mircea_popescu: you could send it to the bitcoinica relief fund.
mike_c: "The Bitfinex trading platform is currently in a beta phase (testing phase). The platform is owned and operated by iFinex Inc. (Bvi), and during this final phase the platform is being prepared to operate under a fully licensed model."
mike_c: back to the moon i guess
nubbins`: i demand the reverse
kakobrekla can be heard editing the logs
nubbins`: the general "we"
kakobrekla: apple: Apps may facilitate transmission of approved virtual currencies provided that they do so in compliance with all state and federal laws for the territories in which the app functions
kakobrekla: yeah about half was left out in the book
mike_c: mpif question: are those 900k+ shares on the order book new shares?
mike_c: couple bit cents down the drain.
mircea_popescu: jurov, that was a fact a month or so ago. meanwhile, prolly lost interest, limiting themselves to one intern "checking the weblogs"
nubbins`: on their part, even
jurov: nubbins`: you think there are cia operatives in chan?
BingoBoingo: I dunno anything for sure, just supposed the best way this ends.
Chris_Sabian: the forum is full of trolls and bagholders
Chris_Sabian: there is so much misinformation and rumors it is hard to know what is going on
mircea_popescu: prolly the plan.
gribble: Tacoma Narrows Bridge Collapse "Gallopin' Gertie" - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw>; Galloping Gertie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galloping_Gertie>; Tacoma Narrows Bridge ("Galloping Gertie") - Wikipedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_(1940)>
asciilifeform: see also the famous tacoma narrows bridge.
mircea_popescu: The breakthrough into unlocking the cause of the accident came after the crash of Northwest Airlines Flight 710 on March 17, 1960. The two aircraft, both Electras, disintegrated in mid-air after losing their wings in similar fashion, both resulting in the deaths of all occupants on board.
mircea_popescu: However, even though it was determined that the wing was destroyed by "cycles of reverse bending" or "flutter", the investigation failed to determine how the flutter was caused, and the investigation stalled.
mircea_popescu: Braniff Airways Flight 542, a Lockheed L-188 Electra, registration N9705C, was a scheduled domestic flight from Houston, Texas, bound for New York with scheduled stops in Dallas and Washington, D.C.. On September 29, 1959, 23 minutes into the 41-minute flight from Houston to Dallas Love Field, the aircraft disintegrated in mid-air approximately 3.8 miles (6.1 km) southeast of Buffalo, Texas killing everyone on board.
mircea_popescu: so from the "let's encourage people to fly" department :
BingoBoingo: moiety: You catch that link about the local fauna, definitely would trade for Manuls
Chris_Sabian: ok then
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since mr. m started sailing under the flag of the sv/vc circus, the thing's been well-hyped and spammed to virtually every forum where technowankers while away their days.
nubbins`: well, nevermind, then
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: random person i ran into today had actually heard of bitcoin, AND of urbit << random, as in, on the streets of ar ?
fluffypony: and not a mountain or whatever the fuck it is
assbot: Alligator snapping turtle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
gribble: thestringpuller was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 29 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <thestringpuller> A good deal of Uncharted is written in LISP.
nubbins`: ;;seen thestringpuller
nubbins`: they must never know!
mircea_popescu: and started thinking maybe the surgery's for real.
BingoBoingo: Poor local yokel was trying to coax it off the road with sticks.
BingoBoingo: Saw interesting creature on the road today. Alligator snapping turtle of roughly a meter in shell circumfrence.
mircea_popescu: and his comment was "o, those jets thing were the funniest part. "yadda yadda yadda i'm very tired today"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the proverb was attributed to mathematician alan perlis. i wasn't there when he uttered it. here's the context where i last mentioned it: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, one cannot transition from the informal to the formal by formal means. << what's the long story of that ?
