lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: ok thanks for the work & update asciilifeform
asciilifeform: mod6: shooting currently to have the stick ready for BingoBoingo to move and power up tomorrow morning
asciilifeform: mod6: apologies for the slow, remembered that i must rebuild kernel so user gets iptables out of the box
mod6: How are we doing with the re-imaging of that Rockchip?
trinque: but barring some weird ping/pong bug, something's gotta be responding from the freenode side during those periods
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: diana_coman: Sent 6 hours and 34 minutes ago: <lobbes> if you still need the footnotes php for mp-wp, I have a copy up here >> http://lobbesblog.com/static/footnotes.php.tar.gz
diana_coman: lobbes, thanks, meanwhile I just transferred the code directly from my old wp;
lobbesbot: lobbes: The operation succeeded.
lobbes: !Qlater tell diana_coman if you still need the footnotes php for mp-wp, I have a copy up here >> http://lobbesblog.com/static/footnotes.php.tar.gz
asciilifeform: already if you want nitric acid in usa, you gotta either find where to steal , or make own, a la 1700s.
asciilifeform: the ~only thing the '3d printer' aficionados are succeeding in, is to help make this scenario.
asciilifeform: it's practical in places where properly-made shells are easily found. thread was re the 'usg bans' world where, hypothetically, not.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-18 21:34 asciilifeform: periodically, uppity folx who need to bake something that shoots, in a hurry (e.g. filipino rebels ) rediscover the korean trick.
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/#selection-995.0-1015.1 << see also mircea_popescu's picture of the pathology.
asciilifeform: it's exactly same thing as where the haskelltards carefully, studiously avoid making a lisp.
asciilifeform: this is 90% of the appeal, i suspect, of '3d printer' to begin with. the problems of making shapes with motorized glue gun are quite elaborate, and the aficionados never miss a chance to show off 'clever algos' etc. they normally eschew metal-cutting, despite the promise of actually making something functional -- because they would have to bow to grey-bearded machinists who've been doing cnc since 1950s, and can wipe the floor with t
asciilifeform: phf: my alt-hypothesis is that it's something slightly different -- it's a haskellism. ameri-sad folx are irresistibly drawn to ~elaborately ineffective~ tech , that absorbs infinite 'ricering' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-09#552410 ) while giving chance to 'show how clever'
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 22:17 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1840047 << i believe item in question started as "lulz what else can we print wit dis thing" kind of like at a house party at 4am one tries to figure out what else can be used as a vodka mixer, but the government ban turned it into "i do what i want mom!1"
asciilifeform: phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1840085 << i've looked at their cad crapola, quite a bit of ( entirely dead-end, but besides the point )effort for '5min drunken theory' scenario
phf: in related i was recently rereading old issues of phrack, and the first couple of editions are more "anarchist cookbook" than the late 90s thing, e.g. in issue 2 has instructions for building a classic single shot "gun" out of wood and pipe. also much more practical piece of "open sores arms"
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 21:25 asciilifeform: was given by asciilifeform as example of 'what the 'open sores arms' people might do if they weren't dropped on their heads as children'
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1840047 << i believe item in question started as "lulz what else can we print wit dis thing" kind of like at a house party at 4am one tries to figure out what else can be used as a vodka mixer, but the government ban turned it into "i do what i want mom!1"
BingoBoingo having a truly depressing experience searching out tomato seeds for the balcony
BingoBoingo: But on it's own that is blinding. Gotta amp up the power for more damage
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ir laser has its place -- silently mutilate the expensive optics of usg gear, from coupla km away
asciilifeform: ( 'surgically' touch off the cig lighter in enemy general's left pocket while leaving the one in his right, alone ..?? )
BingoBoingo: Well, what asset do the chicoms have if it isn't that their meat comes wrapped in smaller more numerous packages
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839988 << the gigantic muzzle optic suggests that they picked archimedes's solution to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839983
asciilifeform: tree of reason may as well be tree of eden, to them.
mircea_popescu: ass of new girl has three layers of marks acquired in not even two days, and out of the balance of dozen+ she's earned. because, genuinely, this problem. and this is a smart & brave girl.
