whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4hr of saltmines and did a trip to town where I got a multimeter, a mosquito net, groceries for the week, and opened a local bank account (I have to return to town on Friday though to pick up the debit card, I will adjust my schedule tomorrow morning.) I did 1hr 45mins of Spanish study tonight as well.
diana_coman: whaack: for next week's plan, list separately all those things that end up eating your days; it's getting rather tedious to keep searching in there for something other than saltmines, running around and various others really.
whaack: diana_coman: ok
diana_coman: whaack: any more spinning?
whaack: diana_coman: Yes a bit, but significantly less than the previous day i believe.
whaack: diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-08#1012261 <-- My understanding now is that Mateiu is the 'narcissist' and he is butthurt about 'discovering hypocrisy' of his father. He imagines it hypocritical for his father to write he was awed by his friend's "despising social discipline" years ago while today reprimanding his son for the ~same behavior. But I am still unclear as to why 'narcissist' is in quotes. My
whaack: guess (influenced from tlp dabbling) is some would characterize the 'despising social discipline' behavior as narcissism, but narcissism is something deeper/different.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-08 12:50:21 diana_coman: as to the last sentence, think of who in there would "discover hypocrisy" and then be all butthurt about it.
diana_coman: dorion_road: just pay more attention to word-changes, that's all; it's ...surprising and in this context boring is better really; (you did once before too).
diana_coman: whaack: well, how is he a narcissist if he cares that much about... his father's opinion of him rather than, you know, about himself?
dorion_road: diana_coman thanks, will pay more attention.
whaack: diana_coman: Let me see if I get this straight. The larger point is that those who act as though they don't care what others think are going to be angry when they see what they consider to be hypocrisy of their idols. Since despite their pretense they are actually trying to live to be [what they imagine / is a convenient interpretation of] the person their idols would like to have a beer with. Their 'discovering hypocrisy' is them
whaack: realizing they are not living up to be that person.
diana_coman: whaack: well yes, it's the telltale sign of the whole pretense.
diana_coman: and the "inevitable", "who could have predicted" result of it, too.
diana_coman: whaack: do you have all the computer components now?
whaack: diana_coman: No I am still waiting for the parts to ship. The delay is because the RAM needed to be ordered from pcgamingcr's supplier. Their rep gave me the excuse that the order from the supplier is taking extra time since I ordered around black friday.
diana_coman: sucks; ok.
diana_coman: whaack: what exactly are you going to read though for 4 hours on this??
whaack: diana_coman: I was going to look for articles of people explaining their process of having put together a computer. And then I was going to figure out what I need to do to get my os (centos 6) installed with my hardware.
diana_coman: tbh if it's worth spending 4 hours reading, then it's by the same logic worth spending another half hour summarizing and publishing it; but I have a rather hard time imagining what you get out of just-theory-reading, it's a practical skill after all.
diana_coman: isn't that best done when you can already ...do it though? I mean what, you look at them now and then by the time you finally get the parts you forgot anyway most of it?
whaack: diana_coman: Yes it makes sense to move that until the parts are in my possession. I can update my schedule and replace today's task with going over trinque's published sources. (Tomorrow's will be replaced with going to town again to pick up my debit card.)
diana_coman: for that matter in general, why so carefully-theoretic-only about all of it really; sure, theory is fine and useful but only if put to practice too.
diana_coman: whaack: yes and moreover *standing up* trinque's bot too; read the code, annotate it, but ALSO stand it up after that, what
diana_coman: it's not some artefact to worship-but-not-touch, what.
whaack: aha
diana_coman: so update those tasks and do something with that bot too; it'll make for more interesting review too, anyway.
whaack: diana_coman: okay will do.
lobbes: diana_coman: I am ready when you are
diana_coman: lobbes: cool; do you have something more concrete/detailed in mind re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-08#1012295 ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-08 20:01:05 lobbes: diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school.
diana_coman: you've been around for a lot of time but most of it you've been so elusive that overall there's surprisingly little all that clear from you, you know?
