asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unless i misunderstand, real book transmuting to fake history is detectable with the only slightly non-naked eye
dub: thestringpuller: sup
kakobrekla: moiety if you were talking about ba wiki , go ahead and plod, thats why its there.
asciilifeform: why anyone should wish to do this, is another matter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't say about the others, but 'btc-e' faking volume is a testable hypothesis.
moiety: i'm roaming around the wiki
kakobrekla: at least thats their reasoning imo
kakobrekla: the difference is that hitbtc is not china afaik, taub .
taub: yet bitcoincharts wont rank houbi, but they'll rank this ;D
mircea_popescu: taub what's in the graph ?
mircea_popescu: the internet is, practically speaking, a collection of frogs and cicadas arguing as to which one set is the true operatic singer.
taub: what a joke, constant trades average size of 0.5 that happen between the spread outta nowhere
mircea_popescu: check out the ud bias lol.
mircea_popescu: so today i learned that mra is a thing. and in the process :
mircea_popescu: i imagine on the mid term nyc will be more like paris huh
mircea_popescu: o, i forgot they did that.
BingoBoingo: They always have, it's why NYC get a commie mayor.
mircea_popescu: "CNBC Correspondent, alum @NYUStern (MBA) and @MiamiUniversity, country music & college football enthusiast --- livin' the NYC dream but forever a proud Ohioan"
BingoBoingo: taub: They let Mao down too. It happens.
BingoBoingo: When that happens, then bitcoin may once again proceed towards moon.
BingoBoingo: Some time in the next week someone's going to be sending me PPUSD, prolly need to start scouting people I can unload them on.
taub: or we go below 380 then srs trouble
taub: getting chopped trying to find the end to this slump, buying too early :/
mircea_popescu: the list doesn't end.
mircea_popescu: stamp, btc-e, all the play-pretend stock exchanges in history, from glbse onwards, and definitely all the "greatest best first ever" blablas.
mircea_popescu: with the exception of mpex, everyone is.
mircea_popescu: taub you need to get rated by someone in assbot's l2, then id with gribble and pm assbot !up
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user taub: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=taub | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=taub | Rated since: never
mircea_popescu: fluffypony so opened on feb 8th at 0.025, peaked at .1, then piefaced towards 0.015ish. is it dead ?
mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/vertcoin/comments/24prud/vertpay_is_doing_the_very_first_vertcoin_based_ipo/
asciilifeform: what results - left as exercise for the alert reader / experimenter.
asciilifeform: so long as you follow this and other safety formulae (all electrodes below the belt) you can get some... interesting results. males, females both.
ryepdx: mircea_popescu: Thanks for the tip.
mircea_popescu cuts out the .org and adds a dot before lk in that link, to get https://bitcointa.lk/index.php?topic=99497.msg6465166#msg6465166 which readily resolves to https://bitcointa.lk/threads/asicminer-entering-the-future-of-asic-mining-by-inventing-it.61268/page-972#post-6169327 on a much better forum.
ryepdx: Hiro2: Not sure if this went through the first time, as I'm having connectivity issues. The reason (AFAIK) was to raise capital to produce their next-gen miners and chips. The next round of dividends are projected to come out on May 27th, at which point they'll be moving to a monthly dividend schedule. Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg6465166#msg6465166
asciilifeform: electric burns of the mucosa << easily confused for electrolytic burns (h2o splits, salt present, hcl. yuck.) to avoid this, use strictly alternating current (no dc bias.)
mircea_popescu: <fluffypony> wasn't there a kick up recently about Havelock not actually being registered in Panama? << yes.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller tumblr is for pronz
mircea_popescu: <pankkake> try the electrified butt plugs << actually those are kinda bad for you. there is such a thing as electric burns of the mucosa.
pankkake: their finances aren't very transparent right now :/
pankkake: as far as I know, there's not enough revenue to
davout: see, if marketing was about communicating precise and factual information, then it wouldn't be marketing anymore
davout: if you're a retard that doesn't have a clue you'll take it at face value, if you know what the reactor pattern is and how evented IO is nice you'll read between the lines
fluffypony: so they should pitch it like that
fluffypony: but it's the reactor pattern that rocks
fluffypony: davout: they're saying node.js is fast/scalable/efficient because it's powered by a browser technology
davout: fluffypony: it's actually the reactor pattern that rocks
fluffypony: wasn't there a kick up recently about Havelock not actually being registered in Panama?
BingoBoingo: For blogging the right tool, is usually, probably going to be some wordpress thing.
Mats_cd03: idk anything about the web
fluffypony: "Node.js is the platform which powers Ghost. Being built on Chrome's JavaScript runtime, makes it fast, scalable, and incredibly efficient."
