jurov: fluffypony: the keyword for kako was "slanderous soul"
punkman: pankkake: oh they changed their mind already, http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/11/wood-aged-cheese-is-ok-says-fda
assbot: Did the FDA Just Ban European Cheese? | Cato @ Liberty
punkman: pankkake: wireless all the things!
assbot: NSA Custom Hardware: The FLUXBABBITT Implant (And Why It’s Important) | Mike the Crypto Goat
pankkake: http://mikethegoat.wordpress.com/2014/06/12/nsa-custom-hardware-the-fluxbabbitt-implant-and-why-its-important/ => makes me think, hardware keyloggers are a nasty thing
punkman: picked my apricot tree couple weeks ago, sick of them by now
punkman: jurov, don't they get stuck with a bunch of mediocre watermelons then? or do they sell them to the next sucker
pankkake: especially for clementines; batches are very different and there are some characteristics I'm looking for
pankkake: though I've always had the project of crowdsourcing fruit arrival data
punkman: quite often the case
punkman: pankkake: yeah that's the problem with watermelons, although the merchants often cut one up for tasting
pankkake: I've mastered the chosing of avocados
pankkake: why not? there's always weird tricks with food
decimation: here's a 'link' http://klassix.net/keith/Kindle%20Backup%202-20-11/documents/First%20Circle,%20The%20-%20Alexander%20Solzhenitsyn.txt
decimation: asciilifeform my favorite quote from "the first circle": "A familiar figure in many prison research establishments, Professor Chelnov, an old mathematician arrested seventeen years ago and who, when he had to fill in a form, put down his nationality not as 'Russian' but as 'zek', had applied his mind to many inventions, from the direct flow boiler to the jet engine, and had put his heart and soul into several of them."
gribble: The operation succeeded.
unbalanced: ;;later tell nubbins I'm in the WOT! Only took what, 4 months from Inception? PM at will.
unbalanced: You just knew about the max 4x diff jump, I haven't heard many people who know that. But I suppose it makes sense that everyone here would.
mike_c: he's not a merchant, he's a market maker. i'm sure the diff changes are great for him.
unbalanced: You don't need it with LeaseRig.net, see the pastebin somewhere 8 miles up.
mircea_popescu: mike_c from what i recall BingoBoingo wasn't too adverse to the jumps
unbalanced: See, with ATC you can relive the early days of BTC!
unbalanced: Purely routine. Just a test. No, no need to read the fine print. Just sign here.
mike_c: mircea_popescu: i would not, but i'd gladly take their coin.
unbalanced: You know MP, I'm testing my ATC wallet. Could you send me all your ATC, and then I'll send it back?
mircea_popescu: mike_c would you take the jd gamblers to dinner ?
mircea_popescu: i really don't see th econcern. if anything, slow txn are good for a coin, they keep the people in a hurry at bay
unbalanced: Yes, I guess a tslb of >1hr only matters if the coin is moving around more than once an hour. Or day.
mircea_popescu: mike_c haven't heard from the satoshijack dude in a long time
mike_c: mircea_popescu: x-bt for one. is satoshijack still around? plus possibly some other merchants in development.
mike_c: cuz the miners should have dropped in price.
mike_c: and i ran the numbers before btc diff went up, so it could be better
unbalanced: Rough back-of-the-envelope I'd say 400 satoshis per ATC if I'm lucky. Is that what you got mike_c or am I off by an order of magnitude?
mike_c: it's like we have discussed before. it affects merchants. it's not as easy to move coin around. this makes little difference for the occasional user, but 1 hour block time on average means sometimes 2+ hours for a block.
mircea_popescu: mike_c sotell me then :D
unbalanced: thestringpuller, by "dump" mike_c meant a pastebin link somewhere above, detailing how to use leaserig.net to employ mining rigs on demand.
mike_c: i ran the numbers, but I won't tell if you don't want to know :)
unbalanced: The diff is still unfolding so I don't have a final number yet. I haven't wanted to calculate it or I might stop.
mike_c: they do to me.
mike_c: i don't worry about the coin dying, but +80%/-80% diff changes are annoying.
thestringpuller: seems fun, like a glimpse in the past...
mircea_popescu: unbalanced its perfectly uneconomical to try and kill the coin already.
mike_c: yeah. i don't know if it's the right thing to do, but I do think it's worth trying.
unbalanced: I just want to make it increasingly uneconomical to try to kill the coin. Just an experiment really.
unbalanced: I figure that the -25% to -50% range is desirable, as long as it doesn't fall so far someone can't easily spike it up 4x again.
mike_c: hehe, then thank you too
unbalanced: Hey, I took that dump. That's my dump! But thanks for the later-ing ThickAsThieves.
