trinque: I did not yet V genesis a portage overlay (which would eventually become the *only* portage tree, after republican ebuilds are made to replace items needed from the gentoo official portage) pending a resolution to the thread on how to handle v tree fragmentation.
trinque: diana_coman tried to build a cuntoo per my recipe and was bitten by the upstream musl-overlay gentoo repository having shifted enough to break the build.
trinque: since we're discussing cuntoo in pizarro, and it's more generally relevant, I'm moving the thread here.
diana_coman: fwiw I grabbed the .c check script and ran it for peace of mind on eucrypt's patches with success
mod6: Lords and Ladies of the Republic, here's my "blog" post on the UTF-8 character found in genesis.vpatch, please review:
hanbot grew up along the san andreas fault, has seen a few windows blow out but not much more.
BingoBoingo: Back in the spring of 2008 my part of Illinois had a couple 5.x rumblers, and that is the limit of my experience with the things. For one however I was on the cantilevered balcony of a US standard apartment. Quite the ride.
mircea_popescu: anyway. no damage, just the excitement.
BingoBoingo: 5 is about the line for ones I have noticed in my life. Maybe there was a 4.X somewhere down the line.
mircea_popescu: i'd guess maybe about 5 or so. but the civil alarm sirens went off.
jhvh1: dpb_please_up: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: James M. Cain's original pulp and Raymond Chandler's treatment, together.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the classic one, or robert sheckley's ?
mircea_popescu: in other news, i've been working since last night at a rewrite of double indemnity ; which is coming along splendidly. kinda why i've been quiet.
mircea_popescu: nice work there.
mircea_popescu: lol. nothing like that mod6 , but just bear in mind that the response is about what you respond to, not the audience. just because ants drive you crazy is no reason to aim the howitzer at next ant comes by. it's NOT BIG ENOUGH. not yet at any rate.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/03/nsas-payload-for-the-phuctorable-mikrotik-routers-found/ << Qntra - NSA's Payload for the 'Phuctorable' MikroTik Routers Found
mod6: I'm 0-2 lately. I better lay off answering the door!
mircea_popescu: i don't know of many sites besides trilema that don't look like monkey work. it's become the web tradition somehow.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: worse, i actually had the typical savage's sequence of abandoned keyz, going back to '90s
mod6: I tried to go easy on him. It was the info people dug up on the site that threw me for a scammer.
shinohai: My apologies, I'm not exactly most nimble of fingers these days
mircea_popescu: anyway, you're too hard, too strong and too fast. bear in mind that the best steel cracks under shock and that you yourseld didn't have a pgp key before you made it.
mod6: the redditard bitcoin, maybe
asciilifeform: *then
spyked: and that didn't work for me for some reason. as for other potential problems... I used the firefox dev console, single-stepping through the js code and comparing between Trilema and my blog instance.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-12#1787606 <-- I got it to work for thetarpit, I had to solve one or two specific problems to make it work. one was to get the correct ID of the DOM subtree where the highlighting occurs (lines 43, 91 and 225 of http://deedbot.org/deed-506234-1.txt ) and another was to ensure that the recur function gets called on the correct subtree -- the original script doesn't always pass childNodes[0] as a parameter,
ben_vulpes: this falls squarely into the remit of security analysis, doesn't it?
douchebag: Could you send me over some of the primary domain names affiliated w/ the republic of some of the main assets?
asciilifeform: gone are the 'luxurious' days when we would get a fulltime ninjashogun every quarter!11
ben_vulpes: "oh shit, someone slap together a responsive order page, make sure that it says russia in big letters"
trinque: I'd like to know the cheeky bastard that invites him *after* Pizarro gets rolling.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: > any website found to host or otherwise sponsor material that supports terrorism will be suspended immediately without notice
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: I was gonna ask how La Whores are, but he probably wouldn't get the joke.
mod6: Alrighty then.
lobbes: Anyone else got trilema's fancy js-text-selection working in their version of mp-wp? I ripped the js directly from trilema.com and slapped it into my 'footer.php', but no dice thus far. Is there some trick I'm missing?
mircea_popescu: an ounce of setting up the bomb is worth ten pounds of policeman guts on the fences.
hanbot: well, by being sufficiently male in an otherwise maleless environment.
mircea_popescu: recall that iliterate nigglet that impregnated half the staff ? just HOW do you figure he did it ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, that was the point of the comment -- don't just go in, make arrangements. while syphilitic uncle sam is paying for the rent, you can have all the fun a dying empire could possibly offer
mircea_popescu: in other incomprehensible obscurities, https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/karen-de-le-carriere-brags-about-her-years-as-intelligence-operative-in-the-defense-department/
mircea_popescu: in other news, holy shit tuna is great here. $25 will buy you a kg of such fine fresh stuff as i've ever seen.
