Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-07-31 | 2022-08-25 → ↓
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011276 << asciilifeform not expects that, even if over9000 folx take up pestism, that they'd live here (why?)
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011307 << what's wrong with e.g. pgpgram in blog comment ?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 14:22:22 awt: Who should be on pestnet?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 15:27:53 billymg: speaking for myself, i've been quiet lately because i don't have anything new or relevant to discuss. been mostly focused on irl endeavors and distractions
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011317 << imho this is the way to do it -- guest door
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011335 << 'multichan' is already there -- erry net is 'channel'
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 16:08:22 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: Point was, in that instance of dulapnet shutting down, how many would reach out to ascii for a peering key over email?
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011355 << main win of pestronics is 'defense' against '1 d00d ran box and then he ran outta juice and rip and nao where connect'. errything else secondary atm
PeterL[asciilifeform]: oh hi asciilifeform, good to see you got it connected
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 16:35:53 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: phf: possibly in order before toilet would be multichan support
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011362 << piece of soft aint aboutta stave off ragnarok, noose at 11
shinohai[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-23#1011435 << I'm a dark-mode maximalist, but nice that yer logger has the option. I have tampermonkey script for gui browser that darkens other stuff, but not necessary with your logotron.
PeterL[asciilifeform]: I've gotten a pgp-gram in a blog comment, was a good way to get me a message
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 16:58:38 billymg: signpost: valid point. first and foremost i see pest as defensible territory designed to keep out heathens and agent provocateurs
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 17:12:42 signpost: doesn't see *any* human who can prevent that crash. not presidents, not anyone assembled here.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011378 << to date asciilifeform not impressed with any of the supposedly 'sane' 'deplatformed folx' (wai were 'platformed' to start with?)
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 18:06:25 signpost: "sane" people are deplatformed every day. once this thing's a viable alternative it oughta be aggressively promoted to those folks, who then bring their horde of normies.
PeterL[asciilifeform]: at this point we can say pest has succesfully replaced Freenode
asciilifeform: PeterL: orig. notion was, recall, entirely modest 'in #a rack people report outage, but how to do so if it lives in selfsame rack'
billymg[asciilifeform]: !c trb-status
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011379 << moar or less ideal for warez, yes (p2p warez fwiw aint some kinda new breakthrough, but historically direly missing a wot footing)
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 18:07:35 signpost: it's why I like the warez idea; it tidily bundles together what one needs for decentralized publishing of w/e.
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-22#1113295 << the point is not "ascii man bad": you've been answering threads in #a and generally using it as your primary communication platform, a behavior that _necessarily_ contributes to de-emphasis of pestnet, whether or not there are good reasons for it
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-22#1113248 << i came to view this behavior as particularly kind of displacement activity. it's a combination of one of the later threads between diana and mp on malleability of computer artifacts and an old copypasta from “ivan chesnokov” about ak-47
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $24759.37
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-12 asciilifeform: apologizes to folx on pestnet for delay in replies; asciilifeform not uncrated pestron yet, on acct of several simultaenous (albeit uninteresting to audience) clusterfucks
shinohai[asciilifeform]: I view that as a challenge I'm willing to accept.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-13 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-12#1011162 << cut a small piece from end when buying, see that it's actually cu (rather than cu-plated al). and that the shields actually there.
billymg[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-13#1113126 << ty. i'll have to wait until it gets here to verify but armed with this information i was able to search the reviews and found one claiming to have done this check
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: er was a getdata, I'm not sure what's happened here
shinohai[asciilifeform]: Dunno all looks normal here.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform] hopefully reduced BA spam
shinohai[asciilifeform]: $ticker btc usd
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $24693.93
shinohai[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Buenos dias #pest, un cafecito [~]D
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $25142.11
awt[asciilifeform]: $ticker btc usd
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $24221.67
trbexplorer[asciilifeform]: mins_since_last_block: 48
awt[asciilifeform]: whaack: cool gif!
signpost[asciilifeform]: PeterL: I deleted the WIP genesis. latest is linked from the poast, can be found here http://trinque.org/src/ocpy/
signpost[asciilifeform]: that one's final genesis for the py impl
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Would be nice to have something in the pest spec for file storage and retrieval
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $23423.74
jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: billymg: ur site 500's here (at this moment anyway. page23 works) http://bitdash.io/nodes/?status=any&returned_peers=&user_agent=any&page=24
busybot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $21406.19
awt[asciilifeform]: signpost: according to the logs seems like it's not possible to change the nick deedbot has associated with my key. Still true?
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-19#1113183 << i'm porting my code to genera, and truncated sha512 would've simplified things for me (well, it's still plenty of work, relatively a drop in the bucket)
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-19 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: not obviously bad idea, but prolly not worth breaking compat for. asciilifeform would like to see evidence of 'faster' tho.
awt[asciilifeform]: $ticker btc usd
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $21269.49
signpost[asciilifeform]: np, just sign a message with the same key requesting the name change.
awt[asciilifeform]: Currently working on address cast - packets within packets within packets
signpost[asciilifeform]: phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-20#1011250 << what's your sense of the stature of Dugin in Russia?
PeterL[asciilifeform]: awt: the one thing IRC has is that you don't need to talk to anybody to exchange keys, you just point your client at asciilife
PeterL[asciilifeform]: I wonder, if he turned off duplapnet, how many there would show up here?
