asciilifeform: there was 1 implementation.
mircea_popescu: the item doesn't even exist implemented at all! still today, as then. lego blocks implementation would beat this situation.
mircea_popescu: otherwise the result is that you leave it unsignalled for a coupla years and it dies out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, because they have to attach to the item, so the item can then be followeds.
mircea_popescu: but the specific sequence is required, that's what communication is, that's how signalling works. "actually... i was going to do x for y, but can't, and won't before z". that's gotta be -- either in the comment section of the linked march 2016 report, or in the comment section of the linked contest, or i guess unideally here. but explicitly.
asciilifeform: and 'uses the components of elgamal' and 'leaks like a sieve if we use koch's routines, via side channel' required additional pedanticism somehow ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu even showed symptoms of having actually read the c-s orig paper, and presumably knew that it is a numbertheoretical cipher.
mircea_popescu: none of these make it.
mircea_popescu: the important parts in order of importance : 1) distress call ("god damned it") ; 2. failure discussion "i can't do this c-s i was going to do for the cipher comp". these must be present as teh header.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-26 16:34 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-26#1529877 << timing can be 'ceilinged' and it solves problem. but i am still chewing on the problem of enemy being able to determine who is speaking to whom by deriving the public keys. (this is trivial with rsa, and i've been working on answering the q of whether is is also true for c-s)
a111: Logged on 2016-04-19 16:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: c-s uses the basic parts of elgamal, hence the investigation.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-19 16:35 asciilifeform: to which i bolted a cramer-shoup thing, and started out thinking 'i'll reuse the elgamal piece, c-s is after all a variant of elgamal' but nooooo
asciilifeform: subj was beaten to death in the logs, neh
mircea_popescu: what happened to "god damned it, i can't do this c-s i was going to do for the cipher comp because no ffa" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cs is numbertheoretical cipher, just as rsa, requires sane bignum.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the linked item earlier is from when asciilifeform dug out and studied koch's proposed sidechannel countermeasure. proclaimed it nonsensical and useless, and bit the bullet, 'must bignum from scratch.'
mircea_popescu: "The S.NSA entry is to be an implementation based on Cramer-Shoup. As it turns out, Cramer-Shoup has never been publicly implemented by anyone, at all."
asciilifeform: ( clearly marked in the src per se, likewise, e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/mpi_second_cut#L5350 )
asciilifeform: incidentally the work was reported in s.nsa broadcasts. sanitized-mpi is a s.nsa product.
asciilifeform: i will stand and say, asciilifeform did exactly the Right Thing, prepared , with proper care wartime ersatz ( mpi ) for if ( as turned out to be the case ) proper item ( ffa ) takes years.
mircea_popescu: going to construct a v tree (on the basis of her sig) that builds into eulora crypto lib.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mpi&search= << it's in there, that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: a then, that's getting patched.
mircea_popescu: yes, well, there's no practical way to negotiate ad hoc two such copies if indeed they exist. logical move is to syncronize by patience, wait for it to appear see if it's any good.
asciilifeform: if the item actually ends up (as it appears to be going) in eulora, imho is the proper thing to do, rather than 'source is this-here paste'
mircea_popescu: but anyway -- i see no impediment ; or can wait for diana_coman 's published item on her blog sign then if happy, or.
mircea_popescu: why didn't you even yesterday is the more productive question here. what exactly changed since today ?
asciilifeform: i'm quite willing to sign the copy which i personally studied, even today
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between socializing (which yes, is the free exchange of valuable bits of knowledge / information) and work (which is the DIRECTED etc)
mircea_popescu: however. if i don't have a neck to squeeze when something blows up no work was in fact done. that's the writing/reading distinction, code is enacted by reading, in the speciffic v sense of the term.
asciilifeform: somehow the 'i dug up an algo, by apparently sane author, and determined that it runs in constant time' -- not work ?
mircea_popescu: it is not to say that one (me, s.mg, diana_coman, everyone) does not benefit immensely from shooting the breeze among the intelligent&educated, as opposed to out in the cold.
mircea_popescu: see, here's the problem : work === "hey mp, here's the genesis & tree for the crypto item eulora needed ; now as to s.nsa's fee...". !work is anything-not-that, including ~very helpful~ side comments.
