mircea_popescu: from value, Berkshire might well be priced similarly.) The key to
mircea_popescu: companies are generally selling in the market at large discounts
mircea_popescu: The assumption behind this question usually appears to be that a
mircea_popescu: it's unlikely to buck the us emigration trend, but who knows.
mircea_popescu: but that's at least part of why the "someone will actually manage to spring up somewhere to allow us to trade in confidence" part is in the last mpoe statement.
dexX7: the second market/circle guys afaik
mircea_popescu: the 401k is b*i type.
mircea_popescu: that's why they'll gladly give you "401k" in exchange for your paycheck.
mircea_popescu: the system is desperate to acquire as much as possible of the real portion of the monetary base.
mircea_popescu: mike_c put that in perspective. the bezzle is the bezzle. people who are authorised to handle the imaginary portion of the monetary base may do X Y Z types of things. people who are not, however, may not.
mircea_popescu: anyway, no, we're not there yet. currently the sec is trying to get its shit together to be able to cooperate with mp.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 aren;t you in the us ?
dexX7: here is a general warning: mp cooperates with the sec, so be careful what you tell here
mike_c: what. the. fuck. "all ur assets belong to us". and now they have to *prove* their innocence?
mircea_popescu: so you know, where's the list of washington, dc people who bought tsla pre-release.
mircea_popescu: here are the companies the government supports, here are the people it doesn't support, "rule of law" stuff.
mircea_popescu: so what i want to know is, how many accounts that traded on the pre-gaap release were frozen by the sexc
mircea_popescu: that's the link
mircea_popescu: but look here : some people bought options, in switzerland. they had their accounts frozen and they were required to... prove!!! they didn't trade on insider info.
mircea_popescu: cause they were too busy confiscating the money of traders who had bought options on berkshire
mircea_popescu: and the sec never investigated
the20year2: Although in the case of tesla, they issued the non-gaap a few hours before gaap and gained an extra $50/share
the20year2: an0 looks pretty simple, and my idea was to publish something non-gaap anyways since i don't think we can count bitcoin in that, and we'll always have btc balances onhand, so I planned on issuing non-gaap reports at the same time the gaap ones were done (TSLA does that)
mircea_popescu: but by all means, try the experiment
mircea_popescu: 10x the effort, hardly any extra benefit delivered
mircea_popescu: the20year2 i'll bet you you'll be giving up on the gaap style within 12 reporting periods
nubbins`: "sorry my break isn't for another half hour"
mircea_popescu: the blowjob you might get
nubbins`: for all the good it does
joecool: nubbins`: i've tested this theory, writing various things like "I STOLE THIS CARD" on the signature pad
nubbins`: pays for item in store, cashier looks at back, says "heh" and swipes the card
joecool: true heh, in canada i use magstripe and it throws off all the clerks
nubbins`: a friend of mine had "PLEASE ASK FOR PHOTO ID" on the signature panel of his credit card some years ago
nubbins`: even places that use chip-and-pin will fallback to magstripe if there's a problem with the chip
joecool: oh sure yeah if you pull the old paypal-style MITM that's burned so many people in OTC
joecool: ie. if i walk into a store with a stolen magstripe you don't know i have, i can purchase goods and even if there's a chargeback, it only claws back from the store those goods were bought at
mircea_popescu: not what i meant. what i meant was, fraudster sells the merchandise to ignorant buyer, gets irreversible payment from him
joecool: mircea_popescu: skimmers are a bigger threat if you can duplicate the magstripe, but most non-US countries figured that out and went chip and pin
thestringpuller: but I don't think the proxy decrypts trades just announces
thestringpuller: i was talking more about an attacker getting access to mpex key via the proxy
mircea_popescu: joecool they do triangles.
joecool: thestringpuller: that would depend on whether the attacker actually received goods, if they ran a merchant account they'd have the money clawed back
thestringpuller: yea but the attacker wouldn't have profited directly on stealing people's money, mpex key is still guarded by naked lady ninja assassins
mircea_popescu: the fact you can reverse it doesn't mean it didn't fail thjo
joecool: mircea_popescu: not like a CC carries any sort of personal info other than name and address which are often already public record
joecool: mircea_popescu: it's fairly easily reversible, just claim the charges were fraud
joecool: mircea_popescu: cc over the phone is less bad in my opinion
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it got caught pretty quick.
