asciilifeform: spyked: it already arrives to me via pm from deedbot, see log. and deedbot misses ~20% of the output, and i suspect yours will also
spyked: and of course, thing can advertise rss via pm as well. but I'll only post public details about the bot as soon as I'm fairly confident that it won't shatter upon douchebag's first attempt to exploit it.
spyked: could also add a (similarly: yet experimental) logger bot into the mix
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-06#1810568 <-- hey asciilifeform, sorry for the late reply on this. what do you think about throwing an instance of my experimental rss bot in a separate chan (say, #phuctor) to spit however many new phuctorings? it's not fit for #t yet (deedbot self-voicing not yet ready) and not 100% stable yet, but it'd give me a chance to test it; and you to give me a kick in the rear if it doesn't work.
mircea_popescu: it's that paredit violates fundamental principle, that it encourages and enforces the work flow of manual formatting on every line. << ftr, i think he has an excellent point.
asciilifeform: ( the box i'm sitting on just this minute, actually staggered over whole year )
mircea_popescu: and expensive or not, there's not yuet been nor will there ever be an isp without pile of ssds.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is the plan. but gotta know what 'term' is.
asciilifeform: and they will fail in sync, whole raid at once, i suspect.
asciilifeform: roughly speaking, the data set can double in mass one more time, before asciilifeform has to ask for a mechanical disk to be fitted to dulap ( writing 256+GB/day will annihilate ssd in a coupla months ) and get used to much slower run
asciilifeform: in other noose, phuctor-werker nao occupies 112G at peak.
asciilifeform: esthlos: i wrote to him and he actually showed up. but didn't stick, apparently he prefers the sad loner life
trinque: anyhow esthlos most folks here (I assume) slam their lisp code through a formatter at each return, or similar
trinque: asciilifeform: already addressed in his thing there
asciilifeform: and from where came the dependency on cl-ppcre ?
asciilifeform: esthlos: is there a particular reason you stuffed it in a tgz, rather than to leave it web-readable ?
trinque: baking in an emacsism is another unnecessary dep imho
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 15:47 ben_vulpes: also esthlos what's with the linefeeds and extreeeeemely wide codeformatting?
esthlos: http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-version-2/ << I'm using tabs as 4 spaces, and I see the code as <80 col. what's your set up?
trinque: esthlos: ah neato. I need to get you into the RSS list.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 20:33 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, jurov collection expected to be fully eaten in 3-4 hrs. mircea_popescu , trinque , if you feel like switching on phuctor-deedbot-ticker prior to the 7mil keys being crunched, lemme know. ( if not , also say, then i'ma run it without waiting )
asciilifeform: aaaand the jurov keyz are in.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: i still check for my name in the logs a couple times a week so that's one. another is comment somewhere on contravex or e-mail.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-04 05:42 lobbes: not sure if pete_dushenski is ever coming around again or what, so I went ahead and created a page for the tsmr bot directory: http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-04#1792908 << fwiw i have no plans to take the bot directory down
pete_dushenski: lol right. they're online like fortnite is online
mircea_popescu: for instance -- the us army thinks itself online ; a ridiculous claim.
pete_dushenski: as there increasingly are even today, i suppose
pete_dushenski: by that time there will also be a handful of accepted definitions of "online", none intersecting.
mircea_popescu: much like whining to mommy works in the middle class "atomic family" not in the orphanage.
mircea_popescu: by the time our automated batteries defend our own mining bots and nobody else can even be online unless they're doing what told, "decentralisation" per se is a rather meaningless concept.
pete_dushenski: doesn't that defeat the advantage of decentralisation ? or are you thinking many such zones ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-09#1811482 << should be interesting to see how all the computing, fabrication, rocketry, mining etc threads converge into actual geointerdicted republican-only zone.
pete_dushenski: , it would've been a winner. but no, he had had to usg.gavin all over the place and draw dumb straight lines into infinity.
