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mp_en_viaje: neways, anyone having something to say on that (or any other) matter, they're welcome to do it on the blog.
mp_en_viaje: shocking, i suppose, but in the end, it's what we've got.
mp_en_viaje: what i'll do is, come the 15th ima sweep the address into one of the web wallets and pay the fellows from there (at their own risk).
jfw: mp_en_viaje: would you like to schedule a continuation on the wallet effort (on which I've quite appreciated your role) once I've got my V ducks in a row? I can offer the same time Tuesday.
jfw: re GNAT, it occurs to me the better question is not "what does mp_en_viaje have handy" but "what am I going to test and require of the user and support by explaining at whatever level necessary?" Which is not a question for mp_en_viaje at all as stated.
diana_coman: jfw: no, it wouldn't solve the problem at hand, indeed.
jfw: I mean, I could easily say "use this gpg command and look for this message to verify, then if that succeeds run this patch command", I tested all that, it will work, but I don't perceive it to solve the problem at hand.
jfw: later mp_en_viaje, thanks for the guidance.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: since it looks like I've some zipper debt to catch up on here, I'll ask - do you have GNAT available on the system you intend to press on? Because that's an indirect dependency here, but I think I can avoid it if need be.
diana_coman: it does at that; and my "starter" thing there is precisely a stopgap; that comes...miraculously handy at times but still apparently not worth checking upfront or something, huh.
diana_coman: jfw: why don't you take the zip, do the test run and then you know and can tell ?
jfw: diana_coman: I'm going by the first three comments there, starting from spyked, http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/10/v-tree-and-v-starter-v2/#comment-7012
jfw: well there is http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/10/v-tree-and-v-starter-v2/ but looks like there's some fix not yet incorporated into the starter, meaning... circular dependence on V to get the fix
mp_en_viaje: invented whatever, iirc i just recognized the importance of shit other people came up with. but more's the point : you sit there "ready for sex" but you don't know where your zipper is or how it opens ? "any way!!!" ? wtf how are we to satisfyingly copulate here ?
jfw: That I'm misusing the tool you invented and haven't fully tested a better process?
jfw: I confess I mostly run 'patch' by hand, but v.pl modified for keccak or any other supporting same should work.
jfw: hey, I preserved as much of the history as I could
mp_en_viaje: ahahah what the fuck.
mp_en_viaje: alright. so then it's really gscm and gbw-signer that i want, the first being what, your hand-rolled mathlib ?
jfw: It does not, in the sense that you can supply the inputs from whatever source you wish.
jfw: lol! perhaps the offline part is fine after all
mp_en_viaje: this premise is contrary to the other premise, a secure system is specifically one that doesn't do everything.
mp_en_viaje: otherwise you will find yourself stuck trying to somehow make the red machine also include lasers, "just in case it needs to protect the owner from rubber hose cryptanalisis".
mp_en_viaje: so don't you try solving the grave problem of the user being entirely surrounded by a sybil inside the secure code. let him worry about that outside the box.
mp_en_viaje: hitler essentially lost the war by making ever bigger tanks. "bigger is better". wel... it sure as fuck makes a better target...
jfw: er I mean, the absolute view point is interesting, which I guess is that ...the sybil case is not interesting?
mp_en_viaje: yes, "if one is surrounded by a sybil". do you know the story of the man who made a submarine so strong, it'd have withstood even falling off a cliff ?
mp_en_viaje: see, this is what i mean above : you take a very absolute view, which happens to be inadequate. "how is the secure machine to know" is not an interesting problem in the absolute sense you contemplate it.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: yes. I don't think I'm confused in the suggested way: can't information be public but still sensitive to tampering?
mp_en_viaje: as an extension of the miner-upon-holders attack that resulted in the original bitbet death.
mp_en_viaje: but yes, the principal problem with "self-baked" tx is that it is in some cases possible for someone to re-write the tx such as to, for instance, take your inputs as fees for themselves.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: the gasp reflects that there are ways to mess up even the offline signature computation.
mp_en_viaje: in other words, i think your premises, not here, but in general, your ~manner of thinking~ is broken, in that you confuse very unlike things.
