ave1: Yes, I it is, I will remove that dependency promptly. Taking complex scripts from the wild takes some time to fix.
asciilifeform: ave1: the 1 thing that really, really gotta be fixed, is the 'now you get to start the 3h build from 0 every time' thing.
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> with both vars unset, much farther than before, but still nope : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Mm9hN/?raw=true
asciilifeform: i can't fucking believe the recipe relies on git, lol
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 with both vars unset, much farther than before, but still nope : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Mm9hN/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, do you propose to bereave me of the future "O yEaH ?!?!?! YOU ARE BANNED THEN!!!!" "you think i care ?" "of course you do! everyone cares!!!!" lulz ? hm ?
asciilifeform: cruddy connections , afaik, is the only recurrent problem
mircea_popescu: what's the problem, anyway, we hang out here with 50k cockcaged retards, singlehandedly make up 99% of all their intellectual products while they pretend we don't exist.
asciilifeform: lol! 'why do we live in the train tunnel, we could afford flat' 'they haven't kicked us yet...'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, because they've not kicked us off yet.
mircea_popescu: trinque, alright, then that's the plan here, you and esthlos come up with a v i can point people at when they have to publish ; you can test it by publishing whatever it was you were about to on it, and there we go.
mircea_popescu: do the tx stuff ; ada vtron can wait.
mircea_popescu: mod6, that's actually... exactly the opposite of what i said!
mod6: One other thing about ada-vtron, at the time, I was using system commands to execute `gnupg'. Where as now, perhaps we can use ffa/peh.
asciilifeform: ( btw, all of the nosuchlabs/pub/* linx , work again ! )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 17:17 mod6: speaking of ada stuff. i did get horsecocks to compile just fine with the changes that were discussed previously with diana_coman
mod6: sign and send are gonna be a tough ones, so we'll see how it goes. I've got a new test machine on the way, so I gotta stand that up, etc for all of this too.
trinque: neat mod6. super useful for the wallet.
mod6: But listunspent I already had working long ago, but not with the way you wanted it.
asciilifeform: and yes it can be used straight, the demo builds on all known gnats iirc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there is that.
asciilifeform: then no need to allocate anyffing.
mod6: fwiw, I did look for other appearences of the same bug in all of the trb source files, however, I didn't see one. Doesn't mean that they don't exist. I invite all to examine the source.
asciilifeform: mod6: parser for what ? tx ? you allocate a max-tx-sized (1 decimal MB...) buffer and shift the input into it.
mircea_popescu: mod6, just how many you'll find, it's already 1, and the rule goes 0-1-inf.
mircea_popescu: mod6, there's no rush there, esthlos had 90% of a working lisp v, i expect it can be tweaked into a deliverable. can have ada v later on.
mod6: And I'll certainly need to write something (or work with someone) to produce a ~fast~ parser. It's a giant ass-pain with the fixed-length strings.
mircea_popescu: i should prolly have a betting pool over how many retarded byte errors of the "hey, check them out, they forgot a comma" type he's gonna find before he releases anything.
mircea_popescu: alrighty, do that then.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hey mod6 how's your ada v coming along ? << Still stuck in the drawer. I haevn't even touched it since Q3 of 17. I'm distinctly intersted in rawtx tools getting into trb, currently.
mircea_popescu: the ~only~ item here is that if you had said "hey, i work with women, we're at that age when they're becoming patently useless / damaging to a professional career, i'll be fucked till mid may" when they started popping babies while preternding to be "owners" of shit, we'd have had this convo late march not early may.
mircea_popescu: phf, i get it dood, takes some thinking you've not had time to do. it's not the end of the world or anything, what the hell.
asciilifeform: theoretically should output a musltronic gnat.
phf: well, manifest is in the vtools project, but there's no programmatic support for it, because it's not even clear to me what sort of programmatic support might be needed. as it stands anyone is free to add or not add a manifest to their particular graph. the result of this experiment is that manifest works, you can see its output on the site. problem that we have is the need for a smarter grapher, the solution to which might just be "if it hurts when yo
mircea_popescu: but we have esthlos waited on a fix, and then there's whatever you were waiting to publish. so i'm guessing it'd have to be one of you.
