midnightmagic: Are they planning some kind of XP-like forever-support?
dignork: turbo_ac100: open source windows clone? I have to admit, I looked at their source code once, while trying to figure out some windows undocumented functionality, but rewriting outdated OS, what for?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 23 hours, 52 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <BingoBoingo> fluffypony: That'd be Busch III, first season there was in 2006
fluffypony: I'm forced to dabble, so the nature of it eludes me
cgcardona_: but Tim Berners Lee is one of the most humble people that I've me who've accomplished that much IMO
cgcardona_: one of the most passionate group of people I've ever met but legendary red-tape
cgcardona_: got `background-color` in CSS and `backgroundColor` in the DOM
cgcardona_: got the w3c and ecma standardizing different languages
cgcardona_: seemingly better seperation of concerns though you still need to toggle classes with JS to trigger them so it's not entirely cleanly seperated.
cgcardona_: makes the code much more terse and easier to mentally digest IMO
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: ;;later tell bitcoinpete hey didja know that if you have an avatar.png at the root of your domain it'll show up on trilema as your avatar?
TestingUnoDosTre: There was another person who's bet was submitted at the same time as mine. Most likely them
TestingUnoDosTre: I would rather many more herpers and derpers flock to the site so I can take their hard earned btc
TestingUnoDosTre: I take it to the chat, not wherever you guys were looking
jurov: kakobrekla: you in the bar or where?
fluffypony: she's hiding the privkeys in her snatch
kakobrekla: because she has the btc ofc.
fluffypony: why do they think it'll make a difference calling his wife?
ThickAsThieves: "So bitbet joins the list of sxam sites. Moderators arbitrarily declaring in-time bets as late."
ThickAsThieves: Revelations aside, nothing has changed. The NSA monitored communications well before Edward Snowden leaked documents to Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. It has long had the power of the subpoena to compel a business to hand over records and documents.
ThickAsThieves: "You probably didnt stop flying because you have to go through airport screeners, take off your shoes, let your laptop be X-rayed and your luggage possibly rummaged through by security personnel. You shouldnt close your business either. Instead, level with your customers, tell them what the government is capable of doing, and allow them make up their own minds as to whether to do business with you or not.
kakobrekla: 11:11.29 ( +jurov ) many ppl atound here write it as "bitcoint" < same here, but 'bitcoind' but they are not meanin the daemon.
HeySteve: I believe the most expensive item yet trading for btc
ThickAsThieves: or ask the person to sign properly if it's important
fluffypony: HeySteve: so mention at the outset of the article that the quotes may be unsubstantiated because of reasons mentioned above?
fluffypony: HeySteve: it depends - if you're trading with them then they generally have to auth; whilst you can check with nickserv if they have enforce on and are identified Freenode have said that it's possible NS passwords were leaked coz of heartbleed
ThickAsThieves: this also goes in hand with mp's past comments on advising to make mistakes people havent made already, thereby adding to the trove of things we know won't work
jurov: HeySteve: look no futher that to ThickAsThieves here
ThickAsThieves: fluffypony:on the topic of stupidity - you mentioned in a post that clever people learn by observation, and stupid people learn by direct experience...but I'm not sure if I agree that every lesson *can* be learnt by observation // well, NEW experiences can't be learned by observation, generally
HeySteve: speaking of due diligence, what is the WoT etiquette on a big name who doesn't wish to auth?
jurov: but they haven't headr at all
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=due+diligence | Due Diligence is a term used for a number of concepts involving either the performance of an investigation of a business or person, or the performa...
ThickAsThieves: maybe they are hedging
mircea_popescu: kinds funny how contrarian people are in their betting.
fluffypony: oh I miss the goxlag days
gribble: assbot, you better behave or it's the ass boot camp for you matey!
mircea_popescu: ;;echo assbot, you better behave or it's the ass boot camp for you matey!
mircea_popescu: we're like a polity over here, and assbot is the bureaucracy. we can pass whatever resolutions we want...
