mircea_popescu: dignork listen here, if you're trying to not be caught cutting school, going to the bar across the street where kids cutting school go isn't your best bet.
dignork: mircea_popescu: even lame proxies/vpns provide SOME level of anonimity, the fact that they're obviously not absolute does not make them useless.
mircea_popescu: dignork i think the answer is contained in your question.
asciilifeform: just as every NYT turd is guaranteed to mention 'mtgox, the premier exchange,...' whenever it runs a piece on btc
mircea_popescu: who the fuck in his right mind would imagine that a) tor actually serves your anonimity or b) in order to anonimize you create accounts is beyond me.
mircea_popescu: mechanical rng, generally the states of sin.
mircea_popescu: thinking otherwise is right out of the book with the flat earth, the perpetuum mobile, the keynesian economics and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: there's no taint in bitcoin.
benkay: but this thwarts the scammer's desire to launder all their money without having any to begin with.
mircea_popescu: no, the word is d'oh.
nubbins`: okay, so the person sniffing traffic just watched me provide two addresses, A' and B', to bitbet
dignork: but they can be flatten on a series of bets, so ok, it can work
dignork: mircea_popescu: open bets as tumbler are not usable, since the fee, which contains odds change, is unpredictable
dignork: mircea_popescu: since bet is private, the bet itself is a link between A and B, the fact that bet was established over plaintext makes it not private in general.
asciilifeform: trivial exercise: pump bitcoin addrs through tor (exits), see what comes out on the other end.
mircea_popescu: and you might even catch the rabbit.
mircea_popescu: that shows you on the site where it thinks btc is going out.
asciilifeform: while, when bitbet replies, preserve the genuine addr (that user pasted) in the text.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the person can trivially verify this.
asciilifeform: so swap out the 'send winnings to' addr
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a barb here. bitbet addresses are rather consecutive if you've noticed.
asciilifeform: given that bitbet pumps out unsigned text, there are no sides here
nubbins`: this is the essence of dignork's issue
nubbins`: by the sniffer
mircea_popescu: what now, joejobbing the bitcoin network because we're idiots and we think we can make statements about things we don;'t understand ?
asciilifeform: sniffing and, if they wish, changing.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i'd tell you but i'm trying being polite ot the noobs.
Mallstromm: good for them
nubbins`: maybe i'm just being obtuse, but i'm not sure where the confusion is here
mircea_popescu: get in the wot, come back in a year, i might care. probably i won't, but anywya.
mircea_popescu: Mallstromm may i point out that the firm guarantees of nobody are worth nothing ?
MisterE: hah, people are selling off interest in their coins locked up in Cox
Mallstromm: dignork: I've used bitcoinfog many times. It works just fine. They've been in business for more than a year now. It's as safe as it gets. Just do not send hundreds of coins but a few dozens at a time
Mallstromm: dignork: well, if LE is sniffing your traffic that means they are physically VERY CLOSE to you... Thus you have much bigger problems
Apocalyptic: i'm pretty sure they are selectively scamming
mircea_popescu: How the service works
Mallstromm: what it's sure is that sending the "tainted" coins from address A to receive them back to address A is just retarded.
Mallstromm: if you want to tumble your coins, just send them to bitcoinfog.com and follow the procedure
nubbins`: Mallstromm, they took a break
Mallstromm: are you guys still discussing about the retarded "bitbet as a tumbler" issue?
dignork: mircea_popescu: I don't care if it's called tumbler, the idea is that person A sends funds to person B in untraceable way. Placing bet over public channel is not so untraceable.
nubbins`: "i am the solvent"
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder solvent in the sense of sniffing glue ?
pLambert: use bitbet as tumbler: put in small bet on winning side, put in large (to be laundered) bet on the losing side. Voila, instead of having stolen bitcoins you now have gambling winnings.
dignork: mircea_popescu: yep, I meant onion addr, the point is to encrypt the traffic, not identity of the player
asciilifeform: bitbet is perfectly accessible over tor. but exits can easily substitute in magic addrs instead of the supplied ones.
dignork: mircea_popescu: I meant it does not implement hidden service, or at least I couldn't find the interface
dignork: mircea_popescu, sorry I had to jump offline for a bit, back to the using bitbet as a tumbler, private bets do provide this function, but bitbet.us is not accessible over tor and does not work over https...
benkay: but those are the best bets!
