robwhiz22: You have my letter. The cardano is not fit for any purpose today. (But this can change easily.) Why don't you read my letter then.
bounce: well a big name german guy entirely hung up on language, can't remember his name. there's gotta be irony in there somewhere.
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, yes. I opened my to you with: Dear Polimedia, \n In casually researching the Cardano I came across your announcement on Cryptome: \n http://cryptome.org/2013/10/bitcoin-usb-gpg.htm \n Which includes, in part, "Critique of the product welcomed."
mircea_popescu: bounce just about ... half of them ?
fluffypony: benkay: GO like the language, or must we just go?
bounce: oh, who was that philosopher guy with the headcase for exactly that again? or rather, seeing more meaning in language than there possibly can be, neatly reasoning cause to be effect and vv
mircea_popescu: is this related to the cardano in some manner ?
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, when I wrote you I quoted your announcement on cryptome in which you explicitly welcomed letters such as mine. Whether you have any interest in anyhting beyond it, or since abandoned that interest, is up to you to communicate.
mircea_popescu: just, anyone who is [excessively] preocupied with written form and style to the possible detriment of meaning = calophile
bounce: alliterative code. maybe the next scrum.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it just denotes the general preocupation. doesn't have to be a poem
asciilifeform: (i believe that's the english term for it)
mircea_popescu: it's a love of the form of phrase, unrelated to meaning. a fixation with getting aliterations and formal perfection.
fluffypony: probably, I've never heard the word
mircea_popescu: hm i guess im the only one knowing what calophilous is supposed to mean.
bounce: including the thing about warm necrofilia?
mircea_popescu: benkay don't worry, the past two dozen lines were all a setup for me to say "become benkay"
gribble: Lyrics: Dear Departed - Bob Kanefsky: <http://www.songworm.com/lyrics/songworm-parody/DearDeparted.html>; The Happy Haunted Horseshoe at the Magic Kingdom | DIS Blog: <http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2013/10/31/the-happy-haunted-horseshoe-at-the-magic-kingdom/>; The Crackle & The Static | Cadaver Club: <http://www.cadaverclub.com/?page_id=432>
asciilifeform: there was a great soviet cartoon about a kid who hates history class and then gets a time machine
asciilifeform: jurov: may as well go back and zap the fellow responsible for tetraethyl lead in gasoline
mircea_popescu: that stock answer is, join here, build the relationship you seem to imagine you already have, talk after.
jurov: asciilifeform why all the rage.. just finish the damn time machine and force K&R to lisp instead on that PDP
asciilifeform: robwhiz22: what sense would the reply make to the rest of us if we don't know the question?
ozbot: Loper OS ยป The Wisdom of Erik Naggum
robwhiz22: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu has seen a proposal I submitted to polymedia and responded that "The best approach would be to join #bitcoin-assets on Freenode" and sent me a link ("http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=bitcoin-assets if you don't have a client handy") which is what I called an invitation.
mircea_popescu: therer you go asciilifeform. "is mp a psychopath ?!?!?!" "definitely! he aims to destroy our shit!!1"
mircea_popescu: " If you deny people the opportunity to defend something they feel is under threat, however, some people go completely insane with rage and actually believe that you threaten them on purpose and that you willfully seek to destroy something very valuable to them."
mircea_popescu: ce you have nothing to defend, your self-preservation instinct will not activate hitherto unused parts of your brain to come up with reasons and rationalizations for what you have done, you will not be aware that you have been taken for a ride before it is over and you "lost".
mircea_popescu: and get through such experiences. Most people are not willing even to /listen/ to arguments or information that could threaten their comfortable view of their own existence, much less think about it, so when you cannot answer a C programmer's "arguments" that his way of life is just great the way it is, it is a pretty good sign that you let him set the agenda once he realized that his way of life was under threat. Sin
mircea_popescu: Getting C programmers to understand that they cause the computer to do less than minimum is intractable. They would not /use/ C if they understood this point, so if you actually cause them to understand it in the course of a discussion, you will only make them miserable and hate their lives. People are pretty good at detecting that this is a likely outcome of thinking, and it takes conscious effort to brace yourself
asciilifeform: robwhiz22: i imagine you'd have to confess here wtf the 'proposal' is
fluffypony doesn't know the parlance. at all.
benkay: signifying the SAME DAMN THING
benkay: all these made up words
jurov: benaky isn't fructifying the right word?
