Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-05-30 | 2015-06-01 →
decimation: asciilifeform: what confuses me is that the processblock messages absolutely come from a particular node
decimation: but looking at my iptraf monitor, there are several nodes connected at once, and traffic seems to originate from a particular node in a somewhat random way
decimation: so I don't understand how you could identify a particular 'bastard block' message as coming from a particular node without added debug statements
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8782 @ 0.00033296 = 2.9241 BTC [-]
decimation: I added said debug and am gonna watch it overnight
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93600 @ 0.00032681 = 30.5894 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.0003191 = 19.7523 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 260100 @ 0.00031512 = 81.9627 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13650 @ 0.00032246 = 4.4016 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14660 @ 0.00032246 = 4.7273 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up gmaxwell
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00031218 = 25.7549 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111828 @ 0.00031011 = 34.679 BTC [-] {5}
cazalla: winter tmw :\
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41800 @ 0.00030791 = 12.8706 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yep.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 230300 @ 0.00031052 = 71.5128 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: the article misrepresents what's going on. this is quite likely "broken windows" ideology.
mircea_popescu: apparently ny has a major problem with gangs.
cazalla: "According to reports, the NYPD has allegedly issued more than 1,400 summons for manspreading this year"
cazalla: that's some gang
chetty: jeeze next they will arrest folks for taking up too much space cause they are fat ..hmm maybe not such a bad idea :P
mircea_popescu: cazalla nah it's just, as the gulf between society and government widens, the ability of society to maintain social order decays. people start taking it upon themselves to provide for their own security, the most vulnerable groups (foreign language speaking, poor immigrants) overstot, which induces negative reactions in the public,
mircea_popescu: which makes the police become more aggressive which increases the perceived need of the plebs to act tough,
mircea_popescu: which spirals into doom.
mircea_popescu: by now everyone's a gang of one.
cazalla: and the poor bastards just needed a bit of room for their balls
mircea_popescu: which is a sad state of affairs given the history of new york
mircea_popescu: that city exists primarily because of its renowedly incredible ability to diffuse social tension.
cazalla: article mentions the homicide rate is up so that fits
chetty: apparently its up all over the US, more evidence of social breakdown
mircea_popescu: but nobody's going aaaaaaaa! anymore.
mircea_popescu: in other news at 10mn hits / 7mn pages may 2015 stands as trilema's largest month. tananana.
mircea_popescu: << there is a possibility that your daughters may have foond their way by themselves, especially if they be tall dwarvettes.
assbot: Logged on 30-05-2015 23:09:48; funkenstein_: if you was a dwarf i would send thanks by sending my daughters over
mircea_popescu: so take heart of ironwood my friendly lumberjack.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 00:38:16; williamdunne: Anyone got some good reading material to suggest? Novels preferred
cazalla: page 4 on down under google and with that, zzz
mircea_popescu: << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 02:04:22; asciilifeform: (one of my early, unreleased experiments had a disconnector that tripped when we learn that the node we're syncing from is spewing orphans above threshold. perhaps time to bring this back ?)
mircea_popescu: with a time decay, with a penalty for sending bad blocks and a positive for sending good blocks at a good speed.
mircea_popescu: say something like : every bad block received, -10 points. every minute where connection is kept at 80% of its allocated bw or over, 1 point. every hour score decays 1% towards 0, be it either positive or negative.
mircea_popescu: then it could allocate 1/n of its available bandwidth to each available peer, and disconnect peer under a threshold
mircea_popescu: ideally bw_threshold, dc_threshold, bad_block_penalty, per_minute_salary could all be settable via config file.
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone had before a way to "check all the keys i've signed" on one page.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60890 @ 0.00031795 = 19.36 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: can it somehow be structured to serve that purpose ? as a dump it's ok for now because it's short, but by the time the entire db is processed it will be a gb or some shit. maybe make it a list of entries of the format "name fragment", "first 32 characters in base 64'd modulus"
mircea_popescu: where name fragment is a 32 character match across the users textfield
mircea_popescu: << imagine that a windows user managed to pull a disappearing act.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 03:01:54; decimation: it's amusing that satoshi re-implemented MFC classes in his little util.* stuff. he was definitely a winblows VC++ guy
mircea_popescu: << for the record, i suspect these may well be two different items.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 03:03:55; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu this is yet another attribute of the animal we are hunting (the yet-undiscovered diddled pgp client.) almost certainly it shows the claimed fp rather than the actual.