mircea_popescu: it's about as bad as "cc over the phone"
mircea_popescu: they need to cease this id-by-email bs.
thestringpuller: someone would have just manipulated the mpex trades
joecool: and even if the domain was with a US registrar it usually takes a month or two to go through the processes to get it back
joecool: i've seen more than a few domains get jacked from social engineering, the best are ones that clone the site, set up shop somewhere without many laws (romania?), then monetize the stolen site
mike_c: i take that to mean they aren' very successful
mircea_popescu: whereas small players will have to retain the help of an investment banker, in which case they get auditing as a packaged deal anyway
mircea_popescu: the20year2 this dovetails nicely into your earlier curiosities re listing on mpex w/o an account. itstands to reason that large financial institutions that have their own account can keep their accounting straight ;
joecool: consequences will never be the same
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is about the conseuqences of having lied.
nubbins`: the correct question is "how is lying identified"
mircea_popescu: the20year2 bitcoin is not about preventing anyone from lying.
the20year2: So, what prevents the organization from lying?
mircea_popescu: that's generally the way it goes, yes.
artifexd: mp, an0 == http://trilema.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/ ?
mircea_popescu: there aren't such organisations yet.
mircea_popescu: nobody cares what the scammers do.
mircea_popescu: an0 is accepted by the exchange doing 90%+ of all bitcoin financials.
the20year2: It's accepted by a country with a 17t economy plus other economies resulting over 25t of gdp
mircea_popescu: what's so special about the gaap ?
mircea_popescu: that it's the bitcoin standard.
mircea_popescu: the who ?
dexX7: since when does create the foundation standards?
the20year2: When did the bitcoin foundation approve an0?
the20year2: Are there any bitcoin businesses that are using GAAP-approved accounting?
dexX7: "the ugly who became a writer instead of cum sucking slut"?
ozbot: The peeconomy pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
benkay: ipo it to the moon
dexX7: hey guise what do you think about a blockchain postcard service? users submit a message which is then posted via op_return. i bet some devs would love the idea! :D
mircea_popescu: there's no taper.
benkay: when does the taper even kick in?
mike_c: what the hell is an air pot?
benkay: why can nobody do anything for themselves?
benkay: so what is to be done but put the empty one on the counter and pop the cherry on the new one
benkay: this morning at the café, some nice lady is standing next to the air pot, idling, hoping for attention
dexX7: i have no idea how it works under the hood
wao-ender: v0v, i'm there! so social
Apocalyptic: it's not like they can enforce anything at this point
Apocalyptic: <dexX7> somewhere in the reddit comments they said there will be some kind of authentification // well if someone regged the u/* entry i wonder how can they claim it back
mircea_popescu: meh there's in principle 5k "services" like that and no barrier to entry
dexX7: somewhere in the reddit comments they said there will be some kind of authentification. like: you claim you are mp and insert his twitter handle, but to proof it, you'd need to post a verification tweet
wao-ender: i'm totally supporting them
dexX7: the forum is gettinmg 502 for more than a month now from time to time :S
deadweasel: DrGregMullface was so funny that I'm now getting 502 for the forums.
mircea_popescu: maybe they should hire sony
mircea_popescu: "Line to GET IN the security line is wrapped around the check-in area of the Austin airport. "
mike_c: i wish there were a one stop shop where i could find a veterinarian, a therapist, and a hedge fund manager.
mircea_popescu: no because chicks with college debt and no prospects keep adding it to their blogs
thestringpuller: i thought by now it went the way of geocities
mircea_popescu: web is slowly dieing the death of a thousand idiots.
mike_c: cloudflare is breaking the internet one stupid site at a time.
diametric: mike_c: you'll note that to deploy that successfully, and not make the browser shit red warnings everywhere, you'll need a forged cert.