ThickAsThieves: weird, the first comment after you upped me didnt get thru
mircea_popescu: i was just about to say, people think they can do due diligence, but universally they can not. however, there's going to be a living to be made in the future for those who actulaly learn to.
mircea_popescu: there's all these fucktards that imagine derping about how saying nigger is bad will suddenly qualify them to opine on matters.
fluffypony: lol - "Herp Rating Agency is an initiative born out of the need for due diligence in the Bitcoin ecosystem.", but he gave Neo & Bee a "Buy Rating" a month ago
fluffypony: and whilst everyone complains about it, you get to see why it's there
fluffypony: I must say, the one good thing about having spent a few years at a listed corporate is that you see all the red tape and regulatory crap
fluffypony: everyone "started a company" in their twenties, it's just that when I did nobody would've invested in it (even if I'd asked)
mircea_popescu: like the crinkle guy, except in fiat they don't let dorks trade on the company funds.
mircea_popescu: yeah. usually the painful reality being that one's, you know, 17.
HeySteve: I'm watching a good film about a man who believes himself to be Sherlock Holmes, often the delusion is rooted in denial of some painful reality
mircea_popescu: incidentally, read the old pirate stuff, exactly the same broken sort of personality.
mircea_popescu: the rent becomes 90% of all your expenditure, and wd! you've created a new us.
mircea_popescu: cause of course it needs to be supported, you end up having to leave town in the middle of some crisis because you think people expect you to go to the crochet championship next town over or w/e
mircea_popescu: and within half a year just the rent extracted from you by all this bullshit
mircea_popescu: then next week you're also a horse riding expert
mircea_popescu: when you could claim you're an intenrational crochet champion, to the mouth gaping amazement of everyone.
mircea_popescu: also breeds this habint of obtaining it by lying (like the early adopter stuff) which is pernicious, because it creats the habit of lying.
mircea_popescu: instead of seeking mine, he went seeking the publishers'. well fucking hell obivously they'll approve you giving them free money.
mircea_popescu: they all claim that sorta shit. this is part of why you don't want teenaged officers : they have issues with approval, and they seek it the wrong ways in the wrong venues.
fluffypony: also I'm not sure why everyone bought his spiel about being an early BTC/LTC adopter, there wasn't any evidence of that; his lack of technical understanding of cryptocurrency fundamentals would point to the opposite
mircea_popescu: he had all the leverage he could possibly imaginably have : he didn't need a fixed date ; he was x-buying anyway. the publishers had nothing, he could have gotten any deal he wanted.
mircea_popescu: that's what truely separates the wayward (ie, erroneous) from the outright imbecilic (ie, rookie) : he didn't even fucking bother to get a good deal.
mircea_popescu: finally, they could have learned that you do not grow rich by overpaying, and that retail is for suckers.
mircea_popescu: so, while it's true that not every lesson can be learned from experience (usually because humans are too attached to their own, ego-defensive processing of experience), definitely any lesson can be learned from observation.
mircea_popescu: neobee did not have more money than the average cypriot bank, and so a media overbuy strategy was a loser.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, they could have learned that advertising is the corporate equivalent of the cock measuring competition, and you don't buy it out of proportion to your market share unless you are significantly more capitalised than the average.
mircea_popescu: the former
mircea_popescu: now, what's to be learned from there ?
mircea_popescu: (to be clear, since he's made so many : the one where he bought out all the advertising in a market, for a day)
mircea_popescu: maybe they should have hired A cup chicks to dance in a circle around roger ver, in their underwear.
mircea_popescu: if they learn from that mistake that "they should have x instead" they're prolly pretty dumb anyway.
mircea_popescu: the mistake does not exist :D
fluffypony: so where in that process is the mistake?
mircea_popescu: which was kinda the idea, there's an infinite space for experience, and in every iota of it there's an infinite space for observation.
fluffypony: which doesn't translate into clicks, and they then *learn* from that *mistake* that they should have spent the $100k on online advertising instead
mircea_popescu: basically, infinities are not all created equal, some are much larger than others.
mircea_popescu: ok. the math-y thing i was refering too you'll prolly get if you read http://trilema.com/2014/its-not-the-sauce-its-the-poultry-and-other-metamathematical-considerations/
fluffypony: the CEO/manager/whatever does a ton of research, and realises it is his not his expertise
mircea_popescu: the space of observation stands with the space of experience roughly in the relation integers stand with reals
fluffypony: on the topic of stupidity - you mentioned in a post that clever people learn by observation, and stupid people learn by direct experience...but I'm not sure if I agree that every lesson *can* be learnt by observation
mircea_popescu: the general population is in incontrovertible point of fact too stupid to live.
