gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask bitstein!48b66859@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.182.104.89. Trust relationship from user assbot to user bitstein: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=bitstein | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bitstein | Rated since: Thu May 29 11:37:42 2014
fluffypony: he needs a pat on the back and a cookie, he did an excellent job
fluffypony: bitstein: the appcoins smackdown was your article, no?
Pierre_Rochard: yes, we went to college together
mircea_popescu: you two know each other ?
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask tsukino!tsukino@unaffiliated/tsukino. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user assbot to user usagi: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -4 via 6 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=usagi | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=usagi | Rated since: Mon Jun 18 12:33:55 2012
mircea_popescu: this may be the first time in human history that actual problems of fundamental math can be experimentally tested ;/
mircea_popescu: im regarding it purely as a graph theory / algebraic structures isse
Pierre_Rochard: enemy of my enemy is my friend vs. scammers scamming scammers. I think the latter makes more sense in the context of trust relationships
mircea_popescu: it's actually very deep because it has fundamental graph theory implications
mircea_popescu: suppose you -1 someone and that someone -1s someone else. should you have 0 or -1 l2 with the someone else ?
mircea_popescu: i wonder if the current treatment of neg trust over l2 composition is to ignore the 2nd layer negs or to convey them
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask tsukino!tsukino@unaffiliated/tsukino. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user usagi: Level 1: -1, Level 2: 1 via 11 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=usagi | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=usagi | Rated since: Mon Jun 18 12:33:55 2012
gribble: You rated user usagi on Sat Nov 24 19:40:40 2012, with a rating of -1, and supplied these additional notes: None.
mircea_popescu: that thread is quite the comedy goldmine.
fluffypony: he's garnished us all with the negrate salt
Pierre_Rochard: it’s worn by thieves around the world
fluffypony: Pierre_Rochard: great comments in the appcoins article
chetty: yeah but not on the front page, and so forth
Mats_cd03: words otherwise are empty and do not describe reality accurately
Mats_cd03: the govt has always been willing to negotiate with terrorists
mircea_popescu: happens to the best of us.
fluffypony: save the environment, buy energy efficient lightbulbs that come in packaging like this: http://i.imgur.com/7Xh1Hwa.jpg
mircea_popescu: "it'll be our gift to you, the biggest diamond we could find for some random anon swine. long live socialism! everything's equal to everything else!"
chetty: the headlines are very loud about it breaking the law too, for what little thats worth these days
mircea_popescu: i guess coming up next week, obama promises the us will never use its nuclear arsenal, as part of the inauguration of a primary school in a provincial town in kenya.
mircea_popescu: i tell you, they cut the most important policy pillar over nothing ?! it's beyond comedic.
Mats_cd03: walked off a base then gets two soldiers killed in ensuing rescue ops
chetty: yeah except for the target now on our backs
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the real world... i guess the secretary of state better be careful traveling.
mircea_popescu: weak hand administration probably figured "it's win-win" because they give up five worthless towelheads which had to be kept at a per day cost far exceeding the cost to rent a private jet.
chetty: Sergeant Bergdahl's recovery is a reminder of America's unwavering commitment to leave no man or woman in uniform behind on the battlefield.
mircea_popescu: dude this should be a book. every chapter's title could be "and here we punch ourselves in the face for no reason whatsoever"
mircea_popescu: who's the presidential bff
mircea_popescu: who did they trade ?
chetty: Five of the Most Dangerous Taliban Commanders in U.S. Custody Exchanged for American Captive// well americans everywhere are screwed now, us has given up no negotiations policy
mircea_popescu: everyone can has a million dolla these days. even people affraid of forum retaliationz
mircea_popescu: there is many dodgy scam things going on at asicminer which has personally costs me over a million dollars"
mircea_popescu: "ex board member here using an anonymous alias so i will not receive backlash from other board members or friedcat
mircea_popescu: like, firs tweek, one pm a day per person. next week, two. then four. ETC!!11
pankkake: yes; while petty theft is not my concern targeted attacks can
mircea_popescu: so then do you backup your pw ?