BingoBoingo: Possibru? I spotted frogthing walking with girl, thought about relaying the story on IRC then realized, this is what cameras are for.
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/03/11/caught-on-camera-a-very-rare-pepe/ << Bingo Blog - Caught On Camera: A Very Rare Pepe
mircea_popescu: i guess they were looking for a good excuse to go out.
BingoBoingo: Nah, that was a 2013 thing, the payment protocol turd Buttpay suddenly decided to try forcing
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo in other lulz, other than trying to push bitcoin crash as an implicit alternative, bitpay finally dropped bitcoin payments in favour of some nonsense "payment protocol" they developed in-house. << AHA, yeah the PRB v 0.9 thing
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : stash some bitcoin with a credible agent and go straight to club fed. as long as your "commissionary" account gets a few thou dripped every month/week, you can impregnate the entire population of "social workers"
mircea_popescu: chinese girls make 1-200. talk about middle kingdom resurgence, fifty years ago they made 50 cents also.
mircea_popescu: in other news, prostitutes in bangladesh make ~50 cents.
mircea_popescu: that is the point.
shinohai: Is anyone else that has used Bitpay gotten the message where you have to have a compatible btc client open to make payment? Last I tried it wouldn't let you copy the actual btc addy, you had to either scan a qr or let system open your client.
mircea_popescu: but hey, being able to inflict major business loss upon an idiot like that in a situation like that is the whole reason why one wants to be rich in the first place.
mircea_popescu: yeah. after years of trying to "establish" the usual bullcrap ("brand"!!!) they finally moved to the switch part of the bait-and-switch.
shinohai: The Bitpay thing is lulzy, they are charging a fee for BTC tx;'s and calling it a "network fee" instead of "this is some arbitrary fee we made up"
mircea_popescu: apparently they had nfi the trickle i was throwing their way constituted most of their business (or rather, more of the same http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/ hallucinations). should be fun to see what happens now that i'm turning off that faucet.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo in other lulz, other than trying to push bitcoin crash as an implicit alternative, bitpay finally dropped bitcoin payments in favour of some nonsense "payment protocol" they developed in-house.
shinohai: In Sunday morning lolz: https://ret2got.wordpress.com/2018/01/19/how-your-ethereum-can-be-stolen-using-dns-rebinding/
mircea_popescu: let's do some math. 170k people that's 90k females of which maybe 3-5k females aged 10 to 15... EVERY OTHER GIRL GOT FUCKED.
mircea_popescu: specifically, THOUSANDS of pubescent girls being gangraped, sold for sex and forced to lure their sisters/cousins/etc in a community that counts 170k...
mircea_popescu: aand in other http://trilema.com/2018/the-rivers-of-blood-article-or-the-lordship-list-fifth-year/ lulz, telford joins the lengthy list of towns in britain where the azn man has the whip hand over the white man.
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/03/10/receiving-a-guest-in-montevideo/ << Bingo Blog - Receiving A Guest In Montevideo
shinohai: No, I only do drugs *after* I get to the hospital.
BingoBoingo: Pls don't tell me a roof broke your leg trying to gabriel_laddel yourself about the rooftops
shinohai: I seriously do not understand how junkies function everyday. Feels like it takes me 10 minutes to type the reply it took me 5 minutes to formulate
shinohai: I'm high on morphine at the moment, forgive me if my thougtz arent so clear
lobbes: Biggest challenge for me was I had to figure out how to set up mysql for mp-wp via command-line (as I interact with my VPSen via ssh only). Turned out to be very simple once I did figure it out. Currently testing and tweaking themes, and then plan to post my own compendium cobbled from my notes once I get the thing into "production"
lobbes: in other new, I was able to erect mp-wp on my local test machine using hanbot's excellent guide for n00bs like me (I had never used ANY wp previously) >> http://thewhet.net/2017/10/a-compendium-of-possibly-helpful-stuffs-for-erecting-mircea-popescus-wordpress-with-nearly-free-speech-hosting/
BingoBoingo: That's just the nature of having a view from a tower
BingoBoingo: Well, Trilema is a sort of observatory for these things
mircea_popescu: heh. trilema was a "victim" btw, in the sense of seeing 10x as much "traffic" as usual.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/its-2018-but-the-average-guy-still-belongs-in-chains/ << Trilema - It's 2018, but the "average guy" still belongs in chains
mircea_popescu: it's something beyond fucking comprehension this. schmucks entirely understand the problem, ~pretend~ to be involved in solving it, will NOT ditch the fucking pantsuit trappings like they're sutured to their ballsac.