asciilifeform: 'clue' is slightly easier, tho still tricky, recall http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto/#selection-149.0-157.415
mircea_popescu: (yes, there's no real difference between authority and authorship, in the sense used in scholarship. because how.)
mircea_popescu: ww2 partizans had a credible structure of auctoritas, linking them to the very tree of reason.
mircea_popescu: strange that all the kids that "want to show futility of parents control" go to mall to buy emo geddup rather than burn down house.
asciilifeform: if they wanted to demo 'futility of usg control', could start by showing that car battery + distilled h2o + coupla hrs will level a brick house just as well as dynamite, etc.
asciilifeform: i can just as easily think of 8999 other example.
asciilifeform: was given by asciilifeform as example of 'what the 'open sores arms' people might do if they weren't dropped on their heads as children'
mircea_popescu: the one item chem reaction speed / reaction front wave is most sensitive to, is dopings.
asciilifeform: but beyond this, aficionados gotta do their own homewowk.
asciilifeform: anyway quick look in the lit suggests v of 500 to 1000 m/s for h2/o2, depending on pressure and whether there's atmospheric n2 in the mix.
mircea_popescu: possibly the case ; in which case that'd be why no one tried.
asciilifeform: ( at least the bomb people were only concerned with 'how many nanoseconds until it frags', rather than 'reusable cannon', much easier problem )
asciilifeform: afaik there isn't actually a metal you can make 'tetryl cannon' from, the shockwave exceeds bond strength of anyffing in the earthling mendeleev table
mircea_popescu: it's not soft at the speed cntemplated. more importantly, i suspect it's not friable
asciilifeform: ( and , for sake of argument, why au rather than pb )
mircea_popescu: anyway. prolly solid gold chamber better than solid steel. in any case this repeat-h/o explosion item is not either cheap or light
asciilifeform: i have nfi whether h2/o2 would make for a rifle that anyone dares to fire; but conceivably a-ok for 'infernal machine'.
mircea_popescu: a major advantage of gunpowder is that it is strong ~but VERY SLOW~. in chemical reaction speed terms, the black powder item is an outlier of slowness.
asciilifeform: 'too fast' also possible. recall usg's 'project eldest son', where they salted vietnam jungle with ak rounds filled with tetryl
mircea_popescu: may be just enough to fracture your chamber rather than propel your round. i never did teh maffs
mircea_popescu: this may be the very problem : very fast but weak wave.
asciilifeform: that's the main constraint re 'could or not'
asciilifeform: what's the detonation v of h2/o2 anyway
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's constraints. but anyway, it's not clear to me it wouldn't, so.
mircea_popescu: but it's unclear to me it'd produce the sort of bang one expects out of a hunting rifle say.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the potato people demonstrated, iirc, in early 2000s, just gotta be scaled down and made of steel.
asciilifeform: ( no carrying around unreacted h2/o2 mix, lol, that's worse than the korean leather cannon, far more lethal to owner than enemy )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hypothetically, known volume of distilled water goes in the dosator tube, and current flows until it stops, then spark.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:21 mircea_popescu: "oh it dun do anything, it's just oxigen" "sure. until the day it does something, then you'll really see a show"
mircea_popescu: i dunno how capable of maintaining 02 safely partizans even are, considering a) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824489 and b) even molotov cocktails went out of business, as "too dangerous" (to the derps).
Mocky: laser useful in the field for range finding
asciilifeform: and laser is not particularly useful in the field aside from eye-gougin'.
asciilifeform: ( tho the 'potato cannon' hobbyists still try )
a111: 4 results for "thermodynamics proposes kinetics disposes", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thermodynamics%20proposes%20kinetics%20disposes
asciilifeform: !#s thermodynamics proposes kinetics disposes
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, ru air corps still teaches ramming as a legit move << Mass has always been the equalizer
mircea_popescu: there's a reason ships don't try to swing at each other underwater like men do, or did, on ground ; just like there's a reason air-to-air missiles aren't propeller-propelled (while torpedoes aren't jet engined)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sometimes it's fun to consider what "revolutionary" items like this would make of the past. like say, submarine wars carried out with lengthy "swords", underwarer.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd be a costly and riotously bulky thing, even if the atmosphere didn't get in the way (and it does)
a111: Logged on 2016-10-17 05:30 ben_vulpes: i am more interested in the "never get close enough"
mircea_popescu: "laser rifle" never happening, thump oir no thump. photons are photons, they do what they di ; and let's include the "ion cannon" / http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-17#1556218 discussion
asciilifeform: if ^ types had the brains the gods gave a slug, they'd at least consider trying something new & truly usg-circumventing, e.g. hand cannon that takes pb bullets and h2/o2 ( distilled water + current ) for propellant, finally and for all time curing the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044317 nonsense
mircea_popescu: recall how the whole sintered magic was going to "change the world as you know it" ?