pete_dushenski: just finished reading "NYT #1" (aren't they all) book by yuval harari - homo deus - in which this ~historian~ goes on and on about ai taking ur jerbs, magick biotech pills that will turn us into supermen, and other technodystopianist nonsense. had dude shut up after first 2/3rds of the book and stuck with the history of human technological progress
mircea_popescu: anyway, even that cockpuppet keiser is back "opining" on prices and matters. because http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-noobs-learn-lessons-and-pay-for-the-privilege/ is 4 years ago so everyone magically forgot it.
pete_dushenski: lol he'll figure that out the day after he figures out that being "rich" means that you don't have to beg for jobs and "second chances"
a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 14:19 mircea_popescu: and in other fucking nonsense, freenode has decided to redirect ALL inbound links to its most recent web page, to advertise to the world privateinternetaccess.com, ie the nsa front ; and their derpitude in support of "resurrecting tor". this of course includes all old manual pages and everything else.
pete_dushenski: couldn't find this in the logs (so apologies if it's a repost) but holy shit is usg.btc scraping the bottom of the barrel if fatso karpeles is being resurrected as "cto" of privateinternetaccess (vpn) http://archive.is/XusOQ
pete_dushenski: what's africa got that south america doesn't, other than aids ?
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/08/la-ciudad-vieja-and-duelling-statues/ << Bingo Blog - La Ciudad Vieja And Duelling Statues
pete_dushenski: heh. my goal is to beat them in every sport until they're bar mitzvah'd, by which point they'll be little men and i should be well and retire-ready.
BingoBoingo: Well, we will still be here when the kids are done raising you.
pete_dushenski: even though contravex doesn't pop up here anymore, i get a kick out of the fact that it's still mostly #t'ers and former #t'ers who comment there. i guess this place still is the ballsiest nook of the net no matter what.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 17:17 asciilifeform went to dig for pete_dushenski's veblenism-clocks article, found that he is ~still~ writing'em, e.g. http://www.contravex.com/2018/05/07/what-does-it-mean-to-tell-the-time-or-urwerks-opera
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811310 << were you digging for this one ? http://www.contravex.com/2017/10/29/unearthing-beauty-the-lower-rungs-of-the-art-patrons-ladder-and-a-newfound-appreciation-of-time/#footnote_5_19813
BingoBoingo: Also think of all the confusion to result if the next BingoBoingo move ends up rolling Paraguay
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 20:44 asciilifeform: what does BingoBoingo intend to do in the place without great fiber ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, re confession, the "I think it essential that I inform the investigation of a series of new facts concerning my moral-personal dissoluteness. I mean my longtime vice of homosexuality." part is, at the very least, truthful as far as anyone knows (and corroborated, histortically)
mircea_popescu: it's also the moment oxford fell off my map.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, "bologna system" because of the name of the cheap salami. seems perfectly adequate.
asciilifeform: and the Bolsheviks "look good" to most people.' etc
asciilifeform: 'Why do the anticommunist "scholars", both in Russia and the West, ignore all this evidence? Why do they continue to promote the false notions that no conspiracies existed and that Stalin, not Ezhov, decided to execute hundreds of thousands of innocent people? The only possible explanation is that they do this for ideological reasons alone. The truth, as established by an examination of the primary source evidence, would make Stalin
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/trials_ezhovshchina_update0710.html << notbad, and pretty much exactly the conclusion asciilifeform drew from the $sources , yrs ago
BingoBoingo: Having places to walk to is fine. Having bipedal pollution constantly interupting the journey there...
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, the thing i liked most about expedition to BingoBoingo , and miss the most today : having worthwhile places to walk to
ben_vulpes: protip: it's all of them
BingoBoingo: And to top it all off, as much as my walking speed has slowed today, THEY STILL WON'T STOP STOPPING
asciilifeform pictures BingoBoingo being brought the year's new blocks, on cdrom, on camel
asciilifeform: ah if goat retirement, then sure
asciilifeform: what does BingoBoingo intend to do in the place without great fiber ?
BingoBoingo: I'd really like the chance to try a desert next if I survive this place.