mircea_popescu: pankkake: my point is just that n+1 is much better than n; just a game of probabilities << yeah, the game works like this : the more backups you have the more avenues for theft. the fewer backups you have, the more avenues for accidental loss.
fluffypony: then having a million site and customer backups won't help us to continue functioning immediately
assbot: When God Grabs You By the Balls
BingoBoingo: OMG Gawker has an essay about adversity I can relate to (after the shitty intro) http://gawker.com/when-god-grabs-you-by-the-balls-1584192836/all
fluffypony: I was thinking more about some of my business units where physical stock would be destroyed and the logistics chain would disappear
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: yep - and the reality is that a natural disaster that destroys a city will probably affect your business' ability to function anyway << this is, again, the nonsense i was rejecting.
mircea_popescu: the people who can't afford to call to australia are mary-sue-ing
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: I need to threaten someone << no, you just need to infiltrate the command centers of your would be "enemies" and then lead on their nonsense for lulz and butthurt.
mircea_popescu: assbot: Joshua Zipkin of AMT (Advance Mining Technologies) threaten to kill a fellow Bitcoiner. : Bitcoin << so is this going to be the talking point of the militant us left for the remainder of 2014 ? "bitcoin is bad because bitcoiners kill people" ?
mircea_popescu: artifexd: asciilifeform: Exactly why I'd like to offload that to someone else. << lol i'm sure you';re the first that thought of that :D
assbot: Bergdahl release arrangement could threaten the safety of Americans, Republicans say - The Washington Post
chetty: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bergdahl-release-arrangement-could-threaten-the-safety-of-americans-republicans-say/2014/05/31/35e47a2a-e8ff-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_print.html
fluffypony: [14:32:39] ThomasV: actually I believe I gave my business card to a journalist from coindesk during the amsterdam conference
fluffypony: [14:30:36] ThomasV: they sent it to my research address, with a deadline for answering
fluffypony: [14:29:35] ThomasV: I saw that email well after they sent it, because they did not use my normal email address
fluffypony: what's really funny is this line: "The person behind Electrum, one of the other five wallets, also failed to respond."
mircea_popescu: fluffypony, lol that'll go over well im sure. their userbase is just as cash strapped.
mircea_popescu: that's why they have capital controls in place. it has nothing to do with banking. it has to do with how helpless the avearage argentine is. in an open competition with the rest of the world, it'd take about three weeks to bleed the country dry.
mircea_popescu: i am literally getting a billion dollar idea a day just walking down the fucking street and noticing that wait, they actually don't have x ? bwahahahaha etc.
mircea_popescu: if you can't make a million here, there's something seriously wrong with your head.
mircea_popescu: argentina is an incredibly rich country populated by the most pompous, clueless, ineffective and ineffectual people i have encounter in my entire life, travelling five continents.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Still moonstruck by the beef?
jurov: Mats_cd03: they asked us about 1BTC depending on placement ... either it's just opening of the negotiations
jurov: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--k5UKXJctow/U4oM6quBZFI/AAAAAAAAAPM/-DjBJ7reve0/w957-h1431-no/P1040300.JPG do you know how much they ask for one tile?
assbot: The Oh Hellos - Hello My Old Heart - YouTube
assbot: Lay Me Down - The Oh Hello's - YouTube
assbot: Solar FREAKIN Roadways, are they real? - YouTube
pankkake: and losing the funds would be devastating
pankkake: depends on the business, something like say Bitbet would be only temporary
fluffypony: yep - and the reality is that a natural disaster that destroys a city will probably affect your business' ability to function anyway
pankkake: and since they're not done the same way, it really would have to a catastrophic failure to lose it
fluffypony: we've been mingling the two
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pankkake: ;;later tell mircea_popescu storing your only two backups in the same city is no doubt risky, but still it's unlikely that you manage to salvage none if case of a natural disaster. one of the reasons I don't think paper is the ultimate backup though
artifexd: Eh. Nothing major. I wrote some software many years ago that still sells enough to make it worth my time to keep the website up. Making purchases go straight to bitcoin would be nice.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask poutine!poutine@the.infamous.poutine.pw. Trust relationship from user benkay to user poutine: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=poutine | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=poutine | Rated since: never
benkay: what are you doing with the unwashed masses, artifexd ?
