nubbins`: Namworld: underwater welding is where it's at these days
VanCleef: i think sfi will be the next scam to fall
nubbins`: not sure about where you live, but there's a nation-wide shortage of skilled tradespeople in canada
nubbins`: you know all those idiots driving around in F350 pickups? they did it
mike_c: throw a dart at the mpex security list and invest.
Namworld: My clothes are full of holes.
VanCleef: no money in porn when its free on the internet
thestringpuller: make porn then
VanCleef: thestringpuller cause i dont want to scam people
Namworld: Like, what are people doing? Giving money around to whine against scammers, and when it's not a scam, go "That one is nice. Will leave them my money."
ThickAsThieves: but some people eventually claim their shit
Namworld: Keep the list a few years. It's just a file. Not a problem keeping it.
Namworld: If I harass them for a few months, they eventually reply, "oh yeah, right, why not? I'll take it."
nubbins`: so put a time limit on your next message and wash your hands if they don't reply
jurov: everyone is so accustomed to scam that they don't even think of researching if we don't offer repayment
Namworld: As for most others who lent me smaller amounts... I typically have to run after them for repaying them?
Namworld: TAT must be satisfied. But a few of my larger lenders are going to get pissed. At least I think so? They don't seem to ask/be in a hurry about it a lot.
ThickAsThieves: but the story isnt over yet it seems
pankkake: what made you think it was a scam then?
VanCleef: i remember on the second day of neobee ipo i called it a scamm and tat put me on ignore for trolling
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: you didn't know anything non-public about their financials?
jurov: everyone says to swim against the stream. no one says, make sure you know the direction first
jurov: pankkake no these are supposed to be deep wisdoms
Apocalyptic: anyone knows if the blockr.io guys hang out on IRC ?
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: what if i told you... that your investment went straight into the pockets of cypriot marketing firms?
Mats_cd03: what, you don't think hamsterdam (a la The Wired) would work?
ThickAsThieves: the name was actually just Neo
Namworld: If you make largesses to yourself, you go "Boohoo, I've run out of funds, spending everything on advertising and a big salary to myself, now there's nothing left. I'm sorry. So sad." Like neobee and the like.
nubbins`: everybody's happy except the poor people who aren't criminals!
diametric: nubbins`: Its even better because the crime rarely crosses the boundary of the block because the police and criminals have an informal pact. They don't mess with the gentrified areas, the police don't mess with their shitholes.
diametric: It's pretty incredible to look at. In on block you'll see very expensive homes, rich white people walking expensive toy dogs. Go one block down, and you have thugs peddling herion on the corner and prostitutes blowing dudes in the alley.
nubbins`: something like 1% of the population of st john's is black
Namworld: Otherwise you jeopardize everything.
Namworld: Going to stay like that until I at least repay all my debts. Probably going to stay like that for a while after I repay my debts. You make sure you have no debts and the business is well and you have a nice cushion.
nubbins`: but srsly. there's maybe 40 houses on my dead-end street, property values ranging from $80k to $250k
nubbins`: "making it fit for the gentry"
nubbins`: due to the wonders of gradual gentrification, there are very few "poor areas" in my city larger than a block or so
Namworld: I could probably live better on much less if I moved to another country.
Namworld: Speaking of life quality, by all estimates, I won't be lacking funds in the future. But as long as that's not a reality and is just on paper, my living standards are pretty low. Well according to local standards anyway.
nubbins`: on the bright side, a replacement part is only $25
Namworld: I got hit hard when I joined the forum. Didn't expect what I stumbled upon. It seems everyone are connected with sock puppets. Mostly artifices.
nubbins`: so the power button on my cellular telephone has been working only intermittently these past weeks
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu: no wait not the 80s one
mircea_popescu: almsot as good trollage as the forum on display.
mircea_popescu: article about how there shouldn't be an article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mircea_Popescu&action=history 19kb, updated daily.
pankkake: a movie about scammers; they get investors but everything is faked
mircea_popescu: on the let's lulz @wikipedia angle : article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mircea_Popescu&action=history 12kb, untouched since last month.
chetty: typical of whats being put out as 'science' these days actually
Namworld: Scams aside, if you're not doing any kind of lending/investing, BTC can be very secure and works very well in the digital space for wealth transfer.
