a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 15:13 asciilifeform: the ~86k packets is a worst-case avg, obviously, per 'birthday theorem' it will succeed almost certainly sooner
mircea_popescu: which is why all the "oh noes advertise ip" bla bla machinery is always a sign of idiocy on the part of "designer". trbi needs "ip backflow" like i need power rangers in my living room.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 15:10 asciilifeform: in the former case, it only needs to send 1 per second, to find a peer within 24 hours.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 15:00 diana_coman: possibly, no idea really; but what, they just send random udp stuff on all ports?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861810 << there's a list of things to send. kids are made douchebag through the process of finding said list, noticing "it works!" and going from there.
asciilifeform: the old sages were onto this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but yes, evidently fenrir came for them.
BingoBoingo: "Fortnight" is what the kids call it
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> you're thinking a decade ago. they fixed this. << This. They have this "battle royal" thing now where everybody laffs over how they all die in vain
mircea_popescu: there is literally nothing whatsoever to achieve and no means to achieve it left.
asciilifeform: did they ? i admit, did not follow subj, soured on it thoroughly in early 00s
mircea_popescu: you're thinking a decade ago. they fixed this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform will not grow in engineered world. hence the wow example.
mircea_popescu: you know, it's funny btw, how "mmorpg" evolved. back around time of eternal september, computer in the house pretty much guaranteed head present. and so the games catered to this. hence h2.
mircea_popescu: "god created man in his image (and not vice-versa!!!!)" xtian creed. hence "peace". what could possibly be needed in the perfect world of the scummy repose, than... more of the same ?
mircea_popescu: ye, he's not stupid in a way different from stupid. the frog's legs don't jerk because something to do with this particular frog. and so on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, kako was actually trying to bake one of these, and i was almost disappointed when it flamed out and left the current cinders, largely consisting of spamola and occasional prb 'news'
mircea_popescu: "our idiocy works as proven by all the works of those who hated us, which we claim for ourselves because hey, what's in a claim."
asciilifeform: the slow but effective garbage collector of time + expensive print, helps'em 'cheat', yes
mircea_popescu: kinda perverse, you know. sorta like a kakobrekla-run alt-trilema filled with effigy statues of the lordship.
mircea_popescu: the overflow of unreadable crap "enlightment" has produced is carefully not mentioned by the pantsuit apologists.
asciilifeform: so when 'poet' came to be seen, largely correctly, as yet another species of urban refuse, living on rubbish like new world raccoon, then yes despised, mega-surprise
asciilifeform: was associated with rat life, the way walmart is today
asciilifeform: considering that tb didn't take off until euros packed themselves like spiders in a jar, in 'urban' hell..
mircea_popescu: meanwhile tb, the archetipal european poet characteristic, was despised among the raiding population as the degenerative disease of the bull penis suckers.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman is he the ultimate in suave p2p ? cuz i'm starting to suspect!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is not factual either. most of the great japanese poets died of the sword.
asciilifeform: dun forget the 'height of the towers' tho. pretty much all of the samurai poetry / arts / etc come from the period where jp had already been properly divvied up, and the swordsmen were living fast off guaranteed kokus of rice, rather than daily raid
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> BingoBoingo, this is a short chick, btw, who walks around here alone on a daily basis, with a backpack for 6 years, never gets bothered << I suspect mircea_popescu's comment downthread explains it. A substantial set of the Latinos appear inclined to take anything that isn't bolted down, provided nothing bad happens to them from it.
mircea_popescu: this is pious fraud. the pantsuit subhuman has been just as overwhelmed, and overwhelmed in the exact same ways expressed in the exact same terms since cato the elder.
mircea_popescu: but the difference between integrated world and disintegrated world is specifically important, because common view of "postmodernism" is "woe poor man, overwhelmed".
mircea_popescu: just about the whole story, yeah.
