gribble: Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.
nubbins`: i just dented the floor with my keys :/
cazalla: nubbins`: too easy against cpu or online play? i've got to buy a pro wii controller as the gamepad gives me rsi with mk8
jurov: sceptre? didn't know you're so theatrically inclined
BingoBoingo: You know what would be the interesting desk accessory for bitcoiners, a Lucite genesis block, block. For use as a paperweight or bludgeon or whatever.
gribble: ClubOrlov: The Rationale behind the Boston Psy-ops: <http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-rationale-behind-boston-psy-ops.html>; JOURNAL: Dmitry Orlov on Collapse - Global Guerrillas: <http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/11/journal-dmitry-orlov-on-collapse.html>; Mario's Fresh Bait - Geelong, VIC - Shopping & Retail | Facebook: (1 more message)
mike_c: "Wilcox walked past Amanda Miller and confronted her husband. Amanda Miller then fatally shot Wilcox"
BingoBoingo: diametric: The people who supposed them and the people capable of making them were not the same groups of people I imagine.
jurov: btc signatures don't need blockchain either
benkay: <mircea_popescu> benkay: you don't need a blockchain to accept/send btc. << not to mention the coinbr thing. he really doesn't need the blockchain at all. // coinbr requires btc addr to sign up i b'leev
BingoBoingo: I wish I could know the answer to that
jurov: lol they will find lung and liver fossilies, bones long gone?
BingoBoingo: I wonder if sfter death my lungs will find themselves better preserved than my bones
mthreat: taxis in buenos aires are often cheaper than a bus ride in the US
mike_c: taste decent? i know this guy that gets dirt cheap smokes in canada and they taste like you're smoking somebody else's cigarette after they were done with it.
mircea_popescu: and actually good camels, as opposed to the fire-retardant, chemical blend crap they sell in the us/eu to justify the theory that smoking causes cancer
mircea_popescu: you should see the prices here.
mircea_popescu: a ok then lol
mike_c: but i distinctly remember comparing what i got charged to some of the posted prices in the store and realizing (and not minding) that he was bending me over.
mircea_popescu: was kinda curious what the actual factor was :p
mike_c: hmm.. what i paid would tax the memory. but just like drinks and stuff.
gribble: The camel has two humps (working title) - tof: <http://wiki.t-o-f.info/uploads/EDM4600/The%20camel%20has%20two%20humps.pdf>; The camel has two humps (working title) - University of Kent: <https://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/dept_info/seminars/2005_06/paper1.pdf>; Alan Kay on 'The Camel has Two Humps' - secretGeek: <http://secretgeek.net/camel_kay.asp>
asciilifeform: ;;google the camel has two humps
asciilifeform: learn which bits to put my hands on << i find this - in essence - to be the most handy test of who is worth dealing with as human vs meat
mircea_popescu: it has exactly zero to do with women specifically, and the whiny pretense to the contrary has only one indicaiton :
mircea_popescu: when i want to make tea rather than coffee, i acquire the skill of putting the righjt fucking thing in the pot.
mircea_popescu: when i don't want to be shocked by the mains power, i learn which bits to put my hands on.
mircea_popescu: this has nothing to do with women. when i don't want to be treated like a fucking retarded tourist and charged 2 to 5 x everything, i learn and use the fucking local language.
chetty: <mircea_popescu> dub: so one half of our sepcies should require additional training to protect its ass from the other half? << yes.// I doubt it works out to halves
mircea_popescu: in general, whenever one wants to deal with the world on one's own terms, one's required to take aditional training, and ALSO be talented.
mircea_popescu: dub: so one half of our sepcies should require additional training to protect its ass from the other half? << yes.
mircea_popescu: princessnell: feminists have again come full circle: attacking a beauty queen for insuffiently supporting patriarchy << they're spinnin' so fast they could be weaving wool.
Namworld: Well, it's always nice when you see someone with a last name befitting their career, at least.
mircea_popescu: so am i right in assuming the only career worthy of a man named brandon billings is... bill collection ?
pankkake: glacier is basically powered down hard drives. cheaper if you don't mind the high latency
mircea_popescu: the nutpacking service ?
mircea_popescu: mthreat well that for sure lol. fucking trilema is bigger than the blockchain
mircea_popescu: smickles: I have taken over the bitcoin corp in eve << how much shit was in the hangars in the end ?
mthreat: bigger than the blockchain
asciilifeform: if you want something your grandchildren might be able to copy, even if they cannot read - chemical photography. - that, or ink...
mircea_popescu: mthreat i don't recall, what's theirtotal data store ? yotabytes ?
