mircea_popescu: generally the bias is towards heavy users, not noobs.
mircea_popescu: the value of "i forgot what this is" gotta balance with the value of "this is impossible to fucking type".
mircea_popescu: i would not object to !!paying whatever pittance my needs may drive me to, and if it's not a pittance i'll either change the needs or be thankful for the useful service.
mircea_popescu: and if it ~is~ resource intensive, implement it anyway, publish a way for user to evaluate cost, and charge them like lobbes ' auctionbot. monthly or w/e.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 15:51 trinque: idea being "rockchip blobless scope:15" would bring you to anywhere those terms are within 15 lines of each other
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 15:47 phf: so an intermediate step that someone else could perform is to take your rockchip gentoo, generate new rsa pair, sign the kernel with pub, patch google's uboot with priv and get a clean booting rockchip gentoo setup, without accidentally bricking the device? (while still retaining known amount of google in the system)
mircea_popescu: trinque, regrind is the time to rename, huh.
mircea_popescu: i'll spare you the "wtf have you been doing thus far". this time.
spyked: mircea_popescu, no, not yet. it's next on the todo list.
trinque: the code I have is to provide the voicing service, which isn't useful for your purposes, but will certainly be released at some point
spyked: trinque, re. voice and other trilema-bot functionality, I'd like to take a look at the code you have if you're willing to share.
mircea_popescu: ie, as a general rule, always start with the more general parts.
spyked: mircea_popescu, okay. the rss bot needs self-voicing, command prefixes et al., so it's eventually going to come further down in the tree, on top of them.
mircea_popescu: pipp8, read the logs.
pipp8: thanks, Hi all, I'm a little noob about bitcoin, so I'm sorry, But from your website thebitcoin.fundation I can read you still use bitcoin 0.54(or 0.53 official with bug solved) why you have choose this version? what succesive implementations wasn't in line with your thinking?? you don't want?
mircea_popescu: do me a favour and don't wait on the voice part so as to dump it together with the rss part, either.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 13:29 phf: back in the canonical log days, i'd patch the name in the logs, but since we're past that i think it can be left as is, unless there are objections as far as log authenticity.
trinque: sure, but whether the same patch hunk ended up in two places is computable, interesting in a patch-viewer sense, not in a vtron-operation sense
mircea_popescu: trinque, i dunno that they're to be tracked, it'd be 100% elbow grease of the porter and his beard.
mircea_popescu: this'd take some doing, conceivably, but the someone in question may find the answer to "import or rewrite" favourable on the import side.
mircea_popescu: for instance : bitcoinfs may be found useful by someone storing flac muzak. they'd then copy it from its original tmsr-os / trb tree, and put it in their gp-os / torrent tree.
mircea_popescu: or can have special purpose osen in other ways, and end up with lone trees.
spyked was thinking, will "the (one and only) v tree" end up eating everything?
trinque: there's a cultural thing here that just came into view. the work will be regrinding until there's fewer and fewer disjunct trees.
mircea_popescu: that's even why eucrypt doesn't want to be outside of the tree of its dependencies, after all.
trinque: I suppose I should've said instead "had there been a gnat v-tree, eucrypt would never find itself in a position where gnat had moved, and nobody can find the gnat to build eucrypt"
spyked: mircea_popescu, then if they're separate branches and if I want to make purely hypothetical spykedbot that does both? would end up with patch with two antecedents, should v press that? should I regrind?
mircea_popescu: trinque, not the end of the world, the "author1 thionks author2 is an idiot" can be very mild indeed, "i didn't like the patchlength, collapsed some and regenesised"
mircea_popescu: (the realisation that v-tree management is a lot like playing tetris should probably hit just about now)
mircea_popescu: spyked, why is trilemabot on top of logbot instead of on the side of logbot ?
