phf: this is for scripting though, the constraints are presumably not as tight. also gc is a kind of outer bound of a problem, can usually be special cased on a case by case. e.g. in erlang's case you can do region based allocation per process: cons as much as you want, collect everything when process dies.
phf: re upstack gotta see how small an erlang vm can really be made. to some extent that work is going to be done with the whole tmsr scripting language direction, where we have different vm's explored on a cutting table.
asciilifeform: Mocky: process scheduler is annoying in re timing the instruction count used by a proggy . but doesn't leak anything if your proggy doesn't data-dependently address or branch.
Mocky: so then do you have to contend also with e.g. linux process scheduler?
asciilifeform: there is no room in that for the possibility of 'maybe right here gc kicks in, and will take variable time depending on what you've been doing for past week'
asciilifeform: troo determinism means that i can write the exact sequence of instructions that will execute in the routine, and the exact addresses that will be referenced as operands, in the exact order.
asciilifeform: as in, 'modular multiplication will use EXACTLY 16kB each time, and they will go in this-here range of addrs, which then will zero, and it will take N nanoseconds'
asciilifeform: Mocky: speaking of ~tight~ bounds, rather than upper/lower
Mocky: asciilifeform, what's the problem with gc in this context?
asciilifeform: even somehow abstracting over these -- proglang with gc is simply not acceptable in safety-critical/crypto proggy. it is at least in principle possible to write cl without cons; but afaik this is not practical in erlang
asciilifeform: i.e. yes it successfully cures pointerism, overflowism, but at the cost of massive ball of ??? runtime, making your proggy effectively unauditable and quite certainly unmicrocontrollerable
a111: Logged on 2018-05-19 18:36 asciilifeform: the closest runner-up contender was standard ml, but it demands a ~MB-sized runtime , and imposes gc , nobody is ever stuffing it into 32kB.
asciilifeform: phf: i actually liked erlang, and even considered for battlefield, but ended up rejecting for the same reason as standard ml, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815589
mircea_popescu passes on the pregnancy wisecracks.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843300 << little known fact: slime's architecture was originally implemented in a similar project for erlang called distel, by the same author luke gorrie. lukego also wrote an emacs clone in erlang and tcp/ip stack in cmucl.
mircea_popescu: "why don't you eat these delicious foods ? they've got meat in them!" "yeah, 80%, the rest is digoxin, who wouldn't eat them!" "you mean you're one of those tinfoil weirdos with the homeopathy ?" "yeah, actually. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843215 " "
BingoBoingo: Well, a lot of people struck with the mumps here were in their 30s which suggests stretching the vaccine out may be a fairly common thing here
asciilifeform: bahahahaha BingoBoingo , recall the 'mumps epidemic' in BingoBoingostan
asciilifeform: imho strange that the intellectual capital of its time went long on defense against mob with pitchforks and so very short on intellectual 'fortifications'
asciilifeform: afaik nobody even rammed at the oxford front wall, at all
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminiscent of the much later fall of su, fortress walls intact but raped through backdoor and via 5thcolumn
mircea_popescu: (not for me as much as for these fine fellows, they still like their middle earth etc)
mircea_popescu: the 2000s gutting is in http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/ ; don't ask about the 1900s gutting, it's too painful to think about
mircea_popescu: heh. that's the 1800s gutting.
mircea_popescu: the walls -- will be built. whether the king has the sense to hire masons to do it ; or the king is absent and darwin's stuck "holding the walls up with his back", http://trilema.com/2009/inchipuiti-va/ style... the walls will be built.
mircea_popescu: precisely how supposedly thinking people ended up writing papers on "global warming" and whatnot. grants amirite ? the COMFORT.
mircea_popescu: ie, monarchy got meanwhile overwhelmed by "democracy", so the moron mind was "in charge" so it dispensed largesse instead of trying to attack thought outright.