BingoBoingo: And the air today has far too much humidity and not enough oxygen
BingoBoingo: The last longest wait was 45 minutes, AFTER the photo et al. To get the come back next week paper.
BingoBoingo: The operational aspect that burnedd an hour and a half was maliciously malcnstructed.
asciilifeform: i thought this was the expected output ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Went to the Department of Identity today. Stood in three seperate lines waiting to be called. The result was a piece of paper I have to bring back next week to actually get the cedula.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what have they done nao?
asciilifeform: keep in mind that there is not currently a simple knob to display ~solely~ those mods that will pop from this run.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, jurov collection expected to be fully eaten in 3-4 hrs. mircea_popescu , trinque , if you feel like switching on phuctor-deedbot-ticker prior to the 7mil keys being crunched, lemme know. ( if not , also say, then i'ma run it without waiting )
BingoBoingo: I hate these people so very much
BingoBoingo: Still alive, weather today is humid with a side of SMOG!
asciilifeform: afaik , ~100% of the claimed 'how i organized failed coup' detail is , by itself, plausible.
asciilifeform: in re ezhov's confessions, i have no particular structure on which to hang the post-sov 'canonical' interpretation where they're 'scripted and 100% rubbish'
mircea_popescu: turns out the learned distrust and ample spite for "scientists", "researchers", "academics" and other indistinct products of the bologna system is strictly universal.
mircea_popescu: "I term these sources "semi-official" since they are quoted unproblematically by all the anticommunist scholars. These scholars ignore them almost completely, and ignore their implications completely, but they do not consider the documents false."
asciilifeform tries to read original, manually guesses encoding, and very 1st word is the canonical бНОПНЯ ..!
mircea_popescu: (apparently some guy collected and translated to english the litany of yehzov confessions.)
mircea_popescu: in other items-for-the-mentally-voracious : https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/ezhovinterrogs.html
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding she has 100% of the cv bullet points that recommended HEROINE OF FEMINISM pantsuited hilarity for a run at the presidency.
asciilifeform: d00d died and left, literally, a coupla old shirts. but he wasn't 'in it for the living well', afaik simply enjoyed 'playing civ1'
mircea_popescu: in short -- stalin didn't have it so well, to the degree being purged is not directly nor obviously a worse fate.
mircea_popescu: anyway. would ~you~ want valy golubtsova's bf in the fucking room even ? fucktard was so stupid i have doubts he could even add on his own power.
mircea_popescu: the repository of collective knowledge, right ? uuga-booga.
asciilifeform: i'd expect it similarly shines across the board
mircea_popescu: and in today's dollop of hysterical lulz : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin manages to go through 10k words without even mentioning the nevzorov sisters, coincidentally the reason the fuckbuddy of some old imperial chick even got to be stalin's successor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i tell you though, the sad situation where all that's left to gather around your piss-soaked body is beria, hruschev, malenkov etcetera...
mircea_popescu: ask god when your time comes, who they were. just as soon he's done with explaining turbulent flow he'll explain history to you, too.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, what's wrong with you not knowing who they were.
asciilifeform: can count them on fingers.
mircea_popescu: the idea is to not get purged by idiots, not to not get purged in general. zhukov thinks he can be a better stalin than stalin, what's stalin's objective incentive to get in the way ? fucking let him.
mircea_popescu: also, though, not being purged isn't the end all be all summum bonum.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine zhukov purging him, but then again my imagination isn't the arbiter of history.
asciilifeform: i suspect that if had had been slightly smarter, along the axis contemplated here, he would prolly be remembered as just another purged d00d, along with tuhachevsky
mircea_popescu: the german -- didn't lack ; and in the upheaval, the political barriers to innovation turned out to be also weak. so they made.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, nah, see, the ~doctrine~ of tank-driven war was theoretically produced, as a necessary logical step, by russian staff, including a young zhukov. but the russian industry lacked the means to make the needed items.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, contention here is the structuring of activity as theoretically summarized, it's not driven by events but by the need to produce the structure trees needed by indefinitely scalalable summaries.