spyked: mircea_popescu, but say I have a similar itcbot vtree, with logbot on top. then top of it I include trilemabot (handling self-voicing et al.), then on top of that rss bot. then if I want to use rss bot but not logbot (which don't depend on each other), how would I go about that?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-09 14:31 mircea_popescu: a right. hanbot do me a favour : download ~only~ those patches which are in the leftmost trunk seen on phf's viewer (so exclude vtools_vdiff_sha, and its dependents) and try to flow again ?
mircea_popescu: and yes, "the complete tree of all patches ever downstream from tmsr-os genesis" will include ~everything~ we ever made, and there's nothing wrong with that ; and people not caring to keep the complete patchset will keep whatever subs they want, exactly like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-09#1794613
mircea_popescu: but should eg, bitcoin-fs be written, then yes trb will exist in the same tree as bitcoin-fs. and should we go as low as tmsr-os, then yes, tmsr-os as genesis will have bitcoin-fs patchzone and then trb patchzone after that. and people wanting to use bitcoinfs for something else can just press up to there and no further. and projects wanting to import bitcoinfs but not trb will just build off that height of tree, and continue
trinque: I don't see that eucrypt code includes the ada compiler? why not?
mircea_popescu: afaik ben_vulpes made one and trinque the other or somesuch. in general, the cause for this is author1 thinks author2 is an idiot.
spyked: mircea_popescu, then I dun understand why http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot the disjoint graph on the right
mircea_popescu: if it were the case that item has >1 dependency, oi1..n, then it would have been resolved by a) picking one and b) introducing as patches into that tree all otheritems 1..n-1.
mircea_popescu: this is factually incorrect. from "item has 1 dependency : otheritem" it follows strictly that item will be a succession of patches on otheritem tree.
spyked: mircea_popescu, lemme try to restate the thing as I see it. the rss bot doesn't make changes to ircbot, it's a new thing that uses ircbot as a dependency. so from this follows (in my mind, so pls to say if broken!) that the new thing will be a genesis.
mircea_popescu: i don't even know what fucking line. what line ? it's either a genesis or a patchset. that's thje fucking line. what other line ?!
trinque: I think he's asking where the line is drawn
spyked: more to the point: there is a relation between ircbot and the rss bot, but I'm not sure it would make sense for v to enforce that.
spyked: mircea_popescu, the rss bot would branch the ircbot tree then. if trinque or mircea_popescu see any reason for adding rss bot on top of ircbot, I see no reason not to, but it would be disjoint item (i.e. only file changed would be manifest)
lobbesbot: douchebag: Sent 4 hours and 32 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> if you think the faux-camwhores approach will work to make a 'backup' identity for self, this time with new flavouring -- 1) it won't 2) drop it 3) this is good road to -10
spyked: mircea_popescu, it is going to be separate item, but based on ircbot. can't be an extension of ircbot, for the same reason logbot can't be (some people might not wanna put a rsstron into their ircbot)
mircea_popescu: and the fact that i have to ask at all, let alone i have to re-ask after an hour's conversation is a very strong marker for a poorly organized mind. you're supposed to know what you're doing, what!
mircea_popescu: so, is the rss bot ~something you're extending irc bot into~ or ~something you're writing de novo~. one and only one may be the case.
mircea_popescu: but be that as it may : there's always going to be good and bad arguments for whatever choice ; but that has no bearing on the fact that you must still choose, and at the time of choice not at whatever time it may occur to you to.
mircea_popescu: is it that you're writing a new item ? is it that you're extending an extant one ? this is decided FIRST. not "as we go along, and then changed".
mircea_popescu: spyked, yes, but you have to pick something at some point. you can't be doing everything at the same time.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-02 11:03 spyked: speaking of which; to all ircbot users: I have a patch proposal for ircbot (and possibly logbot). the problem: nickserv authentication makes a distinction between "nickname" and "user". this allows e.g. to group multiple irc bots (with different nicks) under a single username and cloak. so my proposal is to add a new *optional* "user" slot to ircbot and use it for auth instead of "nick" when available
a111: Logged on 2018-04-03 19:46 spyked: mircea_popescu, it's good timing, since I've been doing some reading ircbot code and comparing with my own implementation. I've actually been contemplating http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-26#1786288 and rolling my own was not a wholly useless endeavour, i.e. http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#selection-322.0-322.5 so I'll document the whole thing on the blog.