Apocalyptic: if only they 'd stick to that
assbot: Meet Cupid, the Heartbleed attack that spawns evil Wi-Fi networks | Ars Technica
BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/06/meet-cupid-the-heartbleed-attack-spawns-evil-wi-fi-networks/
pankkake: yes, the response is quite sensible, and seems to be about "deceptive tactics"
BingoBoingo: benkay: Are they supposing I want to fuck a hurricaine?
jurov: the shirt won't last so long
BingoBoingo: /me is suspicous to committing to #bitcoin-assets on Freenode on the shirt, because it is hard to know when the situaton will reverse...
assbot: Female-named hurricanes kill more than male hurricanes because people don’t respect them, study finds
benkay: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/06/02/female-named-hurricanes-kill-more-than-male-because-people-dont-respect-them-study-finds/
fluffypony: kakobrekla: shhhh, you're ruining my identity theft scamring
fluffypony: "You made a thread here and what did you expect ? people would congradulate you for doing everything wrong ? keep reading your "how to make a web wallet book" you pathetic tool."
fluffypony: "Swift takes the best features from the C and Objective-C languages. It includes low-level primitives such as types, flow control, and operators. It also provides object-oriented features such as classes, protocols, and generics"
fluffypony: Kander is the secretary of state
jurov: kander is the state secretary
fluffypony: "Reached by phone Monday afternoon, Slaughter was unaware of Kander's news release but said it must have been part of a settlement his lawyers were working on with the office. He said he also expects to have to pay a fine."
benkay: where is the manul lady
jurov: i move for moiety to call them, ask about mpex and report for lulz
asciilifeform: Naphex: i discussed this adventure in the not too distant past: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2014&bots=true#589971
fluffypony: one nice thing that came out of are the iCloud Drive prices - 200gb for $4/month
asciilifeform: Naphex: assuming an actual choice of instruments (rather major assumption) - sbcl.
asciilifeform: fluffypony: one hint, in the past, was that apple clearly indicated a desire to see 'gcc' die in a fire
asciilifeform: artifexd: if headline is genuine, the only real surprise is that apple had not attempted this earlier.
kakobrekla: so whats the story with this seaforth
asciilifeform: from apple's point of view - it isn't quite enough to have an effective vendor lock-in through obj. c and the mac api - it is necessary to breed programmers who can't even -think- on a competing platform.
Naphex: and java is the best ;]
fluffypony: also they compared performance vs. python and objective-C
fluffypony: artifexd: no serious - they start it off with "we thought about how we could have Objective C but without the problems of C"
fluffypony: closures, generics, namespaces, the usual
thestringpuller: +asciilifeform> now you have games (and even virii!) with built-in 'lua' << The engine that came from Jak and Daxter is built in LISP for entity relationships.
asciilifeform: i did get a number of people playing with fpga (the closest thing to 'freedom' in this context, that i know of) who perhaps wouldn't have otherwise.
asciilifeform: (summary of some of the obstacles in the way of any serious attempt to ditch legacy crud while remaining even a little bit commercially viable)
asciilifeform: IMAP, X, ... A huge amount of work, but if you dont honor the standards
kakobrekla: re fw, one of the ways to make it easy one yourself is to keep it as small as possible.
asciilifeform: only recently we ended up with x86 boxes fast enough to disregard the performance hit from high-level languages on a cpu without hardware type-tagging
jurov: was the interpreter accessible?
jurov: because there was no popular MS-DOS game with embedded lisp interpreter
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: now they use windows and excel. that's where i come from
gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 44 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <nubbins`> "certainly, daniel! shall i use the bitstamp BTC/GHS rate?"
asciilifeform: diametric: this is sort of why i bring up my long-term research only when asked about it. and at other times, work with whatever materials are available in the jungle i inhabit, in a way that mostly makes sense to people.
jurov: i have quite a few friends that got into programming in their teens and have done impressive demos
diametric: you can have all the architecturally pure things in the world, but they don't amount to shit if they don't actually manage to accomplish work.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: anyway the fw that i made was first tested on smpake.com service and was made with btc in mind << "built from the ground up with security in mind"
asciilifeform: jurov: the way i understand it, you see 'architectural purity' as an optional frill, like the 'non-conflict zone minerals' folks, or enviro-whiners. i do not.
mircea_popescu: there we go.
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin suddenly opened the gate. It is a poisonous offering. You are grossly unequipped to interact straight with the refuse of Western society. Accepting investors with fortunes under a million dollars or whatever the limit was placed for US citizens may make sense. Accepting investors with fortunes under any arbitrary value and simultaneously wits under any arbitrary threshold is not a sound business plan but a str
mircea_popescu: ever theyre called now, non-lethal something or the other) to correctly handle them. They have the chemicals, theyve done the research, know the behavioural patterns, have the walls all built to obstruct vision, living arrangements all thought through and everything.
mircea_popescu: Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations competent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or what
asciilifeform: must be the first link.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: "hey guise i'm the first hand-blown glass satanist dildo shop in the WORLD to accept bitcoin!" << when's the ipo!
