benkay: hey mircea_popescu i think i'm misreading your mpex tech stuff article - web servers have a copy of the db to fulfill stat requests?
fluffypony: reading some of the stuff I contributed is painful
MGK: yes the brass 2013
fluffypony: bounce: or wait, I'm talking about the old South African zine called forbidden knowledge, not sure if you were just saying that in general
fluffypony: bounce: fk was the shiznat
bounce: back in the days of 'zines over modem and even the odd book with virus listings from the library. forbidden knowledge!
asciilifeform: fluffypony: generally. reading, rather than writing.
bounce: borland turbo C also had a similar "basm" thingy, so no need to fsck around with hexstrings. tp was just the thing we used because it was easy to use. indeed, easier than tc.
mircea_popescu: i haven't since the days i was looking through files to spot stoned.b
asciilifeform: i'm one of the lucky (unlucky?) folks who uses x86 asm at day job.
mircea_popescu: there i've asm'd.
mircea_popescu: but the difference is purely acaemic.
dignork: bounce, there was a debug.exe just to write .COM, i think it was still supplied in winXP
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you want the compiler to asm for you, vs. having to drop in a hex string and function ptr to it, compiler has to understand inline asm.
bounce: and can relatively simply be put on a 360k floppy; just drop the bgi stuff from the std lib collection. compiler, stdlib, 3rd party editor. off you go. that just doesn't work so well with C.
fluffypony: borland really screwed things up over the years
robwhiz22: The forward includes both emails.
dignork: fluffypony, and Ralph Brown's INT list, although there was some nice interactive help system as well
robwhiz22: I used the address from the cryptome announcement, which you responded to once suggesting I talk to you here.
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, you said earlier you did not see my two emails to you. I forwarded both to you now - did you get them?
fluffypony: asciilifeform: I remember trading copies on stiffy disk because the Internet wasn't as common, and then eventually in like 1998/1999 downloading my first "current" release
asciilifeform: anyone remember the 'magical decompiler' somebody planted in 'swag'? (actually the 'gold bug' virus)
mircea_popescu: i remember dlh, the useful game info collection.
fluffypony: who remembers Swag, the Turbo Pascal code snippets collection?
jurov: if there was a cool DOS game built on lisp
fluffypony: omg that and the tank game
mircea_popescu: i kept editing the code to do weird shit. was loads of fun
asciilifeform: phun phact. msdos 'edit' is actually 'qbasic', with the basic ineptly commented out - in such a way that the code is still buried in the binary.
[\]: I still remember seeing a=a+1 for the first time
bounce: back when, no ubiquitous 'net, not even a modem, and no connections to extoll the virtues of lisp
mircea_popescu: i actually liked qbasic. dunno why all the hate.
asciilifeform: there were many lisps of various descriptions for msdos
fluffypony: jurov: you think that's bad, I started on GWBASIC and then progressed to Pascal
mircea_popescu: jurov if you stole msdos to the degree you thought it was free
jurov: all these high horses
jurov: because nobody could be bothered to make free list for msdos
mircea_popescu: "This brings me to the core of what I dislike about Wolfram's book. It is going to set the field back by years. On the one hand, scientists in other fields are going to think we're all crackpots like him. On the other hand, we're going to be deluged, again, with people who fall for this kind of nonsense. I expect to have to waste a lot of time in the next few years de-programming students who'll have read A New Kind of
fluffypony: asciilifeform: the seed is a digital breathalyser...works best when you're drunk;)
jurov: robwhiz22: google the logs for hookers+microphone
robwhiz22: jurov, is there a write-up somewhere?