BingoBoingo: Of course his win was swiftly followed by an injuction because "Think of the hands!"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-17 17:57 asciilifeform: in other 'news', this schmuck is still in business, apparently : http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-cody-wilson-ghost-gunner-ar-15
asciilifeform: in re small arms, anybody recall the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-17#1504265 derp ?
BingoBoingo: Right, shephard/sheep situation. One guy gets a rifle and the report panics the rest of the piggies
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if the various leaked clips are anythign to go by, once 1 works up the courage, they all let loose
BingoBoingo: US doctrine is a dozen people pointing firearms and one pulling the trigger at a person
asciilifeform: i thought usg police favoured machinepistols, with slow, blunt , unjacketed bullets, like the last reich
BingoBoingo: The newer (~1950s) 7.62 nato is quite a bit shorter. .30-06 is classic full size/full power. 7.62/.308 Nato is compact size/full power, being the bullet US police shoot people with in standoffs
asciilifeform: hm, possibly the 'compatibility' is 1way. i dun recall exactly.
asciilifeform: the brit -- i've nfi
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839921 << BingoBoingo i'm not aware of any other historically significant '.30's ( unless you count mauser/TT short .30 )
mircea_popescu: same flatfile that had the toilet "operating system" lampoon and so on
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 20:17 mircea_popescu: re that "bloopers" item, "The inhabitants of Egypt were called mummies." << it seems rather suspicious to me that this exact item tends ot lead ro internet collections also. da fuck
mircea_popescu: these bloopers were retroblooped ?
BingoBoingo: Those things support the cultured pearl theory. A hive mind that reliably bloopered this way wouldn't be as bad a the true Reddit
mircea_popescu: "Martin Luther Cling was nailed to the church door at Wittenberg for selling papal indulgences. He died a horrible death, being excommunicated by a bull." yeah not altogether terrible.
BingoBoingo: This doesn't seem like a blooper: "He also signed the Emasculation Proclamation, and the Fourteenth Amendment gave the ex-Negroes citizenship. "
mircea_popescu: "Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice they didn't ask for, a service for which he was eventually killed. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock." << not even bad (slightly corrected)
diana_coman: yeah, that there is a fun read but as asciilifeform said most probably a cultured pearl essentially
mircea_popescu: re that "bloopers" item, "The inhabitants of Egypt were called mummies." << it seems rather suspicious to me that this exact item tends ot lead ro internet collections also. da fuck
mircea_popescu: anyway esthlos i know it's hard but srsly, don't give it up, it's entertaining and perhaps marginally even useful. "Hence I'm changing my base organizational approach and will be prioritizing the log reading above Keccak and other projects, to move towards the desired number." pfff!!
diana_coman: I almost hoped to read "diana has trouble fucking the goats with eucrypt on musl cuntoo"
mircea_popescu: in other shockers, apparently http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-17#1826273 didn't make it for notability cut on the 17th of june.
