ThickAsThieves: the comments are even worse
mircea_popescu: troll in english taken as is by romanian (because romanian considers all languages merely badly spoken, more retarded cases of using romanian) and then flexion applied
BingoBoingo: Has CNET ever been useful for anything other than discovering which flip phone can maintain contact with a tower?
ThickAsThieves: sucks that she;s the first CEO that was ever late to a function
mircea_popescu: <pankkake> indeed apparently, the less a manufacturer advertises the more it delivers <<< not just in mining.
ThickAsThieves: <+bloctoc> I haven't seen anyone boasting about how much money their ATM is making. /// I've seen some data from Robocoin users that do quite well - paid off their machines in 1-3mos
ThickAsThieves: <+moiety> i withdrew via wire transfer. its £91 short /// I've heard some places are taking taxes out automatically without saying so, is the 91 equivalent to some income tax rate or such?
assbot: The scary thing, I more inclined to believe this than the louder mining manufacterers are getting their acts together http://t.co/rjLcP6YjPO
mircea_popescu: yeah the woman sounds like she's had a lot of fun in her youth.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: haha, i ment the content. just uploaded it
mircea_popescu: anyway, what's next. real estate shock and possibly another currency
mircea_popescu: bitrisk! the game of international intrigue
BingoBoingo: Well, Argentina buys some F.MPIF and backs their currency with that
pankkake: right; so my question here was more rhetorical: what next, since they won't be able to borrow anytime soon?
mircea_popescu: pankkake well that's the joke lol
pankkake: what's the difference?
mircea_popescu: lol the butthurt of the world financial system @ argentina is palpable. order a payment to argentine anything ? "risk flagged transaction". why ? o, well... because we dun want argentina to has moneyz. won't you reconsider ?
pankkake: the two loans I know of, on BitFunder, defaulted
punkman: but they are all profitable in lols
pankkake: they just like shit too much
pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=665403.0 no one even mentions the only profitable investment on Havelock
pankkake: what's the required IQ?
pankkake: perhaps it is the bullshit story
Vallance: Okay so planefinder.net is telling me there are 4786 planes in the air and UpDown.bt is telling me 6318
pankkake: " In case of lag from blockchain.info timestamp, we will use the timestamp from our own client. We will always check for the earliest possible timestamp we can get to ensure you have the smoothest experience possible. "
pankkake: " We use the time of the transaction from http://blockchain.info/ to determine the exact second where the option was created, and then we use the list of mtgox transactions that is available via the http://Bitcoincharts.com/ mtgox historic API to determine both the opening price and the closing price of the option. "
Vallance: They also made themselves a target to be slaughtered by the media because of their scandals
Vallance: The TBF hasn't even done anything positive for Bitcoin, all they have done is promote companies that end up ripping people off.
punkman: can't believe no one cares to put this in their FAQ
BingoBoingo: Vallance: Are you or your business in the foundation?
pankkake: they're in my non-bitcoin web of trust
Vallance: They were very open about that.
Vallance: but what gets me is that they don't even show where they are getting their data from, or will they disclose it
Vallance: Yeah but they don't publish their feeds and now it doesn't even seem like they are paying out immediately (that's something I don't understand with automated services and Bitcoin)
Vallance: I seen a few accusations fly around at Bitcointalk.org, I've been following their business seeing how it goes since they came out
Vallance: Credit Unions are the ideal people to bank with but unfortunately my preferred one around here isn't a part of the CU Swirl Network
Vallance: The only real problem as far as moving money has went has been with Chase Bank, they're horrible.
Naphex: everyone just attacks the person who moves the money, so might as well just do your own AML/KYC
Naphex: one of the problems with 3rd party validation, is who would get goverment wrath. I doubt they'd be going after the validation service instead of the exchange
Vallance: I just want to know if the money you're sending is good, that's all I would like to know but then the government and state have to get involved.
Vallance: It's honestly one of the things that I'm most torn about. In all reality I want to know as least as possible.