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: they see it as "bitcoin isn't ready for apple" << they're right, too. i don't have a mpoe-pr large enough to swat all the fucktarded us consumers thinking they'r eentitled to shit because their govt paid me taxes or something
assbot: One Laptop per Child - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mike_c: those were actually off by a factor of 10, but they all were so it doesn't really matter.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: pankkake: ipo USD/share: $0.33, 2po: $0.345, current: $0.227 << o wow srsly ? for some reason i had it in my head they started at a 25cents
asciilifeform: 'The Ogre does what ogres can, Deeds quite impossible for Man,...'
asciilifeform: get the african kids started on winblows.
asciilifeform: kickstarter works - when it works - for 'i want to make a bicycle drive shaft from hastalloy.' and other well-defined engineering problems.
diametric: though i tend to vet them
diametric: asciilifeform: surprisingly the last 6 kickstarters i've done have all delivered
mircea_popescu: i hope they make an up to date version
mike_c: srsly. he'd be unreadable without their editing
jurov: yes it is inevitable if people who know better won't do anything for kids because they want 100% architectural purity without compromises
asciilifeform: re: kickstarter: lol. suggested experiment: open a kickstart, with the headline 'pay my living expense for 20 years. in the end, you might get a useful gizmo if i live that long.'
asciilifeform: i've had this discussion with more people than i can count. and the only ones who 'grokked' the basic idea, were the ones who woke up to the realization that much of what we consider to be the 'inevitable' brokenness of computing infrastructure (ubiquitous bugs, e.g. buffer overflows, irreducible complexity of os, compilers) is anything but.
asciilifeform: jurov: see the dc current historical example.
jurov: then naturally live with it whole life
jurov: i'm only withessing te failure of your approach so far
asciilifeform: here's an essay describing my hypothesis regarding why:
asciilifeform: jurov: we've been witnessing the failure of this approach for two decades now.
jurov: that's the attitude i'm taking about
kakobrekla: kinda same story with thinking machines, darpa funding there.
asciilifeform: net earth will be programming these idiotic boxes pretty soon if managers don't wise up to the fact that the equivalent of automatic switches already exist and have done so for at least 20 years.'
asciilifeform: 'I remember someone saying that if it hadn't been for automatic switches in the telephone network, the entire population of planet earth would have had to be telephone operators to handle the load of telephone usage in 1993 or thereabout. I get the eerie feeling that because modern computer systems are so incredibly braindamaged in their design and in the tools used to program them, the entire population of pla
jurov: westinghouse had the presence of mind to compete on price, too
asciilifeform: if westinghouse did not have similar strength and motivation to demolish the crap - we'd have been stuck with it.
asciilifeform: situation was entirely analogous to the current one re: computing - in that the inferior technical solution would have been embraced readily by equipment makers, for whom the waste is a bonanza
benkay: capital requirements got in the way.
asciilifeform: the distinction between source and object code is an evil thing, rather like leaded gasoline - ought to have gone away a generation ago.
asciilifeform: even on a very minimal machine, with a few kb of memory, it is possible to use a language like Forth - which preserves the semantics of the code, and has genuine repl.
asciilifeform: it is possible - and has been done - to build cpu which executes high-level language more or less directly. but, given as i have an entire blog about this, i will omit the details here.
asciilifeform: people who design baroque contraptions (ml, haskell, ocaml, go - tradition) for 'smarter compiler' - that ends up grinding the original semantics of a program into incomprehensible soup - as if god came and said to mortals to use pdp-11 forever - are solving the wrong problem.
asciilifeform: you ought to be able to do 'who-calls' and other useful operations that need the machine to retain semantics of the original code
asciilifeform: yeah, the folks responsible for 35 years of static language well past sell by date
diametric: asciilifeform: it's also the brain child of Ken Thompson and Rob Pike
asciilifeform: 'go' is funded by the same bozos who spend $billion on a company making GUI thermostats.
