trinque: hmmm, I can see it. in the personal anecdote, I wasn't overflowing with loyalty for anyone either.
mircea_popescu: (and no, i don't mean "talk to kids ~anbout bedwetting~, what a stupid fucking subject. i mean take them out for a sundae and do something interesting or other, whatever the spur of the moment provides.)
mircea_popescu: though from experience, talking to the kid works actually a whole of a lot better. just, you need to be capable of actual talk. so hanging ~the parents~ may also be effectual.
mircea_popescu: bedwetting, perhaps the most eminent example towards your line, also doesn't work. though conceivably hanging bedwetters would work, but in the social sense -- be rid of them.
mircea_popescu: violence is extremely effectual at curing high level delusions -- every "princess" reverts to sanity after a stint in the dungeon. it's not particularly effectual at curing lower level issues, beating kids for suttering doesn't work.
mircea_popescu: but i'm not persuaded by the lying-beating coupling.
mircea_popescu: trinque, it's my read also. retarded, in the proper sense, like 9yo that can't tie own shoes.
mircea_popescu: once caught, it came out that he was gouging the eyes out ~because "he had heard that the image of killer remains on body's retina"~ ; he stopped, becauise he figured out it's an old wives' tale
mircea_popescu: anyway, prolly worth the mention, since spoke of chikatilo : he originally did two things : stabbed the victims, and enucleated them.
trinque: these, the identified-as-black, hip-gay, feminist-ally and the rest, always struck me as having missed a developmental stage
mircea_popescu: "african-americans" however are universally "curious about what'd it be like", and for the obvious reason : they're about as african as i am.
mircea_popescu: (dysfunctional here isn't even a value judgement ; sexuality is a function of anatomy, a portion of phisiology, like breathing. if you're asphyxiating it doesn't follow you're a bad person thereby.)
mircea_popescu: there's no curiosity about "what it'd be like" to stab people in the sadist ; he arrives at it, through a very personal dysfunctional process. and there's no curiosity about "what it'd be like" to "be black" or "be gay" or etcetera. when's the last time you met an african who was wondering what'd it be like to be born in africa. hurr.
mircea_popescu: now back to fake homosexuality : human sexuality is a learned behaviour. proper homosexuality is an inability to learn, akin to dyslexia or lefthandedness. fake homosexuality is the exact contrary, a lot of "what if"ism and "provemewrong"ism and so on. a social, rather than biological phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: the father who can't talk to his son, but enjoys "expressing himself" through their fishing together is just as mentally broken as a proper sadist, just in a different spot of what'd be a normallty working brain.
mircea_popescu: this is fetishism, in all cases : a ~substitute~, covering for an absence. a sadist isn't one who slaps the woman around if she talks out of turn ; nor one who enjoys pain and suffering. a sadist is one who can't function normally, and uses a highly structured substitute behaviour. these two factors, in order.
mircea_popescu: alright. the recently mentioned andrei chikatilo is a textbook model. the man could not achieve an erection with either willing or unwilling partners ; he used stabbing as an erection substitute.
mircea_popescu: right. can you explain the difference between sadism, as the clinically relevant psych term of art, and "sadism", ie, fake sadism, as the common discourse locus ?
mircea_popescu: much like the faggots were a lot more numerous before the democratic party invaded them with a bunch of fake faggots.
mircea_popescu: prior to empire-of-idiots colonization in the shape of "sane safe and consensual" nonsense, bdsm world rested squarely on "there's no positive value to social fit". of course it was a lot smaller then.
mircea_popescu: but removing the perceived positive value of fit (such as, by publicly burning "consensus" as in the imperial facade, as the republic has done) seems a large step in the right direction.
mircea_popescu: if you can distinguish between those who are pretending because they're blind already anyway and it costs them nothing to pretend and those who are pretending just to fit in, then yes.