mircea_popescu: there were some people looking into crystal doping storage
asciilifeform: very few things store as much (relatively) high fidelity data, and are at the same time as easy to duplicate, as film.
mircea_popescu: sorta like the smell of "we burned down 5000 hard drives. hopefully ALL th customers kept good backups
mircea_popescu: (there's this very distinctive vinegary scent of "o shit we just lost this warehousefull")
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i know people who go into seizures just fgrom the smell
nubbins`: grandfather was a war photographer, he lost boxes of negs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, it decays. but this is why the young apprentice must copy film he inherits, etc. [insert post-apocalyptic hypotheticals]
mircea_popescu: smickles wellyou asked. the value is lulz
mircea_popescu: how many were destroyed just to get rid of them
mircea_popescu: if you mean silver coloidal, it's utter shit. read up some time on the trouble hollywood has archiving, what itcosts,
smickles: I'm failing to see the value in this usagi crap and i didn't notice a video. I'm going to clean some dishes, easily worth more than reading about usagi
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's more one of those "let's inject some power into otherwise worthy projects geeks had been dilligently holding afloat with a cuttingboard and a spatula over 30 years"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Ms Boring forgot to make the distinction between the two Erik ventures << yeah not particularly inspiring.
mike_c: pankkake: once we all sign up for circle we won't need the blockchain.
pankkake: so you know you have the right sig. prevents mitm, because it's hard to mitm real life
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do confess that at one point i toyed with the idea of rom-like storage on consumer 35 (or 16)mm film.
nubbins`: just wondering what possible benefit could be gained by being represented in the "pgp wot" mentioned in article
pankkake: f2fs would be a good candidate for blockchain storage. anyway, I'm in the "block size won't go up that much, things will happen offchain" camp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: storing bits that never need to flip again ought to be technologically simpler - on basic physical level - than the normal kind. << this is a good point, and i imagine within the decade we will have special blockchain ssds being made.
mircea_popescu: moar like riemann hypothesis.
smickles: giving a thread title with [UnModerated] in it is like telling someone they are free
asciilifeform: if all but a few lost the chain << no problem if we have... singable checkpoint hashes.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony you gibt it to me in the past :D
fluffypony: smickles: make sure you watch the video
smickles: even if all but a few lost the chain, i would be very suspicious of that few
asciilifeform: to deliberately torment the btc-is-eeekvality crowd: WORM storage gizmo suggested as gedankenexperiment earlier could easily accept updates signed with hardcoded key from liege-lord
hdbuck: mircea_popescu im not taking anything personnally, i really appreciate your inputs man.. the average propaganda almost got me with their Carebears and unicorns. i'd rather being insulted for my stupidity than thrown a lollipop in my mouth ^^
mircea_popescu: it's the fucking scriptures you understand, if we all manage to lose the chain at the same time we're fucked.
diametric: just talking about the blockchain, not my keys.
Namworld: What the hell? That's one hell of a misread.
mircea_popescu: benkay: you don't need a blockchain to accept/send btc. << not to mention the coinbr thing. he really doesn't need the blockchain at all.
hdbuck: mircea_popescu hum i dont, just wondering here and there.. looking for answers :)
bitstein: "Centralization" is a vapid term without a sound theory of monopoly and competition.
hdbuck: mircea_popescu hey man, hum its just i was kinda concerned with supernodes and the people that will run them once the BC's size would be too big for the average person to handle.
mircea_popescu: instead, bitcoin favours centralism in the hands of unelected and unaccountable, unrepresentative lords.
mircea_popescu: oppose the ~wrong~ sort of centralism, ie, centralism in the hands of the more or less representative, more or less elected representatives of "people" as in, reddit derps.
mircea_popescu: hdbuck: benkay : well, some argue that the more the blochain size increase, the less people would actually download it to use bitcoins. other also argue that it would give more power to supernodes, centralising bitcoin, which was something that bitcoin was suppose to oppose. >> bitcoin was never intended for "people" in the sense of reddit derps, and bitcoin was never intended to oppose centralism. it was intended to
mircea_popescu: diametric: I have to admit, its annoying getting a fresh copy of the blockchain in a new client, even though I have the space, and I have 75Mbit internet, it still takes over 2 days. << i keep a master copy like the holy fucking scriptures. which is what it is anyway
dub: so one half of our sepcies should require additional training to protect its ass from the other half?
