mrstickball: I gotta give him a rating shortly. For some reason, he never bothered with garnering a lot of trust via OTC
ThickAsThieves: i'd give him a point for his diligence and seemingly running a Havelock asset better than most, but the more recent terms of his 3POs and such kinda make me hesitant
mircea_popescu: a he got himself into the wot huh. cool.
ThickAsThieves: and been voiced a handful of days since the change
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask the20year!~the20year@50.41.146.185. Trust relationship from user assbot to user the20year: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=the20year | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=the20year | Rated since: never
pankkake: ;;gettrust assbot the20year
ThickAsThieves: he's the RENT guy
gribble: Nick 'the20year', with hostmask 'the20year!~the20year@50.41.146.185', is identified as user 'the20year', with GPG key id 359D91C634AE8E53, key fingerprint DF515FC27907A1FC3236C7E8359D91C634AE8E53, and bitcoin address None
mike_c: ;;ident the20year
ThickAsThieves: the20year, as i hinted i wont voice people that should already know better
assbot: Voicing the20year for 30 minutes.
mrstickball: !up the20year
ozbot: The Devil's Advocate | Telling it like it might be.
fluffypony: Google made a motherboard: https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z131sxrjvwb5hl1xb04chx2ampiaijcaei0
mircea_popescu: seemsmore reasonable this way. if someone judges it prudent to wait a month, or six or sixty, they can
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nah, it'll sell after the first report.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller lol
ThickAsThieves: am i correct in assuming mpif wont be for sale until afte rthe first month of action?
thestringpuller: you being the woodchipper lemmings
pankkake: waiting can be part of the fun
mike_c: the lottery is slow but gets lots of volume for instance
mike_c: that is the tradeoff i have ended up at. although less volume is not necessarily the result, but slower action, yes.
ThickAsThieves: white house logic: "Disclosing a vulnerability can mean that we forego an opportunity to collect crucial intelligence that could thwart a terrorist attack, stop the theft of our nation’s intellectual property, or even discover more dangerous vulnerabilities that are being used by hackers or other adversaries to exploit our networks,"
pankkake: still, you would have to wait for a block for the result
pankkake: though, I was thinking of tweaking it: you have a secret server key still, and the key used to compute the bet result would be secret+lastblock
pankkake: yes, but it has a cost. miners would have to discard their own blocks to win
pankkake: you would need a secret that can not be known in advance by anyone (bettors and investors), but that would be revealed shortly after the bets. so far I only see future block hashes
mircea_popescu: except if you ask it to show it to you, then it always does.
mircea_popescu: but you can see the old hash at will.
mircea_popescu: but you're saying server has a hash for each guy rather than one for all guys
mircea_popescu: RIGHT! so there are in fact two.
mike_c: ok, you get the hash for server secret. you want a new server secret? click a button and it generates a new one, shows you the new hash, and shows you the old secret.
ThickAsThieves: things are actually WORSE for the US
mike_c: but this doesn't break anything. because you can change your secret after the server secret is set.
mircea_popescu: maybe he changed the system ?
mike_c: the point is that you can verify at will (instead of having to wait a day)
ThickAsThieves: so the excercise should change to
mircea_popescu: well either i seriously misunderstood this or else you did.
mike_c: no, the server one
ThickAsThieves: is that to say, it is 100% fair for the bettor
mike_c: um, actually each player gets their own server secret
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves look in his faq, it's explained there.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask the20year!~the20year@50.41.146.185. Trust relationship from user assbot to user the20year: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=the20year | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=the20year | Rated since: never
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot the20year
dignork: ThickAsThieves: when dooglus places a long list of winning bets, who is the loosing side?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves actually that's a valid approach, mike_c's. i'd just like to explore the provably fair angle, from bettors prespective
mike_c: the point being, i am not investing in the code. i am investing in dooglus. and he returned 4% in april.
pankkake: but that means waiting for the results
ThickAsThieves: mike_c thats kinda a wtf argument to the topic
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves there's this user secret.
pankkake: BCB: was, and the offer is now closed, and was never taken
ThickAsThieves: and they just dont know it!