Mocky: that makes it sound like my theory could be proposing that while socialism isn't curable, maybe it can find the ones who "never really were"
mircea_popescu: and there's a healthy helping of http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ in all of this : if your labels are ex-post-facto, you can't futurize on their basis lest you end up like the "global warming" muppets, "projecting" on "data" abvout the past that was extrapolated from the present.
mircea_popescu: Mocky, the problem with scotsman fallacy is that there's an unresolved duality. i don't propose that one's a) a scotsman for being born of scottish woman and AT THE SAME TIME b) a scotsman because not an irredeemable asshole. i'm just going with b, and that's logically sound.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 18:22 mircea_popescu: this is the sort of objection that can only be resolved by historians.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 03:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817310 << fucking can't have 1600s style "examinations on the doctrine of the faith", chiefly because of goedel's objection. our doctrine is not actually either complete or coherent.
mircea_popescu: this is the hitch uniting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817337 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818277 : the observation that hte only functionally useful labels are ex-post-facto.
Mocky: i see that my theory does propose that, yet I've never seen a socialist cured
mircea_popescu: understand what's at stake here : your theory proposes socialism is curable. no such luck irl, or in seinfeld's words, "when he's dead, he'll be relieved."
mircea_popescu: first blind, then pretense, because why not. http://trilema.com/2015/prophylaxis/#footnote_7_62778
Mocky: maybe blinded by pretense is a better way to say it then
mircea_popescu: just so -- since socialism (or democracy, whatever, no difference between these terms) offers the "we'll ignore half the shit anyway" niche, the fantasy beliefs found a welcoming place to stay.
mircea_popescu: (sleep is a similar item -- it originally appeared as a learned behaviour to conserve energy and lower capture risk ; as it provided a niche CNS growth parasitized it, and so now oyu need to sleep though your fridge is full and there's no preditors threatening you)
mircea_popescu: nah, not at all. fails to account definitionally, that's what it is. the fantasies are empty niche exploitation, coming much later.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 14:22 mircea_popescu: MEANWHILE, however, they have 100% unaccounted for the time externality. so basically it's a contest consisting of a guy without legs going about finding fault with people's fingers. because he's decided "legs don't count", and so as he has much better hands than the rest of those losers he should be captain of the football team.
mircea_popescu: (in fact, the predicate for "Get a lot of mass in a little bit of volume" is entirely "push out a whole lot of angular mommentum")
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, that is powered by the black star's angular mommentum. only noob black stars have any angular mommentum
Mocky: i'm not seeing the partial seems like trying full integration
mircea_popescu: but anyway, since we're doing astrophysics : the largest conceivable power plant / ecological disaster would be, of course, collapsing galactic objects (ie, stars) into galaxy cores (ie, black holes, practically). for instance, pushing the sun into saggitarius would conceivably yield a gross of about 10^40 or so J in a relatively short timespan. certainly wouldn't cost as much. (an intermediate step to this being http://trile
lobbes: In other "the logs had it first", I just investigated a barf I received on an emerge and exclaimed "who are these orcs@gentoo.org that are masking gcc < 5.4??". I must've missed this thread entirely >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-30#1761183
mircea_popescu: Mocky, you realise, everyone's model revolves around wrapping zeks. it's just that the democrats are (mostly, unexamiedly) partialists while we're absolutists.
Mocky: like the search term was just a mild suggestion, will show if feels like it, or better yet ad from sponsor
Mocky: I've noticed lately that google has some results that it damn well doesn't want to give me... all the results say "missing search term" for what ever I searched for, even when I put a + infront. but it *has* my results and if i repeat the search term 3 or for times in the query eventually relents and shows me
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 14:30 mircea_popescu: build vacupack units, keep them fed with biomaterial (plastic, schmucks), dump the results at sea. a 100tdw ship should be able to carry 1mn of the shitheads at a time.
mircea_popescu: Mocky, the general purpose of google / the rest of the imperial attempts at colonizing the web revolve around the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1733995 process, except built out of "your interests" rather than plastic.