mircea_popescu: "obviously" and "implicitly" are not nearly as friendly as they may seem ; especially in this context.
spyked: mircea_popescu, which "this"? my reading ircbot, or the implication regarding v?
mircea_popescu: think : if you take the time to say, i don't have to take the time to later ask. it's a penny saved, aka earned.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 21:02 spyked: dependencies explicitly; this is already the case in the bot's .asd file), or c. add rss bot as set of patches onto ircbot.
trinque: we can't put each descendent class in every parent's v-tree, or there's one v-tree for the whole world
trinque: it'd have to; I can write a class that extends n other classes.
spyked: the reason I was first set off by mircea_popescu's question was that it led me to "what implication do lisp modules (packages?) have for v? is each module/package supposed to have its own v tree?"
mircea_popescu: "here's how i expect this to be used : a) ircbot is a basic class ; b) logbot is an extension of it ; c) if you're ever making a rss bot, scavenge the relevant parts off logbot, and put a different vtree on top of ircbot"
trinque: it's a descendent class thereof
trinque: the proper place to do that is not at all ircbot
mircea_popescu: spyked, so then you were actually going to " writing de novo" ?
spyked: my thought re trilema spec is having something along the lines of a "trilbot" that performs some of the basic scaffolding (self-voicing and command prefix parsing).
trinque: ok, so lets have the thread!
spyked takes this lesson. will make his pre/post-work communication happen (as explicitly as possible) in the future.
mircea_popescu: all this communication you opt to not do when it costs you a dime a page i then have to do later, at the cost of a dollar a word. it's fucking bs, save me money.
mircea_popescu: poor communication with the exterior and poor structuring of the internal process. no, it's not AT ALL the same fucking thing, oh, x is vaguely related to y so let's call it all z." the point isn't to make stu over here.
trinque: spyked: hasn't to do with the publishing and signing yet. open source is shit precisely because every idiot comes in and does his own thing without talking to the last guy
mircea_popescu: instead you just dump an endless pile of diffs that a) do multiple unrelated things and b) don't even betray any awareness of the process involved in all of this.
mircea_popescu: it means this : that instead of explicitly communicating state, a. "i r making rss bot" ; b. "hey trinque wtf, ircbot doesn't do voicing ?" ; c. "o well, stopped making rss bot, making voice module for ircbot to be able to make rss bot later" and THEN 1. pushing a voice patch to ircbot BEFORE d. "back to making rss bot"
mircea_popescu: o brother. what is this, spyked's friendly fuzzing service ?
mircea_popescu: do you have a value for "doing the polarbeard stupid" ? can you explain what it is ?
spyked: no, what I mean is really, couldn't evaluate the metaphor in this context. /me admits to being overly thick.
mircea_popescu: THAT is the process. right there. what are you doing, on whose thing, etcetera. it's entirely univocal, what.
mircea_popescu: understand, the only reason we even fucking rewrite things is because the imperial "item of unknown ownership, provenance and parentage" breaks republican process.
spyked: mircea_popescu, trinque, aha, now I get my miscommunication. but I confess to being confused by the "value for $x" question.
trinque: there's a whole thread on whether or not "fuck you, I'm not marrying bot commands to postgresql" we're denying posterity here
ben_vulpes: hey BingoBoingo would you apply the same razor you applied to the landing page copy to the rest of the copy on the pizarro site?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 12:38 spyked: so eventually I expect some of the rss bot components (e.g. command handling, self-voicing) to evolve into standalone scaffolding for #trilema bots that implements a decent subset of http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/
mircea_popescu: spyked, it was obvious you were going to implement voicing to make rss bot ? and it was also obvious that you're going to switch state from "making rss bot" to "implementing voice for ircbot so i can proceed with making rssbot", so you didn't announce that either. do you have a value for $x ?