mircea_popescu: in truth, the more adept at "horse and bow" or w/e they get, the more keenly aware of subtle differences that create hierarchy. exactly reversed dunning-kruger, "to me all these cowboys seem superlatively competent at riding and lasso, but they -- they complexly disagree"
asciilifeform: i dun dispute the model where folx with a working head, like thinking and playing with calligraphy brush an' rhyme, and where herbivority is not conducive to growing thinking head
mircea_popescu: they didn't do it for a good reason according to you. they did it for a good reason according to them.
mircea_popescu: i propose the capitalist view is inadequate in context.
mircea_popescu: and the ~reason~ "never would have occured" is specifically that they were dedicated to NOT breaking the world snowglobe into shards.
asciilifeform: plenty of folx took it seriously, once yer in a platoon of folx ~equally adept at horse an' bow, then how to stand out.
mircea_popescu: capitalist thought anachronism in context. "yes it'd have worked ; but it'd never have occured to them"
mircea_popescu: samurai took it seriously. old middle earth tribe idem. it seems to me it was not optional then
mircea_popescu: so there's your difference : raider will be good at everything there is to be good at or die trying.
asciilifeform: 'watch me whip myself silly for the glory of god' etc
mircea_popescu: (wanking all the whilke about "how hard it is", of course, of course).
mircea_popescu: something other than "we cut the worldcake into slices and picked the one easiest to lift" ?
mircea_popescu: the raider's world is whole, and he fills it ; whereas the peon's world is sharded, and he picks the easiest shard to the spite of all others.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile aming the "civilised" shitheads, the equivalent, saint, is ~pious~. naught else.
mircea_popescu: let's approach it from this filum : in those societies which are "uncivilised", which is to say not yet rotten, the discussion of superlative achievement, as the hero (always male, of course, but let's leave that aside) is a plenitude. he can shoot the bow if the bow is known AND ride if the horse is known AND sail or raft or canoe AND sing if they have music AND AND AND
asciilifeform: if there's some record that raiders 'were sad' about raiding, i do not know of it
mircea_popescu: yes. but raider cannibal is much better than christian farmer. bacause raider-cannibal doesn't either think he's doing the right thing nor believe it's impossible to do something else.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: errybody 'elects maculae', it aint as if raider-cannibal is exempt somehow from thermodynamics, still gotta find somebody to eat.
mircea_popescu: peasant isn't the misfortunate victim of his flaws and foibles. peasant is THE DEDICATION to the SPECIFICALLY ELECTED sins and maculae.
asciilifeform: ( and unlike in petri dish , the meatsacks ~don't~ automatically fill to capacity, barbarians, plagues, help'em to avoid )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's still a diff, in italy 3 harvests in year, but near moscow ~maybe~ 1
mircea_popescu: "stupid cunts keep spawning and well... do what you can" "how about fix them ?" "uhhh...ooooga ?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when actually reading the german folx, noticed, they formulated exactly like this, it's no mystery.
mircea_popescu: hence all the xanax.
asciilifeform: to make life even moar complicated, the infection, in some circumstances, is actually adaptive ( peasants living where agriculture barely worx at all, can only survive in 'mir' or similar formation , i suspect )
mircea_popescu: which theoretical viewpoint suddenly makes nazi choices make sense : first, they took care of warsaw ghetto, the ~internal~ reservoir. once that was liquidated, moved on to the foreign reservoirs.
mircea_popescu: and so -- the pantsuit of today the reservoir of today ; much like the mirvniki of 1800, the reservoir of 1800.
mircea_popescu: except in plenty of bipedals -- nothing there to destroy.
mircea_popescu: i would say that the best way to represent socialism, from early xtian communism to today's social media solipsism, is as a sort of meningitis.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform precisely what the pantsuit is : socialism reservoir.
mircea_popescu: because in the end, to say "whichever pathogen best uses them wins" is to say exactly that.