Vallance: I had someone contact me a couple months ago about KYC/AML Identification services. They may have been a new company, can't clearly remember. They are supposed to streamline and handle all your compliance requirements for you when interacting with customers on exchanging funds.
BingoBoingo: punkman: Vending machines are still a think. Probably the best way for a vending machine operator to get bitcoin from vending machines is... Exchanging the cash directly.
punkman: BingoBoingo: I suppose they won't care so much about dogecoins
punkman: you aren't even gonna make it to the gasenwagen
Vallance: Even if the child survives what about the loud deafening bang and flash that happened right over top of him
pankkake: so they moved up from dogs. great.
Vallance: In the works of trying to negotiate a deal with Western Union that would allow people to send us payments through their service as a "Bill Payment" so they would only have to pay $5
Vallance: That is where we make our margins, it isn't that much to them.
BingoBoingo: I'd consider the 6-8 hour drive if I had fiat to dispose of.
Vallance: What blows my mind is the type of people we've encountered that is involved in Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: Well, the midwest and mid south are underserved.
BingoBoingo: Also, since money transmitting across the whole US is a pain, just license in kentucky, a few neighboring states, and the rest of the US can be serviced by other people.
Vallance: That's the goal Bingo.
Vallance: If it was up to me then I would've moved to Panama, but my wife wasn't having it.
BingoBoingo: If you were to offer a network of atms across a region, maintain an office for inperson service, and have some limited interaction with the web you could carve a nice niche.
Vallance: I know, it's really insane at how hard it is to move money around the USA.
BingoBoingo: Vallance: P2P trading is probably where the better margins are.
Vallance: We're really trying to re-work our current system and way of handling things first and foremost. We started with the p2p trading and the problem is we're still operating in that fashion. People enjoy the broker-client relationship but it just doesn't scale that well.
punkman: you are authed
Vallance: You would be surprised at the old, nearly looking homeless people who have sold us a handful of Bitcoin though
BingoBoingo: So... What's the procedure if I just drive in with a shoebox full of cash?
Vallance: The people who run our ATMs (or could even be theirs) would just need to handle cashing out the machine and maintenance
Vallance: Yes, that's the plan.
pankkake: well mastercoin is made by people who don't know what they are doing, counterparty is in a slighly better position
punkman: they only have problems
BingoBoingo: Both platforms can have their problems.
Vallance: I've had a lot of chats with the founders of Counterparty and Counterwallet, I feel pretty good about their platform.
punkman: you don't want to use Counterparty either
bloctoc: $10,000 through an ATM? or is that on the internet?
BingoBoingo: Vallance: Honestly I'd kill the Invest page now
Vallance: Also the ATMs would help lower the costs of transaction fees that people are facing by using Western Union & MoneyGram
Vallance: I believe the ATMs will build good infrastructure for Bitcoin and associate it with new people
bloctoc: I haven't seen anyone boasting about how much money their ATM is making.
punkman: most people start with the CSS
Vallance: The truth is we started out just as anyone would with Bitcoin trading I suppose
Vallance: Yeah, that's why we have the brakes on.
BingoBoingo: Vallance: A physical location in the US and an investment solicitation... seems dangerous...
Vallance: Well, the vision I have in mind is to form somewhat of a decentralized liquidity network that anyone could become a part of either through a stake in the liquidity or operating an ATM.
bloctoc: I heard today from reliable sources that gas stations don't want a phone that close to their pumps. needs to be bluetooth.
Duffer1: what happens when paypal enters the room and says "thanks for warming my seat."
punkman: no that's not the problem
Vallance: It's just the problem with juggling the legalities and how things would "technically" work.
Vallance: Although I do believe there are large sums of people who could benefit from Bitcoin in the area
BingoBoingo: Ah, Ashland is in the inconvenient part of Kentucky
Vallance: I have no idea how it's working out for them though.
Vallance: They've been around for a little bit, the main thing about them is that they accept credit cards and debit cards.