ThickAsThieves: well maybe they made 5%
fluffypony: thus as it stands right now provably fair is "provably making payments", not provably fair in the absolute sense
ThickAsThieves: is it feasible to somehow decentralize the key?
fluffypony: HAH HAH - davout - apparently you're paying the forum moderators to cockblock bitcoinbourse: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583262.msg6454635#msg6454635
BCB: mircea_popescu, the gox ddb dump ends 2013-11-30
mircea_popescu: not from the players.
fluffypony: I agree with ThickAsThieves - I think "provably fair" often means "proving that there are winners and losers"
ThickAsThieves: this may allow some forms of provably fair, but many creative ways to game that otherwise
ThickAsThieves: being that the secret key is still a leak
ThickAsThieves: do you think that it's just moving the goal posts though?
ThickAsThieves: then you can print scratchers and race dogs
mircea_popescu: missing the final three months ?
ThickAsThieves: SEC probly got a complaint, and now they probly also wanna know if Voorhees is still running it
BCB: mircea_popescu, the numbers on the had info do not add up. It is missing early data and the final three months
ThickAsThieves: well, the forum makes it easy
BCB: mircea_popescu, not the complete contents
ThickAsThieves: i found the shavers testimony to be a fun read
mircea_popescu: and to judge by the published trendon shavers proceedings... he apparently (inadvertently ?) destroyed some data
mircea_popescu: anyway, everyone has control of the gox db. it was haxt, remember ?
mircea_popescu: BCB you mean who the mysterious buyer was when vorhees had it delisted ?
ThickAsThieves: mircea_popescu:BCB uh, the entire sd db is publicly in the ledger. --- dammit i signed in just to say this
BCB: mircea_popescu, not the buyers info
mircea_popescu: there wasn't a users db.
BCB: mircea_popescu, not the Users db
BCB: US has control of Gox DB, Trendon Shavers Transactions, SR DB, I'd imagine they have would would like to add Satoshi Dice data to their collection.
BCB: mircea_popescu, I never followed it much. But the Voorhees SEC inquery is interesting
moiety has made the move to forum.lk
mike_c: you were supposed to reload the page.
mike_c: have they switched from calling you mirceau to marcel?
ozbot: [Mpex.co] The Scientology of Bitcoin Finance? | Page 18 | Bitcointa.lk
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/mpex-co-the-scientology-of-bitcoin-finance.198675/page-18#post-5898499
mircea_popescu: i like how you keep them fires stoked lol
mircea_popescu: "Like you say, this has manipulation written all over it. That is the only way to make it work - there is no chance a freely operating system like this would make it past a few weeks before going bankrupt. "
ozbot: [Mpex.co] The Scientology of Bitcoin Finance?
moiety: the Turkmenistani coin could just be any cat really
punkman: ah there's a bunch on ebay
moiety: http://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/36009-500_Manat_Pallas_Cat-Wildlife_Series-Turkmenistan these ones aren't but you need to get the full set
punkman: only 2500 of these
moiety: have you ever seen the fiat manul coins? they don't have good pics on them. i love the nyar pic
Dimsler: rape the labourier?
asciilifeform: the pre-literate? (typo, but good one)
mircea_popescu: the who ?
Dimsler: i don't believe in evicerating the proliteriate
mircea_popescu: getting all the newspapers in a lifetime doesn't take an aggregate of 5 years.
mircea_popescu: this is like the people who spend 5 years to train their dog to get their newspaper.
ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99405 < i must say i fucking love that response.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 500 bucks ... open land in patagonia << once i crack the puzzle of what to eat - and where to plug in - at patagonia (or timisoara, or antarctica, or mars) - there i'll be.
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Look at these salesmen. The only thing these guys fear is the walk-out. No matter what they say, you say, "Ill walk out of here right now!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: build a succession of spacious yurts... when full, build a new one a little off, carry whatever pieces of the old << this is 'cheney's algorithm' for semispace garbage collection. i've always wanted to implement it in meatspace.
kakobrekla: the emails i get.
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe among them are some who can add value, and will.
Dimsler: they don't add any value
Dimsler: the fact that those people are just noise
mircea_popescu: well what's the problem wit hthat ?
Dimsler: they believe bitcoin is going to grow
mircea_popescu: why's this surprising to anyone (other than those derps) is beyond me.
mircea_popescu: petty crime is perhaps (with the exception of an academic career) the worst fucking choice someone could make
Naphex: now i know where all the bad looks come from, ever since i bought a new car
mircea_popescu: criminals don't matter here for the same reason they don't matter irl. if they had any sense they'd find better use of their time.
mircea_popescu: and then... silkroad went away... nobody noticed.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the same sort of bullshit was being peddled about silkroad
Dimsler: they asked her why she was buying bitcoins
Dimsler: there was an old lady standing inline
Dimsler: lol have you not watched the bitcoin atm news cast?
mircea_popescu: the same people who do yachting competitions.