Neil: I worked there once.
mircea_popescu: god forbid i ever get cancer, the doctors will have a fucking handful with me
mircea_popescu: either it solves the problem and then i buy it, or else it does not and then i do not buy it.
mircea_popescu: anyway : all it takes for stupid "solutions" to take over the world is for people who know better to use them anwyay.
Neil: mircea_popescu: Visit kako, place the bet in person over a beer of course
mike_c: it's closer to the server, harder to get mitm'd
mircea_popescu: or if the gy is really evil and it does show, it won't show as per your txid
mircea_popescu: if you were mitm'd either it doesn't show
diametric: Hell, you could even implement the proper gambling and make people think they're just losing all the time.
mircea_popescu: not that anyone'll bother checking anyway
diametric: Satoshi dice would be very easy to attack since it's blocked in the US, which causes most US visitors to use TOR, which is easy to MITM especially since Satoshi Dice doesn't use https.
Neil: mircea_popescu: So you have no intention of improving the address thing, even if it starts to be taken advantage of?
mircea_popescu: on a naked system like bitbet people know what the risks are
mircea_popescu: diametric arguable, because false reliance would sweeten the pot.
diametric: yeah the effort required would make it not really worth it.
mircea_popescu: Neil what, i'm not telling them to be mitm'd.
Neil: You have a point for the bigger bets. But hardly ideal. Why expose your users?
Neil: I wonder how long until a bitbet user suffers a MITM attack on the send-to address display
mircea_popescu: nah, there was a 2k pool one when btc was 1.2k
Neil: If BTC > $10k resolves as yes it'll be the biggest fiat bet yet
mircea_popescu: it only matters whst the pool is at end
Neil: mike_c: Also the odds on both sides are somewhat random; it's not as if you can fix them given subsequent bettors
Neil: Perhaps my judgment of the odds is off.
Neil: Yes, to some extent the other side will come in to make up the odds (witness the recent CME bets) but there's still some friction. The large CME bets were ballsy and I guess should be worse than evens but an equal amount to the opening bet hasn't come in yet.
mircea_popescu: but i meant specifically the guy's concern re calculating final odds
mircea_popescu: in that it's quite safe to go "i bet x btc on this and expect the other side to work out the odds"
Neil: The sky-high BTC price bets are always interesting psychologically
mircea_popescu: so that prevents them from betting (like say http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/#c2574 )
mircea_popescu: Neil tbh it always was pretty well arbed, in the sense that i occasionally try taking one side and i have yet to come to a situation where i wasn't covered properly by the other side
ThickAsThieves: they act like everything is so absolute
ThickAsThieves: and the law?
ThickAsThieves: "Purchases can be refunded, but that depends solely on the willingness of the establishment to do so."
ThickAsThieves: that's really the extent of that comment too
Neil: mircea_popescu: Great. I'd have thought (apart from signatures) the site it automated, including transaction generation. I guess someone corrected it?
mircea_popescu: noobs being noobs are too stupid to beeline for the generators and feed th hunger of the uberrich privileged maxlvl players
mircea_popescu: however to rank it up you need noob materials, which stressed the ufck out of the market.
mircea_popescu: sooo... the rift people added a new profession, which is cool.
mike_c: you gotta upgrade to get the suck
mircea_popescu: like say, the tv. anyone even in kenya can get a tv.
mircea_popescu: the ease of access is totally not a tool of privilege.
bitcoinpete: and they keep going...
bitcoinpete: "Bitcoin cannot possibly be limited to only the privileged as anyone (even people in Kenya) can gain access to it through standard cell phones, a tool which the developing world has increasing access to."
mircea_popescu: they're beyond clueless.
bitcoinpete: "If we really want perspective on privilege, the global implications of an easy to use payment system must be taken into account for its efficiency in providing aid directly to people all over the world—especially disadvantaged women, many of which must raise families on low resources while their partner finds work in more economically healthy areas."
bitcoinpete: "You would have to be living under a rock feasting solely on anti-Bitcoin propaganda to think that Bitcoin is only about making money and oppressing the lesser privileged."