mircea_popescu: (in some models there's an upper bound on black hole size about 10^40 or so, but w/e, let's not get THAT technical)
mircea_popescu: "volume is third power proportion of radius ; [schwarzschild] radius is first power proportion of mass ; therefore mass divided by volume is 2nd power inverse proportion of mass"
mircea_popescu: (re hydrogen, for the young'uns : the only stable state in material system of universe is black hole. which is why black hole is even important theoretically -- universe having stable state means it won't last)
asciilifeform late evening, listening to elderly ukrs derp on shortwave re horror of their neet chillunz derping on ipnojes; where to read re antennae design; putin.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 17:26 mircea_popescu: if and only if everyone's in chains, then and then only can you be entirely sure nobody's linked two z80 chips together and cycling "alf is a pooperhead" back and forth between them.
mircea_popescu: the problem of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817790 has a very ready converse, as i'm sure you realised.
mircea_popescu: and there's a necessary portion that has to always run that way (also per goedel).
mircea_popescu: then again, unlike the various jew outlets, mircea_popescu actually dominates the portions of the empire where the empire tries or is forced to interact with reality
asciilifeform: the h can float for a while; it isn't as if intelligent heathen will find mircea_popescu by reading arsebook/nyt/whichever volkischer beobachter
mircea_popescu: either it's in the process of killing the host or else in the process of getting pissed out ; there's no third.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, how are they to ~stay~ in the state ? see, that's the thing, "free floating hydrogen" as a theoretical possibility. sure, why not. "free floating hydrogen as a STABLE STATE"... well... no such theoretical possibility. it can't be a stable state for very clear reasons.
asciilifeform allows for theoretical possibility of honest folx writing 'into desks'
mircea_popescu: "sadly, in some fields there's only enumerable stable states, once not-in-1, then-in-other becomes unavoidable." there's no such thing as clever honest man-alone.
asciilifeform: i have him filed in my head as a victim of the 'goldbug disease' (i.e. pissed that btc stole 'their' lightning, in idjit tilt and consorting with enemy ever since )
mircea_popescu: anyways, whatever. who cares about yet another "52 M Dom" fetlife profile ? he never was more than that.
mircea_popescu: lately clueless dweebs to the original works.
mircea_popescu: anyway, lulzy that his links are https://archive.li/o/yNOSl/https://youexec.com/dev/2017/1/14/google-facebook-ads-traffic-is-useless rather than trilema.com/2015/heres-what-you-dont-know-or-understand-about-facebook-everything/ trilema.com/2015/facebook-sends-traffic11eleven/ etcetera, even though only some of the authors are experts in the field ; but then again ever since i knew him it was obvious he prefers the johny come
asciilifeform: bonuslulz : 'I’d posit that any blockchain type who can’t find productive employment on socially useful projects or isn’t in danger of financial independence either doesn’t feel like working, doesn’t care about money or doesn’t actually know anything about blockchain. In the former cases you can’t recruit them, and in the latter case, you really shouldn’t.'
asciilifeform: ( crackpot browser with micropay-somethingorother built in )
asciilifeform: bonus: the item he linked as dayjob, is ~indistinguishable from dogecoin
mircea_popescu: dude suffered for a while from this "i don't wanna X!!!" syndrome, as if anyone was in any danger of asking anything like it. "i don't wanna go to the prom!!!" "fatty... who's asking you to ?!"
mircea_popescu: anyway, seems to me the piece is pure wank, "here's things i say about women i supposedly fucked in the hope anyone reading thinks i ever get laid".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, sadly in some fields there's only enumerable stable states, once not-in-1, then-in-other becomes unavoidable.
asciilifeform: in other entomo-horrors, https://archive.li/yNOSl << for all i ever said in defense of this d00d -- will have to take it back; he's gone full tard
mod6: and the only cure is MOAR COWBELL
lobbesbot: lobbes: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: who could have predicted people don't stop shitting just because "the people" is unprepared to handle it.