mircea_popescu: this isn't some kind of argument in the line of "russki orcs" ; in point of fact tanks led strategies were invented by russians ; but copied and employed at first by zee germans.
mircea_popescu: now, the soviets did a bunch of butchering, indiscriminate and nonsensical, 1916-1926 or so ; but under italian intellectual pressure the germans realised and structured the effort, and then the soviets copied in a year or two.
asciilifeform: but i still dun grasp the argument . in su ~similar process went through its cycle in the '20s. and then -- germany.
asciilifeform: hmm i seem to recall the aron thread nao
asciilifeform: ( insert here the customary asciilifeform thread re 'microshit is philosophical continuation of edison' )
mircea_popescu: guys came up with the electricity meter iirc.
asciilifeform: ( with the correct gesticulation, even )
mircea_popescu: anyway, dramatized in "cabaret" (the thing with liza minelli in it, with the "tomorrow belongs to me" hurr)
mircea_popescu: i r disagree. take the history of say... eh what the fuck is zee jewish german family with the radios ? i'm sure i put it in the logs, albert or albrecht or something
asciilifeform: by '34 su had already cranked through 2-3 turns of the cycle
mircea_popescu: not much after. but the methodology is strictly fascist.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no, if you look at the history, the soviets were doing it ~after~ zee germans.
mircea_popescu: that's why nyt jewry is so eager to "fight with russia", has no mention of china whatsoever. they figure that's what china'd like to see.
mircea_popescu: it's a "i wonder which of these idle fucks would our overlords think is a best incarnation of their batshit notion of aryan".
mircea_popescu: so no, it's very much not "first, we behead the owner, keep the young aspirant manager director / fucker of owner's daughter against owner's will ; THEN we behead him, once we've trained a working class successor ; THEN we behead successor, put in politruk" cycle of nazi (and then COPIED, lifted wholesale by soviets, like everything else).
mircea_popescu: all that remains is the "not rock boat" struggle so as china continues to drop the pellet in the beautiful ones' cage.
mircea_popescu: there's really nothing left.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the fight over remnants of old infrastructure, esp. still-operating chumpatrons (hollywood etc) i expect will continue for many years
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, but your mapping is incorrect. soviets had a lot of pre-existing fat to burn down in 1920s lulzfest. usg arguably had same in the 70s, when they started with "rights for wife in divorce and woman in workplace" nonsense. it's been half a century, there's nothing left to eat in the great empire of yore.
ben_vulpes: where you bomb a wedding and then bomb it again when the women and children rush back in screaming to pull their husbands and sons from the carnage
asciilifeform: in my head i mapped , e.g., the weinstein thing, to the sov replacement of e.g. old factory owner, with moscow-appointee director
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: believable political careers take time to fabricate. schniederman mighta been a someone in some other context, but what's his replacement? another "first $minoritygroup to NYAG"? even diehard leftists are not so bullish on firsts after the first black man to run the show gleefully doubletapped weddings for his entire stay in the whitehouse.
mircea_popescu: that's the point of http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-ideal-social-systems-reprint/ : that it is not ~POSSIBLE~ to act meaningfully in socialism.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, but they're replacing politruks lol.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i dun see the 'tearing apart', afaik it's classical purge-and-replace-with-politruk
ben_vulpes: and lo, isn't it interesting that as the barrier for lordship goes up and the bar for defrocking goes down, the pantsuit imitate to their detriment while the republic purges dross?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm none too interested in the specifics; i'm more interested in/amused by the long-predicted continually-lowering-bar-to-defrockment tearing the pantsuit organizations apart from the top.,
asciilifeform: hey we're discussing the same savages whose supreme court judge famously 'i know it when i see it!'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, did they ever sit down and write the "manual of use" or is their usage of "abuse" still just as spurious as it was when they started whining about it ?
ben_vulpes: and in methinks the democrat doth protest too much news, another meetooist has been getting slappy in bed: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/four-women-accuse-new-yorks-attorney-general-of-physical-abuse
mircea_popescu: i suppose he's the exact item that drove lenin up the wall and resulted in the eventual rape of the "kulak" : comfortable people will politely listen, perhaps, but why bother ?