mircea_popescu: AND THEN!!! they go straight the fuck back to "paxum/payoneer/webmoney/they all suck"
mircea_popescu: (tl;dr : buncha discussion from 2010, "what is best payment processor ?" "oh paxum/payoneer/webmoney/they all suck", then someone posts about bitcoin and thread dies -- only to be resurected in 2016!!!! where some dood goes "oh, you must be filthy rich now" in response to the bitcoin guy
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other "it's not just the talent that's bovine ; the promoters are EXACTLY as fucking idiotic" news, check out https://gfy.com/webmaster-q-and-fuckin-a/994333-payment-methods.html
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
jurov: shinohai: send me clearsigned request, incl. date and whether it should be done always from now on.
mircea_popescu: ^ and wait until teh pantsuit realize what ~attacking~ the normal distribution implies.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/why-african-americans-can-never-excel-at-anything-relative-to-the-white-majority-they-cant-be-the-smartest-nor-the-poorest-nor-the-best-nor-the-neediest-nor-the-anything-else-est-not-ever/ << Trilema - Why "african americans" can never excel at anything relative to the white majority : they can't be the smartest, nor the poorest, nor the best nor the neediest nor the anything else-est. Not ever.
ben_vulpes home sweet home; to sleep for two days and then reports
lobbes: lulzy "Trade & Invest in top cryptocurrencies, ETFs and thousands of stocks. Trade currency pairs, Indices and Commodities via CFDs. Investing in the financial markets has never been easier"
mircea_popescu: in other news, etoro (lulzy online scam trying the "soft" approach) is STILL advertising ripple.
deedbot: lobbes rated phf 1 << barksinthewind.com, btcbase.org and much, much more. inquire within >> http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=phf
lobbes: hm, danielpbarron.com seems to be down. (though, mebbe he's taking the server to oklahoma too)
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: !~later tell jurov I wish to donate my Feb. Qntra shares to the Bitcoin Foundation, please to advise as to how to proceed.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 21:18 mircea_popescu: copa is cheap-ish and pretty good ; the rest are gringo airlines doing dumb shit like hubbing through us cities. which makes your voyage split 3/10 rather than 5-7 or so
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/lets-read-together-uncle-al-schwartz-hexadecimal-dependency/ << Trilema - Let's read together uncle Al Schwartz' Hexadecimal Dependency
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/ << Trilema - And in today's lulz, the obnoxious cocksucker.
mircea_popescu: "open source" for as long as the idiots are willing to provide free work to usg.scamdept.
mod6: In UTF-8 news, I've been working on a re-grind. There's a number of things I want to talk about, so I'm in the process of writing up a "blog" post on mod6.net about it.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-07 19:21 mircea_popescu: now less excuses, none of this "my pantsuit existence comes before the republic" ever again and more productivity. MUCH more productivity.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-07#1787167 << got it, thank you for helping to beat the pantsuit out of me. now I'll shut up and be useful
mircea_popescu: in these terms the infantile "i only want to solve problem Y defined as 80% of the actual problem" readily shows its infantilism. good and well that you want to build an os without a socio-political model ; but what you want dun enter into this.
mircea_popescu: the architectural model is particularly useful : building 80% of an arch, or in general whatever sub-unitary percent of the arch will not result in something that stays up. the span must be exactly covered, because a sub-span arch, no matter how well done in the parts that are in fact done, will nevertheless collapse under the weight of the absent portion.
mircea_popescu: this then induces two possible errors in aproach. the situation where the solution is over-span, which we generally call "overengineered" ; and the situation where the solution is under-span, which is pluriously referenced as jwz's error, but is not substantially different from http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=spreading+works or the airplane that can take off, and flies well, but can't land.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 18:59 asciilifeform: re the standard ffi, the lispm folks, as i understand, saw it as an instance of http://trilema.com/2016/unicode-is-fucking-stupid-the-definitive-article/#selection-187.80-187.399 , and i'm not convinced that they were wrong
mircea_popescu: meditation upon http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787343 yields the interesting result that problem spaces are not continuous. problem spaces are discrete, and there exists such a thing as problem spans.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 19:33 ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787249, this also, although I can work with /dev/urandom just fine. I just needed to turn remove the tty call.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, mazepath.com is certainly something for the archiving.
mircea_popescu: honestly i'd re-read it, showed the signs of a great novelist in the rough. rather clemens-like.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-30 04:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform who had that great story about the three dorks in a garage inventing a super-efficient engine over 20 years of playing around throiugh the process of miss-measuring torque ?
