moiety: well then, i'll be shutting up now
gribble: Soggy biscuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soggy_biscuit>; Urban Dictionary: cum biscuit: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cum%20biscuit>; Urban Dictionary: soggy biscuit: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=soggy%20biscuit>
mircea_popescu: "But of course, cannibalism is not PC either and embracing something simply and solely on the basis that it is a reaction is one of the stupidest things humans can do. You cant build a life on protest and reaction." <<< ahahaha
mircea_popescu: - They also have all their own secret handshakes, and their own terminology [like the Cathedral ("political correctness"), thedening ("re-establishing ethnic group identity"), genophilia ("love of one's own race"), NRx ("neoreaction"), etc.].
mircea_popescu: they're doing the sweaing on the ilyad and drinking out of specially made pornoi cups
mircea_popescu: i keep waiting for the biscuit already
mircea_popescu: "For the initial oath taking, everyone must swear on a copy of Darwins Origin of Species, just to show their fidelity to HBD"
mircea_popescu: " The Dark Enlightenment allegedly has millions of dollars of money to play with."
asciilifeform: (some weirdo actually sent me the link)
mircea_popescu: - I never met any of the higher Eldars, but I did once meet an Eldar in Training. I dont know his real name but people called him Legolas. He had long blond hair, was dressed like a 19th century count, and wore a pendant that had both a Christian Cross and Thors Hammer on it.
assbot: A Reader Writes of his Experience Among the Dark Enlightenment Types
asciilifeform: from the loltraps: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2014/02/a-reader-writes-of-his-experience-among-the-dark-enlightenment-types.html
mircea_popescu: i'd rather respect indian hajira.
mircea_popescu: western women aspire to the respect of men, while living their western lives ?! lolk.
mircea_popescu: hat we now have in academia is a situation where intelligent men and women prostitute themselves to an ideal which no intelligent person could believe. In short they are living a lie.
punkman: yeah it's not that hard to come up with a simple bot and enter the tournament
mircea_popescu: punkman actually, this could have a direct application. let people back the bots, buy shares.
punkman: from Hofstadter: "Two people meet and exchange closed bags, with the understanding that one of them contains money, and the other contains a purchase. Either player can choose to honor the deal by putting into his or her bag what he or she agreed, or he or she can defect by handing over an empty bag."
punkman: I'm gonna call the form Iterated Closed-Bag Exchange, more relevant
mircea_popescu: If a 12 year-old were to write 'I fink that Enid Blyton iz bettern than that Emily Bronte bint cos she has written loads more books' then one could reasonably excuse the spelling as reflective of the stupidity of the mind that produced the content.
punkman: "TODO: Is that 'no other state' thing valid? What if a bot wants to do some behavior only once, but when exactly it does so is randomly determined? I believe this could require some saved information besides the history of moves, but this seems like a valid strategy."
punkman: " should use only static initialization variables, randomness, and past moves in order to make a decision. No other state should be updated/saved/taken into account."
mircea_popescu: dents to learn this and many attended, including students who had attended a course incorporating logic programming the previous term. It was a battle to get the students to do this, not least because two senior lecturers criticised the exercise as presenting too much of a challenge to the students.
mircea_popescu: After seven years of the new regime, I had the opportunity to compare the class of 1999 with the class of 1992. In 1992 I set an course in Artificial Intelligence requiring students to solve six exercises, including building a Prolog interpreter. In 1999, six exercises had shrunk to one; which was a 12 line Prolog program for which eight weeks were allotted for students to write it. A special class was laid on for stu
punkman: (in the current round)
mircea_popescu: that's ok then
mircea_popescu: not as the all-crucial "he y'd you you n'd him"
punkman: they like number
mircea_popescu: these are also per-bot factors
mircea_popescu: the bot that only cares of its own history has max, and the bot that ignores its own has min.
mircea_popescu: a bot that takes a betrayal against itself as badly as a betrayal against the world has average ego.
mircea_popescu: now, on this information, each both has an ego, defined as the balance between the weight they give their own history vs the collected world history
mircea_popescu: c) each bot has idem 0 to 20 of their type and also 0 to 5 of all types.
mircea_popescu: b) each bot has a 0 to 20% chance of knowing how their opponent player against each bot of their type
mircea_popescu: specifically : a) each bot has a 0 to 20% chance of knowing how their opponent played against each other bot. this is fixed for the respective bot.
assbot: IPD_Morality/the_bots.py at master tscizzle/IPD_Morality GitHub
mircea_popescu: but, importantly, give them ego.
Mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: forgot the '(yet)'.
mircea_popescu: so make 400 bots, 20 of each type, meet everyone 500 times and play for n where the probability is .95
punkman: mircea_popescu: about that simulation, there are 20 bots, they meet everyone else 5 times and play for N rounds each time they meet, after each round there's a 0.995 probability they will stop.
BingoBoingo: punkman: Yeah, it's going to be tricky. Wonder how much hash is going to arrive after the diff change
decimation: thanks for the book asciilifeform
punkman: heh "JOSS defaults to cooperation on the first turn, and thereafter mirrors its partner's previous move, except after its partner cooperates, JOSS defects with some probability to see what it can get away with every once in a while."
thestringpuller: 5 conspiracy theories that are actually real
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 5 reasons why losing 10 years' investment in iraq isn't a disaster, 5 reason why higher inflation isn't higher inflation, 5 reasons why the failure of each and every obamapolicy isn't a failure of the left, or of blacks, or of the electoral system, or of the general public,
mircea_popescu: by now the research paper journals are little more than blogs anyway.
assbot: Iraq, oil markets, and the U.S. economy | Econbrowser
punkman: mircea_popescu: probably publishable as a paper if you can be bothered to run in that threadmill << not a big fan of academics, but I can blag it now
asciilifeform: http://faraday.fie.umich.mx/~rrusiles/Fie/Horizontal/Hopcroft_Introduction_to_Automata_Theory_Languages_and_Computation.pdf
asciilifeform: l&l is geared to methods of theoretical physics (landau's famous 'minimum' exam)
asciilifeform: also ask yourself, which mathematics
asciilifeform: i especially liked the 'obsolete' chapter on mechanical computers
asciilifeform: the 'content methods & meaning' by dover is a pretty fine encyclopaedic text
asciilifeform: punkman: otherwise what mircea_popescu said
mircea_popescu: punkman L.D.Landau and E.M.Leifshitz. all the math one could ever want.
punkman: "upon the time" ftw
assbot: Mathematics: Its Content, Methods and Meaning (Dover Books on Mathematics): A. D. Aleksandrov, A. N. Kolmogorov, M. A. Lavrentev, Mathematics: 9780486409160: Amazon.com: Books
punkman: so once upon the time I was a math student, but then I forgot everything, and now I'm looking for a couple of good books. I found this one http://www.amazon.com/dp/0486409163/ . Any other suggestions?
[]bot: Bet created: "Anyone other than Messi/Ronaldo/Suarez to win the 2014 FIFA Ballon d'Or" http://bitbet.us/bet/959/
mthreat: There was this romanian restaurant in Austin. It was called "Dracula".
punkman: did nubbins have a blog, or am I remembering some other sausage-blog
punkman: lest there be two dozen recipes posted one day
mircea_popescu: anyway, trained girlz, can make it. i care not for the city :D
Namworld: Apple stock at 100? Was there a split or did it drop a lot? I think it was around 500-800 not long ago.
mircea_popescu: there's little incentive for it yet.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves can't be large ? hm. the hansa was very large. i believe it can be quite large.
