bounce: you're saying the poor devil is unoriginal?
mircea_popescu: god'd like to. but tis impossible, inasmuch as the devil is human, and god is not that good.
mircea_popescu: if god actually knew every thought of the devil, he'd have not been surprised.
bounce: (yet god knows every thought of the devil's, and being a good little god... lets him be?)
bounce: I'm not disagreeing with what you're trying to say, just that the terminology could stand improvement.
bounce: no. hence the conflation.
bounce: s/back it up/&, show he has such a team/ etc. bit forgetful with the details today
bounce: guy posing as "CEO" claiming to have lots of minions needs a good team. since claim made, up to him to back it up. that's not quite the same as requiring to know his every move or his every thought.
mircea_popescu: "Now academics learn to take a paper or a class of papers, imitate the style, the organization; copy the phraseology, discuss the historical literature and find some wrinkle on the problem that makes it look like a contribution. This is what tends to be published, and this is what seems to be "original". And these works never survive the author."
bounce: disagree. it'd mean that the only good person be a totally non-anonymous person, so, real personhood is only open to, say, obama. or dubya.
mircea_popescu: there's no serious consideration of an oil-alcohol mixture being "storng enough", as you won't drink vodka-canoia oil cocktails
davout: speaking of which i'm on way to pop the second bottle, please disregard all my further comments
davout: bounce: the way i understand the argument is that ownership is akin to the state of an electron, until you observe it exists in a superposition of states, it can only have a state when you observe it
bounce: when's the liquour strong enough? well, if it's over $strength. something like that.
bounce: or sides. you can discern both states, even if the distance between them is infinitesmal and only exists as an idea to boot
bounce: we're measuring the quality. when is someone a person? whether the scale is actually countable is immaterial.
bounce: anyway that doesn't help much, since "distinguishing from the others" implies a yardstick, that in turn is a choice bound by context
bounce: ``In ancient Rome, the word "persona" (Latin) or "prosopon" ([...]: Greek) originally referred to the masks worn by actors on stage.'' --wikipedia
mircea_popescu: because the undistinguishable can't ever matter, by definition.
davout: what you're saying is pretty much that derps exist in a quantum superposition of owning, and not-owning stuff, and that their actual ownership resolves when i actually observe, aka measure them
bounce: there's this conflation of "person" to mean "someone who matters (to me)", which is highly viewpoint-dependent. your basic definition appears to be "someone who matters in the bitcoin sphere and can be trusted not to fsck up (too badly)". might need a suitable word for that.
mircea_popescu: davout your ability to distinguish derps is however central to their ability to exist.
davout: i don't think that my ability to distinguish derps is really related to their ability to own stuff, it is not necessary for me to be able to know they are able to destroy a bitcoin for them to actually be able to destroy a bitcoin
mircea_popescu: "A 43-year-old programmer who helped set in motion a class-action lawsuit against the companies and became one of its five class representatives will not be present in the San Jose courtroom. He was shot and killed by the police last December."
bounce: soldiers are cannon fodder to you, individuals to themselves and their bosses. look, they even wear name tags.
mircea_popescu: but what happens inside the pet rock is uninteresting in this discussion.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: there's an H on end
mircea_popescu: to personalize they need to de-jehova-witnessize for you, before you.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: looks like I lost the bet
bounce: yeah, no. with davout on this one, "anonymity" is lack of a label, not necessarily lack of an underlying identity. on the flip side, you already know what jehova's witnesses will try and tell you without you needing their name, regardless of whether they offer their name. if they do, they're no longer anonymous. it doesn't affect your esteem for what they're trying to tell you.
davout: mircea_popescu: yes, but fungibility and anonymity lie in the observer, property lies with the things themselves
mircea_popescu: the opinion of derp1 is exactly equal to the opinion of derp2 inasmuch as we don't know anything about 'em.
davout: mircea_popescu: derps might be fungible as anonymous entities, entities we couldn't care to name, it doesn't really impede their ability to each own a bitcent
mircea_popescu: this entire shit is backwards. views, which are not fungible, people pretend are in fact fungible. then anons, which are absolutely fungible, people pretend like are not. apparently the web is quite counterintuitive.
davout: mircea_popescu: i'd say fungibility is the absence of identity, anonymity is the absence of name, but i'm too tipsy on that delicious rosé champagne to even imagine arguing the point properly
davout: mircea_popescu: being anonymous doesn't mean there is no idnentity
mircea_popescu: there's no "my" in anonimity.
