wbaw: What if I bet after the bet has been satisfied, but before it is actually closed?
jurov: adn even if someone bets while it's still open, but the result happened
Duffer1: unless they changed it very recently, it's 100%
ThickAsThieves: they keep it
wbaw: they get a 1% tax
ThickAsThieves: do you know what happens when people bbet after the fact on bitbet?
wbaw: the customer service response i got to my email yesterday
wbaw: saying they don't host scammers, denying that bet fixing could be a problem...
wbaw: that's what they do
wbaw: yes, they catch scammers on betfair
gribble: Betfair Trader Scam - Please circulate - Bet Angel - Betfair sports ...: <http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2013/07/24/betfair-trader-scam/>; Gambler who called himself the Betfair king conned friends out of ...: <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313618/Gambler-called-Betfair-king-conned-friends-600-000-bogus-betting-scam.html>; Betfair Casino - The Tale of Betfair's (1 more message)
Duffer1: and they accept bitcoin?
wbaw: and they always pay out
Duffer1: everyone else will just tell you what you want to hear right up until they run with your $$
Duffer1: perhaps you haven't been around long wbaw but if i was a gambler Bitbet would be the only site I'd trust to do what they say, no more no less
wbaw: i'm used to better service, rather than being insulted by staff
wbaw: they know not to come back after that
ThickAsThieves: and they demand to be customer that is always right and able to take all business away
wbaw: they have lots of big competitors but they think they're different because it's magical internet money so customer service doesn't count
ThickAsThieves: the best part about these bitbet naysaying interlopers is that it's always for like $50 bets
wbaw: there are quite a few
wbaw: every other
wbaw: every bookmaker closes bets when the event is over
ThickAsThieves: unless it breaks their contract
wbaw: then again when i remembered never to use it again & recommend against it
ThickAsThieves: on their terms
ThickAsThieves: their only obligation is to fill it
wbaw: when i became a customer & paid them money
ThickAsThieves: and when did they ask for your opinion
wbaw: no other bookmaker that has lasted has done that
ThickAsThieves: they arent
ThickAsThieves: well i just woke up and everything was the way it should be!
wbaw: responses from customer support shouldn't be so rude & arrogant either
ThickAsThieves: wbaw, how could you possibly expect the diversity of bets at BitBet and immediate resolution on all of them?
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> uh what happened to this thing /// there's a frenzy over AM solving more blocks than usual (sell Neo! Buy AM!) and the Neo bid book didnt fill much behind the rally
wbaw: other gamblers will just go elsewhere quietly
wbaw: i'm not worried about anything cazalla, just explaining why it's my first & will be my only bet on the site
cazalla: so what are you worried about then
cazalla: wbaw: you should be more given the outcome is known, that will fix your problems
mircea_popescu: wbaw thjat's besides the point. i being already comparably big, your argument fails
Duffer1: following for the lawls
Apocalyptic: I thought you were referencing the credit-rating claim
mircea_popescu: wbaw what's the mkt cap of this williams thing ?
MisterE: lol Apocalyptic that's almost as bad as letting the 2 companies with the worst customer satisfaction numbers in the US merge :D
wbaw: mircea_popescu, this is why you'll never be big like they are
wbaw: so it's all different because of the currency?
wbaw: mircea_popescu, they were here first
mircea_popescu: wbaw how can they ?
wbaw: and how they do business
Apocalyptic: "<maz0> Teikoku Data Bank, Japans largest and most respected credit-rating agency, in July of last year reviewed the company and gave it a D4, the worst possible rating a company can receive on their scale. One of the reasons for the low rating was the lack of qualified accounting staff at the company." mircea is there any truth to that N
mircea_popescu: her clothes are now gone
mircea_popescu: the lyf and tymes.
Apocalyptic: <ATH5> "There was a weakness in the system, and the bitcoins disappeared" << Karpeles live
cazalla: wbaw, why not use it to your advantage and bet on some props where the outcome is already known?
mircea_popescu: wbaw ideally people bet on things they know.
cazalla: ask snackman, he knows the answer to that one wbaw
mircea_popescu: these are the three ends of the triangle : how much it costs, how secure it is, how fast it goes.