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 19:32 asciilifeform: was actually quite a feat, all of the various compilers were able to freely exchange data structures
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787367 << indeed. the sort of items that gag me from lambasting the item ; though they're rarely held up as major points by the proponents.
asciilifeform: oh hm was this the 3stroke engine
mircea_popescu: he was young, sent to write some article or w/e. the salient points were that this was a 2 stroke engine, and the doods were inferring power on the basis of torque but measured on a different circumference.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not readily. he spent 20+yrs flaming perpetuum-mobilists, alchemists, aetherists, etc., will need a bit moardetail to remember which piece this was
mircea_popescu: got a link to the al item handy too ?
asciilifeform: there's a (long ago) quite famous ru short story satirizing this exact thing
mircea_popescu: they have a book on torque measurements an' errything.
mircea_popescu: uncle al even has a portrait of three of these, making a super-unitary efficiency engine.
mircea_popescu: yes, but this "poor mastery of book learnin', relying on endless tomes of tico brache measurements" thing -- very much what the engineer started off as.
asciilifeform: problematic, there were people convinced that e.g. beaver, is 'also engineer'
asciilifeform: 'know the fool by his open mouth' or how it went
mircea_popescu: you know, incidentally, what is the old word for "' people to be ~instantly recognizable (from their output)" ?
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
asciilifeform: even aside from shitoshi, historically i've found 'microshit as mothertongue' people to be ~instantly recognizable (from their output)
asciilifeform: i'd compare it to english -- harmless to learn for talking to folx on the net, but just about lethal as a mothertongue
asciilifeform: in so far as anybody ever knew, there was not a second, nonwinblowz, side to shitoshi. microshit mind to the hilt.
mircea_popescu: notably, the question of "no wheelies on black ice without helmet" isn't decided on the basis of whether you survived ; but on the basis of whether anyone didn't.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 19:27 asciilifeform: to learn per se is harmless, supposing you're decently good at mental compartmentalization. asciilifeform for instance worx with high-pressure liquishit from undocumented guts of winblowz kernel, ~daily. perhaps it is lethal eventually, but observe, not yet dead. ( would you say it has visible effect on style of asciilifeform's publications to date ? would you know, re the winblowz, if asciilifeform did not confess it ? )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787356 << and yet we know in case of satoshi. there's at least one lost intellect of great promise in that cemetery.
mircea_popescu: ave1 i will say the "test harness for rsa/etc" is a very solid usecase for file-fed fg-emu.
mircea_popescu: but if you can't even answer "who's the java guy" gives it little hope.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 19:08 trinque: not that the world gives happy endings down any branch; we'd perhaps be loathing what lisp might've become as much as java, had it "won"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787348 << depends entirely who'd it won it with, i guess. certainly smgl winning with naggum didn't work out (though a good argument can be brought that's not nearly what happened there).
mircea_popescu: the alternative explanation being that preditor eats protein, herbivore carbs. brains work on carbs.
mircea_popescu: (horse also more intelligent than dog, in turn because auroch more intelligent than old wolf, and in general, the herbivore than the preditor. somehow.)
mircea_popescu: if i ask hanbot 's pitts anything they always say "woof", also. great pits they are.
asciilifeform: if you ask a c programmer why he thinks it is acceptable to define , e.g, string, as 'pointer into a potentially infinite row of crapola, maybe someone forgot the null terminator' he will ~always bring back answer of 'stfu, terrorist' (i.e. 'never thought about it, and don't intend to')
mircea_popescu: mind that there's two classes of response to "why ... ?" : one is "because..." and the other is "i never thought of this before...". there's no "topurpose..." in there notably, there's just the two, and one of the two will always be the case.
asciilifeform: so can haz a hypothetical contrary ? i.e. how would it have looked to have 'standard interface' to a thing which itself has no intention of obeying any standards ?
mircea_popescu: but they missed the opportunity to make sense of themselves, for themselves. and if this specifically didn't kill them, the root it belies i reckon nevertheless did.
mircea_popescu: "they did not make a standard ffi; and thereby perished." , no purpose involved, forget "to", there's no to.