artifexd: Sadly, the current state of the unwashed masses on the internet is that if one wants their money, one must deal with the credit card networks.
benkay: if btc is - and fiat is + then plastic is chaos and on an entirely different axis orthogonal to both crypto and fiat somehow
artifexd: Unfortunately they don't take plastic. Only wire transfers and forms of money-by-mail.
asciilifeform: artifexd: anyone who collects fiat from the 'unwashed masses' is a candidate for 'having problems' eventually.
artifexd: There are many payment processors that take bitcoin and give the seller fiat. I'd like to see a payment processor that takes fiat and gives the seller btc.
assbot: AN/DRC-8 Emergency Rocket Communications System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: re: elevator locks: a few years ago, a photo of a new york elevator key was posted on the net. people promptly rushed to their cnc lathes...
TheNewDeal: asciilifeform how did you know about chicago elevators? Is that were you reside? I'm working in Chicago for the next week...
asciilifeform: missile lock is ceremonial item. in both american and russian procedural manuals, one turn-key is instructed to compel the other by force of arms if he refuses to carry out his half of the ritual.
asciilifeform: the lock, as all locks, 'keeps honest man honest'
decimation: Because you know the weak link in your undrground missile silo with 10 ton doors is ... the missile launch lock
decimation: there was some dumb tv show like pawn stars or something like that where some guy was trying to sell a "missile key" for $30k if I recall
asciilifeform: because now we have the net.
TheNewDeal: mircea_popescu I've been trying to find a list of premine / scamcoins that you provided in the past. It was in a wikipedia format. Can't find it in the logs
mircea_popescu: pankkake, the "if both your house and your bank burn down you don't care" theory is pure nonsense.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: dark secret: mp studied maths, physics
decimation: implementing a turing machine would just re-invent the cpu model
decimation: Yeah I guess you can wire the address lines for the input to link to the outputs you want to simulate
mircea_popescu: <TheNewDeal> mp actually helped design that? didn't know he had that know-how << i'm really good at piggybacking on people's work.
asciilifeform: decimation: the most basic 'jungle fpga' is just your ordinary ROM.
asciilifeform: card sorter - so you don't have to kill the fellow who dropped a deck.
TheNewDeal: oh my gosh, just talked to t his electrician the other day that told me he used to do maintenance on card sorters, like IBM's 074. Just thought I'd toss that in on the topic of old hardware
asciilifeform: decimation: until the late '70s, all cpu designs were of this kind
decimation: the idea of swapping out a card in your CPU is amusing to me
asciilifeform: afaik they still have it in a closet somewhere.
assbot: D-17B - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: your last comment about discrete logic lead me to research the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-17B
TheNewDeal: is this about the NSA dealio?
asciilifeform: decimation: i'll helpfully point out where this line of thought ends: if you can't re-create the device in its entirety from the published docs, it isn't worth using.
decimation: the next problem: they have an auditable RNG, but how do you know they are actually using it?
asciilifeform: decimation: there is no arcane secret in building a decent analogue rng.
asciilifeform: $100k if you know a fellow who owns the above and trust him.
decimation: they could use a revese-biased external diode with an A/D or comperator or whatever
asciilifeform: decimation: now the cost of auditing device becomes $10mil.
asciilifeform: decimation: pretty much everyone fucks the goat right off the starting line - by using a vlsi rng
decimation: USG doesn't share either: http://www.samm.dsca.mil/loanote/communication-security-comsec-transmission-security-transec-devices-sold-fms-for-integration
mircea_popescu: so what is to gain from this jerking in this circle as opposed to others?