mircea_popescu: but you're in no way at risk. if people bet after the fact hey just get charged a small fine
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin suddenly opened the gate. It is a poisonous offering. You are grossly unequipped to interact straight with the refuse of Western society. Accepting investors with fortunes under a million dollars or whatever the limit was placed for US citizens may make sense. Accepting investors with fortunes under any arbitrary value and simultaneously wits under any arbitrary threshold is not a sound business plan but a stra
mircea_popescu: ver theyre called now, non-lethal something or the other) to correctly handle them. They have the chemicals, theyve done the research, know the behavioural patterns, have the walls all built to obstruct vision, living arrangements all thought through and everything.
mircea_popescu: Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations competent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or whate
mircea_popescu: bah i can't believe i gave out the wrong link
mircea_popescu: i actually am not competing with huge companies for the favours of you.
chetty: Seriously whats the rush? Not like you can get interest on BTC
wbaw: for the context of that bet?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile : A talking parrot has helped Indian police crack an intriguing murder mystery and led the cops to arrest the killer.
mircea_popescu: someone betting after the event is known seems something.
wbaw: you really shouldn't still be accepting bets, it's just to take fees for nothing or skew the odds
mircea_popescu: yeah but once you'll graduate to restaurants you'll maybe notice you order and then wait
wbaw: when i pay for a burger at mcdonalds they usually give me one
mircea_popescu: huge companies they are everywhere, but still, much in the way mcdonalds is a huge company :
mircea_popescu: where the cash checking and pond shops are
mircea_popescu: generally all those i've seen are dingy affairs in the poor parts of town,
wbaw: there are 5 or 6 within a short walk, but i think william hill is the only one that takes random bets like this
mircea_popescu: but that may be farther away.
wbaw: then i go to a shop with more staff
mircea_popescu: and what if there's a queue ?
wbaw: then i get my payout a few minutes later
wbaw: when the result is known
wbaw: and they pay out
wbaw: i go to the shop
wbaw: then when it wins i claim my payout in cash
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 that's basically why people need lawyers for. average joe can't possibly summon all the needed gall for even trivial legal proceedings
Duffer1: i know, i'm just shocked at the gall
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 not really in their interest to include everything.
Duffer1: they're only claiming 64m in liabilities?
wbaw: how official does it need to be if their company lawyer announcing it outside a court isn't enough?
wbaw: and he has a shop around the corner from me
mircea_popescu: there are very many reputable bookmakers in btc outside of bitbet.
wbaw: at least its a warning not to use the site again & stick with reputable bookmakers
wbaw: the bet hasn't
mircea_popescu: hey did they close it yet ?
wbaw: it's an hour since the announcement
wbaw: and not let people bet after the outcome is known
mircea_popescu: wbaw you know they'll refund bets that are late anyway
mircea_popescu: this is now the revolving window of finance and government.
wbaw: jurov, could you bet on a football match after the result is known?
wbaw: TOKYO—A lawyer for Mt. Gox announced at a news conference at the Tokyo District Court that the embattled bitcoin exchange was filing for bankruptcy protection and that Mt. Gox had outstanding debt of about ¥6.5 billion ($63.6 million).
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic for instance the bitcoinica executors, couldn't care less about the btc.
jurov: Listing BTC that are left on the papers and trying to pay them out would be Karpeles goodwill attempt, nothing more.
jurov: Apocalyptic: why irrelevant? bankruptcy law applies only to fiat, it says nothing about BTC. Attempts to shoehorn BTC in there can be disastrous.
Apocalyptic: <jurov> and even if, what is the fair btc price here? // hard to find a definitive answer here, but you can still can pick a reasonable one
jurov: yes, put the link into bitbet comment
wbaw: that seems to satisfy the bet?
wbaw: their lawyer just made an announcement
kakobrekla: mods close the bets when it needs to be, you can leave them a message on bitbet comments
wbaw: so is the bet closed or what?
jurov: and even if, what is the fair btc price here?
Apocalyptic: jurov, isn't there ?
wao-ender: and ddos was yday on their twitter
HeySteve2: ok I will look for it then
HeySteve2: mircea_popescu, please private me regarding the news if I don't respond here
mircea_popescu: word of warning to the news people following : it's gonna be pretty massive.
mircea_popescu: so i'm hammering out the mpoe announcement for this month.
ozbot: This is the story of your loss.
anddam: math is ideal, at least the one that was taught to me
mircea_popescu: i suppose the concept here is that math will have to suit the task, not the othjer way around
davout: anddam: "does anyone know about some spreadhseet software that uses decimals instead of floats?" <<< hence the question :D
benkay`: if you look sideways at the TATINVESTMENTS logo you can see a WTF
mircea_popescu: https://bitcoinity.org/markets?theme=light seems fine.