PeterL[asciilifeform]: can you expand "dogfooding" ?
billymg[asciilifeform]: speaking for myself, i've been quiet lately because i don't have anything new or relevant to discuss. been mostly focused on irl endeavors and distractions
billymg[asciilifeform]: agree 100% that those with pest clients already running should be 'dogfooding' it
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 15:21:08 PeterL: I wonder, if he turned off duplapnet, how many there would show up here?
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: st interests to change that.
PeterL[asciilifeform]: I've pretty much completely moved to #pest, not that I have ever been a very high volume user
billymg[asciilifeform]: phf: tbf, activity on #a has also been at a minimum during the same time period
billymg[asciilifeform]: and it does seem like a handful of users have switched more or less completely over to #pest
awt[asciilifeform]: For me, the old forum (#bitcon-assets -> #trilema) was of interest as a constant stream of new concepts and revisionist history, fueled largely by trilema and loper-os articles.
phf[asciilifeform]: billymg, there's a slump, but there's also definitely bifurcation. occassional drive by comment, or a vex stream, or some "hello, i'm still alive" ping will go to either, and necessarily splits the attention
awt[asciilifeform]: And I hoped pestnet could be a place where discussion could continue uncensored. Though really #trilema and #bitcoin-assets was never censored.
phf[asciilifeform]: but also there's been plenty of conversation on how to potentially establish a toilet station, where all hearsay is artificial, and instead of coming from other stations is actually just web interface or whatever
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform] has be under this impression since first peered, infact only dc'd ~2 people in the entirety of time in #a and #p and not without permission first
phf[asciilifeform]: so if you want to hear vex rants peer with webtoilet station or whatever
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: phf: possibly in order before toilet would be multichan support
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011265 << makes sense, ty for the explanation. it seemed to me that someone was reaching for whomever they could hit, and apparently missed even that.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 12:28:44 phf[awt]: the idea that he's some kind of idealogue of putin's regime is laughable, and he makes no sense as a target of assassination attempt
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: crtdaydreams, sure, but also why. not like you'll have a sudden influx of people dying to have a conversation with us. it'll be the same usual suspects, adlai and vex, and maybe bb and other people who might resurface. i mean "webtoilet, ban X" is 2 lines of code
phf[asciilifeform]: or rather brb
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011296 << I've definitely been getting my fill of summer. I also get quiet when I'm grunting out a piece of work.
shinohai[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011295 << I'm already blocked by the keet.io folks for the unpardonable sin of asking "where is source?" "We can't release yet because reasons, use it anyway it's seekrit!"
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 15:46:24 phf[awt]: i suspect there's multiple "whys", it's summer, #a is friendlier to casual ban
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 15:43:47 awt: The p2p space on Twitter rn is all about keet and nostr.
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011298 << there's some uninspected "democracy decides what is true" in here, seems like.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 16:01:51 billymg: imo this is a valuable insight. can think of pest like any social network, where popularity is determined by the quality (or at least "draw") of the content ("where the action is"). online forums don't come and go because of their underlying technology or UX
signpost[asciilifeform]: as far as immediate, practical usefulness goes, decentralized warez "site" remains top of my list for pestnet applications.
PeterL[asciilifeform]: decentralized dns replacement?
signpost[asciilifeform]: and I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what it means to have structured messages within a shared, decentralized log.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 16:38:18 phf[awt]: crtdaydreams, sure, but also why. not like you'll have a sudden influx of people dying to have a conversation with us. it'll be the same usual suspects, adlai and vex, and maybe bb and other people who might resurface. i mean "webtoilet, ban X" is 2 lines of code
signpost[asciilifeform] can see himself publishing string->IP mappings, warez payloads, blog posts, w/e into same.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 18:06:25 signpost: "sane" people are deplatformed every day. once this thing's a viable alternative it oughta be aggressively promoted to those folks, who then bring their horde of normies.
billymg[asciilifeform]: last year i had a twatter account, was eventually suspended and i didn't bother creating another after that
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: when one of us gets killed for facilitating the sale of a brick of aluminum, pop the champagne.
billymg[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: they can set up their own loggers and publish to their own websites. like a 24/7 continuous podcast, in text form, with only people they invite
billymg[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: and can say whatever taboo shit they like and never be deplatformed
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 18:08:36 signpost: "I want to efficiently distribute this byte-array I just produced among my frens, and them among their frens"
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-22 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011277 << asciilifeform took for 1st time in many yrs 'vacation', to carry out a physical experiment (will elide details, not interesting to readers, guaranteed) which ended in crater, demoralizing. in the course of which, lol, contracted cur
phf[asciilifeform]: one wanted your attention, one would be encouraged to remain in #a
phf[asciilifeform]: e.g. there's been a lively conversation on pest today, but your last active engagement at the moment of my answer is very attentive response to gregorynyssa's personal confessions. an external observer who might want to engage with asciilifeform is therefore disincentivized from attempting pestnet participation. in fact if
PeterL[asciilifeform]: awt: just updated to 9973. Error message "blatta: error: Please specify a handle", tried to fix it and the got "blatta: error: no such option: --handle". Could you make the first messa
PeterL[asciilifeform]: s/and the got/and then got
busybot[asciilifeform]: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 21417.03 USD
shinohai[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011376 << does trinque have an academic interest in 3D/CAD firearms and such?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 18:05:04 signpost: wave-of-meat has its place, but I'd rather have the defense distributed guys in here, folks teaching el salvadorean abuelitas bitcoin, etc.