mircea_popescu: the problem in the time of darwin, however, was a bunch of morons trying to persuade him of their wisdom.
mircea_popescu: the problem in the time of newton was a bunhc of morons wanting to "burn down the sorcery".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta funny, from entomological pov, how 1 physically actual devil -- the half-century (and continuing) usg fondness for 'great seal'-style microwave bugs, where the power van yes - fries - the occupants of the bugged dwelling, 'cost of doing business' -- spawned entire pantheon of mythical contagions
a111: Logged on 2018-08-20 21:06 asciilifeform: for a laugh, look some time for spectrum analyzer on lulazon. will find 9000 'homeopathic' boxes for 'finding the cia mind control rays'.
mircea_popescu: which i suspect may actually be the principal destabilizing factor historically, driving the error generation process.
mircea_popescu: this being yet another aspect of the problems of man alone. absent a fortress where to do it, he's stuck solving some kinds of problems in some kinds of ways only.
mircea_popescu: fortress. so the people inside can fire cannon upon the peasants outside. because this fucking reason.
mircea_popescu: for instance, do you know why it has walls, and how they were ever used ?
mircea_popescu: what do you know of the history of oxford ?
mircea_popescu: without a formal AND FORMALIZED republic it's fucking hard for people to handle the orc pressure
mircea_popescu: hey, newton never published FOR REASONS rather than by neglect.
Mocky: in '99 I and 2 others wrote a web framework in java for use in our company's products, no such published thing was extant. shortly after someone else published identical item named 'struts', not stolen merely obvious solution. I then watched the published 'struts' turn into ever bigger piles of shit year over year and suffered job interviewers probing my knowledge of 'struts' and i think that quite colored my
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problems were 1. to determine the brachistochrone, and 2. to find a curve such that if any line drawn from a fixed point O cut it in P and Q then OP^n + OQ^n would be constant.
mircea_popescu: https://gordma.wordpress.com/2014/03/26/we-know-the-lion-by-his-claw/ << not terrible summary, anyway, even if terribly light on the maffs. but hey, "tanquam ex ungue leonem", lit hum etc.
mircea_popescu: very much tmsr problems, smack drab in the middle ages.
mircea_popescu: there was a problem circulated by the swiss circle of mathematicians, which he elegantly solved (anonymously). except they saw right through the anonymity, because doh, and begged him to select and publish the infinitesimal calculus method, lest someone else steals it.
Mocky: not the last point
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, infinitesimal calculus was exactly this, never published as such but merely used, "by the claw we know the lion" etc. you familiar with all that ?
mircea_popescu: so then : he, like you, also had "partial of code that I wrote *with* other intelligent people and partially of things that i just just wrote personally to simplify my own common tasks and found useful over a long period of time"
a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 15:41 mircea_popescu: "when you read a text and can distinguish the absurdities it contains from the actual sense, you may claim you have an anachronistic understanding of the matter ; but when you read the text and clearly see the ~necessity~ of the absurdities, their fundamentally-required-ness, and the circumstantialness of the sense, you may claim meaningful understanding of the item" as the witticism goes.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, newton was alchemist with strong religious notions WHO ALSO DID some math and published some physics observations. but AS A RESULT and FOR THE PURPOSE of his teological and alchemical studies.
mircea_popescu: right, that being the trap. "oh, he was physicist" "how do you know this ?"
mircea_popescu: well then yes.
Mocky: some is in production and was reviews by team members, others are more toolish and have not
mircea_popescu: the latter portion i mean.