mp_en_viaje: jfw, there's nothing to trust. what am i trusting ? that indeed address x holds y ? this isn't the sort of thing that requires trust
jfw: If it is acceptable to you to install new software on a machine with the private key, and to trust the inputs from somewhere online (possibly correlating from multiple sources), then we might have basis to continue. (catching up...)
mp_en_viaje: the problem of security is distinguishing public from private information. the fact that address X holds Y is not even controversial, but eminently public info
diana_coman: jfw: does the above mean that the "offline" part includes trb?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 18:56:30 jfw: Moving on though: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959066 - I'm honored; was spinning a bit on "but what if it fucks up and zaps more coin than I've ever laid hands on??" but yeah, can't wait for another life, it's about time
mp_en_viaje: i thought the pile was established already ; or else what is the gasp in http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959145 ?
jfw: The main fusing as far as I see is that it can't even be established what your pile of coin is without trusting at least one online machine
mp_en_viaje: anyway, thanks for going through it with me ; i hope the exercise might've been informative to you as well.
mp_en_viaje: well, if they're fused at the hip so to speak, i don't think it would.
mp_en_viaje: well i dunno. let's see, again. what i'd like to do is produce a broadcastable tx such as to pay the fellows in question out of the pile of coin i have.
jfw: I suppose I'm the one making assumptions then. Should I have started a node up by seeking again to establish which pieces you needed?
mp_en_viaje: so then why did you list it ?
jfw: ah, sure; but I'm perhaps lost at where you're seeing the node as part of the secure system, because yeah, not so secure if net-connected.
mp_en_viaje: you see how these aren't comensurate at all ?
mp_en_viaje: it's one thing to say "well mister... no secure systems made before this date are practically useful anymore, because they must include this mb, and so it's practical to make NEW ones, including it". it is ANOTHER thing to say "your secure system must actually be always-on connected to a net interface and via trb at that"
jfw: THough the whole implementation needing to be typed manually in one line of awk/bc is perhaps the bigger block atm.
mp_en_viaje: it maybe provides you the same sort of benefit.
mp_en_viaje: it provides me, for instance, the knowledge that among the things that need fixing in an "eventual pgp implementation" such as will never likely be, a typo finder'd be quite useful. i even know HOW useful, by practical, real, lived measure.
mp_en_viaje: i'm not saying whether this is reasonable or not, but it is, in its context, justified as described. it's part of something, it lives somewhere.
mp_en_viaje: by extension from this -- and i am not mincing words when i say CULTURAL TRADITION -- i expected our adventure today would be rather similar, "this is the thing for the red machine, and these are the things you'll have to type in it : privkey, txid, txcount, so on".
mp_en_viaje: now, i didn't do this because "i absolutely needed to", obviously. i chose to do it, for instance to keep my harem in good shape, and informed, connected to the world such as it is, immersed in reality as it were. i believe in such things.
mp_en_viaje: this takes time, typos occur, there's even a script to check lines individually because obviously gpg is too dumb to mark WHERE an error likely lies in a broken pad.
mp_en_viaje: then a response would come out, and she'd type that.
mp_en_viaje: the ~reason~ they were there was that now and again i'd break out the red machine, which is an actual machine, and a slavegirl would sit in front of it, and type, by her pretty little hand, meaningless strings, from the black machinery connected to y'all and everything else.
mp_en_viaje: i dunno if you've noticed, but irrespective : at some point while i was travelling, there were half-hour-ish delays introduced in various processes, such as me upping myself. i even mentioned these in the logs specifically now and again.
jfw: There are two parts, one online and one offline. That awk program requires inputs. These have to come from somewhere.
mp_en_viaje: i mean... i dunno how to put it, you can do the job of producing raw tx by awk and bc in command line, and i don't mean lineS, i mean one fucking line, though it may run long.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-09 22:26:10 jfw: mp_en_viaje: do you have a specific goal in mind for Thursday's wallet work? Do you also want to use the online part (I would imagine so but could technically be done without)? If so, note that it takes about a day to scan the present blockchain once fed the address(es) of interest, and requires a TRB node. If you wish to also send the rawtx using it, as would be most proper, we'll also need that
jfw: mp_en_viaje: you had specifically referenced the signer part, but sure, and that's why I followed up with http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959219
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 18:59:37 jfw: Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install?
