ThickAsThieves: i mean people are panicking, thinking they are actually selling at a loss so they can buy cheaper
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i thought they were 5k btc yest.
ThickAsThieves: or maybe the feed was outta whack
ThickAsThieves: how do they many orders just appear?
ThickAsThieves: then like 3000btc of bids reappeared
ThickAsThieves: the book just disappeared and reappeared
Vexual: do they still have any magic cards to trade?
ThickAsThieves: maybe Silk Road 3 will be the charm!
the20year1: however at one time the $ over coinbase price was quite high
ThickAsThieves: goxcash and $ are not the same
the20year1: There is now nearly a $200 gap between gox and coinbase
ThickAsThieves: though the book looks better now
herbijudlestoids: iv come up with a new strategy to keep hitting the bids with tiny increments and keep the last price down, somebody doesnt like it and has been thickening the book for me
herbijudlestoids: lol thx for the tips ThickAsThieves
gribble: There are currently 29342.931 bitcoins offered at or under 10000.0 USD, worth 33898938.0649 USD in total. | Data vintage: 87.7646 seconds
mircea_popescu: if only they could be decentralised it'd work.
herbijudlestoids: pankkake: there is a slashdot boycott underway you know :P
ozbot: Linksys Routers Exploited By "TheMoon" - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: random_cat same as always, the bitcoincharts usd basket
herbijudlestoids: usually when you type mircea_popescu i feel like there is a ray of insight and knowledge which i can catch and appreciate. not so much today.
mircea_popescu: this distinction, which may appear without a difference, is actually the whole story.
herbijudlestoids: soooo basically, everything fighting entropy in any form whatsoever is now analoguous to obama trying to kickstart the economy
mircea_popescu: it would seem you are substantially both the same thing doing the same thing : having identified a "better" state and labouring to enact this notion of yours into reality.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids the us economy is in state S, obama intends to move it to state S'.
herbijudlestoids: for the retarded, pls explicitly state what is the point of contact between trying to establish liquidity for exchanging ATCBTC and obama trying to kickstart a disjoint complex system in failure mode
jimjenkin: everyone in crypto is trying to build an ecosystem, but they never explain what that ecosystem actually is
mircea_popescu: so you perceive no point of contact between the two whatsoever ?
mircea_popescu: how is this different from obama trying to "restart the economy" ?
mircea_popescu: so you were not trying to turn a profit, but to build up the ecosystem.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i was not specifically, with the amount of capital input, trying to turn a profit. no. i figured that was clear but apparently not. the goal, specifically, was to entice an "ecosystem" as you put it, into existence, from which a profit can actually be derived.
jimjenkin: mircea_popescu: can you talk about the latest developments regarding the tx mal. bullshit, does it matter?
mircea_popescu: mike_c also why slaves are the most educable. they own nothing, are immune to nothing, have no choice but tu learn.
mircea_popescu: so you said hail mary before stepping on the battlefield. so ?
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> <sigh> you want to learn your lessons when they only cost $9 or when they cost more? << the problem here is, of course, that people will waive their immunity to reality when reality is still powerless. this kind of puts a low bound on everyone's education, and this is why it's so much cheaper to educate poor kids.
herbijudlestoids: i already said from the beginning that its highly unlikely for any business to succeed if undercapitalised and in this case i am undercapitalised for "daytrading ATC on openex"
herbijudlestoids: i couldnt decipher what the potential was on questioning
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: the purpose of my activity, like i explained to you (now 3 times) was to have a go at something i was skeptical would work, specifically because you seemed to think there was some potential in trying the idea out
jimjenkin: the man asked you a question
herbijudlestoids: profit can come when there is an actual stack of bids and offers to sell into, in the meantime can make a small market around the diff implied price which encourages others to do same, generating the potential for daytrading, etc
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: what i said to you from the very beginning was that there is no profit to turn, except in the potential for MM, which i am underfunded for, but i would give a crack anyway
mircea_popescu: jimjenkin norway has the advantage it doesn't need to build self-sustaining system, because they're getting free money from the sea.
mircea_popescu: were you trying to turn a profit, were you trying to improve the atc ecosystem, what was it ?
