mdev: thanks, i'm a freelance dev, plan on working on my own company stuff eventually, I do mostly web projects these days
kakobrekla: yeah well this chan is prolly the last one that would need a warning :)
mdev: he may try and make nice nice to get voice then drop his link
mdev: doubt he'd be able to do much in here, but he's been quite active in other cryptocoin chans i'm in
mdev: be on the lookout for that promo site scammer
kakobrekla: the best time to do it is today
kakobrekla: did you register for the world of tanks mdev'
assbot: Harvard confirms century-old book is covered in human skin | The Verge
pankkake: http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/4/5780644/harvard-book-is-bound-in-human-skin-tests-confirm
punkman: http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/ << if you you let your kids grow up in murica, you are endangering them and I'm gonna report you to the international court of bad parenting
TheNewDeal: the network would have to pump out blocks like 15% faster over the next 10,000 for that block 315k to be yes
TheNewDeal: but the last difficulty change was going to be questionable
TheNewDeal: that's my take, minus the fees
TheNewDeal: I'm wondering what made them conclude "I should bet on No", other than the fact that the payout was 2:1
TheNewDeal: i'm wondering why someone laid down 6 on No, betting about a day apart. They lost 13% of the timeweight they would have had if they would have wagered it all at once
BingoBoingo: Well, the bastile day bet is looking increasingly like diff will make it, but I bet no a while a go
Vexual: they eyes have it
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Vexual: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Vexual | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Vexual | Rated since: never
assbot: Iggy Pop - The Passenger - YouTube
TheNewDeal: if the hashrate over the last 512 blocks averages 87,961,249 GH/s, what will be the hashrate tomorrow, assuming the growth rate was equal to that of the last 14-day period
TheNewDeal: if the network growth rate is 1.1%, how long will it take to find 2016 blocks?
Vexual: repeat the question
TheNewDeal: if the network hovers at let's say, 1.1 %/day growth, what will be the hash rate on October 1st
Vexual: one off the top ok
TheNewDeal: there's too many
TheNewDeal: how much has the network grown
Vexual: the graph usually comes later,what u wanna do?
TheNewDeal: how does one calculate a %/day of the network
TheNewDeal: I'm kind of angry that the block reward halving doesn't occur on a multiple of 2016
mircea_popescu: mdev: makes it hard to sell them, considering their increased value over time << this is the point where it stfus and goes read the log for the rest of 2014.
thestringpuller: there you go :P
TheNewDeal: regardless, why isn't the next difficulty change a product of 2016
TheNewDeal: doesn't the difficulty change every 2016 blocks?
TheNewDeal: when did the first difficult change occur? block 2017?
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Hey
mthreat: TheNewDeal: no problems here
TheNewDeal: speaking of loud transformers, I was sitting at a stoplight the other day under a bunch of high voltage lines, enjoying the buzz that filled the air around me
TheNewDeal: I thought the whole point of a transformer was to change voltage?
Vexual: either will make my brain hurt
asciilifeform: (electrical gizmo supposedly unnecessary in the civilized world)
TheNewDeal: Disappointing sentences of Wikipedia: the entirety
asciilifeform: or the rain.
asciilifeform: don't leave suitcase out in the frost.
BingoBoingo: That is some useful math. The lithium coin cells, can also generally survive 10+ years in a constant low drain environment...
asciilifeform: http://spsc.googlecode.com/files/Turchin.-The.Language.REFAL.-.The.Theory.of.Compilation.and.Metasystem.Analysis.%281980%29.djvu
asciilifeform blows dust off Turchin's 'the algorithmic language Refal.'
asciilifeform: prob. 'REFAL' rather than forth, though
asciilifeform: ^ electrical output: ~10W. thermal: ~200
assbot: Beta-M - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: new gizmo has 2x the life vs. varient with, say, nickel metal hydride cell
BingoBoingo: This particular battery went from 5 hours charge to 5 minutes charge over three years. Breaking point on replacing it was it could no longer sustain a whole cigarette's worth of time away from the cord.
