Diablo-D3: it tells fat people "dont eat meat, dont eat fat, dont eat cholesterol, eat wheat and corn and other "vegetables" like them" and people keep getting fatter on that insane advice
asciilifeform: 'a hunchback is cured by the grave.' (rus. proverb)
Diablo-D3: it tells kids in high school "get a degree at any cost no matter what, otherwise you'll never get a job"
Diablo-D3: the government loves to brainwash people
Diablo-D3: hey, if we're going to talk about fat people, bringing up the cure is fair game
Diablo-D3: wheat, corn, sugar cain, all highly toxic drugs that should be on the schedule I list
blackwhite: ahh I see we got a ancapper in the house :)
ThickAsThieves: they are broken
blackwhite: Diablo-D3 they are too fat because they eat shit food. They might as well die of starvation because they sure will die from obesity
Diablo-D3: I feel sorry for them
asciilifeform: incidentally, even a 100% proper science/maths/etc degree can be a liability, as you'll only be considered for the higher paygrades (naturally tighter musical chairs)
Diablo-D3: benkay: yeah, they're fucked
benkay: american college students are so self-important they can barely work service industry gigs.
Diablo-D3: they're turned down for insane reasons
blackwhite: not enough and not for what they will be paid
asciilifeform: we have tighter 'caste stratification' here than in victorian england. an engineer, programmer, even lowly clerk, might live a whole life without speaking to these folks.
Diablo-D3: there are people who have applied to 1000 different jobs and were turned down
Diablo-D3: blackwhite: there are people in america that will take any job
blackwhite: immigrants take the shitty jobs
blackwhite: You won't find a listing for that because no one want to take it unless they are mexicans. It's more or less the same problem around the world
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: all the big agriculture farms go out and find mexicans to work there and illegally bring them into the country
ThickAsThieves: asciilifeform, then you must have never been to a border state
Diablo-D3: they get to get out of that shithole homeland of theirs and get paid a shitload of money by their standards
Diablo-D3: they have a pretty sweet deal
benkay: Americans are turned down from jobs because the communist government imposes artificial wage constraints.
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: Im not blaming the mexcians
asciilifeform: most of the people i know with actual degrees - yours truly included - (sci/eng.) had, at the time of signing up, delusions of employment in academia
gribble: Why I nixed p2p, colored coins and all that jazz pe Trilema - Un blog ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-nixed-p2p-colored-coins-and-all-that-jazz/>; The dork of the month award. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/the-dork-of-the-month-award>; Women Behind Bars pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/women-behind-bars>
ThickAsThieves: <Diablo-D3> ThickAsThieves: plus we have the problem of companies illegally hiring mexicans that work at a fraction of minimum wage/// i dont consider this a problem
benkay: or straight up reject the whole prop. right out of HS?
blackwhite: So I have a question for all you experts. Imagine a bitcoin like protocol that allow you to embed digital assets or watermark certain digital assets. You could in theory imagine everything from digital pokemon cards to creative commons licenses as unique "scarce" resources.
Diablo-D3: benkay: degrees are a downright scam for the industry Im in
benkay: did you ever attend one of the 'colleges'?
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: plus we have the problem of companies illegally hiring mexicans that work at a fraction of minimum wage
Diablo-D3: protip: it doesnt, and you will not get a job because you went there
dub: give them vidya games
Diablo-D3: like, they think going to college means something
dub: just distraction for the cattle class
Diablo-D3: its just that americans have been brainwashed by the government to have a skewed view of what work is
benkay: are there other socialist regimes with the printing presses to employ such volumes of cattle, asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: maybe poor choice of words. 'employment' rather than 'work'
ThickAsThieves: immigrants do all the work
benkay: i don't think there's enough 'work' to absorb all the meat that would need to emigrate to empty out the usa.