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i just explained it? nature does not build systems which drift from equilibrium. obama is literally riding a complex system in escape velocity. the implication is that what i tried to do is ...incorrect...because its obama-esque and not nature-esque...im saying thats so far from what i was trying to accomplish, that i dont understand the connection
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids anyway, it's nothing as heavyhanded as "a lesson" blabla, it's just we apparently all seem to see sometyhing there.
Apocalyptic: damn i missed the new trilema
mike_c: herb, i wasn't trying to rile you up. i was just commenting on you saying you didn't care because you lost $9. my point was that's the best kind of loss to learn from if you can.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: in no sense am i trying to build a complex system, just provide the seedbed for liquidity in ATCBTC on openex, in the hopes of enticing others to do similar
herbijudlestoids: this all started because mircea_popescu asked if i would be his "ATC daytrader on openex" because i mentioned having put on a small cascade of limit sells last night...and i said i didnt think there was anything to the market except the potential for MM
herbijudlestoids: mike_c: yall seem convinced that you have taught me some kind of lesson...or that im learning it...or whatever...all i can see is approx what i said would happen if undercapitalised, happened. i dont really take any exception to it happening, but to the idea that there was some kind of inherent lesson, or some point, whatever... i dont see it
mircea_popescu: and generally, the ideology surrounding bitcoin is that these two are irreconciliable, and the 2nd is wrong.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids no but see, the argument is that nature did well enough populating the earth without trying to populate the earth
mike_c: nevermind, nevermind. anyway, the spread has gotten lower.
ozbot: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Well, the point is they should be different from Doge markets with their pumping and dumping and a lack of actual value
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gg | GG. "Good Game" 1. A polite remark uttered after the end of a round, game, or other measured interval to indicate that a match was fair and enjoyable. Usually ...
herbijudlestoids: yea im not really sure what the argument is other than BingoBoingo wanted to prove some point about the way BTC markets should be
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you're focusing on the wrong aspect here. nobody is proposing you should be hanged, the argument isn't that o woe, you lost your dwelling and your woman and your future playing barbute with teh atc market.
herbijudlestoids: i will just have to get another $9 :P
mircea_popescu: well yes, it's what generally goes on in the markets.
herbijudlestoids: i can keep the idiots far away
herbijudlestoids: as long as the spread is wide it costs me almost nothing to keep the last at 110 :P
mircea_popescu: jayk ah, nope. they claimed it was some slovenian band but it turned out to be a scam
mircea_popescu: not saying it isn't necessarily, but curious as to the rationale.
mike_c: omg. their order matching is horrible
jayk: oh id have to look for the picture
mircea_popescu: and now i want the world to see
kakobrekla: > I'm not sure why I ordered 8 rather than 9 upgrades, perhaps it was all we could afford at the time.
herbijudlestoids: so if i make a profit, but i cant make another profit, it counts as getting creamed?
mircea_popescu: either what you do is profitable and sustainable, or else it isn't. we have a word for that latter.
mircea_popescu: so then you got creamed.
mircea_popescu: or you mean, the atc was above ?
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: no problem specifically, but its unsustainable, id prefer to continue making a market around the diff implied price than not
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i sold some BTC for some ATC? at above the diff implied price?
mircea_popescu: well what happened here then lol
mircea_popescu: check it out, kate's back, they say.
herbijudlestoids: well, it was my assumption that BingoBoingo wouldnt wanna see the last trade as ~100 but i guess i was wrong
BingoBoingo: When he put in asks I also found them palatable.
herbijudlestoids: i dun have enough BTC to keep the shenanigans goin
herbijudlestoids: nah i put some bids in, try and create some interest, bingo wanted the bids instead of pass the parcel...now nothin
mircea_popescu: rather than your own
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: unless i'm missing something, trade only happens when buyer and seller agree on a price. when goods change hands regardless, we usually use another word for it.
mircea_popescu: and then ThickAsThieves also bought some iirc, so did you
herbijudlestoids: from all trades listed in the recent trades window
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: trades only when there is an agreement between buyers and sellers on value << where have you traded - and what? - where trade happens in some other way?
herbijudlestoids: i count the cumulative volume as 0.18
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: No the correct state is trades only when there is an agreement between buyers and sellers on value.
mircea_popescu: what is the atc voluem to date actually ?
herbijudlestoids: right, so the correct state of ATCBTC is no trades? gg
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Consider the spreads on S.BBET and S.NSA
BingoBoingo: It is more important the market actually BE right, than to look "right"
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Consider this a lesson in fundamental assumptions that vary between the fiat and BTC worlds. Fiat can have money come in at any price.
herbijudlestoids: probly between me and you there has been more activity in ATCBTC in the last hour than the last 5 days
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: yer, in which case the spread stays at 300 and nobody gives a fuck about the market
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I believe this point came up in the -assets log earlier. You didn't need someone with 100 BTC to beat your efforts at Market Marking. All it took as someone with 0.015 BTC and some ATC.