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu - you wrote that you do not want to PM and that's not likely to change. Could you therefore answer here to the proposal I submitted to Polimedia?
asciilifeform: to avoid having to aim the scope, it would have to be mounted on... the user's crotch level.
benkay: fluffypony: so if there's an idea that's worthless, and the execution is everything, if you've made strides on execution that is a 'moat' in the parlance, ensaftifying your idea.
asciilifeform: for some reason i picture the 'scope' as a gadget a la the MIT roulette cheating machine
mircea_popescu: also catching her nail in the door = temperature.
fluffypony: there you go
nubbins`: we actually buy inks from the company that used to make those color-changing inks
mircea_popescu: maybe they could be free wirth obamacare
nubbins`: once again the public will know when your crotch is sweaty
mircea_popescu: so you know, everyone in the bar knows who to hit on.
mircea_popescu: so the morning after her nails are white, and two weeks later it's bleedin' purple
mircea_popescu: they should totally make these nailpolishes to react to whatever fuck hormones chicks have,
asciilifeform: and what supposedly accounted for their quick disappearance
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: just noticed that...the polish is temperature sensitive gel
mircea_popescu: fluffypony at the rate you're ghoing she's going to be here to cuss us all out in person.
gribble: Deng Xiaoping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping>; Deng Xiaoping Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping_Theory>; Deng Xiaoping - Wikiquote: <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping>
mircea_popescu: you hate girls that are too scatterbrained to buy nailpolish so they end up with hands in different colors ?
fluffypony: but they really are kinda fun
mike_c: but once implementation has begun the idea suddently has value? ok..
fluffypony: mike_c: I agree with that *at the idea stage*
mike_c: if the 'idea is worthless' and the 'implementaion is critical', then why be afraid to discuss the idea no matter what stage you are at.
mircea_popescu: neither, i was just sayin' generally.
mircea_popescu: as the cumrag.
mircea_popescu: this obnoxious pretentiousness where "you" have an idea and x has money and you're now equals is like... dream on, you'll be on sex and the city
mircea_popescu: then, maybe, perhaps, possibly, you actually have a name
mircea_popescu: then maybe they give you the great opportunity to give the manother one. also for free.
mircea_popescu: dude get out. you got no money you're giving your entire idea away entirely for free to the people who have money.
benkay: the best way to make funders comfortable is by demonstrating competence.
mircea_popescu: and i do mean great, not in the sense of "tinker joe thinks this rocks after two beers".
fluffypony: I find this a contentious issue...I agree that ideas are worthless, implementation is critical, but if implementation has already begun and the person seeks counsel/funding how much of that do they make public?
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, certainly you're the boss.
mircea_popescu: nobody notices what the bums do in the holes they inhabit, nobody notices what "ideas" anon ppl "have" etc.
jurov: if its success relies on utmost secrecy then it's not so good idea anyway
jurov: robwhiz22 you are having another super sikrit idea?
mircea_popescu: if you keep pretending like you call the shots i'll simply ignore you.
benkay: a fork immediately after the confirmation, which resolved to a branch in which the solo-conf transaction was not included?
jurov: asciilifeform some considered it dumb from the very beginning. but ended up with "worse is better"-like self-consolations
nubbins`: [15:03:22] <io_error> Who the fuck is nubbins`` and why is he trying to scam me in PMs?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform noob nagum. he thought security theatre was taking too much time in 2000
mircea_popescu: you'rer just hating on their success
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> yes, it's not like france where they just take your whole paycheck and give you a few dollars a week for coffee and cigarettes. << zing lmao. what you say nao pankkake ? huh ? huh ?
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> visual inspection of code is a crappy way to test anyway. << it's good for some things, bad for others, not really optional imo
mircea_popescu: jurov the payout must involve truly heroic effort << no, i'm just being blonde most of the time
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller bitbet ain't paying cause it overpaid last month :D
benkay: ffs include an http at the front of your links BingoBoingo
nubbins`: altho we got our Square reader in the mail yesterday, so we'll accept credit cards at the merch table
nubbins`: pop 'em right into the canals
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: there's more than one way to make an eye pink ;p
benkay: hey nubbins` what did the CBC end up saying instead of dick surgery?