mircea_popescu: people have a lot of difficulty groking that if you're anonymous... there is no property.
mircea_popescu: davout and the balls ?!
mircea_popescu: it was unreadable, because the frame covered it.
mircea_popescu: here's a funny story : bar where we watered saturday night, had an advertising above the urinal. on that advertising, aqr code.
fluffypony: and the money will just magically come off without us needing to authorise it
fluffypony: and the cashier will say "PayPal or Bitcoin, sir?"
mircea_popescu: " QR codes have been around and hyped for years, but they were never used as much as developers and marketing people hoped." << truth.
fluffypony: and walk up to the counter
fluffypony: so apparently the way we *should* be using Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: Members across three generations: P.L. Chebyshev, A.A. Markov, A.M. Lyapunov, S.N. Bernshtein (ie. Bernstein), E.E. Slutskii, N.V. Smirnov, L.N. Bol'shev, V.I. Romanovskii, A.N. Kolmogorov,Yu.V. Linnik, and the new generation: V Petrov, S.V. Nagaev, A.V. Nagaev, A. Shyrayev, etc.
mircea_popescu: I would like to record here (so people get off my back) that I do not belong to the so-called "Austrian School" of economics, in spite of a few similar positions on bailouts and bottom-up systems. I believe in mathematical statements. But if I were to belong to a school of thought designated by a nationality, the {NATIONALITY} SCHOOL of {DISCIPLINE} it would be the Russian school of probability.
davout: fluffypony: you'd click it in doubt, and that's the whole point :-)
fluffypony: thatsthejoke.gif
mircea_popescu: i can fucking hear them.
Shakespeare: in the airport
mircea_popescu: so they fetch her and she's completely dumbfounded... guy came, witgh his bags, checked out and left. how is she to know he's not to be allowed to leave ?!
Shakespeare: he had some trouble with the time zones :)
mircea_popescu: so you know, i go there like a fucking ride of valkiries screaming all the way from like outside, WHO DUN IT!
mircea_popescu: she calls me in a total panic, cause well... he's gone ?! and she suspects the idiot receptionist kicked him out maybne ?
davout: mircea_popescu: naaah, we met mike_c there
mircea_popescu: it's like... when you come out from under sea, you gotta re-aclimatize to the suck.
mircea_popescu: davout was like... hey, i know you set it up for us to be there in time, but could you cancel it so we go on foot 7 1/2 hours later ?
davout: Shakespeare mircea_popescu our cab driver started the ride by yelling "Shumacher shumacher!"
Shakespeare: ASCII gave your cabbie a bunch $20 bills this morning. I couldn't tell which of them enjoyed it more
mircea_popescu: but they won't let you take i dunno, lotion. i nevere heard of lotion exploding
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare it's hysterical because well... wine fermented in the bottle can well explode.
davout: drank/drunk, what is the correct one ?
davout: Shakespeare: that's the only way you can get it through
mircea_popescu: clothesline srsly ?
Shakespeare: lol not clothesline
Shakespeare: I wrapped it in my clothesline my checked baggage
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
davout: mircea_popescu: the rosé is very nice
davout: Shakespeare: gotta love the cavity searches
Shakespeare: and then later me and someone else won for deals
Shakespeare: remember the rules argument?
Shakespeare: for the record, davout lost at least 1.5 games
mircea_popescu: i mean, i don't actually think that w/e, they're faking it. but it just fails to compute on the intuitive level.
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare i still have trouble wrapping my head around the notion.
Shakespeare: so for 9 hours over the ocean guess who I get seated with
fluffypony: "$22 billion/[(310 million people)(12 years)(~$5,000/person/year)]=0.0012. $22 billion would meet about 0.12% of the health insurance costs for 12 years. Actual cost would be $18.6 trillion. Health insurance would have to cost $5.91 per person per year for $22 billion to cover everyone for 12 years."
bounce: curiously, a load of stolen garlic got recovered (border agents smelled something), and the value reported sounded like they used wholesale prices, not "supermarket prices".
fluffypony: also that bit at the end is way wrong
fluffypony: also the third picture is an actual museum
bounce: apt, though. consider what happens to reported prices, the so called "street value"
fluffypony: "A raid of his home in the wealthy neighborhood of Mexico City produced what police described as "the largest single drug cash seizure the world has ever seen." Almost $207 million sat in the house in cash. Seven high-powered firearms were also in the house, the New York Times reported."
mircea_popescu: like 200ish mn there.