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: leo szilard supposedly said 'wisdom consist in getting on the train a day before everybody else.'
benkay: or just bail on the US.
benkay: take out all the fiat loans you can
ThickAsThieves: but the whole thing feels like a scam itself
dub: just a supermarket and the biggest company in th eworld by a couple of metrics
KRS1: kakobrekla: i agree, late/odd hours are the only time I'll go, if I ever do go. The daytime is just so crazy.
kakobrekla: i actually like the 24 hourness in general
KRS1: The one where I live is also 24 hours. Its strange.
KRS1: When you go to leave, the checkouts make a beeping sound. When multiplied by 20+ checkout lanes the sound is deafening. The people are low class and aren't afraid to show it.
KRS1: They actually have some decent goods.
asciilifeform: there are many similar shops
KRS1: its...an experience. Its so big its ridiculous and you can't find help. The one where I live sells everything from sardines to tires.
benkay: *the* supermarket.
kakobrekla: good, cause for a second there i thought i was psychotic or something
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla nope, not the only one.
gribble: The Burgomeister's Demesne: <http://www.burgomeister.org/>; burgomeister.org • Index page: <http://www.burgomeister.org/forum/>; Burgomaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgomaster>
kakobrekla: am i the only one that thinks 'turd master' ?
kakobrekla: re previous twitter link, i thought he was trolling with his name, but then i checked www.tuurdemeester.com/subscribe/ and i see its fuckin real. fuckin unreal.
asciilifeform: 'buzzfeed' - the bus bars which supply current to an electric chair?
mircea_popescu: inconvenient as it may be, girls aged 16 to 19ish are the country.
joecool: "top 15 things most americans don't know about the tea party"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps i should also ask them, next, the best way to avoid write-hazards on MIPS4.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: quite a few u.s. folks know 'the dirt' re: 'the boston tea party.' it isn't exactly a national secret.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves they paid for a wsj piece to explain how bitcoin isn't as good as gold.
ThickAsThieves: i guess there's a GS report on BTC?
ozbot: Twitter / tuurdemeester: Goldman Sachs drops the bomb: ...
asciilifeform: ignores master touches like conniving with intel to stab os/2 in the back, etc.
mike_c: haha " After this version, DirectShow was moved to the Windows SDK". the windows devs didn't mind having it in their pile of crap
mike_c: "Previous versions of the DirectShow SDK were included in the DirectX SDK. ", yeah, they took it out in 2005
mircea_popescu: so they moved it
mike_c: directshow is part of DirectX, their opengl thingie.
mircea_popescu: "DirectShow (sometimes abbreviated as DS or DShow), codename Quartz, is a multimedia framework and API produced by Microsoft for software developers to perform various operations with media files or streams. It is the replacement for Microsoft's earlier Video for Windows technology."
ThickAsThieves: where most people view them
ThickAsThieves: it was on theverge or something popular
mircea_popescu: did anyone put this on reddit or we've not told them yet
ThickAsThieves: got me there!
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: if a man can shoot himself in the back of the head three times by mistake, then why not this.
mircea_popescu: the entire codestack exists by mistake
mircea_popescu: people seem to have this strange aesthetic amnesia when discussing faux 1960s "famous" tarts.
mircea_popescu: as the sore holes of mtgox, the foundation, etc etc scattered all over the forum neatly attest.
mircea_popescu: remember, this is bitcoin. the powers that are can tear the powers that wannabe a new one quite easily
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nil. what are the odds it'll be ok'd ?
mircea_popescu: in other news, tea party runs off with seat in always-democrat constituency
ThickAsThieves: what are the odds itll be blockahain transparent?
ThickAsThieves: maybe they have, NYC BTC exchange inevitable...
asciilifeform: these folks are still puzzling over the question of how to fill a brick of btc with tungsten.