mircea_popescu: << this is a complicated problem, in part because the spec isn't terribru good.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 03:05:20; decimation: imma clearly label the particles of shit in yer wine
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 358801 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 46 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 7 hours, 43 minutes, and 13 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47427773469.2 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.82685
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79653 @ 0.00032505 = 25.8912 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: and the harmonic series has, of course, no closed form solution
mircea_popescu: bloody fucking useless math of this world i swear.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85925 @ 0.00032359 = 27.8045 BTC [-]
fluffypony: oh mircea_popescu you're famouze
fluffypony: and apparently Gavin can't spell your name
fluffypony: "Mirceau Popescue"
mircea_popescu: what's with all the extra vowels people seem to need ? am i too swedish or something ?
fluffypony: Haagen-Popescue
mircea_popescu: hwrothwar hwrothwarsson ?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Any pro tips for while I'm in Bucharest?
mircea_popescu: don't use the scummy people trying to trick tourists into using their "cabs" at the airport ; insist the masseuse actually sucks you off ; avoid street food
williamdunne: Actually on that note, and particularly good places to eat?
mircea_popescu: i could never stand bucharest. i think i spent a total of a week there in my entire life. shittiest town in romania. so i really dunno.
williamdunne: Ah, fair nuff
mircea_popescu: you there on business or what ?
mircea_popescu: then do what i always did, have locals pick
mircea_popescu: it's not that decent and even excellent places don't exist - they certainly do. but romanians are unreliable and southerners are unreliable ^ 2, and so they keep changing.
williamdunne: Kinda looking forward to it, only gonna be there for a few days though.
mircea_popescu: the old town is not so bad.
mircea_popescu: unfortunately, inhabited.
williamdunne: Just did a google, yeah looks like there's some kinda cool architecture there
fluffypony: [16:19:03] <+mircea_popescu>unfortunately, inhabited. <- it's like what I say about America: beautiful country, the biggest problem with it are the Americans
williamdunne: A country of that size can't exactly *not* have beautiful parts
mircea_popescu: plebs infesting the world are the biggest problem everywhere pretty much, except china
mircea_popescu: and even in china / se asia it's becoming an issue
williamdunne: "Damn Scotts, they ruin Scottland"
mircea_popescu: williamdunne sure, go to brasov :)
mircea_popescu: fluffypony how about south africa ?
fluffypony: so much space that you don't have to run into anyone :-P
mircea_popescu: lol right.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I'll see if I can. If I can convince someone to bugger off with me for the day I will, but only there for a few days :/
williamdunne sees horde of 70,000 tourists preparing to descend upon fluffypony
mircea_popescu: williamdunne only about 100 miles or so, shouldb't be more than a coupla hours.
mircea_popescu: and you get to cross the mointains
williamdunne: Guessing there's a train or summin?
williamdunne: If I do get there, anything in particular I should be doing?
mircea_popescu: in brasov ?
mircea_popescu: well check out piata sfatului, maybe go on the skylift thing
mircea_popescu: sinaia (the old royal winter residence) is also nearby
williamdunne: Sounds good to me, see if I can get that done the day before Prague
williamdunne: More ponzi fail:
williamdunne: Guessing is against the blocksize increase
asciilifeform: << not an accurate picture of what it is. what we have is a list of keys that share one or more public modulus. nothing to do with signatures
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 12:18:33; mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone had before a way to "check all the keys i've signed" on one page.
mircea_popescu: so how come jurov and old mpex keys are in there ?
mircea_popescu: i assumed it was because he had signed them ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: old mpex is an easy one - not all of the moduli changed
asciilifeform: (recall, there is no 'changing' on sks, only repeat upload)
asciilifeform: as for jurov's - i have no idea
mircea_popescu: this is fairly odd
mircea_popescu: !up btcdrak
asciilifeform: i thought of adding a download link on individual key pages, but then folks will be tempted to use phuctor as a key server
asciilifeform: which is a microscope-hammer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0003275 = 1.965 BTC [+]
asciilifeform presently contemplating the fact that sks appears to contain virtually no gurlz
asciilifeform: numerically, use of pgp is 'manlier' than drilling for oil...
thestringpuller: wake up this morning and all I see in my BTC feed is derps talkinga bout hard-fork?!?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what if instead you found them speaking of sex with pigs? would it then also be a matter of interest ?
thestringpuller: Then I would think I was legit in the twilight zone if i saw headlines like "Prime Minister of UK to have intercourse with female pig."
asciilifeform: male pig is sop in britain ?
jurov: i have no idea why my keys are listed there, too. i have extended the expiration date of D0AEE7D7 few times, then removed expiration completely.
asciilifeform: jurov: recall that nothing is ever removed from sks.
jurov: but periodical prolonging is normal course of events, even recommended to newbs, there should be many more such keys
jurov: now, how one checks that: "Please make sure these are yours" ?
asciilifeform: jurov: i think what mircea_popescu was asking was - how a mircea_popescu modulus ended up in a jurov key
jurov: i'm slow on uptake today.. exactly which keys share the moduli? and how can EDDF63E share more than 2 moduli with other keys?