Mocky: well ok then help me understand this: i have 'book of useful recipes' composed partial of code that I wrote *with* other intelligent people and partially of things that i just just wrote personally to simplify my own common tasks and found useful over a long period of time. is the latter portion 'man alone' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even in 19th c , usa was 'land of magical recipes', as is the fate of all culturally-impoverished chukchistans
mircea_popescu: the post-clinton america, intellectually as well as factually, is only useful to orcs&niggers anymore ; and pointedly not any longer useful to people.
mircea_popescu: THEN at said moment it switched into "here kids, i have this magical method to call books into programs now". these two aren't at all the same thing ; moreover, only one is useful to actual people.
mircea_popescu: basically, "library" was used historically (up until the http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ moment, whenever that was -- thanks hilary!) as "a sort of primitive V tree, genesis and all".
mircea_popescu: Mocky this is the core of the discussion : if it's orthogonal then you're doing it wrong, and also using the wrong symbol. the fucking point of library is exactly exposure to intelligent feedback ; NOT "a substitute way of writing code allowing you to call from books"
asciilifeform: 'take this box and pry no further, use as voodoo spellbook'
asciilifeform: Mocky: 'library' as conceived of by the redditards is a fundamentally anti-intellectual activity.
Mocky: whether you expose yourself to inteligent feedback is orthogonal to if you make some code into a library, no?
mircea_popescu: must make the work of esthlos that much easier.
mircea_popescu: i like how topics of conversation in #trilema are meta-stable, one can safely discuss whatever it is they were discussing without fear the convo will morph into completely unpredictable somethingelse within a dozen lines.
mircea_popescu: having somebody there who calls you a moron is unpleasant enough ; but not having them and by consequence not having any way to guess just how far off left field you slid... well... that's actually worse.
asciilifeform: not only 'errors accumulate', but in practice 'man alone' does not long drift, sooner or later drifts into one of the 9000+ intellectual mine fields and that's that, you get a new kanzure or graham or follower thereof etc
mircea_popescu: the issue of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=man+alone is very much related to the problem of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=coffin+liners in that they stem from the same source -- nobody else there to anchor your thought process. you understand what dead reconing is and how it fails ?
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to share libraries with thinking people so they can point out to you the obvious stupid. this is unrelated to the "you're not supposed to fucking call this as a function, you're supposed to read it as an algorithm, understant it, and implement it yourself"
mircea_popescu: "the fewer people wielding needles they encounter, the more capable they are of living in, and building upon, their soap bubble world"
mircea_popescu: Mocky no, that's a different concern. you familiar with the "people with needles" theory ?
mircea_popescu: but "we've all moved on" & "progressed past that" (thanks hilary!) and so now... they've got the problem of prototypes etc.
mircea_popescu: which is why the current "library" model has inherited the problem of interfacing : they're literally trying to call code from a book and it has problems
mircea_popescu: the expectation was you understand the algorithms and reimplement them, much the way V is designed to work.
mircea_popescu: Mocky he has a point, "library" is oreilly-ism. before the free/open source struggle for power, it was rather a teaching tool.
Mocky: and speaking of fortran, deskilling also goes hand in hand with the john backus vision of "algebra of programs" snap together lego coding
mircea_popescu: Mocky used to be called "script kiddies", the sort that "1. found this snippet online ; 2. tried it ; 3. decided it works"
asciilifeform: Mocky: in the era before down's syndrome sufferers were set to programming computer , 'library' was simply book of useful recipes, to be studied and ~understood~ and put to use with care -- e.g. 'numerical recipes in fortran' , knuth's aop, etc
Mocky: the deskilling goes hand in hand with proliferation of library-ism and github-ism. library in reality is the natural outcome of experienced practitioner isolating code that has no business freely mixing with other code. for use primarily by same person. but today the 99% see library as opaque boxes meant to pile up and put a little shit pile of new code on top
mod6: the rest can rtfm
mircea_popescu: in reality, 298mn just wanna click on catpics, http://trilema.com/2012/the-imbecilitarians/#selection-317.0-317.109 style, while daydreaming a little daydream. that's all. so yeah, 99% should just stfu.
mircea_popescu: yes, if out of 300mn cattle in the 50 contiguous states 287mn or so "hacked" shit together on their crapples then "99% just use".
mircea_popescu: that nobody has any such thing is simply not a bit of banal obviousness these overexcited morons ever stopped to consider.
mircea_popescu: Mocky there's this naive 1990s humanism whereby "the average mankind" will "make an encyclopedia" and "usher in a renaissance" etc. there's this hallucinatory notion of a certain kind of hipster utopian mind, whereby "people need tools for their private projects".