BingoBoingo: TBF he did get to the slave name discussion
mircea_popescu goes to check out how teh log summaries are coming along, sees http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2018-08 has one entry on the 1st... yo esthlos ? how goes it ?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 04:45 hanbot: esthlos it doesn't. footnotes source & instructions are in http://thewhet.net/2017/10/a-compendium-of-possibly-helpful-stuffs-for-erecting-mircea-popescus-wordpress-with-nearly-free-speech-hosting/ , and i've never actually taken on the selection jazz. i can tuck em both into next patch tho.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839871 -> ha, found it in the logs! for ref it's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833366
BingoBoingo: Ah, the full .30 caliber spread
mircea_popescu: "republic not using nato-based warheads means we can't turn them off! SECURITY THREAT!111"
mircea_popescu eagerly awaits the time "most advanced army in world" comes back "not defeated" from whatever shithole, but instead complaining that "the barbarians don't understand how the world works", "aren't used correctly '''advanced''' weaponry" etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: observe, even the humble bolt-action mosin, 1890s tech, usg dun like, happily goes through whatever kevlar vests, 2-3 at a time
mircea_popescu: so lucky, the ustards, that they have a patriarch there at the ready to set the sun every time the sun sets and raise it again every time it raises again.
mircea_popescu: right, because when the us can't sell its useless shit in russia it's "russia embargo", and when us can't afford to buy russian shit it's "obama banned".
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the 'easter block loot' has all a) ran out b) banned by obummer for import
BingoBoingo: Back in the days when it was full of looted eastern block cool
BingoBoingo has fond memories of getting cashiers checks from the grocery store to order camping supplies from the "Cheaper than dirt" print catalog back when it sold cool shit
mircea_popescu: it ain't 2000 anymore, when /b/ decided time's man of the year to be m00t.
mircea_popescu: and they gotta be "secret", specificalkly because it's rarely half a dozen attendance.
asciilifeform: even the hyped 'rights lobbying' was 100% chemically pure scamola ( nra conceded 'compromise' erry single time whatever ban was going through in washington )
mircea_popescu: as in the http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-127.158-131.25 ; you understand this, the merit washing is done in "secret" meetings so small and inconsequential the irc spammer kids could force them.
mircea_popescu: by now they've faked the faking to the point there's truly and overwhelmingly absolutely nothing there.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the true problem here is that restaurant is attempting to compete with online simulation of restaurant.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm speaking from the 'oh noez my restaurant is going broke' 'have you tried not taking steaming shits in EVERY plate?' pov.
asciilifeform: i suspect nra would have moar subscribers if they refrained from http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561733
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you understand this, right, ALL of the "mainstream" in pantsuit narrative is 100% fabricated astroturf. nobody ~actually buys~, actually subscrtibes, actually anything. vice has a readership of maybe 10 people in a good day.
diana_coman: or esthlos lobbes? how did you get the footnotes working on mp-wp?
mircea_popescu: nra is working the wrong end of the funnel, it's a whole lot easier to get visa to pretend like you got 10mn donated than to get 1mn derps to send you a tenner each
diana_coman: it's not in plugins.php atm, that much is clear; maybe hanbot can help as she seems to have the footnotes working on her blog
mircea_popescu: yes, but your question was in the format "how can car manufacturer compete with print shop printig pictures of cars". well... the OTHER people DO NOT actually get anyone to donate anything.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and in this same vein, nra can't, but "black women code" can. << Well, the big NRA take is from ranges mandating an NRA membership to join and manufacterers throwing in X length of NRA memberhsip with purchase
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you call them with space double parens " (("
a111: Logged on 2017-03-08 22:29 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : femen, the "ukrainian" organisation is selling shit priced in dollars via 2checkout.com, the columbus ohio us corp.
mircea_popescu: consider, at the same time you're asked to believe "most of credit card payments are fraudulent" AND "someone ever donated to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623380
asciilifeform: the mental gymnastics of usaschwitz inmates in pretending that they were not already effectively disarmed , are vaguely entertaining
mircea_popescu: well, the old nixon hope, "ima claim i have"
BingoBoingo: Anyways, if the NRA can't herd millions of poor derps through the visa gates to fund their flannel pantsuitism, what hope do the actual pantsuits have herding their poorer herps
mircea_popescu: who wants the visa monopoly ? and for what exactly ?
mircea_popescu: should be fun to destructure the pantsuit style "platforms" anyway.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/us-nra-on-the-ropes-amid-state-financial-deplatforming-attack/ << Qntra - US NRA On The Ropes Amid State Financial Deplatforming Attack
diana_coman: I am moving my blog over to pizarro so I do need to change the ip; new ip is 161.0.121.198
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:04 asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too. It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
asciilifeform: it's come to where i suspect that even bothering to look at the old coad, is a ~guaranteed waste of time, oughta go straight to knuth and blank page.