Vexual: im coming to the party
kakobrekla: first you need to fake up the volume
herbijudlestoids: we coulda played pass the parcel
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: the goal was to seed a microstructure, but if you dont want one, thats coo :) i can just lift the offers
kakobrekla: the what?
BingoBoingo: Except for that mistake in their order matching left me down some ATC, because string and cans
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: My favorite part of this exercise is the one where I nao have moar ATC and BTC
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: You are the one who keeps Buying high and selling low
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: if you want the market to be liquid at ~100 so be it :P
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: old owner still had working passwords - half a year after the transfer was completed" << Butugichag is waiting with open arms for these fine folks.
Duffer1: "Will be doing huge pumps in the future. Honest, safe, never pre-pump."
mircea_popescu: basically the concept of altcoin matched just perfectly on the preexisting pump and dump thing.
herbijudlestoids: lets see how you like this then
mircea_popescu: http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/146/0/1/dat_pussy__lol_by_i_am_jeff_the_killer-d66m0tr.jpg
mircea_popescu: i had no idea there's ecosystem
kakobrekla: is the market cap > than 1 pussy ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm just waiting for the next challenger to try to close the bid-ask spread
pankkake: well, I updated the makefile, older boost versions don't need that change
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: check the ATC trade history
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: They were executed after the sale at 110 satoshis. Because I had to target them at the exact price
Apocalyptic: in my experience they weren't
herbijudlestoids: they were executed!
herbijudlestoids: it didnt skip them
mircea_popescu: why skip them
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids so it puts unfunded bids on the book ?!
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: cos theres no liquidity in my bids
mircea_popescu: <Apocalyptic> order will get executed at that price even if their are better bids << ahahaha WHAT
Apocalyptic: order will get executed at that price even if their are better bids
Apocalyptic: <herbijudlestoids> BingoBoingo: whats specifically wrong with the order matching? // try to sell for a price of 0.00001
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: whats specifically wrong with the order matching?
kakobrekla: the string, is not tight enough.
BingoBoingo: Their order matching seems to be shit as well.
Apocalyptic: the guy running it is a nobody with shady past history afaik, UI is shit, the engine is PHP and looks like shit too
herbijudlestoids: Apocalyptic: if i can convince some other fuckers to be doing the same thing then it starts to roll
Apocalyptic: your spread has to be higher than the commission in order to make it profitable disregarding price movement
herbijudlestoids: i am not the only one with this game in mind it seems, someone has an algo waiting
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you can load the page ?
herbijudlestoids: i am aware that there is a commission, yes...what does that have to do with the bid/ask spread?
Apocalyptic: <herbijudlestoids> okkk..the spread on ATCBTC is now 1 satoshi // you're aware of the fees right ?
mircea_popescu: china likely won't retaliate and that's the whole story.
mircea_popescu: decimation not quite. the russians would retaliate against the us and eu, the us would probably retaliate against china,
herbijudlestoids: okkk..the spread on ATCBTC is now 1 satoshi
ThickAsThieves: technically they dont want romanians reading it
decimation: indeed, and any attack against a nuclear state with nukes must always be considered suicidal because of the uncertainty about counter-strikes
pankkake: I thought you just had to bribe them
ThickAsThieves: from Cryptsy "We pick coins based on what we perceive the volume will be not based on any criteria you can just meet."
mircea_popescu: this is in fact the laser pointer argument all over again. the earth is very large. nukes are rather limited. see
decimation: the pressure and fire, not so much perhaps
decimation: even in the red zone you would likely survive the immediate radiation if you were in a simple bunker
mircea_popescu: the guarantee is that it won't matter. it won't.
mircea_popescu: jurov the guarantee isn't that no city will be hit. in fact as i say above, at least one already has.
mircea_popescu: moreover, practically : tokyo was hit worse than if the us had actually detonated a large nuclear warhead.