ThickAsThieves: because they really need to stop teaching it
assbot: The Value of App Coins | Lets Talk Bitcoin
bitstein: The appcoin fraudsters attempt to defend themselves: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/the-value-of-app-coins
smickles: I could buy exotic dancers or prostitutes and jetison them into space.
smickles: there isn't really a woman raping game mechanic
jurov: you have the time for eve???
smickles: I have taken over the bitcoin corp in eve
thestringpuller: the little one must be walking by now
Namworld: If he got in trouble for dice, the settlement would have been much larger.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: ;;later tell bitcoingirl honey you gotta do better than that. voorhees got in trouble for feedzebirds and not satoshidice - mostly 'cause DICE was listed on the SRO MPEx.
BingoBoingo: Mats_cd03: Bit-c looks like it is headed somewhere nice, but it's useful to compare how all of these things are approaching the SPV problem
assbot: The Boring Bitcoin Report: June 9 - Forbes
BingoBoingo: http://www.forbes.com/sites/perianneboring/2014/06/09/the-boring-bitcoin-report-june-9/ Ms Boring forgot to make the distinction between the two Erik ventures
Mats_cd03: i like where the project bit-c is right now
Mats_cd03: it seems like the world desperately needs a well documented SPV client
asciilifeform: one basic function in such a gadget is that it ought to be able to compare itself, via direct electrical wiring, to another one purporting to be identical.
asciilifeform: storing bits that never need to flip again ought to be technologically simpler - on basic physical level - than the normal kind.
asciilifeform: standardize calendar sync. and snippet length - so if you own one, you will always know if it works - compare to another one for same time period
benkay: hdbuck: if you're serious about wanting to learn, start with gpg. get into the wot, get a rating, lurk or derp in here as you see fit.
asciilifeform: wonder if anyone else has toyed with the idea of hardware purpose-built to store blockchain. think ssd, but write-only (antifuse! etc)
BingoBoingo: benkay: Nah, storage capacities are growing too fast and have too much of a head start. It will probably fit on a single hard drive for at least another decade. It's just... Parsing the block chain as a full node will probably require more thoroughput than a single drive offers.
Namworld: than the*
Namworld: Yeah blockchain is big. But storage capacity and computing power is increasing very rapidely and exponentially. Much faster the the amount of worldwide transactions.
benkay: some day you'll need an entire DC for the blockchain. what of it?
benkay: i imagine you're just a random joe not in the web of trust, hdbuck ?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user hdbuck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=hdbuck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=hdbuck | Rated since: never
benkay: hdbuck: are you ignoring the SPV thing?
hdbuck: benkay: ah i know you guys think of it as gold 2.0 which is not meant for the average joe to come around with but i am just not sure how this will all play out. :/
Namworld: The thing is current adoption rate is increasing much faster than storage capacity, so it's catching up and becoming large in today's standards.
Namworld: I'm somewhat expecting the blockchain size to eventually become negligible.
benkay: <hdbuck> benkay : well, some argue that the more the blochain size increase, the less people would actually download it to use bitcoins // you're conflating "fewer people using btc" with "bad for btc". this has yet to be established.
Namworld: It might be a problem for a short while. Assuming we reach saturation of usage, it might grow almost linearly, at least compared to storage capacity growth. Even if population growth and associated usage is exponential, the exponent is much lower than storage growth.
hdbuck: benkay : well, some argue that the more the blochain size increase, the less people would actually download it to use bitcoins. other also argue that it would give more power to supernodes, centralising bitcoin, which was something that bitcoin was suppose to oppose. or is it just the NSA and co that will run Bitcoin once it get too big? ^^
diametric: though I've never tried any of the bootstrap methods
diametric: I have to admit, its annoying getting a fresh copy of the blockchain in a new client, even though I have the space, and I have 75Mbit internet, it still takes over 2 days.
hdbuck: saw pretty pessimistic articles about that matter regarding the long run of Bitcoin. plus those core devs seem not to have a clue about what's going to happen - so i figured.. you guys should know better! ^^
Namworld: The blockchain ain't all that big yet...
hdbuck: benkay its not my personnal storing that i am concerned with. i am just wondering if this issue wont harm bitcoin on the long run.
benkay: hdbuck: there's also SPV, but I'm not entirely certain how that actually works.
benkay: hdbuck: if you can't afford the space to store the blockchain, what are you doing in btc anyways?
hdbuck: mircea_popescu hello MP, thx for the voice up, i came here with the hope you could help me apprehend that blockchain size issue (& considering it is an issue). been reading tons of articles about that and people talks about 'industrial' supernodes and/or 'restructuring' Bitcoin.. cant make up my mind whether thats good or bad tho. any inputs? :)
Namworld: Eheheh, I was looking at that part on wikipedia, reading up on FDSOI. Wondering what's the point of it if it's an expensive process.