Vallance: Myself and a couple others run a small Bitcoin exchange known as BitSpot. It's not an exchange as in the sense of BitStamp or BTC-E, it's more in the sense of CoinMama or the former BitInstant
Vallance: It's becoming increasingly more difficult to find a place to have an intelligent conversation about Bitcoin in public on the internet.
Vallance: Well, just trying to become more pro-active about using the WoT and I follow MPOE quite a bit and enjoy the opinions this channel shares.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Vallance!~Admin@209.222.5.229. Trust relationship from user BingoBoingo to user Vallance: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=BingoBoingo&dest=Vallance | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Vallance | Rated since: never
davout: Vexual: "and yes, they are provided open, because you are not an otter" <<< men open their oysters
moiety: i cant find anything else like this on them at all
punkman: maybe there's an extra moiety fee
punkman: moiety, one of these days btc-e will disappear, don't be a bagholder
Vexual: whats the problem?
BingoBoingo: What, I'm hairy and spend a lot of time in the water
Vexual: and yes, they are provided open, because you are not an otter
davout: "in australia we call what you know as salmon ocean trout" <<< i saw already opened oysters being sold there Oo
Vexual: can't evenm tut at the devs
BingoBoingo: What, was the sidewalk to narrow for this bbw?
dub: just about got my cholesterol bled out on the way home
benkay: o wait i read that in the log!
Vexual: and it'll slap you in the face its so good
mircea_popescu: <dub> its not oily if you bleed it << he's found the cure for colesterol.
cazalla: i mean, you can get it at the fish market for 2.99 a kg that's how bad it is
cazalla: Vexual: depends on time of year and where I am, I don't do much fishing down here in Melbourne, more so when I go up Sydney with my brother/father
dub: cazalla: if aussie salmon is what I think it is then you are probably fucking it up
cazalla: get some leather jacket too
mircea_popescu: if you figure your odds are 2:5 put 2 btc on the short odds then put .8 on the long odds and there you go.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: The site profits off total volume, not someone forking over a risky bet on one side << nobody prevents you from covering the short end after bet is approved.
cazalla: Vexual: i always throw them back
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: Example was. If Bitpay is worth 1Billion usd, FB forks over 1 Billion USD, FB valuation stays same << this is an example out of the "spherical chicken in vacuum" variety.
mircea_popescu: bloctoc: they would have to be sold at a later date since there are no buy orders yet. << actually that 25 was a buy order iirc
mircea_popescu: moiety: i was marooned on the sofa for some time due to a rather fast large spider travelling around my livingroom floor <<< ahahaha so cute
Vexual: cazalla, remember these people probabl;y get real atlantic salmon too
moiety: they left the scales on haddock once in a restaurant i as at. i don't know if it was a mistake or that happens anywhere in the world but just.. no.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
cazalla: skin is the best bit
mircea_popescu: o look at all the logs
benkay imagines thepyruvatebay.se
benkay: so how much did the rabbit go for?
Vexual: I'll have the Lapin Braisé
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cazalla: supposedly, i've never had or made it before, i've been keeping livers frozen as it didn't seem worthwhile to make a small amount and i butcher them as needed so it's not like i have a lot of livers at once
Vexual: he rolled up to parliment in his vintage silver shadow a few weeks back, van morrison blasting, hopped out and gave a speech to the waiting press about how politicians should pay for their own cars
cazalla: you would've loved dinner last night, crumbed rabbit, pan fried for 5 and then into oven for 30m
Vexual: well there are no details
Vexual: he flew gore in to stand next to him at a press conference and give the nod to repealing the carbon tax with a view to setting up interational emmissions trading
Vexual: it might make it harder to bet not chinese on the ladies tennis
benkay: i guess yours then as well
benkay: there's always tab-complete, Mats_cd03
gribble: The operation succeeded.