Dimsler: who were the first people to use cars?
mircea_popescu: it's very strange, the same sort of partial thinking keeps people inside the grinder in, on both ends.
Dimsler: is the amway pyramid scheme
Dimsler: the instant rebuttle i get here
Dimsler: since everyone is already cheating taxes to the max
mircea_popescu: but yet they drive. it's beyond me.
mircea_popescu: work 8 hours to the liter ? wtf.
mircea_popescu: me either.
Dimsler: i have no idea how the locals are affording things at this point
Dimsler: crazy to the max
Naphex: yellow for whatever, and other color codes
Naphex: and the datavalidates, it can easily show green on a client
mircea_popescu: and it also goes to jurov's q as to the diff between pki and nanowot.
mircea_popescu: but my point is narrower : that no wot can stand on its own. one of the manyt reasons pki is broken by design, not the most visible one but quite fundamental.
mircea_popescu: well yes, now they can, because you've leveraged the public forum to strengthen the wot.
Naphex: and now they can just get it from bitcoin-assets log
Naphex: if you don't resign the zone, it's invalid
mircea_popescu: so i'm dns, i replace all of them.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: so the zonefile is signed, pub key published. addresses sign domain alias and domain pub key. alias gets published
jurov: you are already, and i hereby anoint you to the Most Noble MPEx Trolls Order
fluffypony: how do I apply to be part of the Troll Board?
jurov: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/249ix0/accounting_for_the_amazing_company_the/ lol pankkake your reputation is ahead of you
fluffypony: VanCleef: well I won't be plugging any funds into SeedCoin, but I do think that the TagPesa guy at least has some idea of what he's doing
VanCleef: they've been behind so many bitcoin scams
fluffypony: TagPesa responded well to my criticisms. I actually hope they accomplish what they want to in spite of their involvement with SeedScam.
Naphex: ideally you could just save the KSK
Naphex: you should be validating requests before, so if you mitm the serv requests would fail
mircea_popescu: fluffypony lmao the ineptitude.
fluffypony: BitNews responded to the points I raised re: their SeedCoin II fundraising - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=587908.0 - "Thank you for your feedback. We’ll take your comments on board and carry on! Don’t stay tuned for now. We’ll keep you posted when appropriate."
punkman: mircea_popescu: just selling other people's stuff, using a lot of these marketplaces and networks and whatnot
punkman: mircea_popescu: I'll give it some thought then, I have like 9-10 years of experience in aff things
jurov: nanotube, why you can't for now just add a column to the database and a way to put signature(rating,message) there?
mircea_popescu: jurov: i guess they shorting was "omitted" from mastercoin protocol << lol. because anyone can do anything they set their mind to. including design of stuff they never used irl.
mircea_popescu: jurov afaik he has been working (for the past two years) towards a distributed system
jurov: but he can be hacked.. i'd trust it fully *if* rating consisted of signing the recipient's gpg addy
mircea_popescu: more importantly, that his ability to absorb scandal is nil. all it takes is one single merchant attacked by him providing fake ids to someone and that's the end.
VanCleef: hmm i cant see the SF2 IPO being filled anytime soon
mircea_popescu: jurov for me, that nanotube i trust. in general, that there exist no documented cases of a hijack.
jurov: mircea_popescu: how is the appeal onto nanotube's wot website different from running whois?
mircea_popescu: Curious_George http://www.gpg4win.org/ there, you can dld that thing play around with it see what it does.