mircea_popescu: yes a bacillum is high tech arcana when compared to the mouthdribbler. nevertheless, the selector among high tech arcanna is precisely the bulk of undifferentiated biomass.
mircea_popescu: the ~reason~ y pestis exists is the long line of joe moron, and his mulae & stramulae.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
mircea_popescu: it seems, to some high analysis, that the workings of bacillum pestis works entirely independently of Joe Moron, who keeps "accidentally" falling into his own dung.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was half-expecting you'd mention unvaccinated BingoBoingostani and their mumps. but this also worx, i suppose
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861545 << same way unwashed idiots enable plague. but i mean, EXACT same way. they're the god of the gaps as far as evil is concerned.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i must add that if the bots are trooly pwned, and receiver lives in kernel ( or iron... ) then 'ports' dun matter at all, receiver can listen to erry packet sent its way .
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the lulz collectors, http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2018-10-13#441696
asciilifeform: the ~86k packets is a worst-case avg, obviously, per 'birthday theorem' it will succeed almost certainly sooner
asciilifeform: in the former case, it only needs to send 1 per second, to find a peer within 24 hours.
asciilifeform: this of course presumes that they all listen on 1 port; if not , then multiply the above by the # of ports in use.
asciilifeform: say it has 50,000 nodes. then 2**32 / 50000 =~ 85899 packets sent at random is all that it needs to find a peer and rejoin its net.
asciilifeform: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3 is all he's got running there, tho
diana_coman: seems to be some address in the US and "corporate" fwiw
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect that most likely it was part of a ddos, and the forged return address happened to match yours
asciilifeform: ( there could even exist something, somewhere, exploitable via magic packet )
diana_coman: apparently I'll have to get all those unexpected messages in some readable format and post them, myeah
asciilifeform: diana_coman: they probe for peers
diana_coman: possibly, no idea really; but what, they just send random udp stuff on all ports?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to post the bytes ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, no, weird, single UDP message received from it by the UY node during tests
ave1: diana_coman, I now have a good version of the crc32 bitwise constant time algo, but I ran out of time for today, so eta probably tomorrow.
Mocky: yeah i better tone down the eye makeup
Mocky: and the horde of scrawny indian dudes with their skinny jeans, even the fat ones still have scrawny legs and wear skinny jeans
mircea_popescu: bugs need water, their principal design problem is that they have to be permeable for respiration, which results in water loss.
Mocky: outside last night in the city, stones throw from the bay, staring up at street lights during the interminable wait at crosswalks, not a single bug circling street lights, not a spider web
Mocky: the insect situation here hard to fathom. they just about don't have any. i saw a moth here on the first day, very small. and another moth outside last night, tiny.
mircea_popescu: they managed to erradicate that much like the us managed to erradicate manhood : direct amputation.
Mocky: she didn't say so and I didn't ask her directly, but I will. She seems like a good asset for making further media contacts and cultural info (topic of magazine) and not direct contact to locals
mircea_popescu: does she know any of these ?
Mocky: local Qatari men are shoe-ins for high level company / agency / gov jobs and often inherit a lot of wealth, and only ~100k of them so they aren't exactly drawn to street crimes
Mocky: she says that ultimately every foreigner has a single named Qatari sponsor (typically company part-owner) who has the power to kick you out anytime and who gets hassled if you cause trouble
Mocky: BingoBoingo, this is a short chick, btw, who walks around here alone on a daily basis, with a backpack for 6 years, never gets bothered
Mocky: She showed me the Souq Waqif, a large "street market" 2 city blocks in size, about half indoors (although the indoor part looks like narrow streets with a roof) it's like the cultural center for Qataris. various musical 'bands' playing traditional drum music
Mocky: I met yesterday with a chick who does the social media and photography for a local magazine. She's not a local but seems to have a good set of connections and eager to help me out.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 00:05 asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp the supposed usg feud with qatar -- iirc the latter sank couple $B into usg's 'moderate rebels'
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861536 >> also sunk $B into building largest military base in the region for usg. 'feud' seems like public theatre to my noob eyes. US is well respected here in contrast to gulf state back-turners.
hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 23:37 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859589 << I didn't send, no. Should I replace Hanna's name in there and the phone number?
mod6: I would pay for ring side seats to watch the hamptons fist fight over who gets to eat the bark off the shitty cottonwood trees that day though.
mod6: *nod* sometimes people throw them into a warm brandy drink. "hot tadi?" I think they're called.
mircea_popescu: coffee, as the case may be.
mircea_popescu: for the record i had some treebark earlier.
mod6: , and one can go broke betting against the irrationality of the whole thing. But when one-day comes, and the tide goes out, only hard assets will remain. They'll either take the Republic's BTC or eat tree bark like 1777.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> upstack, i suspect mircea_popescu has the answ to the riddle of why bitcoin hasn't killed wu et al -- orcs still perceive having the option not to use btc << They have the option, ~for now~. We know, that the whole world currently runs on "magic money", currently. However, my hunch is that "magic money" and worlds built on fraud can not live for forever. They can last a long time, however
mod6: usg has no money. all they got is BS.
mod6: don't these dorks listen to AC/DC? Money Talks, BS Walks.
mod6: *these
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if this ends up settled by the mailing of a large quantity of alfajores... keks << hahah.
mod6: (to the dismay of my lungs)
mod6 just got back from playing hockey, for the first time in nearly a decade.
mircea_popescu: some random institution to employ a coupla gals that "weren't really working there".
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in lulz nobody likely gives a shit about : romania apparently has some natgas in its chunk of black sea shelf ; usg wants to steal this ; ro senate wrote a law for them ; ro commons rejected it, because this one guy (liviu dragnea) said so. his majority collapsed because "hungarian" miniparty changed its mind overnight (ie, transparently got bought out) and well... guess who is "accused" of supposedly having FORCED
mircea_popescu: all these languages, slovene, serbian, croatian, etceterian...
mircea_popescu: for all the good it does 'em...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: read full list an' weep, they have ukr, old norse, ecclesiastical latin, koine greek...
mircea_popescu: srsly, the diff between dari and farsi is not unlike the difference between czech and "slovak"
asciilifeform: ( and they also issue, or at least used to, little boxen with point-and-grunt ui with eng buttons and speaker to bark orders in vein of 'hande hoch!' on other end )
asciilifeform: btw they mostly use orc translators in the field. but i suspect mircea_popescu knew this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i happen to know the 'logic', btw, it aint even a 'what countries pentagon plans for war', but dumb bean counter 'whom fewest translators for'
mircea_popescu: well, i guess the right answer to your q is that i'm way too lazy to put the work into it ? i guess simplest approach would be to convert a set of trilema records to postgres, and try your pg_trgm thing on it.
asciilifeform: and then binarysearchates'em
asciilifeform: then thing loox for rows that ~could~ contain yer string
asciilifeform: which you otherwise would
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're stored sparsely, loox like
mircea_popescu: but it'd seem the index would scale on an exponential of record size
mircea_popescu: i guess there's no way out of implementing some inverse-index or i guess ngram really, to test this out. mebbe my intuition is entirely off
mircea_popescu: ie, what do you think is the trigram index of a 200kb file ?
mircea_popescu: no, i understand the concept ; what i don't understand is why you think this works well for wildly varied size records.
asciilifeform: and matches these up with similarly processed indexed items
mircea_popescu: how do you mean "works just as well" ? The pg_trgm module provides functions and operators for determining the similarity of ASCII alphanumeric text based on trigram matching, as well as index operator classes that support fast searching for similar strings. << seems eminently based on birthday problem, "how many different permutations of 60 characters can there be"
asciilifeform: there gotta be one
asciilifeform: i dunno what is the mysql equiv. presently
mircea_popescu: but trilema has the converse problem : there's ks of article, from 2kb to 200kb or so.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i used a 'trigraph' index, they're O(~n log n) , if yer interested.