decimation: nuking the place ruins the value, making it a foolish proposition for any rational actor
decimation: well, the ultimate argument against nukes today is that wealth is not held physically anymore
mircea_popescu: wait till you read the blogfeeds.
mircea_popescu: one that's not tailored to the last lost war and its constraints.
mircea_popescu: one of the reason this sovereign beats that sovereign is that it has a better definition of sovereignity.
decimation: and the delivery mechanisms
mircea_popescu: you have to maintain them
decimation: the DoD will be broke
decimation: indeed, and once a 'bitcoin sovereign' acquires nukes, the foothold will be forever established
mircea_popescu: if they're cheap enough, why not.
mircea_popescu: decimation what happened to the russian nukes ?
decimation: interesting. the trouble with a turbulant future for the US (or other nuclear powers) is: what happens to the nukes?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids war lite. people shooting each other with small arms as if it were burbank.
herbijudlestoids: although the senkakku/daiyou island stuff is troubling
mircea_popescu: so i can totally see arizona liberated by the las vegas cocksucker tribe.
mircea_popescu: including a certain high ranking chick the french king.
jurov: mircea_popescu: maybe north korea will invade the south once us troops go home
mircea_popescu: decimation incidentally, you know how late venice resolved the problem of french invaders ?
mircea_popescu: obviously should the russians, chinese, saudi, israelis etc etc actually want to set foot
decimation: no they will stop that
decimation: I guess if everyone is at fault then nobody is at fault
decimation: Well, almost all "sovereign" nations today define themselves in relation to US power
KRS-One: not sure about the stability part, but it will be felt.
mircea_popescu: no argument that it will probably get bloody around this argument rather than any other,
decimation: some states are fairly homogeneous, and the idea of a 'state' is a sufficient Schelling point around which militia can rally
decimation: especially the ones that haven't been demographically ruined
decimation: yeah, there are many possibilities but the most likely seems to be falling back to individual soviergnty of the states
mircea_popescu: davout me either, but cleavage.
mircea_popescu: the us is a large, federal (as opposed to national) construct.
pankkake: me neither
mircea_popescu: this is why attacking the currency is so paramountly important.
davout: mircea_popescu: nice article, preaching to the converted :-)
mircea_popescu: louis had the rule by bureaucracy down pat.
mircea_popescu: it is very unstable once the currency is attacked.
mircea_popescu: it's only stable for as long as there's no new technology.
decimation: The trick that the us government must navigate is to make the people still think they matter while making all the real decisions for them
mircea_popescu: so then yes it can entirely ignore it.
decimation: look at the Eastern Roman empire, and China
decimation: This is mostly true, but the civil service can't entirely ignore the media either. On the other hand, the civil service also tells the media what to print
mircea_popescu: so basically... the press is just living off handouts, the academia mostly wishes to circlejerk undisturbed, has first dibs on available cash and otherwise grumbles but is thankful if resources dwindle
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I can't guarantee I'll be awake that far into the future.
decimation: The civil service in the US is mostly a jobs program, but the elite staff at the top generally knows what they are doing (like Ceausescu, they have learned through doing)
mircea_popescu: not because the guy orders them killed, but because the guy is actrually smarter than them, and breaks off their metaphorical arms and beats them into a pulp with them
mircea_popescu: this, i am convinced, is the situation of the us academia : they tell each other they're smart,
mircea_popescu: the man passed for an idiot in their theoretical writings, he owns them on the floor. not because of a threat of violence, but through simple intellectual superiority.
mircea_popescu: it summarizes a book, which is mostly built on the stenographs of romania's dictator and sole source of power,
mircea_popescu: that's the article, in romanian.
Apocalyptic: herbijudlestoids, was the bug security-related ?
herbijudlestoids: im about to narrow the fuck out of that spread
mircea_popescu: the academia has... you know, the exact power of romania's "dissident" "inteligentsia"
mircea_popescu: the media has no power.
decimation: Moldbug is more-or-less correct about the power that rules the us; it's the coordinated actions of the media, civil service, and academia (and all their attachments)
decimation: you wrote a few days ago about the lunacy of a self-enforcing contract due to the context of language
mircea_popescu: decimation hey, in that sense simply living in the us is taking your life in your hands.
decimation: there is a thing called the "roth IRA" where you save post-income-tax money; USG claims it will never tax it again