FabianB: btcoincharts is probably the only one that works without js
mircea_popescu: there you go
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: it's only 2014, what's the rush.
mircea_popescu: what is everyone's favourite bitcoin charting service these days ?
mircea_popescu: scams don't go away anymore, they just age and reemerge, goat style.
mircea_popescu: "Great job on the Bitblu website. It looks awesome, even in beta!! Can't wait to try it out "
mircea_popescu: i mean the blu thing
mircea_popescu: i don't mean the newest scamcoin, i get it, Reggie Middleton is a random noob who figures that he's special and doesn't need to first spend his six months reading here.
benkay`: http://ultra-coin.com/index.php/homes/item/8-bitcoin-2-0-aka-ultra-coin-bitcoin-s-derivative-layer-that-allows-the-virtual-to-control-real-things-featured
chetty: <mircea_popescu> "i shouldn't still be a virgin, kinda the point of bitcoin!! <<<< it isn't?????
mircea_popescu: "i shouldn't still be a virgin, kinda the point of bitcoin!!1"
mircea_popescu: dude how is it that everyone takes it for granted they personally know what "the point of Bitcoin" is
mircea_popescu: now how the hell does this work, entropy cheese ?
mircea_popescu: "When using only an HD wallet design, you can regenerate the wallet (and all of the addresses) at any time using a seed which can be presented as a mnemonic string of words, without reducing the amount of entrophy like brain wallets do."
mircea_popescu: benkay re the assass feed : trilema has a 15 minute rss delay built in for that very reason. maybe you should implement something like it.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell greenspan_fan i actually shot the last psych guy an email. figured he'd prolly like to know :p
mircea_popescu: then in oct "well... we're out of the game nao. was nice being part of it all blablabla"
mircea_popescu: so far this is starting to feel like pirate all over again. in may "but mp! how can you irresponsibly let the pr chick say mean things about this important biznis for bitcoin, we know shit. we're twelve after all!"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo : perhaps a good alternative is to buy a chinese and a usg and use them in paralel.
mircea_popescu: and then she gets pregnant/catches the clap/gets dumped and her mom is like lolz and she's like "o mom, just because you were right ONCE IN YOUR LYFF!!!
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
mircea_popescu: people have this amazing facility, guy goes out with girl, its their first time, it feels like the first time. kids have been fucking for a while now, it's anything but novel in any sense.
Apocalyptic: "Naivety multiplied by greed made the existence of such investment schemes possible in Slovakia" // like it's any different in any other ponzi
mircea_popescu: add some overflow control there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is foolish to consider diddled cpus without having a picture of the actual possibilities in mind. <<< now how does this follow ?!
Luke-Jr: the only way to know MtGox was going down like this, is if you had evidence, or you were behind it
mircea_popescu: if we had the luxury of discarding anything of reality that doesn't conveniently fit with our theoreitcal system, we wouldn't for instance be stuckl with quantum mechanics.
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: did *you* steal the bitcoins?
mircea_popescu: yeah well, see, that's a broken implication there.
Luke-Jr: if I knew it, then I must have listened to you say it.
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to listen to it. there's a fucking difference.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of things you didn't know. but the fact that i said mtgox is going down, you knew.
mircea_popescu: decimation: So apparently MP thinks the whole thing was an insider scam run mostly be Vessenes. << if by "thing" you mean "Bitcoin Foundation", then yes.
mircea_popescu: you know that's possibly the least efficient way to buy sex, do you
KRS-One: I get out quite often when I'm not working as much too.. I like the bachelor's life.
KRS-One: I go to the strip club once a week. You would be suprised what you can get there being a regular.
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> like the russki MMM, or romania's caritas (or later fni), or albania's rebellion of 1997 ? // we had this BMG Invest in Slovakia
mircea_popescu: gee whiz, look at all the people i want to talk to, and i have barely just woken up.
mircea_popescu: the20year2 what of me ?
mircea_popescu: like the russki MMM, or romania's caritas (or later fni), or albania's rebellion of 1997 ?
mircea_popescu: diametric: the latest trend is that Mark is under a gag order << you happen to be familiar with the trials and tribulations of the public opinion during any of the large eastern european ponzi collapses ?
mircea_popescu: isn;t this the guy who didn't have the time to either a) get with the program or b) read the indicated article detailing the unsuccessful attempts of the last nitwit who thought he's too good to do what he's told on the grounds of well... he's special ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: the guy doesnt know they squated it themselves < clearly there's no relation between jesse and the gang.
bloctoc_: is there a way to verify mpex has possession of coins?
bloctoc_: I don't know but it's in the bitcoin-assets archives a couple of days after the transaction
BingoBoingo: The puts were sold to MPOE at what price?
bloctoc_: I've been looking at the price, seems good but one would have to sell bitbet to do such a thing
BingoBoingo: bloctoc_: Looks like MPOE is in the money
hax0r42: how the hell did AM1 go up so much in 1 day?