mircea_popescu: i specifically don't want it on asciilifeform 's plate because i'm hoping that he and ave1 can actually get gpr work for irl purposes. if i manage to get eulora server off the fsf toolchain it'll be such a win the likes of which i hadn't dared hope for last year. between that and getting pizarro off the ground he has plenty, and not readily replaceable.
mircea_popescu: "fuck your fiat excuses" cuts both ways. we simply don't care, which can mean also we don't mind! just you know, make it easy for everyone to not mind, it'll be that then.
phf: ight have time to sit down with v.pl before mid may. i can also just remove the right hand side of vtools for now, since this new complexity is coming from an experimental v graph anyway. i've no idea though if people are using a sha512 vtools in preference of awk vdiff / gnu patch.
phf: aight, i'm going to be out of commission until mid may. i have comments for eulora that i need to type up (i got to sit down with a printout out over this weekend), i'm not sure about the amount of work required for the grapher until i have time to sit down and read v.pl (i sort of have an idea of how to implement it as part of vtools, but i'm not sure if the slicing is adequate), until i do i don't have a clear idea of how long it's going to take. i m
mircea_popescu: mod6, they're "unrelated" in the sense that not all files are touched at the same time, by each patch -- principally because we favour small patches.
mircea_popescu: if i have to guess i'll possibly guess wrongly ; if i have to assume i will conceivably assume incorrectly. why ? what does it pay ? just say. i know they told you discreet pays, but they lied. discreet does not pay. blunt wins.
mircea_popescu: just because i seem to be guessing successfully in case X does not mean you should put me in the situation of guessing about you. it just does not fucking pay.
phf: well then
phf: mircea_popescu: well, we have examples of diana_coman etc. who manages to do republican work while "raising a baby and having a day time job". presumably this shit can somehow be scheduled and managed better, i.e. the fact that those things even need to be communicated is an organizational failure. some progress could be made.
deedbot: mother[m] voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!up mother[m]
mircea_popescu: you didn't even as much as say "hey, i have a job irl". am i to assume you do ? why should i have to assume, why should i have to guess, there's simply no benefit to doing it this way.
mircea_popescu: phf, ok, so then say. "hey folks -- job fucked me over, i'll be lost in the swamp for [2 days ; 3 weeks ; 4 months]" whatever it is. why should i have to try and guess ?
phf: of that fiat work, but now i can't even afford to borrow against future time. basically since i came back from a vacation when the bulk of V work was done, i had very little free time. the republican policy is variations on "fuck your fiat excuses", but that is what's creating these vacuums of "it'll be done... sometime"
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 06:55 mircea_popescu: is the manifest issue fixed ? is the graphing done ? am i what, going to lose v now because i'm too polite to yell, and left to your own devices you're just going to break it, permanently, obscurely, and forget about it ? or what's the fucking logic here.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1806905 << well my fiat responsibilities are disrupting any kind of reasonable scheduling. i'm not 9 to 5, my fiat work goes through periods of heavy activity that are aligned with particular industry. and right now it's a particular mess, owner had a baby 3 weeks early, 2 weeks ago, another c level is having a baby in a week, and we're in the middle of a release. previous republican work was kind of cutting into some
mod6: well, sure not "urgent", but I shouldn't say "didn't work" either.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 14:38 trinque: the problem is that I have two unrelated patches (in reality, not theoretically)
asciilifeform: mod6: there's not an urgent and dire need to test the linked item ( though fwiw it stood up to exhaustive test on asciilifeform's side ). i linked it in response to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1806923 thread strictly.
mod6: Which is why I don't think I ever posted about it. My attention probably turned to other things, and I haven't circled back yet.
mod6: (re: crystals) re-reading the email, it is jogging my memory that I didn't use the included trb files specifically. I recall screwing around and wiring in my vtron, as opposed to your vtron, then who knows. I probably did something dumb.
asciilifeform: ( the 'press all it can' specifically )
mod6: Otherwise we have a lot of extra complexity and mental gymnatics.