pLambert: so, when MtGox goes away in a day or two, will the price on the other exchanges go back up to 1000?
mircea_popescu: the wonders of deflationary currencies.
benkay: us young guys - too young to get shitloads of dollars into btc at the right time, doomed to toil for the cryptolords forever.
gribble: Benjamin M. Lawsky - Department of Financial Services - New York ...: <http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/staff_bios/blawsky.htm>; Benjamin Lawsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Lawsky>; Ben Lawsky (BenLawsky) on Twitter: <https://twitter.com/BenLawsky>
benkay: and i *like* the place.
mircea_popescu: i think he may be trying for a job in the actual institutions
Bugpowder: I stopped the terrorists and created 2.5 million jobs with my bit license
mircea_popescu: JERRY: (sarcastically) Ya, then maybe baldness will catch on. This will all be turning your way.
ThickAsThieves: kinda surprised bitstamp price is hanging in there
mircea_popescu: course it could just as well go to 3983409583409853098 on the 1st
mircea_popescu: ya bitbet will make what, 1 btc there ?
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu: Morgan Housel @TMFHousel Critics: Mark Zuckerberg understands the value of social networks better than you do. That's why he's Mark Zuckerberg and you're a critic.
nubbins`: lovely responsive design there
kakobrekla: i dunno just got the link from bug :>
mircea_popescu: how many days are there.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lol they do payouts once a day ? suicide.
mircea_popescu: lol it'd be epic if they actually put a dice system in.
mircea_popescu: dignork so what if the address is posted ?
dignork: ThickAsThieves: yes, you can, but return address is posted in the betting transaction
benkay: dignork: bet wins are returned to the address of your choice - get it right.
dignork: ThickAsThieves, coins might be different, but bitbet is useless for hiding, bet wins are returned to the same address, or the one mentioned in initial transfer, so it's easy track
ThickAsThieves: they are just sent back to you, no?
ThickAsThieves: but the coins arent even cleaned
Mallstromm: maybe they were referring to Mircea's "milky-white chest"
benkay: mircea_popescu: referring to your link ibm/bitcoin poster and the failure of education
ThickAsThieves: Lawsky: Hard to put the genie back in the bottle. I can't predict the future but Bitcoin is certainly a new powerful technology that holds a lot of promise for the future if we can mitigate some of the potential negatives like money laundering.
ThickAsThieves: "Many bitcoin enthusiasts think that the widespread adoption of some form of cryptocurrency is an inevitability and that unfriendly governments such as China and Russia will ultimately be powerless to stop it. Do you share this view?"
kakobrekla: the gang is almost doubling every day
mircea_popescu: they emptied whatever was left and that's that.
ThickAsThieves: bug they were sending coins more than once
mircea_popescu: that's what the "malleability" bs was all about.
Bugpowder: but not the cold storage
ThickAsThieves: by then ATC will rule
Bugpowder: Any actual lawsuit shutdown payout will probably come up with a market valuation for the BTC and disburse assets accordingly
nubbins`: rather, it's going well, we're just not sure who it's going well for
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder might as well enjoy the trading.
Bugpowder: why not have 5x the value
Bugpowder: you aren't getting your dollars out either
mircea_popescu: what the fuck people ;/
mircea_popescu: i dunno how clearer than "we're only executing sell orders if they're over XXX arbitrary value" you can get.
mircea_popescu: but when you're done with the derp and are actually ready to look the proof over, try for instance https://twitter.com/krtek_net/status/436492419811405824
jcpham: not the razor!
ThickAsThieves: occam was never one to smack proof over the head
mircea_popescu: it usually fucks him in the ass, but he keeps a stiff upper buttlip and limps on.
mircea_popescu: that's ok, jcpham just has this insane british passion of arguing for the dead underdog.
jcpham: either masterful manipulation of throngs of users who expect insolvency
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 how exactly do you put the limit ?
mircea_popescu: but otherwise i suspect he means well.
mircea_popescu: tbh i kinda like the guy. i mean he looks uncomfortable as all hell and plenty clueless,
ThickAsThieves: "there is no evidence that money-launderers , South American Drug Barrons or international terrorist have , of have any intention of EVER using Bitcoin ( The transaction logs on the blockchain will render them traceable ) So they will stick with the good old fashioned Dollar ( latest estimates is that there is over 1.5trillion Dollars involved world-wide ) any comments Ben ?"