asciilifeform: i'm quite willing to genesis it to attest to the origin of the item from my personal archive.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-18 15:35 asciilifeform: fwiw there is a quite short ada serpent existing, passes the test set ( and branch-free ).
asciilifeform: afaik not yet signed. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726147 is where the item was communicated.
asciilifeform: i cannot attest to the strength ( afaik nobody can ) but can to the constanttimeitude, for instance.
asciilifeform: in the properly-read sense.
mircea_popescu: this is the iffy part with "work", that it bears definitions that often diverge from what subjective feeling's like.
asciilifeform: i dun propose that this constitutes a 'winning contest entry'. but take exception to the 'no work.'
mircea_popescu: the situation thereby is that the serpent to be used in eulora ORIGINATES with diana_coman , its reader.
mircea_popescu: no but see, we use different terminology. i do not assign anything to "code written". the source of code, to my eyes, is he in the wot who has read it.
asciilifeform: as in, the code per se
asciilifeform: from where did eulora get the snippet currently in use ?
a111: Logged on 2015-01-17 22:38 asciilifeform: or, alternatively, like the choice of 'aes' over the stronger but 'slower' 'serpent' cipher, it was merely orders from lizardhitler.
mircea_popescu: no work has not yet been the avenue to winning.
mircea_popescu: there's a whole train of "here's some efortless stuff" in there, if you've noticed, "x could be used [but i shall do no work]".
mircea_popescu: i put a comment in ; seared with hot irons, and hopefully alongside the indolence and self-indulgent idiocy of all days to come.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-18 15:19 mircea_popescu: in other items of republican interest : eulora is at a stage where we have to set down what we'll use for sensitive data encryption (such as for instance the privkey files). i don't particularily wish to use aes ; anyone wants to contribute to this emerging spec ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 22:30 asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform will submit ffa.rsa to be judged in mircea_popescu's symm cipher contest, supposing the latter is still running
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745676 << if you mean http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/ the point of it was specifically so as to have a tmsr item to put into http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726131 ; as that failed and we decided to go with serpent, the only possible closure to that offer is that the republic failed to deliver.
phf: there was a hairy bug in search, that didn't consider all the possibilities. though now there's a highlighting issue..
mircea_popescu: captive ball slingshot. like the captive bolt pistol.
mircea_popescu: in other "what to do with your human manatee" ideas, https://img1.etsystatic.com/186/0/7005175/il_570xN.1334362571_ob2l.jpg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if they had any sense it'd be one addy per email neh
davout: also in case BingoBoingo hasn't already left for the other hemisphere I wish him safe travel!
asciilifeform: trinque: plox to make the necessary correction
asciilifeform: in other 1333337lulz, 'Claymore's Dual ETH miner's remote management interface is prone to an unauthenticated remote stack buffer overwrite that can be triggered by simply sending an overly long api request to the management interface resulting in an unbound `(v)sprintf` style buffer overwrite when trying to log to file or console.'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'The amount we asking is 0.05Bitcoin' << lol!!
mircea_popescu: in ongoing ro lulz : https://www.cotidianul.ro/greu-mai-intelegem/ (basically, the deal seems to be that romania will get ~34k sqkm / 3,5mn or so extra folks in a box labelled "moldavia" in exchange for continued friendship ; the CAER parallels are striking)
asciilifeform: frugal but imho not The Right Thing.
asciilifeform: the one with 'star wars'
mircea_popescu: where is the vvg!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the principal problem is that no good text formats for video.
mircea_popescu: i don't really think it's much of an issue altogether, except for the part where it fails to find a line for ascii search.
mircea_popescu: aaaah. the bit is a chinese version of that romanian curse the french speaking chick learned phonetically for her role in occident.
phf: it's fundamentally two different approaches, bvulpes's thing relies on a lot of pre-written code that comes with postgresql, mine, for better or for worse, is custom written. the approach that postgresql uses is much more elaborate than what i'm doing. (for example they have explicit lexing phase both for search and for indexing, that takes care of language specific break up of sentences)
mircea_popescu: they have a point. no need to trade === win.
mircea_popescu: the other problem i'm confronting is that i don't now remember what the chinese even meant.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-04#1746271 << there's a buncha clones. ( all in heathendom, however )
phf: this is because word break doesn't understand that 和 and 我 are words and no punctuation is required for breaking it up. there lies dragon territory
phf: but at the same time for whatever reason http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22learned+a+chinese%22
mircea_popescu: plaintext either.