mod6: If there are 3 leaves, A, B, and C. And for some reason, I shouldn't have B and C, then I should just be a man, and remove them from my 'patches' dir.
mod6: I'll have to get you the info. Probably later today.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, crystals is neato. Just tried to press (iirc) out the big thing and hit some sort of issues.
trinque considers the ability to be able to move files without miles of diff insanity pretty damned cool
a111: Logged on 2018-04-02 22:04 asciilifeform: trinque, phf , other vtronicists : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html
asciilifeform: in the interest of saving log bandwidth >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-02#1792071 << thread, where i described.
asciilifeform: and the 'tldr' of it is: if you download the patches/sigs in the example, and press to any particular one, you get a file 'trb', which, when put through included proggy 'txt2dir' results in a bitwise-correct (i.e. bit-identical to classical tree that we have for trb) press.
asciilifeform: mod6: the linked item was written in as illustration of 1 possible solution to problem posed by mircea_popescu and trinque , in re spuriously-independent patches creating misleading graph
asciilifeform: mod6: generally it's good practice to send in the eggogs some time near the time you actually did the test...
asciilifeform: ( if you grab the attachments of the ml post, and follow the instructions, you get bitwise-identical trb on every step of the ladder , vs the respective trb at that step in the orig tree . )
mod6: I'd have to go back an look, but I seem to recall trying to use it to create the trb patches, then inflate from those. and when I did, lotsa hunks/fuzz etc.
asciilifeform: mod6: considering that the example i gave ~is~ the totality of the trb tree, i'm a bit puzzled, what was it you tried ?
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: Sent 8 hours and 46 minutes ago: <ave1> The gcc makefiles use gnatls to find the runtime system directory, they do 'gnatls -v | grep adalib'. When ADA_OBJECTS_PATH is set, that line will return two directories and the build fails. Could you past the output of gnatls -v? (I can fix it with an extra head or tail call, but that also seems fragile)
asciilifeform: trinque: didja ever get a chance to try the algo i demo'd in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html ? what did you think ?
trinque: you would have dropped one of the antecedent patches you wanted if you hadn't commented in files they edited, right?
trinque: distinguish "tying up the leaves" from what I said?
mod6: and just because it has been stated several times in the logs, does't mean it makes sense to me.
trinque: why did you have to comment in files unrelated to the makefiles patch?
trinque: your solution in the makefiles patch was to comment in unrelated files, which was inelegant.
trinque: this has been restated in the logs several times by now.
mod6: If there were vpatches in your flow that went down two different paths, you simply removed those vpatches from your 'patches' directory. Press path A. You want bath B? Then you just add in what ever path B consists.
mod6: Back in the old days, there was one tree. I'm still not sure what problem we are trying to solve with all of this.
mircea_popescu: fellow strikes me as intelligent in conversation, then i keep having somehow the exact sort of problems with him that i usually have with idiots : i have no fucking idea what's going on, and i have to twist arms to sorta find out, maybe.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 04:33 mircea_popescu: how about a convention whereby all new genesises must contain a manifest.genesis file, which file will be constantly patched on each patchj, no exceptions, by adding a line which reads : "This is patch #x and the codebase hash is blabla".
mircea_popescu: it's still fucking broken. what's next, "we here at V house all halal, do graph by hand" ? and that's just one thing ; i have the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759100 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791593 chain
hanbot: well, left branch approach does exist; that's why i was even able to put up the mp-wp genesis, after all. as for fix, sure an eta'd be better than no eta. i'm just sayin', doesn't look much like a runner to me.
mircea_popescu: well, so if i'm talking to someone that's not particularly keen on doing me any favours, what do i say to them ? something like "don't use v, it is broken" ? so they can ask me for how long it's been broken and i can say what, a month ? and they can then ask when it is going to be fixed and i can say "dunno" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-20 04:05 phf: trinque: it wouldn't, i believe there's an antecedent->dependency transformation issues (i.e. the transform in mod6 v is adhoc, so it can't handle the tricky antecedent graph). the approach hanbot used was to just use the patches from the left branch of the graph, until, per mircea_popescu's request, i write a general purpose v graph code.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-09 14:31 mircea_popescu: a right. hanbot do me a favour : download ~only~ those patches which are in the leftmost trunk seen on phf's viewer (so exclude vtools_vdiff_sha, and its dependents) and try to flow again ?