mircea_popescu: hey, at least there's social media and chick's rights, right ?
asciilifeform: but we dun live there.
asciilifeform: not that i wouldn't like to live on the planet where there's a 'library of alexandria' of high-quality, well-documented coad, for the taking.
asciilifeform: ave1: recall in 2016, when i went to look for ada arithmetic lib, and found several, all of them immediately threw away, liquishit with variably-wide, heap-allocated bigints, and half MB or even heavier src
a111: Logged on 2018-08-06 17:44 ave1: asciilifeform, I remember the PAL page, went looking for the sources, treasure trove of dead links. Maybe something on the iso images at the evil archive: https://archive.org/details/ADA_-_The_Public_Ada_Library_Walnut_Creek_November_1997
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839829 << a yr or 2 asciilifeform would've balked at this pov, and iirc did when mircea_popescu first wrote it, but today i strongly suspect that the value of 'vintage coad archive' is most likely ~0. quite likely that little to none of it is written to my current standard of hygiene. ( and the effort to answer this q, is closely similar to the effort to simply write new programs... )
mircea_popescu: man much better at estimating the diff between 1st and 2nd mile than between 1000th and 1001th
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes in purely notional terms, the diff between a 10k btc tangibles line 0.01% valuable and a 10btc tangibles line 10% valuable is nil. but people have some optimal values so to speak.
mircea_popescu: a lot of what mod6 is stuck doing currently strikes me as exactly that, as the least constructive take (more constructively, it's training him in accounting and valuation fundamentals, which is not a waste at all).
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes purely for meeting people's expectations ; depreciation is the principal faucet out of the tangibles bucket, so you don't end up with massive tangibles that are greatly overstated in accounting terms.
ave1: asciilifeform, I remember the PAL page, went looking for the sources, treasure trove of dead links. Maybe something on the iso images at the evil archive: https://archive.org/details/ADA_-_The_Public_Ada_Library_Walnut_Creek_November_1997
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reading the depreciations thread, i remembered that it is physically possible to compute an 'exact' depreciation value for ssd drives, as they have 'odometer'. do you think this is worth doing systematically ?
ben_vulpes: i'm not entirely clear as to the benefits of depreciation under the tmsr accounting regime; most of my experience has to do with optimizing tax treatment in fiatlandia which is irrelephant here
asciilifeform: http://www.pegasoft.ca/pal.html >> 'The PAL is a library of Ada and VHDL software, information, and courseware that contains over 1 BILLION bytes of material (mainly in compressed form). All items in the PAL have been released to the public with unlimited distribution, and, in most cases (the exceptions are shareware), the items are freeware.' << BUT all 3 mirrors dead as dodo.
Mocky: ^ circa '96 "The goal of this binding is to make scripting language features, such as associative arrays, regular expression matching, and execution of OS commands available to an Ada programmer and to allow a Tcl programmer to use Ada in place of C where needed"
phf: asciilifeform: well there apparently used to be a unix shell in 1980s that was written in ada, i suspect it's not the gsh above, but something else entirely
phf: asciilifeform: i saw somewhere suggested that there used to be a unix shell written in ada with some kind of ada like semantics, you know anything about that?
phf: asciilifeform: oh no i'm not about to start debugging the paste/webserver/download loop again
asciilifeform: ( and yes the hashes match... )
asciilifeform: ... or is this the ancient evil with wget..?
asciilifeform: then i must've broken it on my end, will have to go over it with magnifying glass and find where.
asciilifeform: phf: how about the seals ?
asciilifeform: ( now , 1 possibly odd thing that i did, was to get the patches and sigs from phf's btcbase, rather than from ave1's www . perhaps these are broken somehow ? i'd like to diff'em )
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 16 hours and 3 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://ave1.org/code/zfp/v/patches/zfp_2_noc.vpatch is an invalid vpatch, it breaks fundamental rule of vtronics , by referencing files not given in the genesis !
ave1: asciilifeform, I just tried to press zfp_2_noc.vpatch with your python (v99, http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000160.html) and it pressed and built fine (with fresh download of the patches from my site, just to be sure).