phf[asciilifeform]: hmm, i hate that saying as much as i hate the “boating accident”. “hur hur i lost my guns in a BOATING ACCIDENT … IN MINECRAFT!11”
awt[asciilifeform]: PeterL: yeah I can change that.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: pest-o-tron in awk soon
awt[asciilifeform]: shinohai: I never learned how to use awk. <<awkward>>
shinohai[asciilifeform]: awk wasn't the shittiest waste of my time. You can make udp clients and servers with it! :D
phf[asciilifeform]: i wrote a bunch of awk, but every system seems to have non-standard, incompatible extensions. gnu awk had unicode since forever, but it's also the only one that supports networking. openbsd has its own version. kernighan is fixing "one true awk", which is what comes stock with debian and macos
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-23#1113344 << jesus christ, man, that's trash tier intellectuals
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-23 gregorynyssa: the professors Leonard Shlain, Marshall McLuhan, and Carrolll Quigley all attest to this 20th century "nonverbal communication" skyrocketing.
phf[asciilifeform]: strongly correlated with the inability to bring up a pest station :}
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011258 << on account of dugin and his connection to letov, suddenly everything in current ru situation is expressable with GrOb songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9178yCCAxzM
phf[asciilifeform]: looking forward to asciilifeform attempting a translation of that one :>
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 12:07:22 phf[awt]: yegor letov specifically was a frontman of a punk band (for lack of better term, because it's not really western style punk, more like heavy take on bard music, with heady lyrics) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG7JRvtsh1U
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-23 18:59:33 phf[awt]: strongly correlated with the inability to bring up a pest station :}
shinohai[asciilifeform]: billymg I really appreciate your choice of background color for pest logs btw, makes night reading so much more enjoyable.
billymg[asciilifeform]: ty shinohai, happy to hear that
billymg[asciilifeform]: i have to ask, is it the light theme or dark theme you're using? (or maybe you have your OS set to change based on the time of day)
billymg[asciilifeform]: the light theme is the only one i use now, despite dragging my feet in making it in the first place
billymg[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: shinohai: got it, cool!
billymg[asciilifeform]: morning, asciilifeform, how goes the castle fortification?
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011286 << seems to forget that needs alternate comms for initial key exch
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: phf: Is it inherently a p2p problem? i.e. you don't allow randoms to dc you on IRC, part of that is nettiquite and part of that is "idfk who you even are?" how can that be bridged on a platform that in essence, is ~strictly~ that?
gregorynyssa[asciilifeform]: Let us see if this works.
busybot[asciilifeform]: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 23815.61 USD
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $23336.38
signpost[asciilifeform]: congrats gregornyssa, hearing you loud and clear.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: adlai: I hope this doesn't mean you're going to try writing seppukuware
PeterL[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: I tested positive for covid. Right now it just feels like a mild cold, hopefully it doesn't get worse
awt[asciilifeform]: PeterL: get well soon!
busybot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $23339.52
billymg[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: nice gregornyssa, looks like we are successfully peered now as well
awt[asciilifeform]: I was wondering if it was a version problem.
awt[asciilifeform]: Odd that no one saw the error message
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Blatta bug - forgot versioin numbers increment down
busybot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $23032.54
crawlerbot[asciilifeform]: 205.134.172.26 (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, United States - peers: 14 - last probed: 13m ago
crawlerbot[asciilifeform]: 205.134.172.6 (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=747636, v=99999, United States - peers: 11 - last probed: 13m ago
awt[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: I don't understand why a Prod must be replied to with another Prod if everyone is periodically sending out Prod messages.
PeterL[asciilifeform]: are there two types, a prod request and a prod response?
PeterL[asciilifeform]: I wonder if anybody's pest traffic will ever be interesting enough that somebody would try to do traffic analysis on it?
dulapbot: (trilema) 2019-12-14 mp_en_viaje: most beings an engineer produce useful things only as an unintentional / coincidental byproduct of an internal cycle of self-assuaging that's broadly unrelated to anything else.
phf[asciilifeform]: ah poop might've as well posted a btcbase link…
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: more importantly was it a legitimate invention before the ancient mp had his ass wiped and proclaimed it good?
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-02#1010990 << in .au first settlers found this big heart shaped plant, lotsa surface area... "hmm good bum wipes." needles to say, prolly shat bricks. plant in q is "Gympie-Gympie"
busybot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 23330.55 USD
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-03#1113034 << this like watching my outdoor cat trying to figure out if front door me is as much of a friend as a porch door me…
PeterL[asciilifeform]: if only it could talk and ask you
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-03 adlai: I guess awt can tell phf that... oh wait, do they even still use IRC !?
shinohai[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: GM and here is the funniest goddamned thing you will read on Shithub all year: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/20273#discussioncomment-3320989
phf[asciilifeform]: depends on your sense of humor of course, but i find above issue comment hilarious, and julius evola is right smirking along
shinohai[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Oh yes, no shortage of lulz in issues, but having their codebot break because you used gender constructs is *chef's kiss*.
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: i'm just trolling, it's an empty payload
shinohai[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-04#1011014 << imma include this as a comment somewhere in my st pbuild.