mircea_popescu: dude check out the timestamps, 25th of feb, 25th of march, 19:40ish ? wtf coincidence is that.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-25 19:48 phf: hanbot: note that http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-vpatch/#selection-147.0-192.0 i'm going to fix it by wednesday, but if you can give me an unsigned rough draft of a keccak mp-wp.vpatch before then, i'll be able to use it as a test
hanbot: mircea_popescu i noted several times in the last weeks/months phf was reporting pretty clearly what was being worked on, etas, etc, fwiw --eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-25#1789616 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-25#1786023 . it's gotta be difficult to keep absolutely everything not only organized but also organizedly communicated, eh.
mircea_popescu: is the manifest issue fixed ? is the graphing done ? am i what, going to lose v now because i'm too polite to yell, and left to your own devices you're just going to break it, permanently, obscurely, and forget about it ? or what's the fucking logic here.
mircea_popescu: yo phf, what's the status on any of the n items you were going to be delivering except failed to ever mention again ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose the "reasonable" notion would be to not start this conversation well past midnight ; but my expectation is that were i to wait till tomorrow, or till six weeks from now, it'll still have to be carried exactly in the same manner for exactly the same reason, so what the hell difference does it make.
lobbesbot: ave1: The operation succeeded.
ave1: !Q later tell asciilifeform The gcc makefiles use gnatls to find the runtime system directory, they do 'gnatls -v | grep adalib'. When ADA_OBJECTS_PATH is set, that line will return two directories and the build fails. Could you past the output of gnatls -v? (I can fix it with an extra head or tail call, but that also seems fragile)
asciilifeform: funnily enuff this is not how orig gosplan worked. ( there was a multitude of -- de-facto independent -- factories , often overlapping in subj matter )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it's the fate of all government-powered pretend-business : to be rolled up into ever larger dollops, eventually a single one.
mod6: Strictly speaking, that's a very nice rack of tits, but the clothes-pins add some nice aesthetic.
asciilifeform: i.e. to take over the old functions of usg.microshit.
asciilifeform: and in long term to set the stage for 'we finally standardized pc hardware' ( on googlenintendo naturally )
asciilifeform: think, they collaborated on 'killing' gcc ( to be rid of the human mushroom ) and nao ditto for linuxkernel ( to be rid of the not always-cooperative linus )
mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/address/172Wm6TXmfnUGp9yXPorJrhRZzj4PSqRor << not even enough of a clue to seed his busking hat, the orc.
mircea_popescu: it's not proper to call it linux, it's gnu/linux, ok ? the inept crud on the side mattered, as proven by the fact that it was left behind once the core was stolen!
ben_vulpes: on the topic of OSen, there's also alphabet's new "very much not linux" https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/
mircea_popescu: "are you doing anything here ?" "we're showing the way!"
mircea_popescu: if the population of venice consisted of these fucks, the turks would have discovered a decrepit fisherman's village populated of a bunch of stiff retards gathered on the beach pointing at the sea.
BingoBoingo: Another time a family with children booked the other beds in my room and despite "No guests under 18" they were here during one of the Carnaval weekends
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure, There were a good number of times in January-February where my roommates for the night would be 7 identical argentine schoolgirls. They would sit in a circle and stare at their phones for hours, but at least they understand the importance of ventilation
BingoBoingo: But the Cowork is frankly boring. Insufficient turnover there. Same Uruguayos dicking around on photoshop and playing Pinoy all the time.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1806862 << On the plus side more common than Potato Niggers are identical Argentine Schoolgirls
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( tho in usa folx wash obsessively, to the point of annihilating their skin bacteria dangerously ) << Two of the potato nigger femayos insisted on wearing tank tops while they had actively draining boils in their armpits
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, but not there. because THEY CANT SEE IT. the difference between pantsuitism and aneurism -- minimal.
asciilifeform: ( tho in usa folx wash obsessively, to the point of annihilating their skin bacteria dangerously )
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it was in the log this morning. with peterl lol.
mod6: Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation presenets the STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS for the month of April, 2018: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-May/000299.html
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: alf-aesthetics is a rough pass filter
mircea_popescu: you are aware i was using it in the general, to denote the whole kit and kaboodle, high heels, proper posture, not being a lazy fuck, etc ?