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 23:41 asciilifeform: generally -- the industrialist saw the artisan as a headache, and killed him. nao we get to 'enjoy' the fruits of de-artisan'ed industry.
Mocky: i agree re average developer. stepanov says i video that 1% should write library and 99% should just use. but that's bs. if 99% don't know algos or time complexity, then shouldn't be trusted with anything
asciilifeform: without them, the necessary, cleansing complexity collapse would have happened in 1990 when it was supposed to.
mircea_popescu: the shittiness of the "average human" is a large driver of shit, in those who deign to consider it.
asciilifeform: Mocky: the 'helpers of average developer' are the central devils of the software hell.
Mocky: stepanov strikes me as guy trying to do the right thing for a library to be used by millions of programs, while also being resigned to the shityness of c++ and of average developer
mircea_popescu: (i expect everyone's familiar with the tale of Klein Zaches genannt Zinnober ?)
mircea_popescu: how the fuck they manage to take the submission they're due the lords of the republic and plaster it on the zinnobers of inca... well... it's explained in http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#selection-185.965-185.1138
asciilifeform: ( then q would be, which miami is kanzure et al lured by. i propose 'upper miami', analogous to chukcha's 'upper tundra', i.e. valhalla )
mod6: asciilifeform: he mentioned at some point later in the video that software had gotten to such a horrible point (totally correct on that; this is in 2002), that the goverment should step in and regulate all of these things.
Mocky: this guy is the him, ru dude
asciilifeform: lol i thought stl was product of some ro d00d , rather than usg committee ?
mod6: It was a pretty informative overview of the design of STL. Guy was pretty good, had some funny points. The government regulation part made me recoil a bit.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: That's fine, gives us a chance to get my other question answered re wpmp. Just let us know. :]
mod6: mircea_popescu: Do you wish to have all the shared env stuff setup through you, or is this lady going to sign-up in the WoT herself?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other idiocies, https://marcrogers.org/2018/08/13/open-letter-to-the-hacker-community/
BingoBoingo: In other mine finds, "Redactora Freelance" is a things n>=1 girl uses to describe her latina job
mod6 goes back to reading the log
mod6: ben_vulpes: can you fill in the gaps here ^?
mod6: Whomever the user is, must also be in the wot as part of the script requires that the executor to enter in a password for the user, then PGP encrypting that temporary password to the user in the WoT.
mod6: Ok, so I think I can help with this here too -- as soon as we have an SSH key. There is a script to do at least the useradd part of this, which I can attempt to run with the given key.
mod6: asciilifeform BingoBoingo : Can you guys address Mr. Popescu's request above here ^. I haven't the slightest idea on that stuff.
asciilifeform: 'handy little tool here to identify potentially harmful users of the reddit community' << lol!!
mircea_popescu: mod6 can you spin me up a mp-wp instance on the shared item, see if we can counteract the illiterate part ?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-30 14:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in the list, it was a 1980s product that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a totem by the folx from yesterday's thread ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633873 )
a111: Logged on 2017-03-30 14:50 asciilifeform: trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked
mircea_popescu: who the fuck would want to compile every time a web hits
mircea_popescu: kaniini you gonna get with the program or get lost ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-squares-and-the-holes/#selection-647.0-659.1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'square holes' one
mircea_popescu: where's that trilema piece with the "baby turtles would have eaten you for breakfast" thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was, believe , a u.s. army shitshow. and we had locking doors simply to separate the valuable gear from 'it dept'
mircea_popescu: fuck all that shit, two generations of castrated morons thinking they have something to say to this world.