Namworld: The forum is like the street, don't invest lots of cash with anyone you meet with good sounding claims.
Namworld: Most of the time, the appearance of being professional, having offices and all is pure artifice and money wasting.
Namworld: Sending Bitcoins to Neobee is like investing cash in the guy screaming on the street corner he's starting a bank. He start by buying pamphlets and distributing them for advertising the business, hyping and taking further cash in.
ThickAsThieves: not adds them
mike_c: ;;create bitbet "The dilbert comic from April 2nd will be posted in b-a more than 10 times"
ThickAsThieves: it also doesnt separate whether those vegetarians became such to help with said health problems
Namworld: The issue is people fail to realize Bitcoin isn't like banks, it's like cash for the digital space.
pankkake: so the study doesn't even even try to separate other factors (i.e. vegetarians being more physically active and health conscious, while non vegetarians includes mcdonalds eating couch potatoes)
ThickAsThieves: the study represents about 31 vegetarians
Namworld: People borrowing/wanting cash for their business/family/whatever. Even friends/family often. You then have to run after the money/never see it again.
ThickAsThieves: chetty read the paper
nubbins`: i really like these "face for face" silver coins
nubbins`: well, i tell ya what. there's this guy, see, and he wants to sell a coin
pankkake: 6BTC is probably the whole ATC market cap!
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i can ask him if he'd accept ATC... what's 6BTC worth of ATC these days, anyway?
mircea_popescu: (i last followed nba cca 1993, cause i was playing some pretty cool simulator for the pc.
pankkake: so, when will there be a gold future on mpex? will it be called pmex? :)
mike_c: while i'm shilling bitbet, these are outrageously good odds on 'yes'. http://bitbet.us/bet/796/an-eastern-conference-team-will-win-the-nba/
mircea_popescu: silver is appealing to poor people in the manner ltc is appealing to kids with gpus
mike_c: insert money into mouth :) http://bitbet.us/bet/617/and-then-there-was-one/
mike_c: just tell them to stay away from havelock, it's not hard.
VanCleef: the whole bitcoin industry
mircea_popescu: because gold is, and there can only be one.
VanCleef: from now on whenver a mainstrea person asks me about bitcoin i'm just going to tell them to stay away from it because its all just bullshit and lies and a pyramid scheme and full of pos scammers
VanCleef: man i'm so sick of scams, i try and do the right thing and not be scammy and support this bitcoin shit but its just full of fucking animals
chetty: I dont think bitcoin has more scams that other things, its just more visible, to us
mircea_popescu: jborkl actually it's mostly automatred now. most chickens in the world touch a human inside the mouth for the first time in their... existence.
jborkl: but that means somedud is out there chocking his chicken 16 billion times to make nuggets
VanCleef: yeh the rally scam
mircea_popescu: exactly. the forum had been negligible btc anyway, for a long time now.
ThickAsThieves: the menstrual cycle of money
mircea_popescu: hence the story of pointless and witless.
mircea_popescu: the collection of dr foreskins, ie, pompous if clueless nobodies, is endless.
VanCleef: they'll always be scams and suckers
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves we said (or moreover, hoped) exactly the same 3-4 times already.
mircea_popescu: jborkl well most of this is farmed, you know ? they're reported anyway, for various regulatory purposes
ThickAsThieves: vancleef what i'm saying is, how much more scamming can there really be
VanCleef: hope the price goes to 0
jborkl: mircea_popescu> The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000 < I wonder how many people taxpayers employed to count all the chickens?
ThickAsThieves: the forum is like 5 guys with 500 accounts
ThickAsThieves: but the audience is gone
mircea_popescu: just like in the old glbse blowup days lol
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, bangladesh and nigeria are in the top 15)
mircea_popescu: The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000
mircea_popescu: well technically there are more chickens too.
ThickAsThieves: so many of them, so few of us
mircea_popescu: it was always about the salvation of the worthy, never about the salvation of the flock as a whole.
mircea_popescu: were it not for bitcoin, i'm sure some elected official or other would have thought this is "prudent".
mircea_popescu: isn't bitcoin great tho ? it empowers me to literaly urinate all over their faces.
ThickAsThieves: the lizards are taking over!
mircea_popescu: it'll be for their own good.
mircea_popescu: so basically "mp is the only solvent entity in bitcoin finance we would like us to spend his money just as we whine about how mean and evil he is" ?