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's orig point was precisely that... the clothespins dun do nuffin for asciilifeform . may as well be a hat with feather, or 9000 other things he's entirely insensitive to. and even the skins, i prefer the unedited ones. just-so.
mircea_popescu: but the idea isn't that 1980s chickie ~couldn't~ have been beautiful. of course could have been. the problem is that there wasn't who to put random clothespins on her nippes so she actually WAS beautiful. and for lack of that, well... she might as well could not have been, because unactualized potential and absent potential are not distinct in any sense.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 03:40 mircea_popescu: and "peasant civilisation" as in mirvniki or the wooden civilisation that covered the hills of transylvania as late as the 1800s is "both must repress"
mircea_popescu: this is the whole fucking point. when the soviets are in charge they decide female sexual competition "not fair" hurr durr. everyone gets lazy, ugly and stupid.
asciilifeform: the one on right hand, has moar skin an' moar photoshop... not 'fair fight'
mircea_popescu: but let's take the case of say drubich. chick didn't even WANT to be an actress ; yet her career conveniently spans the gap, and if you compare her work in the 80s with her work in the 90s, you can readily see the uglification effect of an all-soviet soyuz. even conquers age, somehow 30yo woman looks WAY THE FUCK better than her own teen self.
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, they're secret ?
mircea_popescu: show me a soviet hottie from the 80s.
asciilifeform likes the '88 su.
mircea_popescu: utterly unfucking watchable, i haven't even manage to get out of the establishing unrelated info part.
asciilifeform: the one by f. p. yockey
mircea_popescu: yeah, the mafia is now "white supremacists"
mircea_popescu: there's no way to state it ; the streets of 70s ny are now cubicals ; the "that ain't the question" is some nigger's whine about "bombed villages" ; this age's depp "speaks arabic" as the magical god-downloaded-just-in-time hero ball. and so fucking on until you fall over.
mircea_popescu: one really should watch the two side by side to appreciate the sheer depth this soviet soyuz fell in but twenty short years.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in latest mosfilm news, "imperium" is the pantsuit v2.0 on donnie brasco. with the acting stars of the age (that harry potter cocksucker) and everything!
mircea_popescu: thanks for the work.
mod6: Once I fed it this string "ab6o78", that sprung the trap (see the GDB debugging portion near the bottom).
mod6: And now it makes sense because the initial test case I was using was all values in the normal hexadecimal range.
mod6: The thing that really threw me off during the analysis is that before and after test drivers were both yielding the same, correct, result. So I had to dig way in and debug to see exactly where to spring the trap.
mod6: And it turns out, perhaps by luck alone, that they missed a comma on one value that is outside the normal character values for hexadecimal. If they had missed a comma somewhere in there, whoa. Could mean all kinds of bad things - OR perhaps they would have just caught it earlier as nothing would have worked right lol.
mod6: The reason that I did the analysis so in depth, I wanted to absolutely get to the bottom of how bad this could be.
mod6: You would hit index 111 if one passed an 'o' to ParseHex, triggering the landmine. What is supposed to happen, is; the loop is supposed to break if it ever hits -1 (0xff). However, if we hit [111] (0xfe) -2, we continue on.
mod6: In the array, there is a missing ',', which causes gcc/g++ not to puke, and simply ADDS(!) the two values together... in this case we had ,-1 -1, giving us -2. This does 2 things, shortens the filled depth of the array by 1, and changing the value from -1 (at index 111) to -2 (0xfe).
mod6: So this one is rather ugly; however, after analysis it appears that to step on the landmine one would have to pass a lower case 'o' to the ParseHex function. Which is outside the Hexadecimal range 0-9A-F. Not that someone couldn't do it, just that my guess is that the probability of hitting it is lower.