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
Naphex: all gather around
ozbot: Rep Jared Polis (D-CO) Using The Robocoin ATM - YouTube
BingoBoingo: How many times is BTC just going to crash to the same price it was yesterday roughly??? This is catastrophe!!!
pLambert: is the guy who runs bitvps on here?
benkay: you and i both know the only solution is keys on a device you trust and bitcoin.
benkay: i dunno where this went off the rails.
jurov: or your tozny comment was meant ironically from the start?
benkay: customer wants a gun that fires backwards. i say "but it fires backwards!" they say "just build it."
benkay: "smarter" (or more well-capitalized) heads than mine have decided that this thing flies. we just ensure that the parts over which we have authority do what they say on the tin. per asciilifeform's mice and comments on proofs, the stack is ultra complex and its vulnerabilities are beyond our pay grade to even address.
pankkake: it only lasted because the equipment was expensive
pankkake: gsm was designed by people with no real computing experience. don't trust the telephonists for anything
Mats_cd03: ive known for some time the equipment for attacks against gsm has been affordable
Mats_cd03: at the app layer, anyway
jurov: we are just on tthe threshold on gsm baseband exploits
Mats_cd03: give the nerds that need a smartphone something with a concrete expected support lifetime
benkay: as with all installed software, i think it's the user's issue.
Mats_cd03: i guess they're not starving, just homeless
Mats_cd03: if you look in the right places, it can be had
benkay: the approach i expect to see implementers use is passwords + phone auth
benkay: there's an auth path that does away with passwords, but i don't know that anyone's going to implement it.
benkay: don't be too harsh on the guys, they need to throw down another 10-20k on branding and copy.
Mats_cd03: benkay re: tozny...tag line says eliminate the need for passwords, so is this just... auth by phone?
pLambert: benkay: is there any capitla left to fly?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user Musk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=Musk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Musk | Rated since: never
Musk: This kind of news might lead to capital flying out of the country though.
Musk: http://www.theguardian.com/money/shortcuts/2014/apr/09/french-6pm-labour-agreement-work-emails-out-of-office...
Musk: Hey guys are you lazy workers? yes.. then move to france.. its now illegal for employers to contract you after 6PM.
mike_c: yes, it's not like france where they just take your whole paycheck and give you a few dollars a week for coffee and cigarettes.
dignork: benkay, but they tax you only when switching btc to something else, as in barter deal
Musk: benkay Lets all watch Bloomberg t.v the essances of real economic news...
benkay: seems like it'd make more sense if they just taxed you on the acquisition of coins. just like normal income.
benkay: so this irs position where you get taxed on the increase in value of your coins
benkay: in other derpy news: no more wome
Apocalyptic: seriously what kind of spam I get.. moreover the domains are shitty
Apocalyptic: bargain pricing that I thought you guys would like to know about as they
benkay: bounce: re "intuitive" computing: i build this shit all day and only occasionally hate my life. the only time it makes sense to me is when it's not so much a bit of software (software nominally empowering humans to do things they could not before) but a tool (in the sense of a hammer, used to do a specific thing).
benkay: my NSA theory?
Shakespeare: benkay, the issue (and likely reality) I see with your NSA theory is that it would echo to all versions ever
jurov: djb just threw it all out and made his own from the ground up
mike_c: isn't 'thousands of eyes' always the flawed argument why open source software is safe?
benkay: mircea_popescu:BingoBoingo: So... what Open source alternatives are there to OpenSSL which aren't as much of a bitch to read? << this is actually a very large, and very open problem. << http://golang.org/pkg/crypto/tls/, seems to be about 8kloc
Mats_cd03: and the part where thousands of eyes have suddenly started running diffs against repos?
mike_c: i had this thought last night. if i was the nsa, and i had injected this awesome new backdoor into 1.0.1f, and i was really anxious for everyone to upgrade right now.. I would publicize my outdated backdoor called heartbleed.
gribble: Shall be Delivered | The Whet: <http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered/>; Chatper 14 - Wheat Futures - CME Group: <http://www.cmegroup.com/rulebook/CBOT/II/14/14.pdf>; Chapter 14B - Mini-Sized Wheat Futures - CME Group: <http://www.cmegroup.com/rulebook/CBOT/II/14B/14B.pdf>
jurov: pLambert: her blog is named The Whet
benkay: (f)Immediately upon publication of each Statement of Profit and Loss MPOE/MPEx will pay to shareholders as dividends a fraction of no less than 100% (one hundred percent) of the Net Profits, if any.