asciilifeform went to dig for pete_dushenski's veblenism-clocks article, found that he is ~still~ writing'em, e.g. http://www.contravex.com/2018/05/07/what-does-it-mean-to-tell-the-time-or-urwerks-opera
mircea_popescu: hey, mr hui didn't do so well as an envoy to kishinev either.
asciilifeform asciilifeform recalls father's tale re the great bulgarian freighter, the 'pula', that had to be repainted when sent to constanta...
mircea_popescu: (for the innocent : "don't put your hands or your dick in the food". because to people familiar with latin and its derivatives, "manipulacion de alimentos" sounds 100% like the wrong approach to handling food.)
mircea_popescu: but i didn't know more than they do in ~any and all fields as a wee tyke in 92, now did i. in fact, that's pretty much how i found out.
mircea_popescu: it's simple enough : no pula! and no mani! in the alimentos!
mircea_popescu: i expect. i mean... i was walking through town yesterday, we went by a sign, girly is, "hey, would you like to take their beautification class ? matricula abierta!" and i'm like... "bitch, i probably know more than they do." it's fucking true. and the next item was "manipulacion de alimentos". there I DEFINITELY!!! know more than they do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, in 92 of interest were items like "hey, check it out, road w/o potholes" and "you can go to shop in X field and they'll either have or produce through specified process any item in field" etcetera. what experience informed by 25 years' research identifies as intolerable food was then merely weird. idiots i can smell from miles away now merely counted as very strange and bizarre people. and so on.
mircea_popescu: like if you took all the canadians, allowed the smater 10% to leave, then plonked them all down in haiti.
mircea_popescu: have you ever even fucking seen british "real estate" ? it's like the doghouse show!
mircea_popescu: hong kong is kramped, but at least the food's mostly edible.
mircea_popescu: they got the worst food, worst amenties, worst weather, worst service, most expensive ugly whores and really, every ingrown hair conceivable out of anywhere.
mircea_popescu: not many ~tourists~, but to imagine anyone goes to the shithole of the western hemisphere for the ... what was it, for the food ?
mircea_popescu: now i'm confused. england is this shitty island with bad weather and very expensive cabs, you heard of it ?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 16:56 asciilifeform: just how many tourists drive themselves with own hands, anyway
mircea_popescu: that they're idiots enough to buy of own volition (not out of own pocket, not like they own or make money, anyway -- which is why all the discussion re "taxes" is such lulz, what fucking taxes lmao) has no bearing ; and to propose that it's "because" jobbs crusted diamonds to one once and held it over his head is so much logicking with the stones.
asciilifeform: i suspect that subtracting the rolex,vertu,patek,etc. pseudo-craftsman industrial garbage, leaves the null set tho.
mircea_popescu: you know for a fact that if people ~didn't~ buy cellphones, they'd be forced down their throats via "employer '''bought''' and here it is, wear it".
mircea_popescu: r not one whit in the discussion.
mircea_popescu: so now back to it : idle marketing gimmicks whereby they crust diamonds to a cellphone / put crowns on random selected poor from the socialist horde etc, so as to sell the phones/electoral nonsense w/e they're selling, "it's worth spending your time waiting tables in la, because this one chick we picked gets 10mn a year and so couldn't you (unless of course we arbitrarily and entirely outside of your control pick you)." matte
asciilifeform: just how many tourists drive themselves with own hands, anyway
mircea_popescu: to trade 40% of the world for 60% of a shitty island... "it profits a man nothing to trade his soul for the whole world... but for walles ?!?!"
mircea_popescu: ie, having eu licenses admitted in the island is worth about... 40% of the value of the eu license.
mircea_popescu: to which of course, the brits will respond in kind, predictibly enough -- and here's the capper : the loss to a group of 1mn for rejecting 1k who 1k then reject the 1mn back is... ~999k.
mircea_popescu: ha. no. they decided they're not going to recognize uk-issued driving licenses on the continent.
