nubbins`: i'm waiting for mother nature to pop out and say APRIL FOOLS LELELEL
thestringpuller: they don't get spring time
gribble: Error: This is not one of the supported markets. Please choose one of ['bcent', 'btcn', 'coinbase', 'cbx', 'bitmynt', 'btsp', 'btcavg', 'krk', 'btcde', 'btce', 'bfx'].
gribble: (premium <market1> <market2>) -- Calculate the premium of market1 over market2, using last trade price. Uses USD exchange rate. If USD is not traded on one of the target markets, queries currency conversion from google.
gribble: (premium <market1> <market2>) -- Calculate the premium of market1 over market2, using last trade price. Uses USD exchange rate. If USD is not traded on one of the target markets, queries currency conversion from google.
MisterE: the log?
bounce: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/01/mpesa_mobile_money_transfer_service_launches_in_romania/
moiety: i never thought id see the day
moiety: yeah baby #2 on the way!
moiety: BingoBoingo: the disappearing blogger returned again, this time to hang around and wondered where you hung around but thinks this is a bit much for him. sends his regards though
cads2: she couldn't connect the idea of someone really smart with the image of someone really socially inept
cads2: I failed to be able to explain to my romanian cousin the notion of "nerd"
BingoBoingo: moiety: They look grand today
moiety: BingoBoingo: glad to hear it :) how epic are the logs?!
BingoBoingo: Apparently Maged thinks the MPOE-PR account was sold or hacked.
Mats_cd03: it has something about n numbers of holders having xx% of the holdings
chetty: all good ideas get hijacked eventually. we just try to make best use of the window
chetty: MisterE: bitcoin comes with checks and balances built-in and can be upgraded//like the US constitution
mircea_popescu: but anyway, tis late. we'll continue... tomorrow. which is another day.
MisterE: no reason to say BTC will be the one that "wins"
mircea_popescu: MisterE in the same sense there's no built in check to the number of alt coins that can be created
decimation: other things.
decimation: meanwhile, the NY state regulator on bitcoin (from my link): LAWSKY: Yes, and I think my understanding and it was really from the day-two testimony when I asked that question again about programmable currency that that is one of the things that potentially you could have with the color coding. They also gave an example of a young person whose parents want to give them an allowance but want to make sure that it goes for certain things and not
mircea_popescu: well... at the time this was true.
mircea_popescu: MisterE the best part is this : at the time, if i told a proponent that "govt will just monopolize it" he'd just have loled at me. "what are you talking about, ANYONE CAN ISSUE PAPER"
decimation: if bitcoin is the new Venice, will not bitcoin also eventually form its own customs and laws, like Venice?
mircea_popescu: that aside, obviously the technology is better, crypto chain > paper issuance.
mircea_popescu: im sure when law was writing it wasn't directly obvious that the thing'll end up as a welfare scam either.
mircea_popescu: but it's not of the paper.
mircea_popescu: the problem with paper money run by a government is exactly the same as the problem with a bitcoin run by government.
decimation: ANDREESSEN: One of the characteristics of a new idea is all the experts who came up in the old regime look at it and laugh...Almost exactly 300 years ago, a Scottish economist, ironically, named John Law basically invented at the time this crazy idea of paper currency or fiat currency. ... And every economist on the planet 300 years ago thought that he was a complete lunatic. And so I think this is just the story, the recurring story of how
mircea_popescu: yeah, they came up wirth it
ozbot: White Collar Fraud: Update on Bitcoin Money Laundering Case: Both Defendants Are Talking to the Feds
mircea_popescu: decimation you familiar with the bespoke fucksmith ?
antephialtic: and the smoking of too many substances
antephialtic: its the natural jew hair
antephialtic: well the other guy, BTCKing is definitely the bigger prize for the state since he was actually laundering SR money
antephialtic: and probably trying to incriminate others
mircea_popescu: "According to a March 28th filing in Manhattan federal court, Assistant U.S. Attorney Serrin Turner has asked for the 24-year-old Shrems case to be postponed until April 28th."
mircea_popescu: "Charlie Shrem, known for his alleged involvement in the Silk Road scandal, is in talks with US prosecutors for a plea bargain."
diametric: Maybe so, I vaguely remember at the time of it happening a lot of organization changes took place but its been a while now.
diametric: Though, CN's parent company still holds a significant portion of shares they're independently owned
MisterE: artifexd: http://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead
MisterE: but 2_ac had actually laid down the tracks in a premonition of his upcoming death he went on a recording binge
ThickAsThieves: many posthumous albums come from the hip pop world
ThickAsThieves: but i suspect the powers that be will pummel him into mediocrity
mircea_popescu: they got along ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recently i was reading some vintage dan mocsny (circa '91) and spotted szabo in the thread...
ozbot: History and the Security of Property
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform people have peculiar interactions with the voices in their heads. it leads to fascinating conclusions.