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000298.html << Lords & Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, enclosed is a defect I found in existing TRB, it's analysis, and fix.
mircea_popescu: douchebag, aite, so do a hundred or so, gpg me the links when done, and we can talk about how to franchise it after ?
douchebag: Yeah, does the 50-100 words have to be anything in particular?
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: the idea is to scale it up to whatever you can find, hundreds, thousands ? MILLIONS!
mircea_popescu: what i want you to do is first run this as a pilot ; and then see if you can find boys wanting to earn.
mircea_popescu: the way this would work in practice is : ima pay people to post links to trilema with a 50-100 word comment on forums. i figure it's worth what, a coupla bux ?
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:52 asciilifeform: trinque: 0 palpable delay between key and event was always the standard, and will forever remain the standard.
asciilifeform: ( and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560740 , and there was a particular link some time in past yr which i now cannot find, where someone actually went and ~measured~ the reaction time delay of msdos, various winblowz boxen from past 20yr, crapple, bolix, etc etc and found exactly what i'd expect him to find )
a111: Logged on 2014-11-16 18:45 asciilifeform: so, as described in my 'going nowhere' article, the modern winblows pc is in fact less efficient for virtually any practical purpose than its predecessors two decades earlier, despite a titanic amount of effort poured into the cpu micro-optimizations
asciilifeform: in, say , 1950s, they had many fewer engineers (there was not this peculiar compulsion to conscript errything with a pulse into 'engineering' ) and the ones they had, designed autobahn ramps, there was all the employment they could use
asciilifeform: dunno that it even works in this direction; granary with busted walls is not 'to provide employment for 9000 mice', they just show up.
mircea_popescu: rather than plainly admit, like the arabs do, that ~90% of males are going to die as 30yo virgins ; allah will provide
mircea_popescu: gotta provide employment for all these "engineer" boys.
asciilifeform: they stave off the complexicollapse, same way as the fed pushed forward the monetary one
asciilifeform: the other driver, given as the 'nm shrinkage' is ~100% wintel-driven -- 'moar room for microshit bloat'
mircea_popescu: kinda transparently the driver there. "not so much economically useful, as politically expedient -- we want to 'no one else' it"
asciilifeform: ( iirc not long ago there was thread re the world's only 10nm fab, belonging to usg )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in ~factory~ machinery, afaik the trend's been quite the opposite ( small manufacturers of ic existed in 1970s by the thousand, in 1980s -- by the hundred, today -- gone. )
mircea_popescu: well, it already fits ; just box is too large. you want smaller box. miniaturization has been the trend forever, and maybe miini's law still holds.
asciilifeform: ( and somehow admit the feedstock like film is admitted into camera, i.e. without introducing dust )
asciilifeform: 'clean room' solves itself if you could somehow get 100% of the process to fit in a reasonably small hermetic box..
asciilifeform: 'polaroid' is not the only possible scheme for ic sanity. could also have something akin to current-day 'dye sublimation' printer.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, with the ever lowering cost of robotics, there is some hope even classical ic process will become manageable.
asciilifeform: not to mention the 'clean room' business, where 1 flake of skin easily is enuff dirt to ruin ~several~ chips
asciilifeform: PeterL: indeed it does. however it also involves sputtering ( in, naturally, high vacuum ) to deposit metal, HF (and other nasties) to etch it away , and various other painfuls
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 18:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that 'polaroid' is the correct path. ( i.e. photographic input of where-what-goes; all of the chemistry needed -- sealed in a capsule, pops and exposes )
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806628 << doesn't the current process already involve exposing light to make the masks?
mircea_popescu: that's what my comment would probably have been directed at, i guess : that the religious notion of purity is not merely impractical, but counterfactual.
PeterL: I guess the religionsts would impart a different meaning to "clean" as well
mircea_popescu: this is equivocating the meaning of "cleanning". smegma fulfills the same role, biologically, but it is also the paragon of uncleanliness in social terms.