trinque: he should extend the thing with a subclass that implements deedbot auth, yeah, but recall deedbot auth service is itself down the tree from ircbot
spyked: mircea_popescu, in the same sense that logbot is a logging module for ircbot, yes. that would mean b (in the a, b, c above)
mircea_popescu: if you ask "well, am i extending something or writing de novo", you're participating. if you're doing anything else, you're wanking about ; an activity entirely undistinguishable from chatting up the starbucks waitress or braying under the full moon.
mircea_popescu: when i say "wank" i'm not just using a word for the purpose of filling a conversational hole. that's what wank fucking is, "any activity proceeding without having considered that question".
spyked: dependencies explicitly; this is already the case in the bot's .asd file), or c. add rss bot as set of patches onto ircbot.
spyked: mircea_popescu, I'm not sure what you mean. lemme explain: the rss bot depends on ircbot and other pieces (some imported from heathenlands, some written by scratch from yours truly). from my reading so far, (e.g. diana_coman's use of MPI in Eucrypt) I dun see this as a strictly solved problem. I could a. make a new genesis consisting of ircbot + rss bot + all dependencies, or b. genesis rss bot alone (and mention ircbot + all others as
mircea_popescu: that's the first step.
mircea_popescu: then you've done nothing.
spyked: trinque, that wasn't implied in the discussion.
spyked: mircea_popescu, i haven't thought about that yet. but needless to say, the bot depends on many pieces that are not v-ified (and for that matter also does ircbot).
trinque: an RSS shitting IRC bot is not bigger than the mind can take wtf
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 12:53 spyked: as far as I can see, this first writing pass exposes incorrect assumptions about e.g. data structures and how they're used. if this keeps happening, then it might be that the problem is larger than the mind can chew on in one take.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818705 << either that or, usually the case, the mind has bad habits it shall have to discard.
mircea_popescu: (neither of these options is good. if the former, why the fuck doing the polarbeard stupid, what, not read the logs ? if the latter, umm...)
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 12:31 spyked: but I knew how the rss bot design should look (I wrote up a draft before starting the implementation), the problem was rather fitting it up with all the "imported" elements.
mircea_popescu: trying to maintain this supposed difference between what you do and who you are is exactly how the office drones manage to use a whole life doing exactly nothing whatsoever. all their juice went to the gap.
mircea_popescu: no. write good code from the get go. there's no room here for "oh, this is the code i wrote, but it's not really who i am". it fucking is who you are, irrespective of what the monkey may be saying in your ear. THAT is what you are.
mircea_popescu: i expect 80% of the cases of "oh, i am being asked too much, this republic sucks" come from exactly this inept "oh, i won't do a good job, and wait for time to resolve it". yes, time will resolve it, but odds are the solution will hurt the butt.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 12:25 ave1: Or just live with it until the stress becomes big enough that you'll have to do something.
mircea_popescu: ave1, i'm not advanced enough to make much of a teacher ; but commercial speech is a discipline unto itself. i suppose one approach is to keep track of what seduces you and why ; and others. eventually you end up with some kind of mental image.
trinque: if Mocky were here I'd ask him if he sees the problem yet
a111: Logged on 2014-11-06 20:34 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: in practice - i am what i am.
asciilifeform: trinque: d00d seems to suffer from some bizarre compulsion, to leave the 'am what i am' clue
asciilifeform: ftr asciilifeform bit through the camwhores nonsense after shot #3 or so
trinque: ah, could just as well be some other derp. plenty of solipsists around
asciilifeform: !Q later tell douchebag if you think the faux-camwhores approach will work to make a 'backup' identity for self, this time with new flavouring -- 1) it won't 2) drop it 3) this is good road to -10
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
trinque: there it was
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818824 << what's this, the tagline for your line of self-help podcasts?
trinque: KernelKhaos: didn't you drop by as some other cutesy nick?