BingoBoingo: Recently replaced the laptop battery after 3 years. Lithium ion seems more influenced by time decay that cycles, to the extent I have noticed so far
asciilifeform: so, about the same life as 'macbook'
asciilifeform: they use lithium rechargeables, afaik
BingoBoingo wonders in how many years Tesla vehicles will be routinely relieved of their batteries.
asciilifeform: weak point, as always - the battery
asciilifeform: bypass the usual inverter found on solar rigs. use solar, woman on bike, whichever
BingoBoingo: There's more equiptment tuned for these applications when using solar than mains, at least in the consumer/prosumer market
BingoBoingo: Are they actually neighbors, or potekemin neighbors who professionally reside in that house?
asciilifeform looks to xformer, 'you're a loud little bugger, aintcha' xformer: bzzz me: could be worse xformer: BZZZzzz me: looks at neighbour's house, wonders what they did to dip the mains
mircea_popescu: looks like either a horrible wax job or some sort of dermatological testing
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03: north koreans shouting ones and zeros into telephones have better uptime <<< yes well, there's a reason i've not seen three digits on a bill for years and years.
mircea_popescu: you can drown the loser in my ballsack sweat, it still won't smell pleasant.
asciilifeform: efforts to synthetically exploit this effect, afaik, failed, and the field was taken over by snake oil men (as often happens)
asciilifeform: ^ the infamous 't-shirts' experiment
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: EFF seems to suffer from the librarian view of technology, hard to tell if they are stooges or unaware. << eff is a large donation based org. it has the limitations and blind spots that flow from that. it's useful for what it's iuseful, it's not the pope of electronic freedom. juust a tool.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: hope there are no btc sniffing dogs << laugh, but i bet some bozo is working on ferreting out 'kulaks' through pheromonal sensing of one kind or another. fellow who walks around knowing he's loaded, probably can be smelled, in principle << women can definitely smell me.
asciilifeform: i heartily recommend the entire document, to any amateur maths types here.
mircea_popescu: 154 has all the qualities of an excellent poem
asciilifeform: one of the golden age mit ai lab folks
mircea_popescu: o the hakmem nm\
mircea_popescu: http://girls.twistys.com/preview/dailyupdates/2014/06/02/emilyaddison-30527/images/full/16.jpg i guess he misses out on the feet then
mircea_popescu: by the way, was phinn ever back ?
asciilifeform: (not necessarily though fault of their own)
asciilifeform: expats, as a rule, are folks who ate more than fair share of shit where they came from
asciilifeform remembers the traditional american image of ussr, formed largely with tales from expats circa 1917
mircea_popescu: also in general, i find that what the resident expats say about BA is about as spot on as if they had never visited
mircea_popescu: i imagine they would prefer you don't take dollars out, however. not sure why you'd want to, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ^ mircea_popescu, chetty: can you comment? << yes i can comment. i carried a huge stack of bills inside, it's not that they allowed it, it's that they don't evenm know, cause they couldn't be bothered to find out.
asciilifeform: then turned, surprisingly, into something more like normal soap (probably they found something cheap & viscosity-enhancing to add)
asciilifeform: had the 'honour' of seeing this alive. i sometimes buy liquid soap, and for a few years after '09, it was mostly pisswater
mircea_popescu: a country where ordinary people obey the law is the worst sort of country to live in.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: a kind of 'soft' deindustrialization. << if that is soft i have no idea what is hard. and also, the people making milk in their back yard are being kept in check with regulation.
mircea_popescu: even if everyone had the same picture, what of it.
asciilifeform: sure. but everyone has some kind of mental picture for what they expect a normal person to be able to do - e.g. tie a knot
mircea_popescu: pankkake: it's not necessarily weaker << it's in fact weak to very bad rng. it has in displayed this in the wild, on some machines for which rng = 9
mircea_popescu: peterl, either that or autocomplete.
