BingoBoingo: Well, the microkernel thing is different
BingoBoingo: Other parts as well.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: loox like they lifted various drivers from freebsd, since i last saw
ben_vulpes: sad fate to be remembered for failing to take out agents of the imperium given ~unlimited time and inclination to prepare.
diana_coman: the eucrypt keccak implementation uses an out parameter for output and so it will fill whatever the caller provides
diana_coman: asciilifeform, int8 is indeed meant to be on 8 bits so no idea what that thing there is ; fwiw I added it to my comment on the article with ref to your q here in the logs too because I'm puzzled by it too
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can you clarify re the 'int8' thing plox ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 18:53 diana_coman: asciilifeform, keccak can spit out as many or as few bits as you want it to, not sure what is you q there re keccak
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857438 << ok i wasn't sure whether diana_coman's keccak knew how to output arbitrary bitness. but my other point was that a 32bit hash may as well be crc32, there can be no notion of collision resistance when yer output is 32b.
diana_coman: http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-126805 - waiting in the queue
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 18:17 mircea_popescu: ok. 1 and 6 we ignore, as they're trivial for our exercise.
diana_coman: specifically, bit-level version gives bit-level precision so one can ask for as many bits as they want; workhorse byte-level keccak implementation works at byte-level so it will spit out as many *bytes* as you ask for (see http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/08/eucrypt-chapter-9-byte-order-and-bit-disorder-in-keccak/#selection-193.1-197.51 )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, keccak can spit out as many or as few bits as you want it to, not sure what is you q there re keccak
mircea_popescu: in ~principle~ eve can't even know what serpent keys either server or client are using.
mircea_popescu: im really only using it as an adhoc crc ; possibly should either get rid of it altogether, or implement a proper ec.
asciilifeform: does diana_coman's keccak do this ? ( aside from the q of what does a 32bit hash output win, it aint exactly hard to collide into a desired 32bit regardless of how you make hash algo.. )
asciilifeform: 'n*(4*int64 + int32) (32 bytes each key followed by a 4 byte ID calculated as the keccak hash of the key itself)' << unless i misread, how does one get a 4byte output from keccak ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo doh. let's check back with the aghast lonely hearts club when we're discussing how business can keep slaves (ie, them) if they feel like it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is the 20 may date intentional ?
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile from other mines: "I’m active in supporting LGBT causes. My boyfriend recently said that “this whole LGBT thing has gone way too far” and that he’s no longer sure what to think about same-sex marriage, even though he had thought he supported it. Worse, he said that maybe the original civil rights movement went too far, and perhaps businesses should be allowed to racially discriminate if they want to. In fairnes
BingoBoingo: And yet 100% of them are only 19 once
mircea_popescu: the 1 in 6 far exceeds the 1 in 20 or so females worth the fucking in ~anyone's estimation.
BingoBoingo: Ah, slave priviledge in action. Countless ninjashoguns weep as the combination of right behavior and right parts allows the priviledged to learn in hallowed logs.
mircea_popescu: some clever bits of math permit one to encrypt a message with the use of that 221 so that only he who knows 13 * 17 =221 can ever get it back out.
mircea_popescu: this is especially true the larger the prime numbers become. rsa uses this disparity to produce an undefeatable encryptio scheme. the two prime factors (13, 17) are the private (ie, secret) key. their product (221) is the public key.
mircea_popescu: right. this is then the rsa problem : it is relatively easy to multiply prime numbers ; it is exceedingly difficult to get them back out of the multiplicated soup
mircea_popescu: now, can you tell me the non-trivial prime factors of 221 ? (but without looking anywhere online).
mircea_popescu: ok. 1 and 6 we ignore, as they're trivial for our exercise.
mircea_popescu: nicoleci rsa keys are useless when the key is short. do you understand how rsa works ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 16:21 asciilifeform: and i'ma never recommend to anyone the use of heathen 'rsa chips'. not even because they all, without exception, work with only 'toy' key lengths, but because srsly wtf.