mircea_popescu: 10 x 34 on the surface, like 60 or so deep
fluffypony: there's no way
bounce wonders where the 18bn figure came from.
bounce: oh, apparently misremembered, only 207mn usd. still, what's an underground bunker or two cost these days?
bounce: what was that picture again, of some narco guy's mansion with on the order of 18bn in usd and assorted further currencies in various places, down to simply stacked in a room. one'd think that's enough to buy an underground bunker to store the stuff.
bounce: well, not so secret. was another "discovery" from some security blogging company or other; buncha roossians had started their own coin
mircea_popescu: where do they hold it ? little italy ? nigeria ?
mircea_popescu: lol i wonder if there exists a secret underground ScamCon
thestringpuller: i dunno corsets are expensive, classy and sexy all at the sametime
thestringpuller: mp doesn't go to many nerd conventions where the girls cosplay in steampunk with corsets galore
gribble: Rabbit of Caerbannog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_of_Caerbannog>; Tim the Enchanter (Character) - Quotes - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0032565/quotes>; Faced With a Killer Rabbit - Monty Python Page: <http://montypython.50webs.com/scripts/Holy_Grail/Scene20.htm>
turbo_ac100: The manticore still is a lion though.
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None
turbo_ac100: OF COURSE it works without the flood issues... *sigh*
turbo_ac100: trying again (i know right now I'm not authed). There is a flood message I'm gonna reproduce now
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user turbo_ac100: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=turbo_ac100 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=turbo_ac100 | Rated since: Thu Apr 3 11:09:50 2014
turbo_ac100: authed with gribble but assbot doesn't let me !up
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller was great.
thestringpuller: rested i see from the exciting conference
fluffypony: yeah, Anduck will remove the negrating once you get hold of him
cgcardona_: fluffypony: thanks for the help. that totally blows.
fluffypony: well not kick them off, I think it forces a nick change to GuestXXXXX
bounce views nickserv as rather fascist already, nevermind nick enforcing. it's the thing to do on here, but, you know. can also argue that with only gribble it'd give more incentive to check with gribble first and foremost, and to accept no substitutes.
cgcardona_: so now that I have it set to enforce it will make someone enter my nickserv each time and if not kick them off of my nick?
fluffypony: looks like they scammed someone too
fluffypony: from there
cgcardona_: i should check the logs.
fluffypony: although WHY that isn't the default on Freenode is beyond me
bounce: why didn't you get the nick without _ released and use that? you can still do that, by the by.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user cgcardona_ to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=cgcardona_&dest=Anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012
fluffypony: cgcardona_: kakobrekla is the channel owner
cgcardona_: I think that (with regards to the W3C) bitcoin's biggest lacking fundimental is that it's not a W3C tech.
cgcardona_: I still remember when Hixie was leader of the HTML5 working group and he said it was gonna take till 2019!
cgcardona_: "There will be bood"
cgcardona_: MP - yea I'm *never* surprised when the leader of a working group predicts something will 'take years'
benkay: enjoy the con, jurov?
benkay: cgcardona_: repeat that line to anyone seeking to 'bring bitcoin to the masses'
cgcardona_: fwiw I asked Manu Sporny (lead of the W3C Payments Working Group) what he thinks of bitcoin. Q: https://twitter.com/cgcardona/status/457225541284687872 A1: https://twitter.com/manusporny/status/458264859055247360 A2: https://twitter.com/manusporny/status/458265043860455424
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: he who does not puts ze puzzle together is known as... a putz.
mircea_popescu: redheaded chicks named khannah' being the world's premiere sluts and all ?
bounce: curious tidbit: there's a reason it's the mother, not the father, that conveys jewishness to the kid. figuring out why should be just a bit of thought.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
bounce: better than islam, where getting in is relatively easy (just learn a book by rote and loud repetition), getting out... carries the death penalty. (literally)
mircea_popescu: but before it was large enough, there was no tribalism. most being... self made jooz.
mircea_popescu: FabianB you know the expression, "next year in jerusalem". i just.. well... sexchanged it.
fluffypony: bounce is right, though - they self-identified based on the son they were descended from
bounce: what, you're saying their holy book can possibly be wrong? what malarky is this? :-p
mircea_popescu: bounce we're talking actual history rather than orginal mythology tho
fluffypony: if you decided to follow the belief but you weren't born of the 12 tribes you weren't a jew
bounce: isn't it their creation story that groups them in various tribes, about 12 or so? though to call that a "race" is maybe a bit overly ambitious.