mircea_popescu: Namworld anyway, ask them if they use saphire or not. the answer will be informative.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: advantage of making both in same batch -> you do it whether you want to or not. process yield.
mircea_popescu: as large as your batch can conceivably be, you'll sell it, either full or quarter.
mircea_popescu: the advantage of making both "in the same batch" is quite unclear, not like you'd be stuck with batches of like, 3 full and 7 1/4s
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, it's unclear to me what exact benefit would this be. if you can make 1 th asics, you can sell 1 th asics.
mircea_popescu: course so far that's correlated moreover negatively over the history of bitcoin miner manufacturers
asciilifeform: Namworld: not entirely nonsensical. see the story of the intel 486 dx - and many subsequent chips
Namworld: Anyone that knows about the ASIC design process, how non-sensical is that statement?
Namworld: "Our 28nm ASIC design architecture dubbed the “Creator” to be used at the foundry level allows for simultaneous production of the 1TH “Creator 1” Bitcoin ASIC, 256GH “Creator 2” Bitcoin ASIC and the 4MH “Creator 3” SCRYPT ASIC from the same wafer batch. This unique ability, and the lower costs associated with the FDSOI process, lends Provenance ASIC a competitive advantage
benkay: "disliking the usg makes you a bad person"
Namworld: Hmm, another Havelock IPO...
assbot: Log In - The New York Times
Namworld: So where was I in my half-asleep/half-daydreaming hypothetical nonsense scenarios?
mircea_popescu: punkman maybe if you explained the usecase ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: ;;later tell mircea_popescu a silly example, me and dignork both make a 1btc transaction to each other, but we can only spend them after the bitbet oracle signs the transaction
mircea_popescu: when btc makes it to that address the bet resolved.
punkman: if there's interest, you can also provide answers to things that aren't worth betting on
dignork: pankkake: the oracle can work like : yes/no/idunnohumanplease
pankkake: what kind of bets can be automatically verified? do you trust the source not to fuck up?
mircea_popescu: punkman oracle service cost is unbound is the problem.
dignork: mike_c: maybe only subset of bets, which can be automatically verified, these bets are submitted without review, less work for bitbet op, more monies for turnover
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: y'know, i think bitcoin has actually soured my opinion of the concept of an "idea" << actual business experience in the company of actual business people has soured you on infantile bullcrap. neither bitcoin nor ideas particularly involved.
pankkake: I like Amazon for delivering physical items, they do it very well
mircea_popescu: mike_c: idk, i'm not in the 'everything should be free' camp. << but the camp is "nothing should be amazon"
dignork: say they'll be redemed in case of detacted fraud
dignork: mike_c: i think it's possible to make a multisig fund, where each oracle op drops some funds, these funds are deal insurance, but I didn't think it through completely
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: l.o.l. << don't do something merely stupid. do something spectacularly stupid instead!!! and don't even mention the actually sane alternative, that's gonna hurt your feelings so it doesn't exist.
mike_c: dignork: but then you trusting the crowd of oracles to make the right decision. see rota for examples of that not working so well.
mircea_popescu: a decade back they introduced .ro, ie, for romania. i laughed at them then, i'm still laughi8ng at them
dignork: mircea_popescu: they open sourced their current code in git, assuming free security reviews, stopped watchig after that
mircea_popescu: pankkake: as well as litecoin.foundation. fuckers << dude who the fuck cares.
mircea_popescu: he's also stuck in the wrong paradigm.
mircea_popescu: "Second set of drafts coming through tomorrow. Seen a little preview, already looking very sharp. After that, we refine and then program. Looking good for the one month ETA"
mircea_popescu: anyway, the dunne thing, what about it dignork ? guy was briefly here about that time
jurov: mircea_popescu: that was 7 or so years ago, google worked as advertised then
dignork: mike_c: the git thing?
dignork: o dog, i know why the term looked familiar, mircea_popescu - forum cookies: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/xcp-ipo-announcement-dunnecapital-ltd-uk-bitcoin-exchange-and-a-casino.304299/
mircea_popescu: im onlyhere for the cookies
pankkake: the letters are available for free, this is just a nicer packaging
benkay: this ebook thing is a vehicle for this startupper to make money on others work
nubbins`: well, maybe soured isn't the word
pankkake: we need the bandcamp of ebooks: no account needed, pay and get un-drmed ebook in the format of your choice
nubbins`: y'know, i think bitcoin has actually soured my opinion of the concept of an "idea"
pankkake: I can save them if I want to, and it's not trying to forbid it
mike_c: you can't own trilema pages. gotta rent them.
fluffypony kicks xmj in the balls
benkay: Mats_cd03: we found the stuff as what was wrong and unfucked it.