asciilifeform: aside from this, even a hypothetically impregnable seal is an attack against the owner (he cannot examine the package either)
decimation: if your crypto wasn't designed to defeat someone who knows everything about how it works, then you are not in the crypto business
joecool: covers the rust
decimation: this is true, and even the pros know it
asciilifeform: if it's a crypto gizmo and has seal - which i didn't put there - i've no interest in it.
asciilifeform: decimation: rng design that involves the purchase of an active volcano is probably expensive too.
decimation: Last I called, NIST wanted $5-10k for "labor costs" to measure the phase noise of a microwave oscillator
decimation: but but ascii they said it's good to 8 sigma!
asciilifeform: your simulated annealing turd won't converge, you'll sit & curse the gods
decimation: it's a good point. Part of the problem is that actual calibrated analog noise sources are expensive
asciilifeform: even for simulation purposes (actually the original source of my interest in rng design, years ago) lfsr is crap. you get creeping periodicities.
decimation: well, to be fair I think the application is to generate noise for comms. simulation purposes, not crypto
asciilifeform: why? ask the builders, not me
asciilifeform: am i the only one here who remembers how rsa sig algo works !?
decimation: You can just put the user 4-digit pin into a key derivation algorithm :)
asciilifeform: (e.g. the hardcoded master key that inevitably turns up in audits of various crapware)
asciilifeform: orthogonal to this is the other problem, that you (owner) have no way of verifying what it is the gizmo is capable of
asciilifeform: the very next time victim enters pin.
asciilifeform: if you plug dumbcard into a pwned box, it will sign whatever the enemy wants to sign.
joecool: asciilifeform: pretty sure in the case of the smartcard it needs to initialize the card to know that it is, all it sees is a reader otherwise
asciilifeform: fails the 'would you plug this in at dr. evil's house?' test.
joecool: asciilifeform: i don't generate keys on card for the rng issue, need to upload from laptop, but yeah sure no way to enter pin outside the laptop
decimation: I also wonder if the antiphase headphones are modulating my eardrums at frequencies beyond my perception
joecool: i'm a big fan of westone's products, i switched to them from shure awhile back
decimation: To be fair I haven't purchased the fancy "pilot quality" headphones made by bose etc.
joecool: switched to an amp and they sounded like a very different pair
decimation: I found really great NASCAR earphones that have 30 dB attenuation down to low frequencies - I look like a tool on the airplane
decimation: re: antiphase headphones - they give me a weird headache if I use them too long. Also I find that they have rolloff at the lower frequencies
asciilifeform: joecool: 1) pc knows that dedicated crypto hardware is connected. compromised pc can then mitm the user.
asciilifeform: decimation: those transformers are 'golden toilet' priced - no surprise, given the 'medical' label
joecool: ah i use IEM's, they fit in pocket
asciilifeform: (love the log, spares my keyboard years of life)
decimation: pro tip: when someone is jerking randomly in the water below a "no swimming - danger of electrocution" sign, don't jump in to rescue
decimation: Although there were 'No Swimming' signs that warned of the danger of electrocution, it was common practice for patrons to swim at the marina. ... Samantha tried to climb on a raft with Margaret when she suddenly started jerking in the water. ... Another boater dove in to save Samantha. He was shocked too and barely escaped with his life. Sadly, Samantha died.
decimation: it seems to me that the 120 volt standard in the US is extremely wasteful of valuable copper. The US should switch to the global 220/240 v standard.
decimation: found them googling around. There are also transformers sold for the yacht market, but I'm sure they are more expensive
decimation: Not cheap, I cannot vouch for the quality
kakobrekla: and the smart card is inspectable?
davout: kakobrekla: the backslashes, what have you done
davout: kakobrekla: [\\\] is fucking with the log :D
davout: <express scorn for other non-french people>
BigBitz: You know how the French are.