mp_en_viaje: so it'd be fair to rewrite http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959149 rather as "can i assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with no less than 64GB RAM, at least 1 TB HDD that must be SSD, at least two cores and, gcc. v, trb, curl etc, of which trb'd best be up to date" ?
jfw: Its additional disk usage is proportional to the number of addresses you tell it to watch plus the txes and outputs affecting them.
jfw: right you are... I did assume the V part, huh. gbw-node requires less resources than bitcoind itself, but does require bitcoind.
mp_en_viaje: now then, is gbw-node a node, in the sense that it'll want to eat a metric ton of ram and piddle blockchain vomit on the disk at such a massive rate as the "too small" mb blocks require ?
mp_en_viaje: well, gcc doesn't know what to do with genesises, so there's a gap.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: I didn't think there was such a thing established, indeed, hence the question
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 18:59:37 jfw: Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install?
mp_en_viaje: jfw, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959149 << was this more a "can i assume you have a complete republican computer, as per the [not yet written, let alone become part of common culutre] recipe" ?
jfw: The installation recipes are at package/README in each tree.
jfw: I haven't got an intro article out yet (sorry diana_coman) but genesis for the parts are at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/v/ : gscm, gbw-signer, gbw-node.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: I'm available should you still wish to have a look at the wallet.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-12 01:31:41 dorion: sorry for the busted lines. mp_en_viaje, diana_coman, does eulora use python for anything ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 21:26:33 mp_en_viaje: this is of course my problem ; you can do it elsewhere cheaper / better / whatever, i'm the last dood to get in the way of any such a thing.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959363 - I *thought* there was something deeper being said in this thread that I wasn't grasping.
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-12 dorion: just gave the latest article a second read. seems like he's saying, "you all could be men, but for whatever reason you're not and I've had enough of the retardation to interact with it further. perhaps me walking away is what's needed to wake you up."
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-12#1020639 - I wrote that in #o cause I thought, "voice will be lost in here any moment now." but then I thought, "maybe that's the immaturity you have to kill to begin with."
dorion: trinque ftr I very much appreciate what you're conveying in your series which is why I want to both talk about and see it continue. I'm not ignoring it, but I'm also not ignoring the mandate to support the implicit clients. how much are you taking the latter into consideration in what you're building ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-12 00:37:25 trinque: I propose you delete that list, and you write another. In the new list, write down only the items that will get the machine to boot, and allow the user to edit and rebuild the OS.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959478 - gales linux covers that today. I don't doubt it can be slimmed substantially. nevertheless, the take away from the first thread was it ain't enough.
dorion: sorry for the busted lines. mp_en_viaje, diana_coman, does eulora use python for anything ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-12 00:13:55 trinque: what's python even doing there?
dorion: he only genesis'd irc client, yrc is in python. jfw will be the first to tell you he'd rather neither were in python, nevertheless they
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959474 - the first reason is the current gbw-node is in python. the second reason is t
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-12 00:13:46 trinque: ok, so what rankles my ass about your goodness list is you have items at wildly different levels of the tree all flattened together like they're of the same importance and same level of the ontology.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959473 - I'll be the first to admit the tree can improve and my ability to improve it can improve. I erred on publishing and being clear it was a draft cause it had been delayed long enough.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-11 23:58:52 trinque: it can be used to build and improve itself. the end.
dorion: from there, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959472
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-11 23:58:37 trinque: for the record, my measure is "self-hosts"
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959471 - my measure is reaches the point of supporting the implicit clients within a reasonable time frame based on where the clients are presently.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-11 23:57:29 trinque: if you want "builds crystalspace" to be the purpose towards which we're reaching, might as well install ubuntu.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959469 - can I assume you've read http://trilema.com/2019/the-tmsr-os-implicit-clients/ ? Eulora is right there.
dorion: trinque thanks for the feedback.