fluffypony: robwhiz22: the rng project is basically based on buttcoin:sharpie density
gribble: Wilbur Glenn Voliva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Glenn_Voliva>; Wilbur Glenn Voliva visits New Orleans, Louisiana in 1912 ...: <http://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm/ref/collection/LWP/id/7330>; $5,000 for Proving the Earth is a Globe | Modern Mechanix: <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/5000-for-proving-the-earth-is-a-globe/>
asciilifeform: as if an rng were a nuke, or any other rarity
jurov: robwhiz22: it's often discussed here, if you'd actually read the logs
asciilifeform: how many pictures of the damn thing have to be posted
mircea_popescu: mike_c next time you want to ask me why the cardano isn't done by xmas...
bounce: no, he is a dog. this is the internets.
jurov: or a pig... there's actually a book about that
jurov: i did not read further
robwhiz22: BingoBoingo, I didn't critique it. I don't know anything about any RNG project. I was just answering mircea_popescu's question, in which he quoted "and conversely objects which pass randomness tests must have high algorithmic complexity" and hten said "not familiar with the 'complex objects' in question.".
asciilifeform: i'd also like to add, for the edification of future spammers, that blatant sockmuppetry (switching handles every week) does not add credibility.
BingoBoingo: robwhiz22: If you dunno they application how can you be competent to critique it?
asciilifeform: ok, for everyone who didn't catch it the first time i posted it,
robwhiz22: And more to the point I don't really know the application. It's, quote-unquote "out of scope"
BingoBoingo: robwhiz22: If you thing your solicitation reveals flaws, public disclosure is the responsible thing to do
mircea_popescu: the guy does declare he's trained as a phys, so i guess rank cluelessness about math may be excused
mircea_popescu: me either, but as described it's scandalous.
asciilifeform: not familiar with the 'complex objects' in question.
robwhiz22: fluffypony, more importantly, it's not like I did the entire project on spec (Google 'on spec' or 'spec work').
bounce: pretty cool he found it out himself, even if it turned out later he wasn't the first.
bounce: nothing said the writer got beaten nor he didn't abandon the notion he wasn't the first when told
fluffypony: robwhiz22: why don't you just put the docs online for all to see/download? Or PasteBin it? You've been given permission to do so, after all.
jurov: bah, even these who do
mircea_popescu: kids that have no experience with beatings have no conceivable incentive to abandon the notion they invented jordan normal form.
mircea_popescu: i want this entered into the record of proof for the importance of beating schoolchildren.
mircea_popescu: "My teacher, more patient than I would be with adolescent arrogance, gently informed me that it was a standard technique, in any book on linear algebra, called "reduction to Jordan normal form", after the man who discovered it in the 1800s. "
mircea_popescu: also, google does not return the wayback machine for a "web history" query.
mircea_popescu: the whole thing sounds like tom sawyer's aunt.
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, I've just clicked 'forward all' and reforwarded you my proposal and follow-up email. Please check the mail and I would very much appreciate a response. I feel I've given adequate time for your consideration.
asciilifeform: bounce: well there was (still is...) a wealthy american crackpot who claimed cellular automata as his invention, suing anyone who publicly disagreed
bounce: re reinventing the wheel, wasn't there a medico recently that got a paper published essentially reinventing calculus (and naming it after himself, naturally)?
robwhiz22: fluffypony, I doubt I am on ignore. He began to answer me but had to go. The other day, I had to leave earlier.
mircea_popescu: (joke beingthat the militsya was an obsolete institution, and famously the people it employed could not write)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform romanian canonical equivalent is "tu crezi ca te cauta militia pe messenger". ie, you think the militsya is pursuing you through im.
bounce: robwhiz22: the best way for you to stop running around in circles is stop running around in circles. drop the text in a pastebin and share. you have permission to do this already.
asciilifeform: basic idea, desperado who isn't wanted for anything but thinks he's 'hot on the run'
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, the whole proposal - I can email again if you have trouble fining the previous emails. There 2 I think, of which you answered the second one inviting me here, and one follow-up one.