mircea_popescu: the middle part... that becomes complex
mircea_popescu: bounce the part where early judaism was not tribal, but more akin to today's jehova witnesses is accurate
bounce: I think the "jews make up a race according to western languages" premise mostly means the writer is still stuck in wwII-era propaganda.
mircea_popescu: grew up into an adult that proceeds on the basis of word recognition
mircea_popescu: benkay that's exactly what happens. someone who was taught in primary school to "guess what words meran in context" instead of being beaten every time he failed to look up new words in the dictionary
benkay: "it's not enough that this is specifically stupid, i'm going to generalize this idiocy to the general case."
benkay: generalizing concepts. sounds like someone heard about 'general solutions' from someone else with a lil bit o programmery experience and decided it was important to do for their ideas as well.
mircea_popescu: i'll borrow the expression from taleb, since i just read it : this shit's not even wrong.
fluffypony: "Bitcoin itself can be viewed as an early form of DAC. We are generalizing the concept for use in the open source community, building on Bitcoin's proven technology. Bitcoin could be reimplemented as a full open standards-compliant DAC. Perhaps someday it will."
fluffypony: there they say Digital, but in one of the references it says "Distributed Autonomous Corporations (DACs), or Decentralized Autonomous Companies"
ozbot: On the Difference between Binary Prediction and True Exposure with Implications for Forecasting Tour
mircea_popescu: hem what they don't know. "
mircea_popescu: "Having spent more than two decades, as an option trader and book-runner (~ 650,000 trades), I have always been leery of inexperienced academics talking about "prediction markets" when we have organic, spontaneously formed markets, and have had them since civilization started --my reaction is that of an old plane engineer and pilot being lectured by a high school English student who never flew a plane. You can't tell t
mircea_popescu: "Likewise, today when a Westerner tells a Lebanese Shiite that he has a separate "ethnicity", he is baffled. Mazhab is not ethnicity, no more than being a democrat in the US would be a different race (although it should be)."
fluffypony: start there
exchange01: what would be the requirements for that ?
mircea_popescu: well i dunno man, so far there's not much here to go on. what suggestions are you looking for ?
exchange01: and being listed, but I am looking for other options and I've been told about Mpex
mircea_popescu: exchange01 i don't hold private conversations with people i don't know. this is kinda the basis of private conversations : the parties must be acquainted.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo why is this byrne kid so fixated on the entire personal attack angle ? he told thickashtieves the same thing, yet how the heck would his being clueless a personal attack on me. wtf, i'm not his mother.
fluffypony: exchange01: crash course on IRC - you type the words, you press the enter, they come out on the screen
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: but he likes it because it's "his design" and so therefore infallible
mircea_popescu: to not even get in the advanced topics of how 50%+1 of crypto-related specs are broken by design anyway. what sort of argument is this, that package x is bad because it allows user to do something some rfc says should not be done ? blergh.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony the guy is derping about what "gpg does in 2014" forgetting to even mention what version he's using. because everything in his head was born this year, so obviously...
mircea_popescu: here's to hoping that this is the first, biggest and largest exchange
mircea_popescu: how's this different from the previous conclusion
mircea_popescu: "Holy shit! What kind of toy random number generator is GPG using? Never mind that the message is printed twice. Never mind that both messages flick by before I have half a chance to read them, let alone do anything to entropize my system. Wiggle the mouse for moar entropies. I wouldnt trust a program that prints messages like this to protect my middle school slambook."
mircea_popescu: "reop is clearly influenced by signify (What can I say? I like my own designs.), but its not a clone." done reading there.
mircea_popescu: all the time. i recall stomping one [\\\] spotted in like... 2012 ?
fluffypony: they're more difficult
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: wrt making Sybil attacks harder, isn't there/couldn't there be a GPG-like system that uses a common private key for a single owner, but also hash some sort of easily identifiable GUID as part of the pubkey/signature to indicate which machine it is on? that way an attacker's work becomes slightly more complex, as they need to not only create profiles but have a fresh VM/install/whatever for them
FabianB: Tencent's CEO: "In America, when you bring an idea to market you usually have several months before competition pops up, allowing you to capture significant market share. In China, you can have hundreds of competitors within the first hours of going live. Ideas are not important in China--execution is."