jurov: can anyone pls explain what is shown on ?
williamdunne: thestringpuller: Funnily enough, half of the derps in the derp list are d.somethings
joecool: jurov: i think it's keys with multiple uid's?
jurov: joecool: what do you mean_
joecool: well i don't see any in there so far without a second uid on the keyserver
joecool: oh nevermind i see what it is
jurov: for example what exactly is 8C70D661E98EDAEABBA1064A5CC7C91AF270720114DAF220E1CB12334EDDF63E ????
asciilifeform: joecool: keys with multiple uid's? << no
joecool: asciilifeform: yeah i realized not now, i should have looked closer before answering
asciilifeform: jurov: lists me, mircea and bunch of unrelated people << unfortunately i have not the faintest clue who created this key and why.
asciilifeform: as far as i can see, it is harmless
asciilifeform: but why does it exist? i do not know.
jurov: how is it possible to create such key so that it has my factor in?
asciilifeform: jurov: nothing was factored
asciilifeform: jurov: but i can take any set of moduli and shoehorn them into a valid key, sure
asciilifeform: the basic unit of pgptronics is the public modulus / exponent set, rather than 'key' - which is a fairly arbitrary collection thereof
asciilifeform: jurov: now, how one checks that: "Please make sure these are yours" ? << i suppose this is when i explain -why- i wrote the 'dupes' feature to begin with.
asciilifeform: the idea of phuctor is to detect duplicate privatekey material in use anywhere. the reuse of one particular divisor is only one possible scenario - it is also possible that a very ham-handedly sabotaged pgptron somewhere reuses a whole pair of factors - that is, two or more strangers may, somewhere, share an entire private key.
asciilifeform: because said key was hardcoded in, or some schmuck had his seldom-used privkey substituted under his nose, or whatnot.
asciilifeform: hence 'make sure these are yours'
asciilifeform: if someone can suggest a better phrasing for this, please write in.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu paused pump, resumed werker. we have around 1/4 of the total rsa keys available submitted (or processed) at this point.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu << mega-l0l! wasn't this fella a chum of yours at one point? give him a thrashing ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: asciilifeform: no i meant how do i check someone used my whole moduli vs. someone actually has one or both factors?
asciilifeform: jurov: if someone has one factor, you would end up in
asciilifeform: jurov: if someone is using both, you will end up in - even though most dupes are harmless
jurov: ok, thanks for explanation. i have not realized the difference between moduli and factors
asciilifeform: beyond this, it helps to review how rsa works.
jurov: yes, but gpg keys are not pure rsa
asciilifeform: jurov: phuctor deals -only- with rsa moduli.
asciilifeform: (key containing no rsa moduli will not be stored or processed)
jurov: i mean there can be multiple rsa keys in one gpg key, no?
jurov: like EDDF63E ... and looks like it was submitted to phuctor directly, i can't find it on sks keyserver
jurov: is the original submission for EDDF63E available somewhere?
asciilifeform: jurov: i suppose i will have to implement 'download key' button after all...
asciilifeform: jurov: if you give me a permalink, i will pull it out of the db for you
jurov: tyvm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72443 @ 0.00032383 = 23.4592 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91200 @ 0.0003286 = 29.9683 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: << merit washing plus "social science" leads to lulz in short order
asciilifeform: 'It’s the sort of brazen data fraud you just don’t see that often, especially in a journal like Science.' << this particular item from the gobbelsism toolbox needs a name
asciilifeform: *goebbels
asciilifeform: sorta like the very occasional corrupt dogcatcher they shoot in china
asciilifeform: 'see, the crown cares! the rare irregularities are dealt with! watch this impalement and move along now'
asciilifeform: 'This was a graduate student who successfully ran the gauntlet of the Princeton interview process with a publicly posted CV that contained wild falsehoods about his grant receipts ... ' << this is sorta like counterfeiting usd. when the counterfeiter-in-chief cranks up the press and doubles the toiletpaper in circulation, that is blessed by the crown. when some schmuck ? headzoff
asciilifeform: '“My puzzlement now is, if he fabricated the data, surely he must have known that when people tried to replicate his study, they would fail to do so and the truth would come out,”' << l0l re: the obvious 'fnord' here
asciilifeform: as if any of these gasbags ever seriously replicate anything
mod6: Update: full sync of v0.5.3.1-RELEASE + patche(s) { Orphanage Thermonuke } + { TX Orphanage Amputation } is up to block: 280995
asciilifeform: mod6: neato
mod6: meanwhile, I'm nearly there with this gentoo install on this pos box. i did something funky i think, at the end of lastnight grub was screwed up. need to figure that out.