asciilifeform: there was another scandal where it was found that latrines clogged , never fixed, and the grunts shat right off the maintenance gangway onto the rocket. but i can't be arsed to dig for it.
asciilifeform: '“They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country, one official familiar with the contents of the reports said Thursday. No one had checked in years “to see if new tools were being made,” the official said. This was one of many maintenance problems that had “been around so long that no one reported them anymore.”'
asciilifeform: forfuckssake this WAS in the log.
asciilifeform: 'Senior leaders meet with industry to discuss utilizing artificial intelligence and quantum science throughout the Air Force'
asciilifeform: this ~not~ in re the lsd. but apparently some other lulz, https://archive.li/e7ma7 , where burglar alarm went off.
asciilifeform: containing, i shit thee not, a twatter feed, even, with words '“The public was never in danger and the safety and security of the Minuteman system was never in doubt,” said Col. Matthew Dillow, 90th Missile Wing vice commander.'
asciilifeform: i have nfi. they're supposed to have a few choppers, apc's, etc. on top of the usual trucks.
mircea_popescu: do they test the grunts and only admit those who take up the girls for more than 8 mins at a time ?
asciilifeform: claim is that they're 8min drive away, iirc. ( what happens if >1 tube rings alarm? stop asking, terrorist )
asciilifeform: phunphakt, unlike ye olde su, usg does not station permanent guards around the land launchers; only chain link fence with alarm; there's 1 set of guards per N tubes and they gotta drive to it when bell rings.
mircea_popescu: "nobody cares" might be the hardest thing to grok.
asciilifeform: the land-based rockets are a joke within a joke, even usg assigns the saddest sacks of sads, explicitly, to the detail
mircea_popescu: much like byzantines imagined mongols come over to steal the "true cross" because it's so fucking valuable in their eyes. because how couldn't it be. and so on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, you don't understand. the principal wank of ustarded princess is that ~someonew wants her useless snatch~.
asciilifeform: ( thermite-welding the hatch closed also worx wonders, asciilifeform's father as a grunt in su was trained for, among others, this party trick )
asciilifeform: because 'intruder/attacker' will do something other than drop a frag in the shaft and leave.
asciilifeform: lol re 'February 2016 photo, members of the 790th Missile Security Forces Squadron demonstrate their training for recapturing a Minuteman missile silo after being taken over by an intruder/attacker'
mircea_popescu: o look, all the noobs!
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: shinohai: if yer gonna do the 'i have own parallel qntra' thing nao, at least try to 'scoop' the events ~before~
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 19:33 mod6: In other we-totally-know-what-we're-doing-news: http://archive.is/8Hun5
asciilifeform: we can leave fleanode to the worms and flies , and jump into pizzarro + mircea_popescu's box + wherever else , within a day of mircea_popescu giving signal.
trinque: mquin (~mike@freenode/staff/mquin): :[Global Notice] Seems that was premature. There are ongoing issues with services that are being looked into - please bear with us << asciilifeform shaping fleanode policy now too!
trinque: looks like I got a few notices about them herping with NickServ
asciilifeform: either that, or goodnight fleanode ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, they're notoriously bad at erorr messages.
trinque: are the dashes a fake account?
mircea_popescu: MOST of these "need 5000 miners and 3000 forgers and 120 assemblers" etc are gone now.
mircea_popescu: that's the point here. consider 1950s process to make fighter jet. "iron ore is in ground -- must be taken to conveyor belt by hand because no sewing machine sophisticated enough to do this yet" ; then conveyor belted all the way to furnace, but "has to be poured by hand because no machine" ; then "has to be polished by hand because no machine". and so on.
asciilifeform: incidentally asciilifeform was going through notebooks and found a theoretical nugget that iirc hasn't been posted. 1w of shortwave, using the error code discussed in prev thread, can propagate trans-continentally ( i.e. easily new york to montevideo ) . and can easily come out of unattended ( solar, thermal-charged ) box , at ~day intervals, hanging from tree in woods, illicitly glued into wall at tower construction site, etc
mircea_popescu: and operator will do what operator does and there you go.