bitcoinpete: and there's more. it's fuckin privilege day
mircea_popescu: that's the point of fucking bitcoin : to put privilege above the reach of the unprivileged.
nubbins`: one of the nice things about privilege is that you don't need to be aware of it
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is like distilled privilege what the fuck is she on about.
bitcoinpete: "t’s not essential, or possible, that the privilege crowd fully understand bitcoin or that the bitcoin crowd fully understand privilege. What would be very helpful, however, is for both parties to admit the vast sums which comprise what they do not know."
bitcoinpete: "Bitcoin enthusiasts don’t generally spend any time thinking about privilege. But greater computer literacy among the poor and easier-to-use interfaces, along with addressing tech’s gender problems should be a goal we all strive toward."
ozbot: Meet the Gay Black Republican Selling Guns Online for Bitcoin
bitcoinpete: conan was only indicative of where the middle is, or isn't
ThickAsThieves: "The discontentment is also there when he talks about the first time he was arrested, at 18"
ThickAsThieves: “The U.S. is making it extremely difficult for me to stop being American.”
ThickAsThieves: "Satoshi Nakamoto — who, it turns out, is an elderly Japanese man by the same name, "
ThickAsThieves: "I have sworn not to write the name of the island where Roger Ver is currently residing, the reason being that he fears for his life."
ThickAsThieves: http://www.salon.com/2014/03/09/the_ballad_of_bitcoin_jesus_the_tech_millionaire_evangelist_who_fears_for_his_life/
ThickAsThieves: yeah the coco thing isnt funny
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: the dissolution begins
Diablo-D3: who the fuck is markus ortman
ozbot: Georgia Becomes First State in History to Pass the Convention of States Application | Convention of
mircea_popescu: Georgia Becomes First State in History to Pass the Convention of States Application
ninjashogun: The main reason I ask here is because it is people who are technical (almost by definition), have early vision and interest (almost by definition) and in many cases have enough funds that they can consider helping me on such a basis. Some people ahve been interested but the amount is too larger for them, I understand but that is nto the kind of person I'm lookiing for.
ninjashogun: So, it was not people, it was one person, and he didn't leave but continues to express 'definite' interest (we've prepared loan paperwork, etc). I!ve pressed several times for a firm closure and he's repeated definite interest (instead of taking the chance to say, look, it's not that interesting to him)
ThickAsThieves: why did the last people leave?
ninjashogun: I am looking for something similar to what I found before, which is someone who is interested in exploring the idea with me and would do so without necessarily having any big personal interest in it, other than obviously not losing money on it.
nubbins`: and you try to argue that it's in their best interest to do so
nubbins`: people tell you precisely why they will never, ever give you money
ninjashogun: nubbins`, but nubbins doesn't mean anything to me either.
nubbins`: it's the fact that YOU are saying it
ninjashogun: (those are just two examples of the tech I've used.)
ninjashogun: nubbins`, that's not true. I guarantee 100% that there are people int his channel who know what vision algorithms are, and what electronics engineering and embedded programmigng are. 100% guaranteed.
nubbins`: bitcoin is littered with the corpses of people who had better ideas and more resources than you
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user nubbins` to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=nubbins%60&dest=ninjashogun | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun | Rated since: never
ninjashogun: nubbins` - fair enough. I've personally developed the proof of concept using vision software as well as embedded electronics with an arduino
ninjashogun: it's the same thing - something marketable that needs something up-front. You can't just ask people to speculate, you should extend the possibility of a loan to cover information asymmetry and personal responsibiilty. I wouldn't be gamblign with otehr people's money
nubbins`: TBH i don't think they should give loans for degrees/diplomas in navel gazing
nubbins`: hope the photography "course" was worth it ;p
chetty_: hahahaha:The municipal bond rating for Peoria has been downgraded
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu would appear to be right, none of the traditional 'bubbling of rebellion' is happening, as far as i can see
asciilifeform: or at least service the fellow who does
mircea_popescu: perhaps it'd cost more to learn than they're worth.