lobbes: hm, yeah I know what you mean on the surprisingly little
lobbes: well, I think I'd benefit from some kind of structure, but I am not exactly clear on how much.
diana_coman: heh, 3.5m wide and 5.95 recurring tall; that's not something to know exactly clear upfront, lolz.
diana_coman: lobbes: to start from somewhere though - what do you want from here?
diana_coman: as overall result I mean.
lobbes: diana_coman: I think I could benefit from a sort of sounding board; the issue I keep having is thinking I'm on the right track when I'm not
diana_coman: how/when do you find out you "are not" though?
lobbes: when I communicate what I'm doing I suppose
lobbes: and others with experience weigh in
lobbes: perhaps I just need some plan that I stick to that keeps me from ceasing this communication like I tend to do
diana_coman: hm, that you were supposedly addressing (and that's how this here took a break iirc) simply by publishing/talking more though; it doesn't seem to have worked/been enough; so how about you leave off for a minute the focus on "what do I need" and tell me where you want to get too.
diana_coman: to*.
lobbes: okay. /me takes a second to think
diana_coman: take your time.
lobbes: diana_coman: I think where I ultimately want to get to is a situation where I have greater ownership over my own life. Right now, I really don't. I've made some steps, but still, I am a slave to the saltmines, I have epsilon working capital, and I also cannot code really
diana_coman: that sounds more useful already.
lobbes: tmsr has given me many tools with which to help me towards that, but I am still fumbling on how to use many of the tools effectually it seems
diana_coman: lobbes: so how did this come about really? ~all the context I have on you is along the lines of "he's been stuck for years on the comfy path to boiled-frog, snapped out of it at close-to-last-moment, didn't have much support/advice/something to lean on to extricate self"
lobbes: diana_coman: that context summary is pretty accurate. I have snapped out of it, but now am in a state of "wut do next?"
diana_coman: re fumbling, it's quite possibly because of the actual depth of those tools - there's much more to them than it seems and if you have no idea, it's not quite working, yes; it reminds me of my rather-interesting-learning-to-ski moment but sadly it's Romanian only lol.
diana_coman: tldr: I had no idea but went willingly with friends who promised to "teach me"; they taught me how to put the equipment on and then pretty much shoved me down the slope, lolz; at the end of the day, down a black slope too; I...survived.
diana_coman: anyway, back to you lobbes, mind if I ask you a whole bunch of questions?
lobbes: lol, now I wish I could read Romanian. Sounds like a good tale
lobbes: (well I wished I could read it before, but you know what I mean)
lobbes: diana_coman: fire away
diana_coman: lobbes: what did you study for all-that-debt anyway?
lobbes: diana_coman: I started in computer science, but switched after about a semester to business management. While I did (and do) have an interest in business, I wagered it was a quicker/easier path to many Inca-salary-pellets
lobbes: It was, too. I exam-took my way through the whole thing
lobbes: much like I did for public school before
diana_coman: well, that clarifies the "can't code" and possibly a whole lot of the "can't quite use those tools properly", you know?
lobbes: diana_coman: absolutely.
lobbes: I was just smart enough to be very stupid
diana_coman: so you piled some learning-debt on top of the money-debt, after which you went ahead and found someone to also eat up those inca-salary-pellets?
lobbes: yes, that is correct. Which I let happen for about 8 years; did not save any money during this time (save for my ~1.7 btc)
diana_coman shakes head.
diana_coman: lobbes: now I wonder just where are you exactly otherwise, hm.
diana_coman: what did you learn from that business management?
lobbes: diana_coman: a lot of useless nonsense for the most part, though I enjoyed statistics and a few others
diana_coman: lobbes: what work did you do?
diana_coman: and what "few others"? be more precise please, it's quite hard to pin anything down as it is.
lobbes: diana_coman: I also liked calculus, accounting, and my economics classes. There were so many mandatory pantsuit ones though ("environmental responsibility" etc) that I checked out a bit
diana_coman: fwiw you do seem to like very-neatly-and-clearly-defined-sorted-categorised-stuff, yes.