trinque: I propose you delete that list, and you write another. In the new list, write down only the items that will get the machine to boot, and allow the user to edit and rebuild the OS.
trinque: the "big dream" approach does not work, which is why I started simply, and proceeded outward.
trinque: this is a wall of hubris, my friend, and sorta flies in the face of what I was trying to convey with the series.
trinque: what's python even doing there?
trinque: ok, so what rankles my ass about your goodness list is you have items at wildly different levels of the tree all flattened together like they're of the same importance and same level of the ontology.
trinque: it can be used to build and improve itself. the end.
trinque: for the record, my measure is "self-hosts"
trinque: if you want "doesn't have batshit bashism" to be the measure of which shell to use, idem
trinque: if you want "builds crystalspace" to be the purpose towards which we're reaching, might as well install ubuntu.
dorion: ^^ mp_en_viaje jfw bvt spyked diana_coman and any other parties interested in tmsr os ^^
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-11 02:03:07 trinque: because the final post is little else than gathering the selected items into a source tree, wrapping them in a build process, and cutting a genesis.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959436 - I've been working on a list of what's needed. Here's the very rough draft of what I have so far.
dorion: if you've made progress on the selecting and organizing into a source tree, why not be satisfied with publishing that and getting feedback ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-11 02:03:07 trinque: because the final post is little else than gathering the selected items into a source tree, wrapping them in a build process, and cutting a genesis.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959436 - this should be broken down into multiple articles and conversations. you're going to go through the process of genesising several components before we thoroughly discuss what's actually needed ?
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959435 - that busybox will go a long way, but is only part of the puzzle. which compiler to use and how to support graphics for eulora are two examples of major open questions that are far from being answered at present.
jfw: If we're adding runit to the mix on the busybox side, then it becomes fair to compare their 800+ LoC init.c to my 30-line one.
dorion: please correct me if I'm missing something, but how do you draw "pretty opposed" from the above ?
dorion: jfw can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he knew busybox includes runit. since he was already used to using daemontools and daemontools is the predecessor to runit anyways he went with that.
ossabot: (trinque) 2020-01-24 jfw: trinque: I was ignorant of mdev, looks like just the thing!
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-11 02:01:59 trinque: dorion: yes, I haven't had time to complete the final post, but last I checked y'all were pretty opposed to using busybox-only for the userland.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959434 - hm, in that conversation there were 4 points where it was noted Gales goes outside busybox : 1) MAKEDEV instead of busybox mdev , 2) jfw's genesis of pdksh vs busybox ash 3) jfw's 47 line init vs bb's and 4) daemontools instead of bb's runit.
jfw: it's impossible to keep track" to quote its init.c. One thing I take from this is one's not likely to get a good sense of the code quality of a given part from a random sampling of the overall tree.
jfw: that's 1). 2) what do you mean by "busybox-only" - because far as I know you can't possibly mean exactly that, it doesn't have an mkfs or make for example, let alone a compiler. Do you mean, "system which selects components outside busybox only if busybox $version does not contain them"? I'll note that busybox is an amalgam of code from a variety of sources and, ahem, "Adjusted by so many folks,
jfw: trinque: I'm also tardy on jumping back into the OS fray, for one thing my wallet project has dragged out way longer than I naively expected, but I look forward to doing so shortly. But in hopes of advancing the discussion a bit: is there a particular merit to busybox-1.31.1 ? For all I know it's an entirely different thing from the older one I've been looking at and we'll need some common basis
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 21:27:21 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959341 << really, there's no value in this prequel. we sit down thurs see.
trinque: so it's not only the smallest candidate, but it can be miles smaller still
trinque: it's that we can cleave shit out of busybox source permanently trivially by using the config flags.
trinque: I'll point out again for the logs that my picking busybox wasn't just "whatever, it's small, and it's all there"
trinque: because the final post is little else than gathering the selected items into a source tree, wrapping them in a build process, and cutting a genesis.
trinque: dorion: yes, I haven't had time to complete the final post, but last I checked y'all were pretty opposed to using busybox-only for the userland.