ThickAsThieves: these forum people now think my account was compromised
asciilifeform: is there really anyone left who doesn't understand that, if you're transmitting plaintext, 'the medium is written' always?
ThickAsThieves: i enjoyed the garble, was a nice surprise reading logs on tablet
mike_c: now do one on bitbet where all the weights flip!
MisterE: oh yea, let the fooling begin!
mircea_popescu: but thanks for the fix.
antephialtic: if things go badly, the evidence will be everlasting
antephialtic: agreed. additionally Many do not prefer to enter a potentially compromising conversation when the medium is written
MisterE: Blogging is one thing and quick tweets are easy too but defending your positions in real time is another animal many are not prepared for.
kakobrekla: eh, let the girl have a day off
mike_c: omg. the log is remapping pathways in my brain. it's making me dyslexic.
mircea_popescu: what i dislike is a bunch of fucktards going around with money that isn't theirs, muddying things up.
MisterE: nothing other than being a space enthusiast
MisterE: hunger inspires looking for food, not looking toward the stars heh
mircea_popescu: not that people can't rehash the ancient arguments re the importance of the church and present them de novo in favour of the state.
MisterE: the other thing about the 'intangible benefits' of research and exploration is that it inspires and this is so very much lacking in todays youth. When we were walking on the moon people were amazed and wanted to be engineers, nothing like that now. The biggest value to come out of the Apollo project was the increased interest in science.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic if you think the welfare state did anything for the advancement of pure mathematics...
asciilifeform: 'The basic problem is that the robber-barons of Silicon Valley, unlike their Victorian forebears, do not realize that, if they want all this science, they will actually have to pay for it - themselves. Instead, they look at their tax forms and think: I gave at the office. But they didn't. They gave to scientocracy. Now, they need to figure out how to patronize science - or there will be no science. Just scient
MisterE: I wish when government funded that kind of research the first priority was not always to weaponize it if possible
antephialtic: hard to see how such pursuits would be funded without a system of universities (and thereby the state that funds it)
antephialtic: regardless of your thoughts on welfare, with regards to science their are many avenues of basic research that cannot be justified from a pure ROI standpoint yet have long term benefits to technological advancement. Such as the development of pure mathematics, etcetra
MisterE: those grades are the most vluable though
MisterE: well the were nice but are fallig apart now
asciilifeform: it seems odd, to say the least, to lump together projects done on embezzled government coin, and ones planned/ordered by bureaucrats.
antephialtic: well, inventing the ARPAnet was one kind of cool thing
MisterE: when was the last time a government "fixed" anything?
antephialtic: his thoughts: "Now, whilst some might welcome the reduction in the state caused by a loss of taxation, the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility. The laissez faire economic system is an extreme mindset of some of the more ardent supporters of Freidmanism and the Chicago School. There is no basis for assuming a beneficial society can be created without the state and in all likelihood i
antephialtic: his recipe for how the government could "fix" bitcoin
antephialtic: will be interested to see you two fight it out on twitter. his opinions (on politics at least) seem to be the polar opposite of yours
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: the first post was quite good
ozbot: The politics of Bitcoin pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/the-politics-of-bitcoin/ that too i guess
ozbot: Bitcoin and the poor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/ < now you can read 2012 trilema antephialtic :p
antephialtic: pankakke: the solution to fixing bitcoin is not to make it more complex. that just increases the inertia of having multiple compatible implementations
asciilifeform: i'm genuinely curious if any of the 'alt workfunction' folks are going for something other than 'equality!11'
mircea_popescu: idiot b;logger.com. was gonna leave the guy a reply, but a well.
mircea_popescu: "Austerity measures will have taken the route of unprecedented and radical decimation of the state - everything from state provided healthcare to coastguards to income support to education will be practically gone replaced with numerous forms of bitcoin based insurance."
pankkake: by the way: http://blog.oleganza.com/post/79783931404/idea-of-a-useful-altcoin (last two paragraphs)
mircea_popescu: pankkake not altcoins, but teh people bitching about how other people are eating "their" share of the pie are.
antephialtic: even if he doesn't like the outcome
mircea_popescu: it's pure jealousy, and well... that's not part of the laws of nature.
antephialtic: and to that I say, that's just how the world works
mircea_popescu: antephialtic but the whole argument behind scrypt,. and behind asic-resistence, and all that jazz is "other people than us have better resources and are being rewarded for this."