diametric: the people backing it are what have me intrigued
asciilifeform: diametric: every so often, folks invent another 'ocaml' - compiled language with 'strong typing.' you lose the REPL - you lose me.
asciilifeform: benkay: and this reply to a reader asking about urbit (author of urbit was labouring under the same ill-conceived notions that produced haskell) - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390
Naphex: if you're wondering how is that possbile, it ran a browser in full screen on the front-end
assbot: Loper OS » Parentheses-Phobia Illustrated.
asciilifeform: Naphex: the readability and 'omg 111 parentheses' problems go away when you use an adult editor.
asciilifeform: mike_c: it wouldn't be too far off the mark to say that i like common lisp because 'slime' is possible for it, rather than vice-versa.
assbot: SLIME: The Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs
Naphex: for lets say 3 years, enough that every programmer there is bored shitless
Naphex: i don't doubt they exist
mike_c: i used to agree about the readability, but i have recently seen some elegant looking lisp programs. and i used to think python was unreadable. so who knows.
jurov: and the body is (if (leap year) give bonus)
benkay: the signature looks like (process-deposits every-ten-minutes)
mike_c: Naphex: mtgox would have managed to suck in any language. i just feel bad for good programmers who somehow have ended up using php. probably the same as asciilifeform feels for all of us that don't use lisp.
kakobrekla: anyway the fw that i made was first tested on smpake.com service and was made with btc in mind
Naphex: ZF for php was more then decent
pankkake: I haven't tried haskell at all but it's definitively on my list of things to try out - perhaps the only one actually
benkay: jvm issues are unless i miss my read (which is possible and do correct me plz) along the lines of 'don't let people have access to your box and don't run java as a consumer'
Mats_cd03: the frameworks don't look ready for production
pankkake: or as a way to reduce the hipster population
Apocalyptic: pankkake, to give them ad gifts ?
fluffypony: yay WWDC time, I'm hoping for a Macbook Pro Retina that is the size of a Macbook Air and has 20 hour battery life
jurov is waiting for the eventual <fluffypony> HAR HAR
nubbins`: "certainly, daniel! shall i use the bitstamp BTC/GHS rate?"
fluffypony: nubbins`: ah yes, "siri, pay the cab driver 0.005 BTC"
assbot: Inside the Shadowy World of High-Speed Tennis Betting | FiveThirtyEight
nubbins`: he's using his phone's voice recognition capabilities to make the transaction
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: they say that something like 90% of africans own an iphone
fluffypony: also if I see another post that is by an American about how Africa is ready for Bitcoin I'm going to stab them in the face
kakobrekla: possibly, i uninstalled half of the server by mistake.
nubbins`: "hey guise i'm the first hand-blown glass satanist dildo shop in the WORLD to accept bitcoin!"
fluffypony: but atm I'm not convinced either party particularly cares about all the ranting on /r/bitcoin
fluffypony: I'm sure that at some point in the future they'll let you fund your iTunes account with Bitcoin
nubbins`: they see it as "bitcoin isn't ready for apple"
nubbins`: "mom, can i download?" "ok" (mom enters password) HEY KIDS BUY SOME SMURF BERRIES (no password required because mom just authed)
fluffypony: nubbins`: yeah, I think they may also want to avoid the issue they've had with kids spending thousands on in-app purchases
nubbins`: they'll allow bitcoin apps if/when the point is reached where idiots can use it without saying "???"
nubbins`: "Today Apple makes an OS announcement --- I say we flood social media & news with questions about why they are anti-tech & anti Bitcoin"
nubbins`: had a consultation with the vet, chose a nice model
asciilifeform: jurov: plus, ferroresonant monster gets 25+ years of lifetime, vs. the laughable 3 or 4 modern semiconductor-based ups is good for.
asciilifeform: jurov: 'online' ups was costly last i priced it (for 1kW+. the tiny things are worthless in my setup) and rather inefficient (~60%)
asciilifeform: jurov: the 200ms figure was taken from actual measurement of an ancient ups i owned several years ago. i can easily believe 4ms with solid-state relays, in modern unit. still does nothing against small transients.
nubbins`: thanks for the tip!
assbot: imgur: the simple 404 page
assbot: imgur: the simple 404 page
gribble: Error: No orders found to remove. Try the 'view' command to view your open orders.