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-06#1113069 << you need books on marine chronometers, the great ships and the lesser known wwii aerial battles. also books on lathe work, and biographies of men you respect despite their flaws.
bitbot[5]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-06 scoopbot: New article on 0xcdd.com: Books
shinohai[7]: $ticker btc usd
busybot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $23186.09
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform] shoulda put it down as an archive.is link but whatevs
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-10 asciilifeform: sees n days of log, goes into 'whythefuq even bothered to log in' dfa state
signpost[asciilifeform]: pest's stable enough and folks are welcome to join if they can find a single person willing to peer.
awt[asciilifeform]: Since 9973 will set the pest version to 0xFA, No one on 9974 or higher will see messages from stations running 9973. You can of course manually set the pest version to whatever you want in message.py.
phf[asciilifeform]: that seems like it'll result in a period of “halp my messages don't go through!!!1”
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: phf: yes. Not sure how to avoid this.
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: leave the version as is, and bump it once bulk of people are running on a client that doesn't have a broken version checker
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: version doesn't reflect capabilities anyway, as per http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-10#1011100 so probably can “nail version field down” once fully compliant with some kind of slice
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-10 14:29:03 awt: Gonna try and relase 9973 today. Will include Prod support but no AddressCast.
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: and to further make this point, probably best to lean in the direction of network stability, over compliance, at this stage of pest development
awt[asciilifeform]: Ok disregard above re: versions. I'll just release 9973 with pest version 0xFC (what it's currently at).
awt[asciilifeform]: For anyone wondering why to update to 9973, btw, the new functionality is basically that if you move and get covid'd, or otherwise go offline for a while, when you get back on, you'll automatically be brought up to date on missed messages.
awt[asciilifeform]: Without having to receive a Broadcast or DM first.
PeterL[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: signpost: so I had a few moments, was thinking about lubyism/online codes, is http://trinque.org/2022/02/19/online-codes-in-python-wip/ the latest python version of your thing or did you improve upon that?
signpost[asciilifeform]: PeterL: nah, I refactored it a few times since then. lemme poast the latest py version.
jonsykkel[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: gose out evry 10min for som reason
jonsykkel[4]: exelent
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: fortunately doesn't crash blatta
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: nice awt, will roll that out now
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: in other news, I restricted the front page of http://wot.deedbot.org/ to ratings given in the last 5yrs, and now it looks about how one'd expect
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: awt: looks like a nice cleanup on message parsing eh?
signpost[4]: up with 9973
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: signpost: yes indeed!
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: signpost: received your Prod message.
PeterL[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: signpost: on wot page, it looks like there are two names up above the top of my screen?
PeterL[4]: oh, wait, when I zoomed the page they came into view
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: yeah, I need to unfuck the CSS a bit yet.
trbexplorer[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: mins_since_last_block: 10
trbexplorer[asciilifeform]: block_height: 748982
whaack[asciilifeform]: !e view-height
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-11 10:15:28 billymg: also, duffel bag usd or digital?
crtdaydreams[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-12#1011159 << Reminds me of a certain black mirror episode
phf[asciilifeform]: awt: so i kind of fouled the test, but ostensibly if i just come up from non operation, and start sending noise packets, i should get back a prod within some frequency?
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: now that i sent a message i should definitely get a prod packet?
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-12#1113115 << how did it go, if your girl is trained to maintain your infrastructure while you're laid out, you're scum and your girl is useless? :}
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: awt: oh i have to send one, before you send me one back? i haven't read the spec, i'm just running my mouth here
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: No further prods are required to be sent past the reply afaict
awt[4]: Oh I see. If you just come up, you need to send a prod to get one. Blatta can be set to send prods periodially, but the default right now is just to blast them out on launch.
jonsykkel[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: u have same funny with sha257 u can intepret it as a aray of 8bit numbers where indian dosnt mater or one bigas 256bit number wher it dose
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: apropos it's more convenient to treat hashes as bignums in lisp, and oldschool lisps (genera and allegro common lisp come to mind) do just that. modern lispers prefer to sling around arrays of octets
phf[6]: which is a dirty c-ism!
shinohai[6]: Wow when you say it like that phf makes me wanna moan "fuck me like the C programming language" during sex.
awt[4]: shinohai: C style involves too much anal
jonsykkel[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: thers other advanages also to thinkig of them as numbers, for exampel u get this implicit ordering by just doing simpel < or >, can be usful in p2p protocols
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: shinohai you've forked for some reason, the four posts north of "fuck me like the C programming language" don't show up on bitdash.io either.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform] had not been made aware of his passing until now, fond of many long nights hacking away to his music
awt[asciilifeform]: Buenos dias shinohai
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: If anyone is looking for a python project, there several control commands that have yet to be implemented in blatta: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=4003#252-control-commands
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: I think they would be easier to tackler and test than addidng new message types. I'm probably doing AddressCast next, fwiw.
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: I love having a line with horrible typos sitting at the end of the log forever.
billymg[asciilifeform]: jonsykkel: yeah, i've been meaning to fix that. it's a unicode error, some node must have a unicode character in its
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform] just got back from a week on the beach at south padre island
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-19 12:53:55 awt: signpost: according to the logs seems like it's not possible to change the nick deedbot has associated with my key. Still true?