TheNewDeal: Also, why is it said that BitBet "fronts" .1 BTC on the bet? I thought they split .1 BTC, some portion going to the original bettor, and the other portion is a wager that will pay the site
TheNewDeal: The site profits off total volume, not someone forking over a risky bet on one side
TheNewDeal: Per the world cup article http://trilema.com/2014/the-results-of-the-world-cup-experiment/ . I think BitBet should allow zeroconf bets simultaneously on Yes and No, especially if they move to requiring a 2 BTC minimum.
bloctoc: you had me until "FB Stock is volatile". Meanwhile I understand the concept of hedging, I just didn't realize when I asked the question that there was such a thing as F.DERP
benkay: for a second i was hoping to learn something there :D
TheNewDeal: in reality, FB stock is volatile, could potentially have a large shift in the 30 day period
TheNewDeal: but the gist is this
benkay: what's strange about it, TheNewDeal ?
TheNewDeal: F.Derp was made to short the basket of derps
TheNewDeal: against the group of derps
Mats_cd03: on the subject of bets, write a proper proposition and that can be your hedge.
TheNewDeal: F.DERP is the hedge
benkay: D.BPAY is a hedge against the fartup cirkus producing something with market value in the next year or w/e
benkay: D.BPAY or the actual shares?
mike_c: those are the shares mp is offering for sale
bloctoc: the detail page has 900 shares, the overview has 100 shares if I'm reading it right, then something's amis
TheNewDeal: I think it's slightly absurd because the whole F.Derp is just in its beginning stages
bloctoc: has anyone discussed how they decided to purchase 200BTC worth of BPAY?
moiety: i was marooned on the sofa for some time due to a rather fast large spider travelling around my livingroom floor
moiety: ya, i am so glad they cleared that one up
assbot: New creationist museum explains how Noah managed to fit dinosaurs on the ark - Weird News - News - The Independent
moiety: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird-news/new-creationist-museum-explains-how-noah-managed-to-fit-dinosaurs-on-the-ark-9552108.html
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> get out. they gotta be physically there too, it's not worth it /// until someone makes some AirbndUberApp that makes doublespending a crowdgoal or whatever
Naphex: i wouldn't care much even if 2nd key got compromised, since the raw pre-signed transaction delivered is already composed
Naphex: and the raw transaction is read only :P
Naphex: dunno why the hell
Naphex: only the outcast one which looked to only work with its own privkeys
dignork: actually they - shesek, you can talk to him
dignork: Naphex: you can show them full json on site/send by email w/e
Naphex: then with current bitcoin-cli multisig
Naphex: davout: yep, but you need to make a json array with the redeemScript, inputs and script-pubkey
davout: Naphex: maybe an idea would be for them to simply use the qt built-in console rather than a full-fledged terminal?
davout: Naphex: you apparently haven't learned the "don't give people bitcoins if they ain't educated enough to handle them themselves" lesson heh?
davout: mthreat: so you know as much as i do ;) i'll put you in touch with the guy that did it if you want to implement sthg on your side
gribble: The operation succeeded.
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell mircea_popescu which trilema article featured this dood ? seem to recall seeing mr. wonderful there at some point http://www.businessinsider.com/chen-guangbiao-lunch-cash-giveaway-2014-6
Naphex: the yeah i know sx, but needed something to give to a noob. who won;t be able to command line it:P
davout: mthreat: have you read the paper from adi shamir and dorit ron?
mthreat: davout: nothing specific.. just seems like there could be some interesting stuff, watching the flow of coins
davout: TheNewDeal: if you give some low value thing in exchange for a zero-conf tx, you might find it useful to immediately get the information that someone is attempting a double spend, rather than having the info cock-blocked
davout: TheNewDeal: i think what you're referring to is nodes banning some of their peers, you don't really ban nodes from the network
bitcoinpete: on the bitbettery: http://trilema.com/2014/the-results-of-the-world-cup-experiment/#comment-101741 nao with fickst avatar!
mthreat: anyone loaded the blockchain into a graph database like neo4j? google released another graph database today, https://github.com/google/cayley
TheNewDeal: isn't there something about nodes being banned for like 24 hours for bad behavior?