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818722, I'm in the last rounds (building gnat-musl using gnat-musl on aarch64). The last part is the slowest (I have one core for it). Also, for some reason the download sites are becoming unstable, I had to change one and it just failed on another.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 20:51 BingoBoingo: And to top it all off, as much as my walking speed has slowed today, THEY STILL WON'T STOP STOPPING
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 05:12 Mocky: right so what's the problem
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818596 << meanwhile i figured out what you meant. here's the problem : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811449 / http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/04/collected-gripes/ ($2 -- speaking of which hey bb, selectotron when?) or more in the general http://trilema.com/2009/omul-inutil-sau-pledoarie-pentru-protectie-sociala/
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: id'd be the local , orc gestapo you'd be pissing on, tho << A lot of terraforming and corrupting can happen in 20 years
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: id'd be the local , orc gestapo you'd be pissing on, tho
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 18:46 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817710 << yes, i seem to make these kind of homonym errors a lot actually, and i reread the sentence every time, but don't see it until the issue is pointed out.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817818 << they're not homonyms, fwiw, unless you'd read stalin the same way as stolin. but otherwise, pouch is like stalin and poach is like stolin.
BingoBoingo: 't it be nice dream to loudly piss over the USG.FCC from down south
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: back to your hypothetical : humour me, say, to whom wouldja broadcast voice? and for what ?
BingoBoingo: My case for the high power station at some point in the future is that Aconcagua is 6962 meters tall and there are plenty of other high peaks in the Andes. There's the seperate gossipd goal of building a robust relay network, and then there's the "wouldn
asciilifeform: ideally whole thing would be a FG-sized board that can be potted in epoxy, with pv cells on either side, and hung from a tree in the middle of forest. maybe next decade.
asciilifeform: to properly round out the thread, keep in mind that gossip station would need ~receiver~ as well as transmitter (and obviously a comp)
asciilifeform: the pigtail stubs used on your familiar uhf hardware (e.g. wifi) won't work for sw.
asciilifeform: keep in mind ftr also that these need substantial antenna ( can be simple wire, but needs to be at least 10 metres in length, and taught )
BingoBoingo: Sure. gossipd isn't the only use case. Can't expect the moo cows to report to the reddit bags because they have been issued messages over a gossipd they aren't equipped to use. It's a use case that demands voice and/or video.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's historic interest in the subj is strictly in re gossipd.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you're interested in ~voice~ , as if the year were 1952, look elsewhere, the subj is beaten to death in the literature.
asciilifeform: 1) https://archive.li/nLxLX << this is a chinese 100W sw piratetron. it eats ~150W of mains current, and is the size of a brick, and needs forced air etc. costs about 100 $ , just by itself ( i.e. without whatever gossiptron logic and signal synth you'd have. )
asciilifeform: i'ma illustrate with picture, the difference in equipment. :
BingoBoingo: Well, depends on how the terraforming goes. In the struggle between righteous corrupting forces vs. Moo Cow idiocy it is possible that someone has a commercial 250kw-1mw transmitter delivering the good tidings of TMSR from somewhere in LATAM or Africa.
asciilifeform: i'ma make a long thread , shorter, and summarize, it makes considerably moar sense to have smaller, cheaper, unattended 1-10W checks-rsa-and-relays boxen, then massive 'pirate' mast.
asciilifeform: to get answer that makes sense in light of prev thread, set 'tx mode' to ft8 ( a commonplace tone modem ), pick two geographies, and notice that even 1W on a quiet illicit band, already gets you 1000km under the right circumstance.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i am considering here the tmsr use cases, rather than the old farts chatting about grandchildren use case (the latter already is quite well-documented, folx who are interested in it can simply rtfm)
BingoBoingo: But it is 10x as much megawatt strategy accomplishing contra the 100 watt station
BingoBoingo: Well, why does anyone do amateur radio? Same reason they post on reddit. They want a hot young wife, and a dog and grandchildren who love them, but they settle for DX'ing and postcards.