asciilifeform: 'the fraud could have been uncovered sooner, potentially forestalling a great deal of the disruption it inflicted on various careers and on social science as a whole.' << mega-l0l! as if any of the 'careers' built upon this or similar crocks of shit - other than the exemplary scapegoat's - will skip so much as one beat
mod6: ah, up to 20 moduli broken now 'eh
mod6: ah, and my key was re-tested
mod6: ok, i see you fired up the werker, stopped the pump
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh, whatever, random derp trying to sell books or whatever by "being controversial"
mircea_popescu: not worth the time
mircea_popescu: << the particular example in question just looks like an older mpex key somehow related to the various people who signed it.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 16:48:57; asciilifeform: the idea of phuctor is to detect duplicate privatekey material in use anywhere. the reuse of one particular divisor is only one possible scenario - it is also possible that a very ham-handedly sabotaged pgptron somewhere reuses a whole pair of factors - that is, two or more strangers may, somewhere, share an entire private key.
mircea_popescu: << special interest politics, from gay to womens to minorities to what have you is fraud, run on ambition, high hopes and bad numbers. i am so shocked i think ima become a vegetarian nao.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 18:16:50; ben_vulpes: << merit washing plus "social science" leads to lulz in short order
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again, signing a key - on ordinary gpg - does not throw your whole modulus in it
asciilifeform: not on any pgptron i've ever used
asciilifeform: but this might be configurable.
decimation: asciilifeform: as an example, I have 131 'BASTARDS' between two accepts
decimation: from multiple nodes
mircea_popescu: yeah its weird
decimation: < dpaste of the debug.log between two 'ACCEPT' blocks
decimation: I added the ip of the node that was passed when ProccesBlock was called
asciilifeform: decimation: this is normal in my experience
asciilifeform: (incidentally, a while ago i posted a patch that kills log rollover. might be of interest to some of you)
asciilifeform: ^ makes it possible to preserve debug output from zero to synced in its entirety
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> yeah its weird << nothing weird about it. the sync mechanism is braindamaged more or less as far as it is even possible to be braindamaged.
asciilifeform: and has no abort on the sending end
asciilifeform: so when peer starts crapping out bastards, it won't stop until finished or disconnected
asciilifeform: read the source (TM)
jurov: << there is already tracking of misbehaving nodes, can't that be plugged in?
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 02:04:22; asciilifeform: (one of my early, unreleased experiments had a disconnector that tripped when we learn that the node we're syncing from is spewing orphans above threshold. perhaps time to bring this back ?)
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I'm trying to crawl my way through it. are these nodes actually hostile or do they just not have the full blockchain?
decimation: jurov: there is definitely tracking of when a node was 'last heard'. what misbehvior are you talking about?
jurov: "misbehaving peers"
decimation: jurov: yeah it does seem that there is some tracking of orphan spamming nodes
decimation: but I'm not sure if those checks actually are effective in the bastards case, gonna need to read more code
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86254 @ 0.00031667 = 27.3141 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: lol < apparently now there's a 'facebook' for economists to 'like' ideas or not
decimation: Question A:
decimation: If the US replaced its discretionary monetary policy regime with a gold standard, defining a "dollar" as a specific number of ounces of gold, the price-stability and employment outcomes would be better for the average American.
decimation: William Nordhaus of Yale: '10 strong disagree' This proposal makes no sense in the modern world. Just look at the Eurozone to see the consequences.
decimation: Anil Kashyap of U. Chicago '10 strong disagree' A gold standard regime would be a disaster for any large advanced economy. Love of the G.S. implies macroeconomic illiteracy.
decimation: if you want to see academic 'tardation in its glory, this is the place to go
williamdunne: Deflation is bad because why buy a sandwich today when you can buy two in 30 years
Adlai plays devil's advocate; or rather, s/evil/avout/
Adlai: if we're gonna have live trades, why not add paymium?
jurov: heh. +1
asciilifeform: << i tried various values of 'misbehave' increment per orphan block - 20, 50, even 100. in my tests, this made sync... slower. reason, as i understand, was that 1) you lose time renegotiating connection 2) overwhelmingly likely that any node you reconnect to -also- shits just as many orphans.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 19:49:44; jurov: << there is already tracking of misbehaving nodes, can't that be plugged in?
asciilifeform: err, bastards
asciilifeform: i have come to the conclusion that the -only possible- non-retarded solution to bastard blocks -when we can only adjust our end- is to throw them into the sun.
asciilifeform: ditto for orphan tx
asciilifeform: let's rewrite it as a maxim:
asciilifeform: if it cannot be immediately validated, DON'T STORE IT!
asciilifeform: not hard.
asciilifeform: i don't even apprehend why this 'jam tomorrow' nonsense was even in there in the first place.