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: thanks for the dump
mircea_popescu: so why are you there!
decimation: solzhenitsyn's "the first circle" resonates with me. in the collectivist us, it is hard to escape this condition
assbot: White SeaBaltic Canal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: I'm just a zek, trying to scrape by in the world
unbalanced: ;;rate BingoBoingo 1 Wrote helpful GPG guide. May be my arch-nemesis in the ATC mines though, not sure yet.
unbalanced: Ah. I was going to ask you why they print on that orange-pink paper. Don't dodge the question!
decimation: sorry for the unclear language
decimation: heh no the link is entitled "my best interview" on taleb's page
decimation: he did an "ama" for the redditards, and he mostly dodged bitcoin: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1aoi0s/iam_nassim_taleb_author_of_antifragile_ama/c8zb3d8
decimation: abosolutely. he might be too integrated in the wall street wot to make new friends here though
decimation: which puts you right back into having to make friends and influence people in the bezzle wot
decimation: if you take the king's shekels etc
asciilifeform: they like prior art.
decimation: using magnetic ram for each of the LUT modules?
asciilifeform: and build the actual state in fpga out of same.
asciilifeform: if you have the magnetic ram (actually available commercially, no need to wait for hp) you can dispense with the disk.
asciilifeform: only the circuit that marshalls state from the independent modules (e.g. keyboard buffer) to magnetic storage needs to know that it's a disk, and comes in 0...N 'LBA' blocks, etc.
asciilifeform: but if you have the option of doing the last 35 yrs. of hardware again - you can toss it.
asciilifeform: that is, there is no reason why, say, garbage collector circuit (yes) needs to be able to request a byte from my keyboard buffer.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Trust relationship from user assbot to user mircea_popescu: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 23 via 23 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=mircea_popescu | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mircea_popescu | Rated since: Fri Jul 22 11:04:26 2011
asciilifeform: decimation: think 'emulation of room-sized fpga' and you're 90 percent there.
mircea_popescu: even the most accomplished anal insertion artist, who can take ANYTHING would not survive a parachute-less parachute fall
justusranvier: There could be dedicated areas in the memory space that could be hardware wiped, and operations resumed from a hardcoded address. That would be like a reboot.
unbalanced: Don't I need 2 hit points? Or just the one?
asciilifeform: (when was the last time you pulled your disk's cache sram out?)
decimation: but presumably the OS comes on an EPROM
decimation: the cache can be refreshed
asciilifeform: decimation: you must really think about this to understand the implications. a single-address space machine must... actually work. every time - because it can in no sense be rebooted.
decimation: it's the original apple
decimation: pretty much all modern commercial OS's are on the BSD family tree somewhere
unbalanced: There, this was all worth it.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: but ascii, the article says that HP has experience with HP-UX and "non-stop"
asciilifeform: note that the hardware aspect of this is trivially achievable today
decimation: yeah the IEEE thing seems to be more academi-tardation. quantum neuro whatever buzzword
gribble: Persistence (computer science) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_(computer_science)>; CTO : Orthogonal Persistence - TUNES Project: <http://tunes.org/wiki/orthogonal_20persistence.html>; Orthogonal Persistence - Java Community Process: <https://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=020>
assbot: With 'The Machine,' HP May Have Invented a New Kind of Computer - Businessweek
decimation: also this: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-11/with-the-machine-hp-may-have-invented-a-new-kind-of-computer
asciilifeform: 'We maintain a fleet of self-healing, auto-scaling Bitcoind nodes.' << will they chew your food for you, too ?
unbalanced: Ermahgerd I fell *up* the stairs. <beck>Things are gonna change, I can feel it.</beck>
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: The reason I didn't recommend Seahorse is it is a pain. Geany has a spell checker at least.
unbalanced: Where else do the cool kids hang out?
mircea_popescu: course if i had it'd not have linked all the darkcoin and "insurection" would have lead to something about the serenissima, but anyway
unbalanced: Or if one of these sent me to Seahorse months ago I don't see it now.