asciilifeform: if it's gossipd transport layer, massively loud sw station is the Wrong Thing ( unless you're mircea_popescu , and have the cannon battery around the mast, and can be arsed )
asciilifeform: you gotta start with asking, what you want out of the thing.
asciilifeform: i suppose i oughta detail in the logs, in concrete example, for fyootoor ref.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'legal' shortwave is ~useless , iirc we had the thread.
BingoBoingo: Well, as of last year Uruguay has amateur license classes that allow pumping up to 1500 screaming watts on certain parts of the spectrum
asciilifeform: ^ without some rough idea of what you're looking for, these won't do much good
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.websdr.org << can try the argentinas, if you feel like, to get a feel.
BingoBoingo: * were they
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Were talking about privatizing the water?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: funnily enuff i was listening to web-sdr boxen in UY not long ago. there's several public ones.
asciilifeform: at any rate it doesn't hurt to put asciilifeform's lulzcollection re subj in the log.
phf: asciilifeform: i'm establishing scope, rather then actually doing anything. firefox on my x60 has an uper limit on tabs i have open, because it runs out of memory, so i started thinking that this ain't no way to live :>
asciilifeform: phf: werentcha in the middle of a vtron or do i misremember tho
asciilifeform: phf: if it helps in your archaeology, google's 'seekrit' name for the machine is 'veyron'
BingoBoingo: In other archeo-coprology The Uruguayo Amateur Radio Association on the web today: https://archive.is/5lTz1 versus February 2013: https://archive.is/klTvj
trinque: yeah possibly, just throwing it out there
trinque: idea being "rockchip blobless scope:15" would bring you to anywhere those terms are within 15 lines of each other
trinque: phf: an idea for logs, it might be easier to find threads if the scope of a search could be more than one line, perhaps as a parameter like "from:".
asciilifeform: phf: i also considered looking for the key check thing in the stock bios and simply NOPing it out
phf: so an intermediate step that someone else could perform is to take your rockchip gentoo, generate new rsa pair, sign the kernel with pub, patch google's uboot with priv and get a clean booting rockchip gentoo setup, without accidentally bricking the device? (while still retaining known amount of google in the system)
asciilifeform: also interestingly, they published the src for their uboot, it is theoretically possible to scrub the crapola out and rebuild. however i have not succeeded in building it.
asciilifeform: and interestingly they published the src for the auxiliary microcontroller (drives kbd, battery, leds, etc) unlike any other lappy maker, and it actually builds
asciilifeform: i'd like to properly degooglize the box.
asciilifeform: i'd like a normal, built-from-src rockchip uboot for this thing. and i worked over the pcb with magnifying glass and found a buncha debug contacts, some of which almost certainly gotta be spi rom. but -- currently no time to chase this.
phf: ah i see, yeah i figured it's a drop in replacement, but the uboot bit complicates the matter. uboot i take it is a boot loader, or the kernel also goes in there?
asciilifeform: i booted a heathen linux on the thing from the sd card, via the heathen ('press ctrl-d in 10 sec on boot or i format yer disk') nonsense, it ran.
asciilifeform: phf: my current understanding is that it will be able to boot the ~userland~ from my rockchip gentoo ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295 ) as-is; will need a proper kernel tho
asciilifeform: and yes i also will be replacing my x60 with it, if/when i get the time to finish this to a decent state
asciilifeform: phf: i did find the (quite gnarly) method to replace the built-in rsa keys with mine, and how to sign arbitrary kernels. what i did not do , is to build a proper non-googlistic uboot for it, and flash it in in place of old ( 'sapper errs once' , there doesn't seem to be any spi rom contacts brought out on the mainboard for a 2nd try if fails )
phf: asciilifeform: hey, have you had further progress with the chromebook? i'm thinking of replacing my x60 with it, or rather i want to try a portable cuntoo install, without nuking existing setup
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:43 ave1: BTW the aarch64 will build static but not by default, so that part I will check.