phf: mircea_popescu: i'll investigate a bit the specific mechanics of failure in this case, but there are certain situations where unicode search doesn't necessarily work
mircea_popescu: worst source of breakage in the entire field,. this youtube crap.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-11 16:18 mircea_popescu: in other news, today i learned a chinese! it goes like so : 和我一起，那是你的婊子掴你进监狱，并与所有的民族疯人院
phf: regex in question http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ce04k/?raw=true (the 12 seconds overhead comes mostly from the fact that ppcre is a dog, so that regex is not actually being used anywhere in production)
phf: it takes about 12 seconds to walk the log for all the messages containing "http" and then narrow it down with a somewhat hairy regex that i found somewhere some time ago
lobbes: As for processing urls 'going forward' I got a bot sitting in chan that snarfs urls as they come and keeps it in a 'to-be-processed' database. Still, having redundant data sources couldn't hurt. I would definitely be interested in url streams
lobbes: phf: Guess I should've inquired beforehand; would've saved myself some work with the historical walk :P
mircea_popescu: WHAT is the internet even for, seriously now.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. on Trilema - A ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/>; 北回归线在线阅读(第10页)_必看网: <https://www.biikan.com/xiaoshuo/read-21772_10.shtml>; 幽默、笑话、故事收集: <http://www.baiyun.net/jokes/humor.html>
mircea_popescu: oh oh the byline ?
asciilifeform: 1 of the rotating headers on trilema is chinese, neh
mircea_popescu: phf actually the url rss is a fine idea.
phf: i have some internal feeds that, for example, return messages in terms of "since=<id>", so by tracking what was the latest message id that you processed, you can have incremental processing
a111: Logged on 2017-12-04 08:43 lobbes: in archive news: through leveraging a bash script comb for urls appearing in teh logs on btcbase (hats off to phf for the impressive historic span), I was able to compile a list of ~142000 links dating back to August 2012.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-04#1746081 << i can, by the way, give you (or anyone who wants it really) an ongoing feed of urls, which might be a bit saner, than trying to wget a bunch of html pages, and then attempt to reverse them
asciilifeform: scatha: re qntra etc -- try reading the logs ?
scatha: asciilifeform: thanks, just checking :) hope all is well over there, saw qntra down and a strange chinese message on trilema
asciilifeform: ( and i suppose i could nitpick, 'USG.StrictlyAnyOtherCAImplicitlyTrustedByAllUSGbrowsers manages to lose a public key' oughta read 'private key' )
asciilifeform: ( otherwise exactly yes )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/lets-revisit-the-google-is-irrelevant-discussion/#comment-123791 << it's 'crl' btw
mircea_popescu: well, tell him for me that there's nothing wrong with obscenity in principle, perhaps with a link to a choice image from the logs
asciilifeform: the original logic is that i want it to appear on every page of http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ .
mircea_popescu: are there ?
mircea_popescu: there's humongous difference between gates, entirely intellectually nil, and buffett, intelligent ox.
asciilifeform: only the lung rot
mircea_popescu: much like asbestos roofing worker works to make roof, ends up with mesothelioma in the process.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-01 23:19 mircea_popescu: guy was a major... well, like bill gates, or khodorovsky, however you call the faux business men produced by governments. except in ro, so he's talking 1e7 rather than 1e10
asciilifeform: it isn't as if being buffett is something that were dropped from the sky by malevolent martians on unsuspecting people. it's a thing the 'sufferers' work for decades for, compete with other candidates for politruk ( or for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1745249 , depending on flavour ) , it is very much a conscious choice
mircea_popescu: "why should we operate this tumor liable to kill this patient in 5 to 10 years when his circulatory system will do him in within 18 months at the most"
mircea_popescu: hey, most prostate cancers go untreated because they are SO SLOW that by the time they appear, the victim is already marked for death from other causes.
mircea_popescu: so here : if usg.rich is NOT everywhere.rich, then all portions of it that actually are not must be cut off. yesterday, not tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: and this is the definition of cancer : growth not universally useful.