mircea_popescu: all the way to typographic nonsense in the 80s, which is why crapple even exists today.
mircea_popescu: it was an item continuously, since the days of chet tryina get 3 different shit packages to work by excruciating them on a wide wooden plank
asciilifeform: afaik in '80s the comp was responsibility of instrument man, no 'dept' yet.
mircea_popescu: the 90s is when this shit ~mostly died.
mircea_popescu: im so fucking sick of the 80s...
mircea_popescu: then you're stuck maintaining a whole "it department", the idiotic airs of "superiority" by the dweebs involved y compris, because gotta interface all that junk.
asciilifeform: naturally. it's somewhere down with the table legs.
mircea_popescu: and slides in under the "who'd pull a stink over 0.85%"
asciilifeform: nao if somebody had seen it fit to tell the machine builder that !
asciilifeform: ( 'it dept' carted away the 'obsolete' early-90s crapple, leaving the nao-useless scanner thing to sit sadly , occupying good chunk of a room )
asciilifeform: dun even have to go far into 'exotica' to witness this. 1 slave galley had a spiffy $maxint automatic book digitizer, that was a paperweight for decade+ because lost its greybeard and the ancient crapple it was tethered to
asciilifeform: the bolix item where subj was documented in l0gz in detail, was merely 1 example.
asciilifeform: then he retires and it goes to scrapyard, and replaced with 'modern', lol.
asciilifeform: typically even these have a greybeard 'attached' to the thing, lovingly tends the msdos 5.0 on old scsi disk, etc
mircea_popescu: back when the gaskets leaked.
mircea_popescu: rare exceptions, a la http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-mark-cuban/ ; mostly from the early days of the chumpatron
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you'd be surprised what % of trumpeted "great soviet financial coups" are exactly of the substance and consistency of forum investors' victories.
asciilifeform: ha, made a sale. that's much farther than asciilifeform got..
trinque: asciilifeform: don't worry, other half had to get raped on stock options prior to subsequent sale
trinque: poor guy. I had the good fortune to watch half a hardware startup get laid off at 16.
asciilifeform: if i had known that the real problem is the win95 that runs in natotards' ~heads~, would have saved coupla yrs of life and be somewhat less poor nao...
asciilifeform: ( 1 time asciilifeform took such a piece of industrial gear, carefully stripped off the microshit, wrote replacement, and tried to sell as product... but this tale is in the l0gz somewhere )
mircea_popescu: kinda in the manner windows-only interface gvies away the george supran-style "scientists", the kind that researches community consensuses.
asciilifeform: aha, blinkenlights, 'guarantees', 3-4fig price, the lot.
mircea_popescu: generally the "intuitive" interface gives it away.
asciilifeform: try an' buy any of a coupla basic things, and before you know it you're knee deep in the liquishit
mircea_popescu: stuff to do in the "den" for the sort of retard who can't figure out by looking whether charger cord reaches the socket or not, gotta try it out
asciilifeform: ( funnily enuff, at least a subset of these, ~are~ a kind of orcish spectral analyzer. but missing massive chunks of spectrum , 0 provision for external antennae , mostly display johnson noise )
asciilifeform: for a laugh, look some time for spectrum analyzer on lulazon. will find 9000 'homeopathic' boxes for 'finding the cia mind control rays'.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 04:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at one point i needed some conductive cloth (the kind with silver strands) for an experiment. to my great surprise, i discovered that there is a large manufacturer in usa, and they do brisk business with folks suffering from precisely the kind of phobia described in decimation's link.
