mjr_: which the miners faithfully run
mjr_: because they have been letting gavin make tons of changes
mircea_popescu: tough for them.
xmj: again i want to mention the NSA => satoshi article
mjr_: but also, someone who can't actually use the network for what i want
mjr_: in other words, a change
mircea_popescu: and if one day they include a weather service in some client, that'll be about as much change.
mircea_popescu: you have an option to do whatever the fuck it is you want to do at all junctures anyway.
mircea_popescu: so, yeah. the market may decide anything it wants for just as long as it stays strictly within what i find paltable. that';s how this thing works.
mjr_: if the market thinks that is a good idea :)
mircea_popescu: "the market" doesn't decide jack shit. if "the market" decides things, we might as well make coinbase the new fed and welcome wall street on their own terms.
mjr_: the market decides what features are in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: so go talk to them :)
mjr_: i do it, i get the money
mjr_: that if i send a multisig tx to someone, they will in return send me 1,000,000 bitcoin
mircea_popescu: so your bitcoin has changed, mine hasn't, there we go.
mjr_: i, perhaps the only one, do not judge bitcoins protocol by what you find valid
mircea_popescu: this is what renders the subjective but unaccepted parts irrelevant.
mjr_: i don't think your tx is anything other than random data
mjr_: i could view all of the blockchain as random
mjr_: you could call all of the data random
mjr_: so either, things that are recorded in a block don't matter
mircea_popescu: reality is not what some derps somewhere feel is the case.
mjr_: you don't have to use them
mjr_: the job that is done has new possibilties
mircea_popescu: all i see is the bricks laid.
mircea_popescu: well so there you go. you wish o matter personally, but i don't give a shit. im your employer not your lover.
mjr_: find my employee, he is the guy laying bricks wearing a hat
mircea_popescu: one day job was "lay bricks with hat", the next" lay bricks without hat" ?
mircea_popescu: the third wioth a hangover
mircea_popescu: the next day without
mircea_popescu: anyway, here's the story : i hire you to lay bricks for me. that's your job.
mjr_: the change that happened?
mjr_: and there was a conflict
mjr_: how could you have a clearer example of the protocol changing
mircea_popescu: and the new version died.
mjr_: for fucks sake, there was a fork in the fucking blockchain because people didn't agree on which version to use
mjr_: and they have
mircea_popescu: not so fast there :)
mjr_: and bitcoin is the miners to change
mjr_: the protocol
mjr_: that changed the protocol of what messages were acceptable to mpex
mjr_: but they are changes
mjr_: they may be misguided or stupid
mircea_popescu: what's logically impossible is to imagine the bitcoin protocol is something that extends all the way to your soup.
mjr_: they may cease to exist
mjr_: so, we can agree, you don't care about the changes, they don't affect you, they are irrelevant
mircea_popescu: aite, go ahead an' change the world.
mjr_: i can run diff on the code and it comes out "no changes"
mircea_popescu: so what if i hexedit the gui and make it pink
mjr_: identical means there is no difference
mjr_: or are we arguing the defintion of identical
mircea_popescu: if math changes and 2 + 3 = 6 instead, then that's a change.
mjr_: and ignore the rest
mjr_: i said that you can use the subset of features
mircea_popescu: the day I AM FORCED TO ACCEPT IT something changed.
assbot: War of Life - Cellular automata to the death!
TheNewDeal: mircea_popescu did http://btc.blockr.io/tx/info/17577cd6133ae129f98be3aefd072d3c0d59d84fe32de02cab9746b970dd8b49 on this game https://btc.waroflife.com/gow/22/activity/ win the double your wager prize?
mjr_: that would be the textbook definition of a change
mjr_: now they accept that
mircea_popescu: suppose some kids decide they will have a cocksucking mining contest.
mjr_: using the blockchain
mjr_: i don't care...yuo said the protocol hadn't changed
mjr_: the rules changed
mircea_popescu: the fact you can make proper payments out of your braindamaged 3whatever also doesnt matter
mjr_: and your personal choice is not the bitcoin network rules
mircea_popescu: mjr_ the day you can withdraw mpex funds to a multisig address i might care.