mircea_popescu: under it, an explanation claiming that it was the communication that kept them together
mircea_popescu: there's a post abouit how communication is inexistent,
fluffypony: And yet many people hate those barriers to entry and want to invest (read: lose) money by throwing it at the dodgiest listings on the dodgiest "exchanges" because they think they'll make money in an unregulated environment. And they complain about MPEX's barriers to entry! There are truly no limits to human greed."
fluffypony: "So then MPEX.co creates a barrier to entry by being extremely strict with listings, depending heavily on the WoT for trust and on GPG for contracts, and charging a 30 BTC fee to register as a trader (alternatively you can use a broker like CoinBr. This prevents scammy listings and (generally speaking) means that investors are of the sort that have money to invest and the rationale to think things through.
mircea_popescu: fucktards these people.
mircea_popescu: "Dannys plans before any of us came on board, were shortsighted on multiple levels. What kept us together through it all, was not the brilliance of the plan, but the coherence and communication of the assembled team and its skill sets. "
fluffypony: waiting for the downvotes to commence :-P
fluffypony: so I pointed out that there already *is* an exchange with barriers to entry to prevent stupidity, but that "everyone" complains about it and then wonders why they get scammed
mircea_popescu: HeySteve: hmm, I should lay out my garden with hedges and such in the form of my GPU << then you could dress as an electron and run around there to mine.
fluffypony: yes - and hilariously there's now a call for regulation and barriers to entry
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23cjd9/the_full_picture_of_former_neo_bee_employees/cgwetpq?context=3
mircea_popescu: pretty cool the faraday cages asciilifeform came up with huh.
mircea_popescu: hey there.
mircea_popescu pulls up the logs to see who's been up early
HeySteve: hmm, I should lay out my garden with hedges and such in the form of my GPU
HeySteve: going with motherboard
gribble: The operation succeeded.
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell mircea_popescu: that must've been the stupid spam-blocker i tried adding recently. it's now deactivated. i'm vaguely familiar with the gentlemanliness of middle ages aristocratic rivalries. sounds lovely, really. far more pleasant than the tyrannical populi or tyrannical khans bookending it.
TestingUnoDosTre: What's with the slashes?
thestringpuller: .0011 is the upper limit
thestringpuller: it's cause of the conference
mpexbot: thestringpuller: Asks: ['24891 @ 0.00098344', '3000 @ 0.00098435', '6450 @ 0.00098939', '11200 @ 0.00099063', '20780 @ 0.00099203']
mpexbot: thestringpuller: S.MPOE Bids: ['12950 @ 0.00098156', '16798 @ 0.00098102', '10873 @ 0.00097965', '3269 @ 0.00097456', '29200 @ 0.00097379']
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None
TestingUnoDosTre: Had this beer today that was brewed with the hottest peppers in the world. Slightly afraid I'm going to piss fire tonight.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bitcoinpete anyway, i was saying that teh yurpeans also had the sort of war-as-a-sporting-event thing, before the french "republic" invented socialism. they worked just fine for evereyone (yes, including those least qualified to form an opinion on the matter).
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: the place where everyone's a genius. unsurprisingly, somewhere in california.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you're not drunk but you're drinking ?
thestringpuller: i'm voiced but not authed
mircea_popescu: except one of the most critical pieces of security infrastructure was NOT reviewed
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i'm not authed but voiced
mircea_popescu: s open source so the code is reviewed"
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller im willing to share it with teh girls!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell jborkl the only thing asics are good for is that it's no longer perfectly feasible for an actor with a fab to take over the chain. it's not something wanted, but moreover something that couldn't be avoided.
thestringpuller: i think the fun needs to be divided equally and shared with everyone equally, regardless of contribution...
mircea_popescu: otherwise funflation.
mircea_popescu: there must be upper bound of fun
kakobrekla: point is how many you hold and what is the btc offset
mircea_popescu: contrary to the agreement
mircea_popescu: what if there's going to be a scam report next from garr that goat sold him THE CHEAP SHAREs
kakobrekla: but yeah, i can see him reasoning that keeping the cheap shares is a good idea
kakobrekla: the only reason he would fake it to save his rep
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla but... he got repaid 0.6 for the shares he bought over .6 but he kept the others, bought at .1 ?