mircea_popescu: but yes, evidently they can. this was after all the fucking point of even fabricating fgs / getting isp up etc : we CAN, as a factual matter, operate.
mircea_popescu: the claim was rather whether ~enough~ drones of ~sufficient~ quality can be built on short enough interval ~by single person~.\
trinque: I said this in the log-line that linked it
asciilifeform: trinque: for these, you want motorcycle motor, at most
trinque: in response to whether one man could hit many targets himself
asciilifeform: ( tupolev -- solved. supposedly. but still resulted in massively lower power/mass than petrol engine of the period. )
trinque: I proposed the manufacturing process for *drones*
mircea_popescu: trinque, i have serious reservations re an item with broken design. it's a little bit like reading ancient greek imaginary descriptions of places "they heard exist", i have trouble digesting.
asciilifeform: auto engine not only not built for the type of load ( and , srsly, what will do , gearbox it to the prop ?! ) , but hasn't the redundancies that even in 1920s flyers correctly insisted on ( e.g. two separate magneto )
asciilifeform: trinque: mostly orthogonally to this thread , your linked airplane maker pattern matches the chilean fortress vapour-scamola
mircea_popescu: but the statement made, "x -- impossible" is very different from the correct, "x -- will take some doing"
mircea_popescu: so there you go.
mircea_popescu: for instance earlioer -- i was enjoying a bowl of delicious soup made yesterday. kitten slings by, pours herself a bowl too. then she discovers -- a dead beetle in there. it's beetle season, they're crazy. under pemra lights there's an inch thick beetle soil.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-07 20:01 asciilifeform: observe, the problem dun exist if you already have your own pyongyang and can happily put a megawatt station there and invite whoever objects, to pound sand up his arse
mircea_popescu: the cognitive articulation of the complaint is thus : 1. i understand deeply the trees of implications of a few simple rules (ref http://trilema.com/2018/technology-and-governance/ ) ; 2. i apprehend a novel object and create a mental model for it ; 3. i discover perceptible reality does not play well with the product of 2 ; 4. i complain.
asciilifeform: rrright because when asciilifeform's fab house sent back proto-FG repeatedly with poor reflow and dud analogue board, asciilifeform complains 'from certain mental structure' and not because imbeciles all the way down like turtles on elephants.
asciilifeform: try and see with others.
trinque: who knows, pretty detailed videos the guy's posting
trinque: they're claiming 25k ft max altitude, as per specs page
asciilifeform: ( why not make chopper, then. could even work. )
asciilifeform: trinque: side q -- does the linked d00d ever explain how he gets the 'audi v6' engine to avoid icing, and to breathe air at altitude ?
trinque: rednecks rebuild junkyard engines all the livelong day, if we're seriously imagining that suddenly we're back to grand soviet ideas and only buran makes toilets, space ships, dildos
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, because i am the only one here who actually made physical objects in qty, lol
mircea_popescu: eh, i don't imagine anyone but alf could seriously contemplate the "fabrication difficulties". gimme a break, i can and have bought machining tools that'd have been worth "hal;f the empire" in 1935 for a pittance. they make complex shaped metal sheets, and are cheap as fuck
asciilifeform: the wings were 'easy' part of airplane even prior to cnc & fiber.
trinque: all I'm pointing to is the c&c milling + carbon fiber process he's using, not the design of the plane
mircea_popescu: the commie notion of "den of prostitution" as fit to put on film... o brother. RIGHT THERE is why driving TR past any value the idiots could survive is 100% justified.
asciilifeform: no. if we're doing 'can stalin make planes faster than hitler can shoot'em down, using only own minerals' scaling down to garage, you do NOT get to do the '3d printer' enthusiast thing and conveniently exclude copper coils in motors etc.