mircea_popescu: "what fucking, you just sit your ass on the cock and bob up and down"
asciilifeform: this is the thing that always puzzled me about the alt folks. if they're meant to be 'spares' for btc, where's the one using rsa? lattice? etc
mircea_popescu: also because the bitcoinz use a vulnerable scheme.
mircea_popescu: mdev: the public key argument thing, about it being exposed after the first transaction, not sure why that's an issue, RSA is based off handing out public keys, I know bitcoin uses ECDMA or whatever, but still if the public key can't be trusted << because cargo cult sekoority.
mircea_popescu: benkay: bitcoin "devs" are idiotically and self-destructively committed to this "no reuse" idea, ever since implementing the braindead wallet schema that creates new addrs for your change << it's not that bad of an idea. the problem is that they misrepresent it as a central point of protocol, when it's merely a marginal helper tool thing. sorta like people thinking all carpenter tables must also have a vase on them
gribble: Blinkenlights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights>; “ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS!” “Das ... - Loewen, Mike: <http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Blinkenlights.pdf>; Computer Humor: Just Watch the Pretty Lights - Astrodigital: <http://www.astrodigital.org/digital/achtung.html>
mircea_popescu: pankkake: though it is definitively a weird idea << no argument there.
mircea_popescu: the friedcat post is uncharacteristically convincing actually.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I made it on old forum. My guess is there are syncing problems between the two.
assbot: [Mpex.co] The Scientology of Bitcoin Finance? | Page 19 | Bitcointa.lk
mircea_popescu: i enjoy seeing how the proles live now and again
mircea_popescu: buy the trip!
mike_c: buy the dip! (unless it keeps going down)
mircea_popescu: also in the news, earlier today : argentina "hallo mr mp, in this here argentina all our keyboards are spanish" ; mp : "fuck you" ; argentina : "ok here are your english keyboards plox"
mike_c: how'd the euro end up today? any new cool huge pictures?
mike_c: obviously kako, but don't confuse him with the advanced shit yet.
kakobrekla: no, the killed dropped gox reverse
mdev: really? what caused it then
mircea_popescu: benkay [...]<< i only ever found 1 acceptable cup in bsas << no actually there;s plenty, you just need good intel :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps ask him how he intends to sell the gurl's favours
mircea_popescu: methinks kako is maybe not the best person to be running funds and shit
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu: mastercard told xapo to go fuck itself << if i recall, you're friends with the fellow who runs it, ask him wtf << well what's to ask ? boy likes girl, girl doesn't like boy. what would you ask him ?
mircea_popescu: the irony of it. who recomended it ?
gribble: (calc <math expression>) -- Returns the value of the evaluated <math expression>. The syntax is Python syntax; the type of arithmetic is floating point. Floating point arithmetic is used in order to prevent a user from being able to crash to the bot with something like '10**10**10**10'. One consequence is that large values such as '10**24' might not be exact.
mdev: I wonder what the early bitcoiners that spent like 1k bitcoins on pizza's think about that now
mdev: considering bitcoins were worth pennies a few years ago, and peaked over 1k, plus the fact they're limited
mdev: since you're about to go mow, also thanks for the clarity, so you guys trade, very neat
mdev: http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/re85e/til_the_smell_of_freshly_cut_grass_is_actually_a/ there's the link on it, if interested @peter1
asciilifeform: (if you're smelling cut grass, but there is no grass... put on your mask.)
peterl: stepping out to mow the lawn, will voice myself when I am back later.
mike_c: if you get in the WoT somebody might rate you and you can voice yourself.
asciilifeform: given the track record, one almost imagines they'll jump in the pot voluntarily, so long as it's the fashionable thing to do.
BingoBoingo: Hard to say. I imagine people who still brush these things off will be learning Forth in the Coal mines within a decade
asciilifeform: how many idiots with miners sitting on tor (why? ask them, not me)
asciilifeform: they will see to it that as much of the turd as possible lives on, remains ubiquitous.