asciilifeform: and can see what others searched in it.
asciilifeform: i search my www, small as it is, surprisingly often. and i like that i neither have to use google or unsheath the launch codes, to do it.
mircea_popescu: i do not even kid, the 5bn figure is ~accurate.
phf: asciilifeform: correct approach is to download entire trilema and index it locally. folks who don't bother to do that have no business searching it :>
mircea_popescu: i'd just get 5bn bots "searching" for the usual crap.
asciilifeform: whereas back when they were stuck massaging google, didn't
asciilifeform: i also get the added pheature of seeing ~what~ folx search for
mircea_popescu: all searches take 1-2s, you realise. course i do the luxurious LIKE "%x%" format.
mircea_popescu: they're marginally less aggravation in "oh, never heard of that page" than they're productive in "well, dun have to unlock key"
asciilifeform: btw was there particular reason mircea_popescu never exposed wp search box on his www ? ( cpu miser ? )
mircea_popescu: well, i used to think that maybe ; but this level of utterly idiotic bs is convincing me otherwise.
asciilifeform: doomed, incidentally, approach -- they own (and undocumentedly) a good chunk of ipv4
asciilifeform: i think they use a balancer thing
asciilifeform: lol i only read as far as the cert
phf: i just noticed that the geek roots thing links to #!, quite idiotic
phf: mircea_popescu: it seems like either end works, i sometimes use !g and g! also works
mircea_popescu: but why does it do it for q=us! ? shouldn't it be q=!us then ?
mircea_popescu: obscure spamdomain from liuke... the 2000s.
mircea_popescu: ie, it returns a redirect from the correct ip (at least i see duckduckgo.com. 403 IN A 23.21.193.169 here ?)
mircea_popescu: apparently the duckduckgo site itself is pwned ?
mircea_popescu: in other wtf : does https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us! redirect to some weird website for anyone ? because wtf is going on here, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us works as expected.
trinque: I figure the sin's lazily evaluated; did you liberate some cash from usg and thus liberate your own arse, or not.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 00:15 asciilifeform: if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861550 << the confessional fervor of this fellow...
asciilifeform: the dope people, by all indications, ~luvvv~ usd. and none of the 'remittance policing' exists at any level that'd bother'em.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-22 23:35 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816718 << hah, i originally watched it for the same reason, and the only thing i even remember is burroughs sitting in the chair, and spitting the "narcotics" prediction in his famous squeaky voice
asciilifeform: without usg's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1817099 thing, there's be as much 'dope cartel' as there is aspirin cartel.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 23:56 mircea_popescu: the drug trade should wake up to the idiocy, start a remittance business
asciilifeform: returning upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861511 , the fact that they haven't, is imho serious support for asciilifeform's traditional hypothesis of the dope folx being ~symbionts~ of usg , rather than antagonists
asciilifeform: i meant the rack as a whole
asciilifeform: so not much surprise that there aint a lively otc market.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-10 01:22 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ltRHd << per same, of the 4 public noadez in BingoBoingostan, 3 are in pizarro
asciilifeform: fwiw it appears that BingoBoingo presently houses the ONLY actual btc noadz in BingoBoingostan... per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859945
asciilifeform: naturally cattle cannot operate a btctron. they'd have to delegate it to an actual person. but even ~these~ , in orcistan, seem to prefer to stash up usd.
asciilifeform: if they started saving in btc instead, there'd be 'hawaladar' to fill their appetite on erry street corner, from sahara to patagonia
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an old piece where mentioned orcs all over saving in usd, hanging on to erry benjie like it were a shard of the trooo cross. ~that~ is 1 of the elephants on which usg stands.