asciilifeform: 'The "Elusive Joe" (Russian: Неуловимый Джо) has become an ironic nickname in Russia for various difficult-to-find persons (not necessarily unimportant ones). It is suggested that the nickname and the joke originated from a 1923 satirical novel An Elusive Enemy. American Novel by Mikhail Kozyrev (ru:Козырев, Михаил Яковлевич) which contained a funny song about a Joe who was e
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user robwhiz22: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=robwhiz22 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=robwhiz22 | Rated since: never
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, did you 1) find my proposal among your emails now? 2) do you have an answer? I submitted it with the request that you review and answer within three business days, which I thought was reasonable.
bounce: but the cake is a lie.
mircea_popescu: in general one can't be both. whenever aristocrats were forced to be courtiers historically, they lost their aristocracy, and the state collapsed
mircea_popescu: the sort that opposed the french and the germans, or the germans and the russians, or the french and the russians
mircea_popescu: lots of little kingdoms don't necessarily war each other, and moreover the wars of little kingdoms are not at all like the wars of national-socialist statal machines,
bounce: not true. any high concentration of power without proper management tends to bring lots of little kingdoms, warring each other. I'm told the pettiest squabbles can be found in academia.
fluffypony: which is gang warfare territory in the Cape Flats
fluffypony: but something ridiculous like 80% of the murders occur in Lavender Hill
fluffypony: we're a small part of the population (relatively), and a lot of the murders are gang related
mircea_popescu: i had bought the same arguments, omg sa is terrible.
mircea_popescu: well then okay.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I'm talking specifically about South Africa - our murder rate is mentioned in the article, ~30 per 100k vs Honduras at ~90 per 100k
bounce: compared to the conspiring, deceit, backstabbing, betrayal, "white" lieing, bald faced lieing, and all that, happening among the most cultured of any population, traditionally the aristocrats and like court dwellers, that's outright friendly and truthful.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah, I was quite surprised, the ex-pats have beaten the "murder rate in South Africa is the highest in the world" speech into everyone's heads we're starting to believe it ourselves
bounce: the student club had a rule that you couldn't actually lie. ie answers must be truthful. but you could refuse to answer on grounds of the question being too direct. add in some rules that made buying the entire bar population beers both very easy to do and hard to figure out for the barman... well, it's a student club, whaddaya expect?
asciilifeform: in some places, savage brute is someone who picks his nose - in others, one who never heard of differential equations.
fluffypony: they do it on a "murders per 100k people" basis
Apocalyptic: ^ that's the meaning that comes to mind first to me
ozbot: Americas overtake Africa as region with most murders | World news | theguardian.com
fluffypony: for the low, low price of 10 BTC
robwhiz22: You kind of disappeared the other day. I'm hoping you had a chance to read what I'd written you earlier. If so could you tell me a decision please?
mircea_popescu: the usg moving into cattle rustling
mircea_popescu: the epic resilience of stupidity.
truff1es: says the person who wants to beat people to submission
mircea_popescu: <truff1es> just wait til the sillyness washes away << funny how on the spot this guy is. since forever the strategy of the mentally defective has been, just wait until the cool people get exhausted, and try to rebuild socialism then!
fluffypony: yeah I use the "stove is hot" analogy often
mircea_popescu: such as, putting your hand in the flame may in principle do all sorts of cool things, like charge your phone battery
mircea_popescu: fluffypony making mistakes should be encouraged in a narrow field : that where we don't know what the mistakes are. in the fields where we already know, they should not be.
chetty: fluffypony, that is I think, the definition of learning
thestringpuller: no experimenting wiht production services, fucking get managers and shit. perhaps it's about time for another tally of the BTC losses due to scams and icompetence
thestringpuller: you shouldn't make mistakes with other peoples money
fluffypony: although making mistakes *and learning from them* should be encouraged, no?
thestringpuller: most people seem to do things wrong, get told so, ignor as MP points out, then they run head first into concrete and complain about how they have brain damage
chetty: thestringpuller, and that hurts too
truff1es: just wait til the sillyness washes away
mircea_popescu: idiots on the forum also think they know better. the reason they think so is because they don't know what they don't know
mircea_popescu: problem is how the fuck would you distinguish.
