asciilifeform: who the hell pays for trojans, also
mircea_popescu: back in the day a man became eligible for marriage once he could fix his own fucking cart.
mircea_popescu: if you need the admin to fix your computer you may not use one.
asciilifeform: yeah i never understood the appeal of giving slaves actual computers. give them graphic terminals and be done with it
mircea_popescu: well ya, but nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: you have to be completely broken i nthe head to imagine there is such a thing as a legitimate rat.
mircea_popescu: The White Hat RAT A legitimate network administrator needs to quickly perform updates or solve problems for numerous users, so he has a legitimate reasons to install a remote administration tool on all of the systems under his supervision. This would allow him to make changes and/or catch people going against the companies computer use policy for all of the users without leaving his desk.
asciilifeform: the art of turdcraft has really gone down hill, people write shit in vb even.
mircea_popescu: i mean " multi-MB nsa turd in lua" shoud have read "the lua in the multi-MB nsa turd"
mircea_popescu: mike_c none. but im just saying practically, people do what they do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so the lua relation seems merely happenstance
mircea_popescu: and the thing was actually xml as opposed to xml-ish
mircea_popescu: mike_c but as to the practical question...
mircea_popescu: i mean in some sort of application with some other function or destination than showcasing xml
asciilifeform: anyone remember the multi-MB nsa turd in lua?
mircea_popescu: mike_c whatever's in the code is currently xml-ish.
mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones the kids don't seem to, which means you'll probably have your work cut out for you until you fall over
mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones sure, for the first 1k lines.
mircea_popescu: or just try to live with the idiocy of nonsensical xml horror.
mircea_popescu: i'm still waffly whether the entire thing should be torn out and re-written (which you know, 16th standard problem as well as joel's netscape objections)
mircea_popescu: there are some ad-hoc scripting things we're fighting with atm
davout: mircea_popescu: well that's kind of like mpex, "here are the rules; like it or not, but its how this thing works"
mircea_popescu: ppl spent half a day debugging bizarre eulora errors only to discover the name of a variable happened to be a language construct and those you have to quote a CERTAIN way
davout: classes, functions, w/e they're all objects!
mircea_popescu: for the record, mysql is equally idiotic about this.
mircea_popescu: unless they were going to do something evil with it.
mircea_popescu: Including a file dumps its variables into the current functions scope (and gives the file access to your variables), but dumps functions and classes into global scope.
mircea_popescu: the sides are stiffening, we shall have battle.
benkay: now it's "they're just moving too much money. you're not allowed to move more than 30K without our permission."
benkay: originally "these horrible credit card fraudsters"
benkay: neat to note how the spin is changing: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/10165/floridas-bitcoin-sting-cast-doubt-law-enforcements-priorities-money-laundering-laws/
mircea_popescu: and sell the employees into slavery.
mircea_popescu: another court said stfu and pay or else we take your computors
mircea_popescu: the agency was not built with a lawyer budget, so it couldn't pay
mircea_popescu: the station sued the agency. the court ordered the agency stfu and pay the stations' lawyers
benkay: mircea_popescu: that's the point. avoiding "all of those things" is an impossible task.
mircea_popescu: i don't think any government in the world gets so badly raped in the courts as the romanian one.
mircea_popescu: (really, it doesn't want rich foreigners coming in scooping their shit country for cheap)
ThickAsThieves: also does Italy not want money coming there anymore?
mircea_popescu: the next year the tax code was altered mid exercise, and to be applied from the beginning of the exercise.
mircea_popescu: because the govt kept doing this.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i can do you one better : romania passed an organic law saying that the tax code can not be altered mid exercise
ThickAsThieves: "we learn that Italy has just ordered banks to withhold a 20% tax on all inbound wire transfers: a decree which on to of everything will apply retroactively to February 1" i missed the retro part initially ... wtf?
mircea_popescu: pankkake i was quoting from there
mircea_popescu: benkay either that or discover more things.
pankkake: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ is the best on the subject, I found
mircea_popescu: nondeterministic; it depends on the order in which the sort algorithm happens to compare elements.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is what is meant by the beetleman metaphore.
davout: benkay: denies at the same time, anyway
davout: mircea_popescu: i told the owner, the kangasbros guy that bitcoincentral.com redirected to localbitcoins.com, a minutes after it gives me a blank page and starts working again as soon as i change IP
mircea_popescu: <php echo "okthen ThickAsThieves;">
mircea_popescu: there you go person : someone resurected the kraken harnett & co shat all over in 2012.
mircea_popescu: who was arguing for the good idea=ness of using dead brands ?
davout: somehow, two minutes after i tell lb owner about it my ip gets blocked, and the domain only works from my cell disconnected from wifi
kakobrekla: they also squated that much worth of domains
davout: check-out this faggotry, visit the link bitcoincentral.com
mircea_popescu: i have no idea they even had a business model.