mjr_: there was a point where you could not do a multisig
mjr_: i'm saying that you can bury your head in the sand, it doesn't mean that reality ceases to exist
xmj: you can't craft a multisig transaction right now that will be accepted by the network valid per bitcoin rules
mircea_popescu: luke is trying to pretend like it is. that matters in the sense luke trying to pretend obama is jesus matters.
mjr_: that will be accepted by the network
mircea_popescu: that won't make the gun aprt of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: same thing with bs "features" that meanwhile got thrown out, same thing with bs features the spyteam has been trying to insert.
mircea_popescu: you may understandably wish to misrepresent it as such. nevertheless... it is not.
mjr_: does it have all the elements that i would look for in a home?
mircea_popescu: if i let you live in my garage because i'm too lazy to kick you out today, that doesn't mean the garage is your home.
mjr_: they clearly did
mjr_: no, they did
mircea_popescu: understand, if some kid somehwere adds a condom to his parent's the tv set, this is exactly meaningless to television.
mjr_: and perhaps they never will
mjr_: you can say that the core features that you find useful have not changed
mircea_popescu: <mjr_> i am saying that the code that is running on some mining machines is not the same code that ran in 2011 <<< this.
mjr_: and there are certain things you CANNOT do anymore which you COULD before
mircea_popescu: there's an entire class of them, occasionally i bitchslap them into the abyss, but whatever.
mircea_popescu: you can translte the miner';s desire to "runn different code" in the flurry of idiotic "revolutionary" nonsense imbeciles like molecular are pushing on the forum.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the english language'd have benefited immensely had it been frozen solid when handed off to the nutty colonists cca 1700.
asciilifeform: because the burden of proof on anybody pushing a 'pheature' to demonstrate that he isn't slipping in a semantic - or syntactic - pwnh0le - is just about impossible to meet.
mjr_: i am saying that the code that is running on some mining machines is not the same code that ran in 2011
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: looks like your login succeeded, i have no idea right this moment why the request timed out. <<bring on the muffins!
mjr_: and you can runn a diff on the code if you want
mjr_: i can refer you to the latest release notes if you like
mjr_: perhaps that point was missed...but basically alts are pointless, because bitcoin can adopt anything they can invent IF it is useful enough to be adopted
mircea_popescu: <mjr_> considering the bitcoin standard gets changed around once every 2 months << i have nfi what you're on about, it's noit changed since 2011.
mjr_: there is no need to launch an alt
pete_dushenski: punkman: "This is great transparency, Vitalik. You're setting the right standards" << a shining beacon of derpitude
mjr_: if the idea behind an alt was so good, the market would have selected it to be included in bitcoin already
mjr_: and they have a way of cutting through bullshit, and that was my only point
mjr_: markets are the most efficient way to get to optimum
mircea_popescu: enter about 50 years of sterile "social studies" on the topic of how a bureaucracy is much better.
mjr_: what are the miners running?
mjr_: the market decides how and when and in what ways bitcoin changes
asciilifeform: not the phoundation turd
mjr_: he can't change things by fiat, the market rules what he does
asciilifeform: that'd be the standard
asciilifeform: bitcoin standard gets changed around once every 2 months << what are the miners running?
mjr_: even though the creator has stated he wants people to move to 3
mjr_: they don't
mjr_: and that right now is based on who makes the most convincing argument
xmj: py3 vs py2 is not academic either
mjr_: the only question is WHICH changes
mjr_: considering the bitcoin standard gets changed around once every 2 months
mjr_: so, if things need to change, they change
xmj: mjr_: yes, well, what do you think the 'd' in btcd and bitcoind stands for?
asciilifeform: we're re-living history, in a way. the sane folks are ever less likely to 'reopen the btcd standard' with every passing day of derp.
asciilifeform: ace that will allow developers to use this language at all, _nothing_ happens. By mounting a constant attack on the standards process, the nutcases who are never going to be happy with the language, anyway, ensure that their negative attitude keeps everyone else from being happy and becoming happier, too.'
asciilifeform: raid that if they open up for any change at all, the destructive forces will win and the language they love will be destroyed by the hatemongers and destroyers who seek only their own personal revenge over feature wars lost. And that is precisely the case with Common Lisp. Strong negative forces want to reverse several decisions and threaten to destabilize the language, so in order to maintain the necessary pe
asciilifeform: '...people who hate parts of the language, some of the people who created it, or some of the process that created it, who hold personal grudges they cannot let go of, or who think the best way to "improve" the language is to stay in the community and spread negativity and tear down everybody else's enthusiasm, do just that. No improvement at all will take place when such negativity rules because everybody is af
nubbins`: it's all for the prescient
asciilifeform: IF the community who uses bitcoin pretty much unanimously like your idea it would make it into bitcoin << increasingly less likely with every idiot-alt.