asciilifeform does not, then , disagree. but thought that orig thread was re 'they did not make a standard ffi to talk with c-land, and thereby perished'
mircea_popescu: the task isn't to tell black chick how to code, but why she can't.
asciilifeform: that's the problem tho, if you could articulate a useful model of the c shitsoup, it would not be shitsoup, but merely another civilization with which one could potentially make commerce, like with japan say
mircea_popescu: when i respond to random idiots in here i don't do so ~because of the idiots~. i do so because the statement is valuable and important to people who aren't the idiots. much like flint makes fire not because of the shitty whatever that hits it, but because ~IT~ is flint.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 19:02 asciilifeform: the only 'common language' one can find to talk to bacteria -- is bleach.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787344 << this is wrong, not because of the bacteria, mind you, but because it fails at the paramount task of language, which is to articulate the model.
asciilifeform: ( and, importantly, must be able to substitute without rebuilding the proggy )
asciilifeform: ave1: the reason i wrote my mechanism as seen in ch8, is not only that it was the simplest physically possible that i could think of , but that i regard any invocation of randomola where i cannot substitute a known value for testing, as a serious problem -- how is one to know that the proggy actually does what is claimed with the randomola ? rather than, e.g., 'lose' some (or all of it) along the way and take a constant as the 'rando
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 16:33 mircea_popescu: ave1 is your dancing around the entropy problem with files etc driven by the fact you don't have a fg, incidentally ?
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787249, this also, although I can work with /dev/urandom just fine. I just needed to turn remove the tty call.
asciilifeform: was actually quite a feat, all of the various compilers were able to freely exchange data structures
asciilifeform: trinque: the interesting bit is that the bolix folx did 'make gut bacteria', they had a c and even fortran compiler shipped with the box
asciilifeform: ( on my systems i init the FG's tty at boot, so i did not bake it into ffacalc )
ave1: The discussion revolved around the functions that use the random number generation code in eucrypt.
trinque: asciilifeform: I don't think you take my meaning. Killing bacteria is a fine thing if you do it; the lisp guys didn't. Another strategy is engulfing bacteria and making it part of your digestive process, with all the added complexity and risk that entails.
asciilifeform: iirc diana_coman's also inits the tty, in a FG-specific way
asciilifeform: ave1: there you are. did you ever read my ch8 ? is the item you are trying to make, identical to the one seen there ?
asciilifeform: to learn per se is harmless, supposing you're decently good at mental compartmentalization. asciilifeform for instance worx with high-pressure liquishit from undocumented guts of winblowz kernel, ~daily. perhaps it is lethal eventually, but observe, not yet dead. ( would you say it has visible effect on style of asciilifeform's publications to date ? would you know, re the winblowz, if asciilifeform did not confess it ? )
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 15:46 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787216 << it seems rather, that first you should evaluate the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787207 and see if indeed it makes sense, or it's just the proverbial "first notion that formed in head upon quarter seccond's apprehension of $item" ; if indeed it is needed, legitimately, then the next step is to make a file handler that eats your file as you want it on one hand and emulates fg
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787233, good point, I have been thinking of other ways. The basic use case is to have a way to test the key generation (and other operations) in a repeatable way. With a live random generator this is impossible. Also time is a factor here, with a correctly primed file, I can generate a key in a second, without it can be a process that takes from 6 seconds to an hour (empirically determined)
asciilifeform: just how near to the level of monkey, are men to drop, to 'engage' with monkeys ?
asciilifeform: trinque : out of curiosity : do you see, e.g., asciilifeform's amputation of all microshit #ifdef... crapola from trb, as mistake ? 'fails to strategically engage the world-as-it-is' ?
asciilifeform: (neither easy, not quick, nor cheap, but whoever lives to the end of this, will not ask after 'ffi' etc)
asciilifeform: the correct algo, i suspect, is not to lament an abstract 'lisp' that 'became' wrong thing, but to simply confiscate whole stack from the heathens.
trinque: not that the world gives happy endings down any branch; we'd perhaps be loathing what lisp might've become as much as java, had it "won"
trinque: a sort of allergic refusal to engage the world strategically as it is, battle already won in mind.
trinque: or what was it, of USA, the world, something
trinque: sounds like the way you end up Emperor Norton of California
asciilifeform: the only 'common language' one can find to talk to bacteria -- is bleach.
asciilifeform: re the standard ffi, the lispm folks, as i understand, saw it as an instance of http://trilema.com/2016/unicode-is-fucking-stupid-the-definitive-article/#selection-187.80-187.399 , and i'm not convinced that they were wrong
mircea_popescu: yeah, i can see the argument.