nicoleci: im not going to make excuses for not connecting the pigeon talk, but no fucking clue what http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855365 means
asciilifeform: same place where they have the bed the wrights slept in, the shitter they shat in, etc
asciilifeform: ( my local ww1 aviation museum has entire glass case of stuffed 'famous' carrier pigeons. so they defo know about'em in usa... )
mircea_popescu: meanwhile @birdcage, "<nicoleci> im getting so frusterated with these logs <mircea_popescu> yssat ? <nicoleci> i understand every 45th line"
asciilifeform: 'Asciilifeform would never recommend the use of 'rsa chips' as they work with only 'toy' key lengths, work in one direction, and have to be manually transported' << agh what
mircea_popescu: bits so then
mircea_popescu: ok, so this back of a digital envelope seems to suggest we want : 1. fixed size 1470 byte rsa packets, made to work with 3920-bit rsa (of which i presume the useful message size to be 1872 bit, diana_coman plox to confirm maffs ?). such a packet has then 1696 bits spare for e and bullshit.
mircea_popescu: the thing is -- new accounts handled "as resources permit" anyway, so...
asciilifeform: fortunately they parallelize linearly
asciilifeform: i expect decryptions will be the principal cpu expense of running a rsatronic box. at least until the fyootoor day of fpga etc
mircea_popescu: diana_coman 2944 bit rsa keys, meaning 1384 bit usable message space in the rsa packet ? with oaep and everything ?
Mocky: 1472 is what i've used in the past
mircea_popescu: alright then, ima put 1472 bytes helo packet ; meaning 2944 bit rsa keys.
asciilifeform: the nic will simply insert a 0 octet
mircea_popescu: am i absurd in wanting to start from 1499 rather than 1500 ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1500(ethernet frame) - 20 byte (ip header) - 8 byte == 1472
mircea_popescu: ( and btw diana_coman it's entirely possible this will mean republic might well inherit the format, seeing how the problem we are dealing with isn't of our own make -- others will run into it too.)
mircea_popescu: i'm going to re-write the rewrite of comms protocol with this new paradigm.
mircea_popescu: but yes, as far as anyone knows 2048 bit keys perfectly safe, now and for the foreseable future (this isn't a comment on koch faux-pgp, which unsafe at any length as well documented in logs qntra and so on).
mircea_popescu: of course... if we used smaller rsa keys we could fit in the mtu...
diana_coman: so basically what, for as long as attacker can keep flooding , presumably no new accounts although there might still be some that make it through?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are no frames bigger than 1500 ( aside from exotic lans )
diana_coman: precisely; I think that in principle there is a possibility of that "attack" but I fail to see that it's worth much really
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm, they made it through - presumably fragged though?
diana_coman: he is talking of the new rsa packets that are biggest
mircea_popescu: there are no frags.
Mocky: e.g. attacker floods with packet frags prevents legitimate frags from ever being reassembled, instead silently dropped, server is none the wiser
diana_coman: Mocky, if I get this right you argue that it's better to do frag internally because can't trust externally to not fuck up the line entirely as attack vector?
mircea_popescu: there's more, somewhere i say "meanwhile people figured out the complexity's not worth the saving" and etc. recurrent topic.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform typical pc has the following situation : 64 bit registers, 128 bit memory, 1024 bit disk sectors, 64 mb video buffers, and atop sitting a drunk driver who thinks 8 bits are a byte.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 23:03 mircea_popescu: it's bullshit all the way down, "the 4096 bit block gets cut into 16 sub blocks to be fit into rotorizers that cut each block into 64 bits and process with their 4 bit s boxes". because we're from the fucking cartoons.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:27 mircea_popescu: what it is is certainly <1kb say. wasting the occasional portion of a kb is not so unlike wasting the occasional portion of a 64 bit register to represent a boolean value.
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857260 I see anything like this in the logs, do you have a link?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 14:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the attacker sends you sequence-1 packets. and you hold them. and as i said, "doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks."