jurov: premature optimization, i guess
Adlai: premature hyberbitcoinization is the root of all bubbles
asciilifeform: it was 'optimization' strictly in the sense that shitting into your pants is optimization over looking for toilet
Adlai: it's ok, you start looking for a toilet after 750 nuggets
Adlai: it's a compromise
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
danielpbarron: !up on247
williamdunne: jurov: Have you seen Its kinda like the server hosting thing you were looking at
jurov: williamdunne: yes i knew about it. but, what do you think "victim of its own success" mean? :DDD
midnightmagic: A 100% freshly-installed, default-settings server in France was owned virtually immediately. support didn't answer the reinstall ticket for a month. If has been successful, then success probably caused them to start sucking.
midnightmagic: There also doesn't seem to be any ways to use keys without passwords, or set up new servers without email.
williamdunne: jurov: Out of stock, too many people bought that cheap 6 euro dedicated server
williamdunne: midnightmagic: To use keys?
jurov: I personally got only an offer to share a rack with 4x100MBit(can be upgraded to giga) and 4xIPv4 for 500 euro/mo
williamdunne: Yeah its definitely not a perfect in every way, but looks pretty good
williamdunne: jurov: Wow, I can get you better than that. Thats pretty pathetic
midnightmagic: williamdunne: We are forced to use a TLS channel to order product from them. We should be able to spin up a fresh server using that interface solely, and ssh keys entered via it.
williamdunne: What sort of density can you achieve?
williamdunne: i.e using the cheap blades how many servers can you fit per maybe 48us?
williamdunne: midnightmagic: SSH would be preferable, but how important is it really?
midnightmagic: Important enough when the alternative is an emailed rootpass. :(
williamdunne: Can't you just change it as soon as you connect
jurov: williamdunne: pwned immediately, see above
midnightmagic: williamdunne: If you're quick enough, I suppose. Also, this is presuming the host itself isn't in some fashion pwned, since who knows how it was actually compromised considering the physical drives are unavailable for examination.
danielpbarron: !up shesek
danielpbarron: >> At this time, I oppose increasing the block size limit as per Gavin's proposal.
ben_vulpes: hola shesek
danielpbarron: !up Lk4_DPB
Lk4_DPB: danielpbarron: obliged
danielpbarron: sure; who are you?
ben_vulpes: !up Lk4_DPB
Adlai: !s dpb from:ascii*
assbot: 0 results for 'dpb from:ascii*' :
ben_vulpes: what brings you by, Lk4_DPB ?
Lk4_DPB: i was at some event in milano and they talked about assets as a the place that knoews best about bitcoin adn that discovered a probem with rsa keys
Adlai: the keys are fine, the servers are fucked
Lk4_DPB: the servers accept any key is the problem?
assbot: Logged on 08-05-2015 01:17:36; ben_vulpes: look danielpbarron there's a function in common lisp named for you!
Adlai: ben_vulpes: "aha"
Adlai: s/"/'/g
Adlai: Lk4_DPB: doubtful, it's more likely the dud keys were placed there intentionally
Lk4_DPB: by dud or someone else?
Adlai: "by dud"?
Lk4_DPB: by the owner or someone else?
Adlai: why would key owners distribute bad versions of their own keys?
Adlai: although i guess it could be an experiment, and the experimenters wanted to only diddle their own keys, to minimize collateral damage
Lk4_DPB: i would not know, perhaps it was not a smart question
Adlai: there are no stupid questions, only stupid people
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 358878 | Current Difficulty: 4.758959115362501E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 360863 | Next Difficulty In: 1985 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 56719622139.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 19.18493
mircea_popescu: somebody should write a better estimator sometime.
midnightmagic: nanotube accepts patches pretty solicitously :)
mircea_popescu: it's a complicated problem tho.
mircea_popescu: << i was talking about the mixed moduli situation yo.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 19:47:00; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> yeah its weird << nothing weird about it. the sync mechanism is braindamaged more or less as far as it is even possible to be braindamaged.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 12:11:09; mircea_popescu: << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes.
mircea_popescu: << notwithstanding that the dudes in question are probably illiterate, gold standard does in fact not work for a large array or reasons. this exercise is not unlike an attempt to deride qm on the grounds that the various twerps making money out of govt grants in physics academia could not explain it.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 20:42:43; decimation: if you want to see academic 'tardation in its glory, this is the place to go
mircea_popescu: and gold standard != deflation for the record. not anymore than diarrhea = transpiration
mircea_popescu: << the latter point is correct, for now. but, much like us being here makes live marginally harder for now, yet the presence of punishment for idiots provides them an incentive to either get killed or get fixed, just so putting that in there pre-pogo provides an avenue for the network to purge itself of idiocy.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 21:23:54; asciilifeform: << i tried various values of 'misbehave' increment per orphan block - 20, 50, even 100. in my tests, this made sync... slower. reason, as i understand, was that 1) you lose time renegotiating connection 2) overwhelmingly likely that any node you reconnect to -also- shits just as many orphans.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which idiocy ?