asciilifeform: dunno... admit the ukrs ?
mircea_popescu: now tell me, what is the absolutely ~dumbest~ thing bruxells could have done ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, let me tell you a lulzy story : so the brexit, yes ?
mircea_popescu: so the sale is always a sham, and the "corporate phone" necessarily the underlying support should sales falter.
asciilifeform: i'm beginning to suspect that mircea_popescu is thinking strictly of civilization-era veblens ( faberge, lampshades ) to the exclusion of what passes for'em today, under this word
mircea_popescu: the limiting factor on human leather goods is the "strong winds" of ye olde prophete ; the driving force of hallucinatoria is mass acceptance, meaning that the individual item value is actually negative. a phone in the factory costs... -5$. not even zero, below 0. whereas once in "consumer" hands, it's worth whatever, 75 bux.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a reason veblen goods end up pricey whereas hallucination excreta ends up cheap.
mircea_popescu: the word "project" is not incidental, by the way. hallucinatory world would be all about hallucinations.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-07 18:20 mircea_popescu: nda Gates Foundation. Was not a whole lot. Less than a mil. I made a decent fortune from bitcoins for no reason. And they are doing some really cool projects for humanity. Love their work. I have been to quite a few of Richard Stallman's talks. But still not inspired enough to care so much about OSS. I like it, but I also understand the argument for not having OSS and making money off it. But you did a good thing there. so co
mircea_popescu: but in the degenerate herd that replaced the nation, well... how did that go, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-07#1810844
asciilifeform: even in fdr's empire. there is a letter preserved, where he thanked a d00d who gifted him iirc a japanese skull
mircea_popescu: back when the germans still existed as a people, plenty of demand for human skin couches.
asciilifeform: several possible variations on this theme. but for some reason out of fashion.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, recall the teeth coin discussion ?
mircea_popescu: the word printed on it is "toYOta", as in, "would you like to be my friend ? we're both exactly just as empty of anything".
asciilifeform: by this logic, the ultimate veblen product is simply skulls
mircea_popescu: but see, the word printed on it isn't "please! NOT MY DAUGHTER!" in the blood of a double rape and murder victim.
mircea_popescu: networked items, such as phones, bank cheques, copyright certificates, college degrees etcetera are made of the ~acceptance of all~, not of the suffering of some.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it is very much not true, no. veblen goods are as i said above, " made out of the sufference of small children and the tears of young virgin widows". it is an item of denial.
mircea_popescu: (in fact, the immense importance of the phone, and the cellphone, in cultural terms, was exactly this : showing skeptics such as yours truly that bottled hallucination doth sell on actual economic grounds.)
mircea_popescu: the phone is a sort of college degree, meaningless outside the sturcture of meaning that produced it.
mircea_popescu: the phone is not an object, you understand this.
mircea_popescu: i would not. speaking of actual items, ie watches, it's not the case that every existent demand can be economically exploited. there's also uranium in the ocean etc. speaking of phones, they're not proper items, they are, like say the jet fighter, merely the sign of something somewhere else.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 19:34 mircea_popescu: so : the faberge egg, the original, was made in 1885 ; but it was the continuation and in a sense the crowing of a current of thought (ie, culture) and proper civilisation that reached back over a centry.
asciilifeform: so how would mircea_popescu put on a theoretical footing, the transition from faberge to 'vertu phone' ?
mircea_popescu: this is like proposing that "look where videogame sexualization ended up" in a discussion about modern sexuality. really, what pipe dreams the pipe smokers dream is not a proper basis for argument.
asciilifeform: it has to do with the demise of craftsman as a class.
mircea_popescu: if men can somehow convince themselves women are "people, just like them", they certainly can convince themselves watches are people just like them.
asciilifeform: observe where veblenism ended up going : 1) there exists a $mil phone 2) it consists of ipboje with diamonds glued on.
mircea_popescu: but this is also irrelevant : local brothel offers much better deal than local wedding chappel in all times and places.
asciilifeform: the veblenism was strained pretty thin, to survive that one.
asciilifeform: the hilarious bit however is that the watch made 'of dirt and air' and for three cents, keeps better time and is ~indestructible
mircea_popescu: and even if it stands to unexamined imagination, "the $5 watch renders the demand for $500`000 watches 0", this is never true. no demand ever reaches actual 0, for very good reasons that have to do with how negative numbers don't exist irl.
mircea_popescu: now, the demand for "a watch made out of the sufference of small children and the tears of young virgin widows" was never 0 ; and will never be 0, no matter what happens.