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, get the history in, complete from http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-27-mar-2016 onwards first, then we sort the rest out.
ericbot: Logged on 2020-03-11 01:03:20 lobbes: I just incremented the old one from the stanlogger
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959403 << as an aside for log posterity, I mis-stated this: the version number represents the block height at the time of the vpatch
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: okay, sounds like a plan then. So, I guess for my part I'll go back and see what I can do about a sane history-backfill process.
mp_en_viaje: honestly i think what i'll go for will be : (using trilema.com for current trilema and trilema.net for pizdi's box), hve a mysql server run on both, have t.com update both rather than just its own, and have it read the day's logs at some point tomorrow. this way people can use t.net for any purpose except write a comment.
lobbes: as for the sync script, yeah that would be interesting. As for the frequency does mysql do triggers on database changes?
lobbes: hm, I am not familiar with federated tables myself. I'd need to look into them a bit.
mp_en_viaje: there could be a sync script, but then how often does it run
mp_en_viaje: on the other hand there exists the obvious "have logs category on trilema.net, have trilema.net use trilema.com for everything (including comment post say). which is about as derpy as it sounds.
mp_en_viaje: technically there exists mysql "federated" tables ; but everyone seems to hate them. prolly for no reason.
mp_en_viaje: now that said, i'm still thinking about how the fuck to get mp-wp working on two machines best.
lobbes: yeah, I was misunderstanding your process there
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 19:08:58 lobbes: Instead, I figure why don't I just cut out 2,3,4,5 and instead I just alter my 1) to pull logs from my Postgres database in the same format of your input into your backfill process (which has already been proven to function to spec)?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959355 << but the format i use is as you can see, mysql insert statements, one line per day.
mp_en_viaje re-reads the init of this convo to figure out wth the problem was
mp_en_viaje: honestly, the stuff pizdi's dumping in the test blog is perfectly fine. why can't you just dump the missing logs into her ?
lobbes: I just incremented the old one from the stanlogger
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, did you do a buncha testing on this then ? all sorta lines, changes in say topic, etc ?
mp_en_viaje: quite the number
lobbes: command is '!y' for the time-being
lobbes: mp_en_viaje, agreed (btw if I ever do make it to CR real coffee will be one of the first things I try)
mp_en_viaje: what's the bot called, anyways ?
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, it seems unavoidable, otherwise we'll just be doing this chasing gaps forver, like achilles.
mp_en_viaje: omfg, the coffee in this country. idiot germans come in and buy all the best sorts anyone can be arsed to sell them ; then you go to germany and can't have a decent cup of coffee. i just can't set it down.
lobbes: mp_en_viaje, this is a point. You mean we ought to just get the bot up and producing logs first and worry about the history later?
mp_en_viaje: specifically, until we have the process such that the bot actually produces logs, reliably, for each day, it makes 0 sense imo to even start this discussion. because what, so we do it YEY AGAIN, and then there's yet another gap once we're done ?
mp_en_viaje: i for one'd have expected the structural definition in the comments'd be more useful than the actual dump file ; but in any case, there's more problems even higher up.
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ << item's always been avaialble there, since nov. logs8.txt say
mp_en_viaje: the ~problem~ is though that these are 1-logday-per-line humongo files. can you even meaningfully process it ?
mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2019/introducing-the-logs/#comment-132537 < reference
lobbes: mp_en_viaje, hm, I can't find a reference to a log8.txt in that discussion, but if that was what you used for your input file then yeah definitely I'd want to see that
mp_en_viaje: now, what you really want is a look at say log8.txt, which is what in the end was finally used,
mp_en_viaje: there's entirely no point in reproducing that.
mp_en_viaje: but the point is : the whole logstory thing was simply me wranglin gwith the xchat historical format most of the early logs were in.
lobbes: mp_en_viaje, yeah that was the discussion. I think the script that ended up working for you was in this comment
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, so listen, you talking about this discussion http://trilema.com/2019/introducing-the-logs/#comment-132410 ?