VanCleef: ok i still don't get it but thanks for the ups
cazalla: mircea_popescu: amongst other things (domaining, seo blah blah) but not for some years now
mircea_popescu: jurov your address is in the wot.
mircea_popescu: gpg is a gnu implementation of pgp, which is the original public key cryptoi system
jurov: sooo why the bitcoin-assets donation addy isn't gpg signed? haaa?
mircea_popescu: much like they wonder about mpoe atm.
mircea_popescu: and then wonder why is bitcoin so expensive since "nobody" buys it or holds it ?
mircea_popescu: then everyone can move on to doge or maxcoin or w/e scam du jour, much more adequate for their needs and abilities,
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is limtied in supply, soon enough all the noobies will have no bitcoin at all, and problem solved.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: the problem is we come full circle back to the adoption problem - as much as you want to keep Bitcoin in the hands of the techno-competent, it is going to spread, and the n00bs are going to need n00bish solutions because they aren't going to learn to use GPG no matter how often people get hacked / lose money
mircea_popescu: because "dictionary" or whatever. which is fine, but also, killing them is the general goal of entropy.
mircea_popescu: it's just that some [mostly irrelevant] people have decided they don't want to apply the solutionb.
mircea_popescu: i mean it's not like the problem doesn't have a perfect solution alreayd.
mircea_popescu: on one hand, having a third party involved in any bitcoin transaction, in any way, is breaking the protocol. on the other hand, the pki/dns infrastructure is beyond rotten. tying it into any sort of live project is like taking a spleen off a rotting cadaver and putting it into someone's gut.
BohemianHacks: part of the risk involved with any crime is loss of freedom, the value of the is completely subjective
mircea_popescu: same principle. don't use a public service of a large provider that has the power to survive you in the market.
mircea_popescu: Naphex: you could just use google pub dns servers, and place some trust on them, they support dnssec << myeah. some people learned the hard way why not trust linode. it cost them 40k btc or so, linode offered a half-apology and $50 in vouchers.
mircea_popescu: BohemianHacks: after you turn 18 cyber crime risk out weighs the reward, even if your morals dont stop you << well, my curiosity continues. how did you compute that ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: except it wasn't the dude that started/owned Dragon's Tale << that was a riot. tepi's face lol.
punkman: I like mp's definition better than the dictionary
BohemianHacks: Clearly im the arrogant one here.
fluffypony: punkman: buy ALL of the advertizings. ALL of it.
mircea_popescu: BohemianHacks you aware what the best description of this chan is, according to chan consensus so far ?
mircea_popescu: punkman im still waiting for the psychanalist to go into massive bitcoin exploratory expedxitions.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah, i just maxed the pedantry scale did i ?
mircea_popescu: similarly today, the only thing the city poor / welfare bunnies fear is the 19th century capitalist
mircea_popescu: then the merchants stole it, because at the time the only thing the town merchant feared was the soldier, so he wanted to steal his stuff.
BohemianHacks: meh, this is a waste of time. I get you are trying to prove a point about safe investing, but thats the definition of the word. Buying tons of lotto tickets is dumb, but it IS investing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to continue the saga of the poor word "invest" : originally, it denoted the act of comitting your army to a siege. which was, expensive and dangerous a proceeding.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: don't be too pedantic with the newbies :-P
mircea_popescu: "the dictionary" is meaningless.
BohemianHacks: "expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture."
BohemianHacks: "the profession or science dealing with the prevention and treatment of diseases and malformations of the teeth, gums, and oral cavity, and the removal, correction, and replacement of decayed, damaged, or lost parts, including such operations as the filling and crowning of teeth, the straightening of teeth, and the construction of artificial dentures. "
mircea_popescu: once the punches start flrying
mircea_popescu: well sure, i guess in the sense of, "good dentistry" is what happens at the dentist's office, and plain dentistry is what happens at the bare
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I think the word has been coopted by the Jimmothy School of Smart Investmenting
mircea_popescu: BohemianHacks you can't, for the following reason : in order for something t obe an investment, it requires two things. a) that you've done research and b) that the research indicates +EV.
BohemianHacks: "expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture."
mircea_popescu: this poor word invest. it happens to be a term of art in finance, of course, but it's been (recently, since the internet) been coopted as a colloquialism
BohemianHacks: no, you are investing your coin in the hope to get a return
mircea_popescu: so in the sense of "stuff to do with bitcoin" ?
BohemianHacks: because they are both coin investment platforms, thats pretty similar
mircea_popescu: fluffypony well maybe he gets through the logs.
mircea_popescu: BohemianHacks so i'm very curious, how did you proceed to come to the idea that mpex and cryptostocks are in any sense tyhe same thing, or in any way comparable ?
mircea_popescu: good cause i think many people don't. to judge by the banks etc at least.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony but that is the github of someone named thus.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: nickserv says otherwise