unbalanced: Clarification, Bingo's posts led me to Geany for message signing, not to Seahorse. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/31/signature-thursday-geany-a-gui-text-editor-for-gpg-tasks/
mircea_popescu: "Ever since the venture capital scene started talking about Bitcoin back in 2013, one of the most frequently cited comments from them is that Bitcoin is interesting for the technology, not the currency. In fact, this mantra has become so common that it almost sounds
scripted." << if you're curious as to the reason, it has to do with them not wanting to go under the yoke that's been awaiting patiently and quite unav
mircea_popescu: If cheating can be easily detected and reversed, then maybe its no longer essential to prevent it at all costs and you can build it with a more palatable set of trade offs. << in fact, there's a reason business has since forever run on "eventually correct" bookkeeping
gribble: Loper OS » The Wisdom of Erik Naggum: <http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165>; Loper OS » Engelbart's Violin: <http://www.loper-os.org/?p=861>; Worse is Better - Erik Naggum: <http://naggum.no/worse-is-better.html>
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller eh come on
thestringpuller: to other dumb niggas.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nigga+technology | Useless, pointless technology invented for the apparent purpose of prolonging a simple task beyond the length of time it should take. Nigga Technology is ...
thestringpuller: You see Rakim wants what they call nigga technology.
mircea_popescu: anyway. it seems to me that adding anything to your latter turns the former into the latter's logical counter.
justusranvier: I believe I convered that possibility when I said "providing only that they can find a trading partner willing to deal with them."
mircea_popescu: i thought rakim was like the goatse guy
justusranvier: If no third party can interfere with the voluntary dealings of other people, then anyone who desires to participate can do so, providing only that they can find a trading partner willing to deal with them.
asciilifeform: random.gov, a kindler, gentler key escrow. sorta like lotteries as a more 'humane' tax on the arithmetically-challenged
mircea_popescu: i don't see why anything more is needed or desirable than the latter.
justusranvier: Not equivalent. The latter is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for the former.
mircea_popescu: ".I want to see a future digital economy in which nobody is excluded from participation." "No third party should have the ability to interfere in the voluntary dealings of other people." << do you see these as logically equivalent ?
mircea_popescu: "Given all these downsides, it should be apparent that decentralization isnt something to aspire to lightly. In fact, it may be better to say that decentralization as a design technique is best reserved as a last resort, only to be used when there are no other suitable alternatives."
asciilifeform: (they should offer a pay service! i bet chumps would flood in)
mircea_popescu: where he had found a tutorial on the net to make arbitrary length keys and was offering this as a sort of forum-level braindamaged saas ?
asciilifeform: i hear they generate beautiful keys at ft meade
teward: agreed, asciilifeform, to be honest, CLI is my native environment, I prefer managing my keys via CLI. I just use Seahorse for generating, the GUI has a tiny bit more entropy, and I generate only 4096-strength keys :)
teward: i use it 100% of the time for pgp keyring management, and given I have 20 or so keys, well... :P
teward: this +v can last 2 minutes, but Seahorse is the GUI for user-friendliness of GnuPG/PGP in Linux. :)
unbalanced: Only using Seahorse because of user-friendliness for now. Though I might figure out git next and submit a patch to their pop-up message.
teward: mircea_popescu: OTC operator, plus emergency op in #bitcoin, i started lurking here after seeing a +1 rating on someone for the purposes of trust tree to the bot
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user teward: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=teward | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=teward | Rated since: Thu Jan 16 14:58:46 2014
unbalanced: It does NOT say "This will publish the PUBLIC keys in your key ring..." so I thought, "F that!"
unbalanced: "This will publish the keys in your key ring so they're available for others to use. You'll also get any changes others have made since you received their keys. 1 key is selected for synchronizing"
unbalanced: So I tried the "Sync and Publish Keys..." link on the "Remote" menu in Seahorse. And the warning message pops up:
mircea_popescu: happy friday the 13th btw
unbalanced: I set it all up, using Seahorse... but I have to put a public key "out there" so people could encrypt messages to me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have it right nwo. it's there << rewrote btcd?
justusranvier: All the email privacy you could want? You must not want to have privacy regarding the fact that you're sending messages, nor the recipients of those messages.
mircea_popescu: cause otherwise this discussion is exactlylike email privacy. i have all the email privacy i could want, because gpg
mircea_popescu: so basically the idea is to make it more accessible ?
justusranvier: There are better ways of achieving privacy that aren't quite so fragile
justusranvier: It's there for people who are extremely careful and make no mistakes.
mircea_popescu: anbd what throne lol. a bunch of redditards with ten bitcoin between them that keep downloading the power ranger code ?
mircea_popescu: i have it right nwo. it's there.
justusranvier: Not until Bitcoin Core is dethroned as the monolopy full node implementation though
justusranvier: I think we will get privacy on the blockchain eventually.