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, im digging through the stuff here, because i suspect there might;ve been more to it all than just that, so a sec
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, so you want a sample of the logstory file ? lesee here
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 13:51:09 diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: to my mind there wasn't anything new/unknown/controversial in there really; (or I'd have moved it to #t earlier anyway).
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959336 << i dunno, all i saw was BingoBoingo continuing the tradition of derp whereby he's gonna ad-hoc some nonsense. at least he's moved on from doing it in gpgballs.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959341 << really, there's no value in this prequel. we sit down thurs see.
mp_en_viaje: this is of course my problem ; you can do it elsewhere cheaper / better / whatever, i'm the last dood to get in the way of any such a thing.
mp_en_viaje: there ~is~ of course substantial cost involved in i dunno, keeping a capitalized company on the books while alf derps about re-doing the same mistakes on the chickenfeed he's found in his couch cushions. there's similarily a substantial cost involved in maintaining all these trilema herramientas
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 13:38:48 jfw: mp_en_viaje: does the idiot list include me this time? I could try to be more mindful of when a discussion should be moved or started here
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959329 << mindful nothing. look, if it works work it, there's nothing wrong with that.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-09 22:57:45 lobbes: Also, are you good for tomorrow night or were you looking for doing this during the day? I'm slaving in the mines tomorrow but my night is clear. If need be I may be able to weasel a work-from-home day though, so I'll check back when I wake up tomorrow
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959239 << Okay. I'm about to run out for a quick errand but will be back in about an hour. I'll be free now for the rest of night afterwards
lobbes: Instead, I figure why don't I just cut out 2,3,4,5 and instead I just alter my 1) to pull logs from my Postgres database in the same format of your input into your backfill process (which has already been proven to function to spec)?
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-02 16:41:29 mircea_popescu: ima try putting the first few in and we see (i hope for eg you do the sed 's%"%\\"%g' | sed 's%*%\&ast;%g' escapings, yes ?)
lobbes: To lay it out, my convoluted process last time of getting you the data you needed was: 1) Pulling logs from my Postgres database to a flatfile 2) importing that into mp-wp's MySQL database 3) getting a mysql dump of *that* 4) altering said dump with e.g. sed escapes, etc. then finally 5) I give it to you
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.
ericbot: Logged on 2020-03-10 15:18:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959221 << well, do you have the item currently working somewhere ?
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959236 << I have the actual bot working, yes. However I do not any type of trustworthy process to backfill the historical logs. I mean, I *do* have my python mess from last time, but I'm proposing we forgo that mess this time
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-03 00:22:13 dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958692 - you had said the next would how V enters the picture. Is that still the plan ? did you expand and roll the spec you had in mind in there ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-02 09:13:50 mp_en_viaje: trinque, the problem with your proposal is that the article isn't yet loaded at that point.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 13:12:20 mp_en_viaje: is pondering this wonder. wtf are you idiots doing over there ? srsly tryina come up with all this shit on your own, who knows, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, then i go read it on qntra and what, maybe i agree, maybe i don't, in any case ~after the fact~, at which point as chance dictates, either i sever the link or not ?
dorion: hey trinque, minding the previous point and earlier point and questions, why don't we set a time to discuss where you're at and what the next steps are ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 12:50:01 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020424 << i dunno how much you recall of the 90s, ie back when mailing lists was a thing ; but almost nobody will even read some agitated flailing of some dude who subbed to post it.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959292 - I don't recall for not having been there, but makes sense they operate with a wot.
jfw: **The consequences if it were incorrect are mostly that the tx wouldn't validate ...
jfw: As for the private key, since as I understand you want to spend from an existing one imported from some other wallet implementation, I should note that it can be imported in hex or WIF format, however, as in TRB, "compressed" keys aren't presently distinguished. It's possible to use them through some code tweaks, though it's presently all one or all the other.
jfw: The consequences of its being incorrect are mostly that the tx won't validate - EXCEPT (I recently realized) for the value field, which could be used to subvert the fee and change computation.
jfw: The function of the 'online' code I referenced is to index this information and get it in the required format; you could instead use block explorers or whatever you please to get the information and it's none of my business. Or I could provide it, since you gave the address.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: to my mind there wasn't anything new/unknown/controversial in there really; (or I'd have moved it to #t earlier anyway).