mircea_popescu: well it doesn't offer them anymore
ThickAsThieves: coindesk has to articles about people offering bitcoin options, neither mentions mpex
assbot: News from The Associated Press
chetty: I think closed is kinda relative tho, more like the semi-permeable membrane
ThickAsThieves: not the individual
ThickAsThieves: age of the group
ThickAsThieves: i'm more referring to the the dynamics of a closed society in an effort to bring quality/robustness or whatever
chetty: ThickAsThieves,avg life in the time frame was short, if you lived very long you likely had more wisdom (which is why you lived)
mircea_popescu: "democracy" as practiced among a hundred that know each other is no democracy anyway
FabianB: mircea_popescu: my logs are burried in old backups on disks at a place i'm unlikely to be at in the next 2 to 3 weeks, so unless it's still useful by then i'll keep them there
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> such are the blessings of closed society : that art may flourish. democracy and social mobility allows for no such thing. //// or a *small* society --- but maybe i'm splitting hairs
moiety: chetty: i'm a disgrace i know XD i find it so hard when they are such idiots
gribble: The operation succeeded.
moiety: i upset the doge people last night
gribble: The operation succeeded.
moiety: ;; later tell BingoBoingo I simply said "fuck you" to someone and the whole place started convulsing with butthurt.. and then made it worse by demonstrating remorse lvl : -40
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user casascius: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=casascius | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=casascius | Rated since: Fri May 13 00:14:25 2011
mircea_popescu: decimation and so they have modified themselves. no man living with carlyle would regard the average existence of today's westerner as anything but the most abject imprisonment
decimation: lol Carlyle has the same "non-persons" theory: "If the unfathomable Universe has decided to reject Human Beavers pretending to be Men; and will abolish, pretty rapidly perhaps, in hideous mud-deluges, their 'markets' and them, unless they think of it??In that case it were better to think of it: and the Democracies and Universal Suffrages, I can observe, will require to modify themselves a good deal!"
mircea_popescu: well yes, but this was before a time people expected the king pick up their apothecary bill.
decimation: so to be clear, it used to be the case that in order for someone to seize "your" money, they had to show up at your house and take your physical coins
mircea_popescu: but that's exactly the concept. my slavegirl might not want to visit you in a room you can lock at your option.
mircea_popescu: and so in this sense, it's not that bitcoin isn't insured in that way. it's moreover that bank deposits etc aren't, and the continuance of the fraudulent pretense to the contrary promulgated by various usg agencies among which the sec above strictly depends on it not being needed.
thestringpuller: what about the sense of car insurance?
mircea_popescu: that type of insurance is typical manufacturer insurance, "that the product be free of defects or replaced"
thestringpuller: only MP has the capital to actually insure anyone...
thestringpuller: how would you even insure bitcoins and who would insure them?
decimation: why would you want to live outside the benevolent "protection" of USG?
decimation: "Not insured. While securities accounts at U.S. brokerage firms are often insured by the Securities Investor Protection Corporation (SIPC) and bank accounts at U.S. banks are often insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), bitcoins held in a digital wallet or Bitcoin exchange currently do not have similar protections."
assbot: Investor Alert: Bitcoin and Other Virtual Currency-Related Investments | Investor.gov
decimation: here's how the SEC put it: http://investor.gov/news-alerts/investor-alerts/investor-alert-bitcoin-other-virtual-currency-related-investments
decimation: yeah you are right ascii, but you do realize that nearly all public and private entities in the US fall into that category
asciilifeform: is ipmi one of those 'may as well hang for a sheep' affairs, where folks use intel cpu, etc and know they're already owned anyway
decimation: interestingly, old dell RAC cards had a feature where you could actually "view" the monitor over ssh
asciilifeform: the high-end kvm have power relays
asciilifeform: i never understood the popularity of the crud. an ip-kvm is what, a few hundy? why attach proprietary strange to your front bus?
decimation: I'm glad I didn't in retrospect - was gonna buy a supermicro - before, I could pretend it was secure, now we know otherwise
asciilifeform: who the hell has impi on a 'human' box ?
decimation: well, impi, remote access, all the same kind of thing
mircea_popescu: to be a modest chap, the logs kinda exist because i had this irresponsible attitude where i'd only log while awake, and so things got lost.
mircea_popescu: in other words, two mice disagreed once on how to split a chunk of cheese they had found. so the cat ate the cheese, and the mice.
mircea_popescu: decimation no no, "we should tax everything and put the money into '''research'''"
mircea_popescu: would you rather have soot or shit ?