antephialtic: but I think that is inevitable, and if it is going to happen, I'd rather end up at the top instead of getting crushed in the transition
antephialtic: I don't think cryptocoins will make the world any more egalitarian. Probably less so, as their widespread use would deny the state a lot of tax revenue
asciilifeform: there's possible merit to the experiment if you have a specific enemy in mind, who Must Die (tm), rather than some foggy notion of 'equality'
asciilifeform: that is, even a hypothetical permanently 'asic-proof' algo rewards... botnets.
asciilifeform: and the lamers aren't going to like who that turns out to be
asciilifeform: the problem with any such experiment is that, ultimately, 'the race is to the swift.'
antephialtic: sorry for the PDF
antephialtic: asciilifeform: what are the characteristics of a cellular automaton PoW that make it resistant to an ASIC implementation?
mircea_popescu: We have not come across a proof of work algorithm that is truly ASIC-proof and quick to verify. All alternatives will only delay the problem, and at a considerable cost.
mircea_popescu: Heres are the reasons:
antephialtic: also, the chain with the asics will have much better network security than the new X11 chain, so many rational merchants would stay
mircea_popescu: when people go to war, they couldn't care less about foreign markets or whatever the fuck.
antephialtic: yes, but bad for everyone if less merchants accept it because they lose trust in the tech
mircea_popescu: since the fork will NEVER resolve, tyhere's no scamming.
antephialtic: while double spending on the new chain
mircea_popescu: antephialtic how exactly would the merchants be scammed ?
mircea_popescu: Wtf is the point of crypto if a bank can simply mine all the coins themselves, the entire point of crypto was to get away from elitist bankers
mircea_popescu: And it would be a great way to stick it to the mega banker elite class who invested billions in Asic hardware.
antephialtic: but with bitcoin it would be a lot more dangerous as many merchants would get scammed while their were still multiple viable forks
antephialtic: dogecoin has intentionally forked at least once to switch the block reward algo
antephialtic: I think forking the chain is interesting, would give a lot of incentive for miners and users to switch if the tech was actually better
mircea_popescu: there's a deep understanding of what humanity is all about, that someone as fucking weird as dostoievski could exhibit nevertheless
asciilifeform: rms is a special case. he used to be a fairly sociable creature before his motherland was burned to the ground.
mircea_popescu: well senility aside, there's more to it than that.
antephialtic: a friend of mine works in the same building as stallman. says he does all kinds of weird shit in the office
mircea_popescu: antephialtic most neckbeards make excellent worhorses. doesn't mean anyone would want them i nthe house.
BingoBoingo: This stuff really pops up in most internet fora where the operators develop a pretense of importance and being cereal.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic not rly hate, but for the usual reason neckbeads fail to make it in human society.
antephialtic: ?? why the hate for gmaxwell?
BingoBoingo: Well, maybe there is some simple minded psychotic disease passing through people who think they moderate important parts of bitcoin infrastructure that just suck. And this disease is spread through fucking gmaxwell
mircea_popescu: lol maged trying to be the sly cat.
mircea_popescu: http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Steve-Carell-Ellie-Kemper-Pop-Champagne-For-To-Celebrate-The-New-Year-.gif
kakobrekla: hehe works as intended then :)
ThickAsThieves: really without mpoe-pr and friends, what's left there anyway?
mike_c: hah. perhaps in another year.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i think the traditional way to do it is making this post : https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ipvo-multiple-exchanges-neo-bee-lmb-holdings.167762/page-226#post-5730195
artifexd: I was shocked to find posts by you. Granted, they were a few years ago. But still...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i never posted either.
asciilifeform: curious - am i the only one here who never posted to btct ?
ThickAsThieves: they have no good reason to ban people that are consistently right and alienated just because people wanna be delusional
ThickAsThieves: Hey I'm gonna ban myself from the forum
BingoBoingo: I really don't see the point of cross posting to the Thermos forum, if the aim is killing the pretense of its relevance
mircea_popescu: you get all their shit copied over
mike_c: even that would be better, because at least quora wouldn't have all the shit. but bitcointa.lk does have all the shit too!
mike_c: it would be like if quora sent all their posts to yahoo answers.
mike_c: 50 people posting exclusively on a forum could draw traffic, but i don't believe it works when the content is forwarded to the competition.
tg2: it was pretty elite compared to the general scrubbery
nubbins`: anyway, membership in the forum is by invite only, and i think being rude gets you banned or something
mircea_popescu: anyway, i had a forum on the old polimedia domain, same principle, also pretty dead.
tg2: the general public is pretty dumb
nubbins`: it's pretty dead there
mircea_popescu: it's pretty much the system that sunk -otc into irrelevancy, so...
tg2: why couldn't the otc/vouch system work for a forum?
antephialtic: unfortunate that the forum users fail to see that
antephialtic: honestly speaking, mpoe-pr is pretty inflammatory, but speaks the truth
mircea_popescu: i guess we're going to tune in to .lk for further mpoe-pr posts.