ThickAsThieves: well the first reply shows it
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves bad medium for that approach. i can afford it with noobs here cause they're stuck with me. amas tho...
ThickAsThieves: i did ask "Would you agree that money laundering is now impossible to stop due to inter-cryptocurrency exchanges and a global market outside of the US?"
mircea_popescu: pLambert so your theory is basically scamcomputerdesk ?
mircea_popescu: sarcasm is the highest form of internetwit.
mircea_popescu: isn't he uncomfortable there ?
nubbins`: his back must hurt all the time
mircea_popescu: desk too low, that thing actually looks like he's moved into his master's house as a junior slavegirl and they didn't have a spare room so he got the closet.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck does he have a gamebox
ThickAsThieves: lawsky AMA open for questions http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ygcil/as_requested_im_ben_lawsky_superintendent_of_the/
nubbins`: ran into the same issues as before, likely related to apple's bundling their own fork of LLVM
mircea_popescu: theres an automake or somesuch script i think
nubbins`: your post mentioned something about the source including instructions for building the client
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: not too crucial, but i don't think the new src actually does come with instructions
AndrewWhatsUpppp: especially if your whole country has adopted the IBAN standard
mircea_popescu: sepa is normally like that. provided, you know, the exchange actually sends it.
mjr_: whats new in the world?
kakobrekla: he did that the first time he installed bitcoind Bugpowder
mircea_popescu: you mean people don't have the god given right to send bitcoin to any address for any purpose they themselves established ?
Bugpowder: This is probably the first time Mark K has bitten off more than he could chew.
nubbins`: ** ATTENTION ** As per our terms of service, we only service Canadian Citizens. If you deposit BTC, you will **NOT** be able to withdraw them until you are level 1 Verified or higher. Failure to get level 1 verified or higher will result in the **FORFEITURE OF YOUR COINS**!!!
kakobrekla: THE COMPUTER SAYS NO
mike_c: BingoBoingo: last sale was to me, so you don't have *all* the orders on x-bt :)
pankkake: perhaps they didn't eat paleo
BingoBoingo: I'll be back. Imma try to sleep while the storm raid sirens are STFU.
BingoBoingo: lol, fair enough. Maybe it is 'Murica, but in my ancestry lives past 50 years of age seem to be... rather uncommon.
BingoBoingo: I'm not giving up, so he is going to have to learn to pay the piper.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, but he makes it clear he is the money slut. I just turned 28. Going off of the lifespoans of most of my close relatives I've only got 22 years left at most.
BingoBoingo: No one messed with him, that he will talk about when he isn't hammered enough to bring out the trauma.
BingoBoingo: As luck would have it for him he went into lockup as I fronted the local paper. He told the people in his pad "I know that dude"
mircea_popescu: obviously they wanted his sandwich
BingoBoingo: Oh, robbing banks, the only way to do it wrong has to be carrying a sadwich, taking the money and walking briskly.
mircea_popescu: pure and simple, they won't be even allowed to come near a place where someone's robbing a bank. because 300 hit at 3mn a piece is a billion, and nobody can afford to waste a billion to cover for whatever coupla million in bills you can possibly carry.
mircea_popescu: of course, you will likely die for it. so what ? hardly worth the menton this, if you think that a) you'll die anyway and b) once the police admin knows that sending the police means hundreds dead or wounded and if not sending the police means nothing they no longer have a choice.
mircea_popescu: the correct strategy, which is to say the perfect strategy, is to go rob a bank. if no police shows up, good. if they do, butcher the civillians. which is to say, all ofthem. no mercy, no hesitation, optimize the carnage as to extension.
CiPi: Apple has startet again to accept bitcoin apps, alot of markets accepting bitcoin...ATM`s open is USA with btc...why the price is not rising and is falling?
asciilifeform: ('meat puppets' in the english-speaking world?)
asciilifeform: they showed up on account of being biorobots.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one observing that their strategy was correct, in that the pensions and hi of the cops they shot make it unworthwhile for the cops to show up next time.
BingoBoingo: Wierdest thing I've known is the Yugo SKS. Soviet bullet, Nato grenade launcher
asciilifeform: the modern school of thought, i believe, is 'wound, don't kill, the enemy and tie up three men'
asciilifeform: they taught soldiers marksmanship in those days
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No, but... At least the Moissin-Nagant through the M-14 had the virtue of not being bored in squirrel caliber.
asciilifeform: what's funny is that the ussr slavishly copied the 'tiny bullet' school of thought in '74
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in most of the u.s. you can walk into a store and buy the damn thing and try it for yourself
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm just surprised the bore of an M16 is so small like a ruger plinking rifle.