mircea_popescu: much in the way the internet has forced the brits into their first secret "trial", something they've not had in about 11 centuries.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the fact that bitcoin is not actually traceable, and all the sophistry of taint can at most produce persuasion is one of the largest points of pressure applied by bitcoin to human society. it may result in the "reasonable doubt" standard being taken out.
mircea_popescu: there's little way to avoid it. not so with bitcoin
justusranvier: People skilled in that art can do a lot more, given the improved access to information
justusranvier: All of those approaches you mention for cash only operate on a subset of the "address space". Graph analysis of the blockchain can look at the entire data set, forever.
mircea_popescu: neither can bitcoin's.
mircea_popescu: but you're not proposing the correct equivalence
mircea_popescu: there you go.
mircea_popescu: all the cash that exists exists. by this it can be counted
justusranvier: Is there a USDchain.info where anyone can view every transaction that ever occurred with a given bill?
mircea_popescu: justusranvier so are there for cash.
justusranvier: Because there are always sidechannels
unbalanced: I don't have a lot of hardware is why... at the time I was on a Windows machine using a Linux VM. Now I'm pure. Linux.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier "Using the global public ledger that allows for multilateral decision making means that retaining financial privacy is, to put it lightly, problematic. Its possible to achieve, but doing so is a difficult and delicate process where mistakes are easy to make and also permanent." i don't understand this part, at all.
mircea_popescu: well that's kinda how these thons work. not enough time really.
unbalanced: But before I do, I agree MP, I didn't take not winning the hackathon badly, I only said my thing wasn't "good enough" because a) it wasn't all done in time and b) my math was less than accurate. Empirically not good enough for anyone to use.
BingoBoingo: unbalanced: If you did the GPG guide that's the hard part... registering with gribble doesn't hurt at all
mircea_popescu: this is to the conference circuit roughly what porn is to legitimate acting : the place failures go to die.
mircea_popescu: just go to the hackathon as you go to the bar, not like you go to school. it's a social function.
unbalanced: I usually *give off* the cray-cray vibe when it comes to Bitcoin. Didn't expect people could outdo me for tech optimism.
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, what difference does it make anyway ? not like any human being at an accessible pay grade can judge your thing anyway.
unbalanced: Agreed. I walked away from several folks when I began to get the cray-cray vibe.
ThickAsThieves: the cult takes new forms over time
mircea_popescu: on one hand it's completely irrelevant who "judges" these things, just like the people running around begging perelman to take their "award" so they may say "o we gave perelman an award, please think we matter" are irrelevant to math
unbalanced: By the time I left that conference I thought Bitcoin was a cult of decentralization. Decentralize all the things!
unbalanced: It took place right inside Ethereum HQ
mircea_popescu: people are incredibly arrogant, so a bunch of them getting hurt badly is good news.
unbalanced: I was at the Bitcoin Hackathon in Toronto a couple of months back, and DJ was a judge.
mircea_popescu: that's good then.
mircea_popescu: byut anyway, the circus is the circus. this is why we call it the circus, this is why we despise it, this is what it does.
justusranvier: Anyway, a lot of businesses trying to get involved in Bitcoin got some bad advice from him. Some of them did ask around for second opinions though, and avoided that particular pitfall anyway.
mircea_popescu: a collection of three idiots does not become a startup through their declaration to that effect, in my view.
justusranvier: What's sad is the number of Bitcoin startups that were taking advice from him.
mircea_popescu: Many knowledgeable observers called the whole thing a success. Irvines team wound up with three million in BTC after all. Ryan Galt, an investor who blogs as Two-Bit Idiot, noted the pump-and-dump that happened but said the number one takeaway was to make sure to get in early when a hot new coin-related startup announces a crowdsale. You better be ready to buy the second it goes live, he wrote.
justusranvier: To my untrained eye, it looks like certain people got a unhappy with DJohnston using their reputations without their consent, so they kicked him out of BitAngles into his own sandbox.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier the unbalanced one ? yua
justusranvier: DId you read the pastebin?
mircea_popescu: Jacob Farber of Perkins Coie who advises Bit Angels wrote, It seems pretty clear that there was no intentional market manipulation. The question is whether there was an appearance of market manipulation, or an unintended market manipulation. <<< it's pretty obvious that there was quite intentional, and quite fraudulent, market manipulation.
mircea_popescu: All issuers selling securities to the public must comply with the registration provisions of the securities laws, including issuers who seek to raise funds using Bitcoin, said Andrew J. Ceresney, the SECs enforcement director in a press release. We will continue to focus on enforcing our rules and regulations as they apply to digital currencies.
mircea_popescu: We took advice from the US lawyers via BitAngels and also local lawyers in Scotland,
mircea_popescu: for them, no.