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: signpost: great! When you get a chance please change it to awt.
awt[asciilifeform]: Likely assassination attempt on Dugin. Daugher killed instead.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-21 21:48:18 signpost: phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-20#1011250 << what's your sense of the stature of Dugin in Russia?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-08-22 asciilifeform: this kinda thinking continues to perplex asciilifeform . wai make n-th aol? there is already over9000 centralized aol-style chats.
awt[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011280 << Indeed. In that case the question is then why is nobody here? I can't see at this point what IRC has that pestnet doesn't.
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 14:42:34 phf[awt]: at the very least people who are talking about pest ought to be actively participating in pest. if nothing else then to discover that perhaps they don't want to participate in pestnet, or have more realistic perspective on what needs to be improved.
awt[asciilifeform]: Alternatively, maybe there's nothing imortant to discuss?
awt[asciilifeform]: PeterL: certainly but that wouldn't prevent those of us already here from using pest on a daily basis
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-05-11 signpost: tricking all the meatsacks into attacking the same point in unison is mighty technology; I'm not going to arrogantly shit on it.
billymg[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: imo this is a valuable insight. can think of pest like any social network, where popularity is determined by the quality (or at least "draw") of the content ("where the action is"). online forums don't come and go because of their underlying technology or UX
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: but to address the elephant in the room; is this even the purpose of pest?
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: To be a public forum, that is.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: I'm not sure to be honest. I just think there's a lot to learn from interacting with you folx, even if I never get to know any of you above a repor level (there's a high bar for entry :P). But hell, I might aswell just read logs. It's quite evident by now that my contributions are quite limited, perhaps I would be in my be
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: crtdaydreams, i don't think it is. for one existing protocol doesn't mandate it
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: not like peering is "friends forever", can as easily unpeer :p
billymg[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: imo anyone here, at this stage, gets credibility points simply for being here (not that those can't then be revoked in the future)
jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: well theres always ignore pakcets flying bak and forth every sec, so ur data will likely riperoni anyway
phf[asciilifeform]: so when a packet comes in you know that it's a getdata response by checking your existing messages again?
jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: if ur limits are tight
phf[asciilifeform]: (as opposed to e.g. having a special list of pending getdata messages)
awt[asciilifeform]: PeterL: same type with different flag setting
phf[asciilifeform]: apparently i've been ignoring netchain messages (or rather not producing right ones)
jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: that why visitors are banned from my lan
awt[asciilifeform]: last line from phf was completely blank for me
phf[asciilifeform]: here's how my packet log looks, http://glyf.org/tmp/pest-packets.pdf red lines are selfhchains, black lines are netchains. messages that are just hashes are missing from my backlog, and if either netchain or selfchain is 0 i don't render it
phf[asciilifeform]: *where all _code_ is a kind of glorified calculator
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: (or some derivative thereof)
crawlerbot[asciilifeform]: 205.134.172.28 (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, United States - peers: 17 - last probed: 13m ago
crawlerbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: 103.6.212.28 (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 16 - last probed: 12m ago
phf[asciilifeform]: we lost asciilifeform…
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-02#1112990 << ignore's main point, afaiu, is for busting traffic analysis. prod having a potentially predictable request/response pattern makes it unusable for that purpose. can sprinkle ignores judiciously for whatever reason a station might decide to
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: PeterL, that's like asking a prepper if he trully intends to use his M16 against the gubernment, at any point, and if he does, why prey tell has he not bothered to keep his general fitness and aerobics up to standard, before buying the extra capacity magazine, a question before reasonable and also impolite!
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: i wonder if adlai reads pest logs
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-26#1010433 << main problem with ironclad is that it's garbage happy. there's for example no way to make red packet check cheap, an accidental or intentional flood of red packets will generate a lot of garbage. sbcl is clever about cleaning up short lived garbage, but there are no guarant
phf[asciilifeform]: but the core algorithms don't need all that garbage, it comes from book keeping machinery. "i want a sha384 hmac" creates 3+ instances of clos objects
awt[asciilifeform]: Gotta add something to the order buffer so the staleness check can be avoided for the GetData response.
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011030 << yeah blatta keeps a list of messages that are "out of order" in the order buffer. When ancestors come in via a GetData response, they avoid the timestamp check if a direct descendent is in the order buffer.
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-06 13:31:54 phf[awt]: so when a packet comes in you know that it's a getdata response by checking your existing messages again?
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: jonsykkel and I also ended up with a datastructure to keep track of outgoing GetData messages to ensure messages aren't requested multiple times.
phf[asciilifeform]: pestbot: ping
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-06 14:26:35 phf[awt]: hello, world
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: wow nice I've been meaning to write a tool to display chains somehow
phf[asciilifeform]: red is self chain
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: i don't have any preferences, if you're building your own at the moment, we can standardize on any other colors, as long as they are shared, so that it's easier to read them moving forward
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-06 17:08:26 phf[awt]: graphviz, it's just a simple dot graph
jonsykkel[5]: u mean comprehensive
jonsykkel[5]: spent like 30min on this
jonsykkel[6]: didnt even need to tell program to do that
jonsykkel[6]: very good software
phf[asciilifeform]: coks stands supreme, the giraf don't lie
awt[asciilifeform]: actually after staring at it for a while my thread seems to make sense. Just phf's long thread with no netchain is weird
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: awt, also no time is intentional. i want to understand the packet graph's behavior outside of time domain
phf[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: e.g. good old topological sort should give you mostly correct packet order (of course when netchain/selfchain is valid)
awt[asciilifeform]: net chain should zigzag between your selfchain thread and mine. But the beginning of your thread doesn't do that. There should be a net chain edge from "* data" to "apparently", but there is none.