ThickAsThieves: "With millenniums of history behind it as a hedge against debasement, the key to gold’s success is the stability and predictability of its demand."
mike_c: no, first they ignore
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves starting to get a little pannicky, are they :D
ThickAsThieves: the wsj link inexplicably has a pic of dorian
asciilifeform: ' If a ledger-based technology is to succeed, the cyber-currency would very likely have to have some type of fixed exchange rate in order to overcome this obstacle.' << wtf ?
mircea_popescu: KRS1 there's no such thing as gay dogs. dogs, much like people, will fuck other male dogs if no female dogs are available.
asciilifeform: 'As Mr Mullick demonstrated how to tie a "good noose" around a neck for the cameras, half a dozen children around Bengal imitated his moves and accidentally strangled friends and relatives.' << lol
KRS1: And some even cross their legs.
KRS1: I knew it..there was like this dog once who always walked kind of sideways...ever since I first saw it I kind of wondered.
KRS1: It seems there's a whole subculture of queer K9's.. http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003456755/35567200_rainbow_condom_dog20gay_xlarge.jpeg
HeySteve: shouldn't have joined #dogecoin then
KRS1: who knew there were gay dogs..i kind of wondered since I once saw a boy dog trying to hump another boy dog.
artifexd: Also, for the record, I think that increasing the block size right now is a dumb idea, not necessary and counter-productive to the desired result.
mircea_popescu: artifexd perhaps because it's the only one that satisfies some other criteria we don't know about.
mircea_popescu: (and for the record, i'm not arguing that this would be a particular venue of attack, i am merely showing how my thread length/surface metaphore is much better than your lock/lockbox metaphor)
artifexd: Because you still have to find the birthday collision. Why would an attacker try to create a block 1 gigabyte long (which still has to be valid) in order to clash with a block 1 megabyte long?
artifexd: However, your point that limiting the maximum length in order to limit the possible collisions is irrelevant as well because there is already a specific place for you to twiddle that will have the exact result you would want. The nonce/timestamp.
mircea_popescu: an infinite block size is worse than the "1st char of the md5" hash scheme i just proposed.
artifexd: If the hash was one letter, sure. 256 bits? "A lot" is being conservative.
mircea_popescu: they just don't interact linearly.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly why the hash power and the block size interact to create the chain cryptographical security
mircea_popescu: but an attacker with a lot of hash power could create two such blocks and then swap them in and out to create dead txn
artifexd: Because when the hash of a block is "discovered" the contents of that block are spread around the world. An attacker would have to not only find a collection of valid transactions and a sundry other pieces of data that collide with the exact same hash but also convince someone else that the replacement was the actual block.
artifexd: I don't argue with what your saying. I would instead say that this particular manner of attack would be monumentally stupid in the case of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: but mircea_popescu is shorter than the original block.
mircea_popescu: now, inasmuch as your blockhash is 3, how do you know the actual block (Women are not people.) is what hapepned
artifexd: If we assume that md5 is a "good" hash function, then how much data you put into it doesn't have any bearing on what you get out of it. Thus the first character remains, essentially, random regardless of whether the input is 200 bytes or 200 megabytes.
mircea_popescu: we'll have to work at this. suppose your hash function is defined as the first character of the md5.
artifexd: Making that reference harder to forge is where the security comes from. How much happens in between each reference point has no bearing on how vulnerable or reproducable each reference point is.
artifexd: Solidifying a group of tx into a block doesn't provide security in the same sense that 100 twigs in a bundle are stronger than 100 twigs seperately. It provide security in providing a stable time reference for when tx happened. Completely different domains.
ozbot: Bitcoin exchange for high-frequency traders is launched - The Wall Street Journal - MarketWatch
artifexd: I'm fairly well versed in block/transaction/hash/etc mechanics and I am trying to wrap your metaphore around that structure. It doesn't make sense. I normally have a high amount of respect for what you say. In this case though, I think you're wrong. Or, I don't understand the variety and thus need more lurking.
mircea_popescu: this is fundamentally what hashing does : it turns the problem of "cut this thread" into "cut this surface"
mircea_popescu: artifexd your lock metaphore is broken. the block size is the length of a square strip of material
artifexd: mircea_popescu how does doubling the block size quadruple the work needed to get equal security? If a certain lock on a certain box provides XX amount of security, how does increasing the size of the box make the lock worth less?
mircea_popescu: and let them learn to pay for service.
mircea_popescu: let the people raise themselves up to it, rather than having it lowered to their present convenience.
mircea_popescu: as to the side point : bitbet avg bet is over 1 btc.