benkay: (e)Mircea Popescu solemnly promises and warrants that complete and accurate Statements of Profit and Loss for each Reporting Month will be published by him no later than by the fifth day of the new month. Under exceptional circumstances and for good cause the publishing of the Statements of Profit and Loss can be deferred no more than once in a calendar year so that the Statement of Profit and Loss of one month is published together
jurov: the payout must involve truly heroic effort
jurov: he every month either forgets or makes a mistake
thestringpuller: so did bitbet but it hasn't paid yet either
pLambert: just wondering, the report came out a few days ago ...
mike_c: "Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus have a sword fight."
Musk: for the love of dumplings.
gribble: I was right, you were wrong. Again. Feel the burn. pe Trilema - Un ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/i-was-right-you-were-wrong-again-feel-the-burn/>; Decembrie 2010 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2010/12>; Oda Superbiei pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/oda-superbiei/>
mircea_popescu: doth not exist in any other language. except, of course.... murican.
MisterE: the pronunciation nags at me heh
fluffypony: we're at the VertCoin stand, so you can go look at our stuff in person
fluffypony: who's going to the Crypto Currency Convention in NY?
mircea_popescu: keonne you can always ask teh people after the conference.
mircea_popescu: here, i gave up trying to post the shit in irc, made a blogpost instead.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: oh I misunderstood the "ipad ftw." comment
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: what do you use for IRC on the iPad? Colloquy?
mircea_popescu: actually, if anyone cares to explore this topic, i've wtf'd my foreign slaves with "filantropica", a romanian movie of the 90s. pretty much a slice of life, could as well be a documentary.
mircea_popescu: which goes back to my original genderless soup comment : they're not better about the problems, they just avoid them more.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yep, but the idea persists
joecool: ah, yeah just looked it up, it has the advertising clause that makes it incompatible with GPL without an exemption
fluffypony: the problem is that the women-as-sex-objects view among native African males leads to some weird crap
mircea_popescu: well "women" in the traditional sense hardly exist in the newer generation. it's pretty much a genderless soup
fluffypony: the younger generation is better with that
mircea_popescu: well most people alive, or historically existing had the same view.
fluffypony: but traditionally speaking women are not viewed as equals, so the men can just do whatever they want
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah, you can't minimise it, but it's a problem in the townships and villages and not so much in the suburbs
mircea_popescu: " IRC may not seem very asynchronous, but it is" << actually, it's ... multisyncronous. pretty much the only mental space that readily comprehends irc flow is the sort that spent a lot of time doing debugger stepping.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: Plettenberg Bay, along the Garden Route
mircea_popescu: "I the spirit of #heartbleed is anyone else interested in -assets fantasy baseball on yahoo?"
mircea_popescu: yeah was in the log earlier.
BingoBoingo: I the spirit of #heartbleed is anyone else interested in -assets fantasy baseball on yahoo?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: "Besides, if Silicon Valley can proselytize about cloud country and dividing California into six pieces, why can't their political enemies engage in similar flights of fancy about the world as it currently exists? " << They can't
mircea_popescu: they don't work, but unless we build a huge broom somehow...
mircea_popescu: i would say the same thing explains the longevbity of the thing as explains the longevity of soviet satellites : they're still in orbit.
BingoBoingo: Explains the longevity of the Bitcoin Foundation, though the low rate of activity there is telling
mircea_popescu: if they didn't it'd have long disappeared.
mircea_popescu: people like it in the butt, what.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It is just amazing how much justification goes on to deny the self is being swindled
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol. i hope they make a name for it and put it in wikipedia. something like a DAB, or something.
mircea_popescu: the good old == vs = bug :D
BingoBoingo: People stumbling into the superiority of mutual betting https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ratings-for-all-the-bitcoin-sports-books.252942/page-26#post-5839153
Naphex: and some of the scheiner warnings https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/the_nsa_is_brea.html
ozbot: The Linux Backdoor Attempt of 2003
Naphex: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/the-linux-backdoor-attempt-of-2003/ for those who still remember
mircea_popescu: the implanting ends*
mircea_popescu: this is an implant not an error. at what level in the process the implanting starts and cluelessness takes over is still unclear.
dexX7: hehe.. no i mean.. people make errors, that's for sure, but sometimes one would say "you'd need to be very, very stupid, do to an error of this kind and it's likely no one sane would ever do something like this". and i'm wondering, if this is the case here
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, of course the possibility exists that the sun stops totally for a measurable period of time, but...
mircea_popescu: but hence the solar cycles etc.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo funny factoid : the sun fusion is not unlike mining. it could in principle be the case a finite interval goes without any emission.