mircea_popescu: contrary to the claims "lisp is not a perl, commonlisp is a specification not an implementation" in thee 1984-1994 interval lisp was exactly a perl. it didn't have to be a perl, though, it could have been well specificed from the beginning.
asciilifeform: re the process separation -- it is moar of a cardboard wall than actual wall, yes. i for one still prefer cardboard to no wall at all between toilet and kitchen.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-31 14:37 mp_en_viaje: there's absolutely no cause oher than historical accident that real ended at 16 bits.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:55 asciilifeform: trinque: lisps on cmachine may or may not have ever 'lived'. rather than 'killed'. extremely hostile environment , where the conventions of civilized life are unavailable , os api passes unbacked promises around, barfs mid-op in midst of arbitrary ops without any error handling, etc
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787303 <<< the problem here is very much like the problem of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-31#1778809 : you look at item, call it "c machine" and think anachronistically it stands the test of time. it does not -- at the time lisp failed to properly specify, what became retrospectively "the c machine" did not exist yet ; and a different outlay of powers in the field / attractors on the table
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:51 phf: lisp failed to even identify the need for ffi, when it was standardized i don't think there even were lisps that could or needed to ffi, since they all ran on lisp machines
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787295 << yes. a problem very much similar to raising a middle class girl in such poverty of stimuli she can't then cut it on her own, once off father's seclusion tank.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 15:02 mircea_popescu: (this is the deep, and political meaning of the rowhammer class of attacks : it has rendered amazon's business entirely worthless ; much like basic physics make tesla be a paper-only usg venture, so now the last remaining flagship. all hopes now pinned on googles artificial "intelligence" [and i guess "quantum" wank].)
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 15:46 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787216 << it seems rather, that first you should evaluate the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787207 and see if indeed it makes sense, or it's just the proverbial "first notion that formed in head upon quarter seccond's apprehension of $item" ; if indeed it is needed, legitimately, then the next step is to make a file handler that eats your file as you want it on one hand and emulates fg
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the directly analogous to 'hong kong' algo would be (brace yerself) separate processes for ada and c-crapolade, connected via ipc (under a unixlike, prolly 'domainsocket'). because otherwise, they live in same process, and if c-crapolade is entrusted with making e.g. a valid adastring, it can lie about the length and hose the ada routine, or simply fandango over address space as c-crapolade is wont to, and so forth.
mircea_popescu: the connection between http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787279 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787233 and, of course, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=uci is that no, they wouldn't be separate processes (and no, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783826 hasn't gone anywhere) but SEPARATE MACHINES.
mircea_popescu: http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/95rat/rat95html/rat95-author.html << anyone kind enough to email the guy who says he always answers email, ask if he's willing to take an interview over the things and matters surrounding the decision to upgrade ada95's from_c/to_ada with pointers, and if he's willing have him join here ?
mircea_popescu: and sorry for the lengthy pastes, but guess who doesn't have the sense to permit /#selection
mircea_popescu: "It is very important for Ada 95 programs to be able to interface effectively with systems written in other languages. To achieve this goal we have supplied three pragmas for interfacing with non-Ada software, and child packages Interfaces.C, Interfaces.COBOL, and Interfaces.Fortran which declare types, subprograms and other entities useful for interfacing with the three languages." reads to me like "it is very important for
mircea_popescu: if "hey doods, we're making a major fucking design change for these reasons" doesn't get prominently communicated, then what the fuck does ? "girls can code" !?
asciilifeform: http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/95rat/rat95html/rat95-p3-b.html << afaik the only known archaeology
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:21 phf: so ada95 only has from_c/to_ada, using char_ptrs/char_array, pointers only appear in ada2000. ~maybe~ they ran into limitations of that interfaces, that are somehow imposed by the spec, that we're missing (but running into effects of that), so to address the issue they introduced yet another method.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787272 << and maybe they never said anything about this anywhere nor is there anyone in charge of the project i could ask and he could point me to the log line nor anything else. bloody fucking hell. maybe. maybe i fucked their mothers and they never told me they got caught, and now i have a bunch of idiotic sons with congenital clap.
mircea_popescu: also fucking terrible comments interface you got there ; how do i know how many there are ? before clicking on the article ; and how do i visually separate them, and why aren';t they numbered and so on.