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER, the collapse was of 500mn not of 1bn. it did reduce the demand, but not wipe it out entirely.
mircea_popescu: gets a wristwatch) the introduction of the quartz movement resolved the problem, pushing supply to ~infinity bn and therefore demand first to 900mn and eventually to maybe half bn. (i haven't worn a wristwatch in like 20 years, because why.)
mircea_popescu: depends in what market. i suspect the "chilling effect" is far stronger than the actual effect. ie, in a market with demand for 1bn watches and supply for ~100mn (which was the case cca 1940, ftr, take say shadow of a doubt : bank clerk who can support wife and daughters in humongous mansion in desirable californa location (santa rosa) out of his bank clerk job is very proud, and his friends are very envious, when he finally
asciilifeform: entirely constructed item, and orthogonal to the physical product ( which does not even need to exist )
asciilifeform: the 'half-mn' watch that costs 10bux to make, however , outcompeted the '5 year' one. ( likely because the original notion where clockmaker is used as an ad-hoc orcish 'proof of work', was ill-founded )
mircea_popescu: rsed to open the kibble package on their own and without complaining it's too hard to open."
mircea_popescu: and the problem isn't even that "it takes a skilled man 5 years to handmake a watch", because half-mn watches would sell and skilled people make less than 100k a year routinely. the problem is rather "are you fucking kidding me, the only way you can find whores is if you find someone to persuade women-on-couches that whoring wouldn't inconvenience their couch-bound lifestyle, wtf handmade clocks. you're lucky if they can be a
asciilifeform: ( harrison-style craftsmen were able to do things that today seen 'impossible', e.g. lathe work ~without slide~, i.e. with handheld cutter and 0 ruler )
mircea_popescu: well, there's a large pile of veblenizers that make "heirloom" watches. but they're all mechanically made and consequently fundamentally uninteresting. talk about "Accept the form of the argument so as to debate its conclusions" failure mode. somehow nobody told them that if they do move to industrial process, there's no possible argument as to why not quartz.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hence peroxide, zinc-air cells, other 'it only needs to work for 1hour' trickery, being imho promising
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, but clockmaking WAS a school, back before the "you can do anything" and "you're perfect the way ytou are" 1789 moment.
mircea_popescu: anyway -- lawnmower flying machines are slow enough, loud enough, limited enough, targettable enough, undynamic enough and everything else enough that even 1980s tech bound empire can handle them, even "en masse" (they can't mass well either)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was in fact just such a machinegun -- and engine -- in 1970s su
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the true reason "no need to optimize on that axis" is because it's a flying machine that doesn't threaten the usg.
mircea_popescu: i would personally really like a metal-miniaturization school. i would like to see not only really tiny machine guns as in ye ancient discussion of anti-fly capable tabletop AA batteries ; but also tiny engines, as in matchbox sized model cars THAT ACTUALLY TAKE FUEL, from the dropper. one drop = full tank. and then go.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-28 02:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: pigeons: let's scratch the arithmetic itch. approx. 8400 km from me to b-a. a LiMnO2 (non-rechargeable) battery yields approx. 400 Wh/kg.
asciilifeform: whereas for 'disposable' flying machines, that either explode, or make 1way journey ( a la http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-28#1075949 thread ) can use electric engines and zinc-air battery ( that dun need to carry oxidizer )
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: peroxide goes through half-decade-ly popularity cycles, folks discover the cat packs are a pita, move on to propane or other low-dough exotics.
