescu: you could see images via gopher ; i have.
asciilifeform: iirc not inline with text?
mircea_popescu: half the medical papers consisted of scans of photos.
mircea_popescu: no, separate document.
asciilifeform: so then.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: university trying to charge people? interesting.
mircea_popescu: who jacks off to tits INLINE WITH TEXT ?!?!
mircea_popescu: afaik trilema is the ONLY place in the history of englush text that does this.
trinque: Framedragger: sounds like you're headed for a cool billion in vc
Framedragger: i'll be sure to use mongodb, at scale
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: maybe only place having pr0n pics intermixed with latin and greek, say; which is something
mircea_popescu: anyway, one good thing gopher had that's still sorely missed was, you'd query someone's org and get their email.
mircea_popescu: this at a time email was a very different beast also.
Framedragger: yeah i have this stupid nostalgia for things of that kind even though i haven't experienced them myself >.<
mircea_popescu: anyway ; it's not a case of "omg gopher was so great". to get an idea, think "navigate web through excel spreadsheet"
asciilifeform: it was almost a glorified ftp.
mircea_popescu: it was fundamentally flawed, among other things, by a structure externality.
asciilifeform: the reason to remember it is - to recall that html-style 'payload can be anything and arbitrarily grungy' retardation is not the only way.
mircea_popescu: (ie, it relied on you having a mental map of structure which it wouldn't render, or not render well. without it, it was unusable, which is why the illiterate couldn't use it well, didn't like to use it at all, and the "free form" html prevailed)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is the only way if you're going to have people with 0 in common use your thing.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: so as an example of "given [directory/file] structure, allow sane access"
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504951 + http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504952 << ah missed this in logs on first read. for the 2d plot, did you mean ip against moduli for the axes?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:39 asciilifeform: (a mod with 2 or more ips gets a colour; plot each ip on the traditional 2d grid, and connect with line of that colour.)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 17:38 asciilifeform: it would not take long to snarf them up and 2d plot by ip
asciilifeform: i meant this kind,
Framedragger: ah, hilbert curve
asciilifeform: every modulus that turns up at more than 1 addr, gets a colour (which colour? use 4colourmaptheorem)
Framedragger: (i mean that's what it is right?)
asciilifeform: the rest, described earlier.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: aha! hey might as well start with this, sounds good - thanks for the idea
Framedragger: asciilifeform: "connect with line" you meant actually drawing lines to show clusters, right? sorry for slowness - off to bed soon
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 20:42 Framedragger: asciilifeform: "connect with line" you meant actually drawing lines to show clusters, right? sorry for slowness - off to bed soon
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ty, cheers
Framedragger: jurov: elinks loads it fine on ssd but search doesn't work (~works, but notrly). i think i used lynx when looking up stuff on phuctor tho. oh well. :/
shinohai: http://archive.is/RiRfl "We still reserve the right to act against the voting result in case there are security issues identified in the hard fork code or the pool will end up on the non-winning chain".
mircea_popescu: "your buttons are not connected to anything in particular - please push them at will!"
mircea_popescu: and in other homemade spaceship news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/b98c7d3b963b8365c786c382be4f6b25/tumblr_nlmu53Wilr1u25ct8o2_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: actually, nsa is that incompetent, but that's besides the point.
mircea_popescu: the psychopathology around "anonymity" is kinda facinating to watch.
mod6: <+shinohai> It's like a colossal shit that won't flush. << haha
gribble: Current Blocks: 421364 | Current Difficulty: 2.1349250110751337E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 423359 | Next Difficulty In: 1995 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 9 hours, 20 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
deedbot: [Qntra] First Difficulty Adjustment After Halving: Very Slight Increase - http://qntra.net/2016/07/first-difficulty-adjustment-after-halving-very-slight-increase/