Mocky: if you accept 16k new-acct packets seems just as easy to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857229 but further, if you rely on external frag-reassm it's even easier for attacker to prevent you from accepting *any* new account packets
mircea_popescu: it's funny how "optimization" lures the mind.
asciilifeform: i.e. the space saving is illusory.
asciilifeform: 4096bit is 512byte, you're sending 1500 frame always, even if your nominal packet is 3bytes long. simply how ethernet worx.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 05:07 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855218 >> players in sight of each other, all getting position updates for all others is *THE* central scaling 'n squared problem' for mmo. 20 byte position sent 4 times per second to 100 players is 8k/s per player. and 4 updates per second is really not enough for good playability when you factor in the round trip lag. 15/s is less draconian (many games send 30-60). 100 players gathered with 15 updates
asciilifeform: so this'd easily cut into 1 process that eats always 4096bit, and another that eats 16kb.
asciilifeform: ( the serpent packets are constrained to simply multiples of 128 )
asciilifeform: so there are 2 fundamental types
asciilifeform: as i currently understand, the only non-negotiably 'heavy' one is the new acct packet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem degrades gracefully : even if you do have shared rsa key, client sometimes wants to send serpent keys (which go to rsa) and some other times wants to send plain cruft (goes to serpent). so two sizes again
mircea_popescu: server as it stands now doesn't talk to any new people, hence the "talk to mp" thing in client.
mircea_popescu: here's the bojum with that : soner or later, you gotta meet new people. the DEFINITION of "new people" is "no way to secret prior". so...
mircea_popescu: see ? it's not that i hate you, but we gotta talk of the same things to talk to any sort of productive end.
asciilifeform: rereading http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857215 -- if you actually gotta take 'new rsa key' from allcomers, and there is no way to have'em know a seekrit bitstring prior , then yes afaik it is impossible to do better than mircea_popescu's algo. ( it is unclear to me what's to prevent enemy from swamping your system with new acct requests and giving you 9000 TB of rsa keys to store, but possibly i missed a detail )
asciilifeform: and pretty sure i grasp the priors. for instance, the proggy i originally wrote the udp thing for, operated in 64kB chunks.
asciilifeform: my observation is strictly in re linux defragger gives you no way to filter, whereas hand-sewn -- would. but it is not my intention to prevent folx from pissing on erry possible electric fence, i'ma leave it there.
mircea_popescu: looky, we're discontinuing this discussion, because you've not taken the time to familiarize with priors and i don't judge it's worth your time to do so, or mine to make you do so.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the attacker sends you sequence-1 packets. and you hold them. and as i said, "doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks."
asciilifeform: the way i'd do it, is to have e.g. 1400 byte packets , and they're authenticated (e.g. client gets seekrit 512bit turd, and keccak(turd + payload) is a field in those 1400) , and ~then~ there is a flag for whether the packet is part of a e.g. 8 byte sequence that gotta reasm, or not .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: realize that the linux frag reassembler doesn't give you anything near GB buffer
asciilifeform: diana_coman: imho i described the problem with using linux's fragger/defragger in sufficient detail, would rather not clutter the log with a repeat
diana_coman: asciilifeform, but what's the problem with that? client sends and waits (for as long as it wants) for a reply; whenever it has enough of waiting...sends again; until it makes it
asciilifeform: and that you can then use fyootoor fragless ip stack . is all.
asciilifeform: whereas if you rely on the udp fragger, only 1 in 4 chunks does, and the rest are not mechanically filtrable.
asciilifeform: right but if you reasm in own proggy, the chunks actually carry the port # and origin ip.
mircea_popescu: now, if it also has 1 single size, that means the size of all packets is 16kb
asciilifeform: i'd still rather reasm'em in the proggy itself, rather than baking in a perma-reliance on the linux nonsense. but i suppose is easy to say, but moar work to actually bake.
mircea_popescu: 6. if you pertmit this 16kb item be chunked, you basically rebuild the tcp ddos bs long discussed here. if it has to be in 1 piece, you can always use or discard on sight.
