awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: $ticker btc
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awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: $ticker btc usd
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awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: Having v in pentacle is great for n00bs. So much easier to get started.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: pentacle is the shit isn't it?
shinohai[asciilifeform]: Looks like imma hafta compile tcl, then sqlite, then py2.7 and *then* should be able to blatta if all goes well.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: The price of being pioneers I guess lol
signpost[asciilifeform]: shinohai: hm, and what dependency hell is tcl going to drag in?
signpost[asciilifeform] does want blatta. might be worth it for me to help replace blatta's storage.
signpost[asciilifeform]: looks like maybe tcl just wants bdb, which will already be present for bitcoind.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: signpost: Best I can tell mostly C code, a small bit of Ada in there too: https://github.com/tcltk/tcl
signpost[asciilifeform]: I don't want to be so religious we don't do anything, just mindful of how much stuff gets dragged in.
signpost[asciilifeform]: this exercise at least tells us how many things we actually depend upon.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: That's what I was thinking, at least gives one thorough education in *precisely* what exists on system.
signpost[asciilifeform]: what was the patch you needed for python?
signpost[asciilifeform]: I've got sbcl working over here, and the sbcl test suite pointed out to me that I hadn't created /etc/group yet.
signpost[asciilifeform]: once I did, all sbcl tests passed without patching. curious if python was also mad about that.
signpost[asciilifeform]: (I've meanwhile added a minimal /etc/group to /src/build/root)
signpost[asciilifeform]: probably about time I cut a genesis for pbuild and the build scripts. I'll get to that next week, and then you'll be unblocked to patch.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: hang tite will paste python patch
signpost[asciilifeform]: there's the problem with python. METH
shinohai[asciilifeform]: Now there may be more things that surface once I try building w/ sqlite support - I'm prolly not gonna compile w/ ssl and all that stuff unless someone knows reason I should.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: lol @ METH
signpost[asciilifeform]: interesting, saving https://bugs.python.org/issue20594 in my notes, and here for posterity.
signpost[asciilifeform]: shinohai: I did a build of python last week sometime and also skipped ssl, though we should explicitly kill it off in the configure step so it doesn't see bitcoind's old openssl and decide to enable
signpost[asciilifeform] would much rather have zero ssl than w/e old-ass openssl that happened to work in trb.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: I imagine openssl eventually gonna rear ugly head though in something :/
signpost[asciilifeform]: iirc the tls implementation in busybox doesn't verify shit.
signpost[asciilifeform]: and is limited in other ways.
signpost[asciilifeform]: but I'd recommend letting it bump into the need first.
signpost[asciilifeform]: shinohai: hm, ugh, now I wonder how much openssh depends on openssl.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: That was one of the next things I wanted to try after I got past blatta.
signpost[asciilifeform]: well anyway, I don't want to apply such conservatism that nothing at all can be done. pressure can be applied to at least minimize optional interdependency.
signpost[asciilifeform]: cool
shinohai[asciilifeform]: I'm addicted to it though already, everything just makes sense, is readable.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: And protable!
shinohai[asciilifeform]: ugh portable
signpost[asciilifeform]: glad to hear it. put a lot of sweat into it, and intend to use it for a few embedded projects soon. (home defense stuff with perimeter sensors and cameras, without obscene cloud shit)
signpost[asciilifeform]: will very much appreciate your and others help making pentacle more useful, and keeping the thing tidy/small.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: have you tried building it on a non-x86 machine yet?
signpost[asciilifeform]: nah, had the thing fart out a ppc-targeting gcc the other day, seemed to work, but haven't built on anything else yet.
signpost[asciilifeform]: would be a good experiment on anything (arm, etc)
signpost[asciilifeform]: my intent is to make targeting another arch brain-dead simple on any pentacle instance; you'll see me passing BUILD/HOST/TARGET through pbuild to that end.
signpost[asciilifeform]: oughta be able to do say HOST=ppc-linux-musl /src/pbuild install busybox -d /ppc and get oneself a busybox binary they can run on ppc.
signpost[asciilifeform]: see also: crossdev on gentoo
shinohai[asciilifeform]: That would be neato (similar to doing crosdev currently)
signpost[billymg]: yup yup
shinohai[asciilifeform]: Hmmmm tcl build fails with tclEpollNotfy.c:28:23: fatal error: sys/queue.h: No such file or directory
awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: I am shocked tcl is required for sqlite
shinohai[asciilifeform]: tclsh is what it bitches about not having, could find nothing yet on method to build without it.
awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: It seems as though sqlite was initially developed as an extension for tcl.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: Could have sworn I built by hand years ago w/ only awk scripts and no tcl, but guess I dreamed it.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-09#1005299 << is used there for the ecdsaism. asciilifeform has notions of replacing w/ ffaistic routines.
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 00:25:16 signpost[asciilifeform]: would much rather have zero ssl than w/e old-ass openssl that happened to work in trb.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-09#1005311 << asciilifeform plans cameras around new pad, quite interested in what signpost digs up re: usable irons to plant the thing on
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 00:42:56 signpost[asciilifeform]: glad to hear it. put a lot of sweat into it, and intend to use it for a few embedded projects soon. (home defense stuff with perimeter sensors and cameras, without obscene cloud shit)
asciilifeform currently has ones which simply config'd to upload to local ftp on motion
asciilifeform: they annoyingly crash tho, coupla times / yr
shinohai[asciilifeform]: "USE CODE YOUTUBE FOR 20% SIMPLY SAFE!!!!"
shinohai[asciilifeform]: God I hate those fuckers
asciilifeform: lol
shinohai[asciilifeform]: So appears musl doesn't have queue.h - alpine solves by introducing a bsd-compat-headers package.
signpost[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: will let ya know if I find/build anything worthwhile in re: cameras.
signpost[asciilifeform]: shinohai: sounds about right. elfutils (which contains libelf) wanted a bunch of other non-posix glibc funcs, which brought in argp-standalone, musl-fts, musl-obstack
signpost[asciilifeform]: the spittoon effect.
signpost[asciilifeform]: in the specific case of elfutils, only libelf is actually needed to build a recent kernel. perhaps some sawing would knock loose a few of those other deps too.
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-09#1005323 << yep, per sqlite website, "The build process makes extensive use of the Tcl scripting language"
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-09 00:58:31 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: I am shocked tcl is required for sqlite
signpost[asciilifeform]: imho the correct thing is to capture the dependency as-is, taking care to not introduce *unnecessary* cross-dependency by disabling optional features, and once captured as vpatches, lop off complexity as feasible.
signpost[asciilifeform]: perhaps one path would be standardizing an on-disk storage format with jonsykkel, such that both implementations eat/shit same format.