mircea_popescu: if you think of it as a potentials map, suddenly it becomes evident : large cancerous accretion mass drives all other things closer together
a111: Logged on 2016-02-15 17:58 asciilifeform: specifically how there is no place in usa where one can 'i will pay double for non-monsanto but i don't give a fuck about 'gmo' and i sure as fuck don't want to see homeopathic crud in the shop'
a111: Logged on 2015-09-03 01:37 asciilifeform: the other interesting thing is that the market is segmented in such a way that anyone who doesn't want mcfood ends up paying for ~all~ the alt-crackpotteries, not merely the logical ones
asciilifeform: lulzily i documented this in the past , in http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-03#1260586 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-15#1406177
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 22:03 mircea_popescu: phf no, they just didn't have fish at the fish shop ; the meat they didn't have at the meat shop.
mircea_popescu: this is at the heart of soviet survival -- "we call it this but really it does that" aka http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561507
mircea_popescu: it HAS to be "strange" and "weird", otherwise can't make it in the ocean of "woke" shit.
asciilifeform: why pitched as homeopathic then
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this is how things go in lulzistan : "nutty" ideologies that survive do so because pick up the practical slack of soviet idiocy.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-20 20:03 asciilifeform: the only reason i even use lulazon for anyffing, 'pay 80bux/y and the rest of the yr can order 3 m3 screws and two metres of #10 copper shipped sameday for 0 extra' etc
mircea_popescu: find out just how well the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843161 pipe dream works.
ben_vulpes: eyy, anyone want to guess what i found in the toothpaste?
mircea_popescu: then idiots wanna talk about "what'd millionaires do with their time". certaintly, certainly not this, taking apart the heart of one's enemies so not on the list.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i get to read, you realise, the A papers of contemporary valedictorians and whatnot. the incas' brightest and bravest, career women to the last soul and whatnot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you should try this 'riddle' on fresh off the boat usian gurlz, btw. i shit thee not, they dun teach the 'times table' nomoar
asciilifeform: the red man, destroyed with firewater, ru indigenous ic factories -- with siemens gear, and pdp11. worked .
mircea_popescu: "if everything's uncomputably large then therefore i no longer have to be able to say 7 * 69 = 483 within a second or so"
a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 16:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the probable "cause" for there not being sane dict for living langs, you realise, is that there IS such a thing as a cannonical body of greek, but "who is to say what anglovomit does not make the cut".
mircea_popescu: very much a direct translation of "throwing the curve", ie, "if http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-16#1842058 then therefore prof MP can't flunk as all for not having had done the homework"
mircea_popescu: ye olde hope of the "democratic" "paficist" panworldism : if nobody can as much as fart without involving ~everyone else, "world peace".
asciilifeform: ( the remnants of ru ic capability -- definitely known to. fughet even ic, even kalash in izhevsk made on german mills. )
asciilifeform: this goes even for the asian industrial titans. last i knew, chinese ic fabs still were using gear from siemens etc
asciilifeform: some monkey reservations still sitting on result of 100+y of human activity; others -- not; is the only real diff.
asciilifeform: the end of that road loox something like BingoBoingostan, where if you want to get something other than pile of goat shit or a 'samsung' lcd tv, gotta smuggle it past the border in anal pouches
asciilifeform: ( usa is pretty far along this zimbabweization continuum, and definitely sliding as we speak, but it is still possible to get parts there in day or 2 , reliably. for nao... )
a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 14:14 asciilifeform: kurt tank tore out his hair, iirc 'they don't even know how to make machine screws'
asciilifeform: the unfortunate bit tho is that industrial production (not even speaking of laboratory experimentation) is agonizingly centralized; if i had to set up FG production in bananistan, would prolly still be stuck sourcing resistors, and tearing out hair, like kurt tank in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839406
a111: Logged on 2018-05-11 21:01 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: astronomical rents, i suspect, also play a part. it is ~impossible to stay open if you stock anything that doesn't move continuously. specialist shops are the first to die.