pankkake: "MPOE-PR perma-banned. His only option to get his account back is an appeal to theymos."
kakobrekla: kako sets the fashion trend
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: the clueless are redeemable so long as they educate themselves. the stupid are not capable of contributing useless discussion and should be left to rot on reddit
mircea_popescu: BCB bitcoin core devs are the folks at conformal.
nubbins`: is it as depressing as the bicycle thieves?
mircea_popescu: antephialtic there's a diference between clueless and stupid.
mike_c: mircea_popescu: was that shorthand for "that's what i'm doing with .lk"? i don't think that works, because the high quality content you influence to go to .lk also ends up in their forum. it's not competition.
antephialtic: BCB: no, he's the glenn beck of bitcoin
asciilifeform: here's another crackpot idea. a very 'slow' mailing list, where it costs 1 btc to post. a few days later, you get it back on the sending addr - if you're nice.
antephialtic: b-a is great, but there is a lot of benefit to a threaded discussion format
mike_c: you are describing b-a. study guide is the wiki.
cazalla: oh ok, that makes sense then asciilifeform
cazalla: how can they learn if they need to be learned to pass the exam prior to accessing the forum?
antephialtic: they are free to hang out on reddit
antephialtic: I'd rather have a forum for the 20% of competent people using bitcoin, than a wasteland for those unwilling or uncapable of learning
antephialtic: cazalla: that should be on the entrance exam
asciilifeform: at one point, i worked on a 'destupidator' (actual working title) - sort of like a 'captcha', but based on the 'raven matrix' iq test.
antephialtic: on basic principles of bitcoin. to eliminate people who aren't capable of learning, and to make sure that people who get in aren't asking the most basic of questions
mircea_popescu: antephialtic the problem with any exam that doesn't also include a firing squad is that it creates a class of niggers.
mike_c: if you want to kill bitcointalk, you need to create a new forum. it will fill with retards eventually, but it would solve the second problem.
mircea_popescu: there are two separate problems here.
mike_c: i think it is admirable to try to provide a path out of there through mpoe-pr, but if they don't want it..
mircea_popescu: was looking for a way out for a while. reducing .org to the status of a lousy scrapper of .lk seems perfect.
mike_c: you are directly supporting bitcointalk by paying someone to create high quality posts there. seems contradictory.
moiety: btctalk needs to become deleteable on the whole
asciilifeform: gentlemen, lol! perhaps the log should stay like this
mircea_popescu: but the political angle is important, that shit must die.
mircea_popescu: i guess they are anyway
mircea_popescu: there was some github
mircea_popescu: it'll autopost to the scampit.
mircea_popescu: just use the .lk thing and be done with it
pankkake: is there a list of moderators?
pankkake: what's odd is how old the message is, too
ozbot: TROLLING 101 | SockPuppet Theatre
pankkake: yet stalking people is ok, as another mod told me
mircea_popescu: i put stuff from the forum in here, read it destupidified in log
mircea_popescu: these words of sorted randomly r they perhaps into sense coallesce through of sortage log method ?
moiety: almost got it there
antephialtic: yeah, is this some kind of silly april fools joke? the log makes it look like this is #bitcoin-yoda
mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu: but were ballads about made miserably they then having cool how failing"
mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu: made cool ballads failing but miserably how then about having they were"
tg2: watch the fireworks
only: thanks, 'the limits of control' it is
kakobrekla: 'The limits of control' as well
Mats_cd03: the raid 2
Mats_cd03: inside man, stasiland, attack the block
pankkake: bitcoin: the movie
Mats_cd03: i guess you could say afghanistan and somalia were vaguely functioning feudal systems in the last few decade
bounce: what, there's still a vaguely functioning feudal system going on?
Mats_cd03: (in the retelling)
bounce: well I s'pose that gave you a bit of a headstart "researching" the bitcoin zoo
mircea_popescu: bounce i have no idea. the entire national pantheon is basically neobee like scammors. ie, various rebels promising independence from x or y or z
mircea_popescu: there's also many cultural factors at play. for instance, in a culture which is fundamentally defeatist and patently insane, like romania's,
mircea_popescu: in that we'll see if in 2015 or 2020 cypruss is above or below the norm
mircea_popescu: i guess we'll actually be deriving some benefit from the ineptly handled neobee shareholder piggybank,
mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah but what if the awareness they raised is "bitcoin is an undependable scamfest"
Jason: Mats_cd03: i came to -assets to share my story of being randomly banned with no explanation and being completely denied support. had my business of been in full swing with square, it would be a rather large problem.
mircea_popescu: interesting argument tho, re "the awareness that won't go away".
Namworld: I probably spew nonsense regularly too anyway. I just let it be unless I feel like debating the topic.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is neobee competition o.o