BingoBoingo: The dung beetles are already parting the shit castle and rolling it away in those shitballs as they do.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i know this. the lazy will pay.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The OpenSSL problem is deeper than SSL sucking as so many shitpiles just reuse their functions for other crypto applications
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140605202211 << the pill against this, as has been abundantly obvious for months to anyone who gives half a shit, is to take ssl out to the back of the shed and shoot it.
BingoBoingo: I believe these were mentioned in the logs earlier today. This bite from the drama llama I haven't seen shared yet
ThickAsThieves: something occurs to me as i reach chapter 45 of Anathem - this is basically a quantum mechanics debate mapped over the story aspects of star wars
ThickAsThieves: i like how ATC is at the top
ThickAsThieves: there's a new pool
punkman: totally makes sense to have "no" in the stoplist
mike_c: uh, who the hell wrote that URL / title combination?
assbot: The Codeless Code: Case 144 Mnemonic
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the (1 more message)
pankkake: that's one of the reasons to use journaling filesystems
mike_c: hm. hard drives do the same thing though. write caches and what not.
mike_c: pankkake: what do you mean about the storage lying to you? you mean about whether data has been committed?
mike_c: plus, i can't shoot my hetzner box in the head at will.
asciilifeform: then again, google already exists.
pankkake: the overpricing isn't all that bothers me. it's the usual ignorance, for example not knowing "cloud" storage is usually lying to you
benkay: to throw fuel on the 'cloud' fire.
benkay: for 600/yr, you can get either: amazon's rapaciously underpowered m1.medium with 1 vcpu 3.76G ram and apparently 4G of ssd (???????) OR a quad-core i7 with 32G ram and 4T 7200 platters and 20G of space at Hetzner
adrrr: Hi, I received my piper wallet :) but wrong electrical outlet, maybe a specialist could advise me about the place to find an adapter (France) ? ty
pankkake: "He started to threaten all our wives and children, name by name" this is indeed like the forum
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: The futility of your efforts on Bitcointalk http://www.gomerblog.com/2013/09/overdose-victim-mutters-dont-give-me-narcan-as-medics-arrive-on-the-scene/
asciilifeform: must be pretty rought to be one of the many ragnar danneskjolds on the net. everywhere you go, no one gets the reference.
assbot: Doctor Grumpy in the House: Medicine by committee
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Highlight of the Loper comments probably has to be "Dont make the mistake almost all engineers make: believing that the evolutionary tree of technological possibilities is trimmed by a benevolent gardener, rather than torn up by a mindless storm. Leaving not the most viable and fruitful branches, but a fairly random selection of the thickest."
BingoBoingo: EFF seems to suffer from the librarian view of technology, hard to tell if they are stooges or unaware.
mike_c: "But at present, the microscope again and again goes 'clang!' against the table, the nails slowly and crookedly creep inward, and tiny shards of the world’s finest lenses fly in all directions."
BingoBoingo: benkay: Not all. A lot of the homebrews can pick them up through poor hygiene allowing undesirable flora to produce them.
benkay: BingoBoingo: are these sulphurs in all beers?
BingoBoingo: benkay: There are reasons I prefer distilled spirits. There are a few sulphur compounds that are too... unpleasant to be tasted if it can be avoided. (most wine avoids this problem. I imagine this is because the prefered flora producing fermentation are more civilized).
asciilifeform: hope there are no btc sniffing dogs << laugh, but i bet some bozo is working on ferreting out 'kulaks' through pheromonal sensing of one kind or another. fellow who walks around knowing he's loaded, probably can be smelled, in principle
BingoBoingo: It's a mundane problem of human stupidity abusing the human capacity for intelligence. I'd definitely call the venture Augustinian.