mircea_popescu: 1. server must be able to acquire RSA key of client. 2. the rsa key of client will have to go in a rsa message, because they presumably don't have serpent keys agreed upon ; 3. the payload for one chunk of rsa key is 1960 bytes, fixed ; 4. the size of a key is 3.x such 1960 byte chunks, meaning 4 chunks. 5. the size of a 4 payload message is 16kb.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:57 asciilifeform: imho if you want large messages, oughta have own fragger/reasmer, not the ??? in linux/ciscolade
asciilifeform: ( if i were writing this proggy, i'd rather http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855329 . )
mircea_popescu: here's the bojum, explained :
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:12 asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage'
diana_coman: so then hooray
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because the largest packet we ~need~ is 16kb
diana_coman: asciilifeform, the above wasn't clear until now, it's clarified ...now
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hm if this is so, then i have nfi why you'd want to try an' shorten packets
mircea_popescu: padding wouldn't cost in principle, except if crypto produced then entropy costs.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: given that you have rsa in there also, how do you intend to make'em shorter ? or is this strictly re the serpent payloads
diana_coman: anyways, will wait to see the updates
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it certainly makes the code simpler! if only I could always choose by this criteria though...
asciilifeform: ultimately it's diana_coman's proggy, not mine, i can only recommend. imho fixed packets make the coad 9000x simpler, and simplify crapola filtration also. but if diana_coman's application absolutely gotta vary the lengths, then do it..
diana_coman: there IS some padding, i.e. it's not entirely arbitrary lengths, no
diana_coman: it's not the isp, lol; it's eulora-internal because client can choose how much traffic it generates
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i dun think there exists still on planet3 an isp that actually charges per-byte
asciilifeform: afaik there is no practical reason to actually send variable-length udp.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the item originally for gossipd experimentations. udp gives a max practical packet length ( what it is , remains to be determined ) and if given proggy's protocol needs variably-sized ones, you can pad with rng.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_2_ProcessBlock.txt
mod6: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is bringing this with him to texas. He said he'd be able to have it up and running in a rack down there by mid-November.
mod6: I have also pulled '216.151.13.78' off of the Advertised Node list.
mod6: ben_vulpes: I am shutting down 'lovelace' (the second tbf node) now.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 03:10 mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: i guess im behind the times in obstetrics.
diana_coman: the thing is though that at any rate, it won't get the same type of use as it did as main disk so I don't know whether much can be found out from that really
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 21:17 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , also give signal re whether you want the newer iptables-enabled kernel to go on your boot sd , when we take the boxen down ( iirc we already did mod6's )
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856937 -> yes, please; also yes, can leave the old disk plugged in to see when it dies, why not (iirc there should still be 1 usb2 empty slot on my RC as the other one has an FG)
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857110 -> if it's anything like mine, it'll be mostly loud complaints from php because "time zone not set!!!" and similar (apparently php version on the RC is too new for its own good)
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856931 -> today works anytime really, just let me know in the logs
mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
mod6: oh nice, gonna put them heat-sinks on top and bottom 'eh?
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: unless you want to spend next 2 hrs in the bilge, go ahead an' sleep.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: next crate will contain usb extenders, so the 'dun fit 2' stops being issue
BingoBoingo: Can reach, no need to power down to do this. Can't really power down safely at the A/C feed either. Individual lines are all D/C
asciilifeform: i want max hedgehog on these.
asciilifeform: also ok to power down A/C to do this, they are unoccupied
BingoBoingo: Could be done, but not while fitting another drive in dulap
mircea_popescu: kinda what the whole thing is all about ; moat made of earned knowledge and so on.
asciilifeform: for the l0gz
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: can you get a quick photo of these ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 20:01 mod6: holy shit, they packed a cookie in there after they opened the bag?
asciilifeform: diana_coman & mod6 will get brand new disks when they signal readiness for downtime
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not only in hand, but BingoBoingo is in there nao and we revived 2 units and nao doing lobbes's
asciilifeform: ( this is a property of ordinary li cells, the kind in chinesium wristwatch, or yer bios, rather than the lappy type )
mircea_popescu: exactly! i agree, this is the icon of the problem. lithium batteries, everywhere. precisely-so.