lobbes: diana_coman: for work, I started out doing ETL work, migrating business data into the backend of SAP ERP. It was a consulting firm
lobbes: I cut my teeth on SQL at that job, but that's really the only language I was exposed to
lobbes: I stayed in that line of work for about 6 years until I got my current gig as an "excel jocky" (which I've been doing for about 3 yrs)
diana_coman: does that pay better or why the switch?
lobbes: diana_coman: pay is better, yes (even though I'm doing much easier work; that's charlotte for you though)
diana_coman: tbh from my (very limited, granted) experience with "jobs", the more mind-numbing it is, the better paid, at least up to some ceiling ie within a certain context, yes.
diana_coman: lobbes: thing is, it still seems like it's eating the best part of your time&energy; how much time do you actually have left anyway?
lobbes: diana_coman: time left each week after saltmines? probably about 20-30 hours depending on errands and such
diana_coman: hm, they don't... show for real so far, something's weird there.
diana_coman: 20-30 hours per week is quite a lot really so either it's not really that or you don't make very good use of them.
lobbes: it may be a bit of both of those.. I also am noticing I have a poor grasp on the time I spend each day into each activity
lobbes: and a poor recollection on what I spent in time in the past
diana_coman: well, usually that works well only if actually measured; if you rely solely on memory, it will always lie to you, there's no way around that.
lobbes: it is true that I have not been measuring my time spent
diana_coman: lobbes: you had on your blog all sorts of plans, for escape and some re selling that house and so on; there's a. no follow up on those so - where are they? b. unclear if you made them because "gotta make a plan" / "wtf to do???" or because "I actually want to do this"
diana_coman: so at b: which of those is it?
lobbes: diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill)
lobbes: it seems I ought to resolve those things first before I make any jumps
diana_coman: hm; did you study in your home town? I gathered you did move a bit about the US but not exactly when/why/how far; mind going through that? (there's a point to it).
diana_coman: if anything though, understand that there isn't really every any "ready" for anything as in ticking a list of stuff off upfront and that list being also actually useful; it's just not how it works
diana_coman: ever* not every, ffs.
lobbes: I started out in a small town in the Cod; went to a community college there for first two years of school. Then moved to the western half of the state to go to a 'state school' for last two years.
lobbes: After graduation I couldn't find any work around the area, but I had a buddy out in northern Ohio who was able to get my foot in the door at that consulting firm doing the ETL work.
lobbes: moved out there and stayed for 6 years; kinda hit the ceiling in that area and heard the salaries were higher in Charlotte NC, so I picked up and moved there
lobbes: but each time I moved, I had something 'lined up' first
diana_coman: aha.
diana_coman: lobbes: did you live any time outside the US?
lobbes: diana_coman: no not at all. I did visit the Dominican Republic for a week (got to see the 'real' bit because I was with Dominicans, so it was a good experience), but that is the only time I've even left the US
diana_coman has brushed up on US map.
diana_coman: lobbes: of all the things going on around tmsr, what appeals to you the most anyway? and really appeals, not the "oh, it would be so NICE if I did this"
lobbes: hm, I'ma think a second on this one too
diana_coman: lobbes: add to the thinking: how would you define/quantify "I want" ?
diana_coman: so there's at least some more to think of, lol; take your time.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: thank you btw for all that info; I can certainly see why/how you make an excellent guide to a place, seriously.
lobbes: diana_coman: re: what appeals most, I think that what keeps me coming back is the fact that I have never in my life been able to articulate/work through my own thoughts as well as I can after spending these years interacting with actual humans. I don't know of any other place on the planet that helps me do this to same magnitude
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It is a pleasure. Lots of little nuggests piled up in the collection while evaluating how much of the place we just might be able to capture.
lobbes: It is the process itself that appeals to me most, I think. There's this trilema I can't find right now that has that Newman quote "It is the education which gives a man a clear, conscious view of their own opinions and judgements... It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought to detect what is sophistical and to discard what is irrelevant."