justusranvier: It doesn't look so good for the appcoin pumpers
mircea_popescu: justusranvier so much lulz in there.
mthreat: mircea_popescu: anyway his name is tomas, if you go by there
diametric: should read scrollback, i'm assuming it was the topic for a while
mircea_popescu: so im fishin' in rift an' shootin' da breeze in -assets. what better lyf is there.
asciilifeform: sank the company, too
assbot: Maidsafe and Mastercoin: The first crypto-coin Kickstarter was a wildly successful $7 million disaster. http://t.co/YllunlEBOZ
unbalanced: Vic-20, those were the days.
assbot: Amiga CD32 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: prolly should have a drink with him then
mthreat: mircea_popescu: this c64 talk reminds me, the owner of krakow bar in san telmo is an oldschool c64 hacker from poland. http://www.krakow-cafe.com.ar/
mircea_popescu: srsly get in the wot will you.
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user unbalanced: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=unbalanced | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=unbalanced | Rated since: never
mircea_popescu: " The performance we've had is astounding, and just because it lags behind the performance of Bitcoin should not take away from that."
kakobrekla: USD when comparing it over time. The performance we've had is astounding, and just because it lags behind the performance of Bitcoin should not take away from that. We've still managed to outperform more than 99% of the other things you could have spent your BTC on. Silver for example was $28.50 on our IPO date and is $19.50 now, yet I don't see you trolling silver dealers on here.
kakobrekla: It is true that Bitcoin outperformed Nasty Mining. Bitcoin had an amazing 2 years of growth and was exposed to billions of people. However, funds invested in Nasty Mining were spent in USD on items that are valued in USD. In fact, pretty much everything is valued in USD (or your local fiat currency), which is why BTC is valued at the conversion rate at the time of transfer to any real organization. It only makes sense to value Nasty Mi
asciilifeform: chain.com << 'i dontwanna use the blockchain, mitm me please'
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> btw i never had the 'wolf & eggs.' too l33t. borrowed from kid next door. << that kicked ass
dub: no storage so you input the game in basic and had to do it again when your mom made you turn it off
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: i still remember the shock of encountering widgets that resembled actual comp but weren't programmable.
asciilifeform: these gizmos were prized rarities.
asciilifeform: btw i never had the 'wolf & eggs.' too l33t. borrowed from kid next door.
cazalla: we had similar knock offs in australia, it was my grandmother who bought me brick when i wanted a gameboy with tetris and she tried to tell me it was the same thing
cazalla: tfw too poor to own a gameboy, somehow $2 brick from reject shop didn't fill the void
bloctoc: is the french rate that ECB negative rate from a week or two ago?
mircea_popescu: your eye impaled upon the impending ?
benkay: implying the thing impends and that i've my eye upon it.
mircea_popescu: the time to <derp derp derp> is nigh, if not upon us already
benkay: lol no the implication is that knowing that a thing is upon one is a hard thing to figure
ThickAsThieves: it's implied that you'd know when it was upon you, so surmising whether it may already be is only exposing a state of nigh
benkay: grammar question: "the time to <derp derp derp> is nigh if not upon us already" << y/n?
mircea_popescu: apparently the guy is a total gold bug. the ever helpful tardopedia : " His 20 year tenure as head of Forbes magazine coincided with the decline of the publication and the Forbes family empire."
ThickAsThieves: “Somebody can’t go and use a whole bunch of our patents but then sue us for using one of theirs,” Musk said “That seems like it wouldn’t be a very nice thing to do.”
asciilifeform: ^ predicted the collapse of ussr, off by 1/2 decade
gribble: Andrei Amalrik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Amalrik>; ANDREI AMALRIK Part 1 - Stetson University: <http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/classes/amalrik1.html>; ANDREI AMALRIK WILL THE SOVIET UNION SURVIVE TO 1984: <http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/classes/amalrik2.html>
mircea_popescu: and their political position is made more difficult by the presence of the millitant communists in the democrat party.
ThickAsThieves: hehe i just read the part about he started weightlifting cuz he was worried for his safety
davout: asciilifeform: "afaik he never penetrated the 'bozo barrier field' that surrounds it" <<< haha, that's probably very true
mircea_popescu: davout because to this day about half of the us bureaucracy is shielded by only the flimsy "nobody could have predicted"
asciilifeform: good point, actually. anyone else find it interesting that the man still lives?
asciilifeform: afaik he never penetrated the 'bozo barrier field' that surrounds it
davout: from what i understand of the black swan, his ideas pretty much destroy the rationales by which risk is managed in traditional finance