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: isn't it all for the children?
assbot: Jerry the Bear Using Bitcoin to Help Children With Type 1 Diabetes Bitcoin Magazine
mjr_: so, the heteroculture of bitcoin can act as a deterrent to any one group being able to dictate
mjr_: there are more than 1 implementation
mircea_popescu: somehow ever since good old productive labour became something for niggers and mexicans, the ontological hope of all usians is inextricably tied to "ideas" and "Creativity" and "being famous" etc.
mjr_: IF the idea was good, you wouldn't need to launch an alt
mjr_: so the only rationale is that "the idea isn't good", or "i don't want to give away the idea without scamming people for money and boosting my ego"
mircea_popescu: mjr_ there's very little ideas to be had and very many people who like to tell themselves htey have ideas.
xmj: LitecoinSchadenf: they'll predictably bash ANY non-gold{,silver} currency.
mjr_: what i meant is that IF the community who uses bitcoin pretty much unanimously like your idea
godovo: mircea_popescu: I bet they want "guarantees" or escrow
asciilifeform: good for the scammer.
asciilifeform: see 'demurrage' and the like
mjr_: i want to either get puts, sell futures, or borrow and sell
asciilifeform: mjr_: '... your idea is good, it will prob be added into bitcoin' << there is a set of ideas that are only 'good', from the point of view of their proponents, if other people are (made to) use them.
mircea_popescu: but inasmuch as the market for them is exactly 0... there's no way to short. nor do they have any \value
godovo: mircea_popescu: btw, any takers on the eth "deal"?
mjr_: nubbins`: thanks for the tip
mircea_popescu: otherwise one could short them either as futures (like i am trying to shoirt eth/doge)
mjr_: You can't short the alts, because there is no trustworthy lender, because they are all scams...
mjr_: mircea_popescu: I meant you can short almost all stocks today, you couldn't in the 90's tech bubble.
pete_dushenski: godovo: afaik it was useful, if not profitable, the former quality being a first in the history of altcoins
mircea_popescu: no you can't. im talking of the hyip crap. where do you think all these forum-ceos are coming from ?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: there's a point
asciilifeform loves the presumed-winblows that always pops up in random n0obs' comments
mircea_popescu: point in case, the eth launch
mircea_popescu: mjr_ nah that's not it at all. it's much more like the online scam "industry", ie, 90% of volume is self-trading.
gribble: Introducing F.DERP pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014/introducing-fderp/>; Further derps - Trilema: <http://trilema.com/2014/further-derps-dbstp-dcbse-dcifi-dokco-dxapo/>; F.DERP pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/fderp/>
pete_dushenski: can't remember the name now
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: there was that one that tested out how btc would behave when all new coins were mined.
mjr_: ok, i reread the FAQ, where are DERPS explained (i get it obviously, its stupid businesses, hence the name DERP)
LitecoinSchadenf: what's your issue with the MIses Circle/Nakamoto Institute?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I believe The20YearIRCloud called you old
mjr_: not because it is obviously a scam, but because they didn't even try to disguise it
nubbins`: guess that means the death wasn't a homicide
nubbins`: so after ~40 hours the cop guard outside next door moved along
BingoBoingo: !up The20YearIRCloud
cazalla: LitecoinSchadenf, it's just the start too :P
mjr_: Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
mjr_: i'm out of the loop as usual, so figured i would check here
LitecoinSchadenf: LTC/Doge in the tank - so happy
nubbins`: who in the fuck would buy actual clinky coins? collectors
nubbins`: tbf i phrased improperly earlier, i meant who in the fuck would buy btc
mircea_popescu: here's a newsflash : YOU BOUGHT THEM
mircea_popescu: i'd rather sell people dicks to suck.
cazalla: i'd rather suck dicks than sell tbh
mircea_popescu: what, nobody bought, you just sold ? what are you, the us fed ?