Neil: Pools are afraid of orphans, and that's the way it should be.
mircea_popescu: but the securing of the chain is an expense external to them and easily externalisable
mircea_popescu: to wit, people have an incentive to mine large blocks fopr the direct payout
mircea_popescu: and no, it is not valid to pretend "block size should be set by the market", because of the problem known as the disaster of commons
mircea_popescu: the idea is for this system to be self sufficient, and in this sense there must always be a rarity of txn slots in blocks with regard to txns
Neil: mircea_popescu: It'd be the end of bitbet with fees that high.
mircea_popescu: if there are 10k slots made just as soon as there's 10k txns looking for a slot, you'll not see any fees.
mircea_popescu: if there are 1k slots and 10k txns vieing for a slot, you may see high fees
mircea_popescu: cryptography aside, there is the economic problem, : the only way to extract rents is rarity.
Neil: These things should be chosen by the market, just like fees. I doubt we'll get blocks much bigger than 1MB for a long time to come, even if there weren't a limit now.
mircea_popescu: currently blocks are secured through the process of mining. the hash count per block is a rough proxy for its cryptographical security.
San1ty-Work: VanCleef: I heard some rumors that they are planning to deploy 1600 PH
mircea_popescu: there are two good reasons not to increase it. one is that the larger the block, the more expensive its securing
Neil: It's the right thing to do.
mircea_popescu: Neil so you believe the block size will increase. why ?
Neil: artifexd: The occasional 900 KB blocks rarely go over 1200 txns
artifexd: 1meg block allows for (ideally) 5000 transactions (at 200 bytes/tx). To get 12.5 btc in fees, each transaction will have to pay .0025 btc in fees. Them thar are some hefty fees.
Neil: Well I believe the block size will increase. But also with say ~1k txns per 1MB block, I don't see people paying an average fee of 0.0013 BTC. Especially as I expect BTC to be significantly higher than today.
Neil: We'd definitely need the block size limit substantially raised or removed, but that's gonna have to happen in the next 18 mths anyway.
mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/stats/1K4FswVNus5xJZJ6TYqAzWSy3tXBBFdGnM/ < the famous 1k4fs is like 1.2k
ThickAsThieves: "An implant plug-in named CAPTIVATEDAUDIENCE, for example, is used to take over a targeted computer’s microphone and record conversations taking place near the device. Another, GUMFISH, can covertly take over a computer’s webcam and snap photographs. FOGGYBOTTOM records logs of Internet browsing histories and collects login details and passwords used to access websites and email
ThickAsThieves: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/03/12/nsa-plans-infect-millions-computers-malware/
mircea_popescu: Neil: I'm definitely in the top 3 bettors on bitbet; wouldn't be surprised if #1 by amt of BTC bet. Scary. << how much is that ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: people love the sort of shit.
mircea_popescu: the20year you can end up with a tv show on top of everything, maybe put a little effort into it, curate a youtube channel, do some blogwork/outreach
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c he has good points on the topic. then people wonder why he wasn't ever a topic of study by acaemia. which academia, the one that subsits on ex hedge fund manager alumni bequests ?
C01DA51CE: what a bunch of whores these girls are now
C01DA51CE: its tropical there?
C01DA51CE: yeah i wouldnt eat the skin but
cazalla: you can eat the skin and all
KRS1: ill have to remember that..but they also have hair on them as if the hairs are whiskers from a 3 day shaven sailor.
C01DA51CE: yeah its the country bird
cazalla: the fruit has nothing to do with NZ btw
KRS1: only from the store
cazalla: ok the fruit
C01DA51CE: have you ever had one fresh off the vine?
cazalla: kiwi fruit or the bird?