mike_c: idk, i'm not in the 'everything should be free' camp.
pankkake: http://wikisend.com/download/960424/ first time I use the thing, tell me if it doesn't work
mike_c: $3 for an ebook sounds like the right price to me.
mike_c: why jerk up the 'our work' header?
mike_c: it moves around a lot when i click the client boxes
benkay: dorp i didn't see the "kindle 3 dollars" button
benkay: pankkake: it pops a modal. maybe one of the designers knows how to make it happen without js, but that's like 0.001% of potential clients.
pankkake: I have an un-drmed azw3 for the interested. can be easily converted to epub
pankkake: "if the idea is good" oh god :(
pankkake: my javascript blocking rules don't show comments there
fluffypony: I'm sure people would buy shares like crazy if you issue them as colored coins (if the idea is good)."
fluffypony: pankkake: have you seen the comment?
assbot: ELM - Extreme Wiring on the Prototyping Board
pankkake: not priceless, it costs ~20€ :p not counting the whois protections if available
mike_c: i don't do contract work. i've got some other insurance covering me, D&O or something
benkay: hey mike you do dev work in the states - have you ever gone in for errors and omissions insurance?
benkay: i'm calling it a business expense. the business buys all sorts of stupid fiat scams all the time.
benkay: i hate these four-hour-fuckers
benkay: and not the 'berkshire hathaway letters'?
benkay: so those are the 'buffet partnership letters'
benkay: "There are undoubtedly more mercurially-tempered people in the stock market now than for a good many years, and the duration of their stay will be limited to how long they think profits can be made quickly and effortlessly."
mike_c: interesting. those aren't the B/H letters, but those look good too.
mike_c: which is easier when you are the controlling shareholder.
mike_c: interesting because the early years are him digging his way out of his first mistakes (buying a textile company)
mike_c: somebody prolly has them posted somewhere if you look around.
mike_c: 1965 - 76 aren't online, but the ebook is only $3.
benkay: i'm just messing with you, jurov. i've never actually succeeded in piping hookers over the internet.
jurov: benkay you tend to think the siren is a whore?
dignork: so is the http://www.coindesk.com/details-spondoolies-tech-new-bitcoin-mining-asic-leaked-online/ claiming a leak of ASIC specs - hint: they where published on bitcointalk in april
Apocalyptic: <dignork> also it's funny to call a "leak" something that is published on their site in specs :) // gotta attract the audience
dignork: also it's funny to call a "leak" something that is published on their site in specs :)
dignork: there is some nonsense in spoondoolies article, for example BeagleBoneBlack
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: Sent 2 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <bitcoinpete> have a couple of the lealana physical coins (2x10, 2x25) but i'm having a hard time figuring out what they're worth. could you point me in the right direction?
gribble: Sent 3 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, and 9 minutes ago: <jurov> chan clamors for -assets tshirt i recommend the disck surgery motive and Sent 2 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <bitcoinpete> i have a couple of the lealana physical coins (2x10, 2x25) but i'm having a hard time figuring out what they're worth. could you point me in the right direction?
FabianB: mircea_popescu: the file is encrypted for you, can you reencrypt it with my key?
mircea_popescu: <daybyter> any java coder here interested in trading code? << whoa just like the old days!
mircea_popescu: we still don;t know who these are ?
assbot: MPEx, the Bitcoin securities exchange.
mircea_popescu: check this shit out, otherthan luke and peter todd, nobody in my bitcoin wot is in the pgp strong set
pankkake: and it is in the strong set. I guess I could get in there by signing the old key in the other direction
pankkake: perhaps I could let other anonymouses I met IRL sign me, but how do they check I am myself?!
pankkake: I'd rather not sign it, pankkake is an anonymous entity
mircea_popescu: neither is dub nor FabianB nor pigeons. but luke is http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/mk_path.cgi?FROM=2FB7B452&TO=21F4889F&PATHS=trust+paths
mircea_popescu: neither is kako :D
pankkake: I'm in it with other key(s) :)
mircea_popescu: basically the wot here enforces strong setness by default
mircea_popescu: "The strong set is the largest set of keys such that for any two keys in the set, there is a path from one to the other."
pankkake: how do you tell if you're in the strong set?
mircea_popescu: "We are asking for information that proves unlawful or corrupt conduct by the US government, the New Zealand government, spy agencies, law enforcement and Hollywood"
mircea_popescu: (i am in the strong set. are you ?)
mircea_popescu: haha hopefully the bears get food stamps next.
assbot: Alpha-male bear facing castration as sexual dominance threatens population | Environment | theguardian.com