phf: yeah, privmsgs are silent, so you're always making assumptions about your name. i think i have to handle NICK messages from server to know when the bot is force renamed..
phf: back in the canonical log days, i'd patch the name in the logs, but since we're past that i think it can be left as is, unless there are objections as far as log authenticity.
spyked: Mocky: methinks users should be able to talk to the bot via PM, e.g. to subscribe to feeds. the bot will permit "private" subscriptions too, iirc mircea_popescu uses this.
spyked: the rationale is that there are a few O(n) operations involved (e.g. walking through the list of rss feeds) and I don't want every rando landing on Freenode to be able to abuse this (in particular for advertising sent via pm). let 'em get their own rss bot if they wanna.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 08:59 spyked: re b. I have a rfc in the works, should be ready for publishing at the beginning of next week. this is also why I haven't disclosed the bot's name and the channel where it operates at the moment, I want to limit access to relevant bot commands to L1 and L2 only.
spyked: as far as I can see, this first writing pass exposes incorrect assumptions about e.g. data structures and how they're used. if this keeps happening, then it might be that the problem is larger than the mind can chew on in one take.
ave1: BTW how would you do this "I want to limit access to relevant bot commands to L1 and L2 only" ? Check if the nick has voice or download the WOT or can deedbot be queried?
ave1: Also, yes, once you write it you may see how it should have been written. But I wonder if this is the first step in an infinite cycle.
ave1: I sometimes have it all tought out and then it completely fails on writing the first couple of lines.
spyked: so eventually I expect some of the rss bot components (e.g. command handling, self-voicing) to evolve into standalone scaffolding for #trilema bots that implements a decent subset of http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/
ave1: "in the head" and implemtation
spyked: but I knew how the rss bot design should look (I wrote up a draft before starting the implementation), the problem was rather fitting it up with all the "imported" elements.
spyked: ave1, the approach in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-30#1761284 seems to work here, in many cases I learned how the proper version of some piece of code needs to look after writing it.
ave1: Or just live with it until the stress becomes big enough that you'll have to do something.
ave1: spyked, I've seen this happening many times (the code is done, but ugly, so I cannot publish yet). I geuss there is a general process behind this. At time (a) you need some code, at time (b) you have it but the code is "ugly". At time (c) the code still works and you have little incentive to clean it up. I know only two ways to get less "ugly" code, in the time between (a) and (b) write non "ugly" code. Or at time (c) publish the code and get shamed into s
spyked: now, the reason why this has been taking me so long is that I hoped I would publish the pieces as I went along. but this is harder than it looked, had to write what is now unreadable (other than by myself) prototype, then (point c. on my list) I'll have to rewrite/refactor and then publish. all this despite the fact that this is "known item", not FFA.
spyked: re b. I have a rfc in the works, should be ready for publishing at the beginning of next week. this is also why I haven't disclosed the bot's name and the channel where it operates at the moment, I want to limit access to relevant bot commands to L1 and L2 only.
spyked: re a. it's occured to me a few days ago that the bot must maintain +v/-v state so that it doesn't needlessly attempt to talk in-chan before self-voicing. I intend this part to be separate from the rss bot itself and reusable.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818005 <-- it's a few (2-3?) weeks away from deployability. full report: basic functionality is pretty stable now (cl-feed-parser library was throwing random errors and wasn't fittable-in-head; so I had to replace and rewrite a significant portion of the rss and atom parsing bits). I still need to implement a. self-voicing and b. an access control mechanism.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 14:07 mircea_popescu: http://ave1.org/planding.html << this is altogether not terrible. if it's not much of a landing page, at least it's clean and legible.
mircea_popescu: "Gotta eat, gotta live, gotta build the time machine." damn, this is fucking poetic.