decimation: one can simultaneously believe global warming is a scam and also consider the coal plant down the street to be ruinous
mircea_popescu: benkay problem is that approach contradicts the "world peace" approach. not burn anytihng at hand but clothe and feed anyone at hand ?
mthreat: mircea_popescu: ok once I get Azelphur's, i'll turn them all into a mysql dump and send it to kakobrekla. Then once kako gets them on log.b-a, i'll just crawl-backfill.
benkay: i've always thought it a rather bad idea to be burning everything at hand, just on the principle that i don't want to be breathing crap all the time.
decimation: the Patagonian cliffs care not for word-smithing and spinning
mircea_popescu: "lo and behold, we should be affraid that democracy is now in peril of falling out of the box and revoting cape horn"
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many of the inept scientists of today realise just how amusing their global warming pretenses are
decimation: Thomas Carlyle on the wisdom of crowds: "Your ship cannot double Cape Horn by its excellent plans of voting. The ship may vote this and that, above decks and below, in the most harmonious exquisitely constitutional manner: the ship, to get round Cape Horn, will find a set of conditions already voted for, and fixed with adamantine rigour by the ancient Elemental Powers, who are entirely careless how you vote." http://books.google.com/
mircea_popescu: such are the blessings of closed society : that art may flourish. democracy and social mobility allows for no such thing.
mircea_popescu: consequently the producers were forced to iterate a lot and fail fast
mircea_popescu: turns out, it's that they were all produced for a small audience of the same people.
mircea_popescu: (and the same holds for opera)
mircea_popescu: here's an interesting if unrelated point : what characteristic of classical english theatre, cca 1600s, was shared by both classical french and italian, but not ever since ? so that 99.x% of all good plays, all good actors and all good performances have this one thing in common, that's not been seen again ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ship them to him ?
mircea_popescu: ideally this should be done once and cover the whole shjebang
mircea_popescu: up to the point where he rebuffs roper you may entertain the notion more is a whole man. but after he admits he will grant the other's safety for his own safety's sake you know he's not.
mthreat: kakobrekla: I'll be parsing the log file asciilifeform provided, so I can put it in whatever format, or you can just take the irc log file and parse it on your end.
mircea_popescu: decimation nah, the climax was when he shows himself an eunuch
benkay: that's when he discloses it. it's clear he's had the opinion for a long time.
mircea_popescu: ie, once they get that schmuck to lie under oath and convict him of treason
mircea_popescu: loyal subjects can not distinguish the situation where the sovereign is a dumbass from the situation where evil people are prevailing with their treason and schemes.
benkay: it boils down to he who may destroy is the sovereign?
mircea_popescu: there's very little difference between feudalism and escrow
mircea_popescu: the situation where the sovereign is a dumbass can not be distinguished from the situation where evil people are prevailing with their treason and schemes upon the monarch by loyal subjects
decimation: benkay: is that quote from the play?
mircea_popescu: a sovereign can not be demonstrably immoral tho is the problem
mircea_popescu: yes well. more is a loyal subject of the king.
benkay: i've only seen the movie.
benkay: unequivocal: the 98% are almost perfectly good, while the 2% are almost perfectly evil. After all, the 98% are nice to almost everyone, while the 2% are mean to those who are nice to almost everyone, and nice only to a tiny minority who are mean to almost everyone. Of course, for much of human history, this is precisely how morality worked, in many people’s minds. But I dare say it’s a result that would make moderns uncomfortable."
benkay: "Imagine, for instance, that 98% of the players are unfailingly nice to each other, but unfailingly cruel to the remaining 2% (who they can recognize, let’s say, by their long noses or darker skin—some trivial feature like that). Meanwhile, the put-upon 2% return the favor by being nice to each other and mean to the 98%. Who, in this scenario, is moral, and who’s immoral? The mathematical verdict of both eigenmoses and eigenjesus is
mircea_popescu: you are not humble and therefore can not be given a ton of power.