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011036 << ah I see you are already aware, just noticed rereading logs
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-06 14:09:48 phf[awt]: apparently i've been ignoring netchain messages (or rather not producing right ones)
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Cool. Got a prototype of Prod working that actually sends out and handles GetData requests.
phf[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011073 << yah, the whole graphviz was prompted by me realizing that i'm ignoring the whole netchain thing
bitbot[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-06 21:01:13 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011036 << ah I see you are already aware, just noticed rereading logs
bitbot[5]: Logged on 2022-08-04 10:35:13 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-04#1011007 << there are tbf all kinds of funny things on github https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/413#issuecomment-1186918603
bitbot[6]: Logged on 2022-08-06 12:28:24 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-06#1113069 << you need books on marine chronometers, the great ships and the lesser known wwii aerial battles. also books on lathe work, and biographies of men you respect despite their flaws.
bitbot[7]: Logged on 2022-08-06 18:13:23 jonsykkel: http://zzz.st/up/iT8fbjF8/giraf.png
phf[5]: doing kahn sort on packets lays them out somewhat reasonably. of course my malformed packets without netchain are all kinds of messed up
phf[6]: or netchain. those messages should stay “in the same place” in the topological sort as in the original order of arrival sequence
phf[5]: perhaps if i could figure out some kind of “stable” topological sort.. graph construction preserves the original order of arrival, but then kahn slings things around. i probably need to make it stable anyway, because there's going to be new, blind chains from people who “hello” for the first time, without selfchain
phf[8]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-07#1011082 << all biographies worth reading have already been written, because they don't make men worth writing about anymore
bitbot[8]: Logged on 2022-08-07 01:37:25 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011024 << you gonna write a biography? :P
phf[8]: neat thing about auxiliary graph is that it necessarily has nodes for missing packets, one can periodically getdata for empty nodes, unt
phf[8]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-06-14#1106932 << what's the impression after however long it's been couple of months. also did you ever figure out custom os build, or gave up on that?
bitbot[8]: (asciilifeform) 2022-06-14 signpost: in other fetishes, mudila phone now works. had to get a new sim card and factory reset.
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform] currently focused on getting a lisp version out of my online-codes impl.
signpost[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: yeah I hit my dose limit on amphetamine chatter and turned off IRC.
awt[4]: * pest version, that is
jonsykkel[6]: awt: i didnt implement prod, they are banner packets
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: note to asciilifeform: with 9973 you should be able to set any numerical knobs to float values without crashing your station now
awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform]: phf: I don't see any prod messages from you in my log
awt[asciilifeform]: But yes, if you send a prod you should get an immediate reply prod
phf[asciilifeform]: right, i forgot to mention that, because i also have a reader for bignums (really more like numbers where size is specified at runtime) and it exhibits similar inconsistency
phf[asciilifeform]: i like how there's chains of my messages just kind of floating in the aether, until e.g. asciilifeform responds with a proper netchain to give it placement
awt[asciilifeform]: phf: what did you use to generate the pdf?
awt[asciilifeform]: oic my term doesn't support clowns
phf[asciilifeform]: graphviz, it's just a simple dot graph
awt[6]: ok now that doesn't even show up on the bitdash logs
awt[6]: Prod doesn't quite fit in with the order buffer mechanism. When you receive a prod with a tip you don't have, there's no message to add to the order buffer. But...
phf[5]: this is test
phf[5]: hello, world
phf[6]: one sec
awt[7]: lol how crude
awt[7]: I think some sort of horizontal grouping by time increment would make phf's graph a bit more clear
asciilifeform: billymg: lol, it's an unremarkable hovel 30m walk from the prev one
asciilifeform took most of year to make it sorta habitable, and not because wreck but because ~0 time. and still, lol, renting the old 1 even nao
awt[asciilifeform]: wb asciilifeform
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-01-13 phf: copypaste: the fact that your "tens of thousands of dollars" deals have not been compromised is entirely due to "uncatchable joe" factor. is russian joke, "this there is uncatchable joe. -- woah, nobody can catch him? -- no, nobody cares to"
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 09:51:34 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|crawlerbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011378 << to date asciilifeform not impressed with any of the supposedly 'sane' 'deplatformed folx' (wai were 'platformed' to start with?)
phf[asciilifeform]: you (or your fans) have been posting links to e.g. hackernews, to be immediately flagged and downvoted, because disagreeable positions, but that's not "deplatforming", that's "i didn't want to be on that platform to begin with"?