kakobrekla: 03:39.19 ( +mircea_popescu ) ".6 for the shares I bought at .6 or higher. I have all the other shares, some were bought at .1 or so. I got 80% back and saved me a few years of courts and whatever (and he saved 20 years in jail). " this crap makes exactly 0 sense. < it doesnt need to make sense, goat is an idiot but garr is bigger one. it is possible he bluff pressed it.
mircea_popescu: so your hypotethical dood going around nicking as other people to fuck up the logs paternity was being chastised.
mircea_popescu: you were like, o, someone could derp in here. and i was like, yeah, but they need voice. so you were like, well, maybe they have it.
artifexd: I wanted to clarify whether I was being chastised.
mircea_popescu: i thought we were discussing a hypothetical
mircea_popescu: you don't need technology to solve all edge cases. you just need it to give peoplez teh tools to do it themselves.
mircea_popescu: ".6 for the shares I bought at .6 or higher. I have all the other shares, some were bought at .1 or so. I got 80% back and saved me a few years of courts and whatever (and he saved 20 years in jail). " this crap makes exactly 0 sense.
artifexd: Since nick changes don't show up in the log (do they?) later on, it could look like benkay was actually in here.
artifexd: Colors was just a possible implementation. The real point was to have the gribble auth status in the logs.
mircea_popescu: so basically cognitive is the name of a zombie
kakobrekla: i think _i_ cant /nick because im the owner
kakobrekla: there
kakobrekla: i mean the real one
kakobrekla: no it will follow the name change.
mircea_popescu: but yes, otherwise, you get kicked in 30 seconds by nickserv anyway
kakobrekla: thats the only solution
mircea_popescu: who would i be authed as ?
artifexd: But are you authed as mircea_popescu or someone else?
mircea_popescu: but since im voiced... i'm authed.
artifexd: mircea_popescu: It was the conversations part that led me to my suggestion about adding ident information to log.bitcoin-assets.com. If you and I are talking right now, I can ensure that you are who I think you are (wot-wise). But if I'm researching you and I find some stuff that your nick said in the log. I don't know if it was you or someone with your
kakobrekla: well i guess i try to give the lungs a bit of rest each night so the bedroom is smokeless.
mircea_popescu: if the forum ever finds out what she's been doing with her salary...
mircea_popescu: artifexd a major point perhaps not so specifically stated in the article is that an actually working wot has two parts, the wot (ie, graph of relations) and the channel (ie, graph of conversations). they support each other, and the "real" wot is their juncture, in a sense.
kakobrekla: how is it 3am there if its 3am here
dignork: sorry mp, he is in IL, it's 3am there
gribble: Error: Could not find a pending authentication request from your hostmask. Either it expired, or you changed hostmask, or you haven't made one.
kakobrekla: you did manage to get the attention of bfl shills
dignork: mircea_popescu: so if you had questions to Spondoolies-Tech, vcorem is the guy
kakobrekla: authed with gribble, not necessarily with nickserv
artifexd: kakobrekla: It would be awesome if logs.bitcoin-assets.com could indicate if the person making a statement was authed with nickserv and/or ident with gribble at the time he/she made the statement. Like color coding the log entry or something.
thestringpuller toasts to the bitcoin illuminati.
kakobrekla: well, gotta leave something for people to wonder about in the following centuries
kakobrekla: theres a slight possibility
kakobrekla: and "herps derps legit things" meaning talking about legit things which the author assumes is not legit, thats why the herp and derp
kakobrekla: the convo was edited.
thestringpuller: reeds moar game theory
artifexd: mircea_popescu is saying that if I were to see both ratings I would have a view of what happened such that I wouldn't need to ask anything about it, but, if I ignored one of the ratings, I would have a different view of what happened such that I would need to investigate more and thus possibly expose a falsified event?
artifexd: <kakobrekla> So now each of them herps derps legit things. You see half of it. <- That now reads as they both make legitimate ratings but "you" only pays attention to one of the ratings.
thestringpuller: i hope there is a hot chick in that shower with you kakobrekla
artifexd: OH! When he says sx and sy, he is referring to nodes, but more specifically, they are malicious nodes.
thestringpuller: just apply it to WoT and you'll understand the convo
thestringpuller: artifexd: have you looked at the wiki article yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack
artifexd: The phrase "ignoring what I suspect to be sx" throws me.