mthreat: if he does that, i'll just have to recrawl to make the links work
mthreat: kako may choose to renumber the ids (used for the <a href> anchors) since he'll be backfilling prior to his current "epoch" day
benkay: this eigenmoses and eigenjesus stuff is interesting in that sir thomas moore follows the eigenjesus strategy
mthreat: once Iset up the cron, yeah something like that :) Maybe twice a day, whatever.
mthreat: <mircea_popescu> btw mthreat wouldja be interested in filling in the logs for the first missing year, and generate a drop-in blob kakobrekla can put into his log thing too ? << I got asciilifeform's ba-turd file. But I'm not sure what format kako wants. search.b-a gets all of its info from log.b-a by crawling, since I link to it in the search results.
mircea_popescu: ha! now this may be a good formalisation of the vc problem. birdy whispers in my ear : "all those guys trying for financial dominance without intellectual dominance ? ya, that'll work..."
mircea_popescu: i just get the arguments
benkay: log challenge doesn't grow less with the ability to parse it quickly - now all the time saved reading quickly and ignoring the noise goes into reading the things herein linked.
benkay: If such there be, yet grant me this at least: [220]
asciilifeform: it's a scam of the desperation/starvation variety. armies of folks conned into burning their lives for 'degree' want to eat.
mircea_popescu: same article above, with the bad model for evaluating bots.
mircea_popescu: how're enjoyin' the logs mr vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: i'm not a professor because i find fucking and beating a few selected girls at a time a lot more effectual than merely speaking to an entire gaggle, who also cling to naive misrepresentations as of their "rights" and "freedoms".
asciilifeform: that many of the titles bear a striking resemblance to each other. "Adaptive Mesh Analysis" reads one and "An Adaptive Algorithm for Mesh Analysis" reads another. Dividing the total remaining by the average number of repetitions halves the list again. Mozart disappears before your very eyes.'
asciilifeform: of these epics. First, the author rarely appears alone, sharing space with two or three others. Often the collaborators are Ph.D. students who are routinely doing most of the spade work on some low grant in the hope of climbing the greasy pole. Dividing the number of titles by the author's actual contribution probably reduces those hundred papers to twenty-five. Then looking at the titles themselves, you'll see
asciilifeform: 'You can routinely find lecturers with more than a hundred published papers and you marvel at these paradigms of human creativity. These are people, you think, who are fit to challenge Mozart who wrote a hundred pieces or more of music. And then you get puzzled that, in this modern world, there should be so many Mozarts - almost one for every department. The more prosaic truth emerges when you scan the titles
mircea_popescu: (for the esl folk, a flap is an affectionate term for a prepubescent prostitute, also used for uppity, vivacious girls in general, as a testament to the traditional positive social view on tween prostitution)
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if being a scientist consisted entirely of beating the cheap boarding houses and asylums to select out of the pox ridden old hags "the paragons of beauty"
asciilifeform: the gods of spam - always win
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the part i find the lulziest about these recent academic papers on google page rank is just how utterly broken it is in the field, defeated by hundreds if not thousands of different approaches implemented by scores more different agencies.
mircea_popescu: probably publishable as a paper if you can be bothered to run in that threadmill
mircea_popescu: (which approach probably would improve the original paper a lot too, just re-do it but not counting totals, merely counting cases of backstabbing)
mircea_popescu: punkman also, the bs "nice" has to be thrown out, it's meaningless. just count who starts wars.
asciilifeform: the laland tourney is considerably more interesting imho
mircea_popescu: which is, if this switch can either kill me or kill the world, throwing it is even odds.
mircea_popescu: and by what's missing, i mean ego. the bots must consider themselves equally important to the whole world.
gribble: Social Learning Strategies Tournament - The Laland Lab: <http://lalandlab.st-andrews.ac.uk/tournaments/tournament1/sociallearning.html>; Social Learning Strategies Tournament II - The Laland Lab: <http://lalandlab.st-andrews.ac.uk/tournaments/tournament2/Social_Learning_Strategies_Tournament_II_Rules.pdf>; Social Learning Strategies Tournament | Facebook: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: by crap i mean, i suspect the academic used WAY TO FEW bots. use 100s of each type, and do millions of rounds, for goof statistics. similar things.