PeterL: like I said, can't find it now, but at the time I thought of replying: cunt is self-cleasing when it self-lubricates
PeterL: mircea_popescu: I remember seeing sometime in the logs you said (but I can't find it now) something along the lines of: girls that have sex have cleaner smelling cunt than the one who doesn't get any?
mircea_popescu: thx for the reporting.
mircea_popescu: i...see it. wtf shenanigans be these.
asciilifeform: they redirect to main pg
asciilifeform: ( the individual pgs, e.g. snsa, dun seem to yet )
ave1: As far as I can see, the culprit is this part "-I/opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/rts-native/adalib /opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/rts-native/adalib/../adainclude", It contains a space in the "-I", so now gnatmake thinks it needs to build an "adainclude" which will fail. I'll look into how these vars a set. (It's the ADA_INCLUDES flag in the makefile).
asciilifeform: nor does it seem to exist in the given tarballs.
asciilifeform: strace actually shows , loox like, the culprit : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3jZbc/?raw=true << ( only last lines shown )
asciilifeform: ave1: i've confirmed that all of the paths, as they appear in the snippet, actually contain their respective items
ave1: I've run on multiple systems (ubuntu and redhat), procedure has been to unpack the adacore binary file, set path and go (no ADA_*_PATH)
ave1: hmmm, I've never had to set these before
asciilifeform: without these, gnat dun work at all
ave1: No it should pick up the system build one
asciilifeform: from your log it looks as if it is looking for some build-local version of adainclude, rather than the machinewide one ?
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 24 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> ... and it is infuriatingly annoying that yer thing demands 'build' dir be deleted each time, starting the 3hrs from 0 for each attempt
ave1: asciilifeform: the exact same line in my build output shows almost the same -I directories, except all end with adalib/../adainclude, that last part '../adainclude' seems to be missing on your side. I will start a rebuild with some extra logging on that line. I will get back to it tomorrow. In the mean time, I have only set the path to the adacore gnat tools and I do not have any other GNAT* flags or CFLAGS or LDFLAGS etc. etc.
mircea_popescu: if only the guarantee of not being mediocre could be obtained, i could see myself blessing slavegirls with much longer travails.
asciilifeform: it is even conceivable that asciilifeform's hands grow out of his arse; so it'd be handy if somebody else were to try the $item
asciilifeform very muchly appreciates the... effort; but so far neither of the gnat builders actually worked in asciilifeform's hands
mircea_popescu: heck, i am now contemplating the strict unthinkable years ago, a sane build process for eulora server o.O
mircea_popescu: ave1, and lest it's get lost in the chatter, your work is very much appreciated.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 ... and it is infuriatingly annoying that yer thing demands 'build' dir be deleted each time, starting the 3hrs from 0 for each attempt
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, but they keep taking it off the shelf and gueing it to weather balloons to "Space flight" etc.
asciilifeform: it's an off-the-shelf industrial power tool, wat. already has use. just, no good for 'from empty crystal' ic-makin'.
mircea_popescu: space wars, cancer curing, computer making, peeling potatoes, whatever the fuck.
mircea_popescu: they're fixated on "find some practical need for ion beams". nfi.
asciilifeform periodically looks for some evidence, somewhere, that anybody has even conceived of working on 'polaroid-style' fabbing; to date found 0 , public or otherwise
asciilifeform: well ~somehow~ he conceived of the notion that 'fab dun have to cost $bil' but took it no further than the folx discussed in the 'gas tank additive THEY dun want you to know!' thread
asciilifeform: in the particular case -- i suspect simple failure of imagination.
mircea_popescu: in front of this, whether we idly decide that he's just dumb or actually evil, ie, his brain dun work like in the case of say bernstein ; or his brain doth work, but he deliberately attempts to shannonize republican words into imperial outcomes, a la curtis yarvin, jwz, whatever.... well what fucking difference does it make.
mircea_popescu: so yes, in conclusion, exactly as you say the linkd fellow is misdirected, and in EXACTLY in the manner discussed in http://trilema.com/2018/the-republic-without-mp/#selection-153.0-165.95
asciilifeform: moar than adequate for the sort of things we do, if massaged properly.