asciilifeform: ( could expand, but imho naggum beat the subject to a very satisfying death )
mircea_popescu: but it is no kind of success, unless i nthe vein of bare life, zoon bacterion.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite. anyway, to summarize : some idiot (from argentina -- and you should have seen his overwhelmed, $10 an hour cafeteria worker expression when the herd of pubescent latinas pinned him against the wall) and some other idiot (luis whatever, the director) COPIED THE STRING "bram stoker's dracula" from a coppola production, unaware of either coppola or stoker, or even the MEANING of the ' possesive convention.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 00:22 mircea_popescu: but this paradigm where "we will cater to the peniless but opinionated female herd, instead of the rich and actually powerful white male" fucked them over.
mircea_popescu: (the social milieu in which old men had, and alone had, the gold to pay for squeezing the manna out of the young hussies, which even created "dracula" the original in the first place, is of course long gone under the weight of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787190 idiocy)
mircea_popescu: hence, successes. strikes me as the c-ing-est, most adnotated, meaningless drivel approach possible. innit ?
mircea_popescu: what they did, referentially, as hanbot cleverly pointed out, is they called it "bram stoker's dracula" because the coppola version, which is what spawned this modern nonsense of young-male-vampire, CALLED it that. they have nfi who coppola was, or stoker for that matter. they just COPIED THE STRING.
asciilifeform: trinque: lisps on cmachine may or may not have ever 'lived'. rather than 'killed'. extremely hostile environment , where the conventions of civilized life are unavailable , os api passes unbacked promises around, barfs mid-op in midst of arbitrary ops without any error handling, etc
mircea_popescu: they had been to the "theater", in the very coquettish baroque building here, where i have coffee. the play was some "Bram stoker's dracula" production, but of course it had nothing to do with it, and you can tell by the following sign :
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:51 asciilifeform: c,cpp, not only do not have 'standard ffi' ( try an' link libs made by microshit, say, to gnu's, or intel's ) but not even has standard... integer handling ( e.g. overflow is ~undefined~ condition ), didn't seem to hurt its, if one dare use the word, 'successes'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787294 << but one wouldn't so dare. yes, i'm aware what passes for theater among the huts has more in common with punch and judy and organ grinding than anything. speaking of which -- yesterday my coffee wasd disturbed by chorus of overexcited pubescent girlies.
phf: lisp failed to even identify the need for ffi, when it was standardized i don't think there even were lisps that could or needed to ffi, since they all ran on lisp machines
asciilifeform: c,cpp, not only do not have 'standard ffi' ( try an' link libs made by microshit, say, to gnu's, or intel's ) but not even has standard... integer handling ( e.g. overflow is ~undefined~ condition ), didn't seem to hurt its, if one dare use the word, 'successes'
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 16:13 mircea_popescu: (this team-up disparity, incidentally, can readily be explained in republican terms ; it all revolves around http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ -- specifically, thinking people need a much larger sunken cost to evaluate their choices and come to the correct conclusion they got none. this is a lot more evident to idiots. as this disparity flows from the definitions of terms...)
mircea_popescu: certainly closer to the actual hot core of the mess than "oh, commercial blabla, and then the involved idiots had "egos" aka http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787242 )
mircea_popescu: phf back upstack, the argument can be brought that lisp failing to standardize [the only item that actually needed it] the ffi is actually why lisp failed ; both as a standard and as a technical solution.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can 'emulate ada' in c, sure. but 'array's length is kept ALWAYS right next to the array' is not part of the language's fundamental abstractions. and os api (any and all of'em) don't follow it; and libc; and so on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can allocate actual arrays, rather than pointer-arrays neh ?
mircea_popescu: in any case, the english didn't force the chinese to understand what contracts are. they just gave ~themselves~ passports and acted as if they were in england.
mircea_popescu: phf i can't resolve the antecedents, what is "that" in "that explanation" and what is "that" in "that would be the concern" ?
asciilifeform: there are several interacting problems. one of which is that the fundamental mechanism baked into c for dealing with arrays (where it is not possible to mechanically calculate the length of an array ~at all times~ because it is not in fact stored anywhere ) is broken in the most fundamental way possible
phf: in this case though hong kong would be if we could beat the authors of c code into providing ada conformant interfaces for us. because if you're the same person who's writing ada and who's writing the interop code (in ada or C, it doesn't matter) you're still "talking in orc"
mircea_popescu: evidently "entropy" requires, conceptually, a socket. a file is thje opposite of this, and the opposition is rendered by the word "specifically". a socket and a file differ in that files have lengths, sockets have widths.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a lot of interfacing problems are actually exposed by ave1 's comment above, which could also be read in the general form of "hey, the fundamental problem of electric communications (ie, how to make file and socket work together) is STILL unsolved".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the directly analogous to 'hong kong' algo would be (brace yerself) separate processes for ada and c-crapolade, connected via ipc (under a unixlike, prolly 'domainsocket'). because otherwise, they live in same process, and if c-crapolade is entrusted with making e.g. a valid adastring, it can lie about the length and hose the ada routine, or simply fandango over address space as c-crapolade is wont to, and so forth.