BingoBoingo: orphan shitters
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: our isn't any more clever on the transmitter end!
mircea_popescu: in the case of the blockchain, the existence of nodes that pump out bad info.
mircea_popescu: in the case of the world, the existence of people that pump out stupidity.
asciilifeform: it is 'bad' from standpoint of node which doesn't have the antecedents, yes
mircea_popescu: biology works in this manner alf.
asciilifeform: but this reflects the lack of a reasonable 'gossip' mechanism - on both ends
mircea_popescu: "it's bad from my pov so fuck you."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 149979 @ 0.00031638 = 47.4504 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha but here there isn't a 'me' and 'you' yet
mircea_popescu: not yet, no.
asciilifeform: there would just be folks shooting selves in the feet
mircea_popescu: how else do you think me and you is born ?
asciilifeform: once we have a reasonable 'embrace and extend' of sync mechanism - then yes
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing "This by itself and right now"
mircea_popescu: im not gavinue aendreaessaen
mircea_popescu: or w/e you spell it.
ben_vulpes: genuinely asinine
mircea_popescu: that's a point.
Adlai: !s gribble source
assbot: 898 results for 'gribble source' :
Adlai: !s patch gribble OR nanotube
assbot: 18385 results for 'patch gribble OR nanotube' :
Adlai: fuck
mircea_popescu: what are you trying to do ?
asciilifeform: anyway, for all who want, replace 'return true;' in 'if' block where begins with printf("ProcessBlock: BASTARD... with 'if (pfrom) pfrom->Misbehaving(whateverconstant)'
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 23:32:24; midnightmagic: nanotube accepts patches pretty solicitously :)
mircea_popescu: << you have to appreciate the situation at the time. not that many nodes alive or expected, and a certain desperation to "make it work".
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 21:27:33; asciilifeform: i don't even apprehend why this 'jam tomorrow' nonsense was even in there in the first place.
mircea_popescu: and someone coding in windows and without much of a clue about programming as a theoretical discipline.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: granted, but 'don't let strangers throw ten pounds of shit each into your five-pound bag' is not higher mathematics ...?
mircea_popescu: Adlai are you looking for his github ? same name.
Adlai: nonsense, satoshi had every clue about proper code, but he didn't want to make it too easy
Adlai: gotta leave something to work for
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the time the 4096 ounce bag should have been enough for everyone.
mircea_popescu: << that is always and without exception the sign of a vps being sold as fake "dedicated"
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 22:53:20; midnightmagic: williamdunne: If you're quick enough, I suppose. Also, this is presuming the host itself isn't in some fashion pwned, since who knows how it was actually compromised considering the physical drives are unavailable for examination.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85500 @ 0.00032489 = 27.7781 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: y'know, it isn't hard to test for all known types of virtualizer from inside
asciilifeform: turdware artists do it sop.
mircea_popescu: Adlai yes.
mircea_popescu: you could have asked THAT , it's not uknown.
Adlai found that in the gribble source, didn't realize it was just parotting a value from elsewhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59750 @ 0.00032857 = 19.6321 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: rewriting the block explorer now, Adlai ?
Adlai: nope. nope nope nope
Adlai has already (defun-json-rpc bitcoind.rpc ..)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.0003293 = 12.003 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for?
ben_vulpes: trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world
Adlai: who needs documentation when you have live support
BingoBoingo: Oh found internet fiction
Adlai got had at moo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00031613 = 2.4026 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00031125 = 6.3495 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22126 @ 0.00031125 = 6.8867 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00030903 = 1.1434 BTC [-]
decimation: re: gold standard doesn't work < yeah this might be the case, but nearly all of the criticisms offered would apply equally to bitcoin
decimation: asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be to make an irc/gossip/udp net that requires proof of wot membership to join
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21425 @ 0.00031002 = 6.6422 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00030874 = 11.0838 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00031006 = 6.7283 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for? << extremely bad question. is a boeing worth paying for? depends!
Adlai: i've heard they're great for hammering in nails
asciilifeform: Adlai: nah, that's microscopes
Adlai: you aren't dreaming big enough
asciilifeform dreams big: of hammering with -electron- microscopes !
asciilifeform: decimation: asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be ... this is still reasoning from the misconception that 'bastards' necessarily come from malicious or malfunctioning nodes. this is not the case - a 0.5.3.x will emit bastards - from point of view of certain nodes - just as often as any other
Adlai: both are too heavy to wield manually but electron microscopes, unlike the boeing, lack self-propulsion
asciilifeform: it is a consequence of how screamingly retarded the sync mechanism is to begin with
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21217 @ 0.00031018 = 6.5811 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: forgive my ignorance, but there's a single valid path through the blockchain
decimation: why does every node need to reverify it?