davout: TheNewDeal: you don't double spend a transaction, you double spend an output, but other than that, nothing really until one of them gets into a mined block, more information can't really hurt
davout: mircea_popescu: thinking about it, i'm usually not very fond of arguments that nodes should behave a particular way, simply interested in the case against transparently relaying all legal txes, even if they are double spends
davout: mircea_popescu: "it was argued this isn't so smart." <<< i'd be interested in reading the argument
mircea_popescu: they have no incentive (perhaps the best candidate for a satoshi oversight is not putting any incentive for tx relay at all) to behave properly and a lot of different types of misbehaviours necessarily include themn
mircea_popescu: anyway, node behaviour is going to be the major topic of 2015 i suspect.
mircea_popescu: seeing how blacklisting is still a thing, consensus kinda favoured current behaviour for good game theoretic reasons
davout: pankkake mircea_popescu i tend to think it's better to transparently relay both txes, so that they're much easier to detect if you care about them
mircea_popescu: but they don't make that much difference
mircea_popescu: davout type 1 (pick one tx, relay that) "poisons" the nodes that got the dblspend. type 2 (relay all) doesn't.
pankkake: iirc the payment protocol (I know, right) can make propagating the transaction the responsibility of the merchant
mike_c: the double spend had to do with making the SD tx ugly (lots of inputs), and double-spending with a fee. SD just started using fees and problem went away iirc.
moiety: davout: I can't find any screens of it. here's the logo https://bitcointa.lk/data/avatars/m/78/78316.jpg?1393513983 Bitcoin Socially it was called.
TheNewDeal: can I get a linky to their solution?
pankkake: davout: I've read some interesting debates but I don't remember them
mike_c: this was explored exhaustively with satoshi dice. some serious gymnastics pulled it off with trivial amounts, and SD then reacted and closed that loophole as well.
davout: am i the only one to think it's actually stupid to not relay double spends ?
TheNewDeal: more concerned about the laundry :D
TheNewDeal: just use the doublespend feature
pankkake: nodes shouldn't propagate the doublespent tx if they have the first, but of course it's not 100% reliable
mircea_popescu: 1 confirm (as opposed to 0 confirms) helps if they try to isolate you in the convey txn graph
mircea_popescu: 6 confirms (as opposed to 1 confirm) only matters if they are actively mining and attacking the chain
TheNewDeal: doesnt propagation take on the scale of minutes?
TheNewDeal: ok what happens if I have a laundromat and the washer accept bitcoin. Someone finds out they can just come and get two loads for the price of 1, dry 2 loads for the price of 1, etc
mircea_popescu: you got a better deal with this than with them putting in us quarters anyway.
pankkake: do you think they will double spend to buy cheap food? in a physical location?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal at the size of your purchase you can prollylet them go on one confirm. who's gonna dblspend for a can of coke
TheNewDeal: ok I have a stupid question. What happens if I have two vending machines that sit side by side and both accept bitcoin. Will people have to wait for 6 confirmations to receive goods, or is there some other way to receive their bitcoin safely?
mircea_popescu: pankkake can you believe the braindamage ?
mircea_popescu: somethign weird going on with overlays in there
mircea_popescu: on reading http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/f-derp-short-risky-bitcoin-startups/2014/06/25 towards where it says "the log of the original discussion", am i the only one for whom that link comes as some sort of doge thing rather than a log linkj ?
pankkake: or is it only funding nodes ran by the same guy (but decentralization!)
moiety: davout, it was exactly the same as facebook but orange and had bitcoin symbols everywhere. i think it failed so badly, theytried to sell it and couldn't even pan it off
moiety: do yous remember the failed attampt at a bitcoin facebook?
mircea_popescu: :p remember kitten, one of the first things i said to you was wtf you doing with the doge
bitcoinpete: 2010 seemed to be the coming out party
mircea_popescu: roughly speaking the year twitter peaked.
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