asciilifeform: idjit orcs would rather die, apparently, than risk exch rate swing
asciilifeform: and they're regularly gassed, wherever, thailand or pretty much any turd world shithole, usg dun even have to break a sweat
asciilifeform: the 'hallucinated choice'(tm)(r) thing
asciilifeform: upstack, i suspect mircea_popescu has the answ to the riddle of why bitcoin hasn't killed wu et al -- orcs still perceive having the option not to use btc
BingoBoingo: Kinda how I ended up in the Home Despot garden department before taking off to Uruguay.
asciilifeform: kinda why i wanted to get the fuck out since long before tmsr. i'm buying hitler's lunch and it's stomach-turning.
asciilifeform: if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
asciilifeform: sure, but it's a theatrical production, with roughly same physical impact as footballism
asciilifeform: they sum to ~0 as tax base, and do ~nuffin
asciilifeform: dunno, they could all die of pox tonight and i suspect the lizards would shrug, less overhead
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem is that not enough bitchslapping of stupid cunts who imagine "their oppinions on #ows" or w/e are sought or even possible as an abstract object. THAT is the true usg, the pile of moron dreamers.
asciilifeform: for all i know, still is, the gears grind slowly
asciilifeform: but to naked eye entirely inexplicable, qatar is possibly 1st or 2nd biggest sponsor of usg idjicy in the goatfuck deserts
mircea_popescu: possibly infantile temper tantrum by whatever nuland cunt they have now.
mircea_popescu: can't say i do either.
asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp the supposed usg feud with qatar -- iirc the latter sank couple $B into usg's 'moderate rebels'
BingoBoingo: If USG had that kind of pull in Qatar why nuclear waste trenches at the border?
asciilifeform: doubtful. but wherever the reich tendrils reach.
asciilifeform: rather than 'allcomer'
mircea_popescu: if it works it must work in the manner of things working.
mircea_popescu: either it works or it doesn't.
mircea_popescu: im curious what'll be the Mocky reports on that.
asciilifeform: the hilarity is that the 'terrorists' ( goat-flavoured orcs ) have 0 prob with the idjicy, they have their hawala
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem with "we'll permit cattle to have their usg.thing and we'll do the right thing" is that why exactly is usg getting the cheap and easy fruit ?
mircea_popescu: then it'll work.
mircea_popescu: gotta start firebombing wu "offices" / shooting anyone trying to work there in the head to interdict their sapping of this market.
mircea_popescu: i expect bulk of the nonsense is still guy runs away to work, wants to send dough back to wife.
asciilifeform: anybody with pile of benjie could do it right nao, simply eat/shit btc on site. but for some reason these folx allergic to btc ? i haven't the faintest idea
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, if local morons still act as if they lived in usg zone, notwithstanding they make 5k a year or so...
mircea_popescu: is eating still permitted in the usgulag, or also meanwhile verboten ?
mircea_popescu: im behind the times.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i mean isn't the point of this whole wu business that you just walk into an office and send someone a few benjies ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 15:57 mircea_popescu: pretty much all the empire shit works by this "only way to get an x is to link an x' to an y' to the x" device. by now it's actually usable as an empire-detecting heuristic.
mircea_popescu: i thought i was being funny with the paypal throwaway.
asciilifeform: i dunno what cockroaches are in the pertinent heads... 'terrorist will never try 2x' ? nfi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform relatively easier to get the few maidens nobody wants to fuck than to press into service the few maidens everyone wants to fuck.
mircea_popescu: about as doable as phones returning to 1950s state of the art. with maidens and spokes.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Will explore those options. I suspect there might be something.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: either that or they'd have to return to 18th c. tax collection methods.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in principle it's possibly healthy, means they're avoiding banks / electrofiatola
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: here EVERYONE uses them
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so there's this "have specialist counter-provider". most electronics stores in orclands will let you pay your utility bills etc. << AHA, abitab, RedPagos, etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have these in usa. they're used by 'cash economy' folx to pay isp etc