davout: i don't, know, isn't that their business model?
davout: mircea_popescu: you'd be paying them fees for this
mircea_popescu: so basically i can just put the price anywhere by reporting trades on localbitcoins
mircea_popescu: omg they have localbitcoins
r3wt: btw, openex lua is done man, it is a complete rethink. i would have a few days of moving/converting the db to the new structure but it is basically all done except for sockets and the migration of the db structure
pankkake: r3wt: just keep in mind if you write more php. almost all other languages have libs in the style of PHP PDO
mircea_popescu: peterl i could. and then my own bitcoin and my own planet
ThickAsThieves: my openex withdrawals are done, the delay was partially due to Chrome autofilling my username into the address field
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is one to trust an avg which includes > 25% pure unadulterated crud.
r3wt: yeah, php is an odd language im not sure why i learned it other than there is just alot of info on it out there and it seemed easy for me to learn
pankkake: "implode() can, for historical reasons, accept its parameters in either order"
pankkake: my innefiencies with php was mostly… looking up the order of function arguments, as they were so inconsistent
davout: r3wt: what makes a language hard to me is the lack of internal consistency it can have
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, absent any effort for deep understanding of meaning and grammar, no actual language learning takes place.
mircea_popescu: learning more languages never heart anyone, be they computer or natural.
r3wt: that is a tough task for me. i find myself doing alot of reading and then some trial and error
davout: r3wt: tbh i think what matters most isn't the language, is to strive to understand exactly what's hapenning
mircea_popescu: In other words, I was unsuccessful in explaining this rather basic concept. They got it blisteringly wrong, and hacked this wrongness into the language for all time. I attempted to explain (much more patiently than here) that no, this is not what === is supposed to do, but I wasn't heard. Not by Zeev, not by anyone else on channel. No one got it at all.
mircea_popescu: does === fail to do object identity testing, it's simply '==', does all the "deep comparison" of ==, but also bothers to compare the type.
mircea_popescu: Amen to the cavalier attitude. You know about PHP's Javascript-esque === operator? (that's the one with three equals signs). That got designed on the spot in an IRC session with Zeev and some other devs. Because I actually had to explain to these folks what the concept of "object identity" was, i.e. what lisp does with 'eq', python does with 'is', and Javascript does with ===. Yes, because PHP's is different. Not only
mircea_popescu: For the same reason, "6" == " 6", "4.2" == "4.20", and "133" == "0133". But note that 133 != 0133, because 0133 is octal. But "0x10" == "16" and "1e3" == "1000"!
mircea_popescu: == converts to numbers when possible ( 123 == "123foo"
although "123" != "123foo"), which means it converts to floats when possible. So large hex strings (like, say, password hashes) may occasionally compare true when theyre not. Even JavaScript doesnt do this.
Apocalyptic: <davout> ==> "is this cube equal to this sphere?" sure, they're both made of wood! // sure, because maleability
davout: PHP looks like the language of choice for quantum physics
davout: ==> "is this cube equal to this sphere?" sure, they're both made of wood!
Namworld: === in PHP? What the heck does that do? Can't recall ever using 3 =
mircea_popescu: now show me any other language which actually MAKES programmers.
mircea_popescu: out of which there were maybe even 2 actual programmers.
mircea_popescu: the time thus spent resulted in at least 3k babies,
r3wt: php is shit. i will always like it because its my first thing i learned but even i can realize the problems it has
kakobrekla: echo that motherfucker.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, a digital scrapbook for the information superhighway
mircea_popescu: i still don't believe there's anything that even comes close to php for as long as what you're doing is basically... a blog.
davout: "PHP takes vast amounts of inspiration from other languages, yet still manages to be incomprehensible to anyone who knows those languages." <<< truth
mike_c: you don't see other languages accidentally crapping the source code all over the web when something goes wrong
mircea_popescu: is there some system call construct in php ?
mircea_popescu: mike_c what's so insecure about php anyway. it securely failed the === "orly" test
mircea_popescu: to prove this : consider cheating wives. the dumb ones don't.
davout: then it has to be $validity = $wallet->validate($address)["isvalid"]
mircea_popescu: i can hear the collective multifacepalms of log reader ppl already.
davout: drop your equality test and keep the if
Apocalyptic: r3wt, the array returns crazy things
r3wt: the array returns a string?
pankkake: I remember once when I had to do a replace of '[]' by '{}', to fix the php json export
kakobrekla: dafuq you comparing a string then for
r3wt: yea i know the difference lol
r3wt: the adults are talking
mod6: things can be other things
mircea_popescu: i like the "probably more" part.