mircea_popescu: punkman i would be very interested to see what happens if someone were to take the guy;'s idea, clean all the crap off it, and then add what's missing.
mircea_popescu: and so you can't have any sort of "conservative morality" predicated on anything in the set of ("women not being sluts", "god fearing", "wealth and power by age rather than with and connection")
mircea_popescu: i know for one i would never marry in other way than through making some old fart pay for it thus, were i living in 1814
mircea_popescu: and in principle, to make the point whole, for all those who wish the "good old days" were to return : they can not. they have been defeated in the field, through being weak to such things.
asciilifeform: the thief may or may not have 'insider' tip on who just ordered new laptop, gold bar, etc
mircea_popescu: and pick the girl up himself.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, this scam has a history older than steam. entreprising young american fellows used to canvass old world ads for girls looking to marry, then forward the details to old rich american to pay for thepassage
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: ;;later tell bitcoinpete <bitcoinpete> at the club i ran into some classmates from highschool. the looks on their faces were pretty golden // whence the startle?
mircea_popescu: which is a degenerate form taken by sybil attack in the degenerate wot that escrow is
mircea_popescu: dignork even if you take the banks out of it, the escrow model is still weak to distributed identity attacks
benkay: <mircea_popescu> sort-of like the teenage slut born to wealth that skips a lot of school, and gets herself knocked up. not only is she getting some candy to "compensate" her for the abortion, but she also gets to blame her cocaine habit on the bad boy that "seduced" her. // my favorite is the one who gets her own condo and a photo studio to play with and raise her kid in
asciilifeform: e.g. bank doesn't eat the loss from fraud
mircea_popescu: that's the most you get here, a sort of up and down and all around maybe.
dignork: then x won't be able to open a trading account with duplicate details
mircea_popescu: and fuck you for being mean and dispariging them
mircea_popescu: and they think this is fine and "a community"
mircea_popescu: yes, they have to be clinically brain injured, as you say. guess what ? they fucking are
mircea_popescu: now how many "escrows" on the "market" have the sense to include a "Issued for use of X" thus defeating this mitm ?
benkay: <ThickAsThieves> perfect contender for a bitcoin jesushood then // bitcoin crucifixion
dignork: well, so e would be able to fight it in court, but e doesn't want to get into court in the first place, so yeah, it has some merits
mircea_popescu: thus creating a one million btc headache for me and everyone else seriously comitted to making btc the end of western style government.
mircea_popescu: think of it, this is a space where fucktarded "community members" aptly represented by the "bitcoin foundation" and well catered for by the power rangers a) gave half a million btc to trendon shavers and then b) gave half a million btc to silk road
mircea_popescu: both are true to sufficient degree for the practical needs of the swindle in question.
dignork: x will have to show his escrow balance, otherwise d won't pay
mircea_popescu: rather than vice-versa.
mircea_popescu: you (D) want to buy LTC. Seller (S) and scammer (X) and escrow (E) are the other players.
dignork: ThickAsThieves: the guy obviously doesn't know that LBC trades are going through escrow, so he can only damage some ratings. That is, unless buyers are clinical idiots, and release funds first.
mircea_popescu: punkman1 what are you doing these days ?
mircea_popescu: to everyone other than you?). << dpends if you're aiming to lead or to follow.
mircea_popescu: Even though the measures acquit themselves well in this particular tournament, its admittedly easy to construct scenarios where the prescriptions of eigenjesus and eigenmoses alike violently diverge from most peoples moral intuitions. Weve already touched on a few such scenarios above (for example, are you really morally obligated to lick the boots of someone who kicks you, just because that person is a saint
thestringpuller: lol everytime MPOE goes below 800000 there is a buying frenzy
ThickAsThieves: <+BingoBoingo> ThickAsThieves: You sure do use the disclaimers /// pretty pro, huh?
mircea_popescu: the model needs ego.
mircea_popescu: "So for example, even if someone is unfailingly nice to you, if that person is an asshole to everyone else, then the eigenmoses moral code would demand that you return the persons cooperation with icy defection."
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: You sure do use the disclaimers