lobbes: My actual schooling did not do this for me, but tmsr does and has
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I think that's quite it - you pay a lot of attention to a lot of things, basically documentation at its best, or I don't even know how to better put it; I'd guess it has to do with the journalism side but since I'm not all that knowledgeable on that, I can't fully tell.
lobbes: diana_coman: re: quantifying wants: can you do that? Wants are always changing
diana_coman: lobbes: you are looking for john henry newman
diana_coman: lobbes: yes, you can and no, fundamental ones do not change that easily really.
diana_coman: but look above, you said you wanted to sell the house and to travel
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-12 17:04:09 lobbes: diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill)
diana_coman: I doubt you actually want it atm though; you'd certainly like to, yes; but not want to.
diana_coman: poor English even gives a clue there I suppose, in that a "want" is essentially a deficiency/lack/state of need, isn't it?
lobbes: diana_coman: I see what you mean re: fundamental wants not changing easily
lobbes: diana_coman: I literally just looked up etymology of "want" and that is exactly what I saw "deficiency, insufficiency"
diana_coman: at any rate, the way to quantify a want is simply by what you are *truly willing to lose/give up* in order to fulfil that "want"; it's always like that, defined by the negatives.
diana_coman: well, *you* are the native speaker, what.
lobbes: ah that negative space again
diana_coman: all sorts of negatives but yes.
lobbes: diana_coman: do you know how much English I've learned from Trilema though? :P
diana_coman: ahaha; no, I don't; how much? (and anyway, trilema's not mine :P )
lobbes: diana_coman: I know not yours, but I mean, non-native speakers are always schooling me in English
jfw: re 'want', I recall learning this heavier meaning only later, as in early school I was taught about 'wants vs. needs' with 'wants' being more the 'would like to haves'
lobbes: poor US schooling, you know
diana_coman: lobbes: eh, stop blaming others/the environment/the year/the phases of the moon, will you? you are not 15 anymore.
lobbes: diana_coman: you are right. I will cease that behavior
diana_coman: jfw: heh, and how did you learn that heavier meaning anyway?
lobbes: it is on me
diana_coman: lobbes: out of the work/tasks/directions around here though, what interests you? I get it that conversation and general interaction with actual people is (naturally!) what you want and like most, sure; anything other though that speaks to your interest(s) more seriously?
jfw: diana_coman: not sure specifically, I had heard the usage perhaps in older sounding text, looked it up at some point
diana_coman: oh huh, older sounding text; I can see what you mean; and gah, I'll feel 83 again.
jfw: if speaking well makes you feel old, I can't help there :P
diana_coman: jfw: ahahah; and I thought you had some wrecked schedule to set back on track :P
diana_coman: (but no, it wasn't a request for help at all; simply a statement of a fact.)
jfw: diana_coman: I do, though keeping up was part of it.
diana_coman: jfw: heh; you're always welcome of course.
jfw: :)
diana_coman: lobbes: did I lose you somewhere?
lobbes: diana_coman: nah I'm here. processing
lobbes: diana_coman: The tmsr os work interests me because I think it could help me improve my overall computer literacy. Plus I think the dorion/jfw combo has some chance of bringing in money (the republic is indeed lacking profit centers). I would like to help out in that aim in some capacity
diana_coman: so always-very-rational-apparently, you know?
lobbes: plus, I am interested in continuing improving my current things (the auctionbot, mp-wp bot)
lobbes: diana_coman: what do you mean? Isn't being rational a good thing?
diana_coman: at any rate, I suppose dorion_road would be rather happy to hear there's one man more rather than less; and the project certainly has both a huge need for people and a lot of potential, yes.
diana_coman: lobbes: heh, it's ... not the only thing, it never can be, that's all.
diana_coman: lobbes: what do you make in the end of the lordship and castle thing anyway?
diana_coman: (if you prefer re rational, there's always that "too much of a good thing".)
lobbes: diana_coman: hm, idk if I fully grok your rational point yet (but I will ponder it in parallel)
lobbes: diana_coman: re: lordship castle thing, can you expound a bit?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-18 14:06:12 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-18#1002885 - because you were going at it on *one leg only*; in short, you knew what you needed to do but you didn't care to do it and both those things matter, you can't just cut one out and pretend that the other takes over both functions.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-12 17:57:02 diana_coman: so always-very-rational-apparently, you know?