Apocalyptic: that's one of the beauties
r3wt: depending on if the address is valid or not
kakobrekla: is the array containing string "false" ??
r3wt: was the string false**
r3wt: i was asking if a string in an array was false within the original function, then i was asking if the function was a boolean
pankkake: mircea_popescu: it does. but it's just a module, there's no quick access operator
pankkake: and I suppose you can use it for replacements too. that's one of the things I miss in Python, direct regexp access
davout: mircea_popescu: the infamous "figure-it-out-yourself" operator
mircea_popescu: i like the >=< operator.
kakobrekla: benkay php is like real world, some are more equal than others.
mike_c: and the ever famous !==
davout: Apocalyptic: maybe it has the NOT_EXACTLY_SURE_WHAT_I_M_DOING operator
Apocalyptic: does LUA have the === operator ?
kakobrekla: yeah but you got the crow now
r3wt: HINT HINT: We rewrote the exchange in something special
mike_c: sorry, just had to get a php crack in there
davout: r3wt: if it parses the json it returns a hash, or a dictionary, whatever you call it in PHP, with the "isvalid" key pointing to a bool
benkay: pankkake: the same craaaaaazy equality operations?
r3wt: no it just returns the array.
mike_c: so you don't all think JD is just crapping money: ROI from july -> november = 0% all the gains have been since then.
davout: r3wt: looks to me like the JSON is simply parsed so you should end up with a bool from validateaddress, no.
pankkake: php has the same
davout: so drop the whole equality test and i assume it should work
r3wt: because it will return the trow anyway?
davout: r3wt: i know nothing of your code, but aren't you trying to test strict equality with a string when the value is a boolean?
r3wt: so probably something i just need to go back to the drawing board on, but i'm not really interested in working on the php version anymore. there is literally no point in doing so
r3wt: @dav, yeah probably something i overlooked. when i print the returned info its fine,b ut when i try to use if($row["isvalid"]) === "false") it fails
mircea_popescu: you mean the checksum ?
r3wt: @jurov: yes its logged, but only from the queue. if people wanna be clowns then they can pay the price
davout: some trust is also required for business, at least that the other the party will hold up to their part
r3wt: Apocalyptic: are they foreighn? alot of times foreign people put their username or wrong addresses on withdrawals and they just bounce back into their account
r3wt: jurov: you should never trust me in the first place.
mircea_popescu: yes. this would be the contracts part.
r3wt: there is no trust in business. only money and contracts
r3wt: only one withdrawals sitting on the books, and it can't be processed yet. waiting on doge.
mircea_popescu: its a tool to allow you (and us) to evaluate the credibility of agents.
mircea_popescu: r3wt https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110861.msg1227871#msg1227871 < there, it's explained.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask r3wt!add82c3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.216.44.61. Trust relationship from user jurov to user r3wt: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=jurov&dest=r3wt | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=r3wt | Rated since: never
r3wt: what is the WOT exactly? some type of bitcoin cult?
mircea_popescu: TomServo is that the maria ?
r3wt: i'm in the WOT now yes?
TomServo: WillTablet: it was a paste from the keybase.io page
davout: they're like vanity plates
mircea_popescu: perhaps a benign novelty of no use at the best.
r3wt: they've always been a thing for superfags
TomServo: r3wt: register and then ident, iirc
r3wt: hmm, i think i forgot the irc commands
gribble: Registration successful. You are now authenticated for user 'r3wt' with address 1337xmR8JRzwKonFgd17dhVo9NHQiP7875
gribble: (bcregister <nick> <bitcoinaddress>) -- Register your identity, associating bitcoin address key <bitcoinaddress> with <nick>. <bitcoinaddress> should be a standard-type bitcoin address, starting with 1. You will be given a random passphrase to sign with your address key, and submit to the bot with the 'bcverify' command. Your passphrase will expire in 10 minutes.
mircea_popescu: r3wt another thing you may consider is registering with nickserv. if your name is important to you.
pankkake: anyway, this gpg identity thing allows me to do what I've always wanted to do, a secure way to link profile together
punkman: pankkake: I don't like that part either
mircea_popescu: yeah, the idea is not interesting.
pankkake: punkman: well the idea is interesting, but seems to rely on their website. also node.js :(
gribble: (register <nick> <keyid>) -- Register your GPG identity, associating GPG key <keyid> with <nick>. <keyid> is a 16 digit key id, with or without the '0x' prefix. We look on servers listed in 'plugins.GPG.keyservers' config. You will be given a random passphrase to clearsign with your key, and submit to the bot with the 'verify' command. Your passphrase will expire in 10 minutes.