Mats_cd03: thestringpuller: digitalocean + Ghost (a blogging thingmajig) works pretty well for me
Mats_cd03: its really not terribly special other than the edge case where you need all the cognitive performance you can get while sustaining on low sleep
Mats_cd03: i dont experience much (<25%) cognitive decline after 24 hours when i temper it with provigil across the same period
thestringpuller: thestringpuller.tumblr.com
fluffypony: thestringpuller: do it
thestringpuller: how to use the pomodoro
fluffypony: Mats_cd03: I found I was having a nap in the afternoon
thestringpuller: these kids an provigil
fluffypony: but outside of that I drop 100mg Provigil in the morning and I'm fine
BCB: thestringpuller: bitcoin is over
fluffypony: otherwise I work on something for 5 minutes and then get distracted by this other thing I need to do
fluffypony: thestringpuller
thestringpuller: how do you guys feel about the Pomodoro technique
pankkake: try the electrified butt plugs
asciilifeform: 'in the future, all chairs shall be electric.'
Mats_cd03: why does everything have to be electric is the better question
Azelphur: BCB: got a friend of mine and aldur1 coming down, gonna raise the collective IQ of the town by a few points.
ozbot: The Heart Brain
BCB: Another Trendon Shavers
BCB: My favorite quote “we don’t do any verification” and “we’re not the paperwork police.”
BCB: Azelphur: "investor alert" http://investor.gov/news-alerts/investor-alerts/investor-alert-bitcoin-other-virtual-currency-related-investments#.U2qfJfk7u-3
BCB: anyone see the California Lawyer Bitcoin article
BCB: anyone see the SEC investor warning
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic they pissed everyone off with their appaling treatment of the lzw patent
dub: I know wat unisys are, the ultimate consultancy
mircea_popescu: at the time it was a big deal.
mircea_popescu: this old company, sort-of like a jpmorgan of the 90s.
mircea_popescu: and these are 1993 dollars, pre 5 or so bubbles. prolly 5k in today's obamadollars.
mircea_popescu: I've talked with Unisys by voice and E-mail, and the voice discussion was entirely unsatisfactory as I posted when it happened - basically the Unisys guy said anyone who sells code for $100-$300 a pop was a total _____ for selling it that cheap.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller proll
BingoBoingo: Could drink now and completely blow the liver being on all of these antibiotics, or wait this out and drink fruitfully long into the future.
thestringpuller: new blog posts will be coming then? :)
BingoBoingo: At least I've been able to sit down these past few days.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: That's a good question. I'm kind of delaying the issue atm due to some medical stuff. Busch should be fine though.
fluffypony: funroll-all-the-loops!
ozbot: The Devil's Advocate - Home
turbo_ac100: kakobrekla: Hey what about showing the weight of bets in the middle of the betboxmetadiv s on the mainpage?
joecool: and linux couldn't make up its mind on what wireless stack to adopt (there were like 6 or 7)
joecool: i ended up on obsd for a couple years on my laptop cause they had the best reverse engineered wifi drivers
joecool: i think i remember looking at doing fbsd, but then i figured gentoo would be better for desktop
joecool: the firewall is sweet on it
mircea_popescu: gave the texans quite a scare.
mircea_popescu: "we are not the identity police" etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you recall the lulz that was ?
ozbot: Investor Alert: Bitcoin and Other Virtual Currency-Related Investments | Investor.gov
ThickAsThieves: http://investor.gov/news-alerts/investor-alerts/investor-alert-bitcoin-other-virtual-currency-related-investments#.U2pjHPldV8F
ozbot: URME SURVEILLANCE: Developing Devices to Protect the Public | Indiegogo
ThickAsThieves: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/urme-surveillance-developing-devices-to-protect-the-public
benkay: morning, thestringpuller
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: Check out the #nigger : ...
chetty: gubermint saying they failed to pay proper vigoresh
mircea_popescu: splendid document of what the absolutely normal teenager is, does, and looks like.
ozbot: The Biggest Douchebag On Vine - YouTube
mircea_popescu: "Susans interest in crypto currency flows naturally from her abiding love of social media, the Internet and the environment."
mircea_popescu: canada trying hard to make sure it won't exist in the future huh.
ozbot: Saskatchewan Mining Company Hit with Cease Trade Order | The CoinFront | Bitcoin News
nubbins`: sweet, let's get 2bn chinese and pakistani kids together and throw a rave
nubbins`: "out of the worlds population of 7 billion, 3.6 billion are under the age of 30, and 2 billion are millennials."