mircea_popescu: "we are the premiere science and technology nothingatall in teh world!" "then how come the world series is always in fucking iowa"
mircea_popescu: so you know, "usa is the powerfulest thing ever" "reheheally" / "oh, #metoo matters" "where ?" and so on ad infinitum.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 19:19 phf: there's probably an upper bound of availability of thinking man's technology, kind of like strugatsky's "za milliard let do konca sveta". once you start hitting those limits suddenly "my baby is in hospitals these days" etc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856857 << these limits are everywhere. "we deliver" "no you don't" / "restaurants exist" "no they don't : http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ " and so on. the world essentially consists of the ~assumptions~ of existence and function of a large crowd of morons who never test these.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856839 <<< remember when all the chickies programmed their sms'en on 2 inch screens, 2.1 button presses per character on avg ?
asciilifeform: the balcony thing is secondary
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta the main thrust behind asciilifeform's interest
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 19:04 asciilifeform: aside from sunlight, the other win from 'eink', mod6 , is that it draws 0 current when not drawing.
asciilifeform: ( the korean thing is interesting in that they jacked up the current and thing refreshes fast enuff to play 'doom'... )
mircea_popescu: yes but i don't have problems with the elements at my desk.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaactually the koreans make one for desk
asciilifeform: ( i recently read a old ru treatise re subj, will dig up the link if anybody really wants )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 18:53 mod6: are there any colors on ink-screen?
asciilifeform: the moar astonishing phact, is that the punishment was typically administered by ~two~ whippers, and they'd have to coordinate re 'speshul order'.
asciilifeform: the obvious way -- whipper would artfully miss
asciilifeform: they were, on record
asciilifeform: ( the skill lay in administering 'just right' amt of thrashing, to turn a '10 strokes' into a death sentence, or 200 into survivable/educational )
asciilifeform: word ended up generic 'whip' in modern ru, but there was a specific item, and whipper was considered skilled trade, with year+ apprenticeship
mircea_popescu: ro has cnut ; they were handmade throughout
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, the historical/trad ru кнут was considered 'proprietary tech', all examples were inventoried, and afaik none survived the 19th c prohibition on the whipping
mircea_popescu: then a) no moar unicode and b) full screen update ~costless.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856800 << possibly the correct solution is to go back to 1980s handcalc state of the art, declare CELLS.
asciilifeform: so as far as ro, exquisite hippo leather..
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 18:47 asciilifeform: i've found that i personally think palpably smoother when on balcony, in sunlight. but atm can only do this with printouts..
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856794 << you might be the first fellow to palpate a thought.
asciilifeform: tho iirc i first encountered it under some other name
mod6: hippos in these parts just disgust me
asciilifeform: reminds me of... i gotta have seen it in a mircea_popescu article, can't think where else could've. that thing in egypt, made from hippo leather
mod6: oh yeah, lot of nerve endings there. that smarts.
mircea_popescu: especially made for hurting girls, really. gets say the oh-so-delicate inner thigh to perfection.
mircea_popescu: nah, there;s this special plastic thing, leaves these... love kisses, let's call them.
mircea_popescu: in other not really news, there's something very pretty about a slavegirl examining her welts in disbelief.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: then power down lobbes's unit and put its disk in dulap, i'ma snapshot
asciilifeform: ok BingoBoingo when you get there, feel free to re-ignite C ( disk is ready )
asciilifeform: bring all of the drives
BingoBoingo: Aite, lemme walk back to the datacenter
mod6: workin' on the pizarro stuff here...
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: A is powered up as are the fans. Added a few more 5v ports
asciilifeform: oughta be, with the blower, neh
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, will walk over to the DC and swap sticks
BingoBoingo: Lemme check the notes
lobbes: I would also love an iptable-enabled kernel. And ditto on keeping the old drive as an auxiliary; may as well eh
BingoBoingo: Photo post because for some reason the Qntra title and link bot still hasn't been banned from twitter
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes : if yer feeling brave, can also keep old drive on usb2 jack, as auxiliary storage, see just how long they live...