mircea_popescu: in general, "sell the policeman an apple for twice what you'd sell it to an orc" is sounder policy than alternatives.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-18 22:49 mircea_popescu: anyway, ~this~ is the "network effect" advantage : that should amazon's cart fail for three minutes, amazon would lose ~0 dollar value -- those schmucks will just come back. this is the niche the empire ever hopes to inhabit, and that it works is directly evident in the decrease of quality of life the zeks permitted over the past century. great-grandfather of ustard, ozlander or argentine lived A LOT better than the grandfath
a111: Logged on 2018-08-17 20:17 mircea_popescu: "you want diplomatic relations, first you pay 10x what we think you broke should be valued at, then maybe"
mircea_popescu: using the sort of devices which make inca's seat an added tax, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-17#1842669 , rather than a natural bonus, as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-18#1842837
mircea_popescu: anyway, in the general, a most important chore of the republic is to destroy the economic basis of "paris", ie the notional metropolis,
asciilifeform: the only reason i even use lulazon for anyffing, 'pay 80bux/y and the rest of the yr can order 3 m3 screws and two metres of #10 copper shipped sameday for 0 extra' etc
mircea_popescu: as it is, the politics carefully (and secretly) constraining it, all that's left visible is harmless nonsense, a la "saudis buyers of luxury cars"
mircea_popescu: but yes, it could be. if not specifically suppressed ~by policy~, the major-est market for german machinery would have been russia, and the biggest buyers of machineguns the zulu etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. notice how amazon carefully charges the shipping separately.\
mircea_popescu: in any case, let it not be said economy is ~necessarily~ centralizing. if one uses the strand of centralizing devices, it can be. one doesn't have to.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik. and mostly sold to non-metropolitans, because those are fucked in the head and have "fashions" to explain why they suck.
mircea_popescu: ie, "all good things flow ~away~ from the town", reversal of ye olde greek observation.
mircea_popescu: consequently, this sort of auction actually favours the shipping, especially of choice goods, AWAY from the city.
mircea_popescu: obviously people bake in the cost of their peripheral-ness in their price judgements, which is why i'm willing to pay 10 bux a pound for cherries here, whereas in romania they're ~free for the picking.
mircea_popescu: because the actual item delivered (something + ~shipping~) varies according to who buys it, there's actually a larger incentive for agents located ~at the periphery~ to buy it. ie, if you live in paris and shipping is 1 ecu, a bit of 100 ecu means you're paying 99 ecu for the item. if you live however in christchurch and shipping is 99 ecu, a 100 ecu bid means you're getting the item for 1 ecu.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, for they interested in "price theory" : the above is an exemplar of an interesting class of economic objects, anti-metropolitan let's call them.
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-12-18 20:44:22: <lobbesbot> AUCTION # 163 has ENDED: The very notebook displayed in http://trilema.com/2017/of-ducks-and-lameness/ ! Free shipping anywhere in the world included. SOLD to danielpbarron for 1mn coppers. Attn: mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: 'shards of the true cross'(tm)(r) eh
asciilifeform doesn't own much in the way of toys with aftermarket value
mircea_popescu: weren't you going to do an inventory of your midden, to finance something or the other at some point ?
asciilifeform: speaking of this, if any l1 folx wants the c101pa carcass, probes and all, and the spare MBs etc, plox to write in
asciilifeform destroyed unspeakably fine toys by the crateload, to the great frustration of his elder brother
mircea_popescu: immaturity, if you will, most intelligent small children are consumed by a desire to destroy their toys to see what's inside.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't clear to me that jacobins etc actually believed in anyffing other than 'let's burn shit down'
asciilifeform: there's a d00d on my street who goes on, i shit thee not, 10 minute long car trips. 8 or so times in a day. ( i think, to buy mcfood ) but just picture this .
mircea_popescu: in a sense, there's never been things that were contained of as little thingness. really, 1ppm or less ? such performance takes surprise, fear and a fanatical devotion to the pope.
asciilifeform: recall the 'small bullet'/'covering fire' thread aha
mircea_popescu: do you realise less than one in a million hits anything these days ?! never has the quarry/bullet relationship been this tenuous.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the best illustration for this problem is ye olde bullet. as proper a quanta of civilisation as one might ever pick.