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves money is the concern atm
Apocalyptic: yw, also there was some periods of downtime, so don't expect an exhaustive log
mircea_popescu: from the same link
mircea_popescu: nanotube "It is important to remember that the score associated to a relationship does not mark the direct trust of the scorer for the scoree, but merely the scorers confidence that the information he has about scoree is correct, accurate, relevant and complete. All four."
artifexd: Would you be willing to share? Specifically the logs from #bitcoin-otc-ratings.
mircea_popescu: way, by making the values of 0-100 mean "percent of current world GDP
mircea_popescu: because im not happy with the The contract operationalizes the trust values in a currency-neutral
mircea_popescu: pigeons you read the http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ ?
fluffypony: will that break compatibility with the existing WoT?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: trust, but verify is also why eventual consistency is so deeply buried at the root of practical business.
ThickAsThieves: i suppose not, assuming they are logged by several trustworthy parties
mircea_popescu: trust, but verify is the recipe to perfect security.
ThickAsThieves: what if the logs are a lie
ThickAsThieves: or is otherwise difficult to detect
ThickAsThieves: what if the compromise is more insidious
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> what if nanotube dies, gribble gets compromised and farts all over the ratings << we got teh logs ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` there was this guy tryhing to get a music festival going earlier.
fluffypony: nubbins`: is that for trimming the edges off a stack of magazines/posters/whatever?
ThickAsThieves: what if nanotube dies, gribble gets compromised and farts all over the ratings
nubbins`: shopping for a stack cutter these days, looking at the Dahle 842: http://www.crddistribution.ca/images/cuttingSolutions/842_stack.jpg
chetty: well sun may not rise in the morning, got to stop doubt somewhere
Apocalyptic: <ThickAsThieves> if gribble decides to lie much more is fucked than the log // he has a point
mircea_popescu: but if nobody is doing things like keeping the log
ThickAsThieves: if gribble decides to lie much more is fucked than the log
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you know sooner or later you'll have to make the plunge and learn how to make a bot
ThickAsThieves: for people to dl and parse however they like
ThickAsThieves: nanotube, what if you just post a file of the historical log
fluffypony: what if ratings changes were added to ;;events then?
ThickAsThieves: like the wayback machine
davout: ThickAsThieves: well, then why would it need solving ?
nanotube: fluffypony: well, we'd have to discuss the details of implementation first... and whether it's worth it at all. what exactly is the source of your need for historical data?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: but then we're back to what davout said, solving a problem that doesn't exist
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves> "Obviously, a criminal justice system that punished only those who volunteered for punishment was unworkable << this is what the contemporary thinks.
ThickAsThieves: the issue is spam
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: well atm the db is 3mb, so I don't see it growing massively - double-ish that size if every single rating was updated:-P
HeySteve: the problem is imposing costs means you have to set costs, meaning you can't avoid (dis)incentivisation
HeySteve: imposing costs for certain actions turns the WoT into something of a business, I'd favour that way to limit spam
ThickAsThieves: rather than historical
ThickAsThieves: then it becomes a backup system
ThickAsThieves: if db bloat is a real problem, then treat it like backups, 1 yearly, 1 monthly, 1 weekly, 1 daily
fluffypony: nanotube: if I get a bit of time I can make the changes and submit a PR?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves, davout: why not? what's the use-case for multiple changes a day?
HeySteve: spamming changes could bloat the archive, it might be good to have a time limit or cost
fluffypony: nanotube: ok then why not shift historical ratings into an archived rating table? that way the main ratings table doesn't bloat, but the historical data is still around
nanotube: well, i have logs... but i didn't think it would be useful to bloat the db with historical crud.
punkman: I remember seeing a link for dowloading the data in bulk on -otc.com, was it deprecated?
fluffypony: we're struggling with the lack of historical ratings when people change ratings
fluffypony: nanotube: why don't you insert ratings into the table instead of updating them, and then just use a subquery to group by rated_user_id / rater_user_id when getting data?
ThickAsThieves: from the wiki on peine forte et dure:
mircea_popescu: HeySteve "certainly, the welfare state sucks. it incentivizes behaviour."
HeySteve: certainly, the welfare state sucks. it incentivizes behaviour which is harmful to the society
mircea_popescu: but anyway, since we're doing great covnersation : someone should write an essay on the possibility - in principle - of distinguishing between "common good" and "groupthink". writer out criteria, give me a method, break that shit up.
HeySteve: thus the argument against central authority is less meaningful. there are rules individuals agree to abide by
mircea_popescu: HeySteve the only reason i comment is because you seemed to want to know why i wouldn't use it.
HeySteve: hmm well, in the context I propose incentivising certain behaviours and taxing others, there is no central authority doing it. there is the code which people are free to use
mircea_popescu: hugely compelx anthropotopic, this. and i am not actually arguing against clothes per se
ThickAsThieves: (clothes)
ThickAsThieves: how wearing clothes shapes humanity
mircea_popescu: that's the myth of #fiat-asses.