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3: the bot should just be set to autovoice me < nope.
ozbot: Investor-state dispute settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: thats the reference.
mircea_popescu: o which reminds me! if any of the esteemed VIPs can repeat either of my two little latin fables, there's a prize!
mircea_popescu: artifexd: Put that ink in your printer and make a super sekrit paper wallet. << plain white wallpaper with floral designs that morphs into japanese girls and octopuses once you shine a black light in the dark.
bounce: "journalists not so speshul". funny how that needs a court to tell them journos.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, make every woman in south africa wear uncomfortable bras just fore the hell of it
mircea_popescu: do that for a year, audience builts, then she can prolly start her own eyeliner line
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell thickasthieves http://gigaom.com/2014/01/19/on-free-speech-and-blogging-the-first-amendment-applies-to-everyone-not-just-journalists/
mircea_popescu: "Out of nowhere like a UFO website beegcoin edited by BEEG CORPORATION LIMITED, registered in London and created by young French to be, I think, a huge slap to the ego -centric bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: "Their common ? They both worked at Orange / France Telecom , the first from 2007 to 2011, the second from 2005 to 2011 . They are logically met through this company that pushes people into suicide."
mircea_popescu: then decides to scam the few legit customers he has to return a 1/5 to 1/3 equity to his invesotrs, and story ends there.
mircea_popescu: then discovers his ROI is about 3 to 5%
mircea_popescu: the way this shit works is, fucktard of the ilk of that byrne fellow figures he knows shit, gets some investors together, anywhere between a few 10s of k's to maybe a million,
fluffypony: domain registered in fucking December, we're now in April, they barely lasted 4 months of scamming
fluffypony: I did too in the log
mircea_popescu: anyway, was reading the article. pretty lulzy
mircea_popescu: lol coinet srsly ? ALL THESE THINGS nobody ever heard of being the biggest ever in their obscure corner onoes!
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: in which /r/Bitcoin can't decide whether to spend its ten cents on supersizing the coke or the fries. it's really unfair anyway because if they supersize one they should get the other for free. << FTFY
fluffypony: the CEO's name is Pony?
ozbot: Tencent: The Secretive, Chinese Tech Giant That Can Rival Facebook and Amazon | Fast Company | Busin
mircea_popescu: http://www.fastcompany.com/3029119/most-innovative-companies/tencent-the-secretive-chinese-tech-giant-that-can-rival-facebook-a
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell cgcardona lol is it the first best largest wot ?
mircea_popescu: on that note, often manufacturers explicitly forbid to install updates and servicepacks since it might well break the app. << since heartbleed i'm going to forbid any upgrades as part of the contract in all cases, always and forever.
mircea_popescu: bounce "the odd dos-only application that's critical to the business and irreplacable" << this should be ridiculous but isn't. most "tools" of today aren't actally as good as the tools of the 90s.
mircea_popescu: Adam Penenberg is such an idiot. o herp, please help along with the grandiose effort of making usg snooping more user-acceptable.
mircea_popescu: and we halven the lion population ?
fluffypony: then South Africa 2016, we can have a Halvening Party and I'll arrange a safari
BingoBoingo: It is amazing how personal timekeeping hasn't had any advancements since 1970, much like how you still seem fluffypony to be the sort that would borrow bitcoin for cheap polyester couches.
fluffypony: "The movement was, however, used in spacecraft instrument clocks and other time-keeping mechanisms, partly also because NASA was still unsure how gravity would affect mechanical movements."
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: I know people rip on Wikipedia in this chan, but it wouldn't be the worst place to start in understanding how 1950's tech works
BingoBoingo: A silver oxide cell would offer the worst possible discharge curve for that purpose though.
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Not striking, resonating. That's what the coils of copper wire do. It's a fucking watch, not a rail gun.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: sing by striking the tuning fork?
BingoBoingo: Well, decent doesn't say too much... How many people alive can make them sing (I actually, literally mean sing)
fluffypony: they're not badly priced in decent condition
fluffypony: are the batteries hard to come by?
fluffypony: bounce: no clue, it's quite impressive that they make it look like a regular watch face
bounce: wonder how they do white solar panels.
fluffypony: I love the exposed resistor
BingoBoingo: The few I've worked on take 357 batteries though, and that is a lot of silver for a year and a half of function.
BingoBoingo: I have yet to see anything as beautiful as the original accutron movements.
mircea_popescu: judging by the excellent results electrostatic speakers show it's a wonder they've not tried that yet actually.
BingoBoingo: ANd the only I've known of were all made by Japs
BingoBoingo: Seiko also has a mechanically recharged all electric quarts they call kinetic
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seiko has a mechanical powered quartz regulated movement they call "Spring Drive"