mircea_popescu: "hong kong", as in, "what trade happens in your country will happen in english and as per english law" would be the opposite of "unicode", conceptually.
mircea_popescu: "you can only talk to orc in barbar" problem was traditionally resolved through "extrateritoriality", ie make a base and shoot the orcs that fail to grok what perimeter means.
mircea_popescu: im not sure i understand the problem. explain this to me, why can't i talk to c world on my terms ?
phf: common lisp sidestepped that issue by not standardizing the ffi at all, and there are still hairy parts in all the implementations. there's fundamentally folly in talking to C word, which you have to do on C's terms
phf: so ada95 only has from_c/to_ada, using char_ptrs/char_array, pointers only appear in ada2000. ~maybe~ they ran into limitations of that interfaces, that are somehow imposed by the spec, that we're missing (but running into effects of that), so to address the issue they introduced yet another method.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: legendarily, in '90s ru baseball bats were sold errywhere, but no one had ever seen the ball or the glove...
phf: i think i'll write it up separately, because i like the approach. you have a generic package pointers, that you specialize with C types, like Interfaces.C.Pointers (Index => size_t, Element => char, Element_Array => char_array), and then you do explicit pointer arithmetic using procedures on that.
phf: i think i might've still used yet another ada/c interop. it's not the char_ptr, it's interfaces.c.pointer
asciilifeform: pretty sure there was at least 1 day with even lighter one
mircea_popescu: "the log" being today 70 lines or 2k words. i don't think this ever happeend before in teh history of irc.
asciilifeform read the log just nao, and can't quite figure out whether ave1 was attempting to implement a mechanism similar to asciilifeform's ch8 ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2175 ) or something entirely else
mircea_popescu: ave1 is your dancing around the entropy problem with files etc driven by the fact you don't have a fg, incidentally ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 23:49 mircea_popescu: hey shinohai where was the official kleopatra sauce ?
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 14:38 ave1: I've started on http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-28#1786498, in Ada code and now I'm debating if I shouldn't just move the code to C as the eucrypt interface is C. But then maybe eucrypt will move to FFA someday in the future and Ada will be a benifit. (Working on code with lot's of C calls in Ada is not nice...)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787224 << i don't expect eucrypt will ever move to ffa. this is in no sense a disidence, or any negative comment on ffa whatsoever. they are intended and designed as very different usecase solutions -- note the speed differential incumbent. eucrypt works as a "good enough" item, it principally intends to support a game, and same-level crypto needs. it's consequently to be light, fast, and ~r
mircea_popescu: (this team-up disparity, incidentally, can readily be explained in republican terms ; it all revolves around http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ -- specifically, thinking people need a much larger sunken cost to evaluate their choices and come to the correct conclusion they got none. this is a lot more evident to idiots. as this disparity flows from the definitions of terms...)
mircea_popescu: sadly the idiots team up faster and easier than thinking people do, so instead of linux driving nvidia out of business, the vice-versa occured.
mircea_popescu: whole fucking IDEA of a kernel was exactly this, "fuck you $vendor, if you need a whole programming language to init your pos peripheral YOU support it ; we'll just grin from the sidelines while the marketplace drives your inanity out of itself".
mircea_popescu: but just like we don't do the esthlos "o hai guise, i contribute half hour every third week between my radiomodelling hour and my watching cheerleader sports in the den" github dev model, we also don't do the "we'll underwrite your complexity under our brand" torvalds approach.
mircea_popescu: it is not an idle comment to observe that the universalist nature of pantsuitism manifests here exactly as everywhere -- their sad, broken cargocultish tech-ersatz does exactly what their sad, broken fake of an economy etc : rolls up the small costs into a larger one to be paid "in the future", which to them is a term of art specifically meaning never.
mircea_popescu: this a) would be actually simpler, in engineering terms, than the other possible approach your mind immediately ran to (simple, here, is a term of art -- it includes all costs, maintenance, readability, etc) ; and b) it keeps complexity where complexity belongs, which is to say upon the shoulders of the thing that wanted it in the first place.