mircea_popescu: the job of the humans involved at any juncture is to make the job of the other humans that might become involved ~possible~, which is what http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/#selection-549.0-553.0 is all about. and so on.
mircea_popescu: of fucking course it's the substance and the liant holding the human world together.
mircea_popescu: but anyway ; much as in the case of "no mechanical trust", there's no such thing as an "automated" valuation. the value of things requires thought, at all interfaces, which is to say wheresoever the thing potentially changes hands, even if just mentally. these are just minute re-applications of ye olde "no possibility of meaning outside of structure of authority". of fucking course all authority is predicated on thought, and
mircea_popescu: just because it's short doesn't mean it's not great ; the item in question happens to be, specifically because in its shortness it manages to not contradict any of the principles needed by functional accounting while including nothing not needed.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 21:23 ben_vulpes: so accounting's job is to provide a reasonable, non-malicious estimate of that value, and let investors perform their own valuation based on whether they think that a high or low value for the tangible in question.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839665 << me is pleased to see ben_vulpes has apparently done some meditation on the matter, understands the principles informing the thing.
mircea_popescu: the world would be a much better place should people actually do a whole lot more of it.
mircea_popescu: jurov that'd be what criticizing IS, lol. not that there's anything wrong with criticizing.
BingoBoingo: In other propaganda campaigns, OG Pantsuit Patrick Stewart has been signed to do a revival of his clasic series: Bipeds Sitting In Chairs And Stairing At Screens While Wearing Pajamas
phf: also shiva situation is different. shiva pressed files, that are not otherwise referenced in subsequent patches, but which are required for the operation of final product. an out of band genesis
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 hour and 30 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc << is not a valid vpatch !!!!!! and yer viewer should have rang the alarms. it references files not in the genesis !
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 22:57 asciilifeform: !!later tell phf http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc << is not a valid vpatch !!!!!! and yer viewer should have rang the alarms. it references files not in the genesis !
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839743 << probably a multiroot situation. otherwise btcbase does sound alarm (e.g. the "deprecated" patchset has some examples). ftr btcbase is a visualizer of extant patches, it is to some extent more permissive by design than production vtron
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 http://ave1.org/code/zfp/v/patches/zfp_2_noc.vpatch is an invalid vpatch, it breaks fundamental rule of vtronics , by referencing files not given in the genesis !
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc << is not a valid vpatch !!!!!! and yer viewer should have rang the alarms. it references files not in the genesis !
asciilifeform: !!later tell phf http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc << is not a valid vpatch !!!!!! and yer viewer should have rang the alarms. it references files not in the genesis !
jurov: So far I'm not doing depreciation at all. Only have to take care when an item is broken/sold, that the correct amount is subtracted from tangibles.
mod6: but let's leave this for another day.
mod6: I've gotta run for a bit here, maybe later when you're availble we can go through calculating that customer equity. i did some adding, but I came up about 50% short. clearly missing something there.
mod6: ok, so I've gone through this table, aside from the customer equity line, and it looks good.
mod6: the wildcat bonus is listed as '0.30487805'. Am I doing something wrong, or missing something above ^
ben_vulpes: i'm here, we're close to the bottom. may as well finish it out.
mod6: thanks for stopping in to help fill in the gaps, I appreciate that.
ben_vulpes: mod6: what else troubles ye, i have other sisyphean boulders slipping back downhill as we speak
ben_vulpes: show me the perl that doesn't mangle double floats...
mod6: the good ones don't!
ben_vulpes: the slut is truncating
ben_vulpes: a bitcent says that's the difference between purchased usd and expenses denominated in usd, redenominated in btc.
mod6: yeah, i noticed this before that it's not quite the same number as listed in netchange
ben_vulpes: some .04 btc discrepancy from the report
ben_vulpes: right, so factor out the invariant and let's calculate the net change since that's where we'll find discrepancies.
mod6: Which is: The number from the beginning of the month <first number> + DC payment <second number> + living expenses <third number> + sum of depreciation from the tangibles table
ben_vulpes: i mean to say that the .3 btc was spent on usd, some fraction of which was not in turn spent on expenses.