mircea_popescu: this is like rhino saying "i'm not sure whether my horn is useful in general or not really". well... if it is cancer, you want it ablated asap.
asciilifeform: ( i suspect that in the general case , it isn't ; but don't specifically know )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: separate q is whether usg.rich is actually convertible to somewhereelse.rich
mircea_popescu: the empire assigning universals to itself and its own failures to non-itself.
mircea_popescu: he takes the sentence "i am rich here as i'd be anywhere ; and i can't buy anything for it here unlike anywhere else" and turns it into "i am rich here because usg made me rich ; and i can't buy anything here or anywhere else because non-usg". whether he verbalizes that "non-usg" as "the most serene republic" or "black people" or "islam" or "patriarchy" or what have you, it's still what it is.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-04 18:00 asciilifeform: then why exactly did he not move, if he had with what.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-04#1746199 << because exactly as i say : he assigned universals ("the sun rises in the morning! BECAUSE STALIN!") to the socialist state ; and the very disasters caused by that socialist state to imaginary "everyone else everywhere else". guess what, it WASN'T the terrorists that came busting down the door. it was... the socialists he worked for.
asciilifeform: then why exactly did he not move, if he had with what.
mircea_popescu: but they are dissolving. who knew that us real estate is worthless! o noes!
mircea_popescu: made WRONG assumptions about reality and the nature of the world vehehehery much in the vein of "just like the great socialist state "works for you" because you uncritically assign all the good it had no part in creating to it and all the ill it actually created to imaginary racists, misogynists and other terrorists."
asciilifeform: but then would be just a d00d, with arms and legs, no money, no skills, no wot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that d00d who has 'real estate picassos worth maybe 11mn and loans outstanding worth 12' is walking out of the reich a little bit after washington's monument grows legs and goes.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and also places where prisoners are forced to buy (yes) own gps collars << Now, this is everywhere but rent rather than buy
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> all asciilifeform can add is that you can tell where in usa there is a courthouse, because for many miles around there is an infestation of 'bail bondsmen', 'bond loans', 'bail', shopfronts. << Locally bail bondsman is far from courthouse. Local DA provides "cheapest" bail bond, and who gets arrested...
mircea_popescu: but i think the message is pretty well out : "mr/mrs/miss manafort can't defend themselves. what are you srtill doing in the reich ?"
mircea_popescu: now, dude married to lawyer and with lawyer daughter, ie, core of the profession, is being "indicted", as if this were even fucking permissible.
asciilifeform: all asciilifeform can add is that you can tell where in usa there is a courthouse, because for many miles around there is an infestation of 'bail bondsmen', 'bond loans', 'bail', shopfronts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the point i was perhaps understatedly making is that the LEGAL profession is now under attack from the red brigades. they fought the doctors in the court system for 30-40 years (whiole the idiot lawyers looked on, thinking they're special)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Since at least 1600's in algophone world if you trace it to debtor's prisons. Per Lafond's research into white slavery concept also present in acquiring prisoners for indenture and other servitudes
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: good q , how old exactly is the practice of 'bail'
mircea_popescu: american exceptionalism is getting raped pretty good these days.
mircea_popescu: this is the new us citizen pay class, "How deep in the red may you arbitrarily sign yourself, where may is used in the sense of must" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, so check out imperial poverty. manafort dude has "homes" ie real estate picassos worth maybe 11mn and loans outstanding worth 12 ? so he is "rich" because he's in the red 1e6 as opposed to poorer plebs only allowed in the red 1e4 or 1e5 ?
asciilifeform: there is this specific style of print
asciilifeform: bonus : the papadoupolos indictment didn't ocr because it is covered in archetypical millenialgurl handwriting
mircea_popescu: you see it everywhere, from the supreme court all the way down to obscure daycare http://www.27bslash6.com/flash.html (" He denied having the drive which means he knew he shouldn't have it here then it was found in his bag so I feel the punishment is suitable." ) sorta thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what they currently lack is the means to actually force anybody to use arsebook etc. but this as i understand is 'being worked on'
BingoBoingo: Ty, I just finished the check in for departure tomorrow
mircea_popescu: then it was exactly what SOPS likes, a meta-discussion.
mircea_popescu: this facebook thing... used to be a great bureaucrat's toy in the days when the inca was smaller and still struggling to infest medical profession. "supoenad records", some doctors mentally slow enough to imagine they held the only copy.