asciilifeform: perhaps they could learn.
mircea_popescu: these people can't even say nigger.
asciilifeform: how do you know they will << hey don't look at me, i'm not their lenin. naturally i don't know. but historical parallels.
mircea_popescu: no, they're disintegrating lepers.
mircea_popescu: how do you know they will ?
asciilifeform: these folks aren't disintegrating lepers, they're able-bodied creatures who could in principle create actual problems if they felt like it.
asciilifeform: at some point the lost souls will add up to a destructive mess, the question is when.
asciilifeform: (for the nitpickers, notice that i said 'profit!1!!1', not 'profit.')
asciilifeform: mass in the physical sense, perhaps
mircea_popescu: gimme the seattle bladers association
mircea_popescu: i'd love nothing more than contact with a large club of street people, but these muppets ain't it.
ThickAsThieves: BitPremier is one of the logos
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's tons of these outfits consisting of basically one guy and his adobe illustrator pretending to be in some form mass movements.
mircea_popescu: "Love what your doing but I see you do not send to the UK. My company are about to leash a few ATMs on the UK and would love to get a hold of perhaps your ai or pdf so I could print some off to give to everyone who is attending our launch in Feb."
ThickAsThieves: then 10 or so bullet points, and more logos
ThickAsThieves: so these bigfoot guys wanna promote bitcoin on the streets or whatever, and this is the brochure they come up with... http://bitcoinbigfoot.com/showcasing-plan-b-brochure-mock/
asciilifeform: chetty_: possibly of interest - http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-crimean-crisis-and-western-bias.html
chetty_: I'll hang you by the balls and have you f***ed' Ukrainian presidential hopeful abducts pro-Russian MP
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your chick's not putting a machine gun in the middle for the same reason she's not getting laid
asciilifeform: big empty space in the middle for DSHK.
ThickAsThieves: “Zero transaction fees is the future,” Li said. According to him, the freemium business model is the new norm of the twenty-first century, and no industry, not even financial services, is safe from its disruption.
asciilifeform: i meant - of the boatgirls.
mircea_popescu: they're doing it because a fool and his resources are soon partying, and once the party's over they'll just go back home and start their own renaissances.
mircea_popescu: which is actually the greatest boon on the developing world : all those mexicans, arabs etc leeching the welfare states aren't doing it so they may be us or eu citizens etc
mircea_popescu: curretnly the mass migrations are from sane places to idiotic places,
asciilifeform: where are the mass migrations
mircea_popescu: well no, but that's besides the point : they are all excess, as per your definition.
asciilifeform: they can't all be impotent
mircea_popescu: it's like "it never ceases to amaze me how the impotent never rape anyone". well of course not. if they could they wouldn't be impotent.
asciilifeform: it never ceases to amaze me how the 'excess people' make so little trouble, 'going gently into the good night'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that looks like it could propel the boat, in a spot.
mircea_popescu: Neil no 1% was charged (site does indicate that, but it's erroneous). the tx is 3a01762308fc1c9b36478d3bb4c3198eb69f3c29ab24af2e4520727c7fa9c79c3a01762308fc1c9b36478d3bb4c3198eb69f3c29ab24af2e4520727c7fa9c79c once it propagates you can check it.
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid they're sort-of govt backed in most places.
CheckDavid: cazalla: who issues the loan? Government?
asciilifeform: y got paid. They did eventually reappear, so there may be some merit to this theory. With the gaping manholes positioned throughout the city like so many anteater traps for cars, you had the choice of driving either very slowly and carefully, or very fast, and betting your life on the proper functioning of the shock absorbers.'
asciilifeform: 'Having bits of the landscape disappear can be a rude surprise. One summer I arrived in St. Petersburg and found that a new scourge had descended on the land while I was gone: a lot of manhole covers were mysteriously missing. Nobody knew where they went or who profited from their removal. One guess was that the municipal workers, who hadn't been paid in months, took them home with them, to be returned once the
cazalla: CheckDavid: you are only required to begin paying the debt once you earn over x amount