BingoBoingo: How often does the sun just stop fusion for a few minutes to catch a breath
dexX7: or rephrased: was it placed there to be exploited by some party?
mircea_popescu: it's larger than the cookie monster, and that thing had the advantage of there only being about 50 computers total.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're looking for more of a perspective thing : this is without a doubt the largest vulnerability ever reported in the history of vulnerabilities.
dexX7: but the server's private key is usually not exchanged, i think?
BingoBoingo: Pretty much this is the worst of all cases that the mainstream security community would have supposed
mircea_popescu: if you get the server's keys you can a)impersonate the server and b) decrypt all its traffic, thaty you previously stored.
dexX7: hey i'm still thinking about the heartbleed stuff and was wondering: how could one - in theory - do something nefarious with this? user sessions aside, but what else is flying around there?
mircea_popescu: the exact car i'd have imagined.
mircea_popescu: mebbe Diablo-D3 has a point there...
mircea_popescu: otherwise, fucking kills.
fluffypony: Otherwise it's just asking for trouble
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: Btc jam had the option, I figured it wasn't unheard of for loans with a term of more than like 2 weeks
mircea_popescu: i did notice it. i discarded it, too, cause who the hell is giving you a fiat loan.
fluffypony: keonne: Meh, it was a year ago, and I can understand mircea_popescu not noticing the USD linked loan
keonne: fluffypony: props to not being a butthurt bitch in the comments
fluffypony: I was...more naive then
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: What was his collateral though? And did eh link it to the usd price?
mircea_popescu: he got really buttreamed, but he did pay off afaik, and one of the few to do so.
mircea_popescu: you know there's a guy who tried this in 2012 for similar reasons ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: ok but as mentioned in the original post, the issue was not solvency or collateral - it was a brief experiment to see if I could get a secured loan at a better rate than I could locally
BingoBoingo: The Buttcoiner mentality critiqued long ago by someone else
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Easier to tell her to submit http://trilema.com/2013/they-really-are-buttcoins-nao/
BingoBoingo: However the Hoover lives on in US 3 letter culture in that alcohol is more poisonous to many of those factions than coke (which the CIA loves for obvious reasons)
BingoBoingo: I the US the Hooverites paited him as the devil, worse than Castro, but he gave Russia its booze back.
BingoBoingo: Essentially J E Hoover was more damaging to the US than Brezhnev could have ever been to the Soviet republics
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Litecoin miners want all asics to die. The want to only mine when not playing starcraft and mining wow gold.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bitcoinpete and so they want to just keep changing the algos and dream on.
BingoBoingo: This transition in the US really was a big thing between Pershing and Lyndon Johnson
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bitcoinpete it's even been announced, some fork. basically they want to fork it because htey perceive they should be given more of this world than the ycan take by themselves, for themselves, and they perceive it's unfair that just as soon as an algo of division is established, better people get more than them.
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete: and how is doge still even around? first teh nascar, now this merged-mining noise << it's only "still around" in the sense of noise. like you know, the dead aren't really dead if you remember them :D
BingoBoingo: The Robert Hansen puritain to a fault type though at the higher levels of government security organizations is not that rare in the US though.
BingoBoingo: I've only met one person who worked at DISA though and they were shipped to London after racking up more DUIs int he states than Mr Bond himself.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In the US in any niche there is always a puritain contingent of some pretending to bees. Generally the higher in any gov niche the more they dominate.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it was obviously a jab at a roomfull of potheads telling the sober guy that "he doesn't understand how the pretty colors work"
BingoBoingo: The world just is.
BingoBoingo: My hypothesis on why Putin can't understant how the world works though is that the world just doesn't work because it has no benefit from doing so.
mircea_popescu: this sounds like the fucking pleistocene all oer again.
mircea_popescu: afaik the fsb still by and large is.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i wonder what % of the us agency agents are actually drug free. not pretend-free, not pass the test free, but actually, as a lifestyle.
mircea_popescu: i guess may account for why putin "doens't understand how the world works".