ThickAsThieves: so backwards, this buying of the company concept
ThickAsThieves: "MP should buy Neo and Bee and be the next CEO."
chetty: "but if it weren't for the trolls it appears that it could have still managed."
mircea_popescu: the hopefully final-final restatement of that thing jesus.
mircea_popescu: brunettes make the best blondes.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
VanCleef: like the jizz sock that he is
VanCleef: just a bunch of cowards hiding behind their computers
VanCleef: at least wallstreet and banks take off your pants first before fucking you in the ass, bitcoiners make you wear a pair of jeans first
ThickAsThieves: if it werent for the handful of people not cheating, btc would be much easier to read
mircea_popescu: that's pretty much the end of hte line.
mircea_popescu: that's besides the point.
ThickAsThieves: but if he had the coins lost everything wouold be ok
VanCleef: another bitcoin classic diaster
mircea_popescu: wait. hadn't danny claimed that they had lost nothing on mtgox
Namworld: Herp has a rating agency? He forgot derp in the title for Herp Derp Rating Agency
mircea_popescu: next time when you're out to do "what's best for your fambly" go ask for donations. ceos do what's best for their shareholders.
mircea_popescu: hardly teh point. i dunno why all these scammor dudes imagine that's an argument. yes dude, if we wanted to feed your fambly we'd have just donated you the btc.
Guest17831: also, he says he covered for the locked coins in BF/Gox
mircea_popescu: Guest15829 classical scammer talk. "the scam would have been fine if it weren't for the evil interlopers fud"
mircea_popescu: o look at that, scott adams trying to kaching on things that are happening but he can't be bothered to understand
Guest17831: one thing i dont get, is why he'd be stepping down for death threats, before anyone was worried about the rumors
mircea_popescu: nothing designed for the surprisingly-not-arrested
chetty: mircea_popescu, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.20// when are getting a medal from the foundation for taking the heat?
ozbot: Dilbert comic strip for 04/02/2014 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.
bounce: it's a bit dishonest, really. like the nth level manager proclaiming he did all the work. much rather he'd just admit others did the work, he just make the work effective. which is nothing to sneeze at if done well.
mircea_popescu: bounce so they propose. like you know, the plowing fly proposes its exertions drive the ox.
bounce: well, aren't they the drivers of the economy? so money raked in and tossed out is driving the economy, surely?
bounce: governments tend to do that. but how does the premium between us and eu gov'ts compare?
mircea_popescu: this and other imbalances make it so that the usg can not actually afford to compete in this particular market.
mircea_popescu: i buy at a discount, often significant. they buy at a premium, always significant.
mircea_popescu: the quietly glossed over point being, of course, that a dollar of usg spending does not buy it a dollar of rl value.
mircea_popescu: which brings in an interesting side point : recently the us propaganda press ran a story comparing military spending, showing the us as the sum of europe and other states.
bounce: economists do tend to get a bit hung up on solutions without really getting down to the structure of the underlying drivers
mircea_popescu: it does get complicated real quick just as soon as one tries to take the theoretical model to the actual market
bounce: you're saying the us gov't *cannot possibly* learn?
mircea_popescu: it's part of my evil strategy of preventing the usg from ever mattering in this space.
wywialm: and i believe the 0..inf is never an option, the dumping winners can charge only a monopoly rent afterwards, having erected (rather weak) barriers to entry
mircea_popescu: we're dumping the shit out of high-end btc education in this chan, for instance.
wywialm: but the product differentiation is a good defense against dumping, as it can work only in very simple markets, food and education is not one of them
mircea_popescu: same for all the ff chains.
mircea_popescu: in fact, mcdonalss DOES sell for free in most of the us, it does more business as a proxy for usg welfare than anything else.
mircea_popescu: wywialm it is not dumping the whole sector. even if mcdonald sold for free i wouldn't patronise them. i stll eat at good restaurants.
mircea_popescu: european style towns where commercial and residential zones are not separated are rare in the us
mircea_popescu: this is why the us sucks, basically. it, not having ancient microstructure in place, turned into a sprawl hellhole
wywialm: have a look at education, for example - govt is permanently dumping the sector, there are no expectations to the reversal of the course and yet it doesn't manage to win the whole market
bounce: it's not quite 0..inf but it does happen all the time
mircea_popescu: phase 1 lasts 3-5 years, and is actually evaluated as part of the financing of a new development.