nubbins`: selling is the new buying
nubbins`: who in the fuck would buy coins
godovo: not when you're buying coin with all the cash you have
nubbins`: oh dammit i forgot about the bread
mircea_popescu: that way, the people whoi can afford to pay, and the people who can't aren't hussled. best of both worlds.
mircea_popescu: moreover, the idea isn't to make it impossible for people to read for free. the idea is to make it not cost effective.
mircea_popescu: godovo http://trilema.com/2014/awstats-and-stuff/ << 1mnish pages/month means even if they optimally use tor, it's still a tiny %.
mircea_popescu: why would i blacklist them ? let people have fun.
godovo: mircea_popescu: why not blacklist them all?
gribble: LAGWAGON - Mr. Coffee - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiH_zqI9cX0>; Mr. Coffee by Lagwagon on Spotify: <http://open.spotify.com/track/1f2YbWb6yvRemratzSFQGm>; Lagwagon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagwagon>
godovo: mircea_popescu: there are plenty of nodes
nubbins`: who in the fuck is gonna trade with someone who has a ` and a -
mircea_popescu: it's the trilema credits address.
mircea_popescu: no, the crazies dun wanna pay.
BigBitz: Please don't tell me these are crazy people who pay to read your blog, mircea_popescu? :)
mircea_popescu: then do ;;calc 235.16906445 * mtgoxlast
mircea_popescu: BigBitz tell him to start a blog. then link him to https://blockchain.info/address/16crkmdoaK6Tq8NP3FVK7Uxq5Dwdicb3c3
gribble: Robin Williams dead 2014 : Actor killed by celebrity death hoax ...: <http://en.mediamass.net/people/robin-williams/deathhoax.html>; Robin Williams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Williams>; Robin Williams - Actor,Comedian - Biography - Facts, Birthday, Life ...: <http://www.biography.com/people/robin-williams-9532797>
BigBitz: He'll say either "dumb fuck" or "fucking faggot" or something as witty.
mircea_popescu: put them on sale for ~1 pound each
mircea_popescu: i knew this chick, her thing was, she'd go through the trains at the end collect discarded books
nubbins`: people "checking" their facebook
nubbins`: people read books on the fuckin metro
nubbins`: oh, that's another thing i noticed about yoorup
mircea_popescu: for instance, suppose you commute or are one of the 100mn+ people that have to keep themselves quietly occupied for 1-2 hours a day.
nubbins`: i read over 100 books by probably the second grade
mircea_popescu: imo it's really a sort of lifetime deal, i have nfi who has the mettle to actually read 10k articles.
nubbins`: so, thanks for the content, i guess
mircea_popescu: in some parts of the world.
mircea_popescu: on the positive side, i'm getting about one.x trilema credit orders a day by now.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> nubbins` so how is this better than you know, cooking some meat and boiling some pasta ? << This is what marketing does, convincing people to save time at the store by buying the box and some meat instead off... food
nubbins`: it doesn't even come with the meat
nubbins`: that's not the same thing at fucking all
mircea_popescu: they accept coinbase or w/e it is
mircea_popescu: no, they don't.
nubbins`: but they accept btc
mircea_popescu: what sort of burgeois concilliatory anti-pseudo-scientific nonsense is this! out of wikipedia, the red flanel of the regime!
mircea_popescu: omfg look at that heresy! wikipedia lists sun radiative output as a causative factor in the first ice age (the one post oxigenation).
mircea_popescu: what in the huronic demonology is a "hamburger helper"
mircea_popescu: this is easily explained through this mathematical model.
nubbins`: overall, not a bad start to the week
godovo: it is sort of depressing reading the log/blog and understanding how miserable you are
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu: "any taxpayer may prevail themselves of equal standards in any proceedings in this circuit".
mircea_popescu: chetty judge should make an order creating adverse precedent for the irs.
nubbins`: ah, that explains the bad taste
mircea_popescu: anyway, you mash them into the eye, the lacrimal glands wash them into the nose drain, from whece they drip straight into your duodenum
assbot: Judicial Watch Statement on Declarations by IRS Officials in the IRS Missing Emails Case | Judicial Watch
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: wow, in the coldest part of the last ice age, earth's average temperature was only 4.5C below the 20th century norm << that's such bs.