jfw: As best I could determine for my spec, this is an unavoidable consequence of the design of bitcoin transactions. Specifically what's required: address (as an identifier for the private key from a set of multiple; if you just have one then of course this is trivial); txid, output index within that tx, and value,
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959326 - for a moment I thought this was re the graphics work, keks.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 12:26:36 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959219 << the functioning i'm looking for is that given some inputs (such as a privkey and txids) your program spits out a tx as is broadcast on the network.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959234 - this is approximately what it does; the delta is that a bit more than just txids is required.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: does the idiot list include me this time? I could try to be more mindful of when a discussion should be moved or started here
mp_en_viaje: on the other hand, it doth offer quite the neat solution to the "wtf are you going to do with that lordship thing THIS time" conundrum.
mp_en_viaje leaves off reading #ossasepia ; i guess in principle there's nothing all that wrong with it.
mp_en_viaje is pondering this wonder. wtf are you idiots doing over there ? srsly tryina come up with all this shit on your own, who knows, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, then i go read it on qntra and what, maybe i agree, maybe i don't, in any case ~after the fact~, at which point as chance dictates, either i sever the link or not ?
mp_en_viaje: they're liberated from having Brawndo poured on top "because it's what plants need", and they're also liberated from NOT having water poured on top, because "the secretary of energy" ahs "never seen no plants grow out of no toilet."
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 BingoBoingo: jfw dorion: What does it mean that these things have been liberated? What have they been saved from?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020492 << two things. in the positive, the sort of non-improvements like "supporting unicode" ; discussion with such a moron recently in trilema. in the negative, actually adding useful things that the pantsuit do not add, for whatever reason ("other priorities", "hateful to protected groups", "illegal", whatever nonsense).
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 jfw: ah there was also Eucrypt, part of which was a liberation of gcrypt from Werner Koch & co. right?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020491 << iirc it was unrelated, dudes were just squatting the place with their spaghetti-crapola.
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 jfw: I think it's the right sort of bother: given all the code I ~have~ read or written it seems an important distinction as far as which category someone chooses to trust from me.
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 jfw: My plan is to start next week with creating a 'gypsy code signing' key then I suppose get the list together and into some kind of order.
billymg: that's what i was telling the local: they are making demands without willing to pay. if they want lifeguard on duty they'll be at a luxury resort paying 5x
mp_en_viaje: da fuck tour group dun have their own lifeguard.
mp_en_viaje: i wonder when they're gonna start pestering bars, "we want to come and spittle in a beerbotle for three hours, but you gotta have driver."
billymg: mp_en_viaje: yeah, we had them explain it. and it was just: need lifeguard on duty or else no swimming. didn't press them enough re: dangers of empty pool because by then they had backed down
mp_en_viaje: dumb cows sitting on their cheesy taco all day long coming up with "standards"
mp_en_viaje: so hacve them explain it.
billymg: he said he's never heard of this before, in his years of organizing these visits. but it was some "new policy" to "eliminate risk"
billymg: mp_en_viaje: yeah, the conversation with the tico was productive, he was also throwing up his hands in disbelief at their request. i coached him into telling them to walk after realizing they really have no other options (other hotels aren't gonna empty pools / don't have lifeguards on duty, and tour group dun have the budget themselves to hire the lifeguard)
mp_en_viaje: billymg, if the concept is "drunk kid wanders in at night", which is what seems the least-dumb construction available, it's still indeed the case empty pool more dangerous.
mp_en_viaje: billymg, ah. so build your backchannel with him. "wtf is this about, can you explain it to me ? i spend money to build pool so they have fun, they want it epty ?!"