mircea_popescu: it's how supermarkets work, fundamentally, all across the world. they drive out small shops in phase 1, with low prices
wywialm: as a theoretical possiblity - i agree. but empirically, i have never seen it done
mircea_popescu: there does in fact exist *an* economical reason for things to play out that way.
mircea_popescu: yes, but as a model, this is the economical reason you were asking for earlier.
mircea_popescu: and moreover, the entire point of the economy is to close the zero-infinity price window as soon as possible.
mircea_popescu: this will drive new competitors in the market, of crouse, but the system has two major problems :
mircea_popescu: however, if dumping is allowed, then company Y could sell product X for 0. inasmuch as none of its competitors have more money in the bank, they would necessarily go out of business.
mircea_popescu: whoever manages to produce x as defined cheapest wins most of the market.
mircea_popescu: admitting for the sake of argument that competition happens on measurable parameters of defined products, all businesses will normally compete on operational efficiency
mircea_popescu: wywialm let me formalise it for the sake of public discussion.
wywialm: at least partially, and as far as i managed to research it, i believe it's a non-issue, perhaps you could point to something convincing me to believe otherwise?
bounce: basic healt care at any rate. the frivolous stuff, less so. and there's always the risk of glossing over the rare but expensive medical cases
wywialm: and regarding emergency medicine: i agree with mircea_popescu, adding that the most probable explanation for this are large economies of scale and perhaps public good as well
mircea_popescu: bounce there's no solve all, outside of poincarre's.
bounce: so I'll buy that as a vivid example of getting the right knowledge at the right place, but don't buy the form as a solve-all.
mircea_popescu: wywialm you familiar with the dumping issue ?
bounce: heh. guilds have the same problem as, well, anything else that gets power. it tends to become more important to hold onto power (by whichever means) which eventually might come at the cost of the thing they exist for
wywialm: bounce: i can't see any economic justification for things turning that way. The evolution of PT in Poland is a direct proof to the contrary - a few efficient contractors in the bigger cities and between them, successfully coping with ever-increasing regulation
mircea_popescu: (for the exotically curious : parliament passed a law, guy went on tv to say the law fucking sucks, president called in to say well why didn't you tell me! let's iron it out!". it was a sight, the whole thing. )
mircea_popescu: this is pretty much how the guilds ran things, back when european economy actually worked. it's how romania runs emergency medicine, thge guy's name is raed arafat.
mircea_popescu: bounce the only way i see this to be approachable is the medieval method (still used in romania for emergency medicine say) : you hire a boss. he does whatever he wants.
VanCleef: i think SatoshiIsland needs some sort of governence but it should be like a company where you hire people for the positions via very complicated hard test, previous background and experiences and these positions should be interchangable every year and performance based
mircea_popescu: public transportation is perhaps the best way to drive that entire argument.
bounce: or public health. you could provide good basic service to the entire population at a reasonable price (hidden in the tax bill), but if it has to be "market driven" you're certainly not going to get that. and that when it's to everyone's benefit that the workforce is healthy.
mircea_popescu: omfg, this is beyond cute. the derps on tardstalk actually tried to like... fud s.mpoe ?!
bounce: say, public transport. first you end up with lots of PT companies doing their thing and a right jumble it is. then the state steps in and puts it all under one umbrella. N years later it gets a bug up the old bum about privatisation and you end up with lots of little companies again... and worse service to higher cost.
bounce: though clearly enough often enough the government has no clue either way and everyone suffers
bounce: well, you know. there's things that look like economics but are more important in other respects, and so the state might well step in and run the show.
wywialm: but still - i'd opt for a government scandinavian style that is just fiscally opressive but much less tries to mix with the rules
mircea_popescu: which is teh deep reason the western world slid into socialism past century or so.
mircea_popescu: anyway, as technology frees more and more time, people can't resist the temptation to try and feel it with a delusion that they actually matter.
mircea_popescu: the state has absolutely no business in economy at all.