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world << i never had lispworks and can't comment about it, but franz 'allegro' does come with clim. iirc it only works in the non-smp version though, and depends on gtk
asciilifeform: lispworks is actually (afaik to this day) the maintainer of the online cl hyperspec! while documentation from franz was once superb - came in printed volumes, which i bought second-hand
asciilifeform: but afaik they no longer ship the dead tree
asciilifeform: decimation: if you didn't verify the entire blockchain from end to end, you aren't a node!
asciilifeform: but a gavinabortion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00030846 = 5.4289 BTC [-]
decimation: yeah, but there's a difference between "here's our history; you verify" and "pls to give transactions"
asciilifeform: mod6: neato
asciilifeform: decimation: in both cases, 'martian' - that is to say, unverifiable with info at hand - blocks (or transactions) are indistinguishable from garbage at time of receipt
mod6: thx ascii, :]
asciilifeform: mod6: i would comment that technically the block-bastardage and tx-orphanage nukes are semantically independent. but the latter was derived from a main.cpp patched with the former.
asciilifeform: so the statement in the report - holds.
asciilifeform: mod6: the igprof thing was its own patch
asciilifeform: (it works without the patch but you can't take runtime heap snapshots then)
asciilifeform: oh perhaps i should mention that i tested the db memory thing
asciilifeform: our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max
asciilifeform: there is a cache cap option. setting it did precisely nothing.
mod6: I should have put in a line maybe about "encouraged to read the submitted emails" or something, but perhaps I just thought it was implied.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max << OH. ok did not realize that. damn. well, i'll mention this fact in next months letter. should hvae asked.
asciilifeform: not 100% certain that we're all using same bdb...
decimation: asciilifeform: I'm using the build
mod6: well, if one starts with the v0.5.3.1-RELEASE built with, then BDB 4.8.30 will be built with it.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> not 100% certain that we're all using same bdb... << but anyway, yeah, I'll check anyway. there is a chance that we could be looking at two seperate versions.
asciilifeform: see db-4.8.30/dbinc/
asciilifeform: for what is and isn't on the gameboard.
decimation: no set_memory_max on my version
mod6: yeah, its not in there.
asciilifeform: anyway none of my tests lay blame on bdb for continuous memory-eating
asciilifeform: just has the appearance of something one could perhaps shave a MB or two off, total.
decimation: asciilifeform: I see lots of std::vector and associated bs in your igprof stuff
asciilifeform: on the other hand, it -is- a candidate for the possible hidey-hole of the 'phantom' ram
asciilifeform: decimation: likely, boost internal crapolade
decimation: do you think it's possible that C++ is 'helpfully' holding on to allocated memory?
asciilifeform: decimation: when formally freed ? that'd be a gcc bug
asciilifeform: and/or glibc
asciilifeform: not impossible, but 'first rule out the usual suspects, then - miracles'
decimation: I guess I'm saying: did satoshi fail to clean up clutter as he went along?
asciilifeform: decimation: thing is, we no longer have classical leakage
asciilifeform: as in, memory --> +inf as t --> +inf
decimation: right. and one thing that infuriates me about std::vector - for instance - is that it's not exactly clear when free() is gonna be called
asciilifeform: this is one of the reasons why i - in all seriousness - believe c++ to be one of the 20th century's greatest crimes against the future.
decimation: stroustrup gonna be dug up and hung in effigy?
Adlai: !s fqa
assbot: 0 results for 'fqa' :
asciilifeform: why effigy?
asciilifeform: bastard's alive !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22550 @ 0.00030846 = 6.9558 BTC [-]
decimation: yeah but folks don't realize the crime yet, apparently
asciilifeform: at any rate, it'd be harmless crackpottery without microshit
asciilifeform: the real enabler
asciilifeform: (notice, incidentally, that cpp is virtually unused outside the microturd world ?)
decimation: heh yeah when reading that bastards section I ran into "CCriticalSection" stuff - which apparently all came from mfc shit
decimation: satoshi reimplemented
asciilifeform: imho one of the most perplexing things about 'anti-bitcoin' agitators is how they all - to a man - miss the most cogent argument against bitcoin: it being, how it is implemented
asciilifeform: out of duct tape and chewing gum, and, to add insult to injury, cannot really be rebuilt
decimation: well, because what do they have? excel?
asciilifeform: (see old mircea_popescu thread re: proof)
asciilifeform: there -exists- software not crafted out of duct tape and gum
asciilifeform: most folks have had some (albeit unconscious) encounters with it - riding airplanes, etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56815 @ 0.00030835 = 17.5189 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: it could be rebuilt, but not without the resources of a rich prince
decimation: certainly not by hobbyists
asciilifeform: wake me up when there exists anything other than hobbyists in the space.