ben_vulpes: because intellectually lazy americans have outgrown their curiosity, and buy kits to bolt together. "look ma, i r aerospace engineer!"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811158 << they're actually some of the better hull designs, owing to who made them and when they were made. not unsinkable, by any means, but certainly also not prone to break in half like the clittoral combat sneaker.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quasi-relatedly, asciilifeform has wondered why engines with favourable cost/mass/thrust that nevertheless aren't great sells in manned vehicles -- namely, peroxide -- haven't made an entrance in quadcopterism
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, ^L is page break, very early printer-bound substitute for the later notion of "files"
ben_vulpes: reversible direction for another
asciilifeform: phf: whole 1950s thermonuke test period of usg consisted of it tho.
phf: asciilifeform: i suspect there are old school historic reasons for not using own vessels for target practice.
ben_vulpes: no, but vastly less so than the generator assy. it's a collar around each prop.
asciilifeform: and the pitch-controllers are massless ?
ben_vulpes: you can get the fine control with mechanical rotor pitch variation as well.
asciilifeform: you get the fine control n-copter demands, and reasonable efficiency
asciilifeform: we had the thread.
asciilifeform: why the fuck to use belts
ben_vulpes: in other usg idiocies, i recently found a dood who achieved the not-insignificant feat of a constant propspeed belt-drive GAS ENGINE QUADCOPTER butbutbut the rotor pitch variation mechanism RUNS OVER WIFI
asciilifeform: ( not to mention, they won't use e.g. old aircraft carrier, as target, because gotta maintain 'unsinkable' mythology )
ben_vulpes: now i sympathize deeply but the apparent frugality is at such odds with the otherwise liberal combustion of dollars that it induces a painful headache of cognitive dissonance
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i was saddened that they're apparently in bed with such jews that they can't bring themselves to sink the target ship
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: loox like a failure , the pigeons -- escaped
ben_vulpes: aaaaand in oldie-but-guaranteed-to-bring-childish-joy-to-the-face-of-the-rocketry-enthusiast-goodies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgv5ixxgTsQ
phf: it's a page break, historically used to indicate sections, so when you e.g. spool it to printer you get a page break at the end of each section. emacs (but so did zwei) have special keys for handling it at top level
ben_vulpes: shows up as speshulchar ^L in emacs; i've seen this before in other lispwads written by the github crew and don't really know what to make of it. convention of the ancients? perhaps asciilifeform or phf or someone else who's literate and knows history could enlighten me.
ben_vulpes: also esthlos what's with the linefeeds and extreeeeemely wide codeformatting?
ben_vulpes: esthlos: also needs a build script to produce a binary for use outside of a LISP repl; my lisp v implementation ran afoul of this years ago. ~nobody would fire up a lisp repl to test the thing. this may be different today, but the fact remains that for this to make it into widespread use it's going to need to be callable from the linux cli.
mircea_popescu: there is also that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the definition isn't "at least one good signature from declared .wot in .seals dir" but "at least one good signature and no bad signatures from declared .wot in .seals dir".
ben_vulpes: actually invalid signature in .seals should stop the world, but i don't recall offhand if that's differentiable from the no key for signature case
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 15:05 ave1: The weather has suddenly gone from 15 degrees celcius /cloudy/raining to over 25 with sun here, so the garden is exploding and needs some serious cutting
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811107 << we seriously need to get off the ground a service whereby this type of reports (or say bb getting pneumonia) triggers an airplane trip for a few girls eager to do garden cutting in the buff.
ben_vulpes: esthlos: seems your v doesn't take a head to which to press, but implicitly presses whatever comes out of the toposort; this is incorrect and the operator needs a lever there
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 14:45 ave1: diana_coman, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-07#1810933, I'm working on it, getting rid of the git line was a bit harder than expected (apparently nobody hosts this as as a tar.gz file). Also, all my parallel builds of the whole thing fail.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811085 << minigame would host it ; so would deedbot. you saw the trb build style, specifically http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html (the parts where it goes 'curl http://deedbot.org/deed-430460-2.txt > rotor.tar.gz.asc')
ben_vulpes: whimsy is thiiiick in there