mircea_popescu: there's an exponential at work. which is the point here -- meshable micro will beat tyhe shit out of "color of bits" imperial bullshit.
asciilifeform: 'lego them up' very quickly gives fridge-sized thing that runs at 500kHz.
mircea_popescu: my problem with the ZX processors IS EMINENTLY NOT that "they're too big". is that i can't buy 500k of them and lego them up.
asciilifeform at one time made own pcb routinely, 2sided even, and all of the req'd kit fit in a suitcase and most of it obtainable at photography shops
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing the encapsulation doesn't havfe advantages. it does, which is why yes, laser paper universal as well as palcental mammals universal.
BingoBoingo: New year is January 1st. Is there a second parallel Jew year that starts in May?
asciilifeform: the diff is in re how commoditizable/fungible the raw material. it is not trivial to make paper that'll feed a laser printer and not catch fire / clog the rollers, but no one suffers any shortage of said paper today, it is produced on massive scale and sold for half penny / sheet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, let's call it a ~design~ notation process, rather than fabbing ?
asciilifeform: b&w photography is imho correctly seen as 'garage affair', notwithstanding that not 1 in 100,000 photohobbyists could produce the film
BingoBoingo: And it turns out the locals get YET ANOTHER fucking holiday tomorrow. This one is because they claim they LABOR!
mircea_popescu: it's something like bullet. "hard to make gunpowder, need saltpeter" "i know, we'll make these little cartridges, with the needed saltpeter included" "yes but now you need a bullet factory"
asciilifeform: nope. and i'd think the diff is pretty clear
asciilifeform: ( maker of the film has nfi what will be exposed on it, where . )
mircea_popescu: i don't dispute this is where it's headed, human reproduction system took the "we shall emulate original sea" step of eggs one notch further, yes.
asciilifeform: rather than, e.g., physically moving microscopic parts ( generally a nonstarter )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that 'polaroid' is the correct path. ( i.e. photographic input of where-what-goes; all of the chemistry needed -- sealed in a capsule, pops and exposes )
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 16:16 asciilifeform: ( for the sake of thread-completeness, what would the ~alternative~ to this story look like? i suggest -- it'd be a process which does to ic fab what 'polaroid' process did to colour photography. find way of etching the circuit from prefab 'sandwich' without caustic baths, sputtering, etc... )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806521 << i'll tell you what it would look like. every seen one of those large acid sheets back at the acid sheet factory ? before being broken into tiny bits for the street vendors ? THAT. except of course in reverse, let me print bits and smash them together into large fabrics. EVEN IF they're not nm.
asciilifeform: recall the legend ( i have nfi from what country it originated..) re the clever scammer who sold counterfeiters 'dollar printing machine', which worked great until hidden box ran out of dollarz
mircea_popescu: and it's true, of course. for the moartea-ca-o-veste-buna folk, that's exactly how everything goes, "how to make shit ? start with bread."
mircea_popescu: iirc one of the usg's own oligarchs (ie, inept dorks given money by a govt to pretend they're businessmen and can compete with us, exactly in the vein of http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#selection-185.266-185.1138 ) even SAID THOSE WORDS.
asciilifeform: on one hand, d00d ~did~ demonstrate grasp of the physical principles behind ic. on other hand -- to offer the result up in the dressing it is offered in -- is, to put it softly, misleading.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 16:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806449 << this appears to be honest work, but if you look at what he actually did, and with what resources, the 'imponade' evaporates away -- he made a coupla-transistor ic , and with 'garage' filled with a princely collection of surplus industrial gear ( electron microscope, sputtering chamber, ~very~ high end optical microscopes, incl. the one he junkyard-wars'd into a lithography box ) ,
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806515 << recall the black genius kid who made a clock out of "household materials" such as... a clock ?
a111: Logged on 2017-10-16 15:59 mircea_popescu adds this to his private "annals of orc history", in there with the scottish empire at darien and stuffs.
mircea_popescu: the latter is entirely the reason ireland didn't go the way of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-16#1725493