asciilifeform: and bonus 'altering and concealing a record, to wit, his Facebook account, with intent to impede the FBI's ongoing investigation' didjaknow.
asciilifeform: elsewhere, https://cryptome.org/2017/12/papadopoulos-005.pdf ( sadly dun ocr really at all ) one papadopoulos, being tried by one 'chief judge beryl a howell' , for 'obstruction' of the 'russian stooges investigation'
mircea_popescu: "Immediate family members are therefore personally responsible for substantial payments to the Court should Mr. Manafort not" << lulzy.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> if you want conformity your btc can still be cash, the fiat as well as anything else can still be... TANGIBLE assets. http://trilema.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/ << it's in there, dunno if it got lost in mists of time. << ah ty, existence of that thing slipped the memory
asciilifeform: i've nfi, maybe they connected his nuts to 220v. or maybe not signed at all, signed for him.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would he sign such a thing.
asciilifeform: Mr. Manafort, Mrs. Manafort, and their daughter ...' etc
asciilifeform: meanwhile in swamp dekulakizations , http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/lPzAc/?raw=true >> 'The Defendant will execute an agreement to forfeit ... Jobs Lane, Bridgehampton, NY: $4.00 million Baxter Street, New York, NY: $3.70 million St. James Drive, Palm Beach Gardens, FL: $1.25 million Fairfax Street, Alexandria, VA: $2.70 million ... owned by Mr. Manafort and his wife, Kathleen. The Baxter Street property is co-owned by
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the sagittarius of tmsr is mired in teh potomac swamps.
mircea_popescu: anyway, flew 1k km, missed target by 1km. perfectly in line with scud capabilities. kinda why it's not much used, either.
mircea_popescu: basically the claim here seems to be that "if they hit anything, they hit the body after warhead separation", which seems a satisfactory description of fact.
asciilifeform: re rocket, it is exactly same story as the 'iron dome' idiocy from last yr
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the riyadh bombing : the "scud defense" thing is particularily lulzy because the scud's chief characteristic is how inaccurate it is.
mircea_popescu: that'd be the drawback of longer spans.
mircea_popescu: and there's nothing wrong with a weekly rhythm of it either, gives reader chance to follow along.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform largely making the tune up as he goes.
asciilifeform: so there are not so many guides to crib, re how.
asciilifeform: afaik this kind of software item hasn't really been done since the 1980s magazine days ( i.e. where reader is asked to 'write the program' 'with' the author , rather than 'here it is, run, like a pig is fed' )
mircea_popescu: also lettuce announce there's going to be a nov-dec joint qntra statement.
asciilifeform: probably slightly faster towards the end, when there is less to say re adaism and only the algos need pedanticism
asciilifeform: only the source material.
mircea_popescu: ah i thought you had them all lined up
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these take several days of continuous sweat to write.
mircea_popescu: let me take this opportunity to point out to asciilifeform that his first item in the epic ffa write-up was dec 1st. this is dec 4th. wasn't it supposed to be a 1 hour apart publishing or what's going on there ?
mircea_popescu: let me guess, http://trilema.com/2017/lets-revisit-the-google-is-irrelevant-discussion/#selection-177.121-177.343 all over again, "president trump sat in front of a moonlit rock explaining how our system light that rock right out of tyhe air!"
mircea_popescu: in other machine-made lulz, http://archive.is/rdZnl : the title is "the comehack" for some reason, but the header is me walkin' with a newspaper wrapped machete in hand.
mircea_popescu: if you want conformity your btc can still be cash, the fiat as well as anything else can still be... TANGIBLE assets. http://trilema.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/ << it's in there, dunno if it got lost in mists of time.
jurov: mod6: ben_vulpes: have you decided about forked coins on foundation's address? should i report them, or sell, or they don't exist?
lobbes: to those curious, here's a plaintext dump of all the scraped urls (6 Mb): http://lobbesblog.com/archive/hist_walk.txt
lobbes: That list has been fed into the Archivierungsprozess. Gonna let it chug along and will report results.
lobbes: in archive news: through leveraging a bash script comb for urls appearing in teh logs on btcbase (hats off to phf for the impressive historic span), I was able to compile a list of ~142000 links dating back to August 2012.
BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/02/the-boingo-isp-tbi-november-2017-statement/ << Updated
BingoBoingo: Kinda why I waited to deed it. Gotta publish the statement with the open questions, let powers greater than myself comment.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo so why not have two rows line normal people. started at 1 0 then moved to 0 7842 then ended at 0 4990 << NSA and MG had not been notating fiatolade, so I assumed how to handle an open question. Will put together a leperolade line
asciilifeform: i think this is 1st unit to be publicly sold for heathen dubloons, danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: at least you get a blog post out of the expense.
mircea_popescu: well... if you feel like documenting it so i'm not the only one explaining how reddit is worth < than the slashdot's coupla mil, lock stock and barrel...
mircea_popescu: aaand in other extemporaneous hygienes, http://78.media.tumblr.com/18b2bb2808ca485783900574ea934b17/tumblr_nixiyswNN11u9sycbo1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron is it on the wiki btw ?
mircea_popescu: well, 1 is better than 0. it's not like there's 2 and i'm proposing one quit.
mircea_popescu: well so then.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure this guy will actually send you one if you pay him ; as opposed to the other one.
mircea_popescu: "the notion itself" is not a thing.
asciilifeform: the notion itself
asciilifeform: ( the verilog synth in particular)
asciilifeform: incidentally i know of at least 1 item that i use that still not depython3ated -- the lattice ice fpga thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: principal headache is in re bringing up ~new~ boxes, without gcc5+ crapolade leaking in; rather than keeping old ones going
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so why not have two rows line normal people. started at 1 0 then moved to 0 7842 then ended at 0 4990
asciilifeform: and yes 6 is being forced in via same mechanism as 5, i.e. they are methodically exterminating archives of source that built cleanly without 5, and replacing -- whenever possible, silently -- with new 'improved' .
asciilifeform: re gcc, recall also that it's been put on the usg hitlist, they would like to lead it to a level of dysfunction that will have naive folx welcoming its shooting behind the shed and replacement with Officially blessed clang-llvm
asciilifeform: gcc6? driven exactly like 5 was. by breaking perfectly-working setups, whenever and wherever they can get their hands on them
a111: Logged on 2017-02-07 19:35 asciilifeform: the ftmeade jargon, iirc, is 'nobus' ('no one but us'), in contrast with 'phuctor-style' discoverable hole.
mircea_popescu: "more secure" in the sense of, "against non-nsa attackers only"
asciilifeform: and forces newgccism machinewide (despite the boldfaced lie re 'can keep other compilers')
mircea_popescu: though i wouldn't pay much for the upgradist's hide. recall http://trilema.com/2016/internet-census-2016/
asciilifeform: (c++11/14/etc.ism is a rather half-hearted attempt to make '70% bugridden reimplementation' of ada, in cpp, as retrofit. iirc we had a thread a few yrs ago re subj)
asciilifeform: 5 had 0 incentives either, other than for the few folx who really yearned to use c++14isms
mircea_popescu: i'm guessing the gcc 6 branch lacks any sort of incentive exactly in the manner gcc 5 did, making this kind of measures necessary ?
mircea_popescu: is the idea here that "should you attempt to ask questions on stackexchange there'll be a crowd of politruks whining about it" ? or something else ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by the gentoo(tm)(r) people, naturally. helpfully announcing the final cement burial of whatever useful bits were still left on their www from pre-quisling times.
jurov: what's there to understand. want to run gentoo on gcc 4, you're on your own.
jurov: "The default C++ language version for applications is now C++14...means, however, that compilers earlier than GCC 6 are masked and not supported for use as a system compiler anymore."
jurov: https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2017-11-30-new-17-profiles.html " Please migrate away from the 13.0 profiles within the six weeks after GCC 6.4.0 has been stabilized on your architecture.
mircea_popescu: "Modularity and code reuse are, of course, A Good Thing. Even in the most trivially simple case, however, the CS/IT dogma of code reuse is totally foreign in the bazaar: the software in the FreeBSD ports collection contains at least 1,342 copied and pasted cryptographic algorithms." << of which none actually work, is the caper.
mircea_popescu: people generally laugh at flaubert for having spent however many weeks to discern if 20 or 22 degrees was "more adequate in his text", but the elided truth of the matter is that they who ~entirely~ lack the mechanism there used in excess are in a much sadder spot than poor ol' oncle g.