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: eh, read the whole, approx spelling is not a virtue, no; neither is a disqualifier esp online
billymg: probably, i'm interfacing through a nice and capable tico who's been organizing these groups of americans and doing business with this property / previous owner for years now
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 dorion: jfw you subscribe to it first so you can then reply ? is that how it works ?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020424 << i dunno how much you recall of the 90s, ie back when mailing lists was a thing ; but almost nobody will even read some agitated flailing of some dude who subbed to post it.
billymg: to which i said fuck off, and they then said, find just dun let em swim
billymg: their first request was, get this, empty the pool because we don't want the risk of the kids (college) drowning
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 diana_coman: jfw: the minds that discard the message because of less than perfect spelling though might be better off enjoying their fence.
mp_en_viaje: billymg, fucktards, how the fuck are they getting coronavirus in nicoya, from what, the cows ?
mp_en_viaje: find out what sorta troglodytes you livr with in any case, ie whether they'll shoot any roamning dogs for instance.
mp_en_viaje: "even if you don't personally use the internet, it's like having electricity. you can go a whole life without electricity too! but from experience, a) you won't once it's there ; and moreover b) if you ever sell, it sells for more."
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 12:44:07 mp_en_viaje: if you get it going, can defo be on your sale list. "none of those crappy 5kbps netlinks, we here have fiber. come do some work undisturbed while the sluts splash in the pool", sell to execs.
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959276 << this for sure. almost lost business of a tour group that wanted to book all the units for two weeks in late march because no decent internet (ended up losing the business because zomg coronavirus instead)
mp_en_viaje: you're doing them a fucking favour, wtf.
mp_en_viaje: that can be follow-up. "hi, i got this property right next to yours, and we're thinking of pushing the x to draw optic fiber close. would this be something you'd like to get into ?"
billymg: their support / commitment to subscribe to fiber (the collecting signatures bit)
mp_en_viaje: if you get it going, can defo be on your sale list. "none of those crappy 5kbps netlinks, we here have fiber. come do some work undisturbed while the sluts splash in the pool", sell to execs.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-10 12:39:58 mp_en_viaje: from experience the best way these things go is if a large-ish group of landowners around a geographically reasonable node point ask them for it. maybe see if your neighbours wanna join ?
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959265 << that's a good idea, and gives me a chance to meet the neighbors
mp_en_viaje: from experience the best way these things go is if a large-ish group of landowners around a geographically reasonable node point ask them for it. maybe see if your neighbours wanna join ?
billymg: i then followed up with one of their technicians who visited the property and he said it was doable and we just need to go through the RFP / proposal process
billymg: so will be at my expense. whaack talked to one of their customer support agents who didn't really know what it would cost but thought roughly $2-5k for the laying of the cable
billymg: (i need to get on my lawyer here about filling out the RFP)
billymg: they are willing to put together a proposal for doing so
mp_en_viaje: they dug fiber where you are ?!
billymg: yeah, compared to the ~$375 / mo for Kolbi's enterprise fiber offering it seemed like a good deal
ossabot: (trilema-hanbot) 2020-03-03 billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-02-08#1001053 << update: my girl has been corresponding with american data through this contact and they are now putting together a proposal for a supposedly dedicated 10/10 connection at $150 a month (proposal will be to determine cost/timeline of install)
billymg: mp_en_viaje: yup, she put us in touch with american data which has been the best lead so far http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-03-03#1001505
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 diana_coman: ftr re clock, my scripts don't bother with "end of task" - there's no end to anything, only start of next thing whether that's break or whatever; since time is spent anyway, the start of a new thing is by definition the end of the previous.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020383 << funny, because... BONES WORK THE SAME WAY. kekekekex
billymg will bbl - irl chores for the day
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-09 diana_coman: spyked: well, no boost dep is certainly a gain; and yeah, I'm sure that the earlier the version the less of a monster it is; that being said, I'm either really getting old or something but I can hardly see the point of >10k LOC for what can be done precisely as wanted through <1k lines of cmd line tools, huh.
billymg: i've got a temporary internet solution now as well (cellular LTE via Movistar) as we work on getting the real thing
mp_en_viaje is checking out what's so great bout them o logs!
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-10 dorion: BingoBoingo, http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014?b=that.%20Well..&amp;e=able#select isn't selecting for me.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-10#1020533 << isn't selecting for me either. the reason is that the text isn't "that, Well" but "that. <a href=blabla>Well". select dun work well with a href boundaries.


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