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $21571.11
phf[asciilifeform]: in totally unrelated i do wonder why propagation is so janky. i'm looking at the logs on bitdash and nosuchlabs, and the messages are in all kinds of jacked order. it took almost a minute for dulapbot response to get to me
busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $21558.99
phf[asciilifeform]: awt, i think you already know, but your deduper doesn't quite work right, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mx2h
awt[asciilifeform]: phf likely nosuchlabs order is off due to sync, in which logs are dumped in chunks as they come in. The lines within the chunks are in order, but the chunks themselves are in somewhat reverse chronological order.
asciilifeform: awt: asciilifeform's logger is at this pt ~inedible, will need to zap & reload from billymg's at some pt
asciilifeform: ( and to find out wai dulapbot's peerings dun seem to make for a reasonably realtime intake )
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011472 << see also. asciilifeform's conclusion was 'forum for lamers, fughetit'
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 11:16:35 phf[awt]: you (or your fans) have been posting links to e.g. hackernews, to be immediately flagged and downvoted, because disagreeable positions, but that's not "deplatforming", that's "i didn't want to be on that platform to begin with"?
asciilifeform dislikes meme 'deplatforming' because it assumes the lulnotion that 'nobody can post except on 'platforms''
awt[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: note re: sync on 9973 - the IRC client need not be attached for sync to occur.
asciilifeform: awt: that wasn't the problem, it's always attached
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011376 << asciilifeform admits to indifference re subj. 'make sumthing that shoots from junkyard parts' was solved problem in ww2 era, and reqs no fancy cncisms, they're a distraction for 'ricers'.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 18:05:04 signpost: wave-of-meat has its place, but I'd rather have the defense distributed guys in here, folks teaching el salvadorean abuelitas bitcoin, etc.
asciilifeform: as for 'teach lamers to bitcoin', to date afaik only resulted in proliferation of folx feeding the fractional-reserve gox scammers
awt[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: the idea was that if you don't want a bunch of out of order sync noise, you can disconnect the client for a while
asciilifeform: awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011269 << asciilifeform not blind to the fact that ~errything he does is either a chore or a 'displacement'. for all the good this realization does, lol
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 14:15:04 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-22#1113248 << i came to view this behavior as particularly kind of displacement activity. it's a combination of one of the later threads between diana and mp on malleability of computer artifacts and an old copypasta from “ivan chesnokov
shinohai[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011489 << then did they truly learn to Bitcoin at all?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 12:16:41 asciilifeform[5]: as for 'teach lamers to bitcoin', to date afaik only resulted in proliferation of folx feeding the fractional-reserve gox scammers
asciilifeform: shinohai: 'bitcoin'
shinohai[asciilifeform] fresh off the hate train for latest blogpost calling lightning a shitcoin .....
awt[asciilifeform]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-08-24#1011538 << purely palliative measure until "tru logs" via pest db rather than pushing a string through the IRC hole
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-08-24 12:25:00 asciilifeform: awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition
asciilifeform: shinohai: if you get kick outta engaging with these, by all means, beats vodka, afaik won't give cirrhosis
asciilifeform: awt: correct
shinohai[asciilifeform]: Well I'm not gonna pickle liver, but vodka + shitposting is sometimes a great time.
awt[asciilifeform]: phf: I'm aware of the dupe issue you've mentioned before. I wonder if there's some sort of pattern there with it happening with a log quote.
awt[asciilifeform]: A log quote from a syncing bot station...
asciilifeform: for folx who grasp that none of the buttons within their reach are connected to anyffin interesting, the options typically are vodka; nagant; 'displacements'; commercial worx (getmoar dough, buy fancier coffin!). asciilifeform in recent yrs partial to the last item
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011325 << may've said this before, but imho dulapnet oughta be replaced with a pest gate of the type proposed by phf
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 16:27:19 phf[awt]: billymg, there's a slump, but there's also definitely bifurcation. occassional drive by comment, or a vex stream, or some "hello, i'm still alive" ping will go to either, and necessarily splits the attention
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011366 << there afaik are 2 plausible models. 1 is where 'there are interesting people with the time & juice for interesting discussion, they simply need a new protocol' but there's naturally also the ~other~ one. 'best magician cannot pull rabbit from hat unless there is in fact a r
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 17:17:16 signpost: (and of course, little things break through and become big at exactly that kind of time, when the incumbent falters)
asciilifeform: ( ftr to asciilifeform 'big' is synonymous with 'dominated by left snail of bell curve'. in the past, e.g. '90s usenet gave illusion that it can be otherwise, but oughta remember that 1) there was already an implicit filter 2) wasn't all that big )
asciilifeform: ...unless there is in fact a rabbit in that hat'(tm)
asciilifeform: ^ major item on asciilifeform's blatta wishlist -- working msg splitter
asciilifeform: currently snips off rather arbitrarily
awt[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: on my wishlist too
awt[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: also on my wishlist is a protocol spec for pest clients. I will likely need some help there. Just don't want to put too much more effort into IRC support.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011394 << this kinda lul periodically comes up, and asciilifeform can't resist to comment :
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-22 18:31:16 billymg: yep, developers fair game now
asciilifeform: in 100% of these, the reich.'crime' aint 'ohnoez, wrote a proggy, and it was 'too kewl for skool'', but rather 'ohey, identifiable plebe with a nontrivial coin-denominated income stream, let's dekulakize pronto'
asciilifeform: and ftr if asciilifeform one day hears that buchenwald has been reopened, and the barracks filled with shitcoin 'money makers' waiting to be fed to rottweilers one at a time, toes 1st -- won't feel any emotion but vague 'good things ~do~ occasionally happen'
billymg[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011466 << ah, well, better than nothing. i only asked because it sounded like you were at least adding some cool upgrades
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 10:56:01 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: billymg: lol, it's an unremarkable hovel 30m walk from the prev one
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 15:50:42 asciilifeform[4]: in 100% of these, the reich.'crime' aint 'ohnoez, wrote a proggy, and it was 'too kewl for skool'', but rather 'ohey, identifiable plebe with a nontrivial coin-denominated income stream, let's dekulakize pronto'
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2021-09-21 asciilifeform: shinohai: moar likely they simply wanted some btc (perhaps to refill waterfall, hence yest.'s -xx% dump)
billymg[asciilifeform]: i didn't know this particular victim was also running a scam, thought he merely provided the software
billymg[asciilifeform]: though possibly was hosting it "as a service" and taking a %, didn't bother looking into it
billymg[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011498 << any reason i couldn't try to hack together something for the existing logotron that tails blatta's sqlite db for the inserts instead of having the bot do it?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 12:29:41 awt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-08-24#1011538 << purely palliative measure until "tru logs" via pest db rather than pushing a string through the IRC hole
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-08-24 12:25:00 asciilifeform: awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition
awt[asciilifeform]: billymg: no reason you couldn't
awt[asciilifeform]: The attempt would be informative, at the least.