gribble: Error: No orders found matching these criteria.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
fluffypony: for the sexperiment
fluffypony: how goeth the phone line?
gribble: the20year was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 weeks, 4 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <the20year> Corn oil sells locally for $3.25/gal
mike_c: ;;seen the20year
mike_c: heh. how can you ignore havelol? it's more fun than the forums.
mike_c: of course, BI managed to make it worse by adding their own emphasis to things.
mike_c: a straight republishing of someone else's work. that's one way to improve their site.
nubbins`: maybe the most lucid article BI has published thus far
mike_c: heh. I *tried* to verify the fund's balances :) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-05-2014#691453
jurov: what was the assassination market bounty? isn't cheaper to kill him?
jurov: my flat seems to be wired directly to elevator, psu did survive the surges, but lcd flickered
jurov: i'm curious where did you get the 200ms figure from
jurov: asciilifeform here they say typical ransfer time 4ms and that's just cheapest 60euro turd: http://eu.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups_systems/value/value1000eilcd.htm
asciilifeform: 'the sapper errs once.'
assbot: If you just received 800 Bitcoin out of the blue, it was from me : Bitcoin
fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/273vi2/if_you_just_received_800_bitcoin_out_of_the_blue/
nubbins`: for those who like the deluxe, you can spend time with me for 1btc/hour
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Newar!~Newar@27-142-145-94.rev.home.ne.jp. Trust relationship from user assbot to user newar: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=newar | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=newar | Rated since: Mon Jun 4 19:36:39 2012
artifexd: I rounded up to 0.07142858. Will PM you the physical address.
artifexd: nubbins`: Address and amount for 2 t-shirts please. No #bitcoin-assets on the back. 1 XL. 1 S.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: i'll probably do up the screens in the next day or so, and keep 'em around for a week or two
nubbins`: heh. well i'm not printing them today or anything
nubbins`: danielpbarron: no sweat, i'm doing the same for fluffypony
nubbins`: so i found a copy of the first canadian pressing of bob dylan's first album
assbot: 'Yield to the moose,' wildlife expert urges - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/yield-to-the-moose-wildlife-expert-urges-1.2661131
gribble: The operation succeeded.
xmj: does anyone in the SEPA zone want to accept fiat and ship me a shirt to estonia?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
fluffypony: I'll take 6 - 4 for me, 2 for the wife. how do I order?
nubbins`: a bargain at twice the price
assbot: imgur: the simple 404 page
fluffypony: ok nubbins` better idea - how about on the back you put "First. Biggest. Only. Best. Exclusive."
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why exactly, as mike_c aptly pointed out size and especiallyu outsize is the worst enemy of good financials,
nubbins`: jurov, fluffypony: could have optional "#bitcoin-assets / freenode" etc on the back. i'll skip it for mine :D
jurov: i can always switch it to "The First And Only Exclusive Coolness" shit
fluffypony: I love how the title ends with "serialized delusions"
gribble: In which noobs learn lessons and pay for the privilege pe Trilema ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-noobs-learn-lessons-and-pay-for-the-privilege/>; The EVE online noob guide. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/the-eve-online-noob-guide>; Bitcoin pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/bitcoin/>
fluffypony: she: "why doesn't someone just make a post and say that nobody must sell Bitcoin under $700, and then it will go up over $700?"
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla, http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/ << doi the graphs stop like a week ago ?
fluffypony: speaking of "community", I had a charming conversation with my wife yesterday during the 4000 BTC dump
mircea_popescu: "I almost listed something on Cryptostocks, but think I will wait and reassess before I do. What we need as a community is to not accept these low standards of service. "
mircea_popescu: gonna ask surda how he's going to write off the loss according to austrian accounting standards, if this gets full gox <<< keep me posted lol
jurov: 0.00021724 is it then
mircea_popescu: well you can use the nav too, just, obviously three weeks in the 3 week old nav is kinda off.
jurov: will fix the stmt
mircea_popescu: this being the advantage of having multiple minds involved, for the public, and this is what a liberal profession is : you get to make calls.
mircea_popescu: jurov:<mircea_popescu> [00:33:27] jurov, i see you +0.3 btc or so. << so i should value fmpif position at current offering sell price? << i've used the 30day average. seems reasonable valuation for a held security, but it's not mandatory, you can value whichever way you think reasonable.