BigBitz: You're the bitcoin-central guy.
davout: benkay: i'll send you the CD :D
benkay: davout: wish i were there
pankkake: I see they were active in 2012 at least
davout: bounce: i seriously don't give the slightest shit about you believing me or not
pankkake: well, usually you just check they have been in business for a while and not high schoolers
bounce: so you did whois and got the same info
pankkake: benkay: so who are they? many *fiat* vps do not live for long. I've experienced one disappearing for example
jurov: BigBitz: they pay you for it?
davout: bounce: that's because i'm more like the cop that's looking up his cop DB
bounce: you suck at the coughing man in a raincoat act
davout: benkay: going there tomorrow, you jelly? -> http://www.theatrechampselysees.fr/recital-et-musique-de-chambre/concerts-du-dimanche-matin/sol-gabetta-bertrand-chamayou
benkay: not bad pricing on these
pankkake: the success stories, i.e. bitcoin prices, or asicminer in the past, made people want to throw money at it
pankkake: that had no idea what they were doing
jurov: actually many smart people are repelled first.. especially these that expect thing working properly according to rules
davout: there's this too
pankkake: well, they realize it doesn't grow on trees and are upset
davout: "fair" in the sense of "democratic" or "equal"
davout: but somehow i feel like a lot of people come to it with the wrong idea o "fair money"
pankkake: you can make them with your computar
BigBitz: Sadly I don't think I am either of those.
davout: and the terminally retarded
davout: poor guy is probably still talking in the chan
twizt_: so after all ipo shares sold, the secondary trading goes dark? lol
dotcoin: we provide them so why you talking that when it's not true
davout: pankkake: if you want to not make the requests you can use teh API :D
dotcoin: we hidde nothing thats is do anyone from you go inside the bourse and take a view and read all? than you see there is nothing hidden there is all transparent
twizt_: you can just show the last market trade, by symbol, price quantity
davout: pankkake: it's only for the font, nothing remotely comparable to cloudflare
Apocalyptic: <dotcoin> hosting on 1&1 // they are on online afaik
pankkake: I think so, unless it's only for the font
davout: pankkake: you serious about the google thing? shame on me
Apocalyptic: that's bothersome
dotcoin: thats not correct as i tell you already there is all to see
dotcoin: many other things in todo list, so i not give them so much priority yet as i don't know this classifieds me as scammer
BigBitz: You surely have the data at hand.
davout: dotcoin: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE <<< on the rigth side of this page is also an order book
dotcoin: there are offers to buy and sell, of course, the only one not is there are not showing sold shares thats correct
davout: dotcoin: you need to show offers to buy and sell, publicly, not who is posting these orders
dotcoin: but this is already there
Apocalyptic: but you see the trades for every single trading day
davout: dotcoin: how can the public have an idea of what the state of the market is without an order book ?
BigBitz: Yeah if NASDAQ can run their engine for longer than 2mins :P
dotcoin: you want see where are the shareholders? do you see on your bank the shareholder names of a company?
dotcoin: not the public
davout: dotcoin: how would you know there were 10k shares yesterday without an order book ?
dotcoin: yes i use and i know but i not must copy them as system works like this
davout: dotcoin: making the information public is also not optional
dotcoin: there is all there, if 10k shares was on listing and tomorrow are only 5000 means that 500 are sold, there is no order book need
jurov: dotcoin you ever use any stock exchange? every one of them publishes what trades were done
jurov: you pull the code off crystal ball or what?
jurov: dotcoin, in fact i don't want to be anymore. but have no other option
davout: dotcoin: well then, say "thank you for pointing that out, i'll be working on it"
pankkake: must be your mom's then
jurov: so dotcoin, you insist the orderbook is completely fine despite everyone else saying it is not?
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> because otherwise freiburg uni is like 600 years old. // you're sure about this ?
mircea_popescu: a ok then.
pankkake: the company is registered
davout: and that it matches the details posted
davout: mircea_popescu: i know for a fact that the name is real
dotcoin: there exist many weiler same as many Francois i guess