kakobrekla: but theres nothing missing really.
artifexd: Groupthink is the problem, right? At least as far as it is not immediately visible as such.
fluffypony: right, so sort by rating, talk to those with the most positive and most negative stories
artifexd: There are multiple ratings that exist only to move aethero's rating in a specific direction.
artifexd: Take a look at http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=aethero&sign=ANY&type=RECV
fluffypony: thus the issue only arises when n(2) maintains a microscopic view and disregards the WoT in favour of observed or hearsay indications of "trust"
artifexd: n(2) would probably look at all the ratings given to thestringpuller and make his own jugement.
thestringpuller: that's where the problem arises
fluffypony: so then is it a matter of macroscopic vs. microscopic views of the WoT as it relates to a single entity within the WoT?
artifexd: Well it wouldn't be just script kiddies and bots. If mircea_popescu were to rate someone as something and then everyone else in here were to rate that same person as that same thing, it would have the same effect.
mrstickball: I think you could have independent audits of the WoT to verify legitimacy
artifexd: Then kakobrekla says "How does that help?" How does that help what and in what way?
artifexd: So actors A and B were good, trustworthy people until they fucked up. But actor C only sees one of them fuck up. <- Am I tracking so far?
thestringpuller: they fuck up a legit thing
thestringpuller: so the minorirty becomes the actual trustworthy people such as mircea_popescu or kako
thestringpuller: the WoT could be infiltrated by script kiddies who all rate each other and work in tandem like group think of reddit
artifexd: I got the whole "If too much of the wot acts in unison, it largely defeats the point of a wot" part. It was the last part about only witnessing half the herp derping that lost me.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell mircea_popescu if tatiana is available for the third conference, you can judge her for yourself ;)
thestringpuller: artifexd: think reddit in the wot
ozbot: Advanced WoT course : how the WoT is attacked, and how it defends itself. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mi
artifexd: http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/ <- I'm glad he added the disclaimer at the beginning because i did not, in fact, understand it.
fluffypony: thestringpuller: I regularly provide lulz at market rates
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I have friends who are giant apes, so that's ok then :)
bitcoinpete: maybe the longest yet
cgcardona_: different time frame w/ edibles. They are just as good but you gotta wait half an hour or so. Sneaking a quick vaper is always the way to go. (if that's your thing of course)
fluffypony: it was fun, and I enjoyed the food/booze there significantly more than like 95% of the restaurants/takeout places I was hauled off to in St. Louis
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: That'd be Busch III, first season there was in 2006
thestringpuller: i wasn't even in atlanta in the 90's
cgcardona_: I saw the giants once in SF last year. but that was it.
thestringpuller: yea but they have trouble with dem playoffs
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Best sport for casual drinking while watching.
thestringpuller: season tickets to the braves
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Yeah
BingoBoingo: Still friday afternoon here. Have yet to go to the liquor store.
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: I did half of that already, the rest is between you and a reference work on the subject.
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: I don't really see the point in that
mrstickball: and given the number of securities that are both unregistered AND scams... is a problem
mrstickball: the problem is that until you have full compliance with governments (just like with exchanges), the government can come in and can anyone for any reason
fluffypony: danielpbarron: don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a decentralised exchange, but the idea of just about anyone anonymously running an unregistered, unregulated company just seems to be asking for trouble
fluffypony: that's that thing that allows you to "invest" in anonymous "companies" that don't need to demonstrate they have any ability to earn money, right?
ozbot: ELM - Extreme Wiring on the Prototyping Board
gribble: BitBet - And Then There Was One: <http://bitbet.us/bet/617/and-then-there-was-one/>; BitBet: <http://bitbet.us/?ref=16UBio12EWjif3aSk1f1tohxokbjGTAhAf>; BitBet: <http://bitbet.us/?ref=1DV1uHYMJxC6m7Yewn9YhtN3BKDRJYoC8Q>
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Because Havelock is part of the problem
BingoBoingo: Yeah, but the good kind of illuminati shit
thestringpuller: bitcoinassets is empty cause all the smart people are in romanias
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: they place bets for submitters on bitbet? this is news to me
thestringpuller: about 10 minutes ago the request was about 20 seconds
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Do you have a time for when that happened? I don't know and dream host doesn't know. I need times when it slows down.