gribble: (register <nick> <keyid>) -- Register your GPG identity, associating GPG key <keyid> with <nick>. <keyid> is a 16 digit key id, with or without the '0x' prefix. We look on servers listed in 'plugins.GPG.keyservers' config. You will be given a random passphrase to clearsign with your key, and submit to the bot with the 'verify' command. Your passphrase will expire in 10 minutes.
gribble: yes I am gribble. why do you keep bothering me?
gribble: yes I am gribble. why do you keep bothering me?
benkay: on the first run this lead to an inversion of control, and eventually just crazy roll rates
benkay: they induce airflow in a helix around the body, which when it impacts the giant stablization foils at the bottom
benkay: anyways, it's required because you have these tiny little control surfaces that swivel around up at the top of the body
benkay: and the bearings themselves are actually pretty small - they're just races attached to the frame
benkay: tiny small control surfaces at the top
benkay: we reverse engineered that from other rockets controlled with canards
benkay: but its got some sweet mechanics too, you'll note that the fins spin independently of the rocket body
benkay: basically built by ee's as a flight platform for their electronics
benkay: i nominate portland state aerospace society for their open source rocketry work
mircea_popescu: the fact remains that whatever interests us is what matters in the world henceforth, and whatever interests whoever else, seven billion anon rats, is not worth a cigarette butt.
mircea_popescu: that's why godoshi has given us the concept of altcoins.
asciilifeform: and then we do physics, chemistry... ?
mircea_popescu: may be a good idea, tho i fear automated trust systems may be hijacked in the way kakobrekla describes.
mircea_popescu: gotta have disagreement and scream at each other to end up with a good prize.
mircea_popescu: i could see him on the nominees list.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's that retard someone was recommending buying puts on the stock indexes for 10 years, showing like -5% on his hedge funds lol
mircea_popescu: plus you're buddy-buddy with the entire fucking academy.
mircea_popescu: drop all the rest, do this or perish.
mircea_popescu: what's to keep them from it ? let the entire rest of the world learn what it has to do in the nwo.
mircea_popescu: because those are too busy giving the prize to retarded monkeys.
mircea_popescu: there's hundreds to pick from, and none of them EVER make it on the libertard-run nobel rolls
asciilifeform: is herr szabo in the wot?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "for outstanding contributions in the field of economics"
kakobrekla: given your confidence i could rob you of all your btc in that way if i gather > than you
mircea_popescu: i'll just deposit moar and fuck them ?
jurov: what if someone makes 51% attack and takes the pot?
kakobrekla: if anyone can vote to according to their btc deposit weight then we can end up with completely different game where mp always wins.
mircea_popescu: for their economics contributions.
mircea_popescu: so looking in the deep of the deepest of your soul!! and such, what would be the criteria one'd actually meet you'd respect
mircea_popescu: take obama, he's not rich because he melted down the peace gold medal, he's rich because he bleed dry a quarter billion idiots.
mircea_popescu: after all, someone winning the nobel prize for actual merit is already independently well paid anyway.
mircea_popescu: this is supposed to work so as to humble the nobel idiocy, not necessarily as to make the recipient rich.
mike_c: i don't! point being that the prize would be dwarfed by the recipients already worthy rewards from winning in the marketplace.
mircea_popescu: otherwise people get antsy
mike_c: wouldn't that recipient have already amassed quite a sum by doing whatever he won the prize for?
mircea_popescu: proportional to their contribution.
mircea_popescu: all we need is to agree on some gross criteria, then people construct a nominee list and all contributors vote on it
r3wt: but i'm not saying its not my fault because it sort of all falls on me in the end
mircea_popescu: we collect a pot by donation, whoever wants to contribute. then the pot is on a fixed date distributed to one recipient.
r3wt: other than Dogecoin everything is good
r3wt: Nothings wrong. i registered the llc and some of the staff didn't want to abide by the legal requirements and left. i've been afk, so withdrawals tend to pile up with no one to confirm them
asciilifeform: if people want to hand out prizes for whatever, nothing's stopping them?
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu i think you would have hard time finding the nominees
mircea_popescu: the #bitcoin-assets economic prize of economy ?
kakobrekla: you came to the right church.
mircea_popescu: gotta be in the wot.
r3wt: i was invited to join the WOT, i had never heard of it before now
gribble: The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
mircea_popescu: r3wt hi there.
r3wt: How do i join the WOT
mircea_popescu: In 1924, an American banker named Charles Dawes outlined what came to be known as the Dawes Plan a new reparations agreement under which U.S. banks such as J.P. Morgan issued bonds to private investors on behalf of Germany, which agreed to pay them back when the money became due. Dawes won the 1925 Nobel Peace Prize for his work on this plan. But when the first batch of bonds came due in 1928, Germany again default
mike_c: except we publish the logs. gotta fix that.
asciilifeform: what's the laffer curve for dekulakization anyway.