wywialm: you're very right on the govt contracts stuff, but i suppose the regulatory burden is much heavier for the economy than plain old fiscal intervention
mircea_popescu: and for that matter they are well aware of this, hence the entire "conquer education by federal grant" programme past 20 years
mircea_popescu: merely the presence of "government contracts" in the us renders entire sectors state controlled/planned
mircea_popescu: we don't buy that in court, so why would we buy it otherwise.
wywialm: mircea_popescu: great comparison - though, the keynesian would maintain that the girl's always willing, only sometimes too shy to ask
mircea_popescu: well, is .com the relevant tld for trilema ?
turbo_ac100: Does google rank your site worse if I dont have the relevant TLD and do geotargeting only with webmaster tools?
mircea_popescu: btw, someone with a forum account drop a line to salty / the artist
wywialm: well, socialism sometimes vs socialism always is a difference even in principle and not only in quantity - the market is still the default in keynesianism
gribble: You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452
MisterE: Bust out the plasma cutter and cut it open of course... http://news.yahoo.com/bangkok-scrap-workers-killed-opening-suspected-ww2-bomb-102333123--finance.html
VanCleef: ima make a lil list of the last 2 years anyway
wywialm: mircea_popescu: isn't it socialism and not keynesianism? afaik keynesianism is "the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility" but only when there are aggregate demand defficiencies
mircea_popescu: austrian school holds exactly the opposite to be true. back when the us-uk alliance consisted of reagan and thatcher, the exact opposite was widely held in... amusinglyt.... the same economist circles.
bounce: ``Now, whilst some might welcome the reduction in the state caused by a loss of taxation, the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility.'' -- this widely accepted in economists' circles?
mircea_popescu: VanCleef: someone should make a list of all the fails this year << not such a bad idea. http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/ only goes june 2011-dec 2012. there's all of 2013 to cover, plus a chunk of 2014
mircea_popescu: so did neobee finally issue that vaunted first quarterly statement that really shoulda been the third ?
mircea_popescu: Ken` actually they just might.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: but i'm not about to buy a coin off some random noob with no trust ;p <<< ajaahaha the moment we've all been waioting for. nubsy baby, maybe buy it FOR ATC ?!?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: it is always one thing to read a philosophical bit, and another to taste it on one's sorry skin << do tell ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: blurden who are you perhaps the more instructive question.
mircea_popescu: tg2 the problem with your approach is that protocols are designed and implemented by they involved, not by the armchair generals. tis not up to you or whatever random derp on reddit to "draw up guidelines", there's no government of the people in bitcoin. there's government by bitcoin opf the people.
Neil: Also the genesis block was 2,536 times harder than necessary. Which is odd. It held the record for 1430 blocks.
mircea_popescu: zacm: so this is disconcerting to see the lemmings on bitcointalk cheer on us gov action against mpex people. bitcoin community must be eagerly anticipating govcoin i guess << i wouldn't read too much into the derpage of a coupla tards tbh.
cazalla: so lose 10% to cypriot banks, lose the remaining 90% to neo?
BingoBoingo: VanCleef: Is that the thing neo bailed out for no damned reason?
chetty: agreed, that and the derps inventing stuff about MP in trouble
antephialtic: i don't have any money in neo. its just annoying to see another implosion that makes bitcoin look stupid to the rest of the unenlightened population
BingoBoingo: The thing read as though "I wanted to go insolvent on my schedule, but I deposited with people who went insolvent first"
antephialtic: were a white knight to save them, all the existing shareholders would get wiped out anyways
VanCleef: someone should make a list of all the fails this year
antephialtic: he doesn't mention the actual debts of neo&bee
antephialtic: why would anyone want to buy the equity of an insolvent company
VanCleef: scary the amount of power usa still has :/
BingoBoingo: MP's probably safe most places in the world.
VanCleef: he will be safe there
BingoBoingo: This is the problem that happens when Facebook is allowed to IPO and a shitty Facebook game is allow to IPO soon after
VanCleef: they look mint
peterl: I wonder if the line between his money and NEO's money was not clear enough?
BingoBoingo: The thing is he seems to describe it as neo's money
peterl: I just started a new thread for people to continue the discussion. I doubt, however, that he will answer in it.
benkay: "In several cases my changes take the form of a Turing-complete program that dynamically modifies the upstream source code in several attempts until it passes tests. I’m not kidding."
benkay: funny how the telegraph line length clusters around 72