mircea_popescu: in fact, they don't expect language pushback (resistance of medium) at all whatsoever, and don't understand how to decode when the words are crying to the heavens their sadness in abuse.
mircea_popescu: all the foregoing aside (and much related to what you say) i suspect this is also a very specific vulnerability of the esl folk, in that they DONT expect the language to complain when misused.
a111: 2017-10-06 <Framedragger> yes but someone committing to the project without having the necessary time is not far away from malice, imho
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 17:13 phf: Framedragger: i was young and a bum, i recognized all these people because my entertainment machine would reinforce their presence for me. "oh jwz is talking. oh now it's ptacek. oh it's paul graham! squee". but they were always in a different category from say norvig or knuth or naggum. once i started doing and learning (i.e. painfully read knuth, rather than just have him on my shelf) i finally was able to grok the difference.
phf: this is apropos http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523303 but the subtlety requires continual refinement. otherwise you start letting it pass, and turn into one of them
mircea_popescu: but in any case -- ALL PANTSUIT!!! is reduced to a shortcut that is insufficient, and doesn't stand up to investigation. this is in fact so universal in them that it can function as identification. "why do you think X is bad ?" "because it's racist" "but what's that mean ?" "oh puhleaze! do we ~still~ have to ?!?!?!". yes, you do. moreover, https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/07/jezebel_proves_scott_adams_is.html
mircea_popescu: the first is how articles are born in the first place, half the time. because "lo! bad construct detected!"
mircea_popescu: the second is more than half tyhe time how trilema articles end up so long, those that do -- there was a shorter thing there that didn't hold, but for expressive rather than fundamentalreasons.
phf: do you see it rationally and then deconstruct it, or do you first experience the wrongness and then seek the source of it? because if it's the first one, then i'm possible lacking necessary tools, but if it's the second, then i just don't always get to the seeking out the source part
mircea_popescu: i can't be the only one dedicated enough to the craft to actually be bothered by such.
mircea_popescu: how does he manages to avoid the exception, you know ? "this enumeration... it doesn't work... what am i actually talking about ?"
mircea_popescu: shit happens to me ALL! THE! TIME!!!! writing trilema pieces.
mircea_popescu: somehow he manages to write that AND NOT at the same time throw an error. "wait... i... can't actually explain this ?!"
phf: despite the references to brooks, nobody's actually practicing what brooks advocated, so the name and the books are reduced to a charm. yet another cargo cult
mircea_popescu: but you see how this is EXACTLY the same problem ?
phf: right, i think perhaps the problem of this particular turn of phrase, is that he can't actually name what makes him a better than average programmer (like ascii's fits in head, or Principles, or), so he's reduced to a shortcut that is insufficient
mircea_popescu: even leaving the particulars aside, what you teach greenhorns is to BE LESS EXCITED!!! not "be less responsible".
mircea_popescu: i can't read it any other way than "my racing toolkit consists of duct tape, cyanoacrylate, and just-add-water wheel assemblages to be bolted down on any 2x2 inch flat surface you might wish".
mircea_popescu: if i were trying to teach the "greenhorns" in 1990s how to survive, i'd make them read eg knuth. literate programming. stuff.
mircea_popescu: phf i can't read it like that in the context of the three items that he offers as his tools of the trade.
phf: in the original it's "os install", the idea is automatic instead of manual provisioning. we practice it here
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oop-circa-1990s was a bastardization of 1970s-era narrowly domained ( cad, a few other ) item , picked specifically with 'this is promising for deskilling programming' item
mircea_popescu: what sort of piece of shit os is this whereby system breakage to the level where bsod is possible!
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would i!
phf: i missed a point re phk though. is the idea that "scripted os-reinstall" is a bad idea, or that it's insufficient?
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, he was at the fortefront of the whole "object oriented" "revolution" also, wasn't he.
asciilifeform: dunno that it makes sense to give any particular printolade-bubble overseer the distinction of a name and attributed agency. it's not unlike pinning the black plague on a particular, named rat
mircea_popescu: in fact, o'reilly has the unique distinction of having produced more crap per unit useful than ~everything known to man, including the anglican church, the various other protestants and so on