ben_vulpes: first off, the .3 btc was spent on cash
ben_vulpes: how about we just look at the net change, first
ben_vulpes: ayup, this is how the bottom-of-the-report tables work: summing the previous months values against the current months values to derive a current number.
mod6: Yeah, didn't realize that I had to add in the number from the beginning of the month (end of last month), in this case "4.77078675"
ben_vulpes: (the 10.4 under discussion)
ben_vulpes: calculated per "sum the value of all non-capitalized purchases (DC, fiat spent denominated in BTC, and the sum of depreciation charges), and mark that as net change for intangibles and goodwill"
mod6: ok, so where do we get the month-end number for intangibles, g/w "5.59699926" ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 04:47 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how does the server rental fee make sense as "intangibles and goodwill"?
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> i do not think that this coupling is necessary, however. a photo of the exchange rate from BingoBoingo at the same cambio on the 27th every month may be adequate. << This I can do
mod6: gonna read through the steps again
ben_vulpes: so accounting's job is to provide a reasonable, non-malicious estimate of that value, and let investors perform their own valuation based on whether they think that a high or low value for the tangible in question.
ben_vulpes: yeah, keep in mind that the tangibles line is, again per "Accounting for the nonzero asset corporation" "any and all assets that could reasonably be expected to be exchangeable for BTC, even if at a loss"
mod6: ahh, alright. i get what you mean. so it's a bit simpler to just get the forex number at the time of the statement, rather than having to old up the previous months statement until a BTC/USD price point is established.
ben_vulpes: i do not think that this coupling is necessary, however. a photo of the exchange rate from BingoBoingo at the same cambio on the 27th every month may be adequate.
ben_vulpes: value for the previous month's closing value of the uyu/btc rate (which is also the opening rate for the next month)
ben_vulpes: the past two statements i have pulled that value from xe or forex.com at the time of statement generation. if you want to couple the UYU/USD price timing to that of the USD/BTC price timing, you'd have to hold off on issuing the previous month's statement until you have a btc price signal /for the month after the statement/, and then ask BingoBoingo what the uyu/usd rate is on that day in order to provide a
mod6: ok np at all, just trying to get the process of getting these numbers. take your time. i feel like I'm learning a lot here with all of this, it's super helpful.
ben_vulpes: we're talking tiny amounts of btc, but good process and understanding are important at the outset to forestall tears later, so bear with me
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 20:51 mod6: ben_vulpes: gotcha. any idea what number you used? This should go into my notes so I know to record the UYU/USD exchange rate at the time of the setting of the monthly price point.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839607 there is a fine point here, that this is notionally a "closing-of-the-month" value for the UYU
ben_vulpes: mod6: i did not update that row after using the wrong conversion factor for fiat liabilities on my first pass; thank you for spotting that
mod6: ok so now that i've figured out that cash number from the Assets table, there will still two other questions for you above ^ when you get a chance: the depreciation of UY3, and the sum of the book values.
ben_vulpes: mod6: for what it's worth, i twice audited holdings while generating statements and they both came out correct. i suggest you use the statement generation process (combing through ledger/invoice output) to generate statements first, and audit against your personal accounts as a check.
ben_vulpes: anyways yes, if you want to audit the correctness of the statement against the value of cash held on behalf of pizarro, you will have to deduct your personal transactions from whatever account pizarro transactions flow in order to calculate a correct number.
ben_vulpes: book truth lies in the statements; it is useful to verify that the cash line is correct but i would use it as a check, not the starting point from which to generate statements given a) payment timing b) personal use of accounts
mod6: it would be nice if pizarro had it's own key and could keep it's own ledger, but then who would control or hold said key, and that doesn't work either.
mod6: well, at lesat, until I send them to BingoBoingo, in which case, he might have his own subtraction he'll have to do. that's the messiest part of doing the pizarro thing through personal deedbot accounts.
mod6: it's the amount that mod6 himself had in his deedbot account before I was sent Pizarro's 6.21445021 BTC.
mod6: perfect, that's exactly the number I was looking for.
ben_vulpes: per http://trilema.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/#selection-129.0-129.120
ben_vulpes: usd/uyu are fiat assets. get booked as tangibles. see the tangibles table.