billymg[asciilifeform]: awt: ok, might take a look at doing that soon then
billymg[asciilifeform]: well, "soon" at least
phf[asciilifeform]: i finally added transparent recovery to networking code for when the network goes down, so now at least when i get on wifi again i start magically getting new packets
phf[asciilifeform]: kind of neat, at late 90s state of the art now :>
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011482 << well that's kind of my point, the good old “we don't want you here — i didn't want to be here to begin with because you're all lame!!1”. meanwhile i suspect there's people on hackernews who might be amendable to reason, who otherwise think that ptacek is be all end al
phf[asciilifeform]: l authority on all subjects
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 12:07:51 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011472 << see also. asciilifeform's conclusion was 'forum for lamers, fughetit'
phf[asciilifeform]: deplatforming goes beyond “kicked off twitter” and it's all the things discussed on #t already: removed from searches for russian propaganda, confiscated dns for racism, at what point does own platform becomes funcitonally equivalent to publishing to desk drawer
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011528 << does blatta already correctly sort the messages? that is if one to query blatta database will packets come out in the correct timestamp/netchain/selfchain order?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 17:59:52 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011498 << any reason i couldn't try to hack together something for the existing logotron that tails blatta's sqlite db for the inserts instead of having the bot do it?
phf[asciilifeform]: i ended up making a netchain/selfchain dependency graph and then sorting it with kahn, but i might be overthinking it… i ignored the part of the spec where one's supposed to keep the various lists with pending packets, does the correct ordering fall out from following the spec precisely?
awt[asciilifeform]: phf: no there's no mechanism for extracting a chain in order. messages are stored in the log table as decrypted binary objects.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011541 << this aint wrong, but in asciilifeform's pov, so far the interesting people he's met have entirely diff problem (finding ea.other at all!) rather than censors
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 18:30:56 phf[awt]: deplatforming goes beyond “kicked off twitter” and it's all the things discussed on #t already: removed from searches for russian propaganda, confiscated dns for racism, at what point does own platform becomes funcitonally equivalent to publishing to desk drawer
asciilifeform: (whereas the censored!111 weevs, asciilifeform finds mortally tedious, to date, to the last man, fwiw)
asciilifeform: e.g. asciilifeform , 'uncatchable joe', not earned to be censored from dns, much less car bomb, but for ~decade had ~nobody to meaningfuly talk to on the net
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011536 << this'd be what 'prod' was intended for, neh
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 18:14:26 phf[awt]: i finally added transparent recovery to networking code for when the network goes down, so now at least when i get on wifi again i start magically getting new packets
phf[asciilifeform]: oh, that's unrelated to prod. my code used to throw millions of exceptions whenever packets stopped delivering
asciilifeform: hm does the socket somehow die when wifi croaks?
asciilifeform not expected this
phf[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, there are network states. e.g. if counterparty didn't explicitly disable icmp (which is recommended but not mandated by spec) you'll get a network error when the port times out or udp gets explicitly closed
phf[asciilifeform]: when wifi goes down and there's nowhere for packet to go at all, os also reports it back as errno
asciilifeform: iirc awt observed this when baking his py proto
phf[asciilifeform]: fwiw i also thought that udp is entirely fire and forget, apparently not so
asciilifeform: funny how one doesn't actually get connectionless udp simply 'by asking', the icmp nonsense evidently ubiquitous
phf[asciilifeform]: the convenient part is that you can start one udp socket, which serves as a server, and when you send from that socket you explicitly specify ip/port on each send. so if you take care of errors when send fails, the first successful send retargets everyone back to that one socket, and everything just works™
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011544 << dollars to doughnuts, it doesn't, asciilifeform did not exhaustively model the thing, is unabashedly на коленке product atm
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 18:40:42 phf[awt]: i ended up making a netchain/selfchain dependency graph and then sorting it with kahn, but i might be overthinking it… i ignored the part of the spec where one's supposed to keep the various lists with pending packets, does the correct ordering fall out from following the spec prec
phf[asciilifeform]: the socket otherwise doesn't fail, doesn't need to be restarted (at least as far as i can see), so the actual bookeeping mechanism is very simple
asciilifeform: makes sense
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-08-24 17:55:42 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011466 << ah, well, better than nothing. i only asked because it sounded like you were at least adding some cool upgrades
awt[asciilifeform]: Thinking further about 'tru logger' this would also perhaps be best done via a socket using a specified protocol. Perhaps if signpost could give a very concrete example of what he images some portion of the protocol might look like I could run with it. Having trouble starting on it as is.
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