decimation: what ever came of that startup that is re-writing bitcoin in go or whatever
assbot: Logged on 11-05-2015 20:00:50; mircea_popescu: "TLDR I ran afl-fuzz against libbitcoinconsensus to discover interesting Bitcoin scripts and used them to search for Bitcoin reimplementations vulnerable to forking. This discovered two bugs in btcd by Conformal. See the bitcoinconsensus_testcases repository for the discovered Bitcoin scripts."
asciilifeform: the other basic observation is that bitcoin per se feeds no one
asciilifeform: and that no one ought to be surprised by this
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:48; mircea_popescu: the idea here being that people wouldn't pay for a sane os for the same reason they won't payfor the sun.
asciilifeform: (buncha derps get fed by usg for pretending to operate in bitcoin; very different affair)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35989 @ 0.00030647 = 11.0295 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:59:41; mircea_popescu: people do buy chemicals, but they don't buy "chemistry"
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:59:49; mircea_popescu: if th efield had needed such a thing, it wouldn't exist at all.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah it's true that 'selling os' is a terrible business
asciilifeform: no one will ever make a living, much less get rich, selling the sun.
asciilifeform: why the hell would anyone pay anyone to, e.g., kill mosquitoes, when 'deadheads' who paid nothing still get the 'product' (avoiding bites) ?
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
decimation: some people like to live in a civilized place, as opposed to barbarous
asciilifeform: this only goes so far
thestringpuller: anyone see anything about this project vault by google?
thestringpuller: suspiciously similar to cardano
asciilifeform: can't wait for the usg cardano.
asciilifeform: (anyone recall 'clipper' ?)
Vexual: fast ship?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i'm seeing a microsd single-chip turd
asciilifeform: 'It also has an NFC chip and an antenna (for proving that you are in control and that it’s correctly authorized).' l0l!!!
asciilifeform: auditability? what's that.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: yea pretty much usg cardano, just didn't know if it had been discussed. now it has.
asciilifeform: for young people >> << the original usg cardano.
asciilifeform: the first time around, they made the mistake of being honest about the intentions of backdooring
asciilifeform: << not formally retracted as usg proclamation until 2015 !
decimation: asciilifeform: note that usg doesn't really need to be 'good', it's just that there's no credible alternative
asciilifeform: onetimepad with goose quill pens and dice is still more credible alternative than anything out of usg & co.
Vexual: elegant
Vexual: none of this shoehorn a shit onto your shit
Vexual: so you might tread thru shit
asciilifeform: at any rate, google is ripping off folks like and the two or three similar items discussed in previous logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.0003118 = 1.5902 BTC [+]
Vexual: i assumed vault was just a word that presumed they were better than apple at storing nudes, so i didnt look
Vexual: what is it?
mircea_popescu: <Adlai> who needs documentation when you have live support << what's this, camwhoring for geeks ?
asciilifeform: Vexual: sd card with single-chip 'crypto coprocessor' (a la the atmel turd discussed a few months ago; possibly even the very same) - with extra holy water and marketing drivel included
Adlai: pretty much
Adlai: shellwhoring
asciilifeform: thestringpuller, decimation: whether snowden & co. started out as psyop or not, fact is that at this point it is 100% a marketing machine for 'vaults' and 'redpNohes' of a thousand and one kinds
Vexual: sd card is the only hole on a google netbook?
asciilifeform: Vexual: the only (usable) hole in a google pNohe
asciilifeform: hence the form factor.
Vexual: ah
asciilifeform: regardless of what kind of pig you might own, the hucksters will gladly sell you fourteen varieties of s333k0000r1ty!!!11 lipstick for it.
mircea_popescu: country of fat stupid people with government issued money. of course everything will end up marketing.
mircea_popescu: the entire french language is, in the us, a sort of marketing ploy.
decimation: heh yeah that's true
asciilifeform picks up phone, calls airline, asks to buy ticket to country where they have thin smart people with non-governmental money
mircea_popescu: used to be russia, amusingly enough
asciilifeform: afaik they still have the 'thin' working
danielpbarron: ;;later tell Luke-Jr hey look it's that game you like to play! ->
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90856 @ 0.0003196 = 29.0376 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha wait, there's derps actually writing on tardstalk like all seriously and naively and whatnot ?
mircea_popescu: jesus the internet's a riot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40750 @ 0.0003293 = 13.419 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46610 @ 0.00032626 = 15.207 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: << /me greps for ben_vulpes in there, finds entry in title
assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 02:28:46; mod6: << The State of Bitcoin Address
mircea_popescu: whatcher doin' these days yo ?
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