jurov: usd shiffing dogs? bah. i hope there are no btc sniffing dogs next year
asciilifeform: (for smart-arses who answer, 'this won't work with a language having a full numeric tower' - the answer is, we can tear the paper off your abstraction by analyzing timing)
benkay: <BingoBoingo> Especially all of the "craft beers" that are born the same place place as Busch lite, Coors, and Miller. It's also a field where... Neigbhors producing fould products in the basement is increasing. // in the beer case, that 'fould' is far superior to that coming out of the mass-produced garbage
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: here's a good educational example of how the founding premise of crap computing, 'you can abstract over complexity', is a lie: http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/hbaker/hakmem/hacks.html#item154
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah, I've been rereading early loper and looking back at the urbit groups.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: urbit is actually a great example of what happens when some bozo thinks he can substitute mathematical trickery for understandability
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: problem is mundane/human rather than mathematical. excess complexity makes everyone who is trying to 'swallow' a discipline (or particular engineering design) stupider. quite like tying weights to a marathon runner.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'd differ with you on the Godellian problem of 70's crapola being exotic.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: urbit is drowning in its own shit, just like every other software project which clings to the ubiquitous 1970s conceptual crapola. nothing exotic/godelian about it.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "I have a suspicion that the entire scheme is vulnerable to Gödelization." << I like how you raised this in 2010 and the problem of this in Urbit has only grown...
asciilifeform: if it was one of the (rare) fpga clusters, it might've been interesting.
BingoBoingo: Looks like further consequences of old news.
diametric: not sure when it took place but the report was published today it seems
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: unless you're in a justified hurry, just burn the platters.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm telling you if you minimize the pcb content of the fire it isn't any worse than the smell when other locals burn yard waste. Also hotter fires produce less smells.
gribble: A Proper Barrel Fire: A secure way to dispose of data storage | Bingo ...: <http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/14/a-proper-barrel-fire-a-secure-way-to-dispose-of-data-storage/>
BingoBoingo: ;;google site:thedrinkingrecord.com proper barrel fire
gribble: Lammers Barrel Factory - Environmental Protection Agency: <http://www.epa.gov/region5/superfund/npl/ohio/OHD981537582.html>; Fire Hydrant Operation and Inspection - Acrp.com: <http://www.acrp.com/downloads/dso4.pdf>; Fire hydrant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_hydrant>
BingoBoingo: The brother once tried making a pear cider instead of a beer with te standard industrial grain. It revealed the small off taste in his product for a while was an enterococcous which could finally thrive on something other than shitty grain. He did not take my advice for cleansing his setup after that episode.
BingoBoingo: I haven't seen many home brews though that avoid the inadverdent inclusion of undesirable flora in their fermentation process.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of my brothers does something similar.
BingoBoingo: Especially all of the "craft beers" that are born the same place place as Busch lite, Coors, and Miller. It's also a field where... Neigbhors producing fould products in the basement is increasing.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I was more thinking of grain products, like beer, bread, etc. Where a rougher cheaper version of the same final product finds itself placed on the shelf as a "premium" good.
asciilifeform: the practical limit for 'shrinkflation' is, i imagine, the point where the pharmacy and its supply chain can no longer compete with your neighbour brewing soap from corpses or whatever in his cellar.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'd guess that this kind of thing is driven by ordinary consumer product shrinkflation, rather than vice versa
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Let us not forget the US's fauxartisinalflation where the same old crap is fancied up and then marked up (also in smaller packages).
asciilifeform: ^ i've been noticing this for years, evidently not the only one
assbot: Crescendo - Gatsby (Official Single) by Cre_scen_do on SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds
assbot: Why exactly reusing Bitcoin addresses strengthens Bitcoin user anonimity pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: mdev: mp had an entirely unrelated argument (in favour of reusing) - http://trilema.com/2014/why-exactly-reusing-bitcoin-addresses-strengthens-bitcoin-user-anonimity
pankkake: well, if you can have the extra security, why not. but I feel like ripemd160 would be breakable before ecdsa ;)
mdev: the fear it's vulnerable or could be
mdev: well that seems to be the only argument i've seen, security wise as far as not reusing addresses
mdev: so they used a weaker alg to shorten the key length, does that mean if the alg they used gets compromised all addresses that have done transactions are vulnerable anyway?