mircea_popescu: then "consumerism" is the perfect hidey hut for this state of affairs -- "oh, we're dedicated to the production of things" "yes, for as long as they lack any substance".
mircea_popescu: in short, it's better because it produces no things and lots of words -- the ideal state for the jwz. that's what neil simon wants of life, yes, a situation where no things issue but as many words as possible.
mircea_popescu: basically, "all humans could be any other humans, and if they aren't it's because NOT YET". much better than whatever marat believed in, or the jacobins, or etc. and here by "better" we mean both a) inconsequential, improductive, entirely steriole and b) flashy, marketable
mircea_popescu: much like the united states were stuck because the only king they had avaialble didn't want the job, ended up enthroning a length of poster.
mircea_popescu: there's this nonsense that emerged as a replacement jolly-joker philosophy out of the french revolution. they had a major problem picking something to believe in, and eventually settled on "humanism" in the "enlightenment" sense of the term.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-20 17:40 mircea_popescu: nobody ever learns from another other than in a metaphorical sense.
mircea_popescu: because, at the risk of repeating ourselves, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843034
mircea_popescu: the notion of this imaginary "perfectibility" of the individual human had to crash eventually.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-20 17:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, "it makes me so nervous but i trust you" explains the difference -- slave's well advantaged wrt zek. who's a zek to trust, he's supposed to be something entirely else.
mircea_popescu: he same role as the chunk of wood on dog's collar, prevents it from going through the bars"
a111: Logged on 2018-06-22 04:08 mircea_popescu: btw, did we do the "you too can be novelist, buy our narrative card deck and kit" 1800s us entrepreneurialism ?
mircea_popescu: rather, tis the necessary blossom of bogart's "all that dun ammount to a hill of beans in this crazy world". the necessary result of the "rationalist" fallacy (seen sprawling in say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-22#1828645 ) and the century reversal of the penile fixation (from stuffy vienna's "civilised world" anxiety of "what if dad cuts it off" to today's stuffy washington's "civilised world" anxity of "what if it plays t
asciilifeform: folx who wanted curtain call, jumped the wire, got shot fulla holes, errybody else -- not, no choppings or other oddities, nobody particularly eager to lie down in mengele's hospital.
asciilifeform: afaik in german camps nobody chopped off own hands, feet, there was no +ev in it
a111: Logged on 2018-08-20 18:21 mircea_popescu will confess he always found it suspicious how a buncha derps who "never heard of trilema" somehow magically decided they're really women trapped in wrong bodies the VERY FUCKING MOMENT male market value dropped to nothing at all.
asciilifeform: re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843083 item, i suspect it is same general psychopathology as prisoners who bang their heads, blow up own feet with blasting caps, etc to get a stint in hospital as break from butugychag uranium vein tunnel, 'care' from medics, etc
mircea_popescu: right. i pick heuristically rather than systematically.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: frederick's men were likewise free of sr-90 in bones, and corn syrop fat, and 9000+ else. i have nfi specifically what to pin whichever diff on, therefore.
mircea_popescu: how about that! isn't that the greatest pun that ever lived ?
mircea_popescu: the first and foremost task before every would-be "intelligence", artificial or otherwise, is to silence the johnson noise.
asciilifeform: but afaik they aint
asciilifeform: it'd be 1 thing if they were all makin' their way, on anyffing that floats or flies, to thailand or wherever the aficionados live
mircea_popescu: somehow unknown in the days of Denn träf jede Kugel apart ihren Mann wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
asciilifeform: tho i suppose as pure cargo cult, hypothesis floats
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doubt that's it, the 'market value' of postoperative strange is ~= 0 in either male or female 'hut'
mircea_popescu will confess he always found it suspicious how a buncha derps who "never heard of trilema" somehow magically decided they're really women trapped in wrong bodies the VERY FUCKING MOMENT male market value dropped to nothing at all.