mircea_popescu: not according to him, but what the fuck does he know.
mircea_popescu: benkay im sure all of goethe's teachers were all supercool and worthy dudes.
benkay: mircea_popescu: the teachers'd need to be worth attending to.
goonsamchi: lol. my not eating would not affect the people in africa
mircea_popescu: this is nothing less than the point of existence : for you to drive lesser versions out of existence, or for them to drive oyu.
fluffypony: goonsamchi: there are starving people in Africa that would disagree
mircea_popescu: of course it does. fucking world is constructed so your existence is built out of the death of your siblings.
chetty: well there is a difference between having an opinon, and expressing it
mircea_popescu: no, but the discussion is metaphisics, and being listened to qualifies him to speak./
goonsamchi: you should be allowed to do anything you want unless it directly infringes on the rights of others.
truff1es: beat some sense into them, thats it!
fluffypony: goonsamchi: where do you draw the line? if a wildly popular personality says that everyone should kill themselves, and then a bunch of people do, should the person who expressed their "opinion" be entitled to it?
mircea_popescu: we'd perhaps have had something like 58 goethes coming out of there, this year alone.
mircea_popescu: had these same fuckwits been beaten to shit for daring to open their mouths when their teachers were speaking,
mircea_popescu: seems to me allowing fuckwits to have "opinions" has turned the us of a into a monoculture of sheep who all think the same.
goonsamchi: not allowing people to be incorrect just leads to a monoculture of sheep who all think the same. even if they're right, there's still a lack of diversity
mircea_popescu: but i am outright denying her the right to air dumbassery under the guise that "she's entitled to an opinion"
mircea_popescu: nobody is disputing the woman's right to be as fucking wrong as she possibly can get away with.
mircea_popescu: goonsamchi there's a difference between controlling your own life and having opinions tho.
goonsamchi: i believe in individual liberty and the right for people to be wrong
goonsamchi: no, i think people should be allowed to control their own lives
ozbot: Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science - David H. Freedman - The Atlantic
goonsamchi: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/?single_page=true
mircea_popescu: goonsamchi it's not a good idea to have "opinions" on matters you have not the authority to have opinions on.
chetty: most people are wrong,most of the time
goonsamchi: best to have diverse opinions, instead of a nation of sheep all taking the scientists' word for it, never considering the possibility that someone could be wrong
fluffypony: the red wedding: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/world/Nigerian+child+bride+forced+into+marriage+poisons+meal/9723504/story.html
gribble: USS Monocacy (PG-20) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Monocacy_(PG-20)>; Amazon.com: Pignose PG-20 PG-20 a/c powered amplifier: Musical ...: <http://www.amazon.com/Pignose-PG-20-powered-amplifier/dp/B0006SMY7S>; Part# PG-20-160Q: <http://www.clippard.com/part/PG-20-160Q>
benkay: i'd like to meet the person who's willing to test that 'likely' in the states, or finance the establishment of caselaw.
benkay: risk, it would likely be considered a forward and be excluded from the
benkay: (and not their cash equivalent), and is being used by a party to manage price
akstunt600: Maybe bitcoin really needs to get cracked down on for it to thrive the way we want
bounce: shh. lemme admire the sensibility a bit more.
bounce: "why not just ignore all the spam in your inbox?" "why not just ignore that DDoS coming in?" -- such sensible questions.
mjr_: as in the IRC command, not attention wise
mjr_: to see yourself in the mirror
mjr_: similar to the whole "XBT" thing
mjr_: just part of the group of people who think that they understand the standards committees and how the real world works
mircea_popescu: mp, lord of the fundamental questions.
mjr_: in the real world, symbols are mapped onto many currencies
mircea_popescu: bounce no moar like BD, the new USD
bounce: USB, the new USD
bounce: and let people think it's the new USD?
mircea_popescu: not like the usd will survive anyway.