KRS-One: i would take the girl on the right, but i like blondes...the girl on the left has a fat pussy
KRS-One: if you zoom in real close on the pubes of the girls in that pic you can get a good crotch shot
benkay: no no there is a thing as too soon
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: please do not slander me; there is a person by that name present
asciilifeform: but i really wish people had some actual picture in their head of what it means to distrust a hardware vendor
asciilifeform: this is an actual subject and i cannot hope to make it fit into these sound bites
asciilifeform: and likewise for one which is thought to receive (so long as the cage is in place, and likewise supply and ground rails are filtered)
asciilifeform: continuing: for instance, a chip that enthusiastically pisses bits to the power rail is perfectly usable if it never gets to share its power rail with anything
dignork: asciilifeform: is there any way to grep/search in log.bitcoin-assets.com ? I mean like a month range. I can hack together some crawler, but maybe there is on already.
BitcoinKike: I have a leak to the powerline.
asciilifeform: e.g. what, exactly, does the enemy get if he can execute an arbitrary instruction instead of the next coming one, at a given time
asciilifeform: at the risk of repeating, anyone concerned with boobytrapped hardware should actually take the time to think about /what it could actually do/ in their scenario
BitcoinKike: copumpkin: Why would I oppose the wrong kinds of fascism?
asciilifeform: i doubt that you will like the answer.
dignork: asciilifeform: there was another approach at working with unsecure hardware, maybe it was mentioned here before: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EncryptedComputationEdited
asciilifeform: *through the noise of
asciilifeform: your cpu can be heard through the neighbourhood tvs just fine.
BingoBoingo: The way to appear clean though is to cage the important machines and subcribe to Cable's sports package and have a lot of CRT TV's
asciilifeform: where the sound chip had a noise diode built in
asciilifeform: afaik none of the '80s micros included a reasonably useful entropy source, with the possible exception of the 'commodore-64'
asciilifeform: semiconductor is not magic, isn't cursed, one can form reasonable hypothesis about enemy action.
asciilifeform: just that you should understand the implications.
BingoBoingo: OMG Luke-Jr endorsed the MPEx model "<Luke-Jr> the last 2-3 years have demonstrated that people get scammed far more often on decentralised exchanges"
asciilifeform: it does not follow that nothing interesting can be done to the unsuspecting buyer
asciilifeform: i had the T1 running on a board around here somewhere. it works.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: just describing some of the very different varieties of trap that can be set for a chip buyer
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I mean SPARC T1 cores are open source. Unless lisp machine I see little reason to not them.
asciilifeform: on the other hand, the 'listens for magic packet on radio, using power rail as antenna, and shorts power rail to ground when received' can be fit into any ic
asciilifeform: (fpga has no idea where the 'cache' will be on the fabric, or even that it will be configured as cpu rather than, say, decompressor)
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Do other people try to daytrade on web though.
asciilifeform: it is quite true that you cannot put this kind of trap in an fpga without making the whole thing look quite ridiculous even under an optical microscope.
asciilifeform: so, for instance, chinese cpu waits for the phrase 'tiananmen satoshi goatfuck' and shorts power rail to ground if this appears in the cache.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is foolish to consider diddled cpus without having a picture of the actual possibilities in mind.
Apocalyptic: by "it" you mean the API ?
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Every now and then t reverts to displaying stats from days earlier. Hard to describe
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Of late your exchange hasn't exactly been reliable either
BingoBoingo: Seriously how many "BTC Olds" were in the gox fold
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I imagine don't buy CPUs, but buy understood FPGAs and force them into an acceptable image
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I imagine most arm licensees practically throw away the ARM cores they paid for licenses to fab
asciilifeform: one can try to play 'whack-a-mole' (playing as the mole) with the customs, and some people do.
asciilifeform: a photo will be added to the handy binder customs officials keep
asciilifeform: but as soon as the western rights holders complain