asciilifeform: trinque: d00d makes the engine also ?
trinque: if any of them had the sense to stop at the scale model and make that a drone instead, there you go.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818220 << http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/ << leaving aside the various herpityderp, this guy absolutely is making an item that flies, and plenty of "experimental aircraft" folks make the same "in garage" all the time
mircea_popescu: hence "the rape of berlin".
mircea_popescu: "deserted hinterland" is never approximation of "world depopulated of idiots", because the former is deserted ~because everyone chose to move somewhere else~, and the smart are more capable of enforcing that choice ; whereas the latter is deserted ~because idiots were killed~.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 17:29 mircea_popescu: instead of you having to contend with 5mn other idiots trying to live in the same state ; you have to contend with only 50k. as a result, all real estate available consists of plots in excess of 50 acres, which include a creek, and forest. goes for the same price as you pay now, but it is what it is.
mircea_popescu: phf, is there a lot of romanesque, scifi etcetera work missing from your blog ?
asciilifeform: 'the pack ice around our misfortunate vessel presses in, the hull strums like a banjo, lately in a quite martial tone'
phf: "month 12, i BingoBoingo will marry my daughter and with her start the most pure blood line" etc. etc.
phf: "month 6 in this godless, accursed land. last night as the fever broke the captain died, since the chaplain died a month ago, the men had to hold service, however sparse it was"
mircea_popescu: and even if there were.
asciilifeform: well 'dubious' is a bit soft; there was no deathray
mircea_popescu: this is altogether dubious.
asciilifeform: recall, incidentally, n. tesla's crackpot screen re 'death ray will make small serbia the equal of titan germany and france'
mircea_popescu: this is the sort of objection that can only be resolved by historians.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun object in re the thermodynamics , but re the kinetics. we ain't there. yet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i'm just picking on him. but anyway -- very large leverages are in fact both experimentally demonstrated and theoretically predicted. and the "someone else" argument is not germane -- i didn't specify who joe is ; if you object to my presumption that you'd be willing to work by including you, by all means, we could say sally instead. you think that does anything ?
BingoBoingo: Well, the thing about ad copy is you gotta have economy of words. Last place you want eyes glazing over is where you are selling.
ben_vulpes: gonna work it more or should i pick it up from here? fine starting point i think (will wait for contradiction), i can fill in the details.
BingoBoingo: But the idea is as more offerings happen, (2nd shared account machine, etc) the page structure has room to eat them.
BingoBoingo: It could do with more links to "how to" pages including the most current Republican GPG setup guide
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/24/draft-pizarro-shared-hosting-ad-copy/ << Bingo Blog - Draft Pizarro Shared Hosting Ad Copy
asciilifeform: anything whatsoever is possible, and with the illusion of infinity, if somebody else does the work.
mircea_popescu: other than this, "infinite" is not required. just a large enough factor, but 9 digits are far from "infinity"
mircea_popescu: it is not. consider -- i can (even thouigh ben_vulpes apparently can't) spin up endless instances of whatever boxen, notwithstanding "such a thing as the self-packing os was posed by neumann and stays where it was posed" bla bla.
asciilifeform: it's entailed by the 'infinite leverage from finite hands with machinery' item.
asciilifeform: errybody loves the theoretical possibility, of 'robot army'; but afaik the problem of 'self-copying robot' (specifically iron, vs meat) was posed by von neumann and remains exactly in same place today as where he left it.
mircea_popescu: there's 0 utility to 99% of the us population, in economic terms. there's ~maybe~ some sexual utility in 9%. but 90% can be ablated today and without adverse effects.
mircea_popescu: robotization is a fact ; modern factories don't need workers ; and the robots are not made by fucking hand, no.
asciilifeform: this is not the point of disagreement; rather the 'gigantic populations are obsolete' item
mircea_popescu: some of the things that don't work don't work because no you/joe, and some don't work because IN SPITE of you-joe there werealso some orcs involved.