mjr_: i have to try and get people to shut the fuck up and open their eyes and see how the world works
fluffypony: benkay: what about a backwards Euro symbol, then it looks kinda like a monkey butt
mjr_: phones can currently type the bitcoin symbol...i don't even know how you would convince apple or motorola to add a keyboard
mjr_: basically i think i slam dunked the argument against symbol change
mjr_: am I safe in assuming that everyone here thinks trying to change the bitcoin symbol is stupid and a waste of time?
benkay: still going to burning man with the shreminal?
fluffypony: what is annoying is when the media talks about Bitcoin's "surprising resiliance despite being declared dead"
fluffypony: every time it's tanked I've bought on the downswing
mircea_popescu: fluffypony sure, except we've seen it three times already : the people who are butthurt during upswings because they were left out still don't buy during downswings because now it's more like "Haha! it's dead!"
dignork: mircea_popescu, sure, but so far bitcoin-otc based on WOT is the closest to OTC that I've seen so far
mircea_popescu: dignork otc as a concept. "over the counter"
truff1es: ppl can change their minds
mircea_popescu: depends who they are.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the point of 2014.
mircea_popescu: no btc/fiat exchangesd for them. herp.
asciilifeform: wonder at what point exchanges will survive primarily on payola from whoever they are stoolies for, rather than commissions
mircea_popescu: they have failed.
mircea_popescu: the various fiat jurisdictions had ~5 years to get their shit together and suck our cock enough to acquire this revenue stream.
mircea_popescu: the future belongs to otc trades of btc.
mircea_popescu: fuck the local exchange.
fluffypony: even though I keep telling them to
fluffypony: I have a lot of people I know that prefer to buy from me instead of buying on the local exchange
asciilifeform: at this point, even the most threadbare engineer is probably just buying coin from his coworkers
mircea_popescu: so i guess the scammers get a whole new market now.
benkay`: there is a bit of a discount for magical bitcoins
mircea_popescu: they've painted themselves in a corner, basically. if all you wanna do is buy 20 bucks wortha btc to "have some", no way in fuck do you go through all the caudine forkland of "send us a pic with you holding a seal". odds are you don't even have a phone.
asciilifeform: (or this happened ages ago, and i'm just the last one to notice)
mircea_popescu: "because the exchanges are less and less relevant" ?
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=C.O.F. | cof. Cum On Face - Sexual act often used when describing services offered by an escort. The escort I saw last night provided cof in addition to bbbj and fs.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cim | Upload a picture of Cim. 2. cim. Cum In Mouth. Meaning ejaculation of the man's sperm into anothers mouth. This may or may not be followed by the swallowing ...
mike_c: but the new cat photos captcha should prevent that.
nubbins`: educating -otc on the perils of referring to cash-in-mail as CIM
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves dvsdude benkay` what the shit, letterman was supposed to be a comic neh ? colbert is now funny ?
daybyter: I already got most of the stuff running on desktop.
benkay`: and you don't have the budget to pay for its production?
benkay`: what's the app?
keonne: daybyter: sorry man, i really dont have the time
nubbins`: i was briefly excited when i saw the "recent changes" page until i took a closer look :D
keonne: current i am redoing the blockchain android wallet, which is why i as asking earlier if anyone used it
daybyter: I want to create an android app and look for help with the UI.
keonne: The only coding I do is a very hobbyist hack job at python
daybyter: maybe I'm just the first one who had this idea? :-)
nubbins`: why reinvent the wheel!
nubbins`: i googled everything back in the days of writing code ;D
daybyter: I used antenna back in the days of j2me projects.
daybyter: add android.jar to the required libs?
fluffypony: keonne: I was about to say the same thing
keonne: daybyter: not being snarky but dont all android devs have to know java? i thought that was part of the deal.
nubbins`: it could be argued that you just picked the wrong provider to start with
keonne: in UK i go to the corner shop
keonne: and i have unlimited 4g data in both the US and Europe
keonne: how much is the contract per month?
nubbins`: either way.