benkay: simple solution: top up your hot address from cold addresses infrequently, spend from the hot address as frequently as you want. minimize risk by minimizing coins in the hot, potentially compromisable address.
mdev: if that alg is weak or they're not sure about its reliability why didn't they use a more trustworthy one like RSA
mdev: don't get why they're so concerned
mdev: sure, but once your public key is out there
asciilifeform moved to different town recently, there are lottery machines everywhere
Naphex: mdev: if there are not transaction your pubkey is unavailable
mdev: the public key argument thing, about it being exposed after the first transaction, not sure why that's an issue, RSA is based off handing out public keys, I know bitcoin uses ECDMA or whatever, but still if the public key can't be trusted
asciilifeform: benkay: hypothesis: the devs have an 'address telescope' (box that continuously generates random addrs/keys) and are the kind of folks who like to play lotto.
benkay: bitcoin "devs" are idiotically and self-destructively committed to this "no reuse" idea, ever since implementing the braindead wallet schema that creates new addrs for your change
pankkake: and if you send say 0.1, only one of the two will be used
Naphex: the only option is to use multiple addresses
Naphex: so if you don't want to double spend / or do more then 1 transaction per confirmation
pankkake: but to distinguish transactions the process is : "I want to send 1 BTC" "ok, send me 1.00000832 BTC"
Naphex: you can only move the full amount every time
pankkake: addresses that never had outgoing transactions are sligthly more secure, as the private key is hidden
mdev: the android bug was a result of a bad random number gen
assbot: Why exactly reusing Bitcoin addresses strengthens Bitcoin user anonimity pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mike_c: mdev: http://trilema.com/2014/why-exactly-reusing-bitcoin-addresses-strengthens-bitcoin-user-anonimity/
assbot: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It
benkay: we also don't really talk about the stack to non-devs. it's just not relevant about 100% of the time.
Mats_cd03: its turtles all the way down
cgcardona: i remember the site being visually quite nice
benkay: the stack really helps.
cgcardona: i worked at Truila for a while and was on the hiring team for the mobile engineering dept. They offered really good salaries, stock, medical, etc and it was still hard to find people in SF
cgcardona: yea finding devs is the most challening thing. when in SF I witnessed many people raise money and then struggle to even find people to build their idea out.
benkay: promoted another lead myself, and had a second fall into my lap via a friend, so the pipeline is not empty either
cgcardona: yes that's one of the best types of feelings
benkay: well, a deal closed and the wire cleared this week so i'm feeling particularly good about that
cgcardona: pretty good. My family moved from SF back to kauai about 2 months ago and we're finally in the groove. Working remotely w/ a team from the mainland. I'm very happy. thanks for asking. You?
mircea_popescu: they sadly ran out of new york.
mircea_popescu: then i leave and he's like trying to apologize and explaoin he meant no disrespect
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where he needs it (bathroom) and whjat for (to have light) << the inescapable conclusion is that he needs it: in his arse, and as to what for: to expand his annulus diameter.
mircea_popescu: apparently the guy's phone rang, which ius sufficient cause to interrupr business.
mircea_popescu: then his SHOP ASSISTANT, which he apparently HAD but couldn't be bothered to bother, walks in
mircea_popescu: \then stops completely to derp with this guy, who finally leaves.
asciilifeform: ok since 'everyone' keeps asking, there is no (public) proof that discrete logarithm problem is np-complete. more interestingly, also no rigorous proof that rsa difficulty is equal to that of factoring problem.
mircea_popescu: benkay, you realise the black marketr dollar is more of a future than a spot. i should already see this future collapse in the price today.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in ro it's a girl's name, disused since the 1930s.
pankkake: did you guys see kickstarter opened the scamgates?