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , also give signal re whether you want the newer iptables-enabled kernel to go on your boot sd , when we take the boxen down ( iirc we already did mod6's )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( i.e. prolly passed as 'paper' ) << How are you enjoying the tourist information?
BingoBoingo: Well, these feel like the sort of thing mircea_popescu could fill up a sack with and use for beating passers-by. The old ones not so much
asciilifeform: i went with 'heat' as hypothesis re lifespan, and so got these with moar surface , plus room for hedgehog
asciilifeform: the old ones also seemed great until rot.
BingoBoingo: But without the heatsinks still too tall to double up (keychain retainer)
BingoBoingo: I have heatsinks on two at the moment
asciilifeform: got the heatsinks on ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of the spiffy new sticks is in Dulap. Their individual height is too great to double up
asciilifeform: the dissection prolly won't happen till weekend tho.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 20:01 mod6: holy shit, they packed a cookie in there after they opened the bag?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 19:41 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Package is in the mail
BingoBoingo: No, I brought the cookie
BingoBoingo: All the stop start, change speed, twist pivot, plant shoulder for impact did a number on the thing
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: oh hey, post a pic of the epic crate.
BingoBoingo: Then I navigated poorly behaved zombie crowds
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fit the hedgehogs 1st plox.
asciilifeform: ( i'ma image'em for the 2 currently dead pilotplant boxen )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you can swing by the dc today, stuff 2 of the new drives into dulap plox.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu refers to it as 'the killer micro problem'
asciilifeform: and entirely pinnable on the lolcat-market.
asciilifeform: phf: there was, and, observe, it went away.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-08 03:58 asciilifeform: and here is where we meet up with vlsi boojum: you can't do vlsi economically if there is room for six computers total.
phf: asciilifeform: i'm mostly making a humorous point. there was after all a time when you could connect your commodore to your cathode ray tube
BingoBoingo: Let's see what the tape on yours says
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, i have word that the one you sent, also came in, will be picking it up shortly
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 16:58 asciilifeform: i suspect that subtracting the rolex,vertu,patek,etc. pseudo-craftsman industrial garbage, leaves the null set tho.
asciilifeform: the availability of thinking-man tech that can't be repackaged and sold to the lolcats, is ~0 .
asciilifeform: phf: we did have the 'mass marketism' thread, aha
phf: there's probably an upper bound of availability of thinking man's technology, kind of like strugatsky's "za milliard let do konca sveta". once you start hitting those limits suddenly "my baby is in hospitals these days" etc.
asciilifeform: ( and the ones that ~do~ come with controller, are marketed to the idjit 'hackaday' crowd, and so they get this ersatz thing that half-worx )
asciilifeform: phf: as i reckon, they're designed from the start to be integrated into some starvation-cheap konsoomer crapola . ergo they omit the controller.
asciilifeform: ( who the fuck wants to contend with TWO linux boxen , with TWO batteries, etc )
asciilifeform: d00d had fpga & buncha FETs for taking the outputs to the magic voltage, buck converter for generating same, painstakenly hand-placed ribbon connectors, etc
phf: closests i've gotten to eink display is a jailbroken kindle with a hacky local client of some sort (there's vnc and there's also a kindle native terminal). obviously unfit for real work
phf: asciilifeform: i'm somewhat familiar with the field, there's periodic hackaday posts about attempts to reverse engineer the whachamacallem refresh matrices or whatever specialized name they have
asciilifeform: phf: you can get up to 10" panels, for ~pennies, the issue is the controller, nobody makes 1 that works with the surplus 'kindle' etc panels.
phf: adafruit sells a 3" eink screen which connects over gpio, i'm not grokking why nobody's selling anything bigger. the whole field is a mystery
asciilifeform: ( can very much feel the heat, even, from it )
asciilifeform: lcd, esp. if you want it to be visible in the day, draws quite heavy currents.