lobbes reading thread
diana_coman: lobbes: you went this year back and forth through "I'd rather give up lordship"/ "no, I wouldn't"; "I'm better off as a knight" / "ugh, I like being a lord"; "I have/will make a castle since I'm a lord"/"wouldn't quite ask for a deed for it, hmmm"; what do you reckon now exactly, regardless of labels?
lobbes: diana_coman: ah now I gotcha. Yes, I was quite concerned about all that until MP underlined the turns concept for me and I re-read his article
ericbot: (trilema) 2019-09-25 mircea_popescu: it'll benefit the nooblets immensely if they seriously spend some time groking the "turn" thing. there's a time for everything ; and for most things that time isn't NOW.
lobbes: so now I'm just focusing on improving; not trying to care about labels
lobbes: because the label is just a pointer to someone who does things anyway
diana_coman: well, the label is either a burden or a recognition, depending on where you actually are.
lobbes: makes sense
diana_coman has literally told a uni prof "your saying that I'm a professor now does NOT make me a professor!!"
diana_coman: he was shocked, lol.
lobbes: lol, I bet
lobbes: diana_coman: brb need to answer a saltmine call
diana_coman: lobbes: all right, ping when you're back.
lobbes: diana_coman: okay, I'm back
diana_coman: lobbes: wb; anyways, I think I got at least a better picture of you after all this, so here's to some clarity.
diana_coman: lobbes: listen, there's also that old promised series - whatever happened to that?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 05:05:52 diana_coman: lobbes: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/the-next-phases-of-escape/?b=wasting&e=#select - fwiw, it's very aptly put but also very sinful; one of those things for which you'll really have to do penance if you haven't done it already.
diana_coman: 3 months, look at that.
lobbes: diana_coman: you got me on that one
lobbes: ahem :P
lobbes: diana_coman: I was trying to focus 100% on getting the mpwpbot out, but now I have time so I'll make a plan to get that article written
diana_coman: lobbes: there's no such thing, no.
diana_coman: lobbes: listen, if you want on, I'm willing to try and help you; I gather you are fine with that pledge because you will need it, yes; and it will take some closer reporting & follow up by the looks of it.
lobbes: diana_coman: yeah, this is a point on the putting off the article. There really isn't such a thing as '100% focus' on anything
lobbes: diana_coman: I would be honored, and if you are willing to help then I am willing to learn (also willing to take pledge)
diana_coman: lobbes: well, for starters the 100% on ONE thing is more of a luxury rather than anything and a. it's not all that productive really b. rather rare in practice.
lobbes: this is true
diana_coman: lobbes: all right; then start by writing out your plan for next week on yh by this Sunday; feel free to write some review of your time in tmsr so far too, it will be rather instructive I'd think; for next week you certainly have at the very least 1. a penance article of those long-ago-promised 2. concrete plan re figuring out the ebuilds; with time & deadline too, please; and start actually measuring your time at least for starters, ...
diana_coman: ... to figure out what is going on for real as opposed to what seems to be going on.
diana_coman: lobbes: moving forwards, it would seem to me that atm you are rather staying where you are; and as such, you should then at least give some thought to actually making the most of that; so I'd expect some of that to show in your plans - if not for next week, then for the week after.
diana_coman: as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too,
diana_coman: lobbes: any questions there? or anything else?
lobbes: diana_coman: understood, and I will do so. I'll probably spend time re-reading our convo and linked threads/etc. If I have further questions I will let you know
lobbes: diana_coman: and thank you again for this help, I do appreciate it
diana_coman: lobbes: cool; and you're welcome.
jfw: I think I'm hearing a decision there among the "I will if you will"s so congrats both & welcome aboard lobbes!
diana_coman: oh huh, is it not clear? hm, lobbes, is there something unclear?
lobbes: ty jfw!
lobbes: diana_coman: all clear on my end
diana_coman: lobbes: cool then.