KRS1: yes i dont like them
C01DA51CE: why do they call NZ
C01DA51CE: what time is it there?
cazalla: imagine taking a haircut from the cypriot government
kakobrekla: i thought you gonna carry on with the insults
C01DA51CE: the next amazon?
C01DA51CE: what do you think of the bitcoinshop.us
kakobrekla: i dont have either so you must be stoned.
C01DA51CE: hard to tell the two apart.
cazalla: find that bitcoin the garbage file?
C01DA51CE: im hacking the gibson
C01DA51CE: my names the cool kind
kakobrekla: the honest kind
cazalla: i could fuck them now but she'd leave me
cazalla: 5k would allow me to buy a nice acreage, lambo but more importantly, fuck some of the wifes friends with insane display of wealth
cazalla: i can't remember the article but it mentioned idiots who happened across bitcoin and made some money
cazalla: blow fish face but i was desperate to drink, nothing in the house but this crap
cazalla: i learned that i shouldn't try to chug champagne from the bottle
kakobrekla: i should buy you a drink then!
kakobrekla: i think the biggest roller is 10%
Neil: Was doing very well until Gox 1Mar and the (inconsistent IMO) decision that was made on SDICE (where market cap was zero but share price was above XX). But whatever. Still above water, but only just.
Neil: I'm definitely in the top 3 bettors on bitbet; wouldn't be surprised if #1 by amt of BTC bet. Scary.
btcinmypocket: Neil: Well, that data was provided by someone(s) who had the lack of ethics to include bitcoin stealing trojans in with the publication, so I don't doubt you have finding problem with the records. I would expect that they would mess with a bit if there is incentive.
Neil: Karpeles seems to have been a complete fuckwit who just didn't take anything seriously; least of all other people's money. Assuming there wasn't fraud.
Neil: Some of my old transactions could be found on that web page that was put up, but some weren't there either. Very odd.
Neil: I doubt they deleted anything
cazalla: I am worried about ID, I cancelled/deleted my account which after 90 days they said they purge details but I fucking doubt it
Neil: I had nothing there; know many who did though. And ID etc.
Neil: It only became a gox bet in the last 2 weeks
Neil: cazalla: Never thought they'd go before Mar 1st. Also bets were from last year
Neil: Well 25 mins between blocks is feeling good at the moment :)
cazalla: why would you bet gox above 150 then?
Neil: Yeah they sometimes pay off spectacularly. I blew up on the MtGox $150 1March; if he'd only hung on another 4 days...
cazalla: i love the long shots :)
Neil: The amount of hardware to come online to get 30% increases every 10 days is just nuts
Neil: Got another chance in 2 weeks even if this misses
cazalla: it'll be a close one re: the under 10% bet
Neil: Doesn't need much of a pause to get there
cazalla: litecoin is like the kid who said his $2 shop game of brick is the same as tetris on a gameboy (bitcoin)
MisterE: LTC on Huboi get in on the pump
ThickAsThieves: [22:54] <mike_c> A hyperactive stock market is the pickpocket of enterprise. /// hadnt read that one, i like it.
the20year2: There was one subdivision close to me where every single house was a cookie cutter design , and the FSBOs averaged $97k , agent listings averaged $116k or so
Chris_Sabian_: is it true then?
the20year2: When I got into real estate, i didn't believe the statistic they told agents. So, I individually tracked dozens of properties in my area that were listed without realtors, vs those listed with them
Chris_Sabian_: and thay money comes from the seller?
the20year2: Compared to say offering just 4% to the seller's agent, which would result in just $2k to them
the20year2: So, with say a $100k property @ 3% selling agent comission they're gonna get $1500, with the $2500 bonus they end up getting $4k
the20year2: almost all brokerages in the US have clauses that if the selling agent comission goes above the 'area norm' , the remainder passes through to the agent directly