ThickAsThieves: that's a whole other (probably great) conversation
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as collective anything.
HeySteve: well, there is a collective good. individuals function within social boundaries
ThickAsThieves: one day you invent the coupon, 20 years later you have an economy bent on quantity over quality
HeySteve: it's about leading individuals to choices you consider to be in their best interest
mircea_popescu: the only thing that matters.
HeySteve: maybe the country is low on population growth for eg
mircea_popescu: for it to be bad, it suffices that there is one case where it's bad.
HeySteve: I agree it has great application to politics, yet I still don't see why incentivising people to join the WoT is bad
HeySteve: <DinoSaw> not vote for them today, giving them free reign to break their promises and do wtf they like / get paid to do for the next X years
HeySteve: <DinoSaw> people's influence should rise and fall in accordance with their reputation, based on their recent actions
mircea_popescu: it's been the curse of the humancondition, this, for most times and places most bipedal life forms were bios rather than zoon
HeySteve: well, I was discussing the failings of democracy elsewhere as it's SA election day today
mircea_popescu: to a large degree it already is, in the offices that matter anyway.
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, in theory but in practical usage today, it's mostly for the Bitcoin community
ThickAsThieves: i believe we discussed similar ideas in the past
mircea_popescu: HeySteve not that narrow. the wot holds all trust in human society. all of it.
mircea_popescu: Naphex gotta love the gpg-centric view lol
HeySteve: perhaps Bitcoin trade, no S would have been nearer the mark
ozbot: Web of trust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Apocalyptic: mircea, <HeySteve> another issue I forsee with rating of unregistered parties, is people extending the scope of the WoT beyond its intended purpose of recording Bitcoin trades. people will use it to downrate TV characters from soap operas
ThickAsThieves: well it's the bitcoin-otc WoT
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic whence the quote ?
Apocalyptic: since when is the scope "recording Bitcoin trades" only ?
Apocalyptic: " is people extending the scope of the WoT beyond its intended purpose of recording Bitcoin trades"
mircea_popescu: that is the specific objections, fo reals.
HeySteve: yes, but what's the specific objection?
mircea_popescu: if no wot identity is involved, the thing's irrelevant economically, might as well be two somalis trading cowries
mircea_popescu: all purported economic activity that's not taking place between wot registered identities is deffective. if only one wot identity is involved, the whoile thing is in no substantial manner different from the medieval relations between peon and his lord.
ThickAsThieves: we invite them to join it when we think to
ThickAsThieves: surely there are people that dont know about or how to WoT, they we trust to be in our ecomonic sphere
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves are people who will sell you a house/car but not sign a contract also part of the real estate/car markets
davout: chetty: deal with something on the wot at your own risk too!
mircea_popescu: next youi're going to claim the us is part of human culture, just, not the elitist part of it.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is like saying women that don't have sex are part of the dating market, just not my elitist subsection of it
HeySteve: I'm thinking there's a whole raft of WoT-related improvements only possible with some degree of hierarchial organisation
ThickAsThieves: just not the economy you can trust
mircea_popescu: force them to wot as part and parcel of doing business with them, know that their refusal to comply means they're scammers.
chetty: deal with something not on the wot at your own risk
mircea_popescu: anyweay davout's argument is souind : if they had no wot they were not part of the economy in the first place.
HeySteve: another issue I forsee with rating of unregistered parties, is people extending the scope of the WoT beyond its intended purpose of recording Bitcoin trades. people will use it to downrate TV characters from soap operas
mircea_popescu: they don't belong mixed and so can't mix.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem : clueless people are trying to mix forum into pg.
chetty: I suppose the whole internet functions as a punishment gazette
ThickAsThieves: i suppose there is a more broken up punishment gazette, the blogosphere and forums etc
mircea_popescu: <punkman> ThickAsThieves: well there's Paypal for example, but how is that useful http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=paypal << hardly useful tbh. just people using the wot to blog. they could have blogged better on a blog, or on twitter.
ThickAsThieves: so a roaming criminal never gets jailed cuz he doesnt recognize the authority?
mircea_popescu: but you askled "since when", when in point of fact it was always the case. only recently have courst strayed into this heresy that they have authority to judge over unwilling participants.
HeySteve: the question then becomes who would hold the keys to the placeholder identity? seeing as that identity will also be able to rate people. so what happens if "PayPal" downvotes you?
ThickAsThieves: it is whether it makes sense for it to be a requirement
ThickAsThieves: the question isnt has it ever happened
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> you see, if the WoT is a punishment gazette, since when do criminals register for such themselves? << since forever. read up on "peine forte et dure" ?