BingoBoingo: So... I am fairly certain that in this channel I have made comments that limit the set of people who could be me to 1. But Meta-NSA is a myth.
asciilifeform: re: nsa chief: i wonder if the prosecutor knows that prosecutors 'could also have problems'
mircea_popescu: the point of training is that she's not awkward.
Mallstromm: well, you know, in some parts of the world taking a walk in the center of a city in top-less is quite awkward
Mallstromm: "if he gets the pussy"
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: WHat is wrong with a dude showing some chest if he gets the pussy?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Largest research reactor in the US
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Universities have done worse. When I was at Mizzou their research reactor had a security breach.
Mallstromm: LOOOOL Mircea, what about that picture on your Twitter account? The one in which you are wearing an open shirt, showing to the world your beautiful chest?
BingoBoingo: If the patient is plastered.
asciilifeform: it's from the 'sacrifices.'
asciilifeform: notice the dirt?
ozbot: University of Maryland computer security breach exposes 300,000 records - The Washington Post
mircea_popescu: they just added that lol.
ozbot: Damascus man charged in death his 3-year-old adopted son - The Washington Post
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so is the guy in custody ?
asciilifeform: i can't wait for the tabloids to 'nsa ufos!1!!'
mircea_popescu: sure. they're survival champs.
kakobrekla: i think id rather drink petrol
asciilifeform: from the circus: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562647/NSA-worker-beat-3-year-old-adopted-son-death-tells-police-hadnt-bonded-boy.html
Mallstromm: ThickAsThieves: i hope she's just speaking about food/beverages and not other kind of philias
ThickAsThieves: my wife thinks i prefer the most gross stuff
BingoBoingo: Grapefruit is healthy except for that part where it inhibits all of the good liver enzymes.
Mallstromm: I prefer the original "moscow mule" with only vodka and some drops of natural lime juice
Mallstromm: ThichkAsThieves: wonderful. Did you try the moscow mule with it? Fever-tree ginger beet + lime + vodka
Mallstromm: well, now we can stop joking :) sorry to interrupt you guys... But you was the one asking, Mircea
Mallstromm: still the official proxy of US three-letter-agencies in Eastern Europe
Mallstromm: yes, its the SECI thing
mircea_popescu: jesus what's with the constant rebranding.
mircea_popescu: o this is the seci thing
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: Are you elligible for the TS/SCI job fairs?
KRS-One: Ahh the ides of March. That is when we move.
Bugpowder: I wonder what the price will be when Krugman capitulates.
Bugpowder: we are going to need mainstream buy-in to support the next price level.
davout: yeah, which means it started going back up from there :-)
Bugpowder: We have seen the same pattern 3-4 times now
ThickAsThieves: well if all the traders with money agree, it will be so!
davout: i think end 2014 be like end 2014, beginning of the next bubble
BingoBoingo: If Goldman or JP Morgan wants to get in this sector I am their hebe.
davout: Bugpowder: what's the 2012-2013 paradigm?
Bugpowder: just keep thinking like the 2012-2013 paradigm will persist this year and next...
Bugpowder: Mallstromm: Why is an MSB license impractical. You are thinking that MtGox level dipshites are going to be running the serious exchanges from now on? Major VC money is moving into the space, and US people will have liquidity access within their brokerage account by EOY.
BingoBoingo: davout: All the better. My ancestors are Flemish
Mallstromm: davoutMallstromm: france and the netherlands had this retarded kid -> THAT MADE ME LOL :D
BingoBoingo: davout: I guess either I won the grandpa lottery or the civil service there is too fucked to follow the law.
equex: the us one
Mallstromm: davout: the fact is that if you ban 'murricans you avoid a lot of hassle
Mallstromm: davout: there's need to be a dual-citizenship treaty for that and not many countries have such treaties
davout: and i'm fucking born there :)
davout: Mallstromm: that makes no sense, the concept of a MSB exists only in the US, for the purpose of doing business with americans
Mallstromm: davout: anyone willing to run a SERIOUS exchange will probably have to ban most american customers unless they can get MSB license in ALL States. That's kinda unpractical
davout: Mallstromm: exactly, they charge you, that's all
davout: if so then you can't