trinque will wash gehry and shi out with latrine pig, then to bed
asciilifeform: ( to where, dun recall, either mit or nearby )
asciilifeform: lucky for trinque that they had this kunstkammer monstrosity, to make him barf in time. or think, trinque , you could be there even nao, fucking elaine shi or what was the eth chix...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, kinda the baseball club model neh.
trinque: https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2017/04/ray-maria-stata-center-frank-gehry-massachusetts-institute-of-technology-10-ten-iconic-buildings-mit-campus_dezeen_sq.jpg << for the innocent
trinque: literally the stupid buildings.
asciilifeform: ( for the innocent -- like many american unis, um had 1 'proper' campus, and buncha ??? satellites )
Mocky: 90's not at college park, this was the cut-rate SUNY Oswego
mircea_popescu: that's right, shame the noob!
mircea_popescu: "There's a certain grace in overdoing things."
asciilifeform: but already waning then.
mircea_popescu: especially as it's been the case for > 10 years by now
mircea_popescu: trinque, there's something exquisitely wrong with "we all agree what we did was stupid". well... why'd you do it then ?!!?!?!?!?!?
mircea_popescu: what's the problem, you folk don't have the information superhighway where you live, can't communicate with each other, the trucks of internets don't make it, what is it.
mircea_popescu: oyu know, i've yet to meet the zek who has somewthing ~other~ to say about his secondary education time than "i was an idiot"
asciilifeform: Mocky: for sake of argument, what then would've been 'smart' ?
Mocky: i was an idiot, got endebted elsewhere, took all the cs classes, and then quit to get a job programming
mircea_popescu: also, if it wasn't obvious, http://trilema.com/2016/the-darkening/ <-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QyYaPWasos
mircea_popescu: so i jsut re-read the set ; indeed it is grand. i love reading myself.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 05:17 mircea_popescu: is it http://trilema.com/2016/the-human-latrine-pig/ ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818606 << phunphakt, the hieroglyph, at one time came to mean simply 'household' ( 'pig' in 'house' box )
mircea_popescu: i sadly dribbled it out in pieces, which i now regret. anyway, http://trilema.com/the-next-generation http://trilema.com/2016/the-darkening/ http://trilema.com/2016/the-dog/ http://trilema.com/2016/the-chosen/
trinque: nah, the google heaven where everyone's in goo cylinders redditing, semiverbal dudes wandering and raping
mircea_popescu: narcissist fantasy, "What if the whole world was powerless observers". brasil ftw.
trinque: Mocky: did you read the goo tube piece?
trinque: I guess their fetish is more or less jars of eyes.
mircea_popescu: there was a problem ?
Mocky: right so what's the problem
mircea_popescu: why even bother with half-ass solutions.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 03:58 mircea_popescu: Mocky, you realise, everyone's model revolves around wrapping zeks. it's just that the democrats are (mostly, unexamiedly) partialists while we're absolutists.
trinque: seems like whatever "ruling class" the empire has missed a developmental step too
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 19:50 mircea_popescu: much like byzantines imagined mongols come over to steal the "true cross" because it's so fucking valuable in their eyes. because how couldn't it be. and so on.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818431 << because they're so valuable; how could they not be
mircea_popescu: 1000 dollars today, ie one 1985 dollar ; and 1:1mn leverage today, meaning you can do the work of 1k 1985 people.
mircea_popescu: previous discussion re leverage with alf aside ; it's a wonder if they can make one man out of 1k of the neets tied together. i have my doubts. so it's not just "need leverage" on this side -- the empire graciously provides anti-leverage out of its own meat.
Mocky: this next generation is going to be epic, with the way schools are now, and raised by ipads and netflix
mircea_popescu: (this is the mechanism that resolves infantile cowardice, ftr : sooner or later the kid goes, "fuck it, none shall pass".)
mircea_popescu: have nothing it'd die for, really ? why even bother growing up.