mircea_popescu: no item that works, now or ever, was produced through ANY OTHER MEANS than the you-joe method discussed above. not EVER.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, if you think the robots are maintained by orcs...
mircea_popescu: no, you do it with machinery, as everything everywhere. that's what "modern" means, that the per-capita productivity is not actually finite.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 06:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it. much like your finger cannot function for long or very usefully unless attached to the rest of you << so very aptly put.
asciilifeform: sometimes i wonder whether mircea_popescu is posting from a far alt-fyootoor where software actually works, where robots actually maintain selves, rather than being the end product of 500 people working around the clock, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-26#935358
mircea_popescu: they're all in "government" offices going "Gimme" in a chorus. what fucking "hands" ?
mircea_popescu: the trashing the orclands get at our hands every fucking time we deign to rape them is not enough model of how this'd go ? joe from two states down will just send you some free molybdenum because fuck those orcs, and besides, you gave him a painting last year
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would you even need a price, you're friends.
asciilifeform: joe from two states down can't agree on the price. and we both get encircled and hang. or he's using his moly to make kitchen knives to sell to orcs , it's +ev for him, he thinks. or, other possible variants.
mircea_popescu: sure, you don't. the reason you don't is cuz you didn't put one in. nothing else.
asciilifeform: i dun have a molybdenum mine in house. or the rest, etc
mircea_popescu: see, that's the meaning of stalin-couldn't, by 80s, feasible.
asciilifeform: why? because neighbours started the party, why.
mircea_popescu: and why the fuck would you do that.
mircea_popescu: we're simply talking of killing most everyone, and using the space like people rather than like rats.
mircea_popescu: instead of you having to contend with 5mn other idiots trying to live in the same state ; you have to contend with only 50k. as a result, all real estate available consists of plots in excess of 50 acres, which include a creek, and forest. goes for the same price as you pay now, but it is what it is.
asciilifeform: the bread, baked here
mircea_popescu: and you bought these at supermarket ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i think you misunderstood the "let's hunt".
mircea_popescu: that "person in charge" doesn't know this, speaks as to the incredible decay of explicit understanding -- by the time you lack the words and preformed expressions to describe necessity you've fallen into pre-literate times ; unequal to herodotus.
asciilifeform: sorta why cherokee-style 'let's hunt' doesn't work , the folx who can fly choppers will pick you off, leisurely, with thermovisor and downward flechette rounds right through the tree cover.
mircea_popescu: whether you go "everyone takes exam, bottom 10% get hung by those poles in schoolyard" or you go "nobody has to do anything and i can't explain all this cutting and anorexia", it makes entirely no difference.
mircea_popescu: understand, such a thing as teenage female suicide is not known in classical works. it only appears once the need for the pressure to perform appears, at high enough tech densities.
mircea_popescu: because ro kids did -- various hung selves 18yo females can attest. and it is the ~only reason romania is ever mentioned by name this century.
mircea_popescu: when's the last time a bearer of us passport confronted a "be this tall or die" dilemma ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, because they're not at ALL serious about "clever".
mircea_popescu: yes it is. but the argument presented is specious in either reading -- there's no "neighbours overrun", and if there is -- the proposed measures did nothing about it.
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'tiny but clever population standing up to maxint orcs by way of robot and deathray' is ~the~ american geofantasy; isn't working out so well for them
mircea_popescu: but populace eminently is not the criteria, which is why the "totally not a dating site" "community" of fetlife can't stand up to... me.
mircea_popescu: if populace was the criteria, should have applied for admission as chinese ssr in 1972.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, you are sitting there seriously proposing to me that a man-and-his-bushels uranium mining op is more productive than a mechanized item ?
asciilifeform: the populous neighbours overrun you, game ends, gotta restart civ1...
asciilifeform: lol hunt. and hunt wild tank and wild uranium on the hoof, yes
asciilifeform: ( stalin had the 'purge excess meat' thing down to fine art, but he never approached 20% much less 90 )
mircea_popescu: nobody says the land must be worked. fucking hunt.
mircea_popescu: and fucking stay there.
mircea_popescu: the ~punishment~ for ~failure~ to perform exceptionally well would have been a one way ticket to jeansland.
mircea_popescu: and then enforced it.
mircea_popescu: anyway --- if i ran the moscow polytechnic, the advertisement would have been "either make it in the 1% or else we will paradop you in america, or whatever other african shithole you belong to".
asciilifeform: imho they're usefully separable species
asciilifeform: but wanking together in circle jerk, or pairwise.
mircea_popescu: i just see it as wankers, the sort that could participate but doesn't.
asciilifeform: i usually picture 'whisperers' as , graphtheoretically, a noncomplete clique
mircea_popescu: lose 90% of the population over a five year plan.
mircea_popescu: and you're thinking of the wrong side of this. nevermind -1 hruschev. think -1 yuri derpopovich herpopov. all 50 mn of them. not "prevent emigration", but dump at sea ~everyone.
mircea_popescu: understand though -- they were ALL WHISPERERS.
asciilifeform: hey they also had it, at one point the l1 got together and all went ;;rate -1 hruschev old fart
mircea_popescu: and kinda why they're stuck with the "legitimacy" mechanism, "gadaffi is not the legitimate owner of syria"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, kinda why we have the negrate mechanism. cheap and effectual, better than any kalash.
mircea_popescu: either of which is a perfectly acceptable solution, but one of which MUST always be deployed.
asciilifeform: i still suspect that it would not have been winnable even if closer game ratiowise; it went almost like the smallpox-vs-indians item. orc konsoomer had no immune cells against veblenism and 200+yrs of fine chumpatronics perfected in the west
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, this understanding nevertheless does NOT relieve the soviet brass from having had to and having failed to either a) produce something alternatative for them to sing or b) shoot them all, a la maduro.
mircea_popescu: anyway. so the rate that'd have allowed soviet industry a positive epsilon return on capital goods was cca 10-20:1 in 1992 (depending how and what you sort) and the "tourist rate" was 60:1. bingo.
asciilifeform: ('today you're playing jazz, tomorrow you'll be selling out your motherland')
mircea_popescu: of course it is. much like anyone with head out of ass sees apple as apple. wtf would they have seen it as.
asciilifeform: this is (uncontroversially) how su brass saw the proverbial 'import jeans'
mircea_popescu: otherwise, same processes were supposed to work the same way ; and most of the peripheral agents not in the "need to know" bubble are even to thsi day claiming they worked as supposed.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had an old piece about the mechanics of dope 'pushing' . where 'pusher' ~creates~, rather than satisfies (as per classical economic model a merchant might) appetites
mircea_popescu: the only unexpected element is the discovery that the population of fucktards ~wasn't actually relevant~ for the republic.
mircea_popescu: now, the "creation" of "ethereum" is entirely out of the playbook of clinton "bringing rock'n'roll dollars to moscow" or mp bringing dollars to buenos aires etc.
asciilifeform can see with unarmed eye that they weren't
mircea_popescu: the people involved weren't ~stupid~, see. notwithstanding what the officious jews "all agreed".
mircea_popescu: i said before that the principal question of the 80s was "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, "but is it made here ?". this'd be why.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oh hey is this what was behind the 'viermi neadormiti' remark ??
mircea_popescu: this is called "inefficiency", but it's not industrial inefficiency, it's socially-mediated pseudo-inefficiency created by the Ps deliberately (if "unknowingly") choking out I because they;'ve decided they want their country dead.
mircea_popescu: should you do that, you'll have a directly addressable measure of wrecking : the Ps will push the TR above the level where I can finance its import needs out of the receipts for its exports.
mircea_popescu: now, the needs of I are relatively fixed ; the "needs" of P vary